International Slavery Museum

[Kev]

THE director of National Museums Liverpool last night revealed the first glimpse of the star attractions he wants to exhibit inside his planned new city museum.

Dr David Fleming hit back after the Heritage Lottery Fund last month rejected his bid for a key £11.4m, on the grounds of serious concerns about escalating costs and lack of detail about the interior.

He insisted most of the flesh was already on the bones of plans for how the vast exhibition space would be used, and revealed four distinct themes were planned to depict the city's rich and history.

He revealed several new acquisitions that will form the backbone of the museum, including the original stage from the church hall where John Lennon and Paul McCartney first met.

It will also house a 200-seater cinema, and a life-size re-creation of the city's overhead railway, featuring an original 3rd class wooden carriage.

Dr Fleming said the attraction would herald a new era in museum going, by attaching real life stories to exhibits.

He said he hoped it would "breathe a new kind of life into Liverpool's pride."

Dr Fleming described his vision as "very simple". He said: "The museum will provide a new understanding of why the city is what it is today."

The blueprints for the exterior of the much maligned X-shaped building have already been approved by CABE. Planning permission was granted last year.

Despite the HLF disappointment, Dr Fleming hopes to press ahead with building work in April, aiming to be finished in 2008, and open in 2010.

Dr Fleming said plans for the inside will be further honed well in advance of a second attempt at an HLF bid, expected to be submitted in June, which would unlock a further £40m from Objective 1 and the NWDA.

There are 12 staff organising NML's social history collection, cataloguing items and interviewing people to compile interactive displays.

So far, stakeholders have been told exhibitions will tell the stories of the people of Liverpool and explore the city's social history.

Dr Fleming said: "It will really open people's eyes about Liverpool, and about what a magnificent city it was in its prime because people growing up here in modern times wouldn't have experienced that"I'd like people to know more about the city that invented modern popular culture."

He added that far from being preoccupied with creating an "iconic" 21st century building for the waterfront, NML saw a new museum as vital to boost the reputation of the city.

He said: "None of the other existing museums explain the story of Liverpool. They explain all sorts of other stories, the maritime story, the slavery story...if you want to learn about the city you go to the Museum of Liverpool Life, but the problem with that is it is simply not big enough.

"The grandeur of the Liverpool story is not catered for."

[Kev]

more details of these treasures can be found here (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16678436%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=the%2dstory%2dof%2dour%2dcity%2dlies%2d in%2da%2dwarehouse-name_page.html)

[Max]

Arrrrr Tresure.:cool:

[Kev]

Liverpool"s newest museum will show that slavery is an ongoing problem. Laura Davis reports

IT IS rare that we are expected to apologise for the wrongs of our ances- tors. Foul deeds that took place a century or so in the past go unavenged upon later generations.

Yet, when it comes to the slave trade, it understandably seems that there are not enough sorries in the world to make amends for forcibly taking millions of people thousands of miles from home and selling them like cattle.

"I am of the belief that an apology in itself is just a group of words and doesn"t really mean anything unless it is backed up with something," argues Dr Richard Benjamin, head of Liverpool"s new International Slavery Museum.

"It"s more important to open up a debate about contemporary slavery and use the past to highlight the continu- ing problems today." continues (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=facing-up-to-the-past%26method=full%26objectid=18365435%26siteid=50 061-name_page.html)....

[Paul D]

It's going to be brilliant if the exhibition at the Maritime Museum was anything to go by,I can't wait for this to open.

[Kev]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/images/2007/03/30/freedomwall_470x321.jpg (http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/images/2007/03/30/freedomwall_470x321.jpg)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/images/2007/03/30/ismfloor_470x354.jpg (http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/images/2007/03/30/ismfloor_470x354.jpg)

[Kev]

These images are screen grabs of an interactive created for the International Slavery Museum. The interactive will follow the journey of a real 18th century slaving ship, the Essex, starting in Liverpool dock and then on to Africa and the Americas.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/462792213_bb1cb21629_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nationalmuseumsliverpool/462792213/in/set-72157600086225574/)

An 18th century Liverpool dock, showing the Essex about to set sail.
This grab shows models and textures. more (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nationalmuseumsliverpool/sets/72157600086225574/)

[Howie]

Museum shows up past and present

Mary O'Hara
Wednesday July 25, 2007
The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)

As the descendant of black Africans sold as slaves and the son of a Guyanese father and English mother, Richard Benjamin's passion for his job as head of the new International Slavery Museum in Liverpool comes, he says, "from a very personal place". His role at the museum, which opens next month, is the culmination of years of studying race relations and, recently, gaining a PhD in archeology, inspired by an interest in how black communities engage with their past.

"Black history was important to me," he says. "I grew up in a small village in Yorkshire. It was a traditional white, working-class place. My childhood was very good, but I did often encounter blatant racism."

For Benjamin, 36, who has been in post six months, being made director of the museum gives him the opportunity to "tell the story" of transatlantic slavery in a way that appeals to a cross-section of people. He hopes his knowledge and understanding of the issues will make a real difference to its future.

The aim is to build on the museum's origins as the much smaller-scale Transatlantic Slavery Gallery, Benjamin says, by exploring "a bigger picture", encompassing a longer historical period. There are also plans to develop more audio-visual elements and large research and learning centres. "This is definitely for people who have no understanding of what a slave is or was," he says. "But it will also cater to academics and tourists. It will work on many levels."

Benjamin says that what particularly excites him is that the museum will not remain limited to an examination of the past, or indeed to how the international slave trade impacted on black people and communities. The broader legacy of the slave trade is something he hopes to examine in more detail. "The next phase is to look at the issues around contemporary slavery. We will look at sex-trafficking. I'd like the museum to confront and challenge modern slavery."

Benjamin attributes the vision for the museum to David Fleming, director of National Museums, Liverpool, to which the new museum belongs. But he has his own ambitions for it and they are rooted in his personal and academic background. "This is important to me. I would like to think that black people in the rest of the world will know there is somewhere they can visit that covers the issue of slavery historically and in a contemporary context."

· The International Slavery Museum opens on August 23, which is Slavery Remembrance Day. More information at liverpoolmuseums.org.uk (http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/)

Source: SocietyGuardian.co.uk (http://society.guardian.co.uk/societyguardian/story/0,,2133494,00.html)

[marky]

How depressing...apparently Liverpool is to be the centre of the Universe for studying modern-day slavery. I think I'll give this museum a miss.

[Libertarian]

Walking through Williamson Square today there was some sort of caravan on top of the fountain blasting out a reggae song about standing up for your rights.

Apparently this was an anti 'discrimination' tour. Discrimination against who exactly? Homosexuals in Jamaica I think not!

The problem with people now especially young people is that they have too many bloody rights and don't think about their responsibilities.

[ChrisGeorge]

Walking through Williamson Square today there was some sort of caravan on top of the fountain blasting out a reggae song about standing up for your rights.

Apparently this was an anti 'discrimination' tour. Discrimination against who exactly? Homosexuals in Jamaica I think not!

The problem with people now especially young people is that they have too many bloody rights and don't think about their responsibilities.

"Get Up, Stand Up (for Your Rights)" is an old Bob Marley song so they may have been just playing music not protesting. . .

Chris

[snappel]

To be honest I thought slave trade exhibition at the Maritime Museum was good, but I don't see why there's this constant effort to try and recognise what happened and make a big thing about it. It's just one of many bad things that happened in history, just reminding us again that humans are selfish and greedy.

[Kev]

I was disappointed at a recent visit to the Maritime Museum.

[Howie]

Museum’s slavery tale seeks a closing chapter
Aug 13 2007
by Joe Riley, Liverpool Echo

Arts Editor Joe Riley gets an exclusive preview of Liverpool’s International Slavery Museum, which opens later this month

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/article/11974756.jpeg

IT IS a gruesome story, well told, but also providing a sense of achievement and dignity for the descendants of victims.

But the £4m first phase of Liverpool’s unique International Slavery Museum remains an open book.

Enforced labour and human trafficking is still happening to an estimated 12 million men, women and children worldwide.

Thus the central time-line walk in the new gallery stretches back more than 500 years but equally has no closing chapter.

Perhaps one day it will.

That is certainly the hope for this global attraction, expected to draw more than 200,000 visitors a year after it opens on August 23.

Among the hundreds of exhibits, which include shackles, neck yokes and symbols of racial hatred, such as a Ku Klux Klan costume, there is also the colour and resilience of entire civilisations, mainly in Africa and the Americas, who have not – even now – been given true recognition.

Arts and crafts and music and literature which have been eclipsed by ignorance and cruelty.

And covering the walls, at almost every step over an area of more than 1,000 square metres – two and a half times bigger than the former Atlantic slave trade gallery – are the reflections of the victims and campaigners associated with this most despicable of human trades.

None resounds more than the words of former slave William Prescott, recorded as late as 1937: “They will remember that we were sold, but not that we were strong; they will remember that we were bought, but not that we were brave.”

It is as if this show – covering the entire third floor of the Maritime Museum at Albert Dock – is screaming to reverse those impressions.

Tony Tibbles, museum director, said: “There is nothing else like this anywhere in the world.

“In America, there are some exhibitions and a record of what happened on their own mainland, but there is no apparent interest in where the slaves came from.”

There is intent for an international slavery museum in Virginia – but Liverpool has got there first.

And not without reason.

The city’s connection with the slave trade was both direct and vast.

But unlike the post-50 generation were led to believe, there were no big slave auctions in Liverpool.

Yet it was Liverpool merchants who organised a huge tranche of the slave trade.

After the human cargoes had been snatched from Africa, and discharged in America, the vessels returned to these shores with the rich spoils of tobacco, cotton and sugar, the dividends of human misery.

Mr Tibbles said: “Up to 12 million Africans were transported across the Atlantic to America. Liverpool was directly responsible for a great number of those organised trips, but that was by no means the end of it.”

Hence the museum’s dedication to also examining the still evident consequences of forced migration, which have changed societies right across the world.

Even so, the inclusive nature of the exhibits – some of which, including the model of a plantation, are interactive – tells the story in terms of “us” rather than “them.”

Mr Tibbles said: “Very many people, including those from local communities, have offered their expertise.

“That is why the result is one of revelation and personal involvement rather than seeming to have come from some sort of academic ghetto.”

Masks, musical instruments, a full-scale model of a Nigerian Igbo elder’s home, axe heads, tools, hunting kits, clothes and shoes, all play their part.

There is the prominence of exotic textiles – some of which were used to pay for slaves – as well as the catalogues of torture and death.

But there is no masking some of those dreadful truths or any attempt to be economical with the truth.

Take the case of sea captain James Penny – now immortalised by Penny Lane – who attempted, during the abolitionist struggle, to argue that slaves were well treated during transportation.

Although this year marks the 200th anniversary of the outlawing of the Atlantic slave trade in the UK, the recorded history of systematic kidnapping and abuse of slaves stretches back half a millennium to 1502.

Mr Tibbles and his team say that some tourists will come more as pilgrims to pay homage to their forebears.

There are people around whose great-grandfathers were slaves. But the hurt goes back much further, to the exploitation of an entire people.

Mr Tibbles provides a wider perspective: “It’s easy to forget that slavery was also so dominant in places like South America. It was, and still is, an international evil.”

Day marks uprising

THE international Slavery Museum is part of National Museums Liverpool.

It will open on August 23, Slavery Day 2007, which commemorates an uprising of enslaved Africans on the island of St Domingo (modern Haiti and the Dominican Republic) in 1791.

The day was designated by UNESCO as a reminder that such victims were the principal agents of their own liberation.

The new museum traces the story and legacy of transatlantic slavery, centred on the fact that Liverpool was central to that trade in the 18th century.

Other associated subjects dealt with include human rights, reparations, racial discrimination and cultural change.

A second phase, due to open in 2010 will include a visitor education centre, with lectures, debates and performances using the newly acquired dock traffic office, most recently the Liverpool base for Granada TV. This scheme is in partnership with Liverpool university.

Source: Liverpool Echo (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/08/13/museum-s-slavery-tale-seeks-a-closing-chapter-100252-19616788/)

[kat2]

I dont know why they keep bringing up negative things all the time, how can that help race relations with all thats happening around us, yes it did happen, like so many other things happend too, the Jews, and so on. Why not focus on invention and the industrial age after all we were great britain. why not talk about some of the other things that this area was famous for, such as its maritime history and its links with health.
lets look at our great engineers.
kat:)

[miguel]

It's because they have a political axe to grind, Kat, or the the quango directors know which way the promotional wind is blowing. I sent the following to a number of newspapers. Most to their credit published it. The Post did too but they deleted the bit about England publicly burning women at the stake over two decades AFTER slavery was abolished.

For anyone to raise awareness of the evils of slavery is laudable. What is odious is the singling out of pre-18th Century African slavery as unique, and to downplay African participation in it.
As with other vices slavery has been part of the human condition throughout history and effected all peoples. To bleed for just one is surely racist.
Is slavery of non-Africans or by Africans less odious? One can well imagine the furore if an exhibition or penitence walk concerned solely with the enslavement of whites were proposed.
Two decades after African slavery had been abolished, England’s regime had transported 60,000 Englishmen, women and children as slaves. The ethnic cleansing of Scotland and Ireland, added to by the indentured multiply these appalling figures to industrial levels.
Many died in the utmost squalor and degradation, often of heartbreak. Where are the monuments to these poor souls? Are they still without value? Wrong colour? Shame!
Entire families were torn apart. The suffering, disease and death rates of whites in prisons, during transportation, and on being abandoned across the world including Africa, was far greater than the suffering of African slaves who had a value.
From the moment manacled females were boarded, some barely alive through disease and starvation, many of them infants, children, they were routinely seized as booty (by law) by the crew and marines.
On arrival most were stood on bales and sold. They were de facto slaves for life. The anguish of families left behind was unimaginable.
Then as now hypocrisy prevailed but The Times was indignant, ‘Must not mankind laugh at our long speeches against African slavery . . . when . . . we roast a fellow creature alive, for putting a pennyworth of quicksilver into a halfpennyworth of brass?’ Is the slavery of our own a shame too far for our fragile consciences? Political correctness when it is racially selective is racism. None of us, whatever our colour, want to be slaves to political correctness.

PS How about a museum for the millions the Soviets enslaved? 5,000,000 German slaves as 'reparations' s the USSR vacuumed up out of Germany after the war's ennd? What about the millions of Germans used as slaves by the victorious allies long after the war had ebded. Not a peep about those poor buggers. Nearly a million young men died in Eisenhower's death camps. It is so sorrrowful.

[snappel]

For anyone to raise awareness of the evils of slavery is laudable. What is odious is the singling out of pre-18th Century African slavery as unique, and to downplay African participation in it.
As with other vices slavery has been part of the human condition throughout history and effected all peoples. To bleed for just one is surely racist.
Is slavery of non-Africans or by Africans less odious?
An excellent post, miguel.

I get annoyed by this focus on the 'slave trade', and how people seem desperate for constant apologies about it. As the new exhibition states, slavery is still happening today. And the slave trade was not the start of slavery either. And then there's the fact that African's sold slaves to the Americans, and blacks owned slaves themselves in America.

What I'd like to see is a museum dedicated to the Battle of the Atlantic, and commemorating the true heroes who worked the convoys to preserve our freedom in the 20th century, especially the brave men of the Merchant Navy. They could bring the U-boat over for that as well... Won't happen of course...

[kat2]

I think we could do more to promote our industrial past, I mean look at all the find buildings you have photographed, look at how britian as a whole was once a pioneer of so many things, now all we do is appologise and make donations of our hard earned cash. Why not talk britain and Liverpool up, why all this negative stuff all the time, the home of ship building and industry.
kat:)

[davegore2005]

I took my children to the maritime today and I was talking to one of the staff in the learning zone while my kids were doing the activities. She told me that she had been allowed to look around the exhibition a week or so again and said it is looking fantastic. My son who is seven enjoyed the slavery museum when it was in the basement and was interested to find out some history and I think too it will bring a lot of people back to the maritime which I think was beginning to get a little dull, especially with having nothing new to see.

Dave

[Howie]

Story of city’s past is written in stone
Aug 14 2007
by Mary Murtagh, Liverpool Echo

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/article/11975419.jpeg

EVIDENCE of Liverpool’s slave trade past is all over the city – in its architecture, public buildings and street names. With the International Slavery Museum due to open on August 23 Mary Murtagh brings the city's links with human trafficking into focus . . .

VERY few slaves actually passed through Liverpool.

But the slave trade made the city rich and powerful leaving a permanent mark for generations to come.

From the grand houses built using slave money to the street names we all take for granted there are clues everywhere.

During the 18th century Liverpool was Britain's main slaving port and formed one corner of the “slave triangle”.

Ships from the Mersey’s shores took at least 1.5 million Africans across the Atlantic destined to work on plantations in the Caribbean and America’s deep South.

The city thrived doing ship repairs and importing goods with approximately half of Liverpool’s trade linked to slavery.

The movers and shakers among slave traders were immortalised with streets named after them.

Many of these historical markers survive to this day.

1. Gildart St

NAMED after Richard Gildart who was a slave trader and a politician. He was listed among the Company of Merchants trading to Africa in 1752.

At that time he owned three ships involved in the slave trade. Gildart served on the town council, was mayor three times, a bailiff and MP for the town from 1734 to 1754.

2. Rodney St

BUILT between about 1782 and 1801 this street provided homes for many of Liverpool's elite merchants and the buildings still reflect that wealth.

It was named after Admiral Rodney who defeated the French in St Lucia on 1782 to preserve British influence in the West Indies. Rodney supported the slave trade. John Gladstone, father of prime minister William Ewart Gladstone, lived on Rodney Street.

He made his wealth through the sugar plantations in Demerara and Jamaica.

3. Bold St

NAMED after Jonas Bold, a noted slave merchant, sugar trader and banker. In 1802 Bold became Mayor of Liverpool.

4. The Athenaeum

FOUNDED in 1799 as a gentlemen's club, library and reading room by a group which included abolitionists William Roscoe and James Currie.

5. Tarleton St

NAMED after a vigorous slaving family in Liverpool for over three generations.

Three of John Tarleton's sons were involved in the trade between 1786 and 1788 and had shares in 52 slaving voyages. The fourth son Banastre was an MP and an opponent of abolition.

6. Park Lane

MANY merchants' warehouses were situated in this area. Charles Roe & Company, in nearby Sparling Street, was founded in 1767 and supplied copper and brass goods and equipment, including manillas, for trading in Africa.

Many black seamen lived in the area in the nineteenth century.

7. Albert Dock

THE new International Slavery Museum covers slavery’s past and will look to the future.

8. The Port of Liverpool building

LOOK out for stone carvings of slave ships on the facade of the building with dolphins.

9. Cunard building

KEEP an eye out for a slave ship, a native American and an African man and woman created on the stone facade by skilled stone masons.

10. Pier Head

THE buildings at the Pier Head on Liverpool's waterfront stand on the site of George's Dock, opened in 1771. In the dock's heyday ships trading to West Africa, North America and the West Indies would have berthed three or four deep along the quays.

11. Our Lady & St Nicholas church

A GOLDEN slave ship sits on top of the spire.

Over the entrance are stone carvings of palm trees and a sun to represent the foreign climes where slaves worked, a slave ship and cotton flower.

In a corner of the churchyard stood a coffee house in which shackles were auctioned during the 18th century.

12. Exchange Flags

WHERE the merchants of Liverpool, including slave traders, carried out their business in the open air. They would exchange a form of business card – with the flag of their slave ship on it – which is how the square got its name.

The chained figures on the Nelson memorial at the heart of the square are not slaves but represent prisoners from some of the Admiral's most famous battles, although Nelson supported the slave trade.

13. Town Hall

IT WAS built in the 1750s and rebuilt after a fire in 1795.

The frieze around the outside, illustrating Liverpool's trading routes, include lions, crocodiles, elephants and African faces.

The hall was paid for partly by wealth amassed through the slave trade.

14. Cunliffe St

NAMED after Foster Cunliffe, Mayor of Liverpool in 1716, 1729 and 1735.

He and his sons Robert and Ellis were prominent slave traders.

In 1752 they had four vessels involved in slaving.

15. Earle St

NAMED after the Earle family who were slave traders throughout the eighteenth century. John Earle and his two sons Ralph and Thomas served on the town council and all three held the office of mayor.

Source: Liverpool Echo (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/08/14/story-of-city-s-past-is-written-in-stone-100252-19622136/)

[miguel]

For at that time, and ever since, the British Government has filled its coffers with the proceeds of WHITE CHRISTIAN slaves; but to liberal-leftist RACIST hypocrites the WHITE slaves don't matter at all. Enjoy:-

Enslavement of Prisoners of War is a violation of the Geneva Convention. - Article.75.

"Such were the desperate straits of the German prisoners -of-war that an increasing number of them were escaping from British slave camps... with British civilian aid. Accounts of the chases by Military Police are reminiscent of pre-Civil War pursuits by fleeing Negro fugitives." - Chicago Tribune Press Service, London, August 27th 1946

“German prisoners who were to be turned over to the Russians often committed suicide or tried to incapacitate themselves by slashing their bodies with knives, razors, or bits of glass.” - Associated Press, Stockholm, November 30th 1945

"Great Britain in August, 1946, 15-months after the war's end, according to the International Red Cross, had 460,000 German prisoners-of-war slaving for her." John Thompson, Geneva, August 24th 1946. Chicago Tribune Press Service

In Britain, among other projects, the prisoners-of-war were forced to build in Kensington Gardens a British victory celebration camp to house 24,000 Empire troops who marched in the Empire's Victory Day Parade. One foreman remarked: 'I guess the Jerries are preparing to celebrate their own downfall. It does seem as though it is laying it on a bit thick.'

"The British Government nets over $250,000,000 each year from its German slaves, hiring them out at up to $20 a week, and paying the slaves up to 20 cents a day. The prisoners are never given cash but are provided with credits instead.
In March, 1946, 140,000 prisoners-of-war were working on farms which earned the government $14 a week per prisoner, 24,000 on housing and bomb damage projects, 22,000 on the railways; others in odd jobs or waiting on G.I brides awaiting shipment to America."
According to Members of Parliament at the time, 130,000 German prisoners-of-war are held in Belgian camps. "The prisoners lived through the winter in tents and slept on bare ground under one blanket each. They say they are underfed and beaten and kicked by the guards. Many have no underclothes or boots.” - Chicago Tribune Service, London, May 19th 1946

"By mid-September, public indignation had reached such a pitch that the British War Office announced that plans were underway to release 15,000 prisoners per month, on a selective basis, and promises were made to improve conditions in the camps." - John Wilhelm, London, September 12th 1946

"When Press representatives ask to examine the prison camps, the British loudly refuse, with the excuse that the Geneva Convention bars such visits to prisoner-of-war camps." - Arthur Veysey, London, May 28th 1946

"... and in the case of France bringing in a handsome profit for the War Office. 'Upon embarking from our ports the prisoners were given to understand that they were being sent home; when they learned upon arrival at British and French ports that they were to be worked indefinitely as slaves, they became sullen. As one British officer said: 'It takes us several weeks to bring them around to where they will work hard.'
- Arthur Veysey, London, May 28th 1956. Chicago Tribune Press Service

"The official International Red Cross Report in August, 1946, showed that the United States Government, through its military branch in the German zone, was exacting forced labor from 284,000 captives, 140,000 of them in the occupation zone, 100,000 in France, 30,000 in Italy, and 14,000 in Belgium.” - John Thompson, Geneva, Chicago Tribune Press

"Our administration, along with our allies, both the godless ones and the professed Christians, is trying to turn the clock back to the times of Pagan Rome. It has undertaken to build a brave new world on the principles of anti-Christ."
- Uncle Sam. Slave Dealer, Chicago Tribune, February 20th 1946

According to the International Red Cross, slave holdings in other countries were; Yugoslavia 80,000, Belgium 48,000, Czechoslovakia 45,000, Luxembourg 4,000, and 14,000 in Belgium."
- John Thompson, Geneva, Chicago Tribune Press Service

The Chicago Tribune Press Service (Geneva. May 30th 1946) carried a pitiful story of how toys made by prisoners -of-war in American camps, cigarette rations, even hand-made shoes, were 'congesting warehouses here in Geneva' because the International Red Cross is not permitted to operate in defeated Germany and to distribute them to starving German families they are intended for."

Little wonder the great philosopher Friedrich Nietsche described England as 'The Land of Consumate Cant.;

[Howie]

Tribute to Anthony at slavery museum
Aug 16 2007
by Greg O'Keeffe, Liverpool Echo

A SECTION of Liverpool’s new International Slavery Museum is to be named after murdered black teenager Anthony Walker.

The hi-tech learning facility based at the global attraction will be called the Anthony Walker Education Centre in memory of the Huyton A-Level student who was killed in a racist attack near his home in July 2005.

It is hope it will provide a space for specially created education sessions about the legacy of racial intolerance left behind by the transatlantic slave trade.

The centre will also feature video footage about the murder, which took place near McGoldrick Park and was carried out by thugs Michael Barton and his cousin Paul Taylor.

Anthony’s mother, Gee Walker, said: “I’m grateful that the museum has decided to name one of its learning centres after Anthony. He would be incredibly proud.

“I have been lucky enough to have a preview of the museum and believe it is an incredibly vital local resource. It’s essential that we all learn from the past in order to build a better and more harmonious future.

“It is the goal behind the charitable foundation established in Anthony’s name and the museum itself.”

