http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/yo/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaname.jpg

This is my ancestors address in around 1916. Second bit says Square, I cant read the first bit.

Most of the family lived off Scotland road at this time. any ideas please?

Ta La :PDT11

Tony

Looks like 'Kafflor's Square' or something doesn't it. Doesn't ring a bell but i'll have a look later at what maps I have Tony.

Looks like 'Kafflor's Square' or something doesn't it. Doesn't ring a bell but i'll have a look later at what maps I have Tony.

Cheers Ged

My great grandad lived on Comus street, close to St Josephs.

this address is for his mother. now the family lived close together either side of Scotland road.

I have looked and looked, but nothing can i see :Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13

Have you looked at the large-scale 1890 maps (1/500 scale)?
Practically every street and court is identified on those.
Could the first letter be an "R" ("Raffles" perhaps?).

Have you looked at the large-scale 1890 maps (1/500 scale)?
Practically every street and court is identified on those.
Could the first letter be an "R" ("Raffles" perhaps?).

I will have to go and look at them Philip.

Im not clued up on them , but im sure the staff will help.

cheers :PDT11

Tony.

I can't see anything obvious on the 1905 map. could it begin with an I even?

are you sure it's definitely a Liverpool Sq?

I'm just checking through the 1841 street census list see if I can spot a similar looking square on that

I'm suggesting that the first letter is the letter H

there was someone else looking for summat very similar here (http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=15173&sid=02d8f8e5878f1b7791ea77b3fbc55df1)

I have just dug the document out. interesting look.............


http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/yo/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg

See the last line, looks like samr address. but the writing is everywhere

not sure if this can help?

there was someone else looking for summat very similar here (http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=15173&sid=02d8f8e5878f1b7791ea77b3fbc55df1)

Thats interesting as thats their area:PDT11

It looks like first word ends " IN " second looks like Square.

looks like it starts with a K as it doesn't ressemble a H in the previous text and could end in ois

what year is that document Tony? I can't find any Hogans living in a Sq around 1901. quite a few in the workhouses though.
did Stephen serve in WW1?

Hi,

There was a Kyffin Square in the Hunter Street area.

I spotted in when viewing the index to the Prints and Small prints collection in the record office.

I'll check the large scale town plans when I get the chance.

See you,

Tony

That seems like the one then Tony. Kilin Street mentioned on quincy's link is where my mam lived after they were bombed out of 33 Richmond Row in 1940/41. She was married from there in 1947. There were given a double fronted house as there were 11 of them living in there but it was far from luxury with a cockroach infested 3 inch war damage crack running down the inside wall and the youngest of them sleeping in sideboard drawers and a handcart. The polytech was built on that land in 1957, it's now the JMU on Byrom st.

Hi,

There was a Kyffin Square in the Hunter Street area.

I spotted in when viewing the index to the Prints and Small prints collection in the record office.

I'll check the large scale town plans when I get the chance.

See you,

Tony

my money is on this one looking at the style of the text before the actual address, good luck

Looks like 'Kafflor's Square' or something doesn't it. Doesn't ring a bell but i'll have a look later at what maps I have Tony.


It always looked like starting with a 'K' to me and having two 'Fs' in it. :)

It always looked like starting with a 'K' to me and having two 'Fs' in it. :)

there's 3 loops there - it looks like 3 'fs'

maybe the registrar had a stutter

I have a stutter, pack it in lol:unibrow:

you lot have been busy, great stuff you have come up with/

Thanks to all:PDT11

The document is from 1916.

cheers

Tony

Kyffin Square was on Christian Street, between Pontack Lane and Myrtle View. This is an extract from the 1938 directory.

http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/webpics/kyffinsquare-1938.jpg

This map is from 1908 - I think that "C" is the entrance to Kyffin Square.

http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/webpics/kyffinsquare-1908.jpg

This is the 1890 map - Kyffin Square is court no. 8.
http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/webpics/kyffinsquare-1890.jpg

Well done Tony, your maps are great. And here's the little bugger giving us all the trouble....

Taken on 2nd April 1938 by the city engineers department to mark its last legs due to new corporation flats being planned. However, they were never built on this side of Christian Street. Pic-LRO.




http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2121/kyffinsqoffchristianst2hs6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2121/kyffinsqoffchristianst2hs6.68ee3c53a5.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=140&i=kyffinsqoffchristianst2hs6.jpg)





.

glad that's solved. some census forms are a pain to read.

was just going through my files and found this pic I may as well use the same thread.
I've always assumed this to be 53 Ullet Rd, but the squiggle after the number is putting me off.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/quincyg/Picture1088.jpg

the squiggle has the same flow as his letter R , maybe its Riddel Road.

the squiggle has the same flow as his letter R , maybe its Riddel Road.

can't find a Riddel Rd listed for Liverpool on my 1967 street listing. nor does one show up online anyway.
thanks for the suggestion though

glad that's solved. some census forms are a pain to read.

was just going through my files and found this pic I may as well use the same thread.
I've always assumed this to be 53 Ullet Rd, but the squiggle after the number is putting me off.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/quincyg/Picture1088.jpg

If it was Ullet wouldn't the 'u' be a capital letter?
It looks like Pullet, but I don't think that's right.
Try checking the surname in a contemporary street directory.

If it was Ullet wouldn't the 'u' be a capital letter?
It looks like Pullet, but I don't think that's right.
Try checking the surname in a contemporary street directory.

I can't as she was in service at the time.

Well done Tony, your maps are great. And here's the little bugger giving us all the trouble....

Taken on 2nd April 1938 by the city engineers department to mark its last legs due to new corporation flats being planned. However, they were never built on this side of Christian Street. Pic-LRO.




http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2121/kyffinsqoffchristianst2hs6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2121/kyffinsqoffchristianst2hs6.68ee3c53a5.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=140&i=kyffinsqoffchristianst2hs6.jpg)





.

Ged thats amazing :handclap: thanks so much.brilliant im well chuffed:handclap:

Kyffin Square was on Christian Street, between Pontack Lane and Myrtle View. This is an extract from the 1938 directory.

http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/webpics/kyffinsquare-1938.jpg

This map is from 1908 - I think that "C" is the entrance to Kyffin Square.

http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/webpics/kyffinsquare-1908.jpg

This is the 1890 map - Kyffin Square is court no. 8.
http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/webpics/kyffinsquare-1890.jpg

Thank you Tony:PDT_Piratz_26::PDT11 you are a star:handclap:

Like you've said mate, it's always worth it to ask. Glad you're pleased. :PDT11

Well done to Tony for placing it as that was helpful to me too.

You guys have served a double ace for me:PDT_Piratz_26:

I never knew where Myrtle Gardens was either, I do now:)

Here is the story of my great great grandma, get the hankies out

My great great Grandmother Winifred Grady married a Thomas Flaherty on 30th September 1877, at St Joseph's, Grosvenor Street. Now in 1898 the family was living at 6 Myrtle View, off Christian street. It was 20th December and Winifred was cooking christmas puddings on the fire. Her brother had come home from sea and asked Winifred to come to a local public house to celebrate his return. Winifred was not a big drinker, but had a glass of wine. On her return home she fell asleep in a chair next to the fire, and her dress caught alight. somehow she was found, but was badly burnt. having no money they had to take her through the streets to the Workhouse on Brownlow hill for treatment.sadly Winifred died the following day.

Her husband Thomas had some kind of breakdown after her death, and the children where taken into an orphanage. Their daughter Mary( my great grandmother) took a job as a servant to a sea captain. she earnt enough to look after her sick father, and she went about getting all the children back. she managed to get them all apart from her brother Thomas, who remained in an Orphanage, and sadly died there in 1903 aged 12.

I really admire my great grandma Mary, she suffered so much heartache, but never complained. Her husband died in ww1, just 2 months after her father and 4 months after her youngest sister.. she never remarried and brought her 4 children up alone. her son Bernard(my grandad) would die in WW2, her other son Thomas died in his early forties. The family say that Mary only cried 3 times in her life, when she lost her Husband John and her two boys.

She died in 1978 aged 94, I remember going to see her in Scottie road, hair in a bun shawl on shoulders, still a Mary Ellen to the end. she was amazing, and she took no nonsense, she could put the fear into many a man who tried to cross her or hurt one of her own. pure class.

I have the Coroners report for the death of Winifred, it reads.......

Liverpool Coroner's Inquest Register
347 COR/L/1/1
Entry; 937

Date December 23rd, 1898
Name of deceased: Winifred Flaherty
Address: 6 Myrtle View
Place of death: Liverpool Workhouse
Date of Death: December 21st, 1898.
Age: 39
Finding of the Jury: Burns Accidentally Recieved.

I also have the admission entry for Liverpool Work house, it reads.....

Liverpool Workhouse Admission Register.
353 SEL 18
Number: 1888
Date and day of week when admitted: Tuesday, December 20th, 1898
Name: Flaherty, Winifred
Age; 39
(checked off as a woman, Temporarily disabled)
Of what religious persuasion: R.C.
Where located in the house: Surgical
(Additional Info): Wife of Thomas Flaherty, Labourer, R.C.
Where slept last night: 6 Myrtle View
Whether ever recieved parochial relief before: No

Winifred was buried at Ford Cemetery in a public grave on 24th December 1898.

If you go to the cemetery now, the public graves are a field. no headstones, but a least they remain untouched.

Two of my great great Aunts, Catherine and Mary Grady where money lenders, They both lived on Christian street. Maybe i should not mention them :shock:

myrtle gardens was renovated into nice flats around 1983 dunno what they are like now but i think it was one of the 1st attempts in updating an historic site for modern use

Gnomie, It's amazing how you have discovered your family story - such a sad but proud tale :handclap:

Sad story Tony. What with your lady rellie falling in Kew Street and this lady, they've had some bad luck. I think you are confusing the two here though. Myrtle View and Myrtle Gardens which was Myrtle Street are not the same and are some miles apart. Incidentally, the local public house you mention may well have been the Myrtle Vaults which stood on the corner of Holly Street (where I lived until 6 years old) near Myrtle View and may be seen on Tony's street map. A picture of it on fire in 1969 is on my website - b&w post war pics page.

Myrtle View 1927. LRO.


http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8977/myrtleview1927lroff7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8977/myrtleview1927lroff7.6069852689.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=98&i=myrtleview1927lroff7.jpg)




.

Hi Ged

Myrtle View it is, I once lived by Myrtle gardens for a while.:)

These photos are great Ged, im stunned.

Think i will pass me genealogy over to you mate as your finding me so much :PDT11

very appreciated

Tony

These are the tenements built on the site of the brewery shown on Tony's map. The myrtle Vaults pub was on the bottom corner with Christian St.

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1632/hollystfreddype4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1632/hollystfreddype4.3de587f7da.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=505&i=hollystfreddype4.jpg)

This is the landings side of that tenement block. The landings faced/were side on to Christian St and the side wall of the Myrtle Vaults pub can be seen in the foreground.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/179/christianjp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/179/christianjp2.c93c877b04.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=175&i=christianjp2.jpg)



.

These are the tenements built on the site of the brewery shown on Tony's map. The myrtle Vaults pub was on the bottom corner with Christian St.

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1632/hollystfreddype4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1632/hollystfreddype4.3de587f7da.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=505&i=hollystfreddype4.jpg)

This is the landings side of that tenement block. The landings faced/were side on to Christian St and the side wall of the Myrtle Vaults pub can be seen in the foreground.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/179/christianjp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/179/christianjp2.c93c877b04.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=175&i=christianjp2.jpg)



.


Well will you look at that :)

Fantastic Ged.

How old are those flats? are they Myrtle View?

cheers for the help on this.

Tony

Gnomie a great read and it is amazing to find out how our parents ( great, great etc.) lived.
I just wish my family came from around there so Ged could help me too, but he's too selfish to come from Old Swan !
Well done again Gnomie and Ged.
Martin

Tony, those tenements were built in the mid 1920s, railing landings before the brick wall ones became the fashion in the 30s. They are addressed as Holly Street but would have existed alongside Myrtle View instead of the Myrtle brewery as shown on Tony's map above.

Martin, Gerard Street was one of the worst inner city slum areas during the time of the courts, in fact Britain's first health office, Dr. Duncan (born in Seel St) was assigned to this and the Vauxhall area in general. Because of this, lots of City engineers dept photographs were taken to record the area just prior to demolition so lots still exist in the LRO so I suppose i'm lucky in that lots of the area I was researching was available.

However, throw a few street names at me and the next time i'm in the LRO i'll have a look for you and that goes for anyone else as well.

However, throw a few street names at me and the next time i'm in the LRO i'll have a look for you and that goes for anyone else as well.

Thanks Ged, you are too kind.
Anywhere around St Oswald Street, Prescot Road ( although you have already supplied me with 2 for there, thanks again ), Queens Drive ( Stoneycroft ), Fitzgerald Road... Oh I could go on and on.

Spotted a great one of around Swan Street ( from around 1920 ) in the Merseymart a couple of weeks ago, My Mum was born and brought up there,
although her house has been demolished now ! :034:

Martin

Have you contacted them for a glossy copy?. They must have it in their archives then. The Liverpool Echo have a fair old few too, they see the light of day now and again when one of their publications hits the shops. There was a whole week of old Liverpool pics in the Echo's centre pages a couple of weeks ago, Saturday nights flashback feature by Peter Grant is also a good source.

Sad story Tony. What with your lady rellie falling in Kew Street and this lady, they've had some bad luck.


Like most though Ged. i bet all families have sad tales. its sad to here about my ancestors in this way, but it is good to know about them , and that the stories passed down is like remembering them. When i heard the story of the fire i looked for death records in the workhouse and it was there,just as the family had said.