Mann Island/ New Liverpool Museum Area

[Kev]

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/feb2006/5/8/0001803E-B836-1402-AC270C02AC1BF824.jpg

PLANS for a dramatic development on Liverpool's Mann Island, close to the city's historic Three Graces, are revealed for the first time today.

The futuristic £112m scheme by locally-based Neptune Developments and nationallyrenowned Countryside Properties has won provisional approval from one of the country's leading architectural watchdog bodies.

It will bring office space, hundreds of luxury apartments, shops and a series of new public squares to the key waterfront site, with waterfront cafes and restaurants.

CABE, the Commission for the Environment and the Built Environment, has given its blessing to the Pier Head scheme, designed to complement the proposed waterfront Museum of Liverpool development.


Reaction to the Mann Island scheme will become clearer later this week when the plans are put on public display at an exhibition.

The developers insist the proposals have been specially designed to preserve the famous views of the city's Three Graces, the Port of Liverpool Building, Cunard Building and the Royal Liver Building with simple, elegant buildings that blend into the skyline.

International architects Broadway Malyan has designed three buildings, encompassing three new public spaces including a covered area.

Their designs have already received the support of English Heritage, Liverpool Vision, the city council-backed urban design panel, and the council's Regeneration Select Committee. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16752603%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=dramatic%2dnew%2dvision%2dfor%2dthe%2dw aterfront-name_page.html)


Any thoughts?

[Howie]

From the pic above and the BBC local news coverage tonight my initial impression is favourable - if the project gets delivered. :doubt:

However looking at Neptune Developments website I can't say I am that impressed with any of the schemes they have been involved with in Liverpool to date.

Developers

Countryside Properties PLC (http://www.countryside-properties.com/)

Neptune Developments Limited (http://www.neptunedevelopments.co.uk/)

Architects

Broadway Malyan (http://www.broadwaymalyan.com/)

:neutral:

[Howie]

Click here (http://videos.icnetwork.co.uk/icliverpool/Mann%20Island%20Anim%20Echo.wmv) to take a virtual tour of the Mann Island proposals.

[Kev]

That is fantastic Howie, cheers :p

[Howie]

See Liverpool Echo readers views on the proposals for the development of Mann Island here (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16763546%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=mann%2disland%2d%2dyour%2dviews-name_page.html).

[Howie]

First view of Mann Island project - for two days only
Mar 3 2006
By Alan Weston Daily Post Staff

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/mar2006/9/0/0005F796-FF81-1407-BD850C02AC1BF824.jpg

MEMBERS of the public will today be given their first chance to view and comment on the £118m plans for the development of Mann Island on the Liverpool waterfront.

A two-day exhibition close to the proposed site will allow people to view a model of the proposed complex, which includes office space, luxury apartments, shops and a series of new public squares, along with waterfront cafés and restaurants.

There is also a walk-through model which provides a virtual tour of the complex.

The exhibition is part of a "pre-planning consultation" for the scheme, ahead of a formal planning application to be made to Liverpool City Council, probably next month.

At a launch last night, civic leaders and others had a glimpse of the exhibition before it opens to the public, and gave the scheme a mostly favourable response.

It will sit alongside the proposed new Museum of Liverpool - which awaits funding - on a site once destined for the abandoned Fourth Grace project.

Cllr Peter Millea, Liverpool's executive member for regeneration and transport, said: "It's got a real 'wow' factor.. It provides a nice contrast and adds to the architecture around it.

"The developers are doing the public a service by making the space available for leisure uses. It could be a once-in-a-lifetime chance and I think people will grow to love it."

Jim Gill, chief executive of Liverpool Vision, said: "Change is always difficult but I think this development will create a wonderful place for Liverpool."

But Wayne Colquhoun, chairman of Liverpool Preservation Trust, said the buildings were like "three trashy tarts next to the elegant Three Graces." He added: "I think it's atrocious and it's going to ruin the second-best view of Liverpool from The Strand.

"We are fighting for the preservation of Liverpool's skyline. That's how serious it is."

The scheme, by locally-based Neptune Developments and national firm Countryside Properties, is designed to complement the proposed waterfront Museum of Liverpool, and to preserve the famous views of the city's Three Graces.

Manchester-based architects Broadway Malyan designed the three buildings, which encompasses three new public spaces including a covered area.

The architect Matt Brook - who studied and is also a tutor at Liverpool John Moores University - was at pains to point out that the new complex was not designed as a "Fourth Grace" but as a standalone development in its own right.

He said it was "understandable" that the public reaction to the complex so far had been largely hostile. "It takes a while for a new idea or contemporary design to grow on the public," said Mr Brook.

"I'm as passionate as anybody else to do the right thing on this site. I feel that I know the city very well, which is the most important thing.

"The key challenge is that it's not a background building. It's strong enough to command the environment and offer something new to the dock area.

"We wanted to improve the connection from the city centre to the waterfront, and to create a sequence of public spaces that would draw people down from the city to the historic waterfront.

"I don't think there's been another scheme that has had such support from bodies such as the Commission for the Built Environment and English Heritage."

If planning approval is given, work on the site could start early next year.

Source: icLiverpool (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16767651%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26page=1%26headline=first%2dview%2dof%2dmann%2disl and%2dproject%2d%2d%2dfor%2dtwo%2ddays%2donly-name_page.html)

[Kev]

There seems to be a good feeling around this development, fingers crossed

[A.D.Williams]

I went to the display today and it's a shame it remained open for only two days. I would have liked to have gone down at least once more.

:(

[Howie]

You still have a chance, Dave.

The futuristic £112 million proposed development on Liverpool’s Mann Island is to be showcased, from March 16, on the city’s stand at MIPIM, the international property fair held annually in Cannes. :p

More (http://www.bymnews.com/new/content/view/25412/82/)...

[Kev]

MORE than 250 people turned up to look at the radical £112m plans to build offices and apartment blocks in the heart of Liverpool's World Heritage site. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16778904%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=250%2dturn%2dup%2dto%2dsee%2d%2dpound%2 d112m%2dmann%2disland%2dplans%2d%2d%2dand%2da%2don e%2dman%2dprotest-name_page.html)

[Ste Birmingham]

kev wrote: Any thoughts?


Awful. Two of the buildings are way too dark and gloomy (remember Foster/Mulberry House?). Just wait until exhaust residue builds up on them and people start pi--ing in the corners; it will be like the 1980s all over again.

Bring back The Cloud.

Link (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16793395%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26page=2%26headline=this%2dis%2darchitect%2dmatt%2 dbrook%2ds%2dvision%2dfor%2dthe%2dpier%2dhead%2d%2 dis%2dit%2dright%2dfor%2dthe%2dwaterfront%2d-name_page.html)

[A.D.Williams]

For those who didn't get to the display all the pictures I took have been added here - The Mann Island project (http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/pierhead/grace/grace.html)

[Kev]

Thanks Dave - I've just had a look through 'em :PDT11

[Kev]

From the pic above and the BBC local news coverage tonight my initial impression is favourable - if the project gets delivered. :doubt:

However looking at Neptune Developments website I can't say I am that impressed with any of the schemes they have been involved with in Liverpool to date.

Developers

Countryside Properties PLC (http://www.countryside-properties.com/)

Neptune Developments Limited (http://www.neptunedevelopments.co.uk/)

Architects

Broadway Malyan (http://www.broadwaymalyan.com/)

:neutral:

Nice pic on Countryside Properties PLC (http://www.countryside-properties.com/)

http://www.countryside-properties.com/admin/files/uploads/LV_Pierhead_Mersey%20House-LowRes_1.jpg

Bye bye Porche garage and that Mersey print thing building

[Kev]

Revealed: Liverpool's historic new waterfront



http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/jul2006/0/6/A4F3CC6F-F899-D347-ECA1AD05FE3AEFD1.jpg




THIS is the first picture of the stunning sight which could greet visitors to Liverpool's historic waterfront.

Plans to build three black granite buildings at Mann Island met with a mixed reaction when the ECHO revealed them earlier this year.

But developers hope the tweaked scheme will win public approval. And they are so confident about it they have now applied for official planning permission.

The £120m scheme could win approval in a matter of weeks, allowing work to start.


If approved, the flats and offices would flank the planned X-shaped Museum of Liverpool Life, next to the Three Graces.

More than 900 jobs would be created at the complex, with 1.25m visitors a year expected.

Some ECHO readers praised the eye-catching design, others said Mann Island should stay untouched following the embarrassing failure of Will Alsop's The Cloud.

But the scheme has now been redesigned by architects.

Changes include moving two of the new blocks three metres east to reveal more of the Cunard, Port of Liverpool and Liver buildings.

More trees will be planted, the public given access to a roof terrace with views over Canning Dock and the Pier Head canal basin blended in with the surrounding area.

Heritage experts have already backed the project, drawn up by Neptune Developments and Countryside Properties.

If the scheme goes ahead, two triangular apartment blocks with almost 380 flats will be built in an L-shape, forming a sheltered enclosure away from the windswept Pier Head.

The third building will contain offices, exhibition space and a cafe.

Shops, bars and restaurants will open up on the ground floor of all three structures. source (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/breakingnews/tm_objectid=17442453%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=revealed%2d%2dliverpool%2ds%2dhistoric% 2dnew%2dwaterfront-name_page.html)...

[Max]

That actually looks good on the island.

[Kev]

That actually looks good on the island.

It does Max, the Porshe garage etc have vacated their premisses and have been empty for some time now. It would be great to see construction going on incl. the new museum!

[Paul D]

In my view I don't think it's anything special in that picture but I think it will work in the flesh,the retail and cafes etc are essential in bringing the area back to life and it has the support of EH so it should fly through the planning stages unhindered,I think it will complement our new museum and breathe much neede life to this sometimes desolate area,I also love the idea of a public roof terrace,we could do with that now in this heatwave couldn't we? let's hope they can be on site by the end of the year.

[petecarr]

It looks nice as a building but that totally ruins the lovely photo ops you get there of the Liverbuildings. When the water is still you get a fantastic reflection which will now be blocked by this new building. I better double check I have the photos I want before they do this :)

http://petemc.net/gallery/images/architecture/small%20CRW_8669.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/78/198071160_fd657c20d6.jpg

Thats going to be ruined imho.

[Kev]

Lovely pics Pete, shame to loose that view.

[Urban]

I love modern architecture and I also love classical architecture, but these buildings are TOTALLY out of place!

It would be nice to have them somewhere else but Mann island is not the right place because that beautiful view will be totally ruined and I can guarantee give it 30 or 40 years and these will be torn down.

I am the first to criticise the council when new schemes have been blocked but this MUST be stopped as it is an act of outright vandalism.

It looks like the Royal Hospital they are ugly.

Don't get me wrong a lot of Modernist architecture is nice, in my view a low rise modern building should be built on that site like the silvery glass building in Newcastle by the Tyne Bridge, perhaps housing a botanical Winter garden?

[Howie]

I kinda like the colour of buildings to blend with their surrroundings like the way the apartments in Commutation Row blend in with St Georges Hall, the museum and art gallery, and the old T&G building etc. so I am really not sure about the black granite - it is going to be such a contrast to the surroundings.

[Urban]

I kinda like the colour of buildings to blend with their surrroundings like the way the apartments in Commutation Row blend in with St Georges Hall, the museum and art gallery, and the old T&G building etc. so I am really not sure about the black granite - it is going to be such a contrast to the surroundings.

It's going to be a contrast alright, perhaps it might look like Tower Hill on the Mersey.

As for Commutation row it's certainly an improvement on the dereliction that was there but it doesn't hold a candle to William Brown Street or St George's Hall and is typicl of the cheapo tat that has gone up in parts of the city centre in the last 10 years.

[Howie]

It's going to be a contrast alright, perhaps it might look like Tower Hill on the Mersey.

As for Commutation row it's certainly an improvement on the dereliction that was there but it doesn't hold a candle to William Brown Street or St George's Hall and is typicl of the cheapo tat that has gone up in parts of the city centre in the last 10 years.
Yes, I agree. I was just using it as an example regarding the colour of the building material.

[Paul D]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/3862/mannisland1es4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/5282/mannisland2rn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Howie]

Pier Head poised
Oct 3 2006
by Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/jul2006/0/6/A4F3CC6F-F899-D347-ECA1AD05FE3AEFD1.jpg

CONTROVERSIAL plans for three black granite buildings on the site of the doomed Fourth Grace look set to go ahead.

Councillors are expected to approve the £120m scheme for Liverpool’s Mann Island at a meeting next week.

The meeting follows more than a year of debate about whether the site should be developed at all.

If approved, the three buildings of flats, offices, shops, bars and restaurants would flank the planned X-shaped New Museum of Liverpool on the city’s waterfront.

But some residents and heritage campaigners are still hoping the scheme, expected to create more than 900 jobs and entice 1.25 million visitors a year, will be turned down.

A council report says: “The development was never intended to mimic or be part of the Three Graces and, to emphasise this fact, the proposed building style and materials are a deliberate contrast.

“The scheme will bring very tangible regeneration benefits to the waterfront and the city as a whole.

“It will help repopulate the riverfront and will introduce increased animation and vibrancy in the form of leisure and cultural activities available for much of the day and evening.

“At present, the area is much underused and at times can feel desolate and isolated.

“The injection of people and appropriate activities will increase its attractiveness as a destination in its own right.”

The scheme, drawn up by developers Neptune and Countryside Properties, has the support of architecture experts at English Heritage and the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment.

Some local groups – including the Victorian Society, Ancient Monuments Society, Liverpool Preservation Trust and Albert Dock residents association – are opposing the plan.

They claim it will cause “serious harm” to the waterfront’s architectural heritage and dominate the skyline.

But Neptune and Countryside Properties say the majority of reaction to their scheme was positive and that they have slightly redesigned it to address some concerns.

If the scheme goes ahead, two triangular apartment blocks with almost 380 flats will be built in an L-shape, forming a sheltered enclosure away from the windswept Pier Head.

The third building will contain offices, exhibition space and a cafe. Shops, bars and restaurants will open up on all three ground floors.

Source: icLiverpool (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpoolecho/news/echonews/tm_objectid=17861926%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26page=1%26headline=pier%2dhead%2dpoised-name_page.html)

[Max]

So their knocking down the Mercedes car show room for this but not that old thing that has the kiosk?

[snappel]

I talked to a guy who works at the Museum of Liverpool Life. He said that the modern extension to the museum is going, the long shed/warehouse at the end of the Canning basin is going, the graving docks and GWR shed will obviously be kept. I'm assuming the old square brick building will stay - or maybe it won't? What is it anyway?

[Howie]

Controversy as building plans set to go ahead
Oct 4 2006
By Sam Lister Daily Post Staff

CONTENTIOUS plans to build three futuristic apartment and office blocks on the city's world heritage site are set to go ahead despite a raft of objections.

Developers want to build two residential buildings with almost 400 flats and one commercial office building at Mann Island, to sit alongside the controversial X-museum.

But heritage campaigners, residents and the Royal Liver Assurance have all objected to the scheme.

And Icomos UK, which advises the organisation in charge of awarding world heritage status, sent planners a d*mning letter stating the buildings' "design and form are in almost violent contrast with the Pier Head buildings".

Planners have recommended councillors grant the ambitious £112m scheme permission when they meet next week.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=controversy-as-building-plans-set-to-go-ahead%26method=full%26objectid=17867193%26siteid=5 0061-name_page.html)...

[Kev]

A FUTURISTIC scheme proposed for land near the Three Graces was deferred by Liverpool council this morning because world heritage officials want to look at the plans during an emergency visit to the city next week.

Campaigners have objected to Unesco’s World Heritage Committee about the application to build three apartment and office blocks, as well as plans for the controversial X-museum building which would sit alongside them.

European officials have now brought forward their visit to assess the impact of both schemes.

If they object, the city would either have to ditch the plans or face losing its world heritage status.

The Mann Island application will now go before the planning committee on October 24.

[Paul D]

I'm not liking that,I'm not a massive fan of all the Mann Island buildings and the development would spoil on of the best vistas in Liverpool but I love the x building and I'd be sad to see that scuppered.

[Kev]

Planning managers are recommending the waterfront scheme, a venture by local

developers Neptune and Countrywise Properties, should be approved.



more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=planners-back-%2D%2D8216%2Dcheese-wedge

s%2D%2D8217%2D-%26method=full%26objectid=17963990%26siteid=50061-name_page.html)....

[Waterways]

Liverpool Preservation Trust
11-13 Holts arcade
India Buildings
Water St
Liverpool L2 0RR

0151 236

1282

[Howie]

Waterfront plan decision put back

A decision has been delayed on plans for the former site of Liverpool's

doomed Fourth Grace project.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42232000/jpg/_42232448_mann_devp203.jpg
The granite-clad

buildings are cut
into different shapes

The £120m waterfront scheme consists of three wedge-shaped buildings on Mann Island, built next to

the controversial X-shaped Museum of Liverpool.

The city's planning committee should have discussed the plans on Tuesday.

But a report on

its suitability, by UNESCO and the International Council on Monuments and Sites, was not received by the council until Monday night.

A council

spokesman said the committee would now hear the application on 7 November.

"It was felt members needed time to consider the report," said a council

spokesman.

'Harm' claim

The city was given World Heritage Status in 2004 with inspectors from UNESCO and the International Council

on Monuments and Sites visiting the city last week to check on future developments.

Opponents claim the buildings, two of which will be residential,

could harm the area's architectural heritage.

The groups opposing the scheme, include the Liverpool Preservation Trust, The Victorian Society and

Albert Dock Residents Association.

Some claim the modern scheme would cause serious harm to the architectural and historic significance of the

Liverpool waterfront.

But supporters say the structures will complement, rather than compete with, the city's waterfront.

The three

granite-clad buildings would house more than 300 apartments in two buildings, as well as offices, shops, bars and restaurants.

'Important

scheme'

Developers Neptune and Countryside Properties said the buildings will frame views of the city's Three Graces - the Port of Liverpool

Building, Cunard Building and the Liver Building.

The plans are backed by English Heritage, Liverpool Vision and the North West Development Agency.



David Wade-Smith, of regeneration agency Liverpool Vision, said the buildings were right for the 21st Century.

"It's such an important

scheme for the city and an important scheme for the waterfront.

"It's also a very high quality piece of modern architecture to compliment the

heritage of the Mersey waterfront.

Mr Wade-Smith said he was confident the development would not affect the city's world heritage status and urged

critics to consider the time they would be built in.

"I'd ask them to look back 100 years when people were objecting so strongly to buildings such

as the Liver Building.

"This building represents the future."

Source: BBC

NEWS | Merseyside (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6079440.stm)

[scouserdave]

Never mind about all the heritage stuff, it simply looks like a pile of shiite.

[Paul D]

I know I'm starting to think like that,i

like the museum though.

[Howie]

Can't say I

like the black granite but there does need to be something done with the area between the Pier Head and the Albert Dock.

[Waterways]

Can't say I like the black granite but there does need to be something done with the area between the Pier Head and

the Albert Dock.

A musem no more than two floors high so as not to block out the Three Graces would be fine - as long as the side view from

Albert Dock is not blocked. Could be super modern too.

[scouserdave]

A musem no more than two floors high so as not to block out

the Three Graces would be fine - as long as the side view from Albert Dock is not blocked. Could be super modern too.
And what in your mind

constitutes as "super modern?"

[Waterways]

And what in your mind constitutes as "super modern?"

Not red brick

[Howie]

'Wedges'

pulled at eleventh hour
Oct 25 2006
By Sam Lister Daily Post

Staff

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/jun2006/4/7/C8CA98E0-06F9-8629-42F8C4C89810DA85.jpg

CONTENTIOUS plans to

build three wedge-shaped apartment blocks near Liverpool's Three Graces were withdrawn just hours before a meeting to decide their fate

yesterday.

Officials in charge of monitoring the World Heritage waterfront handed over their report into the plans late on Monday night, causing

confusion among city planners.

Although the emergency report by architecture experts from Unesco found the scheme was unlikely to affect the city's

heritage title, it recommended the council should be "cautious" about the plans, as well as those for the equally controversial proposed museum.

The

application has now been delayed for two weeks while the council works out the legal

implications.

Story continues (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=%2Dwedges%2D-pulled-at-eleventh-hour%26method=f

ull%26objectid=17987655%26siteid=50061-name_page.html#story_continue)...

[Paul D]

It looks like they'll still be approved in 2 weeks time though.

[scouserdave]

Not red brick
What a dim reply.

[Howie]

What a dim reply.
Could be glazed red brick

- that's quite bright (produced from Bedfordshire clay, of course). :rolleyes:

[scouserdave]

Could be glazed red brick - that's quite bright (produced from Bedfordshire clay, of course).

:rolleyes:
LOL!:unibrow:

[Waterways]

Could be glazed red brick - that's quite bright (produced from Bedfordshire clay, of course).

:rolleyes:

Isn't that the clay used for London yellow brick?

[Howie]

Isn't that the clay used for London

yellow brick?
The clay from the pits there is used to produce bricks in a wide range of colours from pale pink to yellow.

[Max]

Pink! :mad:

[shytalk]

Looks like they used pink bricks in Canal St. Manchester.:037:

[Howie]

To bring this thread back on topic...

Chamber chief backs Mann Island project

ONE of Liverpool's

most influential business leaders is backing development plans for Mann Island as a "key link" in the vision for the transformation of Liverpool's

waterfront.

David Wade-Smith, chairman of Liverpool's Chamber of Commerce and founding member of the Liverpool Vision board, believes that the £113m

mixed-use development, which is due to be considered by Liverpool City Council's planning committee later this month, will complement plans for the new

Museum of Liverpool and the Pier Head canal link as well as providing a major commercial boost for the wider waterfront.

He said: "Neptune and

Countryside's development on Mann Island is an eloquent statement about Liverpool's future ambition and its commercial resurgence. It is also a vital

component in the big picture vision for the city centre."

Mr Wade-Smith believes the restaurants, shops and exhibition venue proposed at Mann Island

will also be good news for existing waterfront businesses.

"The Mann Island development will create a vibrant new leisure and cultural destination

that will link with the Albert Dock, Kings Waterfront and the new Pier Head. We have fabulous architecture and breathtaking views, but we also need a

critical mass of commercial and cultural activity if we are to create a successful destination.

"I believe the Mann Island site is the most important

development site in the North West with a pivotal location at the heart of our waterfront, and also forming a crucial link between the commercial district

around Old Hall Street and the new retail district offered by Grosvenor and Liverpool One."

Neptune managing director Steve Parry said: "We welcome

the support of David Wade-Smith and other business and regeneration leaders who recognise the importance of this key site."

Source:

The Business Week (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/thebusinessweek/regionalnews/tm_headline=chamber-chief-backs-mann-island-project%26method=full%26objectid=17949646%26

siteid=50061-name_page.html)

[Max]

How much of the docks is exactly mann Island?

[Howie]

How much of the docks is exactly mann Island?
It's just that bit between the Port of Liverpool Building and

Canning Dock isn't it?

[Waterways]

It's just that bit between the Port of Liverpool Building and Canning Dock isn't it?

I was actually an island with water

on the Canning Docks side, Georges Docks side and the River/Manchester Dock/Chester Basin side. the other side was the passage from Canning Dock to Georges

Dock, which part of is still there.

[shytalk]

Ta, always wondered why it was called island.:037:

[Waterways]

Ta, always wondered why it was called island.:037:

It was a man made island. Orginianally before Georges

Dock the river was on two sides.

All the docks are built into the river on wooden piles except Stanley Dock, part of Heculaneum Dock and most of

Wapping Dock. With the building of ships, making docks and houses in the cities and towns they ran out of wood. That is why Lairds started to make iron

hulled ships and cast iron churches were being built: Everton and St. Micheals - prefabbed churches were exported via the Cast Iron shore. Canada Dock was

built to import timber from Canada to plug the timber shortage gap. The dock was built away from the rest of the docks in case of fire. Later docks were

built between Canada and Clarence Dock.

[scouserdave]

It was a man

made island. Orginianally before Georges Dock the river was on two sides.

All the docks are built into the river on wooden piles except Stanley Dock,

part of Heculaneum Dock and most of Wapping Dock. With the building of ships, making docks and houses in the cities and towns they ran out of wood. That is

why Lairds started to make iron hulled ships and cast iron churches were being built: Everton and St. Micheals - prefabbed churches were exported via the

Cast Iron shore. Canada Dock was built to import timber from Canada to plug the timber shortage gap. The dock was built away from the rest of the docks in

case of fire. Later docks were built between Canada and Clarence Dock.
Everton had more than one church and there were more than one St Micks. I

think you're referring to St George's Church, Everton, Heyworth Street and St Michael's, Church Road, Aigburth.

By the way, Oriel Chambers was a

combination of cast iron and glass. On its completion, it was described as a "great abortion" and an "agglomeration of plate glass bubbles." Sound

familiar?:unibrow:

[Kev]

A CAR showroom, built in the 1930s, should be listed to prevent it from being

demolished as part of the Mann Island redevelopment, a pressure group said last night.

The influential Twentieth Century Society wants the neoclassical

building saved and brought back to use.

Currently, it will have to be flattened to allow a mixed use development by Neptune and Countryside

Developments, consisting of three wedge-shaped blocks faced with black granite.

The garage was designed to blend with the Mersey Tunnel Ventilation

Tower, designed by celebrated Liverpool architect Herbert Rowse, who was also responsible for India Buildings, Martins Bank Building and the Philharmonic

Hall.

In a plea to Liverpool City Council, society director, Catherine Croft, says: "In order to clear the Mann Island site, a neoclassical former

garage will have to be demolished. This is a good example of a scarce building type that we feel should be listed and ideally retained."

Ms Croft adds

in a report to the planning department that the government's own conservation agency had praised the building.

She said: "We note that the English

Heritage Inspector's report concluded 'The building appears to be well maintained and capable of ongoing beneficial use'."

The planning committee

meets next week to consider whether the go-ahead should be given to the three wedges with planning officers recommending approval.

The Twentieth Century

Society has told the council it wishes to object.

Ms Croft states: "We feel that the proposals would have a major impact on an outstanding group of 20th

century listed buildings.

"Unesco's designation of the site specifically requests the UK to ensure that the setting of the Liverpool maritime

waterfront is not compromised by unsympathetic high rise development adjacent to the site."

The society's North West chairman Aidan Turner-Bishop also

voiced concerns.

Last night he said: "Liverpool's Pier Head site is so precious in an international context that it's very worrying it is being

treated as it is, by the council and developers.

"There needs to be a proper site management plan, preferably independently monitored.

"To approve

any developments which contravene a decision by Unesco would be premature and ill-considered."

City officials insist the Neptune scheme, as well as the

proposedMuseum of Liverpool scheme by National Museums Liverpool, will not compromise or threaten the coveted World Heritage Status.



larryneild@dailypost.co.uk

[Harry]

Its only a matter of time before the 22nd century association in Liverpool want a dog turd listing.
Ridiculous!!!

[Kev]

A £120m plan to transform Mann Island alongside Liverpool’s World Heritage

waterfront was approved by councillors this afternoon.

Despite protests by conservationists the scheme won the go-ahead on the casting vote of the

planning committee chairman Cllr Lady Doreen Jones.

Committee member Peter Allen urged the committee to defer a final decision until a report is produced

in mid-December by a World Heritage Site mission from UNESCO but this suggestion was rejected. The committee was divided 4-4, which brought into play the

casting vote.

Developers Neptune and Countryside Properties now plan to start work on April on three granite-faced buildings that will provide

apartments, offices, leisure facilities and an under-cover wintergarden area.

Neptune managing director Steve Parry said the site opposite the Port of

Liverpool Building at the Pier Head was one of the most important in the North West.

Opponents protested that some of the world-famous views of

Liverpool’s Three Graces will be lost forever as a result of the decision.

The committee was told that the project posed no threat to Liverpool’s status

as a World Heritage Site.

A mission from UNESCO was in Liverpool last month to investigate claims that the coveted status could be at risk from

insensitive development schemes.

TAKE a virtual tour of the Mann Island

proposals here (http://videos.icnetwork.co.uk/icliverpool/Mann%20Island%20Anim%20Echo.wmv) (© Uniform Communications Ltd)



Source (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/breakingnews/tm_headline=%2D120m-plan-to-transform-mann-island-approved%26method=full%26ob

jectid=18059373%26siteid=50061-name_page.html).....

[The Teardrop Explodes]

what a crap decision.

these are going to be windswept pig ugly lumps.

[ChrisGeorge]

The new building looks

like a monsterosity to me. Little better than the defeated Fourth Grace proposal. :disgust:

Chris

[AK1]

At first I hated this proposal, but over the past few months I have begun to like these

buildings. The revised design looks better than the original and alot of time and effort seems to have gone into it. I think that this project will be one of

those that is controvercial, but when it is complete I think people will actually like it and it will probably become one of the most liked buildings in the

city.

[Paul D]

The

new building looks like a monsterosity to me. Little better than the defeated Fourth Grace proposal. :disgust:

Chris

Some angles

work better than others I reckon I'm hoping all the doubters will change their opinions when it's built.

[Paul D]

The new building looks like a monsterosity to me. Little better than the defeated Fourth Grace proposal.

:disgust:

Chris

City waterfront plan to go ahead

A £120m development on the site of Liverpool's doomed Fourth Grace,

has been given the go-ahead.
The waterfront scheme consists of three wedge-shaped buildings on Mann Island, built next to the controversial X-shaped

Museum of Liverpool.

The city's planning committee gave its approval on Tuesday.

The decision had been delayed after concerns were raised

about whether it would affect the waterfront's World Heritage Status.

Inspectors visited the city, and the council said their preliminary report was

"positive". A more extensive report is not expected until next year.

Opponents claim the buildings, two of which will be residential, could harm the

area's architectural heritage.


Will Alsop's controversial design was eventually rejected

Among the groups opposing the scheme include

the Liverpool Preservation Trust, The Victorian Society and Albert Dock Residents' Association.

The three granite-clad buildings would house more

than 300 apartments in two buildings, as well as offices, shops, bars and restaurants.

Developers Neptune and Countryside Properties said the

buildings would frame views of the city's Three Graces - the Port of Liverpool Building, Cunard Building and the Liver Building.

Steve Parry,

managing director of Neptune Developments, said: "We are delighted to be finally moving ahead with this scheme.

'Positive support'

"This is

a not only one of the key development sites for Liverpool but one of the most important in the whole of the North West.

"The overwhelmingly positive

support we received is reflected in the decision of planning committee."

The plans were backed by English Heritage, Liverpool Vision and the North

West Development Agency.

Plans for a Fourth Grace - Will Alsop's "The Cloud" - were dropped in 2004, after they were deemed "unworkable".

[Kev]

@Paul, already posted on page 2, snap!

:p

[Paul D]

@Paul, already posted on page 2, snap! :p

It just shows you I've got my finger on the pulse,erm

eventually.:rolleyes:

[Kev]

An exhibition of the planned multi-million pound re-development of Liverpool's waterfront has been put on show at the city's Maritime Museum.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42232000/jpg/_42232448_mann_devp203.jpg (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42232000/jpg/_42232448_mann_devp203.jpg)

Visitors can experience a computer animated 'fly through' of the Mann Island changes, said developers Neptune and Countryside Properties.

Building work is to start early in the new year.

The exhibition is open until 21 December and visitors can leave their comments in a special book.

'Under-used asset'

Plans for the Mann Island site include a new £65m Museum of Liverpool, an extension to the Leeds Liverpool Canal, a £120m mixed-use development as well as improvements to areas for public use.

The new waterfront scheme is expected to create over 800 new jobs, as well as increase the number of visitors, said the developers.

"We're beginning to see a very positive change on the city's waterfront," said Jim Gill, Liverpool Vision's Chief Executive.

"Although the Pier Head and Mann Island present the city's image to the rest of the world, the area is one of the city's most under-used assets.

"The transformation of Mann Island is key to our ambitions of making the City Centre Waterfront a visitor destination of international significance," he added.

source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6165604.stm).......

[Kev]

THE Merseyside Civic Society has urged local government minister Ruth Kelly to intervene in plans for a multi-million pound development close to Liverpool Pier Head. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=campaigners-in-%2Dwedges%2D-plea%26method=full%26objectid=18185488%26siteid=50 061-name_page.html)

[christy]

I love the new museum building but think the apartment bocks are so out of place and ordinary. The museum is diferent and an individual iconic design that once built will be appreciated more. The apartments are such a waste of the site. The only good thing about them is the use of contrasting materials in relation to the '3 graces'. People who ask for buildings using the same materials don't seem to get the fact that this would actually detract from the 4 buildings by blending them in with obviously boring new pastiche rubbish. Modern iconic buildings are required for sites like this to make both the new build and the old stand on their own merits.. The housing trust building on commutation row is a perfect example of a boring post modern/pastiche piece of boring building that is a waste of a prime city site. You do not get people in Berlin or Barcelon asking for pastiche buildings to fit in with surroundings and the cities are the better for it.

[Waterways]

I love the new museum building but think the apartment bocks are so out of place and ordinary. The museum is diferent and an individual iconic design that once built will be appreciated more. The apartments are such a waste of the site. The only good thing about them is the use of contrasting materials in relation to the '3 graces'. People who ask for buildings using the same materials don't seem to get the fact that this would actually detract from the 4 buildings by blending them in with obviously boring new pastiche rubbish. Modern iconic buildings are required for sites like this to make both the new build and the old stand on their own merits.. The housing trust building on commutation row is a perfect example of a boring post modern/pastiche piece of boring building that is a waste of a prime city site. You do not get people in Berlin or Barcelon asking for pastiche buildings to fit in with surroundings and the cities are the better for it.

I posted below on another thread - relevant here. The museum can stay, but why not excavate the Dock and basin or even just one of them, as the canal runs through them anyway. Too easy is isn't it. The Pier Head is a dead space. A poor public space. The water will add value and history.

Excavating Manchester Dock & Chester Basin?

The Canal Link actually runs through the in-filled Chester Basin and Manchester Dock, north of the Canning Graving Docks. The basin and dock are still there underground complete with granite quays. Common sense would dictate fully excavating the basin and if possible the adjacent Manchester Dock too, which had a river lock. The location of the lock position is visible from the river wall at the Canning Dock. Archaeologists are to dig out much of the dock and basin. Leaving the water spaces uncovered and refilled with water would be the most appropriate action. These docks are over 220 years old. The canal could run right through Chester Basin giving berths for canal boats and adding to the charm of the Pier Head.

Any sensible developer would want to reinstate these small historic water spaces, as they would add value to their projects and gain public acceptability.

Below: Manchester Dock and Chester Basin are to the south west of the Dock Board Office at the Pier Head.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Map-PierHead-1910.jpg

http://www.saveliverpooldocks.co.uk
Go to: Canal Link page

[snappel]

Excavating Manchester Dock & Chester Basin?I totally agree. Every day I get more fed-up with these 'designer apartment' blocks everywhere. We should make best use of the riverside areas and not hide/destroy unique and historic features.

[Kev]

I totally agree. Every day I get more fed-up with these 'designer apartment' blocks everywhere. We should make best use of the riverside areas and not hide/destroy unique and historic features.

WaterWays, what have you done to us all? :shock: :celb (23): I've been reading up on the Old Dock now filled in beneath the Paradise Street developemnt area and am gutted what we have lost.

[Waterways]

WaterWays, what have you done to us all? :shock: :celb (23): I've been reading up on the Old Dock now filled in beneath the Paradise Street developemnt area and am gutted what we have lost.

Parts of the Old Dock were dug up recently. The quays are still there. The quays were poor as they were made of local sandstone and brick. One reason for filling in was the poor state of the quays as they were around 100 years old at the time.

Only a park was over it. It could have been dug out and re-instated and put to original condition complete with locks and bridge. Take away the Dock Rd and connect the Old Docks back onto the Dock network and what an environment. Too easy isn't it?
Have a look. Interesting:
http://www.oau-oxford.com/html_pages/maritime_trade.htm

http://www.oau-oxford.com/images/industrial/john.jpg

[christy]

I agree mate, would be ridiculous to build a museum of LIVERPOOL LIFE and ignore the history underneath or around it. If they are excavating the dock anyway, it surely makes sense to do as you say and use it as a feature and part of the new canal link which will only enhance the new building.
As for the old dock on the site of the pool, I raed that part of it is being used as a water feature in the park and some of the excavated walls/queys will be left visable and form a display with interactive info etc explaining the history of the site,- pool-dock-customs house etc.

The shanty 'blow the man down' comes from the are of the original dock doesn't it? 'As I was walking down Paradise street........' The warehouses behind Paradise street and around Lydia Anne street etc are all from this era I seem to remember. Hopefully Grosvenor have retsored the ones they said they would behind the old radio merseyside building, Shame they demolished what was one of the oldest houses in the area facing Gostins building next to the old Academy/Planet x. Still had the early Georgian box sash windows as well.

[marky]

Looks to me like the asphalt has been scraped away to reveal the old quays.

[Ged]

I agree that the docks and quays where possible should be reinstated, there's enough land and brownfield sites crying out for apartment blocks and the like (eg. all that wasteland on Tithebarn st next to the Railway pub looks an eyesore)

The black granite should be changed to white to fit in with the rest of the area as they just look like Steers house has been reshaped and shifted over there. I don't mind the quirky shapes actually, just that the height doesn't obscure the Port of Liverpool building.

I can't wait for the new museum of Liverpool life and hope that they don't let us down with the floorspace and contents.

[Harry]

Why does everyone get so misty eyed over old docks?
All they are are large holes surrounded by retaining walls to keep in water.
I think too many people look back with rose tinted spectacles at the days of shipping - I worked on the docks for years and it was hard graft in a filthy environment for bog standard wages.
They won't find any dinosaurs buried there or anything else of real interest - just the detritus of an dirty industry.

[twiz]

Maybe so but the docks are still a lasting reminder of Liverpool's heyday.

[Kev]

Maybe I should get Waterways off the ban list to explain about the docks.

[A.D.W]

Maybe I should get Waterways off the ban list to explain about the docks.


Yes!

:celb (23):

[PhilipG]

Maybe I should get Waterways off the ban list to explain about the docks.

NO!

[shytalk]

Waterways is very informative about dock matters, I think the best way to treat him is ignore him when he starts acting up, that is what I did, no replies to his nonsense. He was in a lot of ways an asset to this forum. I think he should be allowed back if he will quit calling people nasty names.

[A.D.W]

Waterways is very informative about dock matters, I think the best way to treat him is ignore him when he starts acting up, that is what I did, no replies to his nonsense. He was in a lot of ways an asset to this forum. I think he should be allowed back if he will quit calling people nasty names.

Mr Waterways can call me all the names under the sun and I think he should still be allowed back. He adds far more to this forum than he takes away, IMHO.

[PhilipG]

Waterways is very informative about dock matters, I think the best way to treat him is ignore him when he starts acting up, that is what I did, no replies to his nonsense. He was in a lot of ways an asset to this forum. I think he should be allowed back if he will quit calling people nasty names.

But when some people think they're indispensable, they also think they're much better than us mere mortals, and they can be extremely cruel, which must make the poor victims just quietly leave the forum.

[shytalk]

But when some people think they're indispensable, they also think they're much better than us mere mortals, and they can be extremely cruel, which must make the poor victims just quietly leave the forum.

Some truth in that too.:037:

[The Teardrop Explodes]

But when some people think they're indispensable, they also think they're much better than us mere mortals, and they can be extremely cruel, which must make the poor victims just quietly leave the forum.

Fair enough.
Missed the terrible side of him, saw bits of the 'bad' side though. Said it before, in fact I also said it to him, that it was a big shame how he couldn't just lighten up his act a bit. A shame because a lot of his contributions were excellent.

He made me laugh on more than a couple of occaisions the cudmugeonly old sod.
"The colour of Liverpool is green, and green it stays." !!!!!!!!!

[marky]

This little ramp was installed in the last few days...I'm guessing to stop people from getting their feet wet at full tide (sometimes the gates at either end of the Riverside Walk are closed when the river gets dangerous).

[Max]

Feet wet? Buaahahahahah.

[RoddersUK]

Does the design not remind anyone of the film 2001?
I had to check it wasn't April 1st when i saw pictures of this scheme.
I can't think of a worse solution to building on this site. Blank, soulless, faceless slabs that only detract from the existing architecture.

[leelad05]

I did notice the pier head was all blocked off, (walking pathways) as works are getting done! One of my fav places in liverpool and im so glad its all getting done up again!

Great to see theose pictures people have been posting thanks!

Come on Liverpool 2008!

[snappel]

Taken today from the Cunard Building roof.


http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/croof/Dsc_0171.jpg
Manchester Dock excavations. The canal route seems to be going off to the left in the foreground.

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/croof/Dsc_0174.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/croof/Dsc_0176.jpg
Re-routing gas and water mains under the concrete base of the canal.

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/croof/Dsc_0180.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/croof/Dsc_0184.jpg

[Steven]

Brill pickies,


We dug a hole in the ground,

Until we found,

A Hole called Wallasey,,


Where does that tune come from ?

[Kev]

Excellent pics snappel

[marie]

After reading the answers, I am a bit confused. I was thinking that the post was speaking on the Men's Island, but seeing the photographies and the commentaries, I see that they are on several docks of Liverpool.

Not if it is because the news has turned aside of the topic, or because some zone of docks is known as Men's Island.

I hope that someone could explain it to me. Thank you!

[Steven]

After reading the answers, I am a bit confused. I was thinking that the post was speaking on the Men's Island, but seeing the photographies and the commentaries, I see that they are on several docks of Liverpool.

Not if it is because the news has turned aside of the topic, or because some zone of docks is known as Men's Island.

I hope that someone could explain it to me. Thank you!
#

It's got nothing to do with Men or Women, Marie. It is a place down near Albert Dock.

Maybe it gets it's name from The Isle of Man, which is not too far from Liverpool ? Perhaps somebody will know the history ?

[PhilipG]

#

It's got nothing to do with Men or Women, Marie. It is a place down near Albert Dock.

Maybe it gets it's name from The Isle of Man, which is not too far from Liverpool ? Perhaps somebody will know the history ?

It's named after somebody called Mann, and Island because at one time it could only be reached by going over a bridge (or bridges?).

[marie]

It's named after somebody called Mann, and Island because at one time it could only be reached by going over a bridge (or bridges?).

Thank Steven and PhilipG for the info! I was confused.

[kenotoole123@msn.com]

In 1784 a local businessman....'John Mann' died....So they renamed a small island (Previously known as 'Mersey Island')......'Mann Island'.....He was an 'Oil-Stone' Dealer.:)

[woody]

Saturday 21 April 2007, first section of canal culvert emerging into Mann Island............

httphttp://img75.imageshack.us/img75/543/20070421waterfront2007anc9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)://

[marky]

Demolition is underway, at this very minute, of the sheds at Mann Island (the ones next to the Great Western Railway sheds). Also the building on the corner of Mann Island/Strand is being cleared out.

[Paul D]

Demolition is underway, at this very minute, of the sheds at Mann Island (the ones next to the Great Western Railway sheds). Also the building on the corner of Mann Island/Strand is being cleared out.

Is this to make way for the canal or the Mann Island scheme I wonder?

[Kev]

THE man leading the £65m Museum of Liverpool Life project yesterday insisted the city would grow to love the controversial building. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpoolecho/news/echonews/tm_headline=you%2D%2D8217%2Dll-love-it-one-day%2D-says-director-of-new-museum%26method=full%26objectid=19026117%26siteid= 50061-name_page.html)

[marky]

^^^ That sounds like the usual 'spin' from people who think they 'know' what Liverpudlians want.
I took this yesterday...this view is going to be lost.
On the right are the sheds getting demolished (the old Mercedes ones, I think).
Re: Mann...anything to do with the naming of Mann Street and Upper Mann Street in Toxteth?

[Ged]

I think this building is alright, a million times more discreet than the cloud proposal. Paul (The Gardens) and I, were invited down to discuss our ideas which they are going ahead with and so we had the priveledge of seeing how they foresee the four galleries. Port, Creative, People and Global (if I remember correctly) There are lots of interchangable spaces for temporary exhibitions as well as some long term static ones. There will be four massive windows, each looking out into different aspects, ie - one towards the city, one facing out to the Mersey etc, it's just a pity there isn't a basement to allow even more square footage for additional items. If anyone liked the old MoLL, they'll love this.

[phredd]

These pics of the work at Mann Island were taken yesterday >>>>

Oh! and I got a piece of ?clay pipe, the smokers kind = it was dug deep I am told, so it must be close on 100yo.

And can anyone tell me what the last picture represents please ?

Phredd

[RoddersUK]

I think the Museum is a great design. I attended a talk by the architects in the Renew Rooms some time ago and there was a lot of thought put in to the site lines, massing and materials etc.
Their web site has some very good images showing how the design came about.

www.3xn.com

I just wish the architects for that black monstrosity thats going up next to it put half as much thought into their design.


PS. Your last picture is part of 'The Real Thing - Contemporary Art From China' exhibition at the Tate.
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_method=full%26objectid=18666589%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

It's by Ai Weiwei. Although it looks remarkably similar to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Tatlin

[phredd]

Rodders thanks for the input.
Thats exactly what it is like. I saw the thing before it was in the water and took no notice:-tut-tut. >>>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Tatlin

Phredd.

[ChrisGeorge]

I think this building is alright, a million times more discreet than the cloud proposal. Paul (The Gardens) and I, were invited down to discuss our ideas which they are going ahead with and so we had the priveledge of seeing how they foresee the four galleries. Port, Creative, People and Global (if I remember correctly) There are lots of interchangable spaces for temporary exhibitions as well as some long term static ones. There will be four massive windows, each looking out into different aspects, ie - one towards the city, one facing out to the Mersey etc, it's just a pity there isn't a basement to allow even more square footage for additional items. If anyone liked the old MoLL, they'll love this.

Hi Ged

I agree that the proposed Cloud was an eyesore that looked for all the world like a deflated football or doughnut. It certainly would have detracted from the beauty of the Three Graces. The new design for the museum, first being white and sitting low, is much more in keeping with the existing buildings at the Pier Head and we should be grateful for that. At least an unpopular and unappealing design is not being foisted on the citizens of Liverpool. Hooray. :handclap:

Chris

[Ged]

Yeah Chris and with the canal running by it, the area will become alive again i'm sure. It was great watching the South dock road area spring to life with the new marinas wharf, car show rooms, Brunswick station, hotels and restaurant etc and with this museum and the towers at Princes dock and todays news about the yacht lookalike homes by Peel etc, things have never looked better as far as i'm concerned, better than the desolation of the 80s.

[Kev]

things have never looked better as far as i'm concerned, better than the desolation of the 80s. :handclap: :handclap:

[Kev]

Loyd Grossman talks about his hopes for the new Museum of Liverpool. more (http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/articles/2007/04/30/cap_cult_museum_turf_feature.shtml)

[ChrisGeorge]

Yeah Chris and with the canal running by it, the area will become alive again i'm sure. It was great watching the South dock road area spring to life with the new marinas wharf, car show rooms, Brunswick station, hotels and restaurant etc and with this museum and the towers at Princes dock and todays news about the yacht lookalike homes by Peel etc, things have never looked better as far as i'm concerned, better than the desolation of the 80s.

Aye, Ged and Kev, great to see things on the upswing. :PDT11 :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Chris

[Paul D]

Mann Island dream gets under way

DEMOLITION work has begun on development of the £120m development at Mann Island near Liverpool’s Pier Head.

The project, on the former site of a luxury car showroom, will create new public areas, cafes and restaurants, shops, exhibition space, 376 apartments and high quality office space.

Developers say the first flats, in black granite triangular buildings designed to reflect the tones and textures of the nearby docks, will be finished by spring 2009 and the entire scheme should be completed a year later.

Ground-breaking also took place this week at nearby £65m Museum of Liverpool development. Both schemes are forecast to create 1,000 jobs and attract 1.25m visitors a year.

Neptune managing director Steve Parry said: “Our vision for this site will now become reality.”

[woody]

Mann Island 5 May 07..........:034:

htthttp://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8634/20070505trip07ferrymay0ac3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)p://

[Paul D]

Thanks Woody I thought they'd never start.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[marky]

The Porsche showroom has been demolished.

[Kev]

The Porsche showroom has been demolished.

:handclap: Excellent, great to see things moving along at last :handclap:

[A.D.W]

Shame to see this building go.

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/pierhead/grace/mann02060713.jpg (http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/pierhead/grace/mannis1.html)

[MerseysideTransportTrust]

I'm glad we obtained this photo at Mann Island on our Running day last September, recreating an early 70s scene

Hope you like.

regards Rob

Copyright M Youdan

[A.D.W]

I'm glad we obtained this photo at Mann Island on our Running day last September, recreating an early 70s scene

Hope you like.

regards Rob

Copyright M Youdan

The number 4 to Woolton. A fine village!

Hurrah!

:)

Good picture.

:PDT11

[Gerard]

*****

[A.D.W]

I'm sorry for ruining these piccies with my name plastered all over them folks but this is one set that Is definately gonna stay mine..
Too much right clickin' and editing jiggery pockery goin' on if yer ask me and these are not going to end up being sold as postcards in Mediterranean souvenir shops..
Not on your nellie their not :unibrow:..Hope yer like em..G..

I sort of understand what you mean about the copyright, Gerard, still seems a shame that you have to post your name all over them.

Top totty pictures all the same.

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Gerard]

**********

[marie]

I am curiosity for know... why this island´s name?

[shytalk]

marie,
Post #98 on this thread.

In 1784 a local businessman....'John Mann' died....So they renamed a small island (Previously known as 'Mersey Island')......'Mann Island'.....He was an 'Oil-Stone' Dealer.

[AK1]

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/liverpoolcanallink

[Jericho]

I'm glad we obtained this photo at Mann Island on our Running day last September, recreating an early 70s scene

Hope you like.

regards Rob

Copyright M Youdan

:handclap: Great pic but (ahem) not very accurate history! Isn't that where the Crosville buses used to terminate? H1, H2, H5 etc?

And weren't the 4 & 5 mostly seen in South Castle Street?

As for the 80A :Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13

[Jericho]

ooops -I'm not being cryptic. I'm referring to post # 119 (other page!) which somehow appeared to be the last post on this thread :008:

[Jericho]

@ Gerard. I understand your concern about copyright and being ripped off but your name in the top left hand corner would suffice. People don't steal images by accident. They know what they are doing. All you need to do is prove that the original image is yours which isn't very difficult if the image was digitally encoded. IMO your overuse of your name in the above pictures spoils them. You used to be happy with one or two imprints of your name on each photo. What has changed?

[snappel]

I agree. Chances are if someone steals them it'll be a local publication or newspaper, and someone will spot them. In which case you can invoice them accordingly. Although you're not taking photos as a profession, a cheque for a few hundred quid is some new camera kit, a weekend away or some nice meals out.

As I've said before, I use a small watermark. I've had photos stolen once that I know about and I settled with the offending publication for what I see as a fairly significant amount of money.

On this note, if anybody wants any advice on how to obtain payment for stolen photos, I'd be glad to help. I've helped other people get what they've deserved in the past, and nine times out of ten the same methods work. Naturally I wouldn't expect any payment for helping out - I just don't like seeing people's hard work being exploited by others.

[A.D.W]

I agree. Chances are if someone steals them it'll be a local publication or newspaper, and someone will spot them. In which case you can invoice them accordingly. Although you're not taking photos as a profession, a cheque for a few hundred quid is some new camera kit, a weekend away or some nice meals out.

As I've said before, I use a small watermark. I've had photos stolen once that I know about and I settled with the offending publication for what I see as a fairly significant amount of money.

On this note, if anybody wants any advice on how to obtain payment for stolen photos, I'd be glad to help. I've helped other people get what they've deserved in the past, and nine times out of ten the same methods work. Naturally I wouldn't expect any payment for helping out - I just don't like seeing people's hard work being exploited by others.

I suppose the first hurdle is finding out if any of your pictures are stolen(?).

[Gerard]

****

[A.D.W]

Sorry chaps but I disagree.Im looking through books right now trying to find Scotland Rd pubs..(Books as in several ..not just the Pubs of Scottie Rd as I mentioned earlier)
I've found at least 4 photos in these Books taken by Joe Devine in the 70's and he has not been credited or given a penny for them.
That is NOT going to happen to my pictures..
1 watermark can be removed..Milions of them cant...I have'nt got the money to chase these things through courts for years with denials and "I took that picture and you cant prove I never" lark..

If somebody right clicks my photo isnt all the exif data or whatever its called lost ??.Whats to stop any argument going through the courts for years.

And Im not Interested in suing people either..Sorry if it spoils the pics..Ive seen what happened to my mates pictures and I'll say it again..Its not going to happen to mine..


I'd gladly let people use my pictures if they ask..
But not everybody has the good manners to ask do they..or give credit..Jobo will confirm that.
I Dont want any of my pictures or Joe Devines ending up on another Liverpool site and thats the only reason I watermark them..
And I'm on about Scottie Press..They had their chance and could have had millions of the best Liverpool/Scottie Rd photos ever..
I learnt my Lesson on Scottie Press I can tell yer...And it wont happen again..Running around giving Scottie Rd photo Dvds away for nothing all over Scottie Rd to Pensioners and so called friends and then getting no support when it all went off...Not that I mind..I'll argue all day me..But I reckon 500 on to 1 is just a bit too much..even for me.

Starting to understand what you mean, Gerard. Keeping taking those dandy pictures, with or without watermarks, all the same.

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Paul D]

Top pictures there Gerard.:handclap:

[Gerard]

Starting to understand what you mean, Gerard. Keeping taking those dandy pictures, with or without watermarks, all the same.

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Thanks AD..:PDT11

[Gerard]

Top pictures there Gerard.:handclap:

Thank You Paul..my pleasure mate.

[chippie]

Too late Gerard. I,ve just come back from Mara, Marra, Marrer, CREWE and a man in pyjamas, or was it a woman, just asked me did I want any mucky postcards. I said yes, and he showed me yours:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[MerseysideTransportTrust]

:handclap: Great pic but (ahem) not very accurate history! Isn't that where the Crosville buses used to terminate? H1, H2, H5 etc?

And weren't the 4 & 5 mostly seen in South Castle Street?

As for the 80A :Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13

Depends on the year, the 4,5 were Sth Castle Sreet mostly.

However some journeys were operated from Mann Island as confirmed by the 1972 and 1976 timetables.

Other routes using Mann island and Georges Dock Way were 73,73a,79a, 79e, 16, 1, 76 and all the Crosville H routes.

On our running day last year we were running 4,5 and 73 from Mann Island presumably some little IMP:disgust: had been messing with the rear numbers.

Hope you are all going to join us on our next Running day on 9th Sept.

kind regards

Rob

[marky]

Mann Island House looks to be next on the demolition list...it now has scaffolding around it and is being gutted.

[PhilipG]

Mann Island House looks to be next on the demolition list...it now has scaffolding around it and is being gutted.

Is the former Voss Motors building to be demolished?

[marky]

The frontage of Voss Motors building looks safe for a bit longer. I thought all of Mann Island was scheduled for demolition, to make way for those modern 'black granite' buildings. They must be saving Voss Motors until last.

[marky]

Mann Island building, almost demolished.

[Kev]

Thanks, I walked past this last week and it was still there :shock:

[Red scouser]

Mann Island building, almost demolished.

Good picture! Mann Island is already looking better! :034:

[marky]

Re: Voss Motors (Mercedes building)
I noticed 'Demolition in Progress' signs and a wire fence have been erected around the front...probably only a couple of weeks left to get photos.

[PhilipG]

Re: Voss Motors (Mercedes building)
I noticed 'Demolition in Progress' signs and a wire fence have been erected around the front...probably only a couple of weeks left to get photos.

Thanks Marky.
I took my photos a couple of weeks ago.

Tip to photographers:
The higher windows make great mirrors to reflect parts of The Three Graces.

[drone_pilot]

Mann Island building, almost demolished.

Anyone any idea what the Brick building is?

[PhilipG]

Anyone any idea what the Brick building is?

It's the pump house for the Mersey Railway.
Built about 1885.

[Jonny]

Whats going to be built there? Is it the Museum?

[AK1]

Whats going to be built there? Is it the Museum?

The museum will be closer to the mersey, with the Mann Island Project set further back. Use Links:

http://www.neptunedevelopments.co.uk/developments/showdevelopment.asp?recordid=30

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/about/capitalprojects/mol/

[Jonny]

Wow looks impressive. Thanks for the links.

[XL391]

Voss Motors being demolished as we speak. Got a few pics yesterday, only on camera phone though. I think it's a shame..... :034: :sad:

[marky]

Voss Motors...just the right-hand side had been demolished when I passed this morning. The upper reflecting windows were still there today.

[doorwaydave]

Hi,
took a few photos of the mann island site around noon today...

:034:

the photos below show the demolition of buildings on mann island with the albert dock and the pumphouse pub chimney in the backround...

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/pik07.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/IMG_0008.jpg

below is a photo of the old mercedes showroom? (not sure...)

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/pik06.jpg

third photo shows foundations on the site of the new museum...

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/IMG_0009.jpg

[AK1]

Great photos!:handclap:

[kat2]

I just wish the weather was better, all this building work and it looks more like winter than summer
kat
:034:

[PhilipG]

14 April 2007.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1106/841257609_50c3dc6527_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1159/842125620_a1687a3794_o.jpg

[Ged]

A couple of great pics Phil :handclap:

[Jericho]

The second one looks like it would make an excellent cover for a book.

[PhilipG]

Thanks Chaps.
I was there yesterday, and the demolition is still underway.

[PhilipG]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1357/850143391_8678159fef_o.jpg

[Red scouser]

The demolition work is progressing well (at least moving in the right direction...)

Will be interesting to see the X museum and the three graces (granite this time) go up. Enjoy the excellent views of the other three graces from the Albert Dock now while you still can! :eek:

[marky]

The railway lines near the dock are getting exposed...just look for a couple of workers with dust-brushes (by the area that used to be the entrance to Mann Island Finance).

[marky]

Yellow sandstone wall and red-brick wall. These are beneath the cobbles at the rear of Mann Island Finance. I don't know what was here prior to the car-park.

[kat2]

interesting find I wonder if anyone knows what the sandstone wall were?
kat:)

[marky]

Much more of the brickwork has been revealed today. The workers were cleaning up a large curved brick feature (several feet wide).

[Steven]

I don't know how correct this is ? but I have been told that all of that Sandstone (including the stuff to build the Cathedral) came from Quarry Street, off Beaconsfield Road.

(Near Strawberry fields > for our Overseas mates.)

[kat2]

i dunno, but the photos i took looked like red brick to me, but further round where the pontoon is there are lots of sandstone blocks fenced off, no doubt perhaps either for the canal or some kind of feature garden?
kat:)

[marky]

According to information sheets placed on the fence around Mann Island...the yellow sandstone is part of the Canning Dock wall. Some of the other structures will be of interest to railway buffs...the curved pits are to do with the old Mersey Railway Tunnel ventilation system.

[PhilipG]

I don't know how correct this is ? but I have been told that all of that Sandstone (including the stuff to build the Cathedral) came from Quarry Street, off Beaconsfield Road.

(Near Strawberry fields > for our Overseas mates.)

Woolton Sandstone has been used for lots of Liverpool buildings, including the Anglican Cathedral, but the quarry was worked out before the Cathedral was finished and stone from Runcorn (I think) was used to complete the building.

[kat2]

Mann Island developments video (promotional )
http://www.mannislandapartments.com/flythrough

More here but from a different website to do with the developments
http://www.neptunedevelopments.co.uk/news/news.asphttp://www.neptunedevelopments.co.uk/images/mannisland1.jpg
kat:)

[Paul D]

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2909/theolddocksdv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[kat2]

Same photographic position as mine, but in colour if you scroll five messages back up from your post, six if you count this *lol*
lets hope we get some better weather to get some decent photos
kat:)

[iain]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1108/1435118824_49d2bf0ba5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/iainjones1980/1435118824/)

[AK1]

Great pic!:handclap:

[iain]

Thanks :PDT11

Anyone know what's happening with that corner of the Port of Liverpool building, with the scaffolding on it?

[Kev]

30th September 2007 (Please view the original FULL sizes) :PDT11

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/1463279754_a6ae685b56_o.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/1463279754_a6ae685b56_o.jpg)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/1462889749_90fba393c8.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/1462889749/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1189/1463745788_67ec1fa85b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/1463745788/)

Seeing these worried me slighty:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1179/1462520315_bf7a3a8f54.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/1462520315/)

New Liverpool Museum:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1426/1463279442_64772562f2_o.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1426/1463279442_64772562f2_o.jpg)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1406/1463281280_98d7484f2d_o.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1406/1463281280_98d7484f2d_o.jpg)

Canal Link:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1400/1463278880_54d904b1b6_o.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1400/1463278880_54d904b1b6_o.jpg)

[phredd]

Can anyone tell me why the building on the right in pic five is still standing ??

I thought it would have gone the way of all landfill by now.
From the day my mother took me there I have hated the place.
Looking forward to the new one though.

Phredd

[Kev]

LIVERPOOL’S new museum has won a £1.4m Government grant to pay its running costs for its first year.

The waterfront X-shaped development will benefit from the extra funding in 2010 after a spending review by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.

Culture Secretary James Purnell pledged an extra £50m to Arts Council England to be invested in the arts over the next three years.

The funding guarantees free public admission to England’s national museums and galleries until at least 2011.

National Museums Liverpool say the extra £1.4m funding will enable them to provide a world-class tourist attraction, displaying popular objects like the Lion steam locomotive and a carriage from Liverpool's historic overhead railway.

more (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/10/13/city-s-new-museum-wins-grant-to-cover-first-year-s-running-costs-64375-19944800/)

[woody]

[B]30th September 2007 (Please view the original FULL sizes) :PDT11
Canal Link:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1400/1463278880_54d904b1b6_o.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1400/1463278880_54d904b1b6_o.jpg)


Kev, great pics, that last one is a beaut. showing the meeting of the canal and the museum.
Can I show it over on SSC, please:rolleyes:

[ChrisGeorge]

LIVERPOOL’S new museum has won a £1.4m Government grant to pay its running costs for its first year.

The waterfront X-shaped development will benefit from the extra funding in 2010 after a spending review by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.

Culture Secretary James Purnell pledged an extra £50m to Arts Council England to be invested in the arts over the next three years.

The funding guarantees free public admission to England’s national museums and galleries until at least 2011.

National Museums Liverpool say the extra £1.4m funding will enable them to provide a world-class tourist attraction, displaying popular objects like the Lion steam locomotive and a carriage from Liverpool's historic overhead railway.

more (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/10/13/city-s-new-museum-wins-grant-to-cover-first-year-s-running-costs-64375-19944800/)

The funding guarantees free public admission to England’s national museums and galleries until at least 2011.

Wonderful to know! Thanks, Kev, and to you and everyone for the great pics and information. :PDT11 :handclap:

Chris

[Kev]

World legacy lost

Oct 15 2007 (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/10/15/) by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

OVER the past few weeks, thousands of people have been intrigued and spellbound as a team of archaeologists uncovered an amazing slice of Liverpool’s maritime legacy.

The team was commissioned to carry out the dig at Mann Island, soon to become home to three granite-faced cheese-shaped blocks.

The developers paid for the dig, though they had to as it was a requirement of the planning consent they won to redevelop the site.

I wrote an article on the dig and it was followed-up by BBC television and beamed around the world on their 24-hour news channel.

I popped along occasionally to watch the work in progress as it revealed old cobbled streets and the remains of long-demolished buildings. One of the most fascinating relics to be uncovered was the original fan-driven smoke extractor system built for the Mersey rail tunnel in the late 1890s. Its aim was to extract smoke from steam trains, but was a failure. So they introduced the world’s first electric train service instead. The archaeologists told me that, when they had finished their exploration, the site would be levelled off with ground-up building debris and then the new wedges would go on top. The only consolation was that, maybe in a century’s time, if the wedges are demolished, the then time-detectives of 2107 would marvel at the hidden gems and turn it into a visitor attraction.

So what happens. Last week, dirty big mechanical diggers were drafted in to completely rip apart the whole site, the old foundations, cobble stones, that quirky old brick-built smoke extractor system. They have left, to be buried, a stretch of old dock wall. But the rest is history.
It brings into sharp focus again the way Liverpool’s World Heritage Site is being cared for, or rather not cared for.

There is talk of setting up a posse of cultural sheriffs on the orders of the World Heritage Committee. As well as the city council, the sheriffs will include so-called cultural guardians such as English Heritage and CABE, the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment. The Liverpool office of CABE is part-funded by the city council and Liverpool Vision, and the recently retired chairman of English Heritage is a trustee of National Museums Liverpool.

I would have felt more comforted had the new “cultural police” been made up entirely of people who had no links at all with developers, developments, funders and planners.

Interestingly, there is no place on the proposed body for those the establishment consider outlaws. People like unsung heroine Florence Gersten and sabre-rattling cultural campaigner Wayne Colquhoun are regarded as nuisances. Yet they and a small band of like-minded people are the last bastions of those attempting to preserve our wonderful heritage.

It is a finger in the dyke operation for them, and far too often their passionate pleas to spare old buildings fall on deaf ears.

It is not about preserving the cultural quarter in aspic, but having a system that prevents developments.

Our World Heritage Site does not belong to developers, politicians or quango kings – it belongs to the world.

[Kev]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2034/1815307320_9710658464_b.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2034/1815307320_9710658464_b.jpg)

[AK1]

It's amazing to see how fast buildings go up these days!:eek: Thanks for the great pic Kev:handclap:

[Kev]

Thank you

[Ged]

The Danish architects of the new museum of Liverpool life at Mann Island have been sacked........

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=museum-of-liverpool-bosses-sack-danish-design-firm%26method=full%26objectid=20111538%26siteid=50 061-name_page.html

[Paul D]

Now we're going to see the materials used on this change from marble to limestone on the exterior because it's cheaper and the inside will no longer be as fancy,was using 3XN just a ploy to get planning permission in such a sensitive location? :disgust:

[PhilipG]

OMG!
Here we go again.
Hopefully, these things don't just happen in Liverpool.

[chippie]

Sure is getting busy down there Kev. Great photo.

As for the redesign or rather poorer quality materials, well another fiasco, but it could look o.k. to a blind man on a foggy day.

[Ged]

Thankfully, no, they don't just happen in Liverpool, another forum is giving examples of this. Spiraling costs and not being able to meet the deadline are reasons being given but since we'll have to live with it a lot longer than the tourists, I 'd rather see it done properly and overun a few months. I've yet to see either a domestic or business development come in on or under budget or on time without going over budget and I watch enough programmes on them.

[RoddersUK]

This was going to be Liverpools only real new world class building. I can't believe they have done this. Sure to be another fiasco. Liverpool will end up with a watered down second rate building, still over budget and late but now with a someone else to take the blame ie. 3XN.
So disappointing yet again.
:disgust:

[Kev]

2nd December 2007:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2080/2080603755_08eb77624b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/2080603755/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2088/2080605059_4428a07127.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/2080605059/)

[Kev]

27th December 2007, Hilton Hotel in the foreground:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2222/2143797282_6861dee21f_o.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2222/2143797282_6861dee21f_o.jpg)

[A.D.W]

Starting to take shape nicely, Kev. Cheers for the picture update.

:PDT11

[Kev]

Thanks :PDT11

[taffy]

Interestingly this new museum is to be called " Museum of Liverpool" which is different from Liverpool Museum it seems.

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/mol/

[doorwaydave]

new museum taking shape - pictures taken from the albert dock today...

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/SL274000.jpg


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/SL274004.jpg


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/SL273999.jpg


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/SL273996.jpg

:034:

[Ged]

Interestingly this new museum is to be called " Museum of Liverpool" which is different from Liverpool Museum it seems.

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/mol/


Liverpool Museum (William Brown Street) of course was always a world museum based in Liverpool and so the name change to World museum. The new museum of Liverpool is for all things Liverpool only and replaces the Museum of Liverpool life so as not to confuse the two.

[taffy]

Liverpool Museum (William Brown Street) of course was always a world museum based in Liverpool and so the name change to World museum. The new museum of Liverpool is for all things Liverpool only and replaces the Museum of Liverpool life so as not to confuse the two.

I still find "Museum of Liverpool" confusing as a title as most people still refer to the museum on William Brown St as "Liverpool Museum" whatever the managers of the museum have decided to rename it. I suspect the man in the street is equally confused. Liverpool has a history of keeping old names; "Pierhead" being only one example of a modern misnomer.

[Ged]

The deal involving the sale of the new apartment blocks at Mann Island is the biggest in the city's history.

Story here:

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/tm_headline=mann-island-deal-is-the-biggest-in-city-8217-s-history%26method=full%26objectid=20360597%26siteid =50061-name_page.html


.

[Kev]

that's great news, cheers Ged :PDT11

[Howie]

Cladding row could delay new Liverpool museum
Jan 18 2008
by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/nov2006/5/6/2EA0DC31-9F45-9B00-8779F2CA341EC688.jpg

FRESH fears emerged last night that construction of Liverpool’s new flagship museum will run over schedule.

It has been revealed that problems with choosing marble for the facade means a new planning application will be needed.

National Museums Liverpool (NML) is planning to change the facade of the £50m Museum of Liverpool at Mann Island from Travertine marble to Jura limestone.

It follows the sacking of Danish architects 3XN, who were replaced with Manchester-based practice AEW in November.

Heritage campaigners last night raised concerns that a new planning application, which will have to be considered by the city’s planning committee, could delay the scheme by months.

Long-term patron and city solicitor Rex Makin, who has given the organisation hundreds of thousands of pounds, last night said the situation was a “crisis”.

More (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/01/18/cladding-row-could-delay-new-liverpool-museum-64375-20364559/)...

[AK1]

If it needs a new planning application they should either hurry up and rush it through or stick with the original cladding. Panicing and moaning isn't going to solve anything.

[Ged]

Sad to see 2011 mentioned as on schedule when I was told 2010. My model is going in there and I need the space in my garage quick :)

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=no-crisis-at-163-68m-liverpool-museum%26method=full%26objectid=20383440%26siteid= 50061-name_page.html



.

[Kev]

16th Feb 2008:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/2268549847_53b7dc9a80.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/2268549847_53b7dc9a80.jpg)

[doorwaydave]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/IMG_0020-1.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/IMG_0025-1.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/doorwaydave/IMG_0027-1.jpg

[Howie]

New Pier Head museum will "offer great views of Mersey"
Mar 3 2008
by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

LIVERPOOL'S new £68m museum is to feature viewing platforms affording “beautiful views” across the Mersey and Pier Head.

National Museums Liverpool (NML) has applied for planning permission for the platforms as part of a redesign to improve the ramps for disabled people to access the building.

NML has also applied for permission to change the cladding from Travertine marble to Jura marble on the Museum of Liverpool which is currently being built at Mann Island.

It follows the sacking of Danish architects 3XN, who were replaced with Manchester-based practice AEW in November.

Heritage campaigners have raised concerns the change in material could lead to a impasse with the city's planning committee.

Last month, the Daily Post revealed just how important the material used in the cladding was to the council when the scheme was originally given planning permission.

Last night, a NML spokesman said: “The original material proposed for the cladding of the new Museum of Liverpool, Travertine limestone, has been proven, after testing, to be unsuitable for the building.

“The open face of the stone has natural fissures which have become pitted with black algae and some of the panels have fractured.

“An alternative limestone, Jura, has been sourced and this is much finer grained with a closed surface which will not attract the same degree of growth and can be surface treated to ensure that it remains pristine and can be protected against graffiti.

“This is now subject to a new planning application. Jura has been used on many major public buildings, including the Royal Danish Opera House in Copenhagen, a building of quality.”

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/03/03/new-pier-head-museum-will-offer-great-views-of-mersey-64375-20549233/)

[Kev]

http://www.suttonkersh.co.uk/templates/en/new_developments_files/mann_island.pdf

[Ged]

They could have made the landing stage look a bit better on that render couldn't they ;)

[RoddersUK]

Interesting interview with the Architects now running the New Museum project.

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=453&storycode=3110196

[Howie]

Uncertainty over new £68m museum likely to be settled by planners
Apr 8 2008
by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

UNCERTAINTY over Liverpool’s new £68m museum on the city’s historic waterfront looks likely to be settled today when councillors are asked to approve a new facade for the building.

The Museum of Liverpool is now on its second set of architects and the building is due before the city’s planning committee today because of a change in the marble cladding from Travertine to Jura.

Council planners have recommended that the switch in material be approved.

The change in material has angered heritage campaigners who last night said the new material is not good enough and that they always said Travertine was unsuitable anyway.

The change in cladding material followed National Museums Liverpool (NML) sacking Danish architects 3XN, who were replaced with Manchester-based practice AEW in November.

The saga over the new museum also lead long-term patron and city solicitor Rex Makin, who has given the organisation hundreds of thousands of pounds, to des-cribe the situation as a “crisis”.

Despite the cladding issue work has continued on the Mann Island site and is on track to be built by the end of the year with an open-ing date in 2010 or 2011.

Approval was given for the museum in December 2005 and according to NML a sample panel of Travertine marble has remained on the site since.

A council report says NML “became concerned about the suitability of the material, because it has shown extensive signs of weathering and discolouration.”

The Travertine had attracted dirt, the surface had stained from water run off, and algae had begun to form with some of the fissures.

NML said that Jura limestone, by virtue of its dense structure and low porosity, is less susceptible to weathering and more resistant to graffiti.

“Its closed face makes it difficult to permanently attach paint and also makes it easier to clean,” states the report.

“By contrast, the nature of the Travertine makes it absorbent to paint and difficult to clean. The Jura is smooth and will not harbour algae or dirt.

“The Planning Manager is satisfied Jura limestone is a high quality, durable material which is a fitting material for the new Liverpool Museum and the important historic context within which it is to be located.”

Wayne Colquhoun, of the Liverpool Preservation Trust, said he had warned of the vulnerability of Travertine when the original planning permission was granted.

“This whole affair has turned into a farce. Changing from Travertine to Jura is like giving a sore thumb a bruise.”

He said Jura was the type of material used for the Metquarter shopping centre, but was not appropriate for a world heritage site.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/04/08/uncertainty-over-new-68m-museum-likely-to-be-settled-by-planners-64375-20733175/)

[Howie]

Council demands tests to prove new museum can withstand sea air
Apr 9 2008
by Ben Schofield, Liverpool Daily Post

JURA limestone will clad the £68m Museum of Liverpool, but only if planning officers are satisfied with durability test results, it was decided yesterday.