The International Slavery Museum will open in Liverpool on August 23 – Slavery Remembrance Day – a day that commemorates an uprising of enslaved Africans on the island of St Domingo (modern Haiti and the Dominican Republic) in 1791.

Bosses expect the museum to draw more than 200,000 visitors a year.

Schools, colleges, local communities and the general public will be able to take part in a range of programmes including workshops, lectures and debates.

Paul Khan, director of learning at National Museums Liverpool, said: “There is a synergy between the aims of the Anthony Walker Foundation and the International Slavery Museum in tackling the history of transatlantic slavery and its continuing legacy.

“In naming the centre we will help to keep Anthony’s name at the forefront of people’s minds.”

The museum will feature thought-provoking displays about the transatlantic slave trade and will address issues such as freedom, identity, human rights, reparations, racial discrimination and cultural change.

The museum will also seek to address ignorance and misunderstanding by looking at the deep and permanent impact of slavery and the slave trade on Africa, South America, the USA, the Caribbean and Western Europe.

Source: Liverpool Echo (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/08/16/tribute-to-anthony-at-slavery-museum-100252-19638361/)

[miguel]

- and if Anthony Walker had been a white kid slaughtered by a couple of black racist thugs the case would not have merited a paragraph in the Mersey Mart.
Who remembers the 16-year old boy, kicked and beaten to death by a gang of Asian youths just up the road in Warrington, and more recently? So many other young victims like him?
Racism is repellent in whatever form it takes but when it expresses outrage and creates monuments only for blacks killed by whites but not for whites killed by blacks it becomes the vilest form of racism imaginable.
A case could be made against the organisers of this 'exhibition based on race rather than the reality of the universal nature of slavery. I hope that day will come.
In September there's the anniversary of a great British battle which took place in the Mediterranean, to free thousands of white slaves from Africans.
Will we see a peep about it in the Press? Not on your life you won't. Their hypocrisy and double standards stinks to high heaven and screams for justice.

[shytalk]

Miguel, Speaking the truth like that will get you branded a racist.

[snappel]

"It is hope it will provide a space for specially created education sessions about the legacy of racial intolerance left behind by the transatlantic slave trade."
I disagree. The slave trade happened because there was racial intolerance in place. Racism today is born of fear of those who are different.

But still, I've had local black kids shout at me to 'go back where you came from' because I don't have a Scouse accent, and therefore don't 'sound like I'm from around here'. Funny that, how discrimination operates on so many different levels.

[Howie]

Museum tribute to Anthony Walker

A learning centre at a new Liverpool museum is to be dedicated to murdered teenager Anthony Walker.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41931000/jpg/_41931790_ant300.jpg
Anthony was murdered in a racist
attack in his local park

The Anthony Walker Education Centre will be based at the International Slavery Museum (http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/), which opens next week.

The centre will provide information about the legacy of racial intolerance left behind by the transatlantic slave trade.

Eighteen-year-old Anthony was killed in a racist attack in McGoldrick Park in Huyton, Merseyside, in July 2005.

'Incredibly proud'

Anthony's mother, Gee Walker, who set up the Anthony Walker Foundation in memory of her son, said: "I am grateful that the museum has decided to name one of its learning centres after Anthony.

"He would be incredibly proud. I have been lucky enough to have a preview of the museum and believe it is an incredibly vital resource.

"It is essential that we all learn from the past in order to build a better and more harmonious future. It is the goal behind the charitable foundation established in Anthony's name and the museum itself."

Paul Khan, director of learning at National Museums Liverpool, said: "The aims of the Anthony Walker Foundation and the International Slavery Museum are similar in that they both tackle the continuing legacy of racism and discrimination.

"In naming the centre we will help to keep Anthony's name at the forefront of people's minds and it will be associated with something that will have a positive impact."

The centre opens next Thursday, which is Slavery Remembrance Day (http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/srd/).

Source: BBC NEWS | Merseyside (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6949962.stm)

[Howie]

City slave master who saw the light
Aug 16 2007
Jade Wright Liverpool Echo

AS part of our series to mark the opening of the International Slavery Museum in Liverpool next week, Jade Wright reports on the anti-slavery message in one of our most popular hymns

“AMAZING grace, how sweet the sound...” So begins one of the most celebrated hymns of all time, a staple of many denominations and an anthem for the anti-slavery movement across the world.

The author of the words was Liverpool’s surveyor of tides John Newton, the self-proclaimed wretch who once was lost but then was found, the slaveship master who became a campaigner to end the slave trade.

The hymn describes his feelings about the slave trade while on his ship, the Greyhound, in 1748, and his conversion to Christianity.

The son of a merchant ship commander, Newton was born in 1725. His mother died soon afterwards, and he was taken to sea to learn the life of a sailor. By age of 11 he was already an accomplished seaman.

In 1743 Newton's father had planned for him to take up a position at a sugar plantation in Jamaica, but on his way he was pressed into naval service on a man-of-war, the HMS Harwich. Finding conditions on board intolerable, he deserted but was soon recaptured, publicly flogged and demoted from midshipman to common seaman.

Finally, at his own request he was exchanged into service on a slave ship, which took him to the coast of Sierra Leone.

He then became the servant of a slave trader and was brutally abused suffering starvation, illness and exposure. It was this period that Newton later remembered as the time he was "once an infidel and libertine, a servant of slaves in Africa."

Early in 1748 he was rescued by a sea captain who had known his father, and ultimately became captain of his own slave ship.

Returning to England aboard his slave trading ship Greyhound via the Atlantic triangle trade route, the ship and crew encountered a severe storm, which threatened to overwhelm them.

Newton awoke in the middle of the night and, as the vessel filled with water, fell to his knees and prayed for God’s mercy. As he said the Lord's prayer, the water began to leave the ship and the storm calmed.

It was this experience which he was later to mark as the beginning of his conversion to evangelical Christianity.

Even while the ship limped home in need of repair, and with little in the way of provisions, Newton began to read the Bible and, by the time they reached Britain, he had mentally assented to the doctrines of Christianity.

He began to believe that God had addressed him through the storm and that grace had begun to work for him.

For the rest of his life he observed the anniversary of May 10, 1748, as the day of his conversion, a day of humiliation in which he subjected his will to a higher power: "Thro' many dangers, toils and snares, I have already come; 'tis grace has bro't me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home."

On his return he traced and married Mary Catlett, with whom he had been in love for many years. He and took a job as Liverpool’s surveyor of tides, where he came to know George Whitefield, deacon in the Church of England, evangelistic preacher, and leader of the Calvinistic Methodist Church.

Newton became Whitefield's enthusiastic disciple. During this period Newton also met and came to admire John Wesley, founder of Methodism.

He decided to become a minister and applied to the Archbishop of York for ordination. His church on Olney, Buckinghamshire, became so crowded during services that it had to be enlarged.

He became well-known for the inspirational lyrics he wrote to accompany his sermons, including How Sweet the Name of Jesus Sounds and Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken, and what became Amazing Grace. Composed probably between 1760 and 1770, Amazing Grace was possibly one of the hymns written for a weekly service.

Through the years other writers have composed additional verses to the hymn, which came to be known as Amazing Grace, and possibly verses from other Newton hymns have been added.

The lyrics are based on I Chronicles 17:16, where King David marvels at God's choosing him and his house. However, these are the six stanzas that appeared, with minor spelling variations, in both the first edition in 1779 and the 1808 edition, the one nearest the date of Newton's death.

Many young churchmen and others enquiring about their faith visited Newton and sought advice from him.

They included the great and the good of Georgian society, among them the writer and philanthropist Hannah More and the young MP William Wilberforce, who had recently undergone a crisis of conscience and religious conversion experience, and was contemplating leaving politics.

Newton persuaded Wilberforce to continue his quest to end the slave trade through political force and "serve God where he was", rather than enter the ministry.

Wilberforce heeded the ex-slave ship captain's advice, and spent the next 20 years successfully working for the abolition of the slave trade in the British Empire.

Newton's lyrics have become a favourite for Christians, largely because the hymn vividly and briefly sums up the doctrine of divine grace.

The hymn was quite popular on both sides in the American Civil War. And while on the "trail of tears" the Native American Cherokee were not always able to give their dead a full burial. Instead, the singing of Amazing Grace had to suffice.

Since then the song is often considered like a Cherokee national anthem and many contemporary Native American musicians have recorded it.

In recent years, the song has also become popular in America with drug and alcohol recovery groups, particularly Christian ones, at celebrations of how they "once were lost, but now are found."

It has also become known as a favourite with supporters of freedom and human rights, because many assume it to be Newton’s testimony about his slave trading past.

Source: Liverpool Echo (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/08/16/city-slave-master-who-saw-the-light-100252-19645833/)

[snappel]

And so the 'slave trade' continues to be forced down our throats.

When will we get a decent museum dedicated to the efforts of the merchant navy during WW2? When is that U-boat going to be saved from being sliced up by Merseytravel?

[kat2]

Would have been nice to have had something about inventions rather than promoting racism or highlighting the issue personally, I cant see what good this will do? but, we did invent some good things.
kat:034:

[Howie]

Freedom! sculpture finds permanent home in major new slavery museum

http://www.alertnet.org/thefacts/imagerepository/fromthefield/118727144690__main.jpg

The Haitian Freedom! sculpture, commissioned by Christian Aid and National Museums Liverpool for its permanent home in the new International Slavery Museum, which opens on 23d August - the day Haitian slaves started their fight for freedom - becomes a key exhibit. It highlights the continuing struggle for freedom and human rights.

More (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/fromthefield/218275/11872714466.htm)...

[Howie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HS0JAkr2qE

[Howie]

Prezza sails in to remember slaves
Aug 18 2007
by Catherine Jones, Liverpool Echo

FORMER deputy prime minister John Prescott will sail into Liverpool tomorrow at the helm of a freedom ship.

The MP, who started his career as a liner steward, is on the Amistad together with old Cunard shipmates.

Liverpool teenager Michael Simon is also crewing the schooner, a reconstruction of the original ship commandeered by African captives in 1839.

It is taking part in the 16-month 14,000 mile Amistad Atlantic Freedom Tour to mark the bicentenary of the abolition of the slave trade.

It will arrive at the Albert Dock at 3.30pm to launch a week of events leading up to the opening of the International Slavery Museum on Thursday.

Mr Prescott is joined by 12 of his former crewmates from the MV Britannic.

The ‘Brit Lads’ first met in 1957 as stewards on the Liverpool to New York route.

Michael Simon is one of four students from the former slave ports of London, Liverpool and Bristol who helped sail the ship across the Atlantic from Connecticut.

The 19-year-old, from Toxteth, said: “I’d never done any sailing before, but towards the end we were practically running the ship.”

Mr Prescott said: “I sailed across the Atlantic from Liverpool many times as a seaman, but only on liners. I have an enormous respect for what these students have done.

“The Amistad incident is a truly inspiring story.”

The Amistad will stay in Liverpool until Sunday, August 26.

Source: Liverpool Echo (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/08/18/prezza-sails-in-to-remember-slaves-100252-19654404/)

[miguel]

Will there be any reference to the fact that the slave 'industry' couldn't have existed if it wasn't for the AFRICAN warlords who supplied the poor buggers to the ships anchored off the African coast? Of course not. In the new racism only whites can be rogues.

And will there be even a passing reference to the fact that many of the ship-owners at the time were Jewish rather than English or Liverpool traders? I don't think so.

I appeal to all honest men, of whatever race, to boycott this anti-white fest. Hypocrisy has to stop here.

[Howie]

I think the opening of a new International Museum in Liverpool is a local news story of sufficient significance to warrant a thread on this forum. It has certainly captured your interest Miguel. I am sure that readers of this thread will note your appeal.

[snappel]

I don't think it's anti-white. In fact, it's probably white 'do gooders' trying to make up for some feeling of guilt that they can't deal with. Like people who go to great lengths to give money to ungrateful rude, pestering beggars.

Why can't everyone just get over it? It's just so boring now.

[Libertarian]

Museum tribute to Anthony Walker

A learning centre at a new Liverpool museum is to be dedicated to murdered teenager Anthony Walker.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41931000/jpg/_41931790_ant300.jpg
Anthony was murdered in a racist
attack in his local park

The Anthony Walker Education Centre will be based at the International Slavery Museum (http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/), which opens next week.

The centre will provide information about the legacy of racial intolerance left behind by the transatlantic slave trade.

Eighteen-year-old Anthony was killed in a racist attack in McGoldrick Park in Huyton, Merseyside, in July 2005.

'Incredibly proud'

Anthony's mother, Gee Walker, who set up the Anthony Walker Foundation in memory of her son, said: "I am grateful that the museum has decided to name one of its learning centres after Anthony.

"He would be incredibly proud. I have been lucky enough to have a preview of the museum and believe it is an incredibly vital resource.

"It is essential that we all learn from the past in order to build a better and more harmonious future. It is the goal behind the charitable foundation established in Anthony's name and the museum itself."

Paul Khan, director of learning at National Museums Liverpool, said: "The aims of the Anthony Walker Foundation and the International Slavery Museum are similar in that they both tackle the continuing legacy of racism and discrimination.

"In naming the centre we will help to keep Anthony's name at the forefront of people's minds and it will be associated with something that will have a positive impact."

The centre opens next Thursday, which is Slavery Remembrance Day (http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/srd/).

Source: BBC NEWS | Merseyside (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6949962.stm)

The murder of Anthony Walker was a disgusting crime but I fail to see what it has to do with the slave trade?

Its like comparing the moors murders to the Norman Conquest?

[miguel]

Reported in the 'Maryland Gazette' Thursday 2 May 1754:

"John Hughes, living at the mouth of the Patapsco River, reports a runaway convict servant woman named Mary Burton, aged 36. She was wearing an iron collar."

Same newspaper, following the ill-fated Jacobite rebellion back in England:

Tuesday 21 July 1747:

"The ship 'Johnson', Captain Pemberton master, arrived at Oxford in Choptank from Liverpool on Thursday last, with 2 English and 106 Scotch rebels".

Tuesday 2 July 1747:

"A number of rebels bought over in the ship 'Johnson', into Oxford, have been brought to Annapolis and are now on sale there."

Tuesday 4 August 1747:

"The ship 'Gildart' Captain Holme, master, arrived on 26th July in Potomack with 82 rebels from Liverpool."

No mention of these unfortunates? Wrong colour? Racist b********

[miguel]

Here's how the system operated: When convicts were cleared out of Newgate or other provincial Bridewell's (like LIVERPOOL) there was a set routine, post 1718 the gaols were emptied two or three times a year, the guilty and innocent being shipped out regardless. Male 'convicts' were sold for about £10 each, a female 'convict' usually for between £8 and £9. If the establishment could prove that a man had a trade (a caprenter perhaps etc) he could be sold for anywhere between £15 and £20 in the market places of towns like Annapolis, Baltimore etc.
Before leaving England, the unfortunates were marched down to the riverside, chained to one another, counted and roll-called. More often than not if the convict ships were leaving from the port of London then prisoners from London and Middlesex would arrive several days before parties from other parts of the country. The transport ship would then be packed with these people and it would wait at anchor either in London or further down the Thames at Gravesend until her pethetic human cargo was complete.
The captain, jailer and carefully chosen witnesses would then sign a paper to the effect that all named offenders were indeed alive and on board, the paper was then forwarded to the treasury. Upon arrival in Virginia the captain would then sign a Certificate of Landing stating that he and what was left of his cargo had arrives, the certificate was subsequently despatched back to London. A large percentage of convicts died on route from lack of adequate food and water, disease etc. These squalid conditions were encouraged so that the old and infirm, who would not sell upon arrival would die en route and make room for those who could fill the coffers of the treasury.

In 1691, Newgate was emptied and prisoners shipped off to Jamaica and Barbados (the establishment's preferred destination for convict slaves prior to the actual colonies on the mainland taking off big time) for various crimes including:

Katherine Jones, spinster, and Elizabeth MacDonnell, spinster, for coin clipping.
Anne Yates, spinster, for burning Newgate Gaol
Anne Rogers of Ealing for coin clipping
Peter Desiong for highway robbery

17th May 1614:

"Helen Nutter, spinster of Charterhouse Lane, found not guilty of stealing but respited to prison to await transportation to the West Indies."

14th July 1614:

"Joan Samson of Whitechapel, spinster, found not guilty of stealing. Sentenced to the Bermudas."

Vagrants were taken from the streets to be sold to masters in the colonies:

8 August 1618:

"The following Bridewell prisoners to go to Virginia:
Robert Kinge, vagrant
John Bromley, vagrant
Thomas Otley, vagrant brought in from Cheap Ward
Jone Wenchman, vagrant brought in from Fleet Street
Andrew Nuttinge, vagrant, brought in from Fleet Street
Steven Reade, vagrant brought in from Lombard Street
William Poore, vagrant brought in from Lombard Street
Nicholas Longe, vagrant brought in from Lombard Street
Agnes Davis, vagrant brought in from Lombard Street
Jone Morgan, vagrant brought in from Lombard Street
Elizabeth Abbott, vagrant brought in from Lombard Street
Jone Fairchild, vagrant brought in from Lombard Street

24 August 1618:

"Griffin Beale, a vagrant brought in from the Middlesex House of Correction, born in Shoe Lane. For Virginia."

12 September 1618

"Bridewell, for Virginia:
George Geffrey, vagrant boy brought in from St Sepulchres
Richard Traverse, vagrant brought in from Leadenhall, born in Montgomeryshire"

Assuming that they survived the voyage, these people like many hundreds of others who would follow, would be put up on auction blocks and sold to the highest bidder upon arrival in the new colonies. Australia was not yet in vogue, the Americas were the destination of choice. Male slave labour to build the colonies, females as brood mares to populate it.

Maryland GazetteMay 20th 1746: "Esther Anderson was burned at Chester, Kent County, for the murder of her master."

[Max]

How do we know the Walker murder was racially motivated? People will kill regardless of skin colour.

The only evidence they had of racial motivation was run n word run or something wasn't It? Don't some murderers use any Insults they can to stir up what they do more?

Most murderers will kill someone regardless of skin colour or any other reason.

[Max]

I don't think it's anti-white. In fact, it's probably white 'do gooders' trying to make up for some feeling of guilt that they can't deal with. Like people who go to great lengths to give money to ungrateful rude, pestering beggars.

Why can't everyone just get over it? It's just so boring now.

Why should they have guilt for something our British ancestors did?

[Howie]

Black power: history's greatest black achievers

The International Slavery Museum (http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/) opens its doors in Liverpool next week with an exhibition naming history's greatest black achievers. Some are household names, others barely known. All are extraordinary. Playwright Kwame Kwei-Armah introduces the list in full...

news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article2872072.ece (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article2872072.ece)

[petromax]

[COLOR="Navy"]Here's how the system operated: When convicts were cleared out of Newgate or other provincial Bridewell's (like LIVERPOOL) there was a set routine, post 1718 the gaols were emptied two or three times a year, the guilty and innocent being shipped out regardless. Male 'convicts' were sold for about ...

COLOR]

Apparently only whites can be racist, just as an example (on UN World Conference Against Racism, Durban 2001):

"Anti-American and anti-Israel forces have tried to hijack the conference. Undermining Israel and the United States seems more important to these parties than the real achievements meant to benefit all...

Chief among such efforts has been the attempt to resurrect in a new form the charge that Zionism equals racism. In the draft document for the conference, phrases such as "racist practices of Zionism" and a description of Zionism as a movement "based upon elitism and racial superiority" are included. As the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. said in 1967, such language denies "the Jewish people . . . the fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord to all other nations of the globe. It is discrimination against the Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short it is anti-Semitism.""

The message is clear - If I am not white, I can't be racist, no matter what I say; and definitely if I am not Jewish or American in this case or I am not British in others (eg Zimbabwe) or I am not British or Afrikaans in South Africa

[miguel]

Here's a few more who are of no consequence to the white-hating liberals;

"Merchants Charles Dick, John Mitchell and Dr William Lynn of Fredericksburg report 3 runaway servent men: Daniel McGraw (a highlander who speaks broken English), John Ross (a highland boy, aged about 16, who speaks broken English) and Thomas Haily (an Irishman who speaks good English, aged about 21)." 24th March 1747:

"Richard Barnes in Richmond County, Virginia, reports two runaway convict servants: Thomas Rancome (aged about 30, a ditcher and well digger) and Elizabeth Williams alias Elizabeth Willoughby (aged about 25, a pretty tall woman)". 11th November 1747:

"John Langdale, tanner of Norfolk (co) reports a runaway servant named Margaret Barnes, a breeches maker, born in Exeter, England, commonly known as 'Hopping Peg'. Deliver to William Hudson, tanner in Philadelphia."
25th January 1753:

"David Currie, at The Glebe of Lancaster County, Virginia, reports a runaway convict servant woman named Sarah Knox, alias Sarah Howard, alias Sarah Wilson, born in Yorkshire. She says she was in the army for several years in Flanders and was at the Battle of Culloden where she lost her husband. She may be the same woman recently advertised in Chester County Pennsylvania, who was pretending to be Dr Charles Hamilton. When her gender was discovered, she said her name was Charlotte Hamilton. She was imported from Whitehaven in the 'Duke of Cumberland' along with William Forrester a convict who served with Dr Green in England."
16th July 1761:

"John Usher reports two runaway Welsh servant lads, brothers, from Captain James Cole's ship 'Princess Caroline', lying in South River. William Williams (aged about 20) and Thomas Williams (aged about 17)."

24 August 1618: "For Virginia: a little boy born in Houndsditch who says his mother dwells in the country at Westminster."

October 1618: "The City of London is to ship to Virginia 100 young boys and girls who lie starving in the streets."

19th October 1618: Letter to the Privy Council from Justices of the Peace in the county of Somersetshire:

"Owen Evans, pretending a commission to press maidens for the Bermudas and Virginia, has raised money thereby. He has frightened 40 away from one parish who have to such obscure places that their parents cannot find them."

The complete lack of interest (other than monetary) felt by the establishment for the unfortunate transportees is summed up by an event which took place in 1637. The 'Elizabeth' en route for America from London was captured by a man o' war from the Spanish West India Fleet and taken back to then hostile spain along with her human cargo. Parliament was 'surprised' to learn that the passengers were still prisoners of Spain in 1660 - 23 years later.
In a similar incident in 1636, the 'Little David' en route to Virginia carrying 50 males and 7 females for indentured service, was intercepted and captured by the Spanish just 35 miles off Lands End. The human cargo were sold as slaves, the English women in particular commanding a high price in the slave markets of the Mediterrannean.

[Paul D]

Amistad ship sails into city dock

A replica of the 19th Century slave ship, Amistad, is due at Liverpool docks as part of a 22,500km (14,000 mile) voyage.
The journey, which retraces the route of the slave trade, commemorates the 200th anniversary of the abolition of the slave trade in the British Empire.

Its visit is part of a series of events leading to Liverpool's International Slavery Museum opening on Thursday.

The ship is expected to arrive in Liverpool docks on Sunday afternoon.

On board will be four students from the former slave ports of London, Liverpool and Bristol who have helped to sail the ship across the Atlantic from her launch in New Haven, Connecticut, on 21 June.

Former Deputy Prime Minister and Cunard steward John Prescott MP is also set to tour the ship while it is docked in Merseyside.

Film adaptation

The Amistad, which arrived in Falmouth last Wednesday, is continuing its historic Atlantic Freedom Tour to mark the bicentenary of the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act.

From Liverpool it will then sail to Bristol and London.

During its stay in each port, the Amistad will be open for visits and lectures from the crew.

The history of the Amistad, whose name in Spanish means "friendship", was depicted in the film of the same name directed by Steven Spielberg in 1997.

It told the story of the ship in 1839 on which 53 slaves mutinied.

Slave trade 'triangle'

Although they were captured, they managed to win their freedom in a historic legal battle.

The replica of the Amistad is expected to take 16 months to retrace the slave trade triangle, which saw European traders export manufactured goods to West Africa, where they would be exchanged for slaves.

The slaves were then transported across the Atlantic and sold for huge profits in the Americas.

Traders used the money to buy raw materials such as sugar, cotton, coffee, metals and tobacco, which were shipped back to Europe.

When it leaves the UK the Amistad will sail to Lisbon, Madeira, Senegal and Sierra Leone, the west African home of the original slaves, before returning to the US in 2008 via the Caribbean.

[miguel]

AND MORE WHITE SLAVERY

BACKGROUND INFORMATION FOR THE LIFE OF AN INDENTURED SERVANT

By 1620, the Virginia Company had organized an effective system that enabled poorer Englishmen to sail for America. These Englishmen, often skilled workers that were victims of England's widespread unemployment, considered America as the Land of Opportunity. Company agents, as well as private recruiters, impressed Brits with promises of land and other benefits for several years of servitude. According to agents, benefits included, travel, trade, and land. Typically, the Virginia Company sent servants over to Virginia to be "sold" to planters, who would reimburse the Company for the servants' passages. More often than not, the indentured servants were shocked by their new conditions. Rather than finding venues in which they could practice their profession, like gardens and orchards, overseers marched servants out to the fields. Many died, attempted to return, or ran away. In addition to mistreatment, many servants also encountered contract extension, a popular punishment of planters for rowdy indentures. However, even the worst human abuses did not take the mortal tolls that the mere climate of Virginia claimed. The temperate springs and falls, and sweltering summers in the New World, created a market for fresh servants.

Due to the abundant land and the availability of a profitable staple crop tobacco, the demand for labor was high. In fact, one scholar estimates that 75% or more of Virginia's settlers in the seventeenth century were servants.
Sources: Dabney, V. (1971) Virginia: The New Dominion. Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press; Galenson, D.W. (1981) White Servitude in Colonial America, New York: Cambridge University Press; Smith, A.B. (1947) Colonists in Bondage, The University of North Carolina Press, North Carolina.

[Max]

I'd prefer If an International stereotype museum was built.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Like on South Park but that was a skit of the tolerance
museum:PDT_Aliboronz_24:.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_Camp_of_Tolerance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Tolerance

[kat2]

Opening date

The International Slavery Museum will open on Thursday 23 August 2007.
Opening times

There will be extended opening hours of 9.45am-7pm on Thursday 23 and Friday 24 August.

The museum will open early from 9.45am-5pm from Saturday 25 to Tuesday 28 August 2007.

From Wednesday 29 August 2007 the museum will be open daily 10am-5pm.

Closed from 2pm on 24 December and all day on 25 and 26 December and 1 January.
Free admission tickets
http://www.amistadamerica.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=40&Itemid=54
kat:)

[miguel]

I shall be giving this anti-white, racist, self flagellation-fest a miss thank you very much, miss.

[Howie]

And so the 'slave trade' continues to be forced down our throats.

When will we get a decent museum dedicated to the efforts of the merchant navy during WW2? When is that U-boat going to be saved from being sliced up by Merseytravel?

Snappel, I've just read that there are plans to raise another U-boat (the U-778 which lies 16 miles north-west of Malin Head, the most northerly tip of the Irish Republic) and make it a central attraction at the new maritime museum in Derry, (see here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/secondworldwar/story/0,,2152149,00.html)).

[Howie]

Amistad sails in with VIP seafarer
Aug 20 2007
by Vicky Anderson, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/article/11984189.jpeg

FORMER Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott braved rough seafaring conditions to join replica slave ship Amistad on its voyage into Liverpool.

The ship, in the city to coincide with the opening of the International Slavery Museum (http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/) on Thursday, came into the Albert Dock yesterday afternoon.

It was the end of a 48-day transatlantic journey for the Amistad, a reconstruction of the original ship that was commandeered by African captives in 1839.

Mr Prescott and his old “sea dog” friends from his days as a steward on the Cunard line made the trip despite it nearly being called off at the last moment for safety fears with the unseasonably cold and rainy weather making for an incredibly choppy Mersey.

In the absence of a proper gangway, he and his group decided not to miss the opportunity to jump on the Amistad regardless and make the journey as arranged.

It was an annual reunion for Mr Prescott and his old crewmates, all from the Merseyside area, and the first time they had met since the loss of their former colleague Owen Thompson, father of Liverpool Football Club player and coach Phil Thompson.

Mr Prescott said: “We were quite happy to accept the judgment of the captain of the ship getting on – everybody made it and it was a wonderful journey.

“This is a special day for many people and I want to thank the crew of the Amistad for letting some old sea dogs on board.

“We meet once a year, although usually for lunch on the Queen Mary – so we thought this year, let’s try the Amistad,” he joked.

Friend Peter Davenport, from Heswall, said: “It is always good for us to get together, as some of us go back 50 years.

“Hopping on board the Amistad was a little scary but apart from that it was worth it.

“The main thing for me was that to my shame I had never heard of the vessel and its story until today and it has been very informative – and the crew are a great bunch of people.”

Education is the main aim of Amistad America, currently on its Atlantic Freedom tour which ends in Sierra Leone, where slavery began.

Among the mostly American crew of 19 were three British students, including 19-year-old Michael Simon from Toxteth.

The Liverpool Community College student and youth carer – and first-time sailor – applied to join the crew after receiving an email from the Culture Company.

He was chosen to get involved and travelled with the ship from New Haven, in Connecticut, through Halifax in Canada and the Azores before coming home.

Last night he expressed his pleasure to be back in Liverpool but said he would love to join the Amistad for another leg.

He said: “It was terrifying at first and I can’t believe I’ve actually done it, but I’m so glad I did.

“The best parts for me were seeing dolphins and whales for the first time, steering the ship, and seeing England on the horizon as we were coming in.”

After crew and passengers disembarked, they assembled outside the Maritime Museum for speeches and thanks.

Mr Prescott spoke of his ambition in his new role as British representative of the Council of Europe to bring in new legislation to end the “modern day slavery” of human trafficking, and of his ongoing campaign for a national day marking the “evil” of slavery, which he said he had discussed with Prime Minister Gordon Brown and former PM Tony Blair before him.

Bill Minter, chair of Amistad America’s board of trustees, said: “This is a particularly significant day for us as it was the first opportunity to meet with Mr Prescott and thank him for the role he played in bringing this whole visitation about.

“We pride ourselves on being an education-based programme and it is our mission to work in improving race relations.

“Our work is a lesson in how much we have in common. Race is a very small part of our differences.”

Tony Tibbles, director of the Maritime Museum, added: “The fact that this is the first major port of call for the Amistad for its first time crossing the Atlantic is rather exciting and a great way to celebrate the opening of the International Slavery Museum.”

The museum opens on Thursday to coincide with Slavery Remembrance Day 2007, a day commemorating the uprising of African slaves on St Domingo in 1791.

It will address the legacy of transatlantic slavery and will work to fight racism through its own education programmes.

The Amistad will stay in Liverpool until Sunday, and every day except Friday it will be open to visitors.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/08/20/amistad-sails-in-with-vip-seafarer-64375-19660707/)

See also the 'Amistad ship sails into city dock' thread here (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5743)...

[miguel]

There's acres and acres of thiese heartrending accounts of WHITE slaves but as slaves with WHITE skins don't matter; qualification is a black skin and a WHITE owner, this may just bore the liberal-racists:

Many of the indentured servants passed fairly quietly through the records of their years at Hampton/ Northampton, reaching the ends of their period of servitude and passing on. Others, particularly those in the highly valued vocations, left more mark on the record. Short vignettes of John Willis and Martin Poltis illustrate the latter group. John Willis was purchased by Capt. Charles Ridgely from Stevenson, Randolph and [James] Cheston in June 1775 as an indentured servant. He was one of thirteen individuals sold at that time to Capt. Ridgely who paid L11 sterling each for eleven men and L7 each for two women. Willis had arrived in Captain Thomas Spencer's ship 'Elizabeth' from Bristol, one of 116 passengers of whom by October 1775 when the ship docked, three had died, 109 had been sold, three had paid their passage and one's account was still to be settled. A convict, Willis had been judged guilty of stealing chickens and transported from England the same year. His period of service is never stated but was clearly the usual seven years for a felon for he signed, with his mark, a receipt for his freedom dues on June 25 1782. The mark would signify that Willis was illiterate. From about 1780 a number of accounts in his name were recorded in ledgers for foodstuffs (bacon, mutton, wheat, corn) as well as whiskey, brandy, shoes, candles, rent etc. The credit side of these accounts makes it clear that Willis was a weaver. He produced a variety of common grade fabrics for company use: Negro cloth, linsey-woolsey, and jacket and blanket material. In December 1781 alone, Willis provided ninety-one yards of Negro cloth, sixty-three yards of osnaburg, and 30 yards of linsey-woolsey for furnace use. (33)

[petromax]

Being 'White on White' racism nobody seems to care. What about "Black on White" racism ? eg politically correct 'Positive' Discrimination forcing out white population in certain countries.

[Howie]

Museum focuses on slavery

Helen Carter
Tuesday August 21, 2007
The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)

The murdered black teenager Anthony Walker features in the International Slavery Museum (http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/ism/), which opens this week in Liverpool.

Anthony's mother, Gee Walker, gave her blessing to the inclusion of her son's story at the museum, on the third floor of Liverpool's Maritime Museum. Anthony, who was murdered in a racist attack two years ago, is featured in an exhibit about discrimination along with a montage including black heroes Malcolm X and Nelson Mandela.

The museum is to have a state of the art learning facility named after the teenager. The opening of the museum, on Thursday, coincides with the bicentenary of the abolition of the British slave trade.

The museum also contains a powerful and horrific image of a black woman, Laura Nelson, who had been lynched in Oklahoma in May 1911. Nearby is a photograph of a white mob, some of whom are smiling, standing by the burning corpse of William Brown, who had been seized from a prison, hanged from a lamp-post before being riddled with bullets and burned.

The disturbing photographs are in the racism and discrimination section of the museum, near to a Ku Klux Klan robe.

A wall is dedicated to 76 black achievers.

Richard Benjamin, head of the International Slavery Museum, said the museum had not been universally welcomed.

"It is not just about the historical dimension," he said. "It is about the ramifications, such as the recent racial incident - the murder of a young black man in Liverpool. We believe the museum will fight racism and challenge stereotypical views. It is highlighting the resistance of the African people and showing that they weren't passive in the slave trade."

During the 18th century, Liverpool was Britain's main slaving port and over a 107-year-period it carried 1.5 million Africans into slavery.

Source: Guardian Unlimited (http://arts.guardian.co.uk/art/news/story/0,,2152871,00.html)

[miguel]

Yeah Yeah! It continues unabated, the canonisation of Anthony Walker from those sniffily indifferent to the murder of whites by coloured individuals and gangs. Another one in Greater Manchester days ago; another one fighting for his life. Someone has got to put a stop to this anti-white racism.

[Howie]

Slavery museum to 'have international presence'
Aug 21 2007
by Liza Williams, Liverpool Daily Post

Museum staff forge international links and freedom icons visit Liverpool, as Liza Williams discovered on her preview tour

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/article/11984717.jpeg

LIVERPOOL’S new slavery museum will have a global presence, sending exhibits and curators to tell people in Africa and the Caribbean about lessons the city has learned from history.

More (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/08/21/our-slave-history-goes-out-to-world-64375-19665339/)...

[A.D.W]

I wonder if Kriss Donald, Ross Parker, Richard Whelan or Christopher Yates have any state of the art learning facilities named after them?

How is a 21st-century white-on-black killing with a supposed racial element relevant to slavery? Where are the blacks protesting at the implied racism here?

[snappel]

I don't know. It's two different issues. The slave trade was down to basic human greed, both here, in America and in Africa.

Anthony Walker's savage killing was down to thick malicious morons with no other way of getting satisfaction in life.

[miguel]

For decades White people have been subjected to a continual barrage from Blacks and others that you and I are somehow "responsible" for the African slave trade and that we need to "atone" for our "guilt."
There are a number of flaws with the idea that we are somehow "responsible" for the African slave trade. First of all, very few White people even owned slaves-slavery was a rich man's pursuit and slavery did not exist amongst the middle and working classes of White people. Second even if every one of us had an ancestor who owned slaves (which is an extremely unlikely proposition), it makes little sense to blame the children for the supposed sins of their fathers. Third of all, it is a fact that Blacks sold their own kind into slavery. As this is the case, Blacks are every bit as much to blame for slavery as are Whites. Fourth, European Whites did not exclusively bring the slaves to the Americas. On the contrary, many of the ship owners and financiers, plantation owners were Jewish by race, as the great black American, Louis Fahrakkan has also pointed out. So, there is nothing whatsoever to feel guilty about concerning slavery and it is time to quit apologizing for something others are responsible for.
Besides, approximately six hundred thousand White soldiers died in the American Civil War. Have you ever heard of Blacks paying homage to or thanking these men? No, we thought not.

[Max]

[QUOTE]For decades White people have been subjected to a continual barrage from Blacks and others that you and I are somehow "responsible" for the African slave trade and that we need to "atone" for our "guilt." [QUOTE]

I don't know why so many of them think that way.

How can we have guilt for ancestors?

[miguel]

If you are 62 or over this happened in your lifetime. Younger, your mum and dad's lifetime.
The quotation is that of U.S General Patton. He was commenting on the transfer of 5,000,000 (yes, FIVE MILLION) Germans, many of them civilians, shipped to the Soviet Union AS SLAVES in 1945 / 1946. Very few returned. The sheeple don't get that in their daily read:
"I am frankly opposed to this war criminal stuff . It is not cricket and is Semitic. I am also opposed to sending POW's to work as slaves in foreign lands, where many will be starved to death."
Millions more were used as slaves by the western victors; grossly illegal under international law.

[Steven]

[QUOTE]For decades White people have been subjected to a continual barrage from Blacks and others that you and I are somehow "responsible" for the African slave trade and that we need to "atone" for our "guilt." [QUOTE]

I don't know why so many of them think that way.

How can we have guilt for ancestors?

Gives a big handclap for Max.

Spot on mate :handclap:

[A.D.W]

If you are 62 or over this happened in your lifetime. Younger, your mum and dad's lifetime.
The quotation is that of U.S General Patton. He was commenting on the transfer of 5,000,000 (yes, FIVE MILLION) Germans, many of them civilians, shipped to the Soviet Union AS SLAVES in 1945 / 1946. Very few returned. The sheeple don't get that in their daily read:
"I am frankly opposed to this war criminal stuff . It is not cricket and is Semitic. I am also opposed to sending POW's to work as slaves in foreign lands, where many will be starved to death."
Millions more were used as slaves by the western victors; grossly illegal under international law.

Quite so. 'Six million' Jews are killed and the world is up in arms yet millions of Germans are worked to death and nobody bats an eyelid.

General Patton had the right idea. Arm the defeated German armies and, with the Allies, kick back the Red armies back to the Urals!! Of course Patton died soon after airing these comments in a car crash.

Whoops!!

:disgust:

[gerrydoyle]

Yeah Yeah! It continues unabated, the canonisation of Anthony Walker from those sniffily indifferent to the murder of whites by coloured individuals and gangs. Another one in Greater Manchester days ago; another one fighting for his life. Someone has got to put a stop to this anti-white racism.

This thread seems to have deteriorated into hysterical boll*cks.

Just who are these people who are 'sniffily indifferent' to the murder of anyone? Evidence? Justification?

Anthony Walker was the innocent victim of mindless thugs who targeted him because of the colour of his skin. Whatever point you are trying to make by referencing him in your sloppy diatribe is not only inane but tasteless in the extreme.

Most of the violence that you refer to has been reported as gang-related, I have seen no suggestion anywhere that there was an (anti-white) racist element in the crimes.

Racism exists the world over and in every ethnic group, it's a fact, we all know it. But to suggest that white people (the overwhelming majority of the British population ) face anything like the racism endured on a daily basis by ethnic minorities is just ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as using the suffering of indentured servants to diminish the wrongs inflicted upon slaves.

As a final point, use of the word 'coloured' in this context is both offensive and racist. The best way to fight racism - of all kinds - is to promote respect for others. Let's start here shall we?

[A.D.W]

This thread seems to have deteriorated into hysterical boll*cks.

Just who are these people who are 'sniffily indifferent' to the murder of anyone? Evidence? Justification?

Anthony Walker was the innocent victim of mindless thugs who targeted him because of the colour of his skin. Whatever point you are trying to make by referencing him in your sloppy diatribe is not only inane but tasteless in the extreme.

Most of the violence that you refer to has been reported as gang-related, I have seen no suggestion anywhere that there was an (anti-white) racist element in the crimes.

Racism exists the world over and in every ethnic group, it's a fact, we all know it. But to suggest that white people (the overwhelming majority of the British population ) face anything like the racism endured on a daily basis by ethnic minorities is just ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as using the suffering of indentured servants to diminish the wrongs inflicted upon slaves.

As a final point, use of the word 'coloured' in this context is both offensive and racist. The best way to fight racism - of all kinds - is to promote respect for others. Let's start here shall we?

If you don't like the 'way' this thread is going then you are 'free' not to read it.

[gerrydoyle]

If you don't like the 'way' this thread is going then you are 'free' not to read it.

Thanks.

I'm also free to point out brainless, racist nonsense when I see it.

In fact. not staying quiet about it is the best way to make sure we all stay 'free'.

[Howie]

UNESCO SLAVERY REMEMBRANCE - INTERNATIONAL SLAVERY MUSEUM REVEALED
By Jon Pratty 21/08/2007

24 Hour Museum Editor Jon Pratty meets Dr Richard Benjamin, Head of the International Slavery Museum as the new museum is revealed prior to opening on August 23 2007.

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2007_3489.JPG
The Middle Passage Gallery, International Slavery Museum © Jon Pratty / 24Hour Museum

National Museums Liverpool (NML) opens the International Slavery Museum on Slavery Remembrance Day, August 23 2007, with an ambitious mission to use the museum to explore not just the abolition of slavery but also wider issues around racism through history.

It's a bold move and as you move through the three purpose-built areas in the museum, which is on the top floor of the Merseyside Maritime Museum, the scale of the challenge becomes clear.

The new museum replaces the Transatlantic Slavery Gallery, which opened in 1994. The new museum goes further, according to Richard Benjamin, Director of the International Slavery Museum.

"This new museum is very much a statement, it's more contemporary, more challenging, something living and breathing, rather than something historically-based."

August 23 was chosen by UNESCO as International Slavery Day to commemorate the uprising by enslaved Africans on the island of St Domingo in 1791. The uprising took place in what is now modern Haiti, and the Dominican Republic. The date was chosen as a reminder that enslaved Africans were the main agents of their own liberation.

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2007_3488.JPG
A life-size recreation of a Nigerian Igbo compound © Jon Pratty / 24Hour Museum

The first exhibition area takes you to Africa, to get a feel for the culture and experience that many people, men, women and children, were forcibly removed from.

Visitors can see the domestic compound of a tribal elder from the Nigerian Igbo people. It's not intended to be totally authentic, rather to be an interpretation. It was built by a Liverpool artist working with a London-based Nigerian artist.

Secondly the Middle Passage Gallery is where the full horror of the slavery experience can be seen, in the form of dramatisations vividly realised on giant screens, supported by powerful objects from the NML collections that reinforce the experience.

Chains, manacles and sinister contraptions that lock around the head of the enslaved human can be seen, as well as model slave ships, and contemporary paintings of Liverpool in the pomp of its heyday as one of the busiest slaving ports in the world. This part of the museum illustrates the mechanisms and commerce of this evil practice in vivid ways.

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2007_3486.JPG
Model of a Caribbean plantation where archaeolgists are examining the actuality of the horror of slavery © Jon Pratty / 24Hour Museum

With the University of Southampton, National Museums Liverpool are conducting new archaeological investigations into plantation sites. Led by Dr Rob Philpott from the museum, the work has so far been concerned with fieldwork, but digging will begin soon. A model of a plantation is on show based on the team's research on St Kitts, in the Caribbean.

"This is the physical context of slavery," said Dr Philpott. "It's important that we don't try to romanticise the subject. I was, quite frankly, disgusted that people could do this to each other."

Lastly there's a fascinating section of the museum where the reality of slavery and the continuing experience of modern cultures and racism are entwined and explored through music, exhibits and more interactives and films.

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2007_3484.JPG
Klu Klux Klan costume made in the 1950s © Jon Pratty / 24Hour Museum

According to Richard Benjamin, one of the most chilling items on display came to the museum quite by chance. "A gentleman contacted me asking if we would be interested in this Klu Klux Klan outfit. It had belonged to a member of his family. A member of the museum staff flew over to the States to examine and authenticate it. Ironically, it's not from the south, it's from the northern states. It's quite shabby, quite chilling, probably home-made."

"This is one of our most challenging sections in the museum," said Richard Benjamin as he toured the exhibition. There's a police riot helmet of the sort used during the Toxteth riots. Multimedia presentations show film of the Black Panthers in the US and riots in the UK, but also on display there's a wall dedicated to 76 Black Achievers, past and present.

"We're not a museum of abolitionism, we're a museum about slavery, about the fight for freedom and equality and we're a living, breathing museum so we'll change the faces on display."

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2007_3487.JPG
There's a wall dedicated to black achievers, past and present. © Jon Pratty / 24Hour Museum

"We're a living and breathing museum and we think one of our roles will be to make good links internationally," Richard Benjamin explained. "It's all about making new links, new collaborative projects."

Benjamin is keen to take a touring exhibition around African and Caribbean museums. "I like the idea of having a National Museum Liverpool and International Slavery Museum presence around the world. People shouldn't necessarily have to travel all the way to Liverpool to see us."

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2007_3485.JPG
Part of a multimedia presentation at the museum about the death of Anthony Walker and it's repercussions on Merseyside. © Jon Pratty / 24Hour Museum

Integrated into the museum is the Anthony Walker Education Centre, dedicated to the Merseyside teenager murdered in 2005. The centre will provide a space for education work about the legacy of racial intolerance left behind by the transatlantic slave trade.

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2007_3482.JPG
Artist André Eugène was one of the team that created the Freedom Sculpture © Jon Pratty / 24Hour Museum

Also included in the museum is a thought-provoking sculpture made by a group of four young Haitian artists. The Freedom Sculpture was commissioned by Christian Aid and NML, and highlights the continuing struggle for freedom and human rights. Haiti was the first independent black republic, set up in 1084, but it remains one of the world's poorest countries.

The Freedom Sculpture was made from recycled objects like car parts found in the streets and slums of the Haiti capital, Port-au-Prince. The four artists, led by Mario Benjamin, worked with other youths, part of a youth project run by Christian aid partner organisation APROSIFA.

The museum was awarded £1.65m by the Heritage Lottery Fund in November 2005. Additional funds come from the Department of Culture Media and Sport (DCMS) and the North West Regional Development Agency.

A second phase of the museum, a Research and Resource Centre is planned to open in 2010. Here visitors will be able to explore issues discovered in the museum, using an archive, community zone, reference library, internet access and a learning suite.

International Slavery Museum, Liverpool (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/museum/AM43115.html)
3rd Floor of Merseyside Maritime Museum, Albert Dock, L3 4AQ, Liverpool, England
T: 0151 478 4574
Open: This new museum will open on 23 August 2007. There will be extended opening hours of 9.45am-7pm on Thursday 23 and Friday 24 August. The museum will open early from 9.45am-5pm from Saturday 25 to Tuesday 28 August 2007.From Wednesday 29 August 2007 the museum will be open daily 10am-5pm.
Closed: Closed from 2pm on 24 December and all day on 25 and 26 December and 1 January.

Related Articles

UNESCO Slavery Remembrance - Amistad Arrives At Liverpool Docks (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART49856.html)

Liverpool Slavery Museum Tribute To Anthony Walker (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART49785.html)

Minister Presents Wilberforce Slave Trade Act To Amistad Schooner (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART48297.html)

News In Brief - Week Ending June 10 2007 (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART47824.html)

The Bicentenary Of The Abolition Of The Slave Trade (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART45540.html)

Sculpture From Haiti Slums Commemorates Slave Trade Abolition (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART44307.html)

Liverpool Commemorates The 1807 Abolition Of The Slave Trade (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART44244.html)

Source: 24 Hour Museum (http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART49897.html)

[Howie]

‘Calypso King’ hails slavery museum
Aug 23 2007
by Liza Williams, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/article/11985540.jpeg

THE world renowned ‘King of Calypso’ was in Liverpool yesterday to raise awareness about the legacy of the slave trade.

Singer turned social activist Harry Belafonte travelled across the Atlantic to visit Liverpool’s new International Slavery Museum (ISM), which is set to open to the public today.

More (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/08/23/calypso-king-hails-slavery-museum-64375-19675054/)...

[PhilipG]

With it being called the "International" Museum of Slavery, I wonder if there is going to be any mention of Dr Barnardo's shipping "Orphan" boys off to work on farms in Canada?
In a lot of cases the "Orphans" still had at least one parent in the UK, and sisters and brothers who they were separated from.
Nobody had any choice, and the girls were "put into service".
With the perpetrators and victims being white, it wasn't called "slavery", but I can't see much difference between working on a farm in Canada (against your will), than working on a cotton plantation.
This was still going on in the 20th century, as it affected my Grandmother's brothers.

[gerrydoyle]

I can't see much difference between working on a farm in Canada (against your will), than working on a cotton plantation.


The difference is pretty straight forward. Being a slave meant that you were not a human being, you were a piece of property - no different to a horse, a wagon or a shovel

As a slave you could be bought, sold, abused and disposed of at the whim of your owner. And if you attempted to escape? Well then you could be beaten and killed with no questions asked.

The exploitation of children in the colonies was dispicable but it in no way was it the same as slavery.

Not convinced? Why not take a trip to the new museum?

[gerrydoyle]

A bold step away from the dead end of guilt and apology


Liverpool's new slavery museum embodies an approach to the past that moves beyond the tired old reparations debate

Tristram Hunt
Thursday August 23, 2007
The Guardian


From the Pier Head to St George's Hall via Jamaica Street, slavery is etched into the very fabric of Liverpool. At its peak, the city controlled 80% of the B ritish slave trade, dispatching thousands of ships across the Atlantic and murdering tens of thousands of Africans in the process. Today, Liverpool confronts this past by opening the world's first International Slavery Museum. It is a fitting tribute to this year's highly successful reflection on the bicentenary of the abolition of the slave trade.

Eighteen months ago, on these pages, I suggested we needed to be "easy on the euphoria" when it came to marking 1807. On the one hand, the ending of the slave trade was a proud moment in British history: the product of great moral bravery, a mobilised civil society and an evangelical mindset. On the other hand, too many institutions were tainted with its blood (from the Church of England to the royal family), slavery continued in British colonies until the mid-1830s, and racist ideologies only intensified during the 19th century.
There was a balance in the historical ledger to be struck between the heroism of Wilberforce and Georgian society's collective sanction of the triangle trade. Across our museums, galleries and even the houses of parliament, that equivocation has been evident in numerous pioneering exhibits. The Uncomfortable Truths installation at the Victoria and Albert Museum - which saw Romuald Hazoumé's haunting sculpture of African jerry cans dominate the Italianate splendour of the V&A courtyard - was an excellent example of a cultural institution investigating the legacy of slavery in its own collections.

In Bristol and London, museums have looked at their city's economic development on the back of slavery. Just as importantly, in its Cotton Threads exhibition, Bury Art Gallery and Museum has used the records of the local Hutchinson family to explore the vital connection of the north-west textile industry to slavery. And, at last, the African voice has started to be heard. Rightly, Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery is focusing on Olaudah Equiano and how he turned the West Midlands into a centre of anti-slavery activism, paving the way for other black abolitionists, including Frederick Douglas, Booker T Washington and Amanda Smith.

Equally encouraging has been the involvement of the Historic Houses Association in the commemorations. From William Blathwayt's Dyrham Park to Edwin Lascelles's Harewood House, blood money from ships, slaves and sugar plantations was laundered through England's most sumptuous country seats. And now their modern custodians have sought to explore their historic origins within a global nexus of slavery. Tissington Hall in Derbyshire has hosted Bittersweet - an exhibition looking at West Indian plantation life and the funnelling of profits into the FitzHerbert family. Kenwood House in London has focused on the multicultural tale of Lord Chief Justice Mansfield and his African great niece, Dido Elizabeth Belle.

This progressive, rigorous approach to the past has led the debate away from the dead end of apologies and guilt. While the media has obsessed about the precise wording of the government's "expression of regret", community groups and educational workers have got on with explaining the history and its meanings. Indeed, there now seems a far greater concern with addressing modern-day slavery and trafficking than the tired old reparations argument.

Given that Liverpool boasts one of the oldest black communities in Britain, it is right the conversation culminates in Merseyside. The city once laid claim to the largest fleet of slave ships in the history of the trade as its merchants overtook Bristol and London in dominating the Middle Passage. Some 5,000 ships sailed from the city in the 18th century and the multi-storeyed merchants' houses of Bold Street (named after slave trader and city mayor Jonas Bold) testified to the healthy returns from human trafficking. The frieze of the town hall, with its exotic, "African" iconography of elephants, lions and slaves, embodied the city's official sanction of slavery. Notoriously, Liverpool voted out the abolitionist MP William Roscoe and supported the slave-owning south during the American civil war.

Today, elements of that racist bequest live on. The murder of black teenager Anthony Walker and the unwelcome appearance of the BNP have revealed the danger. And inner-city communities are struggling this summer with a noxious cocktail of guns, gangs and joblessness. Which is why the International Slavery Museum's commitment to challenging the legacies of slavery is so important.

The commemoration's payoff should not come in the form of shiny buildings and curatorial posts but in new audiences and appreciations of the past. And in contrast to other former slave-trading European nations we are a long way down that road. But the heritage sector also needs to be more ambitious with this history: to think globally and develop stronger connections in the Caribbean and west Africa.

Ultimately, all the 1807 activities should echo the horribly prophetic words of former slave William Prescott. "They will remember that we were sold but they won't remember that we were strong. They will remember that we were bought, but not that we were brave." Hopefully, Liverpool represents a further step in proving him wrong.

[PhilipG]

The difference is pretty straight forward. Being a slave meant that you were not a human being, you were a piece of property - no different to a horse, a wagon or a shovel

As a slave you could be bought, sold, abused and disposed of at the whim of your owner. And if you attempted to escape? Well then you could be beaten and killed with no questions asked.

The exploitation of children in the colonies was dispicable but it in no way was it the same as slavery.

Not convinced? Why not take a trip to the new museum?


Not slavery?
Everythng you mentioned above happened to the children, except killing, and it wouldn't have made economic sense to kill slaves anyway.
They were "owned" by Dr Barnardo's. (The parents had to sign over all their rights).
And remember, it was all still going on 100 years after the abolition of (black) slavery.

[gerrydoyle]

Not slavery?
Everythng you mentioned above happened to the children, except killing, ...And remember, it was all still going on 100 years after the abolition of (black) slavery.


And when they reached the age of majority? What happened then? I don't recall them being sold.

What is depressing in the tone of these posts is the attempt to score pathetic black vs white points.

The suffering that you're referencing was the result of a policy that was relatively short-lived and affected a few thousand people. Was it abominable? Absolutely. Can it be equated to the massive, systematic exploitation of one race by another over an extended period? Of course it can't.

[PhilipG]

And when they reached the age of majority? What happened then? I don't recall them being sold.

What is depressing in the tone of these posts is the attempt to score pathetic black vs white points.

The suffering that you're referencing was the result of a policy that was relatively short-lived and affected a few thousand people. Was it abominable? Absolutely. Can it be equated to the massive, systematic exploitation of one race by another over an extended period? Of course it can't.

The age of majority is about the only difference.
Besides, they were probably getting too expensive to keep by then - much better to get a fresh supply of children.
A child doesn't eat as much, and can be controlled more easily, and isn't free.
I'm not trying to score points (and I resent the [pathetic] accusation).
Any kind of keeping people against their will is wrong, but you seem unable to accept that white on white slavery existed until well after white on black slavery was abolished.
And, of course, in some countries it still exists.
But no doubt you deny that as well?

[gerrydoyle]

The age of majority is about the only difference.
Besides, they were probably getting too expensive to keep by then - much better to get a fresh supply of children.
A child doesn't eat as much, and can be controlled more easily, and isn't free.
I'm not trying to score points (and I resent the [pathetic] accusation).
Any kind of keeping people against their will is wrong, but you seem unable to accept that white on white slavery existed until well after white on black slavery was abolished.
And, of course, in some countries it still exists.
But no doubt you deny that as well?


Here's the thing, there is a vast difference between forced labour and slavery.

You say 'the age of majority is about the only difference', well it's a pretty fundamental difference. It's the difference between putting a bad childhood experience behind you and taking control of your life or being treated as a chattel, a sub-human object until the end of your days.

Do I deny that slavery still exists in some parts of the world? Of course not. Why would I?

[A.D.W]

Thanks.

I'm also free to point out brainless, racist nonsense when I see it.

In fact. not staying quiet about it is the best way to make sure we all stay 'free'.

Shizzle!!

I might just go and see this here Slavery Museum after work on the morrow just to see what all the fuss is about. It's open till 7pm on friday?

[PhilipG]

Shizzle!!

I might just go and see this here Slavery Museum after work on the morrow just to see what all the fuss is about. It's open till 7pm on friday?

It might be advisable to phone first.
I went today (to the shop, actually), and it looks like you have to book a particular time, and today's were all booked up in advance.
You can buy an "International Slavery Museum" mug for a fiver.
The only colour available is black.

[A.D.W]

It might be advisable to phone first.
I went today (to the shop, actually), and it looks like you have to book a particular time, and today's were all booked up in advance.
You can buy an "International Slavery Museum" mug for a fiver.
The only colour available is black.

Oh! Thanks for the information. I'll leave it until next week then.

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[Libertarian]

41794178

[gerrydoyle]

IYou can buy an "International Slavery Museum" mug for a fiver.
The only colour available is black.

There we have it. Why don't we just cut the crap and admit that you clearly have a problem with black people?

I think the appropriate phrase is Peckerwood.

[A.D.W]

I think the appropriate phrase is Peckerwood.

Oh! How very racist of you, Gerry!

:)

[gerrydoyle]

Not racist but I am decidedly moronist. Anyway it's white on white derision, so that's ok, right? :retard:

[Libertarian]

Do you think we should open a museum to homophobia in Kingston Gerry?

[A.D.W]

Not racist but I am decidedly moronist. Anyway it's white on white derision, so that's ok, right? :retard:

I see. You lose the argument so resort to the insult.

Burp.

[gerrydoyle]

I see. You lose the argument so resort to the insult.

What argument? The posts speak for themselves, there is no 'argument' just a bunch of paranoid blather and a stream of thinly disguised prejudice.

It was more irony than insult btw...

[gerrydoyle]

Do you think we should open a museum to homophobia in Kingston Gerry?

Not sure I follow, care to elaborate?

[PhilipG]

Dear me, Gerry, you're getting all in a dither.
The Maritime Museum are selling black mugs at a fiver each.
Should I say they're coloured?

The colour has absolutely nothing to do with me.
Take it up with the Museum. :eek:

[gerrydoyle]

Repartee worthy of Big Bernard himself. Post mortem obviously...

[Max]

This thread seems to have deteriorated into hysterical boll*cks.

Just who are these people who are 'sniffily indifferent' to the murder of anyone? Evidence? Justification?

Anthony Walker was the innocent victim of mindless thugs who targeted him because of the colour of his skin. Whatever point you are trying to make by referencing him in your sloppy diatribe is not only inane but tasteless in the extreme.

Most of the violence that you refer to has been reported as gang-related, I have seen no suggestion anywhere that there was an (anti-white) racist element in the crimes.

Racism exists the world over and in every ethnic group, it's a fact, we all know it. But to suggest that white people (the overwhelming majority of the British population ) face anything like the racism endured on a daily basis by ethnic minorities is just ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as using the suffering of indentured servants to diminish the wrongs inflicted upon slaves.

As a final point, use of the word 'coloured' in this context is both offensive and racist. The best way to fight racism - of all kinds - is to promote respect for others. Let's start here shall we?

If Walker wasn't there to be targetted they probably would of targetted someone else there regardless of If they were Chinese or whatever.

The Media like on the news does seem to miss out a lot of other facts like about how the Black leaders were selling off their own people. Why are certain things left out? Why do they only mention how whites were doing most of the work?

Whites are facing discrimination In the media when the Slave trade Is being talked about by leaving out facts.

[PhilipG]

Repartee worthy of Big Bernard himself. Post mortem obviously...

So you're a big fan of Bernard Manning then?
Before you insult me any more, I'd like to say I'm about as much a racist as you are a Manning fan.
All this, Gerry, because I had the temerity to say that my great-uncles (as children) were the 20th century equivalent of slaves.

[gerrydoyle]

If Walker wasn't there to be targetted they probably would of targetted someone else there regardless of If they were Chinese or whatever.

Whites are facing discrimination In the media when the Slave trade Is being talked about by leaving out facts.


If you go back and look at the case you will see he was targeted pretty much entirely because he was black. Targeted by brain-dead wasters who didn't want 'his sort' around here. The sort of ill-educated, no-hopers who need to block out their own inadequacy with a fuzzy, hateful and entirely imagined superiority over people of other races.

If the worst thing that ever happens to you is that you suffer the discrimination commonly experienced by the British white man, then you have indeed been truly blessed.

[gerrydoyle]

Not sure a re-reading of the posts would support that.

[Max]

If you go back and look at the case you will see he was targeted pretty much entirely because he was black. Targeted by brain-dead wasters who didn't want 'his sort' around here. The sort of ill-educated, no-hopers who need to block out their own inadequacy with a fuzzy, hateful and entirely imagined superiority over people of other races.

If the worst thing that ever happens to you is that you suffer the discrimination commonly experienced by the British white man, then you have indeed been truly blessed.

They would of targetted a white person too If they were there, didn't his friends go off for help and one was white? If they were with Walker too they would of been targeted too.

How Is any form of discrimination a blessing?

[gerrydoyle]

They would of targetted a white person too If they were there, didn't his friends go off for help and one was white? If they were with Walker too they would of been targeted too.

How Is any form of discrimination a blessing?


Tell you what, why don't you just pop into the museum and take a look at the exhibit about the murder and its circumstances, I'm sure it will provide you with the details of the racist nature of the crime.

As for 'How Is any form of discrimination a blessing?' erm, irony?

The idea that British whites are being discriminated against in any way that compares to discrimination suffered by other races in this country is just laughable.

[Max]

Tell you what, why don't you just pop into the museum and take a look at the exhibit about the murder and its circumstances, I'm sure it will provide you with the details of the racist nature of the crime.

As for 'How Is any form of discrimination a blessing?' erm, irony?

The idea that British whites are being discriminated against in any way that compares to discrimination suffered by other races in this country is just laughable.

Why pop Into a Museum when I can google all this Info? Maybe they hated blacks but being black doesn't make It racially motivated, they were obviously sick natured regardless. They said the N word but don't murderers use any convenient taunts when chasing their victims?

Wheres the Irony? I was saying the media Is discriminating whites but I did not say white discrimination Is worse than what blacks or any other skin colours have suffered.

Any discrimination Is bad, whites speaking out about lesser cases doesn't make It laughable.

There was a case a year or so ago where a white man was killed on a bus by a black man because he stood up to them because they were throwing chips at him and I don't think they called that racist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_4480000/newsid_4489300/4489328.stm

Whites have suffered as much In this country as any other minority, It Is not laughable.

[gerrydoyle]

All this, Gerry, because I had the temerity to say that my great-uncles (as children) were the 20th century equivalent of slaves.

Sorry but that's the whole point there is no equivelence in the comparison.
I'm sorry for what happened to your great-uncles, I'm sorry for my own relatives forced out of Ireland by famine and injustice. I'm sorry for lots of people who had/have miserable lives. But that doesn't change the fact that the slavery commemorated in the museum is on a different scale entirely.

These were people ripped from their land - or bred in captivity - in order to act as beasts of burden. An entire economic system was built upon the exploitation of one race by another.

Worse still, this monstrous crime was carried out with the wholesale support of european governments and the tacit - and often open - approval of (supposedly) christian churches.

Am I *****ed off by some of the things I've read here? You bet.
Why? Because the whiney 'whites are so hard done by' attitudes expressed are staggeringly inappropriate to any discussion of this period of history.

Newsflash, the museum isn't about making 'white people' feel either guilty or put upon. It's about recognising a huge historic injustice and promoting -much-needed - education and enlightenment.

The slaves that died in captivity never got justice, their descendents never got reparations, how about we stop trivialising their historic suffering and give them the respect they deserve.

[gerrydoyle]

Why pop Into a Museum when I can google all this Info? Maybe they hated blacks but being black doesn't make It racially motivated,

Whites have suffered as much In this country as any other minority, It Is not laughable.

Don't know if you've noticed or not but whites aren't actually a minority - we make up about 90% of the population. I would definitely push that museum trip, google just isn't going to cut it.

[PhilipG]

Max, popping into a museum is hardly the way to get an in-depth view of anything.
Museums can only skim the surface, and most cater to tourists who have the attention span of a gnat.

[PhilipG]

Don't know if you've noticed or not but whites aren't actually a minority - we make up about 90% of the population. I would definitely push that museum trip, google just isn't going to cut it.

Max didn't say whites are in a minority.
It would help, Gerry, if you paid more attention to other people's posts, and were a little less sarcastic.

[gerrydoyle]

[Whites have suffered as much In this country as any other minority, It Is not laughable.[/QUOTE]


Max didn't say whites are in a minority.
It would help, Gerry, if you paid more attention to other people's posts, and were a little less sarcastic.


Sorry but he said exactly that. it' in black and white about 3 messages up.

If I'm sarcastic then it's as a result of paying attention to other peoples posts. All I'm reading is a bunch of non-specific tripe, most of it with an undercurrent of 'how dare black people have the temerity to complain about the past/present' and 'we've had it hard as well'.

As Buffy might have said 'wow, self-obsess much?'

[Howie]

Slavery museum ensures Liverpool will not forget
Aug 24 2007
by Liza Williams, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/article/11985924.jpeg

LIVERPOOL’S new International Slavery Museum was full to capacity on its opening day yesterday, with 1,800 visitors coming from all over the world to see its exhibits.

The museum was formally opened on Slavery Remembrance Day with a blessing by community leader Chief Angus Chukuemeka, and large queues formed as a global audience waited to enter the only international slavery gallery in the world.

After the official opening an act of reflection remembering the victims of the transatlantic slave trade was held at Our Lady and St Nicholas’s Church on Chapel Street, near to the waterfront.

Then at midday an afternoon of events took place on Otterspool Promenade to mark Slavery Remembrance Day, which this year marks the 200th anniversary of the abolition of slavery. This included a traditional libation ceremony and speech, performed by Chief Chukuemeka.

Libation is an African cleansing ceremony which calls on ancestors to bless an event and was a way of honouring victims of the slave trade.

Chief Angus Chukuemeka said: “This city’s maritime history is as a slave port.

“It is from this port and others across the country that millions of Africans were dragged from their homes and families and shipped to foreign lands, when they were treated like property and denied basic human rights. At the time, slavery did have the full support of parliament, church leaders and not least businesses and the commercial community.

“There has been a lot of euphoria about abolition in 1807 as a point in history but it is significant that the liberation movement was started by slaves themselves, they resisted enslavement.

“Strictly speaking the slaves are their own liberators and the revolt in the now Haiti, 1791, was an important historic landmark.

“But 2007 should give us the opportunity to focus more intensively on legacy including contemporary slavery, it has not been brought to an end 200 years after abolition.”

A minute’s silence was observed, after which Chief Chukuemeka blessed and poured drink on the ground and in the river Mersey and asked for forgiveness for the citizens of Liverpool, Great Britain and Africa who were party to the slave trade.

The afternoon then turned to entertainment – the River Niger Orchestra performed telling the story of the transatlantic slave trade before abolition in 1807 and Sense of Sound choir, sang gospel songs taking us through the history of slavery in the American plantations beyond 1807.

Rapper Young Kof performed songs focussing on the contemporary resonance of slavery, concluding with a specially-written Liverpool Legacy Rap. Writer Levi Tafari opened and closed the event with two specially commissioned poems, A Call to Remember and A Call to Act.

Mr Tafari said: “A lot of people in the western world, in Britain and America, seem to develop amnesia as to why these places are so developed. The past should never be forgotten.”

There was also chance to taste Afro Caribbean food, try on tradition dress and children were able to create masks based on original African designs.

Local government minister John Healy attended, along with the Lord Mayor Paul Clark and many other dignitaries.

Mr Healy said: “We still face problems in society that trace back to the slave trade.

“Keeping historical events in people’s minds is one important way of tackling this.

“The museum and today’s events are a powerful way of doing this.”

A spokesperson for National Museums Liverpool said: “We are so happy with the completed and finished museum.

“Visitors have come from far and wide to see the exhibits.

“We have had so much support from the local community, in terms of visits and in getting the museum up and running”.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/08/24/slavery-museum-ensures-liverpool-will-not-forget-64375-19680168/)

[miguel]

"As with all wars, soldiers and civilians alike were sucked into the maelstrom with little or no control over which area of political ideology fate had placed them. Thus it was that men under arms found themselves fighting for causes, wearing the uniform and owing allegiance to nations and causes they little understood. More tragically millions of civilians in Europe found that overnight they had become Soviet citizens and their land given as booty to the Kremlin's dictators under deals made by the allies.
Millions thus caught up were marked down for deportation to the Soviet gulags or liquidation. Such being their fate these unfortunates were never consulted as the war 'to guarantee the rights of nations' drew to a close, nor was any regard placed on the legality or morality of this trade in human slavery and misery. As a matter of government expediency the British Army and Merchant Navy were conscripted to become essentially a part of the Soviet killing machine. The Last Secret. Nicholas Bethell. Andre Deutsch. London. 1974.

Note: This relates to the allied traffic in civilian HUMAN SLAVERY in 1946 / 1946. Many were shipped FROM LIVERPOOL, some committing suicide by jumping overboard as the ships left the Pier Head. Is there any monument to them? No, just bloody silence you evil hypocrites.

[PhilipG]

[Whites have suffered as much In this country as any other minority, It Is not laughable.




Sorry but he said exactly that. it' in black and white about 3 messages up.

'[/QUOTE]

The highlighting in bold is entirely yours.
It's your interpretation, so you could be sarcastic.
Be logical, Gerry.
Why should Max say whites are in the minority?
But you know that's not what he meant.
So far in this thread you've antagonised everybody by twisting what's been said.

[gerrydoyle]

'[/QUOTE]

The highlighting in bold is entirely yours.
So far in this thread you've antagonised everybody by twisting what's been said.[/QUOTE]

You're right Phillip the highlighting is mine but the words are entirely his. i'm sure he can object or correct on his own behalf.

The point that is being missed in that poat - and many thers - is that white people in this country do not suffer from institutional racism or widepread prejudice. The reason? because we're the overwhelming majority.Judges, politicians, senior civil servants, chief police officers, newspaper editors & business leaders are all overwhelmingly white.

If you are getting a raw deal in Britain and you're white then it's not because of the colour of you skin. It's that simple.

You've consistently ignored the substantive points that I've made and chosen to pick on the style. These are serious issues and some of the pronouncements in this thread have been both ill-informed and straight-forwardly prejudiced.

People can't expect to mouth off like some sort of Alf Garnett kareoke act and expect to go unchallenged.

Anyway, I've made the substantive points I wanted to make so that's that. If there are any further substantive issues Ito discuss I'd be happy to read them.

[lindylou]

What argument? The posts speak for themselves, there is no 'argument' just a bunch of paranoid blather and a stream of thinly disguised prejudice.

It was more irony than insult btw...

:handclap: thanks Gerry - you are speaking level headed sense.

[lindylou]

I am personally offended by the KKK 'joke' - I have deleted it - because I can ! So put that in your pipe and smoke it !! :disgust:

[gerrydoyle]

:handclap: thanks Gerry - you are speaking level headed sense.

Thanks Lindy, I was starting to feel a bit isolated:PDT_Aliboronz_11:

[lindylou]

How can people be so tactless - anyone of us here could have an ethnic relative - a spouse, a mixed race child or an in-law.

I find it insulting that people's feelings are not considered.

I personally cannot tolerate any muck about that KKK scum ... I don't even want to discuss it :disgust:

[lindylou]

... and by the way - if anyone has a gripe about me deleting the KKK joke - well tough !

I'm just not in the mood :angry:


- news and events in this city of late are pretty depressing enough without having to come on here to find more depressing stuff :(

[robbo176]

well said Lindy :handclap:

[PhilipG]

What KKK joke?

[lindylou]

Gerry - re Alf Garnet : Alf Garnet is alive and kicking in all walks of life I'm afraid. :rolleyes:


Even in 2007 :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[lindylou]

What KKK joke?

I deleted it.

[PhilipG]

I deleted it.

Yes, I read that, but I hadn't noticed the actual post.
Usually undesirable posts are quietly deleted without advertising the fact.

[lindylou]

I wanted to advertise that it was me who deleted it - because it is me who is so personally annoyed by it. I don't mind who knows it. :)

I take racism personally and I will take issue with it when needs must.

[PhilipG]

I wanted to advertise that it was me who deleted it - because it is me who is so personally annoyed by it. I don't mind who knows it. :)

I take racism personally and I will take issue with it when needs must.

It's just that I didn't see it.
All you've done is highlight the fact it was put on.
You should say who posted it, because Gerry is giving the impression he is the only decent person on this thread, while people like Max and I have had our posts misrepresented.

[lindylou]

As a final point, use of the word 'coloured' in this context is both offensive and racist. The best way to fight racism - of all kinds - is to promote respect for others. Let's start here shall we?

I agree with Gerry here

[lindylou]

If you don't like the 'way' this thread is going then you are 'free' not to read it.

Although this post isn't aimed at me, I would still like to reply that I don't like the way the thread has detriorated - and I am free to say so. :)

[lindylou]

Thanks.

I'm also free to point out brainless, racist nonsense when I see it.

In fact. not staying quiet about it is the best way to make sure we all stay 'free'.

exactly ! :handclap:

[lindylou]

If you go back and look at the case you will see he was targeted pretty much entirely because he was black. Targeted by brain-dead wasters who didn't want 'his sort' around here. The sort of ill-educated, no-hopers who need to block out their own inadequacy with a fuzzy, hateful and entirely imagined superiority over people of other races.

If the worst thing that ever happens to you is that you suffer the discrimination commonly experienced by the British white man, then you have indeed been truly blessed.



Of course this is true (re Anthony Walker).

[PhilipG]

Lindy.
Please check your emails.

[lindylou]

Have done Philip :PDT11


I've got to log-off for now - won't be near a computer for a few days -

will be back with my big stick maybe on Monday :unibrow:

[Walden]

'You've consistently ignored the substantive points that I've made and chosen to pick on the style. These are serious issues and some of the pronouncements in this thread have been both ill-informed and straight-forwardly prejudiced.

Well said! you can present some very strong and well argued points (as you have done) on here only to find trivial points thrown back at you. This is a familiar tactic on here and I suspect that that's why there are only a few regular posters - anyone with a different perspective soon finds it tiresome and stops posting.

There are tones of crypto-facists on here its more like YoBNP than YoLiverpool at times (lots of times) I do hope people from outside the city who visit here don't think we are all the same.

[Paul D]

Of course many other races suffered because of slavery throughout history but not everyone gassed in a concentration camp was Jewish so should we tell them to stop banging on about how hard done by they were? I don't think so.Auschwitz commemorates the poor souls who suffered during the war because of fascism and is there as a reminder to mankind never to make the same mistake again,this museum I feel will make the same statement although slavery sadly still exists today,will we ever learn? I personally doubt it,shall the story be swept under the carpet? Never.

[A.D.W]

Have done Philip :PDT11


I've got to log-off for now - won't be near a computer for a few days -

will be back with my big stick maybe on Monday :unibrow:

Hurrah!

:)