I heard recently that they were gonna do a show here. Any truth?

My boyf put a post on the Time Team website, and someone said it had been in the echo recently....

It was in the Echo but they said it was between here and somewhere else where they'd choose to do the dig,I've heard nothing since.

oh right, thankyou for the post sir.

couldnt get anything out of the time team mob

nevermind

we will have to wait and see

We asked Time Team to come down to the Williamson Tunnels and gave them the full blurb on them, saying that we'd love them to uncover something that hasn't been seen in 150 years. They gave a replay back and said 'they're not old enough'!!!!:rolleyes:

that is so rubbish!!!!!!

excuse us for not all being interested in roman coins and bricks!

We asked Time Team to come down to the Williamson Tunnels and gave them the full blurb on them, saying that we'd love them to uncover something that hasn't been seen in 150 years. They gave a replay back and said 'they're not old enough'!!!!:rolleyes:


We were all wondering why the time team have never escavated the tunnels when we all went there,I can't believe they say they're not old enough the tunnels have such an interesting story to tell.:disgust:

there's remains of a neolithic settlement under the convent(or around) on Olive Mount.

Suppose they have to wait for the land to be between developments to get access don't they? Mind, they could dig the garden up....

TIME Team presenter Tony Robinson last night revealed his TV programme will come to Liverpool as part of the Capital of Culture celebrations.

The popular archaeology show will record an episode in the city later in the year to unearth the story of how Liverpool began.

Mr Robinson, who was in Merseyside to give a lecture at Liverpool University, said: “It will be Time Team’s gift to Liverpool for 2008. We are working very closely with the Liverpool Culture Company. We will look at how Liverpool was born.”

The former Blackadder actor, who played hapless character Baldrick, said he could not reveal details about where the dig would take place, but hinted it would be along the waterfront.

This year, one of the biggest archaeological digs in Liverpool’s history has begun to clear the way for construction of the city’s controversial new X-museum.
continues (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=popular-tv-show-to-dig-up-history-of-liverpool%26method=full%26objectid=19324347%26site id=50061-name_page.html)...

Tony Robinson, cheeky person, " it is Time Teams gift ".
Always amazes me the way they dig up bits of pottery and class it
as roman, I would love them to dig someting up and it said on it," made in Japan". As for the Tunnels not being old enough, what about the progs
they did on digging up the Spitfire, or the WW1 trenches.. To be honest
a lot of the progs bore me stiff as they are all the same...

Good stuff, but they should have come earlier before they dug up and filled in the old dock on Canning Place, the Manchester Dock and Kings Dock :rolleyes:

I don't know if it's still the case but at one stage they were thinking of scanning to find the moat of the castle. It was only filled in with rubble so should still be there.
Julie

Tony Robinson, cheeky person, " it is Time Teams gift ".
Always amazes me the way they dig up bits of pottery and class it
as roman, I would love them to dig someting up and it said on it," made in Japan". As for the Tunnels not being old enough, what about the progs
they did on digging up the Spitfire, or the WW1 trenches.. To be honest
a lot of the progs bore me stiff as they are all the same...

Hi steveb

Roman pottery though is pretty distinctive, samian ware (the shiny red clay pottery that they made) or castor ware (pottery with a black surface). In addition, such pots are often found with coins which can date the find.

Chris

Hi steveb

Roman pottery though is pretty distinctive, samian ware (the shiny red clay pottery that they made) or castor ware (pottery with a black surface). In addition, such pots are often found with coins which can date the find.

Chris

Hi Chris
yes I know about samian ware, just my personal opinion, be interesting
to see the prog when shown...

Just saw the advert after the news tonight.

Time Team Special: The Lost Dock Of Liverpool,

As the new European Capital of Culture rockets toward a new future, Tony Robinson and the team delve into its past and uncover how this city catapulted itself onto the international trading stage


Time Team, Series 1, is next broadcast on TV:Mon 21 Apr 2008 21:00, Channel 4

Thanks for posting that Broliv - have been waiting for it!

Preview clip here:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/article1025618.ece

cheers for the post, wow! i'll be watching!

No Probs Guys, I didn't realise time team were at the pier head. Looks good tho!

darn i missed this. will it get repeated?

A shame that Time Team couldn't be bothered to get off their arses to excavate the Williamsons's Tunnels.

Their reply to a letter? 'They're not old enough'!!!

darn i missed this. will it get repeated?

It hasn't been on yet has it?

No you havn't missed it Gnomie. It's on Monday.

It hasn't been on yet has it?

Yaaay :PDT11

No you havn't missed it Gnomie. It's on Monday.

Double Yaay :PDT_Piratz_26:

Make it a tripple Yeah!

TV team’s peek into city’s pioneer dock

Apr 19 2008 by Mike Chapple, Liverpool Daily Post

LIVERPOOL is to take centre stage in the biggest archaeological dig which TV’s popular Time Team have been involved in.

On Monday, Channel 4 broadcasts The Lost Dock of Liverpool which documents the unearthing of the world’s first commercial wet dock, a creation which turned what had been a tiny fishing village into one of the greatest ports on the planet.

Tony Robinson and the team joined the massive 42-acre £1bn Liverpool One project as they uncovered a similar state of redevelopment 300 years ago when the place was just a seven-street (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9059) settlement sitting on the muddy pool which gave it its name.

The completion of the so-called Old Dock by engineer Thomas Steers in 1715, which converted the pool into a wet dock controlled by floodgates, changed all that. It set the pattern for future dock systems worldwide, helping to turn Liverpool into the second city of the British Empire.

The broadcaster, actor, and comedian told the Daily Post: “We were filming there last autumn and what was fun was whereas we’re usually three days on site and then just go away, in Liverpool we kept on returning over a period of about two and a half months so we got a very vivid picture of what was being done.”

This centred on what was Canning Place, built over the original Old Dock when it was filled in during 1826 as the port expanded.

“We saw the dig through the layers of 20th century garbage, to the Victorian tenements until we reached what we were looking for,” said the man who formerly played Blackadder’s cohort Baldrick through the ages. “I think two of the most dramatic things was being able to see the homes of the dock workers of the 19th century and to ultimately find the dock on the pool that led to the name Liverpool.”

One more memorable feature of this Time Team Special is that, unlike other “digs”, a significant part of what has been exposed will not be covered over again.

He said: “In this case, the most spectacular feature will be left behind because the retaining wall of the original old dock, I believe, is to be used as part of the new visitors’ centre.

“Everyone today will be able to appreciate how important it really was.”

THE Lost Dock of Liverpool is on Channel 4 at 9pm on Monday.

mikechapple

Related Links:

Liverpool Old Dock and Custom House (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2723)

Liverpool's Original 7 Streets (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9059)

I will record and upload this to my google video account for our members who live over the pond.

Here's a few others I uploaded you may find interesting if you missed them
first time.

A history of liverpool.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2412306875450662576&hl=en

Britain's Favourite View Liverpool

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yuvgGDbO7qU

It was going good until they mentioned "the slave trade" and showed Nelsons statue with the French Prisoners of war in shackles.Oh dear!!
People not from L/pool may now think we have a statue of a slave?:PDT_Xtremez_42:

A facinating programme so far..... :handclap::handclap:

I did expect better I have to admit - there just didn't seem to be any 'goings on' like the normal time team, but rather they were just guests without any diggings.

The thing that annoys me the most is that someone in the history of time, knew that these docks and buildings were there yet for a brown envelope, they were forgotten about and allowed to be built on.

Tis indeed a shame Cad, however, thankfully the ropewalks area has survived as a result of the development of this dock.

Novascotia, how interesting is that little area? Sadly dug up and soon to be buried beneath the apartments......

Liverpool had everything first, before any other city, therefore it was ours to loose first too, shame.....

I did expect better I have to admit - there just didn't seem to be any 'goings on' like the normal time team, but rather they were just guests without any diggings.

The thing that annoys me the most is that someone in the history of time, knew that these docks and buildings were there yet for a brown envelope, they were forgotten about and allowed to be built on.

I imagine that when the dock was built on, it was in a pretty bad way - an open and redundant sewer. I can't see anybody needing to bribe anybody to get rid of it. Different attitudes for different times.

I am sure the new Customs House was seen as a great move forward. You cannot blame the past for not relying so heavily on history for their sense of well-being and importance. The damage at the time of construction was significant. Rather less this time round and there will be an exhibition centre including what remains have been exposed, protected by steps that lead to the park on the site of the old headland.

Just watched, thought it was great but would liked it to be on longer

It was going good until they mentioned "the slave trade" and showed Nelsons statue with the French Prisoners of war in shackles.Oh dear!!
People not from L/pool may now think we have a statue of a slave?:PDT_Xtremez_42:

Yeah, I mentioned that to my hubby when it came on...duh. don't these programmes have researchers?

I did expect better I have to admit - there just didn't seem to be any 'goings on' like the normal time team, but rather they were just guests without any diggings.

The thing that annoys me the most is that someone in the history of time, knew that these docks and buildings were there yet for a brown envelope, they were forgotten about and allowed to be built on.

The Old Dock was 100 years old when it was filled in.

What it missed out...

The Old Dock made Liverpool a big port by the standards of the time. Alongside London, Lancaster and Bristol. What propelled Liverpool forwards as a rich major world city was:

The naturally deep water River Mersey - which accommodated the increasingly large steam ships of the 1800s.
The steam engine - which would operate the locks and "impound" the docks to deepen them at neap tides to accommodate very large ships. Also, to operate heavy lifting equipment with steam trains taking cargo swiftly to and from other inland towns and cities.

The deep river and steam engines propelled the city and port forwards giving very fast ship turn-arounds. Ports accessed by shallow rivers, like Lancaster and Bristol fell behind being dwarfed by Liverpool. The interconnected enclosed dock system was extended to be the largest in the world. The interconnected docks system meant ships could move from dock to dock to load and unload at any time, without entering the tidal river. The system on the Liverpool side was 7 miles long and about 2 miles long on the Wirral peninsular.

Well, I was so proud watching it - all those firsts for us and all those magnificent buildings!

The city was not built mainly on slavery and it was wrong to have emphasised that. Liverpool dominated the slave trade but it wasn't key to the city. Slavery was a small part of the overall trade.

They even mentioned one merchant who dabbled in slaves, yet was instrumental in all aspects of the sugar trade as the main business.

Liverpool's prime trade after the old Dock was built was salt from the Cheshire mines. It was easy to get to Liverpool via the Mersey flats barges. Hence Salthouse Dock. Liverpool was built on salt.

Maybe there's the odd mistake or wrong emphasis but I think that looking at it from the view point of the rest of the country we came out fantastically well and if I lived eleswhere, I'd want to visit here.

Hope we get to see this particular program here! Time Team is on the 'Living Channel' for us but don't know how far behind we are with programs!:PDT11

Maybe there's the odd mistake or wrong emphasis but I think that looking at it from the view point of the rest of the country we came out fantastically well and if I lived eleswhere, I'd want to visit here.

They could have had a graphic that superimposed the Old Dock onto the existing city. It wasn't clear where it was. It would be easy to think it was Canning Dock or Pier Head by the air shots.

They never even had an establishing shot of St.George's Hall, just the steps - the European Architectural Commission stated the hall was one of the most significant buildings built in Europe in the past 200 years - the world's first air conditioned building based on the Parthenon - none of this was mentioned.

The Time Team were only observers as Oxford Uni were doing the digs.

It came out fine and positive and informative about the city for once. Except that everyone else will think only slavery founded the city - which is very wrong.

The statement, "the city was not constrained by its past", when observing the city's meteoric rise. Look at the NIMBYs we have here today and why things don't get done. Far too many are obsessed with the past to the point it hinders the future.

Quote: "They never even had an establishing shot of St.George's Hall, just the steps - the European Architectural Commission stated the hall was one of the most significant buildings built in Europe in the past 200 years - the world's first air conditioned building based on the Parthenon - none of this was mentioned."

Well, it was a programme about the Forgotten Dock not St Georges Hall

Quote: "They never even had an establishing shot of St.George's Hall, just the steps - the European Architectural Commission stated the hall was one of the most significant buildings built in Europe in the past 200 years - the world's first air conditioned building based on the Parthenon - none of this was mentioned."

Well, it was a programme about the Forgotten Dock not St Georges Hall

Why did they have a slot on St. George's Hall? If they are going to do it, do it right. The building is unique.

Why did they have a slot on St. George's Hall? If they are going to do it, do it right. The building is unique.

It was to emphasise how wealthy the city was that they could build such grand public buildings. They were just stood on the steps with Tony Robinson marvelling in it, yet they didnt actually show what he thought was so grand, just some pillars.

Why did they have a slot on St. George's Hall? If they are going to do it, do it right. The building is unique.

yes, I agree. if they are going to mention the hall - well show it in it's full splendour please. Showing just the steps - what's the point in that - steps could be anywhere.

I'm not too worried about the missing out of St Georges Hall. It was built nearly 150 years after the first dock anyway... and when you have iconic buildings such as the three graces - which have more a visual impact, you really don't need much else.

Remember, it was about the docks not general Liverpool history, we'd be here forever if we all started saying what should have been included.

They could have just pulled away including a shot of the full hall though - or an ariel view panning over it briefly. I know the subject was not about the hall - but seeing that it was mentioned they could have showed a full shot even very briefly.

They could have just pulled away including a shot of the full hall though - or an ariel view panning over it briefly. I know the subject was not about the hall - but seeing that it was mentioned they could have showed a full shot even very briefly.

Exactly. The points I mentioned could have been in the narrative. Just a few words that puts the building into perspective.

We finally get some interesting coverage of Liverpool yet the main thrust of this thread is identifying negativity?
I was fascinated, and wanted more. Yes, I'd have loved coverage of St George's Hall as well but I'm satisfied with what they got into the 60 minutes.

I thought it was brilliant. Not much new to us learned locals but a great advertisement of the city. You probably can't mention the docks without mentioning slavery but yes a pity about the Nelson statue being confused with it, Franny Carlyle would have put them right and a pity the minton floor of the Georges Hall wasn't captured - even a still from a book would have done - it looked like an advert for a laminate flooring company :)

Overall, fantastic views and the close ups of Nova Scotia were great. :handclap:

I enjoyed it and agree it was a good advert for the city, but I was expecting more computer graphics, and was disappointed with what few we had.
There is a great painting of Mann Island which could have been used.

I taped it, and edited the adverts out as I was watching it.
There were loads, which means it was highly rated by the advertisers.

I'm lucky. the adverts are removed before i get it.
I thought it was quite well done and had a lot of info in the short time.
Pity they showed that statue giving the impression it was slaves chained up. Someone needs to tell them what it really is.

"Canning Place is the most historic square in Liverpool, less because of the great name it bears than for the mingled memories ever stirred by mention of the time-honoured term "The Old Dock".
Where the tides of traffic now roll to and fro in Canning Place, once, stealing under its bridges, came down a little stream through the rushes to meet the waters of the old Pool. Here in time was founded the first dock, the dock which gave the town the fame of possessing the largest enclosed water area in the world. Many a noble enterprise has since been inaugurated along the river front; today a chain of splendid docks link Liverpool from south to north, but, while Liverpool lives, regret will live for the blunder which, in filling up the Old Dock, destroyed Liverpool's first historic shelter for ships."
Michael O'Mahony: Liverpool Ways and Byways 1930.

Well, the programme certainly was a spectacular PR triumph for 'brave new Liverpool' and, as such, can only be applauded after the years of negative press we've had to put up with. Ought to have the tourists flocking in to see the real thing.

I loved most of it. It was particularly thrilling to see the stones of the Old Dock seeing the light of day once more. Also the fascinating sight of the old river wall and the Nova Scotia dwellings. Also to learn that some, at least, of the Old Dock will be available to view in the new visitor's centre. I nontheless consider that this could have been a golden opportunity to open the whole thing up as a splendid water feature in the midst of the new development. The form of the Old Dock seems to have been perfectly preserved in the street plan when Steers House was sitting on top of it. Or have I missed something?

What else is to be preserved? Grosvenor has a pretty poor reputation here in Chester for historic preservation, having cheerfully trashed the largest and most complete Roman bath house/gymnasium complex- ""with walls up to two hundred feet long, standing to twelve feet in height"- ever found in Britain when they erected their ghastly shopping precinct.

Some gripes...

Their reference to the 'Liver Pool'. I know this was, arguably, where the city's name came from, but all historical references I have ever seen call it merely to 'The Pool".

As ably pointed out in previous posts, the use of the Exchange Flags statue to portray an African in chains- as opposed to the Frenchman or Spaniard he doubtlessly was- was just lazy when much more accurate material was easily available.

Am I alone in thinking that the enormous effort and expense evidently put into that model of the Pool and Old Dock with its silly little toy boats was somewhat pointless and something of a waste of time? Its eventual findings were that a) the Pool had silted by the start of the 18th century- there wasn't much water in it at low tide and there as a bit more at high, and b) the dock was designed so that ships could float level with the quayside. Wow. Surely a simple computer graphic could have done the job better and freed up more time for looking at the real thing?

I would imagine that very much more material was shot- the crew visited the sites several times over a couple of months- but was ruthlessly edited out to make a neat hour long programme. This seems a pity, with so much history and archaeology to cover, a real 'Time Team Special' should have been at least twice as long, or perhaps split into two episodes.

It didn't make it clear where the Old Dock exactly was (apart from showing a 16th century map, and didn't mention what happened to the site of the dock after it was filled in.
Yes, Steers Hours, etc., was built on the site in the 1960s, but there was no mention of the huge Custom House built on the site in the 1840s, which had extensive cellars, seen very clearly on post WW2 photos.
Nor did it mention how much of the original dock walls had been removed for those cellars of the Custom House.

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/customsaerial.jpg

The foundations of the Customs House clearly showing form of the Old Dock, early 1950s

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/customshouse.jpg

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/canning.jpg

Canning Place, early 1960s

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/steersjune04.JPG

Steers House on site of Old Dock, June 2004

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/steers2.JPG

Nice pics Steve. You haven't got one of the Dolphin pub that was in the Steers House complex have you, I worked in Foster House next door to it for a short while.

I can't remember did they show any of the Herdman paintings of the Old Dock. He did quite a few as I recall. They are well reproduced in Kay Parrots book on Herdman.

"the city was not constrained by its past",

We are locked in the now; between the condemning past and the unknowable future

We are locked in the now; between the ****ing past and the unknowable future

This looks very odd - I meant to say Dam-ing past

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/customsaerial.jpg

The foundations of the Customs House clearly showing form of the Old Dock, early 1950s





Great, clear picture. Where did you get it?

The city was not built mainly on slavery and it was wrong to have emphasised that. Liverpool dominated the slave trade but it wasn't key to the city. Slavery was a small part of the overall trade.

They even mentioned one merchant who dabbled in slaves, yet was instrumental in all aspects of the sugar trade as the main business.


And who grew the sugar?

Slavery involves much more than just the physical trade in slaves.

Without going on tooooooooooo much about slavery there are people who have lived all their lives in Liverpool and grew up with the misconceptions and still believe that slaves were chained up in Exchange square and sold there etc etc. which as Ged put it my cousin Franny Carlyle would be totally outraged at this. They showed Nelsons statue and the French prisoners of war whilst talking about slavery giving the impression the statue depicts slaves in chains totally misleading. The Georges hall was breezed over no mention pf Harvey Lonsdale Elms, and they only threw in Thomas Steers name once linking him with the dock briefly.I was totally disappointed with the programme.

Debz and Zappa

I have to say for a 'special', it wasn't much. I only watched it for the Liverpool connection and there wasn't anyone who lifted a spade! (apart from Phil who looks like he could with a bloody good wash and a hair cut!)

You wonder what else we have under Liverpool which has been 'forgotten' about and will only come to the surface once another large building is knocked down.

Exactly what I thought Kevin!

[QUOTE=kevin;127685]We finally get some interesting coverage of Liverpool yet the main thrust of this thread is identifying negativity?
QUOTE]

The Time team Special I feel was very positive for Liverpool, which makes a welcome change.

It also was better without the Academic Muppit in the striped jumper swanning around.

The next dig is in North Wales, ( they are looking for a piece of Flint!!)

I have just watched the Time Team programme on the Lost dock of Liverpool,immediately after watching it I logged on to read how the regulars felt about it. Shytalk and Ged mirrored my thoughts,Tony Robinson did'nt matter,Liverpool spoke for her self.Just watching those images flash by on the screen was marvellous,it did'nt need a sound track,the music of the city was in its' people and the wonderful buildings. I feel like an ex-pat down here,a bit cut off from the current life in the city,that programme made me feel so homesick. I am a son of that beautiful old pile,the different nationalities that created the fabric of that town course through my veins, slave owner and slave, oppressed and oppressor,we are the sum of its years,there is no other city like it ,and no other people like us. Liverpool I love you.
BrianD

Yes, I was bursting with pride too Brian.

Nice pics Steve. You haven't got one of the Dolphin pub that was in the Steers House complex have you, I worked in Foster House next door to it for a short while.

Sorry Ged, I haven't. Just something else that I should have photographed but didn't..

Here's another of the remains of the Customs House dating from as late as 1954, over a decade after it was bombed. The cellars don't seem to go down anywhere near as deep as that hole we saw on the programme. One wonders, therefore, how much damage its construction would have caused to the Old Dock beneath?

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/customsfoundations54.jpg

I found both this and the aerial view above online somewhere ages ago but can't for the life of me remember where now.

I heard it said that the interior of the Customs House was, like the Museum, gutted by incendiaries but that its main structure was basically ok and could also have been restored. What we see in the pictures is deliberate demolition, not bomb damage. Can anyone confirm?

I have just watched the Time Team programme on the Lost dock of Liverpool,immediately after watching it I logged on to read how the regulars felt about it. Shytalk and Ged mirrored my thoughts,Tony Robinson did'nt matter,Liverpool spoke for her self.Just watching those images flash by on the screen was marvellous,it did'nt need a sound track,the music of the city was in its' people and the wonderful buildings. I feel like an ex-pat down here,a bit cut off from the current life in the city,that programme made me feel so homesick. I am a son of that beautiful old pile,the different nationalities that created the fabric of that town course through my veins, slave owner and slave, oppressed and oppressor,we are the sum of its years,there is no other city like it ,and no other people like us. Liverpool I love you.
BrianD


Lovely words Brian. :handclap: I too am very proud of Liverpool :)

Those Customs house 'cellars' look like ground floor rooms to me :unibrow::ninja:

You may be right.

Just re-watched it 'on demand'. There was quite a bit on St George's Hall actually - in retrospect it seems that most of the program was actually about repeating what had previously been said (after every commercial, Tony would repeat what they were doing in Liverpool). There was so little by way of explaining about the imports and exports (cheshire salt, cotton, tobacco (and the Stanley Dock) which would have all been relevant to Steers' dock by way of evolution.

Like I said though, we could spend hours saying what wasn't included, i'm just glad they made a decent programme of it - even though it wasn't spectacular.

yes, I agree with that. I was quite pleased with the program overall.

Not seen that photo before.

The main structure was demolishd in 1948.
With indecent haste.
It was said "to provide employment", and the Government gave subsidies (or compensation) for demolished buildings, although it's now agreed that it could have been rebuilt.
I still think they're the cellars (and foundations) we're looking at.
The tops of the walls seem level with the surrounding streets, etc.
Besides, wouldn't the ground floor rooms have been bigger?

The rooms do look small but looking at those bollardy things running along Canning Place at Street level, these rooms don't look to be below them?

Yet when you look at the street in the foreground, the rectangle room next to it is definitely above ground but the rooms the other side of it could be below? A bit of an optical illusion.

I still think they're the cellars (and foundations) we're looking at.


You could be right. The building was constructed when it wasn't unusual to have cellars which finished slightly above ground level. It was necessary if you wanted to install a window to get some light in there - gas and electric not being as efficient as they now are.

Are those the same cellars that i photographed just before they started digging up Chavasse Park?

One wonders, therefore, how much damage its construction would have caused to the Old Dock beneath?

The archaeology of the old dock turned up breaks in the wall and remains of compacted earth ramps into the dock. I am not sure whether this was for filling the dock up (unlikely, why not just tip it over the side?) or for construction of foundations or cellars. Certainly a lot of the wall was lost.


What we see in the pictures is deliberate demolition, not bomb damage. Can anyone confirm?

I read (I think in the World Heritage Site listing) that it was standing but structurally unsound. It caused quite a shock when it was bombed - "the Customs House went last night...." it seems to have been much-missed?

Are those the same cellars that i photographed just before they started digging up Chavasse Park?

The cellars under Chavasse Park were all outside of the dock and must be the buildings facing the dock in the picture.

I think it would have been quite usual in a grand civic building to have a raised ground floor so that the building was entered up 'grand' steps (like George's Hall). The arches and small rooms also suggest that the walls supported a floor for bigger spaces above. Question is, can anyone convince themselves that the semi-circular shapes are stairs down into another basement? This shape would have been stronger in brickwork than a modern rectangular stair.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohiKml6_ctM

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6mWJj0yWp8

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kraxg4zxzh8

Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4NcwFlk970

Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTP-AaqiJoE

.

Sorry Ged, I haven't. Just something else that I should have photographed but didn't..

Here's another of the remains of the Customs House dating from as late as 1954, over a decade after it was bombed. The cellars don't seem to go down anywhere near as deep as that hole we saw on the programme. One wonders, therefore, how much damage its construction would have caused to the Old Dock beneath?

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/customsfoundations54.jpg

I found both this and the aerial view above online somewhere ages ago but can't for the life of me remember where now.

I heard it said that the interior of the Customs House was, like the Museum, gutted by incendiaries but that its main structure was basically ok and could also have been restored. What we see in the pictures is deliberate demolition, not bomb damage. Can anyone confirm?

I think i've seen another,closer, pic' somewhere, but can anyone identify the statue in this photo? It' in the middle of the open piece of land. (Thomas Steers maybe?) Also, I wonder what happened to it:disgust:

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/olddock.jpg

W Herdman: Entrance to the Old Dock

"From the draw-bridge, we see, towards the river, the gut or entrance into the basin from the river; and that the gut or basin accomodates both this and the Salt-house dock. Looking up the dock, we observe the Custom-house facing us at the other end. This first-constructed dock has been made about 75 years. Its walls are of brick. It is 200 yards long; of irregular breadth, but which may average 80 yards; with an area of 16,832 sqare yards.
This dock is a receptacle for West India and African ships, as it is contiguous to the Warehouses of the Merchants concerned in those branches of Commerce. Also Irish traders and vessels from Portugal, Spain and the Mediterranean. The surrounding houses are altogether public-houses, or shops with such wearing apparel &c as are most commonly wanted by seamen. Adjoining the gates of this dock is the place where fish are most commonly landed from the different fishing boats from Ireland, Scotland and the more adjacent neighbouring coasts.
As we proceed along the dock we observe a great many small vessels, chiefly sloops with one mast each, and which are coasting traders, mostly from the northern coast, extending to Scotland; as may be observed by painted boards, hung upon the most conspicuous parts of the rigging, denoting the places they are bound to. This is generally a busy, crowded place.
... Crossing one of the bridges, we are upon Man's Island; all artificial ground, raised from the sea. The left direction leads us to the quay where the Dublin Packets lie, with their packet-houses and offices facing them; which buildings are called Nova Scotia".
W Moss: The Liverpool Guide, 1796.

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/customsold.jpg

A View of the Customs-House Taken From Traffords Weint

This edition of the Ordnance Survey maps showed the ground floors of public buildings, and it's apparent that the rooms in the Custom House were rather small - for such a huge building, so I've now got an open mind about what remained after the main structure was demolished in 1948.

The monument was to Huskisson.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2420/2437856205_05341ae479_o.jpg

Ogden's weint off Litherland Alley was still there until at last as the 1970s.

Here's another of the remains of the Customs House dating from as late as 1954, over a decade after it was bombed.


"as late as"? They only cleared that in the mid 1960s. I used to pay in it - a wonderous maze. We would run along the walls which were about 3 to 4 foot thick.


I heard it said that the interior of the Customs House was, like the Museum, gutted by incendiaries but that its main structure was basically ok and could also have been restored. What we see in the pictures is deliberate demolition, not bomb damage. Can anyone confirm?

Yep. The operation was moved to London so the place was demolished. Another case of London raping the city.

Here is the Customs house burnt out in the background.
http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/chg/content/images/2005_2319.JPG

...but can anyone identify the statue in this photo? ...:

It seems to be marked 'Huskisson's Monument' on PhillipG's plan? (The MP killed by the Rocket?)

...Also, I wonder what happened to it:disgust:


"The Walker Art Gallery Liverpool statue of Huskisson was originally in St James's Cemetery, Liverpool, on top of the remains of William Huskisson. The sculpture was housed in a specially built mausoleum. The housing of the sculpture attracted a lot of criticism. Many critics thought that to allow such an important sculpture to be viewed from one direction only was a waste.
The critics suggested that the sculpture could be moved to another location in the city. However, William Huskisson's wife wanted the sculpture to remain above her husband's grave. She commissioned the sculptor Gibson to create another sculpture in marble. This second sculpture was supposed to stand in the Custom House, Liverpool. The sculpture, completed in 1836, didn't stay in Liverpool however, and was instead placed at the Royal Exchange, London. Today it can be found in Pimlico Gardens, London.

Using the second marble sculpture as a master, a bronze version was cast. This bronze version of the sculpture was unveiled in October 1847. Its original location was in front of the Customs House in Canning Place, Liverpool. The Customs House was destroyed during air raids in 1940 during the Second World War. In 1954 the sculpture was moved to a new home on the Princes Road/Princes Avenue boulevard. The sculpture was pulled from its plinth in the Toxteth Riots of 1981because people thought Huskisson had been a slave trader. From 1982 onwards the bronze sculpture was housed in the Oratory in St James's Mount Gardens. In 2004 it came into the sculpture studios at the National Conservation Centre for conservation. The sculpture is now located in a new housing development off Duke Street in the city centre. (Duke Street Terrace near The Chinese Arch).

I am grateful to Alan Maycock for putting together this information. His sources were various National Museums in Liverpool: the National Conservation Centre, Liverpool Monuments , Lowton history site"

"The Walker Art Gallery Liverpool statue of Huskisson was originally in St James's Cemetery, Liverpool, on top of the remains of William Huskisson. The sculpture was housed in a specially built mausoleum. The housing of the sculpture attracted a lot of criticism. Many critics thought that to allow such an important sculpture to be viewed from one direction only was a waste.
The critics suggested that the sculpture could be moved to another location in the city. However, William Huskisson's wife wanted the sculpture to remain above her husband's grave. She commissioned the sculptor Gibson to create another sculpture in marble. This second sculpture was supposed to stand in the Custom House, Liverpool. The sculpture, completed in 1836, didn't stay in Liverpool however, and was instead placed at the Royal Exchange, London. Today it can be found in Pimlico Gardens, London.

Using the second marble sculpture as a master, a bronze version was cast. This bronze version of the sculpture was unveiled in October 1847. Its original location was in front of the Customs House in Canning Place, Liverpool. The Customs House was destroyed during air raids in 1940 during the Second World War. In 1954 the sculpture was moved to a new home on the Princes Road/Princes Avenue boulevard. The sculpture was pulled from its plinth in the Toxteth Riots of 1981because people thought Huskisson had been a slave trader. From 1982 onwards the bronze sculpture was housed in the Oratory in St James's Mount Gardens. In 2004 it came into the sculpture studios at the National Conservation Centre for conservation. The sculpture is now located in a new housing development off Duke Street in the city centre. (Duke Street Terrace near The Chinese Arch).

I am grateful to Alan Maycock for putting together this information. His sources were various National Museums in Liverpool: the National Conservation Centre, Liverpool Monuments , Lowton history site"

Here it is in Duke Street.
It seems rather an odd place for it, as you only see it when you go to the rear of the properties.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2120/2374144927_e61c11c79c_o.jpg

...It seems rather an odd place for it...

Apparently a bit of an odd bloke. His statue is in the 'heroic' style ie. nothing like him

"The Walker Art Gallery Liverpool statue of Huskisson was originally in St James's Cemetery, Liverpool, on top of the remains of William Huskisson. The sculpture was housed in a specially built mausoleum. The housing of the sculpture attracted a lot of criticism. Many critics thought that to allow such an important sculpture to be viewed from one direction only was a waste.
The critics suggested that the sculpture could be moved to another location in the city. However, William Huskisson's wife wanted the sculpture to remain above her husband's grave. She commissioned the sculptor Gibson to create another sculpture in marble. This second sculpture was supposed to stand in the Custom House, Liverpool. The sculpture, completed in 1836, didn't stay in Liverpool however, and was instead placed at the Royal Exchange, London. Today it can be found in Pimlico Gardens, London.

Using the second marble sculpture as a master, a bronze version was cast. This bronze version of the sculpture was unveiled in October 1847. Its original location was in front of the Customs House in Canning Place, Liverpool. The Customs House was destroyed during air raids in 1940 during the Second World War. In 1954 the sculpture was moved to a new home on the Princes Road/Princes Avenue boulevard. The sculpture was pulled from its plinth in the Toxteth Riots of 1981because people thought Huskisson had been a slave trader. From 1982 onwards the bronze sculpture was housed in the Oratory in St James's Mount Gardens. In 2004 it came into the sculpture studios at the National Conservation Centre for conservation. The sculpture is now located in a new housing development off Duke Street in the city centre. (Duke Street Terrace near The Chinese Arch).

I am grateful to Alan Maycock for putting together this information. His sources were various National Museums in Liverpool: the National Conservation Centre, Liverpool Monuments , Lowton history site"

Thanks, interesting stuff! It's a wonder the statue survived, considering what happened to the customs house, and I dont mean by the lutwaffe!

I've just posted a post-war, pre-demolition photo of the Customs House here (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129339&postcount=319)

Yep, here it is...

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6262&d=1209642604

^
And my comments from that thread where I posted the picture:

Here's a rare close-up shot of the Customs House after it was bombed in WW2 but before it was demolished. The statue of William Huskisson (by J. Gibson) is outside. It looks like the statue is on top of the air-raid shelter but I imagine it was actually behind it.

The statue was moved to Princes Avenue in 1954 so the photo is before that date.

(Credit: Courtauld Institute of Art)

Thanks ayjaykay and WW.

Here's the base in Princes Avenue.
It's interesting that the statue wasn't returned here, but placed out of sight in a "Gated" area.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2177/2442008075_e985f784a3_o.jpg

Here's the base in Princes Avenue.
It's interesting that the statue wasn't returned here, but placed out of sight in a "Gated" area.

Probably because, as noted elsewhere, he'd previously been toppled off his perch here by local nitwits, who, knowing less about their history than they'd like to think, took him for a slave trader.

He was replaced for a while by a 'homemade' affair but this too, judging by your picture, seems to have vanished now.

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/avenuestatue.JPG

While on the Avenue, can anyone remind me what was the name of the similarly-absent chap who used to stand at the other end, what he was noted for and what happened to him? (before coming to the avenue, he used to stand outside the first Philharminc Hall, as may be seen here- http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8716)

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/yoliverpool/statue.jpg