The murder of Madge Kirby

This is a really tragic one, happening 99 years ago and the killer was never caught. On 6th January 1908 7 year old Madge Kirby was playing with her friend in Farnworth St when a man asked her to go with him for some sweets. She was never seen alive again. Her body was found on 21st August in Great Newton St, having clearly been removed from its hiding place in a nearby derelict property. Within two weeks of being laid to rest, Madge's father died of a broken heart, having lost his wife just 3 months before Madge disappeared. There'smore information on the following websites:-

http://detectiveandrews.tripod.com/madge.html
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/liverpooltragedy.html

Re: your first link. Does anyone even know who Keith Andrews is ? Or anything about his background or what his 'credentials' are ? Is that the piece where he claims that he'll "leave no stone unturned until he catches the killer of Madge Kirby" ? IIRC, there's a Wiki page about him (self-penned ?) which is unfathomable bilge.

The Kirby case is beyond terrible.

AP.

Hi Steve and AP

First, Steve, thanks for sharing information on this tragic crime with us. Such murders of young children are always sad and unfortunately not confined to that era but still happen today as the Soham case demonstrated.

AP, Keith Andrews is the Merseyside criminologist who is working with Tom Slemen on such matters as the mass grave in Old Swan and the candidacy of Colonel Claude Reignier Conder as Jack the Ripper. I know nothing more about him except what I have read in connection with Mr Slemen's involvement in those cases.

Chris

Yes, thanks for the thread and the links SteH. Hadn't heard of this one, very tragic and as in the Jamie Bulger case, it seems there were people who had seen what was going on and did nothing.

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

AP, Keith Andrews is the Merseyside criminologist who is working with Tom Slemen on such matters as the mass grave in Old Swan and the candidacy of Colonel Claude Reignier Conder as Jack the Ripper.

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You know as much as I do about him then. I just looked up his Wiki article and it's even worse than last time I peeked at it. One thing stood out though. An utterly bizarre last paragraph: "He is currently writing a feature on a crime historian's past, and an in-depth article on a failed one-book 'pulp crime writer' who writes nothing but anonymous emails to famous people. Keith is also working with a television screenwriter on a script about the Cameo Murders, based on the landmark book by Barry Shortall." WTF ?

And I see Slemmo's Wiki entry is currently being considered for complete deletion.

Long live Laurel and Hardy I say...

AP.

Hello AP

If you pull up the "History" for the page for Keith Andrews you get some interesting information posted by people who have questioned what is currently showing. For example, one recent comment, "Warning. This article reads rather like the plug for a book. Jonathan Goodman and others are hardly armchair criminologists. This is a highly coloured piece and should be re-edited. The theory on the Wallace case is interesting but not definitive."

Chris

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

Hello AP

If you pull up the "History" for this page you get some interesting information posted by people who have questioned what is currently showing. For example, one comment, "Warning. This article reads rather like the plug for a book. Jonathan Goodman and others are hardly armchair criminologists. This is a highly coloured piece and should be re-edited. The theory on the Wallace case is interesting but not definitive."

Chris

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Very interesting. Personally, I'd rather that page was left as it was as it speaks volumes.

AP.

A very sad murder case this one.
Only heard of it recently.

Just bumping this one up to the top as it happened 100 years ago yesterday. Wonder if Keith Andrews has many more stones to unturn to find the killer, as the link claims he is determined to do.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SteH

Just bumping this one up to the top as it happened 100 years ago yesterday. Wonder if Keith Andrews has many more stones to unturn to find the killer, as the link claims he is determined to do.:rolleyes:

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In this weeks Tom Slemen column in the Merseymart he says Keith Andrews has now tracked down the culprit and will present his findings in the 'near future'. hmmm

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Originally Posted by SteH

In this weeks Tom Slemen column in the Merseymart he says Keith Andrews has now tracked down the culprit and will present his findings in the 'near future'. hmmm

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I think he also wrote that on his forum months ago. They'll have picked a name off a list somewhere and concocted a web of twisted half-lies to go with it. And just out of reach of independant verifiability if past efforts are anything to go by. Expect words like "mysterious", "dark", "unexplained" and "nightmarish" to appear in their usual frequency. Oops, I've just forced him to do a complete rewrite ... now where's that thesaurus, eh ?

