Thanks, Shy and Taffy!
Chris
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Interestingly the council already have a sign at the junction of Dingle Lane and Aigburth Rd. It says Aigburth 1 1/4 miles !!! that is along Aigburth Rd. Of course the original name for this stretch of Aigburth Rd was Park Rd as in Toxteth Park.
The Aigburth sign on Victoria Rd, Aigburth Vale is one of the few actually sited in the right place. Interestingly the council placed another Aigburth sign on Riverside Drive near to the municipal tip and Jericho Lane. This was almost in the right place but of course it caused a great rumpus as all those delightful people living along Riverside Drive felt they were no longer in "Aigburth" which of course they weren't really in the first place. In the event the council succumbed to political pressure, removed the sign but did not resite it.
Further along Riverside Drive they put a sign which said "Dingle". Again correctly sited near Promenade Gardens L17. This meant that all those people in those expensive L17 Riverside Drive Houses now not only didn't live in Aigburth but dread of dread actually lived in the Dingle. Oh dear they couldn't have that, so the Dingle sign was moved back about 1/2 mile towards the town centre.
So all this leads to an interesting question. The area around Dingle Lane has changed its post code from L8 to L17. Part of it used to be the old Dingle Oil terminal. Does this mean that in the last 20 years, this has now changed from being in the Dingle to being in Aigburth. Reading Jericho's post one can only be drawn to that conclusion. Or are the people living near the Dingle allotments wrong to say they live in Aigburth.
A Dingle of course is a wooded valley which the council kindly filled with household rubbish around 1900. I'm not sure how the whole of the area along Park Rd came to be called the Dingle or indeed the logic of the council's new siting of the Dingle sign at Park St near the old Brunswick Dock. Of course as there still is no other sign all the way along Riverside Drive, the people there still live, according to the council, in the Dingle.
The entrance to AIGBURTH cricket club is indeed in Southwood Road. It used to be possible to access it via Buckland Street but that entrance has been closed for some years. As far as I'm aware, the cricket club in Aigburth Road has always been known as LIVERPOOL cricket club. I'm a member and play tennis there. :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
It's only recently that ANY signs for the Dingle have been seen at all. You're right to say that the area around what used to be the old oil terminal is now Liverpool 17. Personally, I think this is a con. It should be part of L8 but for some reason people spending 300k on a house don't want a L8 postcode. How nouveau riche is that?! The residents petitioned to have the Dingle sign taken down when it was erected. However, for the sake of consistency, I'm happy for anyone living in L17 to say that they live in Aigburth. With the forthcoming development of the festival site, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that whole area becomes officially known as St Michaels-in-the-Hamlet. Sounds better than Aigburth to me :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
Thanks, Jericho. I found this interesting history of Liverpool Cricket Club which shows that after its foundation in 1807 the club played in various locations in the Liverpool area before settling at the Aigburth Road and Riversdale Road location:
http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolcricketclub/
Chris
I'd agree with that. The area is after all called St Michael's on all Liverpool OS maps and the boundary for St Michael in the Hamlet, Toxteth Park, Church runs all the way along Riverside Drive to the now culverted River Jordan in Otterspool Park. This stream was of course the official Toxteth boundary. St Anne's Church Aigburth parish being on the other side of the River Jordan.
I should perhaps declare an interest in this curiosity about why the Lark Lane and St Michael's area became called Aigburth. Our family lived at 32 Parkfield Rd, Sefton Park in the late 19th C. Census information shows this correctly to be in Toxteth Park. It was never said to be in Aigburth at that time. Nowadays of course that address is the local abortion clinic !!!
That Dingle sign above (near Herculaneum Dock), was one of the new signs that was in the CORRECT place. It disappeared before I could take a pic. It makes me chuckle that a lot of the disputes revolve around the name Toxteth.
Postcodes are just a moneymaker for the Post Office and the developers of new estates (they can add £1,000s to the price of each new house). They can change whenever a developer wants to buy a 'better' Postcode.
There was a section of nearby Sefton Street that went the other way as it changed from L3 to L8, about 10-15 years ago
So far as I know, the area around Dingle Point/Promenade Gardens/start of Riverside Drive has never had any history with Aigburth...but it certainly has had with Dingle.
Doubtless the Garden Festival Hall site will be given a L17 postcode...but it's Dingle really.
I feel uncomfortable with the 'apartheid' that goes on in the L17/L8 interface area in the Dingle. For example, it used to be possible to drive from Buckland Street into Dingle Vale. The road is now blocked just south of Shorefields comp (at the border of L8/L17). In the days of the oil terminal, you turned left at the bottom of Dingle Lane (where Promenade Gardens is now) to enter it. This road is also blocked for cars. Guess what - it's now the L8/L17 border. Personally I think this is outrageous and suggests a city ill at ease with itself.
A few images from Aigburth dated from 21DEC06
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9...1221016xa7.jpg
Sefton Park Houses lining can Aigburth Drive be seen in the background above the lake which water is supplied by the Oskelsbrook which used to run down a valley to which the original settlement of Aigburth is thought to have been placed.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6...1221033vy1.jpg
Aigburth Drive All the properties lining Aigburth Drive are different and were designed to show off how wealthy you really were. Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4...1221041uk4.jpg
Ashfield Road/Aigburth Road The heart of Aigburth is arguably here at the bottom of Ashfield Road where it meets Aigburth Road and Jericho Lane. As previously stated, the original village which may have been Anglo Saxon will have been situated in the vicinity of the Oskelesbrook which would have had a wooded vale. Aigburth itself means "The place of Oaks" so this location is perfectly suitable for it's name.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1...1221044aa0.jpg
Back of Lucan Road/Woodlands Road It was the victorians who really saw the potential in Aigburth. It was ideally placed for commuting into the the city but was also great for those who wanted to live in close reach of the country. Don't forget, the likes of Garston would have been reached down a lane rather than one of John Brodie's avenues from the 1930's and Speke was yet to become an housing estate surrounded by industry and avaition emmisions.
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8...1221097vx6.jpg
Aigburth Road This was one of John Brodie's avenues which he built to improve links around the city. Queens Drive was meant to have a rather impressive terminus on Aigburth Road but this was never realised. Now, these roads which were once deserted, have come into their own as people commute out of the city to the likes of the Estuary Park as well as into the City Centre.
Dear Chris
Mossley Hill per se has no defined boundaries but spreads over a number of townships including Garston within which of course lies Aigburth.
SS Matthew and James Mossley Hill Church parish boundary extends just beyond Aigburth Hall Rd, so yes you are right in one sense to say you lived in Mossley Hill. Of course you also lived in Aigburth !!! See church parish boundary web site link below
http://www.acny.org.uk/parish.php?p=22/31
Best wishes
taffy
Liverpool would be such a dull city without L8. You're right to be proud of it. I hate the way LCC has blocked off lots of roads so that you now have endless cul-de-sacs in some parts of L8. It's just starting to get over having a 35 year long bad hair day. A few years from now it will be back where it belongs - at the heart of the city.
Interesting to note that Wallasey's first two pics (the classiest ones) aren't officially in Aigburth :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
And no one who lives there calls it 'the Georgian Quarter' or even its original name, Canning (although I think there is a Canning website run by a Canning enthusiast). Most locals refer to the street they live in to describe where they come from, e.g. 'I'm from Catherine Street.'
Awww! I can't win ere! I am going by my "Illustrated History of Liverpool's Suburbs" which has a great image of Sefton Park Lake in the Aigburth section taken from just infront of those houses in the second image! It's a cracking book by the way if ever any of you see it on sale!
Anyway; I quite like the back jigger image; I took it because the sun was beating off the backs of those houses; was a great sight!
Anyone got any images of Fulwood Park? I would go tomorrow but I have lost me Bus Pass (Student Pass before people go thinking that I am 80 odd!) Think I know where it is but might have to start buying Weekly's! Oh dear!
A picture of the Ultimate Chippy Steve's!:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
Nice pics, not sure about the blurbs on the 'burbs though.
You're right, most have been converted to flats or hotels. Not many have been demolished.Quote:
Aigburth Drive All the properties lining Aigburth Drive are different and were designed to show off how wealthy you really were. Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished.
This is misleading. This is the heart of Aigburth Vale. If you live further up Aigburth Road, you are more likely to use the shops at Mersey Road, or drive to Tescos in Allerton than come here. There are one or two restaurants in the Vale but most people would go to Lark Lane to eat out, so I'm not sure how accurate it is to call this place the 'heart' when officially it marks the beginning of Aigburth!Quote:
Ashfield Road/Aigburth Road The heart of Aigburth is arguably here at the bottom of Ashfield Road where it meets Aigburth Road and Jericho Lane. As previously stated, the original village which may have been Anglo Saxon will have been situated in the vicinity of the Oskelesbrook which would have had a wooded vale. Aigburth itself means "The place of Oaks" so this location is perfectly suitable for it's name.
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8...1221097vx6.jpg
It is not accurate to say that Aigburth Road depicted in this photograph has ever been deserted! It has always been busy (perhaps more so when Speke and Garston were full of real factories as opposed to people answering phones at the present time). If you are talking about Queens Drive (Mossley Hill), Mossley Hill Drive and Aigburth Drive once being deserted but now used as rat runs for commuters you would be right - but the photograph shown is of Aigburth Road.Quote:
Aigburth Road This was one of John Brodie's avenues which he built to improve links around the city. Queens Drive was meant to have a rather impressive terminus on Aigburth Road but this was never realised. Now, these roads which were once deserted, have come into their own as people commute out of the city to the likes of the Estuary Park as well as into the City Centre.
Apologies if I sound critical. I think it's great that you are doing this but I'm wondering if you may need to be a little bit more careful with how you source your material if you are going to put it on the net. A rule of thumb might be never to make strong claims unless you have robust evidence to back them up. Another way around this might be to talk about 'my impressions of Aigburth'.
Wikipedia is decidedly dodgy when it comes to either Aigburth or Toxteth. As the founder of Wilipedia is quoted as saying, you should not rely on this information to be the absolute truth. The therory is that with many people editing it, the truth will eventually emerge. In the meantime, beware !!
Cannot remember them now really. It was about a year or so ago when I first bought the book. I seem to remember problems with the Allerton and Toxteth information. There may be others which I forget. I originally bought it for the old photos in it but on reading the text I became sufficiently annoyed with the errors that I didn't think the publishers deserved my money, so I took the book back. My money was refunded without question.
Quite honestly I think your pictures speak for themselves and don't really need to be grounded in a version of local history. If you enjoy giving an historical slant, why not cite your source? My favourite writer of local history is Derek Whale. Avoid Wikipedia under pain of death.
Also, it can be useful to take pictures away from the main roads. Often a main road is not typical of the local area. Avoid generalisations. If you think about your own area, it's probably multi-faceted. All areas of Liverpool are like this. So, for example, if writing about L8, don't reduce it to Park Road or Princes Road, get to know Cockburn Street, Windsor Street, Catherine Street, Lodge Lane and Hartington Road, Windermere Terrace, Sunnyside, High Park Street's monumental buildings. If writing about L17, differentiate the Aigburth Road area from St Michaels-in the-Hamlet, correctly position Lark Lane and its interesting sidestreets and capture the changing seasons of Sefton Park, Croxteth and Greenbank Drives. Differentiate between the east and west sides of Aigburth Road north of the Vale, explore Fulwood Park and Otterspool, discover the hidden (and lost) orchards at the bottom of Mersey Road. Get to know the river from this side of the water and the remains of the festival site. If writing about L18 ...