You'll have had your tea then.
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OK - if I take your point, I think that the Liverpool Waters project would look a lot better, and much less obtrusive on the skyline if it was built to the medium rise, medium density option in your sketch.
You could almost say the the need for high tower blocks is to have architectural statements (art for art's sake) and not for more people on a given area of land...:rolleyes:
Like modern art, you either like it or hate it....:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
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I did do a check on this picture - http://www.flickr.com/photos/40936407@N07/6982382355/
I presume it's the one you are talking about.
The terrace block touching the NW corner of the green area has about 40 dwelling units and few more on the North end. It alone would take up much more than half of the "blocks" area. Since the towers are about 54 flats each, the blocks are more dense. At the redevelopment (gentrification) level they can even be 108 flats per block, far exceeding the terrace house block density.
(There's none so blind as...)
Please be polite and don't confuse me with Chase - I have stayed polite...:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
What about St Georges heights, Everton. Wasn't there plenty of green space around there ??
The tower blocks on Menlove ave - not in a park, but are in tree lined surroundings. These flats have always kept well as far as I can tell. I've not been in them, but they have always looked nice in pleasant surroundings.
Don't get confused. They all have the same density.
And no it's not that subjective. Liverpool and Wirral Waters have a lot higher density than anything we've looked at here. Going high is a way of getting that density without a big 'footprint', If you built the medium coverage (ie., footprint) option, the houses at the bottom would be in a deep dark pit.
As I said earlier the driver for high residential tower blocks in Kirkby and elsewhere was cost more than anything else. If you build 20 floors you have a 1/20th the roof area and 1/20th foundation area (albeit possibly deeper). Given the standard of provision of services and the industrialised construction methods (factory panel systems) the downside on services and structure were minimal and the corresponding savings are huge.
That would be very attractive to any council who couldn't get the money from government to build anything else (and a big fat infrastructure bill to pay)
Sounds great but the Ronan Point gas explosion pointed out that workmanship on site needs to be as good as in the factory. And it all came tumbling down.....
Seems to me the real issue for high rise tower blocks was lack of 'ownership' or feeling of belonging (so that the place was looked after on a daily basis) and the cost of the war on vandalism depleting the maintenance budget.
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I did have a quick look at that. Did you take into account that the houses can be in flats? It would obviously be out of whack to compare 3 bed houses with 1 or 2 bed flats.
Yes Peter, thank you. I hope you had a good repast. I'm hoping to catch the Chelsea match at 7.45 on ITV, but don't think I'm running away, I would like your thoughts on post 131.
I'm sure it fits into your thread entitled Housing Mistakes. I do apologize for rising to the bait over "the layers of the onion" holdings. I'm easily led, that's why I'm still on the tag. (Scouse humour, honestly)
Regards,
Chas:PDT11
What are you watching Chelsea for???
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And as I said, the expansion of the cities into the suburbs was neither as a result of land shortage nor was it that that drove up house prices.
And renting is not slavery by any other name. There are many across Europe who enjoy larger and rented homes. Where the alternative is low disposable income and effective slavery to a bank.
You may have deluded yourself that you benefited from ownership. Whereas in fact you didn’t own anything. You may have had a succession of property all if which were actually owned by a bank who charged you for the privilege of living there - life’s a mortgage (or procession of mortgages), then you die. You want to be more careful what you pick up in the school corridor.
And your charming little vignette of social and class envy has little to do with the economics of the housing standards on Cantril Farm or on the size of the dwellings. Rather, the fact that wholesale creation of new communities on ‘virgin’ land is inherently expensive is more relevant.
It is not merely the cost of building a house, it is the cost of everything that comes with it (roads, sewers, services, drainage etc). The landed gentry did not benefit from that, they simply sold land. For them the end of the story.
[As an aside, it’s interesting that you can reap the rewards of the system and that’s clever and ok but it’s not ok for anyone who’s been doing it for a bit longer than you].
It’s small wonder that so little communal facilities (shops...) were built, particularly assuming there were precious few tenants to put up the money that would allow them to be built.
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Ken Rogers has been very eloquent on the lost tribes as has Terence Davies although maybe rather less sentimental and a bit more realistic. But indeed, we might have done better to stay in Kirkdale and build medium density housing phase by phase but you have to look at the constraints of the time - lack of funds, the massive urgency and the real fear of the outbreak of serious disease - there you go Chas (but I’ve never owned a Golf).
And don't forget, it was tried (staying) and it was a dream to go out to the suburbs. A garden and a house of your own. You needed a letter from God to get in... isn't hindsight wonderful.
But. We should be doing it now.... http://itsliverpoolcityfringe.blogspot.com/
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Surplus? what surplus? - numbers! I've got a Chelsea match that I'm missing.
Actually, my mum said that in 1950 they needed a permit from the council to buy a new house in the suburbs - they were living with my gran in her mortgaged home at the time along with two babies.
Unless you rate the Liverpool Council up with God....:rolleyes: