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mikewturner
03-23-2008, 12:19 PM
Hi Guys

With all the talk on here re forgotten and 'might have been' stations I have never seen mention of the one provided for the International Exhibition of 1886 near Edge Hill.

Do people know about this?

Regards

Mike

merseywail
03-23-2008, 04:30 PM
Bob Pixton mentions, & has photo of, Exhibition junction signalbox in his book Liverpool & Manchester. He says the exhibition was held at nearby Edge lane hall. Any station would have been temporary.

mikewturner
03-23-2008, 04:48 PM
Bob Pixton mentions, & has photo of, Exhibition junction signalbox in his book Liverpool & Manchester. He says the exhibition was held at nearby Edge lane hall.

Hi

Interestingly the signal box was only named Exhibition Junction in the late 50's/early 60's in connection with the Edge Hill resignalling scheme. Prior to that it was named Edge Hill No.13 although I believe it was known as Exhibition Jcn. by railwaymen. This particular box was new in 1929 and it would have been the old box it replaced which signalled the trains into the Exhibition Station.

The Exhibition was held near Edge Lane Hall but not in it. Bob Pinxton's captions often need to be taken with a pinch of salt......

Regards

Mike

merseywail
03-23-2008, 05:11 PM
The Exhibition was held near Edge Lane Hall but not in it. Bob Pinxton's captions often need to be taken with a pinch of salt......

Regards

Mike
Captions on the back of old prints can be misleading, as i myself have found.

Cadfael
03-23-2008, 07:42 PM
Not of Edge Hill itself but I've got 14 glass plate scans from the conversion of the Edge Hill to Lime Street tunnel to the now cutting.

mikewturner
03-24-2008, 11:16 AM
Not of Edge Hill itself but I've got 14 glass plate scans from the conversion of the Edge Hill to Lime Street tunnel to the now cutting.

I take it these are the ones from the NRM collection?

Mike

mikewturner
03-24-2008, 11:19 AM
Captions on the back of old prints can be misleading, as i myself have found.

Bobs problem is he never lets the truth get in the way of a good caption. All of his books are like this not just the Liverpool to Manchester ones.

Mike

mikewturner
03-24-2008, 11:37 AM
Anyway back to the thread....

Extract from map showing site of exhibition in relation to the railway

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/152/mapsw7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Artists impression of the exhibition from a souvenir booklet published by Lewis's store

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2181/1886le14yg0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Note what appears to be railway lines curving in to the exhibition at the far end. Interestingly research seems to show the station to have been at the near end on Exhibition Road so this could just be the artists representation of the Bootle Branch.

More to come.

Mike

Cadfael
03-24-2008, 11:41 AM
I take it these are the ones from the NRM collection?

Mike

Given to me by my uncle who has an interest in trains - not sure where they are from.

merseywail
03-24-2008, 11:57 AM
Bobs problem is he never lets the truth get in the way of a good caption. All of his books are like this not just the Liverpool to Manchester ones.

Mike
I will have to take what he says in his books carefuly then. You would expect publishers to insist the author has done his research. I can't see a line or sta on the map , except Edge hill, but the artist impression seems to show lines running to the site, temporary lines maybe ? There is what looks like a goods shed near Botanic rd could this be it, or did they use the shed for passengers ?

mikewturner
03-24-2008, 12:51 PM
Given to me by my uncle who has an interest in trains - not sure where they are from.

I have started a new thread 'Fourteen Tunnels to Lime Street' to split this interesting subject off.

Mike

mikewturner
03-24-2008, 12:55 PM
I will have to take what he says in his books carefuly then. You would expect publishers to insist the author has done his research. I can't see a line or sta on the map , except Edge hill, but the artist impression seems to show lines running to the site, temporary lines maybe ? There is what looks like a goods shed near Botanic rd could this be it, or did they use the shed for passengers ?


The artists view is from a position above Botanic Park and the road in the foreground is Exhibition Road. Edge Lane is to the left. The lines curving to the right are going towards Wavertree and Mossley Hill stations, straight on is towards Broad Green and those curving to the left are assumed to be where the artist has positioned the station. As I said previously my research shows it to be on Exhibition Road.

Regards

Mike

Cadfael
03-24-2008, 01:09 PM
The artists view is from a position above Botanic Park and the road in the foreground is Exhibition Road. Edge Lane is to the left. The lines curving to the right are going towards Wavertree and Mossley Hill stations, straight on is towards Broad Green and those curving to the left are assumed to be where the artist has positioned the station. As I said previously my research shows it to be on Exhibition Road.

Regards

Mike

The lines seem to be a tad close to the edge of the park though this is obviously only a drawing. You can see Wavertree Curve to the right and if you know your line, the bootle branch veering off to the left.

mikewturner
03-24-2008, 01:21 PM
The lines seem to be a tad close to the edge of the park though this is obviously only a drawing. You can see Wavertree Curve to the right and if you know your line, the bootle branch veering off to the left.


I agree that the lines veering off to the left are probably the Bootle Branch although technically they should come off beyond Wavertree curve and the view should be blocked by Picko Lane overbridge. But as you say it's obviously only a drawing.

Mike

mikewturner
03-24-2008, 07:09 PM
More evidence found on the internet at

http://www.studygroup.org.uk/Articles/Content/Liverpool%20Gypsies.htm

The Royal Epping Forest Gipsy Encampment at the International Exhibition, Liverpool. 1886 by Sharon Floate

The 1886 Exhibition was a landmark event in Liverpool’s civic history, being the first great International Exhibition to be held outside London. It took place in buildings specially erected for the event on a site that lay due east of the present day Wavertree Park and Botanic Gardens in Edge Hill, with Edge Lane as the northern boundary of the grounds. A special railway station was also constructed to bring visitors to the exhibition, called ‘Exhibition Road’..................

snipped

Extract from the Liverpool Mercury

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6187/lpoolmercuryextractxv2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and The New York Times

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/349/newyorktimesvs9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Mike

Ged
03-25-2008, 09:14 AM
Here is a detailed layout of the exhibition from the LRO. The station isn't mentioned here, but it looks like from an earlier pic above that it ran on the outside.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5822/1886exhibitionga2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




.

merseywail
03-25-2008, 02:24 PM
Just a thought , could the station have been just temporary platforms on the main line .A station in the grounds would have required run round loops for locos & temporary signaling. The line does pass close to exhibition rd, it would only be a short walk from there.

mikewturner
03-25-2008, 09:03 PM
Here is a detailed layout of the exhibition from the LRO. The station isn't mentioned here, but it looks like from an earlier pic above that it ran on the outside.

.
NIce one Ged!

I have some OS maps which I believe show the station and will post as soon as I get back to my office and the scanner!

Mike

mikewturner
04-07-2008, 08:20 PM
NIce one Ged!

I have some OS maps which I believe show the station and will post as soon as I get back to my office and the scanner!

Mike

And here they are....

The 1:500 OS of late 1880's shows disused platforms
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/82/1500mapcr2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Extract from 1905 revision of OS showing a general view of the same site
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7905/1905osmapbm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

In later years Edge Hill No.13 was renamed Exhibition Junction although the box that carried the name was a replacement in 1929(ish) for the one shown on the map and was nearer Crawfords factory.

The bit that always troubled me is the old formation leading towards the site. In later years the council had sidings here and I had assumed there had been some earlier also and then I looked at my images of the model of Edge Hill in the National Railway Museum and noticed almost in a state of shock.........
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4558/imgp2288nrmjv0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The model shows the exhibition and the formation was indeed sidings leading in to the complex I assume for loading/unloading exhibits!!!

Mike

HollyBlack
04-08-2008, 06:59 AM
... The model shows the exhibition and the formation was indeed sidings leading in to the complex I assume for loading/unloading exhibits!!! ... And, likely, for the Royal train too. That's presumably why one of the sidings has a locomotive run-around track. So the Royal train would not have to reverse on the mainline.

Ged
04-08-2008, 10:41 AM
Great find Mike, that model railway with the exhibition, great pic.

PhilipG
04-08-2008, 10:51 AM
Great find Mike, that model railway with the exhibition, great pic.

It is, indeed.
As is the 1880s map.
Is that in the Record Office, Mike, because I checked the 1889 OS, which is similar to the 1905 OS (without showing evidence of a station).

That drawing is good, but I think the railway running right down the side is a bit of artistic licence.

Great plan, Ged.
Signs of a mis-spent youth in the RO. :shock:

Ged
04-08-2008, 11:00 AM
Great plan, Ged.
Signs of a mis-spent youth in the RO. :shock:

Is that where I got it ;)

Can't quite remember now......

mikewturner
04-08-2008, 07:55 PM
It is, indeed.
As is the 1880s map.
Is that in the Record Office, Mike, because I checked the 1889 OS, which is similar to the 1905 OS (without showing evidence of a station).

That drawing is good, but I think the railway running right down the side is a bit of artistic licence.

Great plan, Ged.
Signs of a mis-spent youth in the RO. :shock:

These aren't the normal 25in OS maps but the 'super scale' 50in one's. I copied loads for the Edge Area years ago and looking through most are surveyed 1890, my mistake. The sheet in question is CVI.15.9.

Regards

Mike

mikewturner
04-08-2008, 08:11 PM
And, likely, for the Royal train too. That's presumably why one of the sidings has a locomotive run-around track. So the Royal train would not have to reverse on the mainline.

I think the lines into the exhibition are 'goods only' and the station was as sketched on the map. A couple of reasons for this -

1. Station appears to have been known as Exhibition Road (see Ged's map)
2. The Liverpool Mercury in it's article about the arrival of the Queen talks about the station near the exhibition and who's platform adjoins the roadway. It goes on to say the queen kept heir veil raised until she passed the exhibition on route to her temporary residence in Newsham House.

Mike

PhilipG
04-08-2008, 08:45 PM
I think the lines into the exhibition are 'goods only' and the station was as sketched on the map. A couple of reasons for this -

1. Station appears to have been known as Exhibiton Road (see Ged's map)
2. The Liverpool Mercury in it's article about the arrival of the Queen talks about the station near the exhibition and who's platform adjoins the roadway. It goes on to say the queen kept heir veil raised until she passed the exhibition on route to her temporary residence in Newsham House.

Mike

The reason for her staying at the Judges' Lodgings (Newsham House) was because she opened the Exhibition.

From the "Annals of Liverpool".
Exhibition (Shipperies). Queen Victoria in Liverpool to open the "International Exhibition of Navigation", Edge Lane Estate. 11 May 1886.

Thanks for the reference for the map.