Please Help with my Family Mystery

Hi to all
I became a member a few days ago and I have now decided to post onto this page. Below is what I have already found out about my Jenkins lot - and it does go on a bit, but hope someone out there can help.

I was always told by my father, he died in 1884, that the family were from the Everton area of Liverpool.

My paternal grandfather James Jenkins was married in 1902 in Liverpool to Charlotte Ellen Dodd, his age on his marriage certificate says 22 - which would make his birth year c.1880. His father is also shown as James and both of their occupations are down as carters.
On the 1911 Census James and Charlotte, along with 3 of his children are shown living in Howe Street, Liverpool. His age is 31, born Liverpool, this also means his birth year is c.1880.
James died in 1937, age shown as 59 - this now makes his birth year as c.1878.
All references to James and his children on their bmd’s relate to him being called James.
I sent for the only 2 birth certs for 1878/1882 for a James Jenkins, one has come back with the parents James and Sara Ann (nee Messenger), but their son married Annie Reynolds, and the James belonging to my grandfather married Elsie Archer - so not the correct family.
The 2nd one came back with father Thomas and mother Margaret, so probably not him.
My problem is he married in 1902, on the 1911 Census and died in 1937 but can I find his birth - no. I also do not know if he had any siblings that I could use to track him down by.
I also found on the Census records for 1881 in Hornby Street,1891 inTeulon Street and 1901 in either Ashfield Cottages or Jersey Street, Everton two James Jenkins families all having the mother called Elizabeth. I have since discovered that the Teulon Street and Ashfield Cottages families the mother’s maiden name was (Carrol), the one in Jersey Street I do not have any maiden name for. There are no, or I cannot find any marriages for a James and Elizabeth for these two families.

Can anyone help or suggest were to go from here
Thanks
Alex

One reason for the lack of records maybe passenger lists?

There a few here...

http://distantcousin.com/SurnameReso...urname=JENKINS

Hi Alex,
There is a marriage for James Jenkins snr to Elizabeth Hutchings Dec 1877 West Derby 8b 638
I had a look on the census,s and found 2 James snr and 2 James juniors all carters LOL
Regards
Dot

I don't think they ever left Liverpool
Alex

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Hi Dot
The following is what I have made a written in my book I am doing for the grandchildren with regards to the marriage you mentioned:

Me thinking alound:
I DON'T THINK THIS IS MY ANCESTRY

December 1877 James Jenkins age 20, bachelor, occupation Mason of 49 Rosalind Street, father Joseph Jenkins, Mason, married Elizabeth Hutchings age 18, spinster of 49 Rosalind Street, father William Hutchings, Labourer. They were married after Banns and witnessed by John and Caroline Cantelin. The marriage took place at St Paul, Kirkdale, Liverpool, Lancashire, UK - but they emigrated to USA and were both born in Cornwall.

Could it be possible that James was the son of James b.1857 and Eliz Hutchings b.1859 m. 1877 in Liverpool and they left him when they emigrated to America - James in 1886 and Eliz in 1887!!!!! Only first child being shown on Wayne Stauffer’s tree - Alice Maud was born in Cornwall 1880 - There does seem to be a gap between their Marriage, and first born which in those days was unusual - plus why marry in Liverpool ??

With regards to the other James snr's and their sons James - it does seem very strange that two families living in Liverpool, both married to someone called Elizabeth, both these families having children with the same names (different Addresses), then one has a girl called Margaret and the other a girl named Mary J - but there are no marriages that I can find for either of these families.
Regards
Alex

Hi Alex,
Al the info i have is all Liverpool the only 2 birth certs you had for the approx years the info rules them out, all births had to be registered by law some did,nt register them and some registered got lost or damaged, i,ll put up what i have found regarding both Jame,s and their jobs of carters. DOB,s are not always accurate the enimerators often worked within a 5year + or take my gt/ grandfather between 1871 and 1911 had a difference of 28ys !! correct man but did,nt know when he was born only knew he was born Cornwall before moving to Liverpool.

1871
William Jenkins 1835 Carter b L,Pool
Elizabeth 1834 L,Pool
James 1860 L,Pool
Kew St
the 1881 shoes william with a younger wife and family but have not delved further into that next line.

1881
James 1860 Carter L.Pool
Elizabeth ? Nee Hutching 1861 L,Pool
James 1879 L,Pool
2 House 33 Court Hornby St

1891
James Porter-Carting
Elizabeth
James 1880
Thomas 1884 all born Liverpool
Joseph 1889
53, Teulon St Kirkdale

1901
James 1861 Quay carter
Elizabeth 1862
James 1881 quay carter all born L.Pool
Joseph 1891
Mary J 1893
104 Ashfield St

Have you tried Genes reunited some of the names from these census,s are on site including Elizabeth Hutching
Regards
Dot

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James JENKINS Head M Male 25 Liverpool Carter
Sarah Ann JENKINS Wife M Female 27 Liverpool
Mary JENKINS Dau Female 6 Liverpool Scholar
James JENKINS Son Male 2 Liverpool
Robert JENKINS Son Male 2 m Liverpool
Margt. REYNOLDS Visitor U Female 35 Liverpool Ropemaker (Spinner)

Do any of these names tie in ?
Karen xx

Hi Karen
I do not think this with wife Sarah is correct as my grandad's father is shown as James (a carter) also on his marriage cert.- see below for details of the marriage of James and Sarah which came from the Liverpool History Project site:
25th May 1874
Were married JAMES JENKINS of 18 DUCKINFIELD ST
Son of THOMAS JENKINS
And SARA ANN MESSENGER of 20 DUCKINFIELD ST
Daughter of ROBERT MESSENGER

Witnesses JAMES REYNOLDS of 18 DUCKINFIELD ST
MARY ANN BRADLEY of 20 DUCKINFIELD ST

I went into Liverpool to look at the record for this and against the birth of their son James it says he married Annie Reynolds in 1910 at TP Reg Office - my James married in 1902 and had their last child, in 1919 - so not them.
Alex

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------

Hi Dot
I also found on the Census records for 1881 in Hornby Street,1891 inTeulon Street and 1901 in either Ashfield Cottages or Jersey Street, Everton two James Jenkins families both having a mother called Elizabeth. I have since discovered that the Teulon Street and Ashfield Cottages families the mother’s maiden name was (Carroll), the one in Jersey Street I do not have any maiden name for. There are no, or I cannot find any marriages for a James and Elizabeth for these two families, not finding a marriage for one, not unusual but strange there should be two!!
I have sent for the birth cert of Mary J and one for Margaret who is on the one in Jersey Street to see what the maiden name of the mother is.
My previous reply to you regarding Elizabeth Hutchings I am finding hard to get my head around as why come all the way from Cornwall to marry at a young age (unless she was pregnant) and then go back to Cornwall, have her first child in 1880 in Cornwall. Saying that this James had a trade (Mason) but his father was called Joseph, also a Mason.

---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 AM ----------

For Dot and Karen
this is my Grandad in 1911 - which proves not the one married to Sarah

[LEFT]THIS CENSUS SHOWS 4 CHILDREN BORN ALIVE - 3 LIVING - BUT ONE WAS A STILL BIRTH
1911 James age 31 c.1880 H Dock Labourer
Charlotte Ellen age 31 c.1880 W
John age 8 c.1903 S
Still Born c.1905
Joseph Arthur age 4 c.1907 S
James age1 c.1910 Address:
40 Howe Street, Everton, Liverpool - THIS IS GRANDAD’S FAMILY
The Still born I found in the burial records for Anfield Cem.