More (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/04/09/council-demands-tests-to-prove-new-museum-can-withstand-sea-air-64375-20738860/)...

[Kev]

12th April 2008:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/2407105129_30baa2ee76.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/2407105129_30baa2ee76.jpg)

Huge version (worth a view): Here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/2407105129/sizes/o/in/photostream/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/2407936148_9d3fc45f48.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/2407936148_9bd93d782e_o.jpg)

Huge version (worth a view): Here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/2407936148/sizes/o/in/photostream/)

[Kev]

12th April 2008

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2126/2407278021_8ebe17776a_o.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2126/2407278021_8ebe17776a_o.jpg)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3103/2407277593_c785692a1b_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3103/2407277593_c785692a1b_o.jpg)

[Ged]

3 in 1 here.

The new ferry terminal building, the new museum of Liverpool life and the canal link all under construction.


http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3772/ferrytmlnewmuseumcanalcww0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



.

[Cadfael]

Maybe this should have gone in the Paradise thread......

Was in town today on business and decided to bus it in as I was going to meet someone by St Nick's Church.

When I left, I thought I would have a nose down the Dock Road and was amazed at what I saw.

It's been a few years since I used to go down to the Pier Head and press my nose against the Porsche Showroom on Mann Island. All gone. Bottom of Mann Island there used to be a lovely view over the waterfront, bit of grass, seats - all gone. Now that view has been lost by another building that looks out of place.

Anyway, I'm getting old - sod all of this, I'll go to Paradise Bus Station. And could I get there? Both pedestrian pavements weren't there either side of the Dock Road meaning that it was impossible to actually get to the bus station from the bottom of James Street. Even with my knowledge of the back streets, I still couldn't make it.

Eventually flagged a Taxi and went past the building site that was once Liverpool. :PDT_Xtremez_12::PDT_Xtremez_12:

[Ged]

Yes you're getting old Cad and not looking at the pics on here often enough if you didn't know all that was gone ;)

I don't like the look of the new ferry terminal already as it will still obscure the so called 3 graces from the River which is no better than what was there before, maybe the inside will make up for it.

I often drop my girls off at Baby Cream, you want to try doing that at the weekend, that'll give anyone something to moan about, you have to go round the world and all the taxi drivers are moaning about Hanover St and the new arena 'none' rank but we're told it's all getting sorted and it has to be a massive building site in order to enjoy what will come.

[Howie]

See http://www.bigdig.liverpool.gov.uk/getting/index.asp - it may help!

[Kev]

The waterfront museum – a key “legacy” project of Capital of Culture year – could be dragged into a courtroom battle over who owns the copyright in its distinctive X-wing design. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/04/21/legal-row-erupts-over-design-rights-to-68m-museum-of-liverpool-64375-20793222/)

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[Howie]

Don’t let row delay museum
Apr 21 2008
by Alan Weston, Liverpool Daily Post

EVEN though building work is well under way on the new £68m Museum of Liverpool, the project is in danger of getting bogged down in a legal row over who owns the designs for the iconic building.

It follows the sudden and unexpected dropping of Danish architects 3XN from the project towards the end of last year. They are now in talks with lawyers and may seek damages over breach of copyright.

More (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/04/21/don-t-let-row-delay-museum-64375-20792953/)...

[RoddersUK]

Danish practice 3XN won the project in 2004, beating Daniel Libeskind and Zaha Hadid, only to be sacked by the museum last November over “performance issues”. Until now it has only criticised the client’s role in the saga.

But following BD’s recent interview (Solutions April 4) with AEW — the executive architect which replaced 3XN on the scheme — 3XN director Kim Nielsen has accused the Manchester-based practice of playing a key role in its sacking.

FULL STORY
http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=426&storycode=3111464

[RoddersUK]

Oops Double post.
Can someone please delete this.

[A.D.W]

13th May 2008.

http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/pierhead/albert/2008/bal1305081.jpg

[Kev]

:handclap:

[marky]

Panels being fitted to side of new Museum.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee262/south_liverpool/Museum_panels.jpg

[quincyg]

seems to be coming along all of a sudden doesn't it?

[Espresso Bar]

Crackin' building.

[AK1]

As much as I am in favor of the new museum I do have concerns over the 'wedges'. My opinion on this development has varied alot since the plans where originally shown, but after walking around the Pier Head area today I think they could be one of the biggest mistakes this city has ever made.
We will lose one of the most impressive views of the three graces which will only be viewable from the front or rear. Currently, they have such dominance and prowess, so to build three quite ugly buildings right in front of them seems wrong and saddens me.
Personally I think that area should simply be landscaped with seating and some sort of central feature like a fountain of statue, but I suppose it's too late now.
There seems to be a policy with this council of building on every piece of land we have but in this case I think it could scar our waterfront forever. If you couple this with the planned five star hotel next to the Liver Building, it seems that the Graces are going to be sandwiched between numerous buildings and in turn could lose their elegance and prowess on the skyline of Liverpool and become barely noticable.:(

[quincyg]

I was disappointed yesterday to see the new ferry building almost complete obliterates the view of the Cunard building. :disgust:

I'm sure a long low level building would have been better.

[AK1]

Some people seem to think that our waterfront is only seen from head on, but in actual fact more people see it from the back or side on. Very few people (visitors and residents) see it as you see it on the t.v.
As you point out, the new ferry terminal is yet another building that obscures the graces. Too much building in too small a space. I suppose we will have to wait till it's all finished before we can make a decision on how it looks but the outlook isn't good.:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[PhilipG]

Isn't that the new ferry terminal in the centre of this photo?
Seems very small to me, and it can't be positioned anywhere else.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/2561024241_d34a67c6d6_o.jpg

[Samp]

Isn't that the new ferry terminal in the centre of this photo?
Seems very small to me, and it can't be positioned anywhere else.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/2561024241_d34a67c6d6_o.jpg

That's the new museum, if you mean the building with the red girders, or have you put the wrong photo up?

[Howie]

Museum takes rebirth of Liverpool to a new level
Jun 28 2008
by Catherine Jones, Liverpool Echo

ANOTHER milestone... another great moment in the resurgence of our city.

The stunning waterfront Museum of Liverpool has taken a step nearer towards completion.

Contractors have finished the steel structure of the X-shaped site, which is due to open to the public in 2010.

More (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/06/28/museum-takes-rebirth-of-liverpool-to-a-new-level-100252-21165756/)...

[Max]

Not open till 2010!

How long does it take to complete a small building like that?

[PhilipG]

That's the new museum, if you mean the building with the red girders, or have you put the wrong photo up?

No, not the wrong photo!
I said the centre of the photo. :unibrow:
The ferry terminal building.
Rather proves my point that it's not very big. :)

[Howie]

Architect brings Mann Island waterside ‘wedges’ vision to life
Jul 1 2008
by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/article/20031701/2008/07/01/12208949.jpeg

AN IMPRESSIVE new model revealing the plans for one of Liverpool’s emerging waterfront sites was unveiled yesterday as the centrepiece of a major exhibition.

The Making of Mann Island, which opened at the Renew Rooms, in Wood Street, yesterday, explains how the controversial three granite “wedges” development has evolved in Liverpool’s World Heritage site.

The four-week exhibition will give the public a chance to see what the completed scheme will look like and understand more about how Liverpool-trained lead architect, Matt Brook and his team set about designing the development between the famed Three Graces and the Grade I-Listed Albert Dock complex.

More (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/07/01/architect-brings-mann-island-waterside-wedges-vision-to-life-64375-21205654/)...

[Kev]

19th July 2008

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3007/2684862001_3f1787e225_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3007/2684862001_3f1787e225_o.jpg)

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Kev

Well it still looks like a shoebox and probably almost as much a distraction from the wonderful Three Graces that make up Liverpool's unique waterfront as the Cloud would have been. Wonderful museum it may turn out to be but as architecture??? :PDT_Xtremez_12:

Chris

[Paul D]

It actually about the size of a football pitch and I think it'll be one of our great buildings one day.

[Ged]

Looks like a footy crowd, outside the Pumphouse ;)

[PhilipG]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/2561024241_d34a67c6d6_o.jpg

This is how it's going to look! :PDT_Piratz_26:
The foundations go quite deep, and all the ancient cellars of Mann Island have been swept away.
The removal of (IMHO) the best view of the Three Graces is going to go down in history as one of Liverpool's greatest mistakes.
On a par with demolishing the front of the Cotton Exchange and getting rid of the Overhead Railway and the Customs House.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/2694191048_4f2ba3b012_o.jpg

[chippie]

If the finish is right on the shoebox I think it will turn out to be a great future icon on the waterfront. I think the more I look at the black faced buildings the more I,m accepting them. As for the cloud Chris, that was a no no from the beginning and still is now:034:

[buggedboy]

The thing that annoyed me was that they actually moved the middle block forward to allow the three graces to peek through. Daft really because it obviously hasnt placated those who wanted that view retained, whilst compromising somewhat the logic behind the three blocks and their previously linear arrangement.

I love the wedges personally, but wish they were in their original position.

[chippie]

If they want to see the three graces let them flippin, walk round a bit and see them, God moving buildings so someone can see something makes me sick.:PDT_Piratz_26:

[lindylou]

The museum still looks like a Showcase cinema to me :neutral: - or a bowling alley - like something you find on a retail park !


I might come around to liking it more when it's completed.

[lindylou]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/2694191048_4f2ba3b012_o.jpg

I am not against the actual buildings - but why have we got to have those great lumps stuck there anyway ! :neutral:

We could have had them located somewhere else.

[PhilipG]

I am not against the actual buildings - but why have we got to have those great lumps stuck there anyway ! :neutral:

We could have had them located somewhere else.

Are they going to look just as out-of-focus when they're actually built?
We've had that view since even before the Three Graces were built.

Here's an old postcard.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1276/1364651875_21741bf8de_o.jpg

[Harry]

I hate that cliched old view.
I'm made up its going.
There are far better, brilliant views of Liverpool from many different parts of the city that never see the light of day because hackneyed old vistas like this.

[Paul D]

I think they work brilliantly on new Cityscape painting,the whole Waterfront benefits from all of the new work I think.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7027/benjcityscapedx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[PhilipG]

My main reason for saying the view from the Canning Dock is the best is because you can't see the Cunard Building, but get the bonus of the art-deco Tunnel vent tower to play off the towers and domes of the Liver and the MD&HB buildings.
And you get the fantastic reflection, which can never be achieved from the front.

I know the Cunard Building is said to be modelled after Italian palaces, but I find it boxy and quite ugly.
Funnily enough, I'd describe the ones to be built on Mann Island the same way. :shock: