Hopefully the small shops will survive when Tesco opens.
Leos/Pioneer and then Kwik Save/Somerfield haven't closed them.
Unfortunately, there is no longer a traditional butcher in Park Road, but that's the only business (in 15 years) that I've seen go, that can be blamed on a supermarket opening.

What will happen to the rows of shops should Tesco open? Tesco usually sometimes buy out near by premises and employ the staff within the tesco complex instead.

Are you saying a small shop say named, "The Sweet Shop", will be bought out by Tesco and keep the same name, look and feel?

Are you saying a small shop say named, "the sweet shop", will be bought out by Tesco and keep the same name?

Yes John, they will have little 10p mix bags and a friendly local just for sweets at the end of the tills. :PDT10

No I wasn't saying that, the larger stores such as chemists have previously been absorbed (if thats the right term) into the new supermarket.

Yes John, they will have little 10p mix bags and a friendly local just for sweets at the end of the tills. :PDT10

No I wasn't saying that, the larger stores such as chemists have previously been absorbed (if thats the right term) into the new supermarket.

So you end up with a boarded up shop.

Tesco can kill an area. In Maida Vale in London, they opened up a 24/7 Tesco Express at a garage. It took more per square foot than any other Tesco in Europe or something like that. About 1/4 mile was a row of shops with two small supermarkets next door to each other. There was competition with the two and one was was rather upmarket selling some nice produce. They both had nice shop fronts. The two of them suffered and were bought up by Tesco who knocked them into one and yet another Tesco Express. Tesco Expresses look awful - really naff looking shop fronts.

Are we talking about the same Park Road?
I'm talking about the one in L8, and I see it every day.
I've admitted there is some dereliction in one stretch, but the rest of it looks very good.
There's lots of new buildings.
The pavements and street furniture are new.
It's kept clean of litter, and there are very few empty shops.

It's certainly not a "forgotten dump".
And the comment about "Salt of the earth" people is very patronising.

Unles someone is logging on as me,I didn't mention "Salt of the earth" people. I'm talking about High Park street mainly but the whole area needs more help.

Unles someone is logging on as me,I didn't mention "Salt of the earth" people. I'm talking about High Park street mainly but the whole area needs more help.

I'm sorry about that.
I've just checked, and it wasn't you who mentioned "Salt of the earth" people.
What you did say was (IMHO) rather harsh.

All of Liverpool needs more help.
We all know that.

All of Liverpool needs more help.
We all know that.

Parts Phil, only parts.

Here's a few random planning applications around Toxteth: Time to get the camera out before it's too late.

St Peters Church, High Park Street. (To demolish church and erect 33 apartments. 4/10/2007 no decision yet)

All the following applications have been passed, but not yet acted upon...apartments/houses to be built.
Crows Nest pub, Mill Street (already demolished)
The Hollow pub, Mill Street (still standing)
Royal George pub (Blacks), Park Road (still standing)
Former old peoples home, Park Street/Upper Essex Street (to refurbish and extend for apartments)

Rows of shops invariably close down when nearby supermarkets open due mainly of course to the competition. I know publishers and small bookshops who tell me they cannot compete with supermarkets selling books. Small clothes shops are effected by Asda's George (Dunn's, Peacocks etc etc) Wilkinsons do hardware and household stuff of course so it's not just the usual food supermarkets who sell everything these days that have an impact on the local rows of shops. I use supermarkets for the family big shop but inevitably have to use smaller shops for day to day items and stuff we've forgotten.

It's true. I was talking to the one remaining fishmonger in St John's market;
I remember when it was a proper fishmarket with all stalls occupied on both sides of that avenue - now there is one solitary stall left. The fishmonger told me it was the result of the supermarkets taking over.
I commented on how you can't buy fresh fish in Anfield, or anywhere in the surrounding districts - we used to have 2 fish shops in Anfield - Priory rd and Breck rd - my mum reminded me that there were in fact 4 in the district at one time. He went on to tell us that, outside of St John's market, there are only 3 remaining shops open for business in L'pool :eek: .. it makes you think.

There are fewer butchers left now - I think there are only 2 or 3 left in my area - one on Priory rd that is just about surviving, and 1 or maybe 2 on Breck rd.
the large deli shop next to Barclays bank closed down recently - none can compete since the Breck rd Asda opened.
Even the little florist by the library had to close - - Asda sells flowers and plants too !

It's true. I was talking to the one remaining fishmonger in St John's market;
I remember when it was a proper fishmarket with all stalls occupied on both sides of that avenue - now there is one solitary stall left. The fishmonger told me it was the result of the supermarkets taking over.
I commented on how you can't buy fresh fish in Anfield, or anywhere in the surrounding districts - we used to have 2 fish shops in Anfield - Priory rd and Breck rd - my mum reminded me that there were in fact 4 in the district at one time. He went on to tell us that, outside of St John's market, there are only 3 remaining shops open for business in L'pool :eek: .. it makes you think.

There are fewer butchers left now - I think there are only 2 or 3 left in my area - one on Priory rd that is just about surviving, and 1 or maybe 2 on Breck rd.
the large deli shop next to Barclays bank closed down recently - none can compete since the Breck rd Asda opened.
Even the little florist by the library had to close - - Asda sells flowers and plants too !

Ah, sad to see the old ways disappearing like this. Completely new world. . . for better or worse. :rolleyes:

Chris

ASDA and Tesco give the public what they want.
That's why they're so popular.
The public have the right to continue trading at the traditional shops, but don't.
It might be short-sighted of the public, but that's what happens.
If my local Tesco or Somerfield did the Lottery, I'd probably never go into any of the other local shops.

I'm sorry about that.
I've just checked, and it wasn't you who mentioned "Salt of the earth" people.
What you did say was (IMHO) rather harsh.

All of Liverpool needs more help.
We all know that.

It is a tad harsh but i've lived here all my life so not making comments without thinking first,I make them out of sadness.
All of Liverpool needs help? I disagree. It's too easy to class the whole of Liverpool as run down and horrible (mentioning you're from Liverpool can still be met by lazy stereotypes)Parts of Liverpool are beautiful and looked after.

What disappoints me about regeneration is the speed at which it happens in one area and is almost standstill in other areas of Toxteth.

Park Rd has seen significant activity over recent years, yet places near like Princess Drive/ Lodge Lane havn't (yet)

What disappoints me about regeneration is the speed at which it happens in one area and is almost standstill in other areas of Toxteth.

Park Rd has seen significant activity over recent years, yet places near like Princess Drive/ Lodge Lane havn't (yet)

I completely agree Kev
Park Road looks alot better than it did. Still not looking as good as it could, but it's a step in the right direction!

Lodge Lane needs alot of work doing. It is a thriving area, and it deserves some attention and some money thrown at it

What disappoints me about regeneration is the speed at which it happens in one area and is almost standstill in other areas of Toxteth.

Park Rd has seen significant activity over recent years, yet places near like Princess Drive/ Lodge Lane havn't (yet)

I was on Flickr last night and saw a picture taken in the late 80's and the street still looked like a riot had just taken place. It's a shame how slow regeneration takes place in certain areas. I'm not sure who has power to clean up the neglected parts of Liverpool but I wish they would get a move on.Edge Lane is run down and that is a gateway to the city so not sure when Lodge Lane will be helped.Maybe the rebranding of Heysmoor Heights will speed things up.Newcomers to an area seem to matter more than local people

I was on Flickr last night and saw a picture taken in the late 80's and the street still looked like a riot had just taken place. It's a shame how slow regeneration takes place in certain areas. I'm not sure who has power to clean up the neglected parts of Liverpool but I wish they would get a move on.Edge Lane is run down and that is a gateway to the city so not sure when Lodge Lane will be helped.Maybe the rebranding of Heysmoor Heights will speed things up.Newcomers to an area seem to matter more than local people

Very true.

Properties in the Lodge Lane area are being advertised with the tag line of 'being close to Lark Lane', which seems a sad indictment of an area which should be able to advertise itself for it's own merits.
The area is still rich with multiculturalism, as has been the case for a very long time (many years before the riots). However, it's underfunding has kept the scars of the riots there to see over 25 years on (and as a consequence makes it harder to to dispel preconceived ideas of what it's *actually* like to live in the area).

(Ben - Hartington Road resident - long time lurker / first time poster :-) )

Hi Ben, welcome to the site.

Very true.

Properties in the Lodge Lane area are being advertised with the tag line of 'being close to Lark Lane', which seems a sad indictment of an area which should be able to advertise itself for it's own merits.
The area is still rich with multiculturalism, as has been the case for a very long time (many years before the riots). However, it's underfunding has kept the scars of the riots there to see over 25 years on (and as a consequence makes it harder to to dispel preconceived ideas of what it's *actually* like to live in the area).

(Ben - Hartington Road resident - long time lurker / first time poster :-) )

Hello and welcome ( - :
Lodge Lane needs some investment.It should have cafes ,nice shops ,maybe a delicatessen (although most people are too in love with supermarkets now).There's no reason why it couldn't become a nice Lark Lane esque shopping area.The problem with Toxteth is no one is willing to help.It's in such a good location-Two parks ,close to town etc Pulling down beautiful buildings instead of renovating them is a disgrace.I'm fed up seeing whole streets full of empty houses

Hello and welcome ( - :
Lodge Lane needs some investment.It should have cafes ,nice shops ,maybe a delicatessen (although most people are too in love with supermarkets now).There's no reason why it couldn't become a nice Lark Lane esque shopping area.

Lank Lane is middle class, Lodge is far from it. Lodge Lane will never be a Lark Lane. Cafes? On the pavement? There? Nah.....

Thank you both Kev and AngelCake!

