New Central station: wait another 12 years

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11-29-2008
Kev

New Central station: wait another 12 years

New Central station: wait another 12 years

Nov 29 2008 by Ben Schofield, Liverpool Daily Post

LIVERPOOL?S Central Station could be expanded or rebuilt in 2020 to cope with growing passenger numbers, Network Rail announced yesterday.

But Merseyside?s senior transport councillor has hit out at the plans saying they will be delivered too late.

Network Rail, which owns the stations and tracks, started a 12-week consultation on the future of the city region?s rail infrastructure yesterday.

Its Route Utilisation Strategy (RUS) for Merseyside could see an ?immediate package of investment? to increase Central Station?s capacity in the short term. This would be completed by 2015 at the earliest.

The RUS document also suggests building a new station or underground platform between 2020 and 2025.

The station has only just missed out on ?12m of funding. In October, the Office for Rail Regulation (ORR) turned down a bid application from Merseytravel to overhaul Central Station.

The transport authority asked for the money after branding it ?a tip? that poses safety concerns as passenger numbers continue to increase over the coming years.

Around 60,000 passengers use the station, on Ranelagh Street, every day. It has seen usage grow by more than 50% over the past five years.

Network Rail came under fire for apparently dumping Central Station from its plans.

Merseytravel chair Cllr Mark Dowd last night hit out at the timescale being put forward: ?I will almost be dead by 2015. It?s not acceptable. How can we talk about something in seven years? time, it?s ridiculous.

?Network Rail are doing absolutely nothing except charging us for the stations.

?All we are asking for is Liverpool?s fair share of finance and we?re just not getting it.?

He plans to confront Network Rail at Merseytravel?s rail services committee in January.

A spokesman for Network Rail said: ?We believe that some small-scale work can be done to create enough capacity to accommodate the growth at Central Station, after five years we will need to look at it again and increase capacity further.?

Other plans in the RUS include lengthening peak-time services in Liverpool with the introduction of a new train fleet in 2014.

Daytime services from Chester to Liverpool could increase from every half-hour to every 15 minutes. Trains could also run faster.

Between 2014 and 2019, the Merseyrail network could expand with a new route to Skelmersdale.

Network Rail says it will redraft the RUS after the consultation ends, with firm plans published next spring.

benschofield
11-29-2008
Paddy

Alternative's

I used it last time I was home to get to Cressington it was packed. That was the weekend of the tall ships. The South Liverpool line is very handy. I imagine that the same goe's for north Liverpool, and over the water. They really should look after these service's
11-30-2008
Max

I like the Northern line when I've used It to get to Hall Road In Crosby from St Michael's. You really see how much of an eye sore some of Bootle Is though and how better It gets the more north you go.

Hate the Wirral line though, takes over half an hour to West Kirby and theres no train to the south western areas of the Wirral beyond West Kirby. There Is trains from Bidston to Heswall and some of the south western Wirral areas and such but thats for to go to Wales and you'd have to get off and get another train from Bidston for that.

Went to Thurstaston earlier and had to cycle for a while from West Kirby to get to It.
12-01-2008
metaltecnicas

Francis Morton & Co. Ltd.

First of all please I am sorry for my English...
Please could you tell me how to contact a member of your community his name is Taffy. I think he can help me because few month ago he wrote:

"Frances Morton and Co. Ltd. was of course based in Garston and was a major steel fabrication company. A particular speciality was prefabricated buildings, churches etc which they exported world wide. The business had its roots in Cable St Liverpool in 1766. Unfortunately like most of the original dockside industry in Garston, it is no more."

I am very interested to receive some information about this extraordinary steelwork company. Please could you tell me more about his history. I believe it was founded by two engineers but I couldn't find any information about them. Could you tell me what happened with the Co.? Are they still working with another brand name?
I am from Buenos Aires and here we have a very important iron building from 1910-1915 made by English architect Eustace Lauriston Counder: the Railroad Central Terminal. In those days it has cost ? 2.000.000... and Francis Morton build it, thousand of tons of iron shipped from Liverpool!

I will appreciate very much your help, thank you very much.
12-01-2008
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaltecnicas

First of all please I am sorry for my English...
Please could you tell me how to contact a member of your community his name is Taffy. I think he can help me because few month ago he wrote:

"Frances Morton and Co. Ltd. was of course based in Garston and was a major steel fabrication company. A particular speciality was prefabricated buildings, churches etc which they exported world wide. The business had its roots in Cable St Liverpool in 1766. Unfortunately like most of the original dockside industry in Garston, it is no more."

I am very interested to receive some information about this extraordinary steelwork company. Please could you tell me more about his history. I believe it was founded by two engineers but I couldn't find any information about them. Could you tell me what happened with the Co.? Are they still working with another brand name?
I am from Buenos Aires and here we have a very important iron building from 1910-1915 made by English architect Eustace Lauriston Counder: the Railroad Central Terminal. In those days it has cost ? 2.000.000... and Francis Morton build it, thousand of tons of iron shipped from Liverpool!

I will appreciate very much your help, thank you very much.

On this forum, do a search on "Everton Church", St, Micheal's Church", "St. Jame's Church". These are iron framed churches and amongst the earliest in the world. Also search on "Oriel Chambers", the world's first steel framed, glass curtain walled building in the world. All in Liverpool.

I'm sure Taffy will be along he is a regular.

http://www.livinginargentina.com/fot...los&id=207&n=1

English architect Eustace Lauriston Counder and three collaborators were given the project of constructing a new station with a French style. It was finished in 1914 and the result was one of the biggest stations in the world, as well as the biggest metallic construction of its kind.

It was the largest steel framed building in the world at the time.

The oldest passenger railway in the world is Liverpool to Manchester, and one of the oldest rail tunnels is the long Wapping Tunnel under the city, which is disused and may be reused again. If so, it will be the oldest underground rail section in the world and the oldest used rail tunnel of any type.

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/att...ports_name.jpg
Frances Morton did the steelwork for the Liverpool Overhead Railway - The first elevated electric railway. demolished in 1957.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/ic...D55901C4C5.jpg

Yes, the city pioneered many advances in iron framing and railways and had strong links with Argentina: Vesty, etc.

Best of luck.
12-01-2008
Harry

Typical. If it was in Greater manchester, they'd be bending over backwards to throw money at it.
This economic bias has got to be challenged at the highest levels of Government.
12-01-2008
gottago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max

Hate the Wirral line though, takes over half an hour to West Kirby and theres no train to the south western areas of the Wirral beyond West Kirby. There Is trains from Bidston to Heswall and some of the south western Wirral areas and such but thats for to go to Wales and you'd have to get off and get another train from Bidston for that.

The Borderlands Line is mentioned in the report (the Bidston-Wrexham line as they call it). Unforunately the plans to electrify it all of it have been scrapped as they have proved to be too costly and they would likely never get all the money back. However, Merseyrail are looking at investing at trains that can switch from diesel to electric (so it would switch at Bidston), they're also looking at overhead electric lines. I think the elec/diesel option would definately be the cheapest.

I was talking to someone who runs a website campaigning for improvments to rail in Merseyside and he said that he'd heard that there were plans for the Borderlands Line to terminate at James St platform 2 rather than go round the loop. I like the idea of bringing that platform back into full use but not seeing what would be Liverpool's only direct route to North Wales arrive at Lime St, even if it is the low level station, would be a little odd.

I really hope that they do something with this line. It's especially important for me because they were planning a station at Woodchurch which would be within walking distance for me and would save me loads of money. There's also enough space for a good Park & Ride on some pretty useless fields round the station area!
12-01-2008
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottago

The Borderlands Line is mentioned in the report (the Bidston-Wrexham line as they call it). Unforunately the plans to electrify it all of it have been scrapped as they have proved to be too costly and they would likely never get all the money back. However, Merseyrail are looking at investing at trains that can switch from diesel to electric (so it would switch at Bidston), they're also looking at overhead electric lines. I think the elec/diesel option would definately be the cheapest.

The plan to put in 3rd rail was scrapped. Overhead wires is still on the agenda. Duel pickup trains 3rd-rail and overhead wires is possible on this line. Diesel-3rd rail is out as there is no way they will allow a train with a that amount of fuel in an underground station/tunnel.

If the Welsh want to pay for it then fine. Merseyrail money should be spent on bringing the underground tunnels into use - the priority.

Quote:

I was talking to someone who runs a website campaigning for improvments to rail in Merseyside

Direct him to here:
Circle Line - click here

Quote:

and he said that he'd heard that there were plans for the Borderlands Line to terminate at James St platform 2 rather than go round the loop. I like the idea of bringing that platform back into full use but not seeing what would be Liverpool's only direct route to North Wales arrive at Lime St, even if it is the low level station, would be a little odd.

The idea is to have a through line from Wrexham direct to John Lennon Airport - when the station is eventually built (another priority) - via James St and Central. The Wirral Line loop will not be used. The original old tunnel from James St to Central is used as a shunting tunnel. This will give the through route. Also a through route from Chester too or anywhere from the Wirral.

Merseyrail and Liverpool Central Recommendations - a consultative document. Just ideas - and poor ones too.
The full report is here.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...nsultation.pdf

They are on about ?60 million to put Skelmersdale on Merseyrail. Which will be more of course by the time it is finished. Best use the Skem money and any other money to extend into Burscough, trams, etc, to upgrade the underground sections. The centre first.

It is no use having extensions of Merseyrail around the peripherals and a city centre not worth travelling to. The rail network will not be used to full potential. Investment in underground transport in the centre will act as a catalyst to regenerate the centre making it attractive. Then extensions can take place getting more easy access to the centre.

If the Welsh want to pay 100% for Wrexham to be a part of Merseyrail then fine. All Merseyside money should be directed towards Merseyrail in Liverpool centre. Tackle the core - Liverpool centre's underground and the rest falls into place.
12-01-2008
SteH

when you consider all the extra investment in the city centre and reasons for people to go there it really is a joke that the trains are still running to more or less the same frequencies as they did in the 80s.
12-01-2008
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteH

when you consider all the extra investment in the city centre and reasons for people to go there it really is a joke that the trains are still running to more or less the same frequencies as they did in the 80s.

The underground tunnels need opening up and underground stations opened.
12-01-2008
metaltecnicas

Francis Morton & Co

Dear Waterways, thank you very much for the information and the photos.
I didn't know that it had been the largest steel framed building in the world, but I am not surprised.
If you are from Liverpool maybe this kind of steelworks are usual for you. I mean that it is not amazing to your eyes. But I can say for sure that if you ever come to Buenos Aires and see the Retiro Central Station you certainly will be proud of your steelwork companies. With no mention that everything (every single bolt, screw or nut) was carried by boat 10.000 miles away.

Thank you again.
12-02-2008
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaltecnicas

Dear Waterways, thank you very much for the information and the photos.
I didn't know that it had been the largest steel framed building in the world, but I am not surprised.
If you are from Liverpool maybe this kind of steelworks are usual for you. I mean that it is not amazing to your eyes. But I can say for sure that if you ever come to Buenos Aires and see the Retiro Central Station you certainly will be proud of your steelwork companies. With no mention that everything (every single bolt, screw or nut) was carried by boat 10.000 miles away.

Thank you again.

Pleasure. Some further steel structures:

Below: Goodison Park, home of Everton FC, the world's first purpose built football ground. The stand is steel framed and built in the 1920s. The whole ground is scheduled for demolition and the club move to a new stadium. Everton assisted in introducing the new game of "football" to Argentina.

http://www.freewebs.com/tims92/Evert...20Park%209.jpg

Below: The Liver Buildings (with the two clock towers) was the first large scale ferro concrete steel framed building in the world. The Empire State and Chrysler Buildings in New York were based on its construction.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/...a52bd994_b.jpg

Below: The mother of all modern Buildings, Oriel Chambers. The first steel framed glass curtain walled building built 1864. John Root the architect of the first high buildings in the USA, studied in Liverpool when this was built. Senitel Buildings in Chicago even has the oriel windows too, except it is higher. The elevator has not been invented when Oriel Chambers was built, so only 5 floors high.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/...ebf78465_o.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...d/HPIM0971.jpg

The second was 16 Cook St (1866) my favourite building. The glass clad spiral staircase could be from the 1980s. Both designed by local architect Peter Ellis, who fell into obscurity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16_Cook_Street
http://www.engineering-timelines.com...cookStreet.jpg

The USA, in New York and Chicago, based their early skyscrapers on the designs 30 years later.

Below: Lime St station. There are two arches. Building started in 1833. The station was modified and the roof was completed in l849. It was then the largest iron roof used on any building, and the largest single span, the first time such a construction had been used to cover a railway station.
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/9026/dsc0601ms3.jpg
http://www.glennhowells.co.uk/projec...street_l_1.jpg

Not only that:
1858 The world's first steel ship, the Ma Roberts, built in for Dr. Livingstone's African exploration by the Laird shipyard.

1862 The Jones Quiggin shipyard built the first steel ship to cross the Atlantic, the Banshee. Built for the Confederate states of America as a fast blockade runner.

1920 The world?s first all welded hulled ship, Fullagar, built by the Laird?s shipyard.

Transporting kits of ironwork around the work and assembling on site was common. This bridge is at Victoria Falls Zimbabwe, although built in Middlesborough not Liverpool. This is an impressive bridge for 1905:
http://cache-media.britannica.com.cd...4-5AE9421E.jpg
12-03-2008
Waterways

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max

I like the Northern line when I've used It to get to Hall Road In Crosby from St Michael's. You really see how much of an eye sore some of Bootle Is though and how better It gets the more north you go.

Hate the Wirral line though, takes over half an hour to West Kirby and theres no train to the south western areas of the Wirral beyond West Kirby. There Is trains from Bidston to Heswall and some of the south western Wirral areas and such but thats for to go to Wales and you'd have to get off and get another train from Bidston for that.

Went to Thurstaston earlier and had to cycle for a while from West Kirby to get to It.

The Hooton to West Kirby trackbed is still there and can be re-used if need be. The west of the Wirral being so rural, with a high car ownership, I doubt it will be brought back into commission.

The Wrexham to Bidston line may be electrified and brought into Merseyrail meaning Wrexham to Liverpool city centre and beyond.
12-03-2008
gottago

Whoops, wrong thread!