Burbo Bank - the Brick Beach

We spent a lovely Saturday afternoon wandering north from Crosby Coastguard station, an area I've coined the 'Brick Beach'. The coastline here consists entirely of rubble: bricks, plinths, granite pillars, doorsteps etc.
I can only imagine that this area served as a dumping ground after the Blitz, with the secondary purpose of slowing coastal erosion. Can anyone confirm this? I've been unable to find anything concrete (ha!) on the web, and would love to read any first-hand accounts or anecdotes. I'm moved by the sight of so much human endeavour, laid waste by warfare and now pounded by the sea back into sand.

I'm a bit rusty on the geography of that area so i don't know if it's relevant but certainly at Hightown some buildings were just abandoned to coastal erosion and this page mentions builders' rubble being chucked in to try and control the Alt at its mouth.

http://www.seftoncoast.org.uk/articl...r_erosion.html

Thanks geoffrey - that page seems to be talking about the dumping of rubble to backfill the sea wall. Here's a Google Maps linkto the area I'm talking about. On the satellite view you can see the red tinge of the bricks. I haven't walked that far yet, but it does appear to stretch as far as the mouth of the Alt. There's clear evidence of erosion, since the rubble forms a cliff in places. But where did it all come from? I'd love to know if anyone can confirm that this is from the Blitz

It was used to dump materials from buildings being demolished.You can see
large pieces of sandstone which look as if they might be parts of some old churches. I think the idea was to try to stop the erosion by the tide.
The actual Burbo Bank is the large sandbank which appears off shore at low
water where Liverpool`s old fishermen would clean the keels of their boats.
I used to there with my brother and his boat.you would be surprised at the amount of coal and broken crockery you could find. We always brought the coal home for the fire.

I like walking and when i have been around there i always think it looks very untidy to it,s surroundings

The wife and I paid a visit to the Crosby Coastguard Station a few years back and noticed the brick ?infill? on the beach.
All I could think of was the Slum Clearance of the 60s and 70s.

I was born in Celt Street, West Derby Rd. All the streets in that area, as I knew them, have long gone:-
Grey Rock Street.
Red Rock Street.
White Rock Street.
Norwood Grove,
and most of the others from there down to Belmont Road.

Take that and all of the demolition of Scotland Road and you have a good idea of where the bricks on the beach came from.

Norwood Grove also had a Church and Church Hall on the corner with West Derby Road. That may explain the Sandstone bits found on the beach.

At the age of 70 next week the brain cells are going fast so some of the above may be wrong.

Phredd

Hi Phredd,
me and the missus went for a walk along there on Boxing day, and wondered where "fort Crosby" used to be? I think it was demolished in the late 50's,early 60's, but I cant find any info' on this!:snf (41):

From the beginning of the last century, the mouth of the River Alt began to migrate along the foreshore towards Liverpool. This had the effect of lowering the beach, allowing waves to reach and erode the sand dunes, gardens and large houses along Burbo Bank Road. In fact Burbo Bank Road North itself disappeared at one point.
In 1936, the Alt was diverted out to sea by a breakwater between Hightown and Hall Road. Due to the lowered beach, erosion continued and Blitz rubble and Bootle Tinworks waste was tipped to provide a barrier. Later demolition rubble followed, until the construction of a promenade over part of it. The shore level has now risen enough for erosion to become accretion. Planting of Marram grass on the dunes north of Hall Road has stabilised that section.
Fort Crosby was located in the dunes, in line with an acess crossing the railway, half way between Hall Road and Hightown. In the 1960's, Rainfords extracted sand from that area, but I don't know if they demolished it. It consisted of a long concrete structure, buried at it's seaward side, with barracks and other buildings in the hollow behind it.

The pictures are by the late R. K. Gresswell, who studied this coastline.

Ahh yes, fort Crosby

Me and my girlfriend have walked along the beach many times looking for this piece of history. one day we found what was left, and even managed to get into about 3 of the many different bunker type structures by digging a small hole in the sand - once inside they are rather large - but messy :disgust:

that area used to be called the black rocks. { by the locals }
were you see the sea wall by crosby baths down to were the rubble is
was loads of big black stones and anti tank blocks.
there used to be wooden sea defence wall in the area you are talking about
it was used as a rubble dump

as for the fort it was further down towards hightown there was allso couple of pillboxes there
an episode of z cars was filmed there.

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Originally Posted by anti dock

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What dock are you anti?

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Originally Posted by phredd

The wife and I paid a visit to the Crosby Coastguard Station a few years back and noticed the brick ?infill? on the beach.
All I could think of was the Slum Clearance of the 60s and 70s.

I was born in Celt Street, West Derby Rd. All the streets in that area, as I knew them, have long gone:-
Grey Rock Street.
Red Rock Street.
White Rock Street.
Norwood Grove,
and most of the others from there down to Belmont Road.

Take that and all of the demolition of Scotland Road and you have a good idea of where the bricks on the beach came from.

Norwood Grove also had a Church and Church Hall on the corner with West Derby Road. That may explain the Sandstone bits found on the beach.

At the age of 70 next week the brain cells are going fast so some of the above may be wrong.

Phredd

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Hi Phredd, I used to live in the prefabs in Sheil park I remember Celt St and Goth st very well, Alfie Kehoe in Celt st, and Joey Duvall who had the pub at the corner of goth st,Thanks for the memories Alex

[QUOTE=anti dock;167813]that area used to be called the black rocks. { by the locals }
were you see the sea wall by crosby baths down to were the rubble is
was loads of big black stones and anti tank blocks.
there used to be wooden sea defence wall in the area you are talking about
it was used as a rubble dump


I was brought up down there. We lived at right next door to where they built the Baths in 1963 in Warrenhouse Rdand I remember well the filming of Z Cars in about 1965, they shot it it in the car park and my sisters and I were "extras" in that we were filmed playing in the background.
I also remember the fort well as we used to play there as kids and the sandwhining factory just in front of the fort. The fort was blown up in about 1967 although bits of it were around for years after in various states of disrepair and decrepitude along with many bunkers and communications infrastructure. My first cigarette, joint and fishfinger pie were all enjoyed in one of the sunken bunkers that led up to the fort. We moved in 1969 and the tank traps were all removed somwhere about that time.

The bricks and other debris that lined the beach at Hall road came from the houses that fell into the sea after a storm in 1928. Other debris was brought in from the blitz to bolster the sea defences and prevent further errosion of the coast caused by discharge from the River Alt.

Great info angus.

Here's a few pic's of fort Crosby. The bunker entrances have now probably gone,as I've never seen any,when I've been down there?

photo's courtesy of ??

Nice one Ged and wsteve55. It's funny how many people now in their 50's like me have vivid memories of the old Fort. It was a great place to play. During and immediately after the war POW's were housed there. When I visited East Berlin (DDR Communist) in the late 70's I actualy met a guy who'd been incarcerated there. I've some more photos somewhere of the inside of the fort, I must see if I can locate and post them.
Cheers guys

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Originally Posted by angus

Nice one Ged and wsteve55. It's funny how many people now in their 50's like me have vivid memories of the old Fort. It was a great place to play. During and immediately after the war POW's were housed there. When I visited East Berlin (DDR Communist) in the late 70's I actualy met a guy who'd been incarcerated there. I've some more photos somewhere of the inside of the fort, I must see if I can locate and post them.
Cheers guys

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Hi Angus,hope you can find them,as there doesn't seem to be much info' about the fort,and it's activities!(Never knew about the P.O.W.'s !)
Steve.

Nice one Steve. Here is the info and photos which came from Andrew Lee-Hart, Local History Unit of Crosby Library.
Fort Crosby: building began 1906. It had a cinema, church, hospital & football pitch. Prisoners left the camp by 1950. The TA used it until 1954. The base was closed in 1957 and blown up in 1967.Fort Crosby was headquarters for the Lancashire and Cheshire Heavy Brigade of the Artillery, as well as for the Mersey and Barrow defences. After the 1st World War it was used as a training centre; there was a regular Major in command and about 40 gunners to man it. They also looked after the defences of Walney Island off Barrow-in-Furness. The original compliment of guns were two 6inch Mark VII guns, the same as installed at Perch Rock. The Fort was never in action during the 2nd World War but examined shipping coming into the area. However the battery grew to include a well dispersed system of searchlights, barracks & anti-aircraft guns. After the war Fort Crosby was used to house German POW's; it had a cinema which showed German & English films, and proved to be popular with local residents. Every Christmas the German POW's would put on a concert at the Industrial School.**** I cannot download the photos of the interior of the Fort...I'll try again later.

Cheers

Right here they are....I hope !
[ATTACH]Attachment 16366[/ATTACH]

Brill Angus. Just shows what pics are out there waiting to be unearthed.

Great pic's Angus,always wondered what it looked like,in use!:nod:

Thanks Guys. I remember as a 8 year old running up the stairs you can see in the first photo onto the top of the wall and "defending" it agaist my mates attacking from the dunes. It was surprisingly high and potentially very dangerous for small kids to play on, I remember thinking I could jump onto one dunes but thankfully reconsidered. So I'm not surprised they demolished it. You may remember that they built a massive fence around the whole structure which was blown down in places from the blast of the demolition charges, and the two pill boxs immediately in front of the gates were blown onto their sides.
In one of the gun (spotters) emplacements there was a map of the estuary drawn on the wall with various reference points and ranges.
I had a short correspondance some time ago with the guy who looked after the fort in the final years leading to it's decommisioning. He lived in Formby and had offered to give me all the history etc of the Fort in exchange for a few pints. I had intended to check him out next time I came up to Liverpool for a visit but life intervened and I never got round to it and I've lost his details now.
You may also remember that there was a road leading to the fort that was accessed along the Hightown bends.

Thanks for those pics & interesting info Angus . Ron :handclap:

Nothing to do with Fort Crosby, but as a 14 year old "second man" on a dump truck I was engaged in trucking the remains of sandbagged fire watch (ARP) huts off the roofs of a number of buildings around the city. We took it to the destroyed branch of Huskinson Dock, where it joined the rubble removed from bombed sites.

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Originally Posted by Sirob

From the beginning of the last century, the mouth of the River Alt began to migrate along the foreshore towards Liverpool. This had the effect of lowering the beach, allowing waves to reach and erode the sand dunes, gardens and large houses along Burbo Bank Road. In fact Burbo Bank Road North itself disappeared at one point.
In 1936, the Alt was diverted out to sea by a breakwater between Hightown and Hall Road. Due to the lowered beach, erosion continued and Blitz rubble and Bootle Tinworks waste was tipped to provide a barrier. Later demolition rubble followed, until the construction of a promenade over part of it. The shore level has now risen enough for erosion to become accretion. Planting of Marram grass on the dunes north of Hall Road has stabilised that section.
Fort Crosby was located in the dunes, in line with an acess crossing the railway, half way between Hall Road and Hightown. In the 1960's, Rainfords extracted sand from that area, but I don't know if they demolished it. It consisted of a long concrete structure, buried at it's seaward side, with barracks and other buildings in the hollow behind it.

The pictures are by the late R. K. Gresswell, who studied this coastline.

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Great photo`s. I actually remember the last two from my boyhood and have vivid memories of the sea washing around those houses. The last photo though if my memory serves me correctly is of a gun emplacement which was actually on the headland at FRESHFIELD. We used to play in and on it until of course it toppled down the sandhill. I well remember playing around the abandoned and desolate Fort Crosby as a lad too. It was indeed aback the sand dunes in the hightown/Hall road area, which makes me wonder why it was referred to as Fort Crosby ? I do not remember whether it was eventually actually demolished or whether it just gradually disintergrated and became buried in the dunes. I do know however that sand was being taken from the area long before the 60`s. Rainfords wagons
used to load it from the dunes where mechanical shovels were used. The drivers then had to haul it to a railway siding which adjoined Formby Station at that time [by Eccles railway crossing which does still exist]. the drivers themselves then had to transfer the sand themselves by hand into railway wagons just using large hand shovels. They soon all started carrying extra shovels because we as kids would offer to help with the shovelling in return for a ride in the cab to the beach and back again when they were loaded up again.
We often spent all day just shovelling and riding back and forth in the wagons. It was backbreaking work but worth it for the rides. [or so we thought as kids]. Those drivers were all `made up` with us, though of course health and safety would soon put an end to that sort of thing these days. Anyway like I said,that was way before the 60`s, it would have in fact been from around 1942/43 and on, and even then the wisdom of the practise was being questioned, as to why so much sand was being taken from the area when everyone was fully aware that Formby was already below sea level anyway and all that sand was actually our protection.

Regards,
Ken.

Hi my first post and I couldn't help but reply to this one.

As has been rightly stated the Alt mouth used to drain in to the Mersey at this point up until about 1935. The grass you see behind the car park is reclaimed land that houses used to occupy until the where washed away. I am not that old but I used to work for the EA and that river was part of my responsibility.

However I am 44 and have clear memories of large trucks in and out of the tip. Generally old buildings and site clearances from bomb damage was laid there to redirect the mouth of the Alt and to allow the sand dunes to repopulate the area. I used to go there and get silver cross pram wheels to make go carts with. Up until the middle 70s the 'asparagus' and other anti landing paraphernalia where still there from the war. The gun posts and look out where part of my playground.

You've brought back some memories. Thanks

Welcome to Yo,Dune!:nod:

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Originally Posted by tpoo22

We spent a lovely Saturday afternoon wandering north from Crosby Coastguard station, an area I've coined the 'Brick Beach'. The coastline here consists entirely of rubble: bricks, plinths, granite pillars, doorsteps etc.
I can only imagine that this area served as a dumping ground after the Blitz, with the secondary purpose of slowing coastal erosion. Can anyone confirm this? I've been unable to find anything concrete (ha!) on the web, and would love to read any first-hand accounts or anecdotes. I'm moved by the sight of so much human endeavour, laid waste by warfare and now pounded by the sea back into sand.

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You're absolutely correct, Tpoo - the rubble from the blitz on Bootle was dumped on the Sefton coast. Tom Fairclough had an exhibition on this last May in the Met Quarter, I think it was. I found his photographic blog, based on photos of this débris accompanied by the statements of eyewitnesses, an extraordinarily powerful emotional experience. It is still accessible here: http://bootlecollateral.blogspot.com/

P.S. Only just noticed that the Thread goes back to 2008, but am leaving the link as it does confirm the Blitz connection, which was still being debated quite recently, with dumping at several different periods of time and place and for different reasons apparently being confused ; I also think the blog is brilliant and deserves to be seen by as many people as possible...

Only just discovered this forum and already found some fascinating stuff. I thought I'd start by adding my two penn'orth to this thread.

I was brought up down by the shore (never 'the beach'!) in the 60's, and remember that period quite well.

We used to call what the OP describes as the 'brick beach' the 'coast erosion' or often just the 'coastie'. It extended from Mariners Road to the River Alt near Hightown. The grown ups told us that the rubble that formed the coastie was the remains of the big houses along Burbo Bank Road that had collapsed in the big storm of 1928. When I first was aware of it, this formed a kind of makeshift promenade which I think was tarmaced on a stretch going south from Hall Road, but certainly not as far as Mariners Road. This stretch was also protected from the sea by huge caissons of rubble wrapped in chicken wire. The rest of it was (and still is at the Hightown end) just rubble with a rough unmade top.

At the time of the building of the Seaforth Dock and the Marina, the coastie became part of a real promenade with a parabolic storm-resistant concrete facing, as we can see today.

I didn't know that some of the rubble had come from clearances in Liverpool until I read this thread. Certainly we used to wonder that a few tumbled-down houses could have made so much rubble, but I never saw lorries carrying this rubble and can only imagine that this shifting was all finished by the 60's. I do remember the diggers filling the lorries with sand from the dunes along the front between Mariners Road and the gardens.

I also remember Fort Crosby and the dragon's teeth. The first time we explored as far as Fort Crosby as boys, there was a naked man standing on top of one of the blockhouses, cool as you like, with his arms behind his head, just enjoying the sun! This gave us such a fright we ran off and didn't come back for a year or two. But at this time the only buildings were concrete - there was nothing like you can see in Angus's pictures upthread.

On our expeditions we used to get refreshment from the water fountain at the northern junction of Burbo Bank Road and The Serpentine. The grown ups told us that this fountain was built for the benefit of the 'cockle mollies' who lived in the sand dunes that predated the coastie. I have always been fascinated by the idea of these people, but have not been able to dig up anything about them on the internet. Does anyone here have any memories?

Great link and the "Collateral' link /exhibition/ photos are well worth looking at. Very atmospheric and personal

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/175/45...4425d96f_o.jpg


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2198/2...a513cd25_o.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4043/4...1d7501b2_o.jpg

This is the real Burbo Bank,a sandbank in the channel between Crosby and New Brighton,where liverpool fishermen cleaned there keels of their boats, these have been posted before of our kid and I cleaning ours in 1960

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Originally Posted by Doris Mousdale

Great link and the "Collateral' link /exhibition/ photos are well worth looking at. Very atmospheric and personal

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I agree wonderful photography, however I dont see evidence of rubble from Bootle,. Burbo Bank was also known as the 'Erosion' as this part of Blundellsands seafront eroded away with the fierce tides washing away a row of large palatial houses. I have walked this area many times over the years and have never discovered evidence of anything but items of masonary, gate posts ,befitting yo these large houses

.Attachment 24296

There is masonry from Hall road onwards with large chunks of sandstone from old churches used as sea defences.
On the sand bank pottery from Liverpool`s old pottery works can still be found

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Originally Posted by johnny blue

I agree wonderful photography, however I dont see evidence of rubble from Bootle,. Burbo Bank was also known as the 'Erosion' as this part of Blundellsands seafront eroded away with the fierce tides washing away a row of large palatial houses. I have walked this area many times over the years and have never discovered evidence of anything but items of masonary, gate posts ,befitting yo these large houses

.Attachment 24296

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As you walk from Waterloo to Blundellsands, near to the prom',there is a large amount of compressed building rubble which has large pieces of sandstone steps,archways,etc in it. I've always assumed that these were the remains of those houses,but maybe not?

Thanks for the kind comments about the exhibition (which is still up in the Watson building windows, Lewis's because I can't get access at the moment)

The rubble is a mixture of different things including, nearer Hall road, the workings on the last second Mersey Tunnel.

I went back to the Borough Engineer's reports from Sefton council for my sources and bomb damage rubble was dumped along that stretch, Because it's all together I can't guarantee that everything photographed was from Bootle but it's in there somewhere.

Regards,

Tom Fairclough

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Originally Posted by TomF

The rubble is a mixture of different things including, nearer Hall road, the workings on the last second Mersey Tunnel.

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Tom, do you mean that the rubble is the remains of buildings demolished to make way for the new tunnel entranceways or that it is earth from the tunneling itself?

I think it is buildings, the stretch nearest the car park contains a lot more concrete which suggests more modern buildings than the rest of the beach. You can sort of tell that the first 50 yards or so comes from a more modern period (this is backed up by Sefton Council Engineering Dept. Papers) but I couldn't say exactly what is used. I'm not sure there is any tunnelling material though, this would probably be useless for such a task.

Attachment 24300Seaforth Dock coastal wall which stretches round to the left from Waterloo to Seaforth. These huge gigantic rocks are from under the river when building the second Mersey Tunnel. The rubble to build Otterspool promenade came from the building of the first Mersey Tunnel.

Nice one Ian, I wonder if we know each other ? I lived at the very end of Warrenhouse Rd which almost adjoined Mariners Rd prior to the construction of the new baths in 1963 and played all along that strech of coast from 1960 on wards. Do you remember the old coast guards cottages and the adjloining boat house where the guy who cleared the sandhills from thew backs of houses with a WW11 bulldozer lived ?
I spent a wonderful childhood here and also partook of refeshment from the fountain but hadn't heard about the "cockle molies." Our next door neighbour was a woman in her 90's who had lived there for many years and she told me about an old man who had lived in a driftwood shack along the shore for most of his life by beachcombing. I remember having a conversation some years ago with a guy who was writing a book drawn from his own childhood memories from this area of beach during the 1940's which incorporated an old beachcomber like the Fulton Mackay charecter from Local Hero. He was quite ill at the time and so was I, so I lost contact, must see if I can find his details and follow upto find out the basis for the story.
Cheers Ian for an most informative post.
Angus

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Originally Posted by angus

Nice one Ian, I wonder if we know each other ? I lived at the very end of Warrenhouse Rd...

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Don't remember your name, Angus, but I must have known you. I lived in Leopold Road, 2 streets south of Warrenhouse. Each street had its own gang - they were like foreign countries, usually at war!

We moved to one of the new semi-detacheds that were built where the coastguard cottages used to be at the bottom of Mariners Road. I remember Mr Scott's grey digger, too. My mum was friends with his wife.

Like you say, it was a great place to grow up.