It does really amaze me that with the location, as you rightly say, has easy access to 2 parks (one being, in my opinion, the finest park in the North West) and a quick wander down the hill to town - that LCC have been shortsighted enough to allow an area like Lodge Lane slip under the radar for so many years.
I suspect that this will not be the case for much longer ... but I think this will be due to market forces more so than any real council policy.

Lodge Lane won't ever be a Lark Lane .... but I would like to think that there's a whole new vibrant road waiting to be reborn under it's own banner ....

If that proves to be the case, then it'll really be no thanks to the powers than be that have allowed it to stay run down for so long.

Lank Lane is middle class, Lodge is far from it. Lodge Lane will never be a Lark Lane. Cafes? On the pavement? There? Nah.....

It might be unlikely but it's better throwing out ideas rather than leaving it the way it is. Lodge Lane has a bad reputation at the moment and whenever I pass it always looks depressing.The local people deserve more

Thank you both Kev and AngelCake!

It does really amaze me that with the location, as you rightly say, has easy access to 2 parks (one being, in my opinion, the finest park in the North West) and a quick wander down the hill to town - that LCC have been shortsighted enough to allow an area like Lodge Lane slip under the radar for so many years.
I suspect that this will not be the case for much longer ... but I think this will be due to market forces more so than any real council policy.

Lodge Lane won't ever be a Lark Lane .... but I would like to think that there's a whole new vibrant road waiting to be reborn under it's own banner ....

If that proves to be the case, then it'll really be no thanks to the powers than be that have allowed it to stay run down for so long.

It will probably depend on who moves into Heyesmoor heights and whether they will complain about a lack of shops and other facilities.Lodge Lane has a bingo hall at the top,though!

I believe that you are right .... it will depend on the future residents of Heyesmoor Heights, and other developments to cater for the expanding 'close to city' area.

Market forces will dictate the future of Lodge Lane.

http://llrg.co.uk/images/welcome_banner.jpg

I believe that you are right .... it will depend on the future residents of Heyesmoor Heights, and other developments to cater for the expanding 'close to city' area.

Market forces will dictate the future of Lodge Lane.


I once lived in Croxteth Rd. Very middle class, university people, etc. Lodge Lane was the nearest shopping road. People from the park end never ventured about half way up. Then it was 500% better than now, but still distinctly working class.

Middle class in the roads around the park. Working class off Lodge Lane itself.

I believe that you are right .... it will depend on the future residents of Heyesmoor Heights, and other developments to cater for the expanding 'close to city' area.

Market forces will dictate the future of Lodge Lane.

http://llrg.co.uk/images/welcome_banner.jpg

Is that Lodge Lane? From what end?

I once lived in Croxteth Rd. Very middle class, university people, etc. Lodge Lane was the nearest shopping road. People from the park end never ventured about half way up. Then it was 500% better than now, but still distinctly working class.

Middle class in the roads around the park. Working class off Lodge Lane itself.

Do you have a class obsession?! I don't believe in talking about class,just people (I know i'm in the minority)Lodge Lane has changed since the 50's,60's etc but it doesn't mean it should stay neglected."Working class" people need shops too

I once lived in Croxteth Rd. Very middle class, university people, etc. Lodge Lane was the nearest shopping road. People from the park end never ventured about half way up. Then it was 500% better than now, but still distinctly working class.

Middle class in the roads around the park. Working class off Lodge Lane itself.

I've lived off Lodge Lane for about 10 years (University life for about 4 years, working life the remaining 6).
It's not the garden of Eden (especially if you you have a distinctly Oxford accent like myself) but it offers what it can, and is not more treacherous than many other streets in Liverpool and elsewhere.
What the area can be, and what it once was are things that are obvious to the residents - not so to the onlookers (and the university class from the park end that don't fancy the remaining 50% of the walk up the lane ;-) )

Do you have a class obsession?! I don't believe in talking about class,just people (I know i'm in the minority)Lodge Lane has changed since the 50's,60's etc but it doesn't mean it should stay neglected."Working class" people need shops too

I am addressing the point that Lodge Lane can be a Lark Lane. Forget it, it will not. Not unless the population in the streets off Lodge Lane are removed and new middle class homes built. Gentrification. That may happen, however it will take a long time.

Is that Lodge Lane? From what end?

Looking down towards the 'safe' Sefton Park end from the 'gangsta' Smithdown Road end (circa 1900 ish)

(PS I live the 'gangsta' road end, by all accounts ..... :rolleyes: )

I am addressing the point that Lodge Lane can be a Lark Lane. Forget it, it will not. Not unless the population in the streets off Lodge Lane are removed and new middle class homes built. Gentrification. That may happen, however it will take a long time.

I realise that I may be jumping in on a point that you are making that's just part of your debate with AngelCake - but, if you don't mind me asking, would you consider the gentrification (your word) of Lodge Lane a good thing?

I am addressing the point that Lodge Lane can be a Lark Lane. Forget it, it will not. Not unless the population in the streets off Lodge Lane are removed and new middle class homes built. Gentrification. That may happen, however it will take a long time.

As I said in an earlier post, my Lark Lane comment was just throwing out an idea instead of constant negativity.Removing people from their homes to make way for a different type of person is wrong and Social engineering at its worst

Looking down towards the 'safe' Sefton Park end from the 'gangsta' Smithdown Road end (circa 1900 ish)

(PS I live the 'gangsta' road end, by all accounts ..... :rolleyes: )

An Oxford man living in a gangster road?! Sounds like the start of a play:)
All cities have run down areas but for some reason Liverpool is judged to be the worst,even before the riots in 1981

I realise that I may be jumping in on a point that you are making that's just part of your debate with AngelCake - but, if you don't mind me asking, would you consider the gentrification (your word) of Lodge Lane a good thing?

Yes. All roads that run onto the parks should be appealing.

An Oxford man living in a gangster road?! Sounds like the start of a play:)
All cities have run down areas but for some reason Liverpool is judged to be the worst,even before the riots in 1981

Indeed.
I didn't want to get drawn in to a debate defending the poorer parts of Lodge Lane which are, as Waterways pointed out, the Smithdown Road end.
I thought it illustrated my point a little though, how such a prime location road/area can evoke such emotions amongst those who do not live here.

There are places in Liverpool I consider personal 'no go' areas that no doubt someone on here will be happy to champion as areas just starved government attention. I'd be surprised if I found out they were in such close proximity to the town centre and the city's largest park however...

Yes. All roads that run onto the parks should be appealing.

Appealing to whom?

Appealing to whom?

Anyone. The current road is not - to anyone.

Anyone. The current road is not - to anyone.
Your solution?

Your solution?

Let the market sort it out. If there is a demand the houses will be bought out out and people will move in to renovate or demolish/rebuild. London and parts of the USA has seen a lot of this.

Indeed.
I didn't want to get drawn in to a debate defending the poorer parts of Lodge Lane which are, as Waterways pointed out, the Smithdown Road end.
I thought it illustrated my point a little though, how such a prime location road/area can evoke such emotions amongst those who do not live here.

There are places in Liverpool I consider personal 'no go' areas that no doubt someone on here will be happy to champion as areas just starved government attention. I'd be surprised if I found out they were in such close proximity to the town centre and the city's largest park however...

When considering Liverpool no go areas most people would consider Toxteth at the top of the list rather than Norris green or Kensington. I guess some people feel more scared in a mixed race area

This is a genuine question by the way - my point, throughout this whole thing, is that Lodge Lane has a perfect location ...... just sitting and saying it should look nice seems to be oversimplifying the debate a tad.

I realise that I may be jumping in on a point that you are making that's just part of your debate with AngelCake - but, if you don't mind me asking, would you consider the gentrification (your word) of Lodge Lane a good thing?

Really it would be a case of re-gentrification. There is and was some very nice property in the Lodge Lane area. After all Liverpool's well known Public School, Liverpool College, re-located itself on Lodge Lane in the late 19th C.

Lark Lane was of course once a very rough area. It was not just for the sake of it that the Aigburth Vale Police station was relocated to Lark Lane in the last quarter of the 19th C.

When considering Liverpool no go areas most people would consider Toxteth at the top of the list rather than Norris green or Kensington. I guess some people feel more scared in a mixed race area
Seriously?

Many years of being a student and after living in rented accommodation for a while - the 'no go' areas were Edge Lane (7 years ago) then Kensington (4 years ago) ....

I can't speak for the perception of those areas these days as I've settled in Toxteth.

I am genuinely surprised by that response.

When considering Liverpool no go areas most people would consider Toxteth at the top of the list rather than Norris green or Kensington. I guess some people feel more scared in a mixed race area

Everywhere is a mix race area now or do you mean black area?

Seriously?

Many years of being a student and after living in rented accommodation for a while - the 'no go' areas were Edge Lane (7 years ago) then Kensington (4 years ago) ....

I can't speak for the perception of those areas these days as I've settled in Toxteth.

I am genuinely surprised by that response.

Being from Toxteth is still seen as a negative thing.The last time someone made a silly comment about it was 3 days ago! It's not strictly connected but when I was ill a surgeon once made a quip about living in the good part of Ullet road

When considering Liverpool no go areas most people would consider Toxteth at the top of the list rather than Norris green or Kensington. I guess some people feel more scared in a mixed race area

Sorry - re-reading your post AngelCake you are just making a (valid) observation from an external view.
I thought initially that it was what you considered more a no-go area, which was the bit that surprised me.

Granted, Toxteth, Moss Side, Peckham will always set off alarm bells for certain people. A large proportion of the population in those places are black. Most of those areas have suffered times of great poverty. People pick their prejudices for their own reasons. Those two I listed aren't, in my opinion, valid reasons for prejudice.

Everywhere is a mix race area now or do you mean black area?

The north end is traditionally more white than south Liverpool. Toxteth has always been the most racially mixed part of Liverpool,not just a black area.

Sorry - re-reading your post AngelCake you are just making a (valid) observation from an external view.
I thought initially that it was what you considered more a no-go area, which was the bit that surprised me.

Granted, Toxteth, Moss Side, Peckham will always set off alarm bells for certain people. A large proportion of the population in those places are black. Most of those areas have suffered times of great poverty. People pick their prejudices for their own reasons. Those two I listed aren't, in my opinion, valid reasons for prejudice.

Have I not said i'm Toxteth born and bred? Well I am :) It's nice in parts like any other city!

It's nice in parts like any other city!
Amen to that :-)

I'm secular but accept the sentiment!

Have I not said i'm Toxteth born and bred? Well I am :)

So am I.

I'm secular but accept the sentiment!
As am I, cheers.

Have I not said i'm Toxteth born and bred? Well I am
So am I.

Are you a member of the gentry?
If not, i'd give some second thoughts about coming home ;-)

So am I.

Great.Doubt we haave anyone in common though! :unibrow:

Lodge Lane (as a name, at least) was deemed so undesirable by some of its own residents that they had their part renamed Sefton Park Road!
This happened in the 1920s, or even earlier, so, ironically, the Lodge which gave Lodge Lane its name is now in Sefton Park Road.

Heysmoor Heights was "rebranded" so many years ago that I've forgotten what its original name was.

Lark Lane was once a rough area?
That's news to me.

The reference to the bingo hall in Lodge Lane.
Was that a selling point?
Because the majority of bingo patrons have always been (comparitively) poor, middle-aged women.

Lodge Lane (as a name, at least) was deemed so undesirable by some of its own residents that they had their part renamed Sefton Park Road!
This happened in the 1920s, or even earlier, so, ironically, the Lodge which gave Lodge Lane its name is now in Sefton Park Road.

Heysmoor Heights was "rebranded" so many years ago that I've forgotten what its original name was.

Lark Lane was once a rough area?
That's news to me.

The reference to the bingo hall in Lodge Lane.
Was that a selling point?
Because the majority of bingo patrons have always been (comparitively) poor, middle-aged women.

There was a lobby to call the ASDA (on Smithdown Road) to call it ASDA - Toxteth (as if it would make a difference to such a multi national). The choice was made to call it ASDA - Sefton Park.

The name would certainly have not made a difference to ASDA (or WAL*MART PLC). It may have made a difference to Toxteth. (At the very least to those who view it as a place to be eradicated and replaced).

Outside perceptions count - for anyone in the historic borough of Toxteth they really count.

Unfortunately.

The precedent had already been broken because the surgery which is close to ASDA is the Sefton Park Surgery.
My doctor, actually, and the surgery used to be in Ullet Road, which is a lot nearer to Sefton Park, but it was just called "Surgery" then, (but that was in the 1970s).

I wonder what area the proposed Tesco in Park Road is going to be?
What's the betting it'll be "Prince's Park"?
Going back well before the riots, the Gaumont cinema on the corner of Dingle Lane was always called (in the 'biz') the Gaumont, Prince's Park, not the Gaumont, Dingle, which is what all the locals called it.

Let the market sort it out. If there is a demand the houses will be bought out out and people will move in to renovate or demolish/rebuild. London and parts of the USA has seen a lot of this.

You're absolutely right.

It's like the issue of filling in the docks. London and parts of the USA has seen a lot of this also.

Not to worry though - market forces will sort it out.
(You never know, they may even build new arena on one of them, can't complain though eh..... )

Fool.

:rolleyes:

Great.Doubt we haave anyone in common though! :unibrow:

I doubt it.

You're absolutely right.

It's like the issue of filling in the docks. London and parts of the USA has seen a lot of this also.

Not to worry though - market forces will sort it out.
(You never know, they may even build new arena on one of them, can't complain though eh..... )

Fool.

:rolleyes:

What parts of the USA are you referring to?

You're absolutely right.

It's like the issue of filling in the docks. London and parts of the USA has seen a lot of this also.


Where?


Not to worry though - market forces will sort it out.


Market forces may sort out Lodge Lane, however I doubt it.


(You never know, they may even build new arena on one of them, can't complain though eh..... )


Many can complain. The arena looks naff in design and colour - a big mistake. When it starts up just think of all the fleets of coaches moving in and out. How fabulous. Leaving the waters as they were and building around them was the better option and putting the area at the end of the Wapping Tunnel.


Fool.
:rolleyes:

Obnoxious as well...

The precedent had already been broken because the surgery which is close to ASDA is the Sefton Park Surgery.
My doctor, actually, and the surgery used to be in Ullet Road, which is a lot nearer to Sefton Park, but it was just called "Surgery" then, (but that was in the 1970s).

I wonder what area the proposed Tesco in Park Road is going to be?
What's the betting it'll be "Prince's Park"?
Going back well before the riots, the Gaumont cinema on the corner of Dingle Lane was always called (in the 'biz') the Gaumont, Prince's Park, not the Gaumont, Dingle, which is what all the locals called it.

Toxteth is a large area with sub areas in it. No one ever referred to Toxteth, just the sub areas within. If anyone ever asked where you lived, you never said Toxteth, no more than you would say Liverpool, as it was too big.

You're absolutely right.
It's like the issue of filling in the docks. London and parts of the USA has seen a lot of this also.

Where?

Surrey Commercial Docks - (London)
Graving Dock - (part of the USA) ;-)


Not to worry though - market forces will sort it out.

Market forces may sort out Lodge Lane, however I doubt it.



Your solution - read up - was to leave it to market forces ......

Actually - to save you looking :


Let the market sort it out.


It's staggering that you even bother to read a thread about an area that you evidently couldn't care less about.....


(You never know, they may even build new arena on one of them, can't complain though eh..... )

Many can complain. The arena looks naff in design and colour - a big mistake. When it starts up just think of all the fleets of coaches moving in and out. How fabulous. Leaving the waters as they were and building around them was the better option and putting the area at the end of the Wapping Tunnel.



Leave to market forces ...You get my point yet?
Just because Lodge Lane isn't as dear to your heart as a dock, it happens to be the area I live in.
FWIW - I like the new Arena. I raised it to make a point - which I hope has registered.


Fool.

Obnoxious as well...



For this I apologise - it's beneath me.

What parts of the USA are you referring to?

I appreciate that you want specifics here ... for one example, see my reply above to that Waterways chap.

The point being made, irrespective of whether 1 or 1 million docks have been filled in, was that a flippant 'let the market sort it out' comment about the area in which I live wasn't something I appreciated.

I selected the infill of the docks as, looking at his signature, I thought that the point might be understood if compared to something he appears to care about.

The point was either missed - or as a means of backtracking, he resorted to pedantry ..... 'which docks ....' ....oh dear.

We pay taxes to let the council sort it out - not continually being told there's no money to (ie. Garden festival site) so sit it out leaving a dump waiting for private investment to get us out the s*%t

Just because Lodge Lane isn't as dear to your heart as a dock, it happens to be the area I live in.


Members of my family lived off it. I am familiar with Lodge lane. And I would not like to live around there these days. You do, I don't.


FWIW - I like the new Arena.


I thought you would for some reason.


For this I apologise - it's beneath me.

'let the market sort it out' comment about the area in which I live wasn't something I appreciated.


Why should Lodge Lane be immune from market forces? State aid for the place?

We pay taxes to let the council sort it out - not continually being told there's no money to (ie. Garden festival site) so sit it out leaving a dump waiting for private investment to get us out the s*%t

There are lots of private companies that would want to get their hands on that site and do something special. The Brunswick Quay Tower was one billion of private money and turned down. As if Liverpool can chose to turn down such investment. Don't blame the private sector, blame the city council.

Private companies are lining up with proposals and firm financial backing. A well run council would have had most of the dock waterways. garden festival site, etc well developed and well under way by now. All they need is a a proper overall plan protecting various parts, like water spaces, etc. Look at what Manchester has done in such a short timescale. Liverpool is seen as a do nothing city and large investors may not even consider the place if it continues.

I am blaming the city council John hence my 'we pay taxes to let the council sort it out' remark.

The people of the Lodge Lane area have a right to feel that their taxes will go some way to sorting their area out. Yes, the garden festival site is prime real estate land overlooking the Mersey with uninterupted views etc so there will be private investors interestred in it, perhaps a new road tunnel or bridge could have gone there instead of the cannon fodder council tenants in the north end.

Bully for the council that they are in a position to sell off this land to private investors, short sighted of them not to get the best possible price for it and use the money for less prime sites like Lodge Lane, Kensington, Kirkdale etc and get all, not just parts of the city up and running again.

[QUOTE=Waterways;86735]Members of my family lived off it. I am familiar with Lodge lane. And I would not like to live around there these days. You do, I don't.

I don't live on Lodge lane either but i'd still like to see it given help.You dislike the new arena,dislike the idea of lodge lane being helped.Why? For people who believe certain areas can never be "done up" go and take a look at the Falkner state footage then look at that area now.

I am blaming the city council John hence my 'we pay taxes to let the council sort it out' remark.

The people of the Lodge Lane area have a right to feel that their taxes will go some way to sorting their area out. Yes, the garden festival site is prime real estate land overlooking the Mersey with uninterupted views etc so there will be private investors interestred in it, perhaps a new road tunnel or bridge could have gone there instead of the cannon fodder council tenants in the north end.

Bully for the council that they are in a position to sell off this land to private investors, short sighted of them not to get the best possible price for it and use the money for less prime sites like Lodge Lane, Kensington, Kirkdale etc and get all, not just parts of the city up and running again.

I don't think houses should be built on that site. The more I look in to it, the more I believe that Liverpool council has never been run by people who care.

I think there has to be a balance. It's true that part of it is a wild nature reserve (if you like) and also true that most of it should be preserved as parkland. However, there is part of it to the west of Riverside drive where the dome was that is disused and derelict. There is no reason for the council not to cash in on this and use the money in other areas where it's needed and private investment is not forthcoming. Private investors of course will only pick and choose prime sites.

Right, I think we may have to wrap this up soon Waterways - ok with you?
It can't be fascinating reading for anyone looking for Toxteth info on here.


Just because Lodge Lane isn't as dear to your heart as a dock, it happens to be the area I live in.

Members of my family lived off it. I am familiar with Lodge lane. And I would not like to live around there these days. You do, I don't.


You do enjoy trying to qualify your 'views' by rolling out the fact that either yourself and/or members of your family once lived around here.
As exited as you can imagine I was about hearing this ......it doesn't really add to any debate does it.
The long and short of it appears to be 'you don't like it round Lodge Lane way' ... that's fine, wonderful in fact as it limits the chances of me meeting you.
Could I give you some advice ..... maybe you should try a different topic (there's plenty to choose from) ... possibly something involving water?



FWIW - I like the new Arena.

I thought you would for some reason.


Excellent point to highlight - I like the ACC, and you don't - thanks for that.


'let the market sort it out' comment about the area in which I live wasn't something I appreciated.

Why should Lodge Lane be immune from market forces? State aid for the place?


I'm actually getting to quite like you now Mr Waterways .... you know when you reach that tipping point, whereby something so utterly pointless is said (very much like your comment above) - that you can't help but sit back, smile and wonder why on earth you bothered engaging this person in a debate at all.

[sits back][smiles]

Just a quick reminder of where I came into this thread ..... it would be nice to go back to talking about Toxteth ... (I believe that my final few words below seem more relevant than ever)


Properties in the Lodge Lane area are being advertised with the tag line of 'being close to Lark Lane', which seems a sad indictment of an area which should be able to advertise itself for it's own merits.
The area is still rich with multiculturalism, as has been the case for a very long time (many years before the riots). However, it's underfunding has kept the scars of the riots there to see over 25 years on (and as a consequence makes it harder to to dispel preconceived ideas of what it's *actually* like to live in the area

Members of my family lived off it. I am familiar with Lodge lane. And I would not like to live around there these days. You do, I don't.


I don't live on Lodge lane either but i'd still like to see it given help.You dislike the new arena, dislike the idea of lodge lane
being helped.Why?


Where did you get that from? I like the arena, well sort of. We do need one. The colour is awful and the design is well...erm. It is in the wrong place. by about 800 to 1000 metres an should have been on the land side of the docks.

Lodge Lane should be given help. But not to keep it as some sort of working class enclave. Time moves on, things change. If people with money want to change the area well so be it if it is all for the better.


For people who believe certain areas can never be "done up" go and take a look at the Falkner state footage then look at that area now.

Falkner St, and around there had desirable buildings. Lodge Lane has few if any. The desirable parts are Sefton Pk Rd, Croxteth Rd, parts of Hartington Rd, etc. If these roads are further improved then run down Lodge lane is clearly in the way and ripe for gentrification. Those bought out always gain. This is all if Liverpool get wealthy further and the demand is there. Islington in London is a prime example of private money moving into an area and making the place far smarter.

You do enjoy trying to qualify your 'views' by rolling out the fact that either yourself and/or members of your family once lived around here.


I was born and brought up in L8.


The long and short of it appears to be 'you don't like it round Lodge Lane way' ... that's fine, wonderful in fact as it limits the chances of me meeting you.


I doubt we shall meet.


Could I give you some advice ..... maybe you should try a different topic (there's plenty to choose from) ... possibly something involving water?


It appears some home truths have affected you.

I don't think houses should be built on that site. The more I look in to it, the more I believe that Liverpool council has never been run by people who care.

I agree. The festival site should be for the public.

I was born and brought up in L8.

How exiting


I doubt we shall meet.

Aww


It appears some home truths have affected you.

Absolutely .... all those valid home truths of yours .... well done.

I was born and brought up in L8.


How exiting


It did make many want to exit the area.

Anyone have any thoughts about the proposal to build a Wetherspoons on the site of the old Kwik Save? (top of Smithdown Rd)

The jury is out a little for me - whilst I would never encourage that particular chain of pubs - I can't see another supermarket coping there (what with the proximity to the ASDA/ALDI etc), and the building itself is god awful ......
I thought Wetherspoons took nice buildings and ruined them .... I can't see how they could manage to do anything but improve that particular site...

I was born and brought up in L8.

How exiting

It did make many want to exit the area.




If you read the above from start to finish, we might have established why people wanted to leave L8 ....... you're like the reverse Pied Piper aren't you :-)

It did make me laugh out loud though - so thanks for that

I don't see why houses can't be built on part of the site.
It was always part of the original plan.
In fact, houses have already been built, and it's precisely those tenants who are now saying "Not In My Back Yard".

It should be remembered that we only have Prince's, Sefton and Newsham Parks because the perimeters were sold for housing to raise the cash for the laying out of those parks.

Where did you get that from? I like the arena, well sort of. We do need one. The colour is awful and the design is well...erm. It is in the wrong place. by about 800 to 1000 metres an should have been on the land side of the docks.

Lodge Lane should be given help. But not to keep it as some sort of working class enclave. Time moves on, things change. If people with money want to change the area well so be it if it is all for the better.



Falkner St, and around there had desirable buildings. Lodge Lane has few if any. The desirable parts are Sefton Pk Rd, Croxteth Rd, parts of Hartington Rd, etc. If these roads are further improved then run down Lodge lane is clearly in the way and ripe for gentrification. Those bought out always gain. This is all if Liverpool get wealthy further and the demand is there. Islington in London is a prime example of private money moving into an area and making the place far smarter.

I was talking about Falkner estate.The amount of demolition that took place proves how run down the area was. I know Islington London and although some houses are 2,3 million, you still have sink estates where people don't want to live. I'd like to know where you live now (apologies if i'm being too nosy) and what do you think should happen to Lodge lane and Toxteth ?

I don't see why houses can't be built on part of the site.
It was always part of the original plan.
In fact, houses have already been built, and it's precisely those tenants who are now saying "Not In My Back Yard".

It should be remembered that we only have Prince's, Sefton and Newsham Parks because the perimeters were sold for housing to raise the cash for the laying out of those parks.

I'm fed up with the build new houses obsession and that area has enough people living there. What about all the empty houses over Liverpool? Why can't thay be fixed up instead of being left for photographers to make a collection titled "urban decay"?

I'm fed up with the build new houses obsession and that area has enough people living there. What about all the empty houses over Liverpool? Why can't thay be fixed up instead of being left for photographers to make a collection titled "urban decay"?

Some houses are not worth saving. They are also very expensive to heat having no insulation. People are forced into fuel poverty. Insulation standards on new houses is very high making new homes cheap to heat. cold damp old houses give rise to medical complaints.

The UK has the oldest housing stock in western Europe and the least insulated. Only houses of note should be saved, and only then being fully renovated to modern standards. Look here for some interesting facts on housing:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/LandArticle.html

Some houses are not worth saving. They are also very expensive to heat having no insulation. People are forced into fuel poverty. Insulation standards on new houses is very high making new homes cheap to heat. cold damp old houses give rise to medical complaints.

The UK has the oldest housing stock in western Europe and the least insulated. Only houses of note should be saved, and only then being fully renovated to modern standards. Look here for some interesting facts on housing:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/LandArticle.html

I know the problem with old,damp houses but some of your posts sound like you don't wont Lodge lane to even exist. What about people who want to stay in their homes?Not everyone is like you or me-some people will stay in their chosen area no matter what. You must hate Laurence Westgaph's campaign to save Lodge lane

I'd like to know where you live now (apologies if i'm being too nosy) and what do you think should happen to Lodge lane and Toxteth ?

I live in Buckinghamshire and London and visit Liverpool a lot. That may change soon.

Lodge Lane? It look awful indeed. You can't displace a whole group of people living there although the council can smarten the place up. Toxteth is too huge to say it should be like this and that.

The south end docks should be built on properly and the Toxteth and Harrington Docks excavated and the surrounds given over the residential property. Then work back into the hinterland. The refusal of the Brunswick Quay Tower was a major Council screw up.

The Dingle rail station should be brought back into commission (it is still there underground) and made a part of Merseyrail. Ideally the Dingle tunnel should be extended to Lodge Lane and an underground station built there - as originally intended when the Overhead Railway was built. Or extend from Edge Hill into Lodge Lane. Or better still link the Dingle tunnel with Edge Hill and a few stations along the new tunnel. Lodge Lane road could be cut and covered and have a tunnel just under the road. The transport infrastructure will be a catalyst for regeneration and attract private investors. Then Park Rd and Lodge Lane will become dense vibrant centres as is the case in London.

The Wapping rail tunnel from Edge Hill to Queens Dock could also be brought back into commission and have new stations cut into it. Around Bedford St would be a good place for one as it will also regenerate that area and create another vibrant centre.

Look at what the Jubilee Line extension did to areas it ran through in London. It needs public money to kick start it, however taxes could be levied on property that gains in value because of the new rail stations. London regretted not putting a tax on homes that have value increases around the new stations - some by 100%. It would have paid for the new tunnel and stations. Some people made a lot of money through no effort from themselves, from selling houses because of public money investment

I live in Buckinghamshire and London and visit Liverpool a lot. That may change soon.

Lodge Lane? It look awful indeed. You can't displace a whole group of people living there although the council can smarten the place up. Toxteth is too huge to say it should be like this and that.

The south end docks should be built on properly and the Toxteth and Harrington Docks excavated and the surrounds given over the residential property. Then work back into the hinterland. The refusal of the Brunswick Quay Tower was a major Council screw up.

The Dingle rail station should be brought back into commission (it is still there underground) and made a part of Merseyrail. Ideally the Dingle tunnel should be extended to Lodge Lane and an underground station built there - as originally intended when the Overhead Railway was built. Or extend from Edge Hill into Lodge Lane. Or better still link the Dingle tunnel with Edge Hill and a few stations along the new tunnel. Lodge Lane road could be cut and covered and have a tunnel just under the road. The transport infrastructure will be a catalyst for regeneration and attract private investors. Then Park Rd and Lodge Lane will become dense vibrant centres as is the case in London.

The Wapping rail tunnel from Edge Hill to Queens Dock could also be brought back into commission and have new stations cut into it. Around Bedford St would be a good place for one as it will also regenerate that area and create another vibrant centre.

Look at what the Jubilee Line extension did to areas it ran through in London. It needs public money to kick start it, however taxes could be levied on property that gains in value because of the new rail stations. London regretted not putting a tax on homes that have value increases around the new stations - some by 100%. It would have paid for the new tunnel and stations. Some people made a lot of money through no effort from themselves, from selling houses because of public money investment

London is different to Liverpool and you forget how many people live in London and use the tube.Liverpool doesn't have enough rail users to justify ripping a whole ancient road apart and what about people who don't need trains? A student would be better off on a bus that would drop them off outside rather than a walk from Edge Hill. Bedford street with a tunnel or rail station?! Ruin a conservation area for no reason? Do you know the amount of money that would be wasted on such a project? And the amount of beautiful buildings lost forever?Madness

London is different to Liverpool and you forget how many people live in London and use the tube.Liverpool doesn't have enough rail users to justify ripping a whole ancient road apart and what about people who don't need trains? A student would be better off on a bus that would drop them off outside rather than a walk from Edge Hill. Bedford street with a tunnel or rail station?! Ruin a conservation area for no reason? Do you know the amount of money that would be wasted on such a project? And the amount of beautiful buildings lost forever?Madness

You don't get the point(s) or understand some of it. Underground rail stations attract regeneration - they can be easily put right into established centres. A tunnel runs right now (the Wapping Tunnel) under Bedford St and only a new underground station need be cut into the tunnel. The Dingle Tunnel, from Herculaneum Dock, can be linked to Edge Hill and mainly run along Ullyet Rd, Sefton Pk Rd, Lodge lane and Tunnel Rd. All by mainly digging out the road and backfilling (cut and cover) - how most of the Paris Metro was built and the section along Marylebone Rd in London.

This new tunnel would create a city centre rail ring loop, from the Central to Dingle, to Edge Hill, down the Waterloo Tunnel, where stations can be cut, to Waterloo Dock and along the Northern Line back to the centre. Like the Circle lines line in London and Glasgow. The new station would attract regeneration and beef up the centre. Imagine a 40 floor block over Dingle Station? Or one over a Lodge Lane station? Or one over a new station at Byrom St.

The Dingle rail station should be brought back into commission (it is still there underground) and made a part of Merseyrail. Ideally the Dingle tunnel should be extended to Lodge Lane and an underground station built there - as originally intended when the Overhead Railway was built. Or extend from Edge Hill into Lodge Lane. Or better still link the Dingle tunnel with Edge Hill and a few stations along the new tunnel. Lodge Lane road could be cut and covered and have a tunnel just under the road. The transport infrastructure will be a catalyst for regeneration and attract private investors. Then Park Rd and Lodge Lane will become dense vibrant centres as is the case in London.

I do like the idea of that.
I'm not sure whether it's in any way likely to happen - partly due to the large sums of money that appear to be required, and bearing in mind the time it takes for the go ahead on more commercially important rail improvements in Liverpool.


Look at what the Jubilee Line extension did to areas it ran through in London.


Didn't it take a while to get the Jubilee line to get installed (?) .... and bearing in mind this was to serve London's Docklands/Canary Wharf etc - it's a struggle for me to believe that the situation up here is analogous.
Merseytravel (or whoever) I think will struggle cost justifying new stations linking Lodge Lane to the network anytime soon.....

Still, as I said ... it would be nice.

You don't get the point(s) or understand some of it. Underground rail stations attract regeneration - they can be easily put right into established centres. A tunnel runs right now (the Wapping Tunnel) under Bedford St and only a new underground station need be cut into the tunnel. The Dingle Tunnel, from Herculaneum Dock, can be linked to Edge Hill and mainly run along Ullyet Rd, Sefton Pk Rd, Lodge lane and Tunnel Rd. All by mainly digging out the road and backfilling (cut and cover) - how most of the Paris Metro was built and the section along Marylebone Rd in London.

This new tunnel would create a city centre rail ring loop, from the Central to Dingle, to Edge Hill, down the Waterloo Tunnel, where stations can be cut, to Waterloo Dock and along the Northern Line back to the centre. Like the Circle lines line in London and Glasgow. The new station would attract regeneration and beef up the centre. Imagine a 40 floor block over Dingle Station? Or one over a Lodge Lane station? Or one over a new station at Byrom St.

It's a silly idea.I was talking about it with someone and they pointed out even more flaws in your idea. I know your heart is in the right place and you probably feel disgusted when you think of how bad Lodge lane is at the moment but there are better ways of regenerating Toxteth. The new development "Catherine Mews"(starting price £229,950) is in Toxteth but I doubt they use the T word in their brochure.It still has negative connotations and always will at this rate

I still think you don't get it. Since when has an underground system been a silly idea? A city centre underground rail loop is created with underground stations in major districts, which will regenerate them.

Fast, comfortable and frequent transportation infrastructure is the key - underground trains - the city has disused underground tunnels that need re-using and needs more. Underground systems serve all the major cities of the world well. They penetrate right into the centre of districts.

I read once of a suggestion I liked to divert the Garston line as it passes through Otterspool, through the park under ground and down Aigburth Rd under the road. At the top of Aigburth Rd a branch into the Dingle underground stn, along the Dingle tunnel and out over the Herculaneum Dock onto the line again. The other branch at the top of Aigburth Rd would go along Ullyet Rd, Sefton Pk Rd, Lodge Lane, Tunnel Rd and into Edge Hill. Most of it would be cheap cut and cover along the roads, with little boring of tunnels.

Underground stations would be at: Aigburth Vale, Lark Lane, Sefton Pk Rd, the existing station at Dingle, Lodge Lane and Tunnel Rd (maybe). St Michaels Stn would be done away with - it is out on limb anyway. It would serve 4 major districts, right into the heart of them and no rail lines to be seen. It would also form a part of a city centre loop, which I explained previously using the Waterloo tunnel from Edge Hill to Waterloo Dock.

I still think you don't get it. Since when has an underground system been a silly idea? A city centre underground rail loop is created with underground stations in major districts, which will regenerate them.

Fast, comfortable and frequent transportation infrastructure is the key - underground trains - the city has disused underground tunnels that need re-using and needs more. Underground systems serve all the major cities of the world well. They penetrate right into the centre of districts.

I read once of a suggestion I liked to divert the Garston line as it passes through Otterspool, through the park under ground and down Aigburth Rd under the road. At the top of Aigburth Rd a branch into the Dingle underground stn, along the Dingle tunnel and out over the Herculaneum Dock onto the line again. The other branch at the top of Aigburth Rd would go along Ullyet Rd, Sefton Pk Rd, Lodge Lane, Tunnel Rd and into Edge Hill. Most of it would be cheap cut and cover along the roads, with little boring of tunnels.

Underground stations would be at: Aigburth Vale, Lark Lane, Sefton Pk Rd, the existing station at Dingle, Lodge Lane and Tunnel Rd (maybe). St Michaels Stn would be done away with - it is out on limb anyway. It would serve 4 major districts, right into the heart of them and no rail lines to be seen. It would also form a part of a city centre loop, which I explained previously using the Waterloo tunnel from Edge Hill to Waterloo Dock.

I understand the point you are making but you don't understand the difference between London and Liverpool. No one seems to know the exact figures but about 500,000 people live in Liverpool.London has so many boroughs and commuters that a train/tube system is needed. It wouldn't be Economically Sustainable in Liverpool. That is my point

Anyone have any thoughts about the proposal to build a Wetherspoons on the site of the old Kwik Save? (top of Smithdown Rd)

The jury is out a little for me - whilst I would never encourage that particular chain of pubs - I can't see another supermarket coping there (what with the proximity to the ASDA/ALDI etc), and the building itself is god awful ......
I thought Wetherspoons took nice buildings and ruined them .... I can't see how they could manage to do anything but improve that particular site...

I don't know what type of place a Wetherspoons is but think the last thing that part of Smithdown Road needs is a pub. A cinema would be much better! I'm always being told about an old cinema that used to be in upper parliament street Think it was called the Rialto Cinema

I understand the point you are making but you don't understand the difference between London and Liverpool.


I understand the difference very well having lived in both.


No one seems to know the exact figures but about 500,000 people live in Liverpool. London has so many boroughs and commuters that a train/tube system is needed. It wouldn't be Economically Sustainable in Liverpool. That is my point

You clearly do not understand. The aim is to regenerate the city of Liverpool and get its population back. Make it dense again. Providing top class transport infrastructure is one of the major keys to regeneration.

It is best to spend public money on schemes that will promote regeneration. Otherwise it will be another round of public money to tart up an area which will decline again and more money to do it again and the circle continues. Money wasted.

Public money needs to be spent once and only once on meaningful projects and the private sector then makes it sustainable, create wealth and attract people back again.

I don't know what type of place a Wetherspoons is but think the last thing that part of Smithdown Road needs is a pub. A cinema would be much better! I'm always being told about an old cinema that used to be in upper parliament street Think it was called the Rialto Cinema

That site on the corner of Smithdown and Yanwath St. used to be a cinema. The Picture Playhouse it was called. The Rialto was a cinema and a ballroom that was at the corner of Berkley St. and Upper Parliament St. It later was used as a used furniture warehouse by Swainbanks and was burned out in the riots.

I understand the difference very well having lived in both.



You clearly do not understand. The aim is to regenerate the city of Liverpool and get its population back. Make it dense again. Providing top class transport infrastructure is one of the major keys to regeneration.

It is best to spend public money on schemes that will promote regeneration. Otherwise it will be another round of public money to tart up an area which will decline again and more money to do it again and the circle continues. Money wasted.

Public money needs to be spent once and only once on meaningful projects and the private sector then makes it sustainable, create wealth and attract people back again.
If you think recommisioning rail tunnels would attract enough people and jobs to justify the afore mentioned plans to Liverpool-fine.Send a proposal to Liverpool council.They love wasting money,ruining beautiful architecture and selling off prime land for a pittance. Lets agree to disagree because we are going around in circles

That site on the corner of Smithdown and Yanwath St. used to be a cinema. The Picture Playhouse it was called. The Rialto was a cinema and a ballroom that was at the corner of Berkley St. and Upper Parliament St. It later was used as a used furniture warehouse by Swainbanks and was burned out in the riots.

Thank you for that info! Would love to see some pictures of The Rialto. The riots ruined Toxteth in the long run, or people's attitude towards Toxteth and its residents

I don't know what type of place a Wetherspoons is but think the last thing that part of Smithdown Road needs is a pub. A cinema would be much better! I'm always being told about an old cinema that used to be in upper parliament street Think it was called the Rialto Cinema

I'm not a fan of Wetherspoon pubs - and would certainly be keen on a proposal such as a cinema.
The reason I say that the jury is out in my mind about the proposal is the fact that in the 12 or so years I've known it, it has been an awful building with little prospects for being turned into anything of any note.

Wetherspoons - as a large corporate with a brand image to maintain, and enough cash to do that - would be an improvement in my mind.
I don't see anyone else joining the queue to take on this building.

It may be due to the long term lack of action in other key sites in this area, that I am less hopeful of the better alternatives turning up.

One thing that I would not welcome is another boarded up sh!th0le for the area to have to cope with.

I'm fed up with the build new houses obsession and that area has enough people living there. What about all the empty houses over Liverpool? Why can't thay be fixed up instead of being left for photographers to make a collection titled "urban decay"?

The point I was making was that some parks weren't built, and will not be built, without the income generated from using part of the site for housing.
Yes, I know there are plenty of empty houses, but they aren't overlooking a river and a park.

Send a proposal to Liverpool council.They love wasting money,ruining beautiful architecture

Underground rail systems are er, er, er...underground. So no buildings get touched. You need to understand how cities work and how the most successful cities work.

Underground rail systems are er, er, er...underground. So no buildings get touched. You need to understand how cities work and how the most successful cities work.

Of course buildings would be touched. Expecting 100's of companies to move to liverpool just because we would have a city wide rail system is ridiculous.

Of course buildings would be touched. Expecting 100's of companies to move to liverpool just because we would have a city wide rail system is ridiculous.

The only buildings touched would need to be touched. Good quality buildings will remain.

Fast, efficient, clean and comfortable transport infrastructure is an important consideration when locating. The Munich underground system built for the 1972 Olympics projected the city to world status from being a mere provincial city. The bavarians never looked back.

Also, the underground system means vibrant urban centres can flourish attracting people from the Greater Liverpool area and beyond. This means the city becomes more attractive generally and the regenerated, vibrant centres attract people and improve the quality of life of the people. A win, win all around for the locals and attracting outsiders.

Companies will not build around Lodge Lane, they will setup in the centre or the industrial estates. The attractive urban environment is what will attract them to the city, amongst others.

One thing is clear. Leaving these eyesore districts, or doing the usual quick tart up, will only do harm all around in the long run.

The centres and its immediate surrounds needs to be top quality and re-populated with people with high expendable incomes.

The only buildings touched would need to be touched. Good quality buildings will remain.

Fast, efficient, clean and comfortable transport infrastructure is an important consideration when locating. The Munich underground system built for the 1972 Olympics projected the city to world status from being a mere provincial city. The bavarians never looked back.

Also, the underground system means vibrant urban centres can flourish attracting people from the Greater Liverpool area and beyond. This means the city becomes more attractive generally and the regenerated, vibrant centres attract people and improve the quality of life of the people. A win, win all around for the locals and attracting outsiders.

Companies will not build around Lodge Lane, they will setup in the centre or the industrial estates. The attractive urban environment is what will attract them to the city, amongst others.

One thing is clear. Leaving these eyesore districts, or doing the usual quick tart up, will only do harm all around in the long run.

The centres and its immediate surrounds needs to be top quality and re-populated with people with high expendable incomes.

What I want to know is not the merits of a city wide rail system, but the cost justification for it, and whether it's a realistic plan, taking into accounts the size and population of Liverpool and the viable alternatives.
(I should mention at this stage, I am referring to your suggestions regarding the links to Lodge Lane etc ... in case you wander off on some general tangent)
Reading through some of your responses (many of them starting 'you don't understand....') they seem very naive.

I've highlighted in bold above a cost justification for Munich - if that's a comparison you want to draw. Where's the one for here?
Or is the cost justification in your mind 'well, this would attract those with fat wallets, eventually' - in which case, as AngelCake suggests, put your proposal to the Council .... I'll not hold my breath.

As I have previously mentioned - I don't dislike the idea, I just cannot see it heading anyone's list for infrastructure improvements for the next 10 years..

Unless you really think it a valid proposal - then it's about as much use as suggesting a monorail for Lodge Lane ......

I'm not an authority on local railways, but the loop-line in the city centre was only built (or should that be "dug") in the 1970s, which was hardly one of Liverpool's most prosperous periods.
Hardly any buildings were affected, except that the original Cavern was lost.
At the same time the Central/Garston line was reopened after being closed for years.

BTW. The point that we have unused tunnels keeps being missed.

The only buildings touched would need to be touched. Good quality buildings will remain.

Fast, efficient, clean and comfortable transport infrastructure is an important consideration when locating. The Munich underground system built for the 1972 Olympics projected the city to world status from being a mere provincial city. The bavarians never looked back.

Also, the underground system means vibrant urban centres can flourish attracting people from the Greater Liverpool area and beyond. This means the city becomes more attractive generally and the regenerated, vibrant centres attract people and improve the quality of life of the people. A win, win all around for the locals and attracting outsiders.

Companies will not build around Lodge Lane, they will setup in the centre or the industrial estates. The attractive urban environment is what will attract them to the city, amongst others.

One thing is clear. Leaving these eyesore districts, or doing the usual quick tart up, will only do harm all around in the long run.

The centres and its immediate surrounds needs to be top quality and re-populated with people with high expendable incomes.

Munich's population (2 million plus) is bigger than Liverpool's (500,000)and having an underground system doesn't always make urban areas flourish.London (8 million)) has many areas that people avoid tube system or not, same as New york (18 million).Mancester has become a vibrant ,attractive, regenerated city without the aid of a tube system. People with large incomes who live in the centre or surrounding areas are already happy to live in the Docks or Sefton park . I just don't agree that a tube system would transform the city as much as you think it would and bring in millions of people.

Munich's population (2 million plus) is bigger than Liverpool's (500,000)and having an underground system doesn't always make urban areas flourish.


Munich was not 2 milion in the late 1960s when the underground was conceived. Merseyside has a population of 1.5 million.


London (8 million)) has many areas that people avoid tube system or not, same as New york (18 million).Mancester has become a vibrant ,attractive, regenerated city without the aid of a tube system.


So underground systems do not work in your logic. How odd. London and NY are successful because of the underground rapid transport systems...and other major cities like Tokyo, etc.


People with large incomes who live in the centre or surrounding areas are already happy to live in the Docks or Sefton park . I just don't agree that a tube system would transform the city as much as you think it would and bring in millions of people.


You need to understand what needs to be in place to project a city. It is clear you are quite satisfied with deprivation around you. Look at things logically and in a positive light. It will be much better then. You have the Liverpool disease.

Munich's population (2 million plus) is bigger than Liverpool's (500,000)and having an underground system doesn't always make urban areas flourish.London (8 million)) has many areas that people avoid tube system or not, same as New york (18 million).Mancester has become a vibrant ,attractive, regenerated city without the aid of a tube system. People with large incomes who live in the centre or surrounding areas are already happy to live in the Docks or Sefton park . I just don't agree that a tube system would transform the city as much as you think it would and bring in millions of people.

Bilbao in Spain has of course recently ( 1995) installed a new underground system. This has helped the city immensely along with the new Guggenheim museum. It has a population of about 350,000 with greater Bilbao about 1 million. Bilbao also has a new tramway system. Surely Liverpool would benefit from improved mass transport systems

Bilbao in Spain has of course recently ( 1995) installed a new underground system. This has helped the city immensely along with the new Guggenheim museum. It has a population of about 350,000 with greater Bilbao about 1 million. Bilbao also has a new tramway system. Surely Liverpool would benefit from improved mass transport systems

The infrastructure is in place, tunnels, etc, to extend the existing Liverpool underground system.

It is essential to re-populate the city. The tramway is a white elephant, money should be spent on the underground system.

Munich was not 2 milion in the late 1960s when the underground was conceived. Merseyside has a population of 1.5 million.



So underground systems do not work in your logic. How odd. London and NY are successful because of the underground rapid transport systems...and other major cities like Tokyo, etc.



You need to understand what needs to be in place to project a city. It is clear you are quite satisfied with deprivation around you. Look at things logically and in a positive light. It will be much better then. You have the Liverpool disease.

I've no idea what Liverpool disease is but it sounds like you have the typical "I don't live in Liverpool and it's an awful place to reside".On previous posts I talked with Ben about how Lodge Lane and Toxteth needs improving so saying i'm quite satisfied with deprivation is offensive ,silly and misquotation.Why you are resorting to such low posts i'll never know.It's pointless trying to discuss important issues with someone who has an agenda. I'm interested in Toxteth becoming a nice area (regardless of where I live). I'm fine with people disagreeing with me but i'm not happy when a stranger tells me i'm happy seeing my birthplace deprived.You've crossed the line of reasonable debate

I've no idea what Liverpool disease is


unprogressive, negative. The rejection of the Brunswick Quay Tower is indicative of this attitude. Liverpool is view from the outside as an argumentative do nothing city. Look at what Manchester has done in such a short space of time. They had a plan and knew what was important what was not....and went for it. I am impressed with that city. A have friends who live there and the council is superb.


It's pointless trying to discuss important issues with someone who has an agenda.

I agree. Find out what makes highly successful cities tick and projects them forward. You will find that top class infrastructure is at the top. Ken Livingstone is always on about London's infrastructure not being good enough and the likes of Paris, which is superb, will take business and wealth away from London. ...and Liverpool doesn't have infrastructure compared to London.

Pouring money to tart up run down areas is pouring money into a bottomless pit. The money has to be used to project the areas/city forward. A bit like Thatcher who squandered North Sea Oil revenues. She used it to pay unemployment benefit, not invest in the future. Wasted. Public money when spent has to matter and be a base on which people can progress and build on.

I feel as it I am saying the same thing over and over to you as you can't get something so fundamentally simple.

I'm not a fan of Wetherspoon pubs - and would certainly be keen on a proposal such as a cinema.
The reason I say that the jury is out in my mind about the proposal is the fact that in the 12 or so years I've known it, it has been an awful building with little prospects for being turned into anything of any note.

Wetherspoons - as a large corporate with a brand image to maintain, and enough cash to do that - would be an improvement in my mind.
I don't see anyone else joining the queue to take on this building.

It may be due to the long term lack of action in other key sites in this area, that I am less hopeful of the better alternatives turning up.

One thing that I would not welcome is another boarded up sh!th0le for the area to have to cope with.

If Wetherspoons are the only company interested then I suppose they will get the site at a knock down price unless a last minute bid is made

I do think Manchester was helped along a little with the aid of a bomb though. Even their own commentators admit that.

I do think Manchester was helped along a little with the aid of a bomb though. Even their own commentators admit that.

They may have. However they have done a brilliant job of the rest. They managed their regeneration,and image, brilliantly.

For the past 10 years there has been hot air about two new stadia in the city - so far, nothing!!!! Not one brick laid. In the meantime Manchester built a brand new stadium and has fully updated another to world class, while one club in Liverpool still has wooden stands.

I recall about three years ago Paxman interviewing an expert on regeneration on Newsnight. Paxman mentioned the regeneration in Liverpool. The expert responded that Liverpool has done little while Manchester surged ahead. He mentioned the new city centre development in Manchester and other projects, saying Liverpool would still be arguing over these and never gets anything done - the Brunswick Quay Tower comes mind - the developers said it would have been built by now. He was not complimentary towards the city at all. Those in power think this way too. When one £billion developments are thrown on their laps, they turn them down - Brunswick Quay Tower again.

The image has to be changed ASAP. A few forgettable low rise apartment buildings is not going to do that. The European City of Culture will be short lived and outside Liverpool few know of it.

The city needs an overall firm plan, moving the city to the dock waterways and river. It needs to know where it wants to go and what to do. The greatest legacy, which ever other city in the world would drool over, the redundant docks waterways, has to be used to great effect.

Read all the city planning documents and all you read is weasel words that appear to say positive things, then on closer inspection say nothing. Lots of hot air about vision, etc. Nothing firm.

They may have. However they have done a brilliant job of the rest. They managed their regeneration,and image, brilliantly.

For the past 10 years there has been hot air about two new stadia in the city - so far, nothing!!!! Not one brick laid. In the meantime Manchester built a brand new stadium and has fully updated another to world class, while one club in Liverpool still has wooden stands.

I recall about three years ago Paxman interviewing an expert on regeneration on Newsnight. Paxman mentioned the regeneration in Liverpool. The expert responded that Liverpool has done little while Manchester surged ahead. He mentioned the new city centre development in Manchester and other projects, saying Liverpool would still be arguing over these and never gets anything done - the Brunswick Quay Tower comes mind - the developers said it would have been built by now. He was not complimentary towards the city at all. Those in power think this way too. When one £billion developments are thrown on their laps, they turn them down - Brunswick Quay Tower again.

The image has to be changed ASAP. A few forgettable low rise apartment buildings is not going to do that. The European City of Culture will be short lived and outside Liverpool few know of it.

The city needs an overall firm plan, moving the city to the dock waterways and river. It needs to know where it wants to go and what to do. The greatest legacy, which ever other city in the world would drool over, the redundant docks waterways, has to be used to great effect.

Read all the city planning documents and all you read is weasel words that appear to say positive things, then on closer inspection say nothing. Lots of hot air about vision, etc. Nothing firm.

Brilliant post :)

I do think Manchester was helped along a little with the aid of a bomb though. Even their own commentators admit that.

I don't know what Manchester looked like in the 80's but it looks much better than Liverpool and has famous shops that we haven't managed to attract yet(Debenhams ,Harvey Nichols etc) It's too late to make Liverpool (esp the surrounding areas of the city centre) look its best for 2008. We wanted something to eat on Saturday night and Lodge Lane was suggsted.It is so neglected it is beyond a joke. We ended up in Lark Lane -clean and friendly.

TSB, Park Road (former Liverpool Savings Bank, South Branch).
Over the past few weeks I've seen workmen in here a few times, usually ripping out wood. I hope it's not getting demolished. A while back I noticed some of the old furniture in a skip outside.
There's a new plastic sheet on the roof, which is an 'improvement'. Today, smoke was coming out of the chimney...something I've never seen before from this building, plus hammering coming from inside.
There's a small Liver-bird emblem above the door, for anyone who hasn't spotted it yet.

Protesters are fighting a plan to knock down St Peters Church in High Park St and build flats instead.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/12/10/protesters-fight-church-demolition-100252-20227149/

Protesters are fighting a plan to knock down St Peters Church in High Park St and build flats instead.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/12/10/protesters-fight-church-demolition-100252-20227149/


I wonder if they're trying to get it Listed, because ultimately it's only Listing that is guaranteed to save a building from being demolished.

Does listing a building actually guarantee it from demolition though Philip, I thought it didn't.?

well look what happened to the sandstone houses on Breck rd. :sad:

Does listing a building actually guarantee it from demolition though Philip, I thought it didn't.?

well look what happened to the sandstone houses on Breck rd. :sad:

No you just need to jump through a few more hoops to demolish it. If it becomes unsafe fr example, then its perfectly acceptable to demolish it.

http://www.heritage.co.uk/apavilions/glstb.html

Does anyone know what happened to all the statues of historical people down Princes Avenue that were removed after the riots in 81?

I think they should be placed back.:snf (41):

Does listing a building actually guarantee it from demolition though Philip, I thought it didn't.?

well look what happened to the sandstone houses on Breck rd. :sad:

Yes.
A Listed Building can be "de-Listed" and then demolished, and there are some notable cases (2 cinemas in Southport, for example) but, whether we like it or not, Listing is still (usually) the only guarantee that a building won't get demolished, and we've got to work with the d*mned system.

Were those buildings in Breck Road Listed, though?
I keep saying this, but "Just because you think a building is Listed. Check. Because it probably isn't".

The Princes Avenue statues were put into "safe keeping".

I've just checked.
Those houses weren't Listed.
Two churches are Listed in Breck Road, but nothing else.

* April 14, 1975 II Breck Road Church of Holy Trinity
* April 14, 1975 II Breck Road L5 Richmond Baptist Church

Philip, I don't know if Lindy done some jiggery pokery with my posting regarding 'those breck road houses that I have no knowledge of' but I didn't post that line. :) Honest!!!!!

Liverpool Heritage newsletter:

AT THE TOP END OF TOWN

Ø The area where Abercromby Square and Falkner Square are situated were once there was an area of marshy ground called the Moss Lake, which drained into the inland end of the Pool of Liverpool behind World Museum Liverpool. The most important present occupants of this site are the University of Liverpool and the Metropolitan (Roman Catholic) Cathedral.

Ø The University of Liverpool has a programme of celebrations for 2008, which are shown on its website. The centrepiece will be the opening in July 2008 of the Victoria Gallery and Museum which will see the opening to the public of the iconic Victoria Building. The building, in Brownlow Hill, was designed by Alfred Waterhouse. Decorations were by Brindley & Farmer, a London firm of decorative craftsmen. This was the original red brick university and demonstrated Waterhouse's “high gothic” that saw him dubbed 'Slaughterhouse Waterhouse'. The landmark clocktower (with chimes) was paid for by public subscription to mark the Golden Jubilee of Queen Victoria in 1887, though the building was completed only in 1892. William Farmer (1823–79) and William Brindley (1832-1919), produced much of the carving for Sir George Gilbert Scott, Giles Gilbert Scott's grandfather, including his Albert Memorial, London (1875).

Ø At the Metropolitan Cathedral a lift and passage are being put in to enable people to get from the main (1960s) building to the Lutyens Lady Chapel without going out of doors. The Lady Chapel was the only part of the grand design of Lutyens which would have seen a vast cathedral built, a project abandoned for reasons of cost and replaced by the more modest but still monumental concrete building that we now enjoy.

Ø Also in the area of the Moss Lake and today near the south east corner of Abercromby Square and its junction with Chatham Street is a hexagonal pillar box of the 1866 design by John Penfold, cast by Cochrane, Grove & Company of Dudley. A nationally uniform pillar box was first introduced in 1859, later a more attractive design was sought and the Penfold was introduced in 1866. It is hexagonal with acanthus decoration and is surmounted by an acorn. It came in three sizes and would at first have been painted green. From 1874 onwards all post boxes, old & new, were painted red. More recently, from 1989 onwards, replicas of this design have sometimes been placed in appropriate or historically sensitive sites but this is an original.

Ø At the other end of Hope Street, a small drama has been played out as regards the organ of the Anglican Cathedral. Some months ago the organ in London’s Albert Hall was re-opened after a period of refurbishment - and enlargement, making it larger than the organ in Liverpool’s Anglican Cathedral, up to then the largest in Britain. This Newsletter forecast that the Liverpool Cathedral authorities were unlikely to be comfortable with this development. On 4 December this year the New Dean (Justin Welby) at his service of installation said that additional pipes had been added to the Liverpool organ and that it was now once again the biggest in the land. What a pity that the biggest of Liverpool Cathedral’s bells is second to the biggest bell in London’s St Paul’s Cathedral. Could anything be done about this? Probably not!

Philip, I don't know if Lindy done some jiggery pokery with my posting regarding 'those breck road houses that I have no knowledge of' but I didn't post that line. :) Honest!!!!!

sorry Ged - that was me :) the quote didn't work and I hadn't noticed :rolleyes:

Hi Philip,

Going a bit off topic here as I posted this in the Anfield thread too :PDT_Xtremez_42: ... but to quote that same post :
I was told that there was originally a bigger row of these sandstone houses - (probably where the Co-Op funeral place is now).

Opposite is Holy Trinity church, Breck rd. the church is built in the same red brick.
I am told that anything pre 1840 is automatically listed Grade 2, so I don't know why these houses have been ignored.
The one remaining block is still in it's original state, but the other one could have been renovated by having all that horrible white plaster removed and for the sandstone to be restored.



I know someone who went in to look at the houses and said that they were not, in his opinion, in such a poor state that they should be demolished. They could easily have been done up.

- anyway, too late - they have gone :(

I had mentioned it in this thread to show that they usually get their own way in the end and demolish.

sorry - let's get back to the subject of St Peters :) :)

Lindy.
I think I've said this before, but nothing is automatically Listed, no matter what the age.
If English Heritage don't know about a building, how can they List it?

sorry Ged - that was me :) the quote didn't work and I hadn't noticed :rolleyes:


That's ok Lindy, I know you loved those little houses :)

re graded buildings.

Was talking to Frank Carlyle today. He was signing DVD's in radio Merseyside.
I mentioned to him about the demolition of the sandstone houses. After talking about that, he went on to tell us about other buildings that we have lost - and how St Brides, the church in Percy st L.8 was threatened with demlotion with plans to build - - yes, you've guessed it - - yet more apartments. :rolleyes: -modern apartments in Percy st !! :shock: .. and he went on to tell us how Commutation row had the first school in the world for the blind - and yes - they pulled it down !! That whole row was listed. That school for the blind could have been a museum now.

So being listed isn't always foolproof. :(

re graded buildings.

Was talking to Frank Carlyle today. He was signing DVD's in radio Merseyside.
I mentioned to him about the demolition of the sandstone houses. After talking about that, he went on to tell us about other buildings that we have lost - and how St Brides, the church in Percy st L.8 was threatened with demlotion with plans to build - - yes, you've guessed it - - yet more apartments. :rolleyes: -modern apartments in Percy st !! :shock: .. and he went on to tell us how Commutation row had the first school in the world for the blind - and yes - they pulled it down !! That whole row was listed. That school for the blind could have been a museum now.

So being listed isn't always foolproof. :(


Lindy, I hate to keep banging on about this, but just because somebody tells you a building is Listed doesn't make it a fact.
None of the buildings in Commutation Row were ever Listed.
Kev has published the full list somewhere, and I've copied it all out.
Yes, the first School for the Blind was in Commutation Row, but it was put in an existing building, not purpose-built as it was when it moved to the site where the Odeon now is.

Hoping they don't pull down St Brides in Percy st though. I have been in that church a number of times, some years back.
I guess congregation numbers have dwindled though in recent years. It would be a sad day to see it demolished. Havn't been down past that way for ages. I'm presuming the church is not in use at all now ?

They should be putting money into that wonderful area, not knocking things down!
It makes me so mad!!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrr

Hoping they don't pull down St Brides in Percy st though. I have been in that church a number of times, some years back.
I guess congregation numbers have dwindled though in recent years. It would be a sad day to see it demolished. Havn't been down past that way for ages. I'm presuming the church is not in use at all now ?

St Bride's is still an active church but admittedly with a small congregation. It needs the community's support if it is to survive. Although it has an L8 post code, it's not in Toxteth.

Hi all

Just been reading Buildings of Liverpool by the Liverpool Heritage Bureau, and it says about a Post Office Pillar Box on the corner of Northumberland St and Mill St. It was a hexagonal type erected in the 1860's/70's.

Anyone know any info/pics?

Does anyone have any pics of Windsor Street in the 60's/70's?

My grandad had a shop at the top, where the new bungalows are now.

There was James' chippy on the same block I think

Hoping they don't pull down St Brides in Percy st though. I have been in that church a number of times, some years back.
I guess congregation numbers have dwindled though in recent years. It would be a sad day to see it demolished. Havn't been down past that way for ages. I'm presuming the church is not in use at all now ?

If that church is pulled down so new apartments can be built , it will be sacrilege! Liverpool doesn't make enough of its Architecture , such a missed opportunity

I have a long overdue pictorial update for Toxteth to upload in the next week (all going well). As per useral, you all get a sneek preview! If there is any additional information which would be of use, please don't hesitate to post! All credit will be given!

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff167/tranmererusko/2007-12-01107.jpg
Vining Street, Toxteth Taken from North Hill Street, we see terraced streets criss-cross Vining Street for its full length. The Catholic Cathedral can be seen peering over the rooftops in the distance.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff167/tranmererusko/2007-12-01094.jpg
Enid Street, Toxteth New Heartlands are in the process building new homes on land which was cleared a while ago. Unlike its neighbours, the new properties will be detached and will also be set back from the road. This also means that the buildings will be smaller due to the plot being the same size to that of a terrace.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff167/tranmererusko/2007-12-01086.jpg
Dombey Street, Toxteth Toxteth isn't known for its tree-lined streets, but it is scenes like this which add to the beauty of this part of the city. One hopes, however, the roots don't start to de-stablise the buildings, causing further demolitions.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff167/tranmererusko/2007-12-01083.jpg
Windsor Street, Toxteth As shown earlier by a fellow member, one of the Edwardian shop units collapsed a few months ago; one hopes this doesn't spur on further demolition. In the background is a modern shop unit which is being built as part of regeneration plans. It does stand out somewhat but once it has mellowed, it may look at home. Only time will tell!

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff167/tranmererusko/2007-12-01080.jpg
Windsor Street, Toxteth Looking up Windsor Street toward Admiral Street with a range of buildings lining this thoroughfare.

I hope you have all enjoyed this selection of images, I write this whilst listening to the opening ceremony on the radio. Tried News 24, but it was bitty. They said it would be full coverage; and was it? no! But thats for another thread!

All the best

Russ

Hi all

Just been reading Buildings of Liverpool by the Liverpool Heritage Bureau, and it says about a Post Office Pillar Box on the corner of Northumberland St and Mill St. It was a hexagonal type erected in the 1860's/70's.

Anyone know any info/pics?

I posted many letters there. It was one of only two or three in the country and was taken way. It still survives somewhere

It was just to the right, a shame as just off picture below. This is Northumberland St near the Mill St junction. Woods the dentist is clearly seen.

Nice Photos Wallasey, I was in Liverpool for New Year, my Mum and dads is just off Upper Warry., I was standing at the bus stop opposite the bookies that collapsed with my Mrs, the kids and me old man, and we were saying about the state of the old wallpaper in there, and the paint on the timberwork looked like red lead. On the top floorof whats left standing is an old upright piano, and wondering about how and when they got that up there. Then the bus turned up.

I posted many letters there. It was one of only two or three in the country and was taken way. It still survives somewhere

It was just to the right, a shame as just off picture below. This is Northumberland St near the Mill St junction. Woods the dentist is clearly seen.

Absolutely brilliant!

Thank you so much for that pic!

Where's it from?

Absolutely brilliant!

Thank you so much for that pic!

Where's it from?

http://www.toxteth.net

Here is the same junction from Mill St.

http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverpool/general/images/mill%20street%20183.jpg

This site contains Microsoft Powerpoint files of the Ancient Chapel, the Town Hall and the Synagogue.
http://www.toxtethlearningnetwork.co.uk/gallery_detail.asp?Section=18&Ref=116

A couple of recent lampost Planning Notices:

Land between Caryl Street/Grafton Street (120 apartments ). A note on the constraints for this site states: 250m of Landfill Site, Location DOCK AREA, L3/L17/L19.

Great Eastern Pub (Harlow/Mill Street), 12 apartments.

Sefton Street (another car showroom, by the current ones, between Hill St/Northumberland St)

Took some pics of Ducie Street and around Granby Street today.

How sad to see these fantastic examples of architecture in such a state and apparently have been that way for a number of years.

DUCIE STREET

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Carrie132/Liverpool/27012008191.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Carrie132/Liverpool/27012008188.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Carrie132/Liverpool/27012008192.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Carrie132/Liverpool/27012008196.jpg

Jermyn Street

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Carrie132/Liverpool/27012008197.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Carrie132/Liverpool/27012008198.jpg

The Stables, Grafton Street: This was being surveyed yesterday (looked like height measurements were being taken). I haven't checked for any planning notices yet.

Ellis Place (top of Park Road): A pic of this narrow street was in the Liverpool Echo. The gates that blocked this Public Highway have been removed. No doubt, to allow for the demolition of the adjacent Church.

The Stables, Grafton Street: This was being surveyed yesterday (looked like height measurements were being taken). I haven't checