Titanic Memorial aka Marine Engine Room Men Memorial, Pier Head

Hi Chris,are you stopping at hotel nest to the "sailors" church. Fabulous views if you get the right room . That Titanic memorial, I was taken to see that when I was but a wee boy. my great grandddad Maher had been a White Star greaser and my dad was proud of his heritage. Great granddad Maher had lost a few close friends in that sinking and counted himself lucky that he was still away when they were recruiting for her else he could have been among their number. It was in a prominent position in those days, maybe when all the work is finished it will be prominent once more. Anyway, I hope your time here was enjoyable,
BrianD

Hi Chris
It's great to know that you've made it back to the Pool for a few days. Hope you have a great time.

There are usually two reasons given for the name "Titanic" being omitted - firstly, as you say, as it was unveiled in 1916, WW1 was in progress and it was felt that all engine room workers should be honoured. Secondly, luxury liners were still leaving from that area in those days and it was felt that seeing the word "Titanic" just before they boarded would make them distinctly nervous. Even though the cruise liners again leave from that spot, I can't see any reason why they couldn't put a plaque nowadays.

It's an interesting monument as its one of the first to be dedicated to the ordinary working man rather than admirals, generals and royals. Notice how realistic the workers faces are.

Enjoy the rest of your stay - hopefully you will see the QM2 tomorrow.
Julie

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

Hello folks

I am in town for a few days and had a walk early this morning round the Pier Head. Had a look at the Titanic Memorial known officially as the Marine Engine Room Men Memorial, because as Taffy wrote recently, since it's "Also felt to be originally a memorial to the lost Titanic engine room men. " Sir William Goscombe John (1860-1952), sculptor, 1916.

http://www.watcha.pwp.blueyonder.co..../DSCF2116a.JPG

I find it impressive but I am surprised there is no sign in the area around the monument to tell anybody what the memorial is for. True, there is an inscription on the memorial that mentions the engine room men but makes no reference to the Titanic. Also saw what looked like a few chunks out of the memorial on its east and north facing sides which I attribute to shrapnel bomb damage.

It seems to me that a placard would help enlighten visitors as to the history of the memorial, whether it is meant to be for the men of the engine room of the Titanic, or is only known by tradition as being associated with the Titanic. It would appear to me that since the memorial was erected in 1916 it might also be meant to honor engine room men who died aboard ships in World War I. Possibly the plans for the memorial were in the works for a number of years and while the original plans called for it to honor the engine room men of the Titanic who died when the ship sank in April 1912, but by the time it came to unveil the memorial in 1916 it was felt to be more meaningful to make it more generic in honoring engine room men in general since the Great War was by then ongoing???? :002:

See another pic at "Men of the Machine Engine Room" where some of the shrapnel damage I mentioned above can be seen -- more Pier Head/Liverpool pics also through kate&drew's photostream. :handclap:

Chris :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

Hey, the city itself is a positive thing. Great great city, the reason I keep coming back. Delighted to be staying at the Pier Head by the Liver Buildings, and witness once again the excellent sweeping view over the Mersey. The buildings and streets I remember. Was present this evening for a folk concert, country and western gig by a club gathered in Ma Boyle's by St. Nicholas's Church, fantastic free entertainment. The Guinnesses weren't bad either. Cheers, mate.

Chris :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

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Enjoy your visit Chris,....well,it sounds like you already are! :nod:

Hope you're having fun fun fun CG:PDT11
Enjoy your visit and the Guinness:PDT_Piratz_26:

I was reading a book today in Asda, about old Liverpool. The engine room meorial was pictured, and it stated it was the Luisitania Memorial. What exactly is it called.

To me it will always be the memorial to the engine room heroes of all ships ,which was what it was subscribed for

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

Hi Pablo

Thanks for asking for my further impressions of the 'Pool as it is today.

I was walking along ...

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Thanks for your thoughts and it's great to see you had a good time.

I know a lot has been done on the Baltimore waterfront. I'd be interested to hear any comparisons between the two cities which I have suppose have something in common?

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Originally Posted by petromax

Thanks for your thoughts and it's great to see you had a good time.

I know a lot has been done on the Baltimore waterfront. I'd be interested to hear any comparisons between the two cities which I have suppose have something in common?

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It took a very long time for the Baltimore waterfront to be successful - 15 years I think. The TV images of riots, prior to the redevelopment, left a lasting impression in the mind of the average American. What made a difference was the building of a festival market hall - an event venue. People travelled there for events and discovered that they actually enjoyed the place. It then took off.

More than a few parallels with Liverpool - with part of our negative image being down to TV coverage of the riots in 1981. A series of events between then and now (Garden Festival through to the CoC) brought people to the city to see it in a more positive light.

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Originally Posted by petromax

Thanks for your thoughts and it's great to see you had a good time.

I know a lot has been done on the Baltimore waterfront. I'd be interested to hear any comparisons between the two cities which I have suppose have something in common?

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Originally Posted by kevin

It took a very long time for the Baltimore waterfront to be successful - 15 years I think. The TV images of riots, prior to the redevelopment, left a lasting impression in the mind of the average American. What made a difference was the building of a festival market hall - an event venue. People travelled there for events and discovered that they actually enjoyed the place. It then took off.

More than a few parallels with Liverpool - with part of our negative image being down to TV coverage of the riots in 1981. A series of events between then and now (Garden Festival through to the CoC) brought people to the city to see it in a more positive light.

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As kevin says, there are more than a few parallels between the cities. Both have been great seaports, grew up rapidly from virtually nothing, large multi-cultural background, people of both cities have a great sense of humor, row houses of Baltimore much like the terraced houses of the 'Pool.

kevin, I am not sure what you mean by the "festival market hall" -- do you mean the renovation of Lexington Market or perhaps the building of the Convention Center???

A statue is being dedicated tomorrow at Harbor Place to former Mayor William Donald Schaefer under whose administration the food and retail pavilions were built in the 1980's transforming what had been a bleak and rundown waterfront. The argument might be made that Harbor Place is good for tourists and those able to partake of the goodies there but that more needs to be done for the rundown ghetto areas (vide "The Wire").

Chris

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

... (vide "The Wire").

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So you think the benefit has not been very far spread? I think it was one of the first 'waterfront regenerations' -what do you think could have been done better?

Sorry to grill you. I hope you don't mind :)

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Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge

kevin, I am not sure what you mean by the "festival market hall" --

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Is this the Faneuil Hall Marketplace in Boston?

It's a magnificent memorial dedicaced among other to the heroic engineering staff of the RMS Titanic; Joseph Bell, chief engineer, 24 engineers, 6 electrical engineers, two boilermakers, a plumber and his clerk.
No engineer survived. They stayed on their post until the end ensuring that the lights of Titanic keep shining until the very last seconds of sinking.
I admire their bravery. :handclap:

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Originally Posted by Nadine

It's a magnificent memorial dedicaced among other to the heroic engineering staff of the RMS Titanic; Joseph Bell, chief engineer, 24 engineers, 6 electrical engineers, two boilermakers, a plumber and his clerk.
No engineer survived. They stayed on their post until the end ensuring that the lights of Titanic keep shining until the very last seconds of sinking.
I admire their bravery. :handclap:

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I got a lump in my throat reading your post, Nadine. Very moving. My Dad was a navy man and had first hand experience of being torpedoed and going into the water, and never forgot the experience (he was 20 at the time). Your remarks aobut the engineering staff of the Titanic "insuring that the lights of the Titanic kept shining until the last second" encapsulates their great bravery and serves these men well

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Originally Posted by Partsky

I got a lump in my throat reading your post, Nadine. Very moving. My Dad was a navy man and had first hand experience of being torpedoed and going into the water, and never forgot the experience (he was 20 at the time). Your remarks aobut the engineering staff of the Titanic "insuring that the lights of the Titanic kept shining until the last second" encapsulates their great bravery and serves these men well

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My uncle was torpedoed twice. Not once was he sunk. Each time he was in the engine room and each time the torpedo came crashing through and each time never exploded. Lucky man - twice. His brother was not so lucky who was sunk by a U-Boat 500 miles from Cape Race and not seen again.

Mr Wilcott down the street had the same experience but once. They sailed back to Liverpool with an unexploded torpedo in the side of the ship. They would smack its nose with hammers all the way home. :)

I think the original idea was to dedicate the memorial to the Titanic men, but WW1 came along and it was to all engine room men.