Tell me where I shift shape Chas as you continue to further intrigue me with your perceptions of me.
You even claim to have read my books where I cleared laud the old communities and particularly tenements yet decided they were things I did not like. Strange days indeed mama as Mr Lennon once said. :002:
You may have to stay intrigued a while longer. Me and my mates in the bar are having a heated debate about the new Scottish museum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
I say it looks good, Pricey says it's not as good as Liverpool's newest development, feelings are running high. Pricey's face is red with anger but that's nothing new! :mad:
"Calm down", shouts the landlord, " you'll wake up the bairns." Talk settles to the new Thwaites brewery, now that's something we should all be worrying about.
I will reply to the second part of your post after I've checked through my past postings.
Perceptions, well that's how you perceive someone, canny lad.
Cheers,
Chas:noid:
Not worth debating about the towers as they are only here for a lttle while.About 40 years I would say,
It`s called planned obsolescence. Alexandra Tower on Princes dock, has been let for a couple of years now and still there works going on in there judging by barriers and material around.
As the old man said "They are tearing down buildings I helped build"
The Vauxhall community stood firm in the past, I hope that spirit is still alive There will be other options eventually, PEEL is a shady organization. I can imagine the boardroom howling if Merseyside decide to "dance with the devil", quoted from PEEL management.There's a saying " the devil looks after his own". Peel are Manchester based, can we really expect them to look after Merseysiders?Quote:
Originally Posted by gregs dad
Thanks, Gregs dad, for making an important point on which I agree!!!
Whatever happens it will be short term, but, we could be leaving a legacy of more destruction and chaos if the deal goes through.
still PEELing
Chas:D:PDT11
No offense to Mancs, Liverpublians, Evertonians, only PEEL HOLDINGS
Peel are primarily a LAND company. They are no dynamic creator of economic growth for sure. If they sold the land tomorrow another such company would step in their shoes. The hot air proposals, boy haven't wee seen many of those, are to inflate the land values. Then they can negotiate with developers in a position of financial strength. Either selling land, which they will rarely do, or negotiating leases, which is their aim - which is taking in rent.Quote:
Originally Posted by chasevans
The way our laws are Peel will making a killing, no matter what happens. The point is the type of developments that will emerge. The site is a world heritage site and this charter should be respected. The site developed within the charter framework will promote Liverpool far greater than some quick slap-dash Salford or Docklands tat. We have seen enough of that in the South End Docks. Another large tat shed is proposed on Kings/Queens Dock, and some laud this as progress of some sort - I am a loss to see where.
Peel should go by the rules. It is a WORLD HERITAGE SITE. They know the rules. Conform to them and its gets built. That is not difficult to understand. They do not and produce tat plans and ten people run top their defense shouting about jobs. I find it amazing that the naive support a bunch of Land/property sharks who want to bend the rules.
Peel do not have billions to spend. Forget that. They have LAND. Others will develop the plots. They will develop few. They will lease out land, and take rent and in some cases sell plots, making a wedge in the untaxed value of the land they acquired for buttons. This is unearned income.
Peel have had the site a long time. Liverpool got World Heritage Status quite a few years ago now. If Peel were such a wonder company they would have drawn up plans respecting the World Heritage Site and incorporated rapid-transit rail in the pre-credit Crunch era, when money was being poured into Liverpool - plans that respect the World Heritage Site to get the project under way. But Peel did sweet FA. It doesn't matter to them, the land values always rise, so they just sit there gaining all this windfall gain in land value which is untaxed.
Peel have planned the large Wirral Waters as well. Liverpool and Wirral Waters do not have any provision for rapid-transit rail to run into any of these large developments - in a city with a rapid-transit rail network, that is easy to run into these projects. How odd! Anyone who is serious would make provision for rapid-transit transport, which is essential for the success of such projects. The Docklands Light Railways made Docklands in London a success. Without it, it would have failed.
All very odd what Peel are doing - OR NOT DOING. Nevertheless, the land they own is still gaining in value. Wealth created from community activity, unearned income, which they keep untaxed, even though the land is derelict.
Peel promise a lot. What they have promised over the years:
All hot air.
- A freight terminal at the airport
- A post-panamax container terminal
- Wirral Waters
- Liverpool Waters in a World Heritage Site
- Port Salford
- Port Warrington
- The Irish ferry terminal at Langton Dock river wall
- They were rambling about a second cruise liner terminal
- etc,
- etc
Ah Waterways, or is it Marineman from another forum where he is regularly ridiculed over the same nonesense.
So Peel didn't build at the airport then, nor Salford, nor Media city?
Perhaps it's all hot air at the moment because the powers that be won't let them get on with it. Fortunately, Wirral Council are not so backward thinking and have passed the Wirral Waters scheme - I hope LCC wake up too.
WW, I would have expected you to want the docks to be brought back into use or are you only reigning interest in them?
I actually agree with your LVT but your angst should be against the government for not bringing it in - not Peel.
As for oh well something will be built there eventually if Peel don't - anbd pigs might fly - how long has it taken up to now?
There's plenty that's been ripped down within 40 or 50 years of it being built whether it be the tenements, high rise or the rear of the library - biut Peel had nothing to do with them - it's called a life span.
But nice buildings, well constructed, like the Liver Building make it past 100 years with no end in sight...:PDT_Aliboronz_24:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
I can't help feeling on reading some of the comments that if these opponents of change and progress were around approx 300 years ago, Liverpool, would have remained a backwater. Where were the planning committees , Unesco "experts", Preservation crusts then? Instead men of vision;admittedley not all were paragons of virtue, saw an opportunity to create wealth and during that creation helped grow a great port. So why do we have such a hatred for modern entrepreneurs whose ideas conflict with our own.....we don't seem to be creating anything. Instead lets just settle down in our daub and wattle and look at the nice buildings Grandpa and his mates built...... "they can't build like that nowadays you know lad".
For gods sake lets take a leap and a chance, if we succede Yippeeee, if we fail we know we can try and fix it, or should we stagnate and decay like so much around us in the past has withered through lack of vision .
Lets not build towers :PDT11
Boo to Towers.
That's true but they just don't built like that anymore anywhere. The pyramids have lasted quite a bit too ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------
Aye, i'd say if we fail (and that can only mean to fill them) then the site will still look better than a desolate wasteland with dust blowing by. If they fail in that way, only Peel will suffer so maybe it's a win win situation even for the Peel haters.Quote:
Originally Posted by grekko
Howsabout a nice big park,with water features for the docks wasteland we certainlly don`t want any more empty flats.
I think raising the question of why they don't build like that anymore is important. 10 years ago I used to meet up with a friend, Tommy (plasterer by trade). At the time there was renovation work being carried out in the Hope Street area. He was working out of town when he got transferred to the building in question. The engineer in charge of the site had gone ballistic over the low standards of workmanship. Plasterboards and light skimming of walls were all the men had been trained for, speed being the essence for their employer! Tommy was brought back with an apprentice to do the work properly.
Why are tradesmen not being trained to the standards that we once had? It's a throwaway world where money rules everything, I'm afraid.
The pyramids function was to keep out looters, at which they failed. I don't think they could ever be called beautiful.
The Liver buildings, I'm sure most people's view would be beautiful.
:PDT11 Ged.
Best wishes,
Chas:PDT11
Cheers Joe and Chas.
A well planned park maybe could have been an option if LCC owned the land but when the MDHC cashed in on it to Peel for a return, they too will be looking to profit from it.
The Pyramids are a WHS though Chas, you know, the all important UNESCO World Heritage Site and they are beautiful and meaningful to many. When big insurance companies were making an architectural statements such as the Royal Liver, Pearl Assurance etc, no expense was spared for their HQ's. Walker, Picton, William Brown and others were benefactors to the city and money was raised and given - that doesn't happen anymore. The next best thing though, since our councils are skint is that the likes of Grosvenor and Peel look to Liverpool with its unique sites ripe for redevelopment after years of nothing, I mean they're not looking at other cities who would no doubt snap their hands off.
How disappointing it would be to return to the central docks site as a ghost in 2050 to see what is still there now. A stark possibility.
But as far as speed of building goes, the Liver Building was built in a mere 3 years. They weren't slow craftsmen working back then....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by chasevans
The four times higher Empire State Building was completed in 18 months.
How long did the much lower new museum take?
[QUOTE=Ged;355611]That's true but they just don't built like that anymore anywhere. The pyramids have lasted quite a bit too ;)
---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------
Never finished either, all that sand delivered, river changed course and the cement factory couldn't find enough transport for the order..... now if they'd had a decent planning committee who knows what wonderful architecture they might have left for us.
Thanks for your reply, Ged. My views are not clouded by UNESCO WHS or the Liverpool Preservation Society ( in fact I'd never heard of LPS till it was named by yourself). I can't give my opinion on the LPS man until I know a bit more about him.
I didn't need UNESCO to tell me this city is beautiful, it was already a wondrous place to me. Can't say I'm not glad they've intervened in Peel's proposals though.
You've missed the point of my previous post so I'll make it clear.
Tommy the plasterer
The quality of workmanship in most modern buildings in Merseyside is sub standard. As long as workmen can pass their Level X and conform to a timetable the agency gets the job. Slapdash construction with maximum profit the only motivation.
Merseyside deserves better. Merseysiders have had to suffer the town planning and architectural disasters in the past. The new museum and black apartments squat like vultures in the city. If PEEL gets the go ahead there’ll be a new waterfront trio, The Three Disgraces.
I’ll leave out my thoughts on Liverpool One, that battle is fought and lost.
PEEL is the focus of this thread so I’ll say it again.
PEEL are in it for one thing, TO MAKE MONEY. If Merseyside surrenders to Peel Holdings we’ve a lot more to lose than money
The pyramids are tombs from a past civilization. Their very creation is a wonder to all. My cold eyes see only emptied tombs.The contents of the pyramids are far more beautiful to my eyes, telling their stories of the Egyptian empire. Pyramids might be fantastic and enigmatic, but the world has far more beautiful tombs.
Which brings me full circle. Peel’s towering structures and empire building, …………
Affably,
Chas:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
I'm not sure that "quality of workmanship" is to blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by chasevans
If the architect specified cheap drywall (plasterboard in the UK?) instead of a full plaster job with nice details moulded in the corners, then it's a design issue, not a quality issue.
The workmansip may be poor, but even good workmanship on a cheap design still gets you a cheap building...:)
I blame the architects/interior designers.
PS - having owned a house with drywall and a 40's house with lath and plaster, the drywall one is easier to maintain...:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
Show me a 21st century developer who isn't in it for money. Would you plough 5.5 billion of your money into it for nothing?
You say we lost the battle at Liverpool 1 Chas, I say we won. Im sure glad there aren't people on LCC who preferred to see bomb sites at South John st 70 years after the luftwaffe.
I think I agree Al-gizala. The architects deserve a lot of blame for designing easy build lego constructions to a price. The modern workman's priority being speed. My tale of Tommy the plasterer was real, he was brought in from an out of town job to redo the botched up jobs other workmen had done. He was near retirement age then, what happens when thee are no Tommys to call upon? We should be training our youth to build buildings they can take a pride in. .Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
Cheers,
Chas:PDT11
---------- Post added at 03:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 AM ----------
I'll take the first question as rhetorical. Of course I wouldn't put 5.5 billion into this project. But if I had 5.5 billion I'd look at developing the land to benefit Liverpoool communities and industries, I can't stress enough that while scousers are without work and apartments are built that are out of their reach it will bring trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Liverpool One from all reports is a 2/3 full I'm told. At the moment it wants to appeal to the WAGs culture. No prices shown on anything, if you have to ask the price you can't afford it. Hope Liverpool folk aren't taken in by this trick. Grosvenor can afford to lose money, he just deducts it from his tax.
As can PEEL the enemy of Liverpool. PEEL HOLDINGS must be stopped..
Sorry Ged,
Best Wishes for yourself,
Chas:PDT11
No probs Chas, it's all about opinions :PDT11
I bet the workers of Cammell lairds or the workers at the new Liverpool airport terminal don't see them as liverpool's enemy though. Perhaps the wildlife up at Seaforth might though as they plan a post panamax terminal there too. Some enemies eh. I prefer to think the backwater thinking procrastinators are the real enemy as nothing would get done with them. They buy the paint for the house but never get around to doing it.
Liverpool One from all reports is a 2/3 full I'm told. At the moment it wants to appeal to the WAGs culture. No prices shown on anything, if you have to ask the price you can't afford it. Hope Liverpool folk aren't taken in by this trick. Grosvenor can afford to lose money, he just deducts it from his tax.
As can PEEL the enemy of Liverpool. PEEL HOLDINGS must be stopped..
Sorry Ged,
Best Wishes for yourself,
Chas:PDT11[/QUOTE]
John Lewis? Debenhams? Wags?
1 out of 3 , must try harder.... take 200 lines:
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
see me in my study.:slywink:
What a sweeping statement to say that the whole of L1 only caters for the wives and girlfriends of footballers. I've been the Everton shop, i've bought a cd and dvd out of HMV (lots of initials there lol) Why, i've even been the world hot buffet restaurant a number of times to eat as much as I can for the price that a wag wouldn't buy a handbag for. I even saw pensioners coming out of W..H. Smiths - how ab out that then, I should have got a pic to prove all of this. Ha ha.
John Lewis? Debenhams? Wags?Quote:
Originally Posted by grekko
1 out of 3 , must try harder.... take 200 lines:
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
see me in my study.:slywink:[/QUOTE]
I said wags culture. Do I really have to explain it further. I'd expect Wayne Rooney could explain it to you if you really don't understand it, Grekko.
I've never been to Liverpool One, I'm going on reports from others who I trust, what part of Liverpool One from all reports is a 2/3 full I'm told. is confusing you, Grekko.
I don't know where your study is, sir, can you be more explicit. Just to please a fellow pensioner:
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
COPY AND PASTE THE ABOVE 19 Times.
Show yourself, Grekko.:evil:
I said wags culture. Do I really have to explain it further. I'd expect Wayne Rooney could explain it to you if you really don't understand it, Grekko.Quote:
Originally Posted by chasevans
I've never been to Liverpool One, I'm going on reports from others who I trust, what part of Liverpool One from all reports is a 2/3 full I'm told. is confusing you, Grekko.
I don't know where your study is, sir, can you be more explicit. Just to please a fellow pensioner:
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
COPY AND PASTE THE ABOVE 19 Times.
Show yourself, Grekko.:evil:[/QUOTE]
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
I must be sure of my facts before making statements.
sorry Sir, can I go home now?
Was Grekko there looking for a new study, I would like to see him? You don't have to get a pic for me, Ged. I just Google for the Liverpool One website and it only confirms my views. They're aiming sales at the wannabe Yuppies/ WAGS. I'll say it again, nothing priced. Draw your own conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Fed up watching this tin of paint dry,
I'm off to the pub,
Chas:slywink:
@chasevans, I know you said you Google for the Liverpool One website and it only confirms your views, so I thought that maybe to help us both determine the quantity of open or empty premises and stores aimed at appealing to Wags and non Wags , I could post this link so you could identify those you mean and especially the ones which don't display prices. I've visited quite a few times with my wife and if anyone is critical of pricing and the display of them,I have found her to be at the head of the queue, yet other than for a few overpriced stores which appear to be the norm nowadays on most high streets,or shopping centres,I can't say I've heard her voicing many criticisms.
http://www.liverpool-one.com/Vicinit...eDirectory.pdf
Where is this thread going??????????????
Ged there is a post office in W H Smiths,they have been collecting their pension as they have overspent
?:handclap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike
Thought you were going the pub?