AP, what is it with u and tom sleman?
do i detect a hint of jelousy

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Originally Posted by kellyEvans

AP, what is it with u and tom sleman?
do i detect a hint of jelousy

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What an odd pair of questions to ask when you've only been registered on the site for a few hours :) Must I answer ? In which case, "Nothing" and "No". I'd actually like to see him come on here (in plain sight) and join in with all these little debates which mention him. I do doubt he'd be keen though as he wouldn't be able to delete any difficult or awkward questions as he does on hs own forum. I don't blame the fella, if I were him I'd hide there too.

i told tom what you said and he said your the coward hiding behind a screen name.he said you know his name but u wont give yours.He also told me stuff about you wich explains why you hate him.

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Originally Posted by kellyEvans

i told tom what you said and he said your the coward hiding behind a screen name.he said you know his name but u wont give yours.He also told me stuff about you wich explains why you hate him.

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I "hate him" ??? Good gracious, that's way strong and very wide off the mark I'm afraid. It seems that you (and he) have a complete misunderstanding of the situation, if there even is a 'situation' (which there isn't). I post on a very wide range of topics on here, it just seems that every other time I come on I see a TS-related thread has got bumped up for one reason or another and I have an opinion just like everybody else around here and am free to post what I want until told otherwise.

Give the old fella my regards won't you.

AP.

P.S. I'm sorry, did I not bite your bait for long enough ? :)

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

Hi Steve and AP

First, Steve, thanks for sharing information on this tragic crime with us. Such murders of young children are always sad and unfortunately not confined to that era but still happen today as the Soham case demonstrated.

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I have a pretty little girl who was six last month and have never let her out of my sight when with her. I instruct her not to talk to strange people. However a charmer with sweeties and dollies can easily temp a young girl away.

Hi,

I'm a relative of Madge Kirby, I always knew that there was a murder on my Grandad's side of the family, but I've only just seen the newspaper articles for the first time. Madge was my maternal Grandfathers' Mothers cousin ....

Is there any new research on this case or does anybody know anything other than the two articles that are on the web? I've contacted the Merseyside Police and even after all this time, they won't divulge anything.

Thanks,
MissD

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Originally Posted by MissD

Hi,

I'm a relative of Madge Kirby, I always knew that there was a murder on my Grandad's side of the family, but I've only just seen the newspaper articles for the first time. Madge was my maternal Grandfathers' Mothers cousin ....

Is there any new research on this case or does anybody know anything other than the two articles that are on the web? I've contacted the Merseyside Police and even after all this time, they won't divulge anything.

Thanks,
MissD

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Hello MissD

Interesting to know you are a distant relative of the murdered girl, Madge Kirby.

Because this tragic murder took place one hundred years ago this past January, it would appear unlikely that the crime could be solved at this late date unless some startling new evidence comes to light. In regard to the reply you got from the Merseyside Police, I should think that what you received was the routine reply that they give in regard to all old cases.

If you did not know it, Madge is buried in Ford Roman Catholic Cemetery. There is a page on her at Find-a-Grave.

Best regards

Chris

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

Hello MissD

Interesting to know you are a distant relative of the murdered girl, Madge Kirby.

Because this tragic murder took place one hundred years ago this past January, it would appear unlikely that the crime could be solved at this late date unless some startling new evidence comes to light. In regard to the reply you got from the Merseyside Police, I should think that what you received was the routine reply that they give in regard to all old cases.

If you did not know it, Madge is buried in Ford Roman Catholic Cemetery. There is a page on her at Find-a-Grave.

Best regards

Chris

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Hi Chris,

Nice to hear back from you, thanks for that. Next time I'm up in liverpool, I'll visit the Cemetery. The newspaper articles have been invaluable in my fitting together a family tree. I have been able to trace a descendent of Madge's Mother too.

Best wishes,
MissD

The lady who runs Old Mersey Times is a good friend of mine, she passed this story onto Slemen in the hope he could help find more info about it. he just took it and made out he had done all the research. it took a word from me to get Tom to mention where he had come across the story.

I was a bit miffed as she does at great job at Old Mersey Times, bringing many forgotten stories back to life.

the Madge Kirby case is one of the saddest stories i have heard.

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Originally Posted by Spike

The lady who runs Old Mersey Times is a good friend of mine, she passed this story onto Slemen in the hope he could help find more info about it. he just took it and made out he had done all the research. it took a word from me to get Tom to mention where he had come across the story.

I was a bit miffed as she does at great job at Old Mersey Times, bringing many forgotten stories back to life.

the Madge Kirby case is one of the saddest stories i have heard.

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That's a shame Spike, please would you thank her from me and my family for her research. For me personally, her article has been fantastic in helping me to piece together my Family tree as it has details of the chief mourners at the funeral. I'm related to Madge's Dad through my Maternal Grandfather and I've been able to trace a relative of Madge's Mum too as a direct result of the article. I sent a copy of the Old Mersey Times to my Grandfather also and spoke to him about it this morning, he was very interested to see the piece.

It is indeed a very sad story, I always knew that there was a murder in the family, but to read the details as in the OMT article was a real eye opener.

Thanks,
MissD

I have passed your message on Miss D

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Originally Posted by Spike

I have passed your message on Miss D

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Thanks Spike :)

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Originally Posted by MissD

That's a shame Spike, please would you thank her from me and my family for her research. For me personally, her article has been fantastic in helping me to piece together my Family tree as it has details of the chief mourners at the funeral. I'm related to Madge's Dad through my Maternal Grandfather and I've been able to trace a relative of Madge's Mum too as a direct result of the article. I sent a copy of the Old Mersey Times to my Grandfather also and spoke to him about it this morning, he was very interested to see the piece.

It is indeed a very sad story, I always knew that there was a murder in the family, but to read the details as in the OMT article was a real eye opener.

Thanks,
MissD

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Sounds to me that Slemen needs a personality transplant. I wonder if he realises how unpopular he is with the people of Merseyside. Doesn't seem to be a very nice person at all.

Yet the gullible women just keep on buying his haunted liverpool books :rolleyes:

My daughter got one of them from a friend actually and was reading it on the plane to our hols the other month, for something to do to pass the time. She's say 'look at this dad - how phoney or what' - then we'd read a bit and laugh out loud. The lady sitting on the third seat in the row noticed the book we were reading and got one of hers out and said 'Oh good, I see you read these too, they're good aren't they' - to which I replied 'you're joking aren't you, were laughing at them'. We did have a good discussion though as to the merits of some of the stories.

All a matter of opinion.

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Originally Posted by underworld

Sounds to me that Slemen needs a personality transplant. I wonder if he realises how unpopular he is with the people of Merseyside. Doesn't seem to be a very nice person at all.

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He isn't unpopular. Infact Debz (Mrs Z) knows Tom pretty well and she always say's "he's a nice man".
It's a matter of opinion. His books are a load of tosh if you ask me.:PDT11

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Originally Posted by MissD

That's a shame Spike, please would you thank her from me and my family for her research. For me personally, her article has been fantastic in helping me to piece together my Family tree as it has details of the chief mourners at the funeral. I'm related to Madge's Dad through my Maternal Grandfather and I've been able to trace a relative of Madge's Mum too as a direct result of the article. I sent a copy of the Old Mersey Times to my Grandfather also and spoke to him about it this morning, he was very interested to see the piece.

It is indeed a very sad story, I always knew that there was a murder in the family, but to read the details as in the OMT article was a real eye opener.

Thanks,
MissD

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Hi MissD,

Not sure if you're still around, but if so, do you know what happened to David Kirby's sons (was it George and David?) and his other daughter?
This case has always struck a chord with me (I live in the area), it is the saddest of stories and should never be forgotten.

Best,

S.

Another Liverpool murder bump.

What have you done with your site SteH. Are you upgrading it or something as it was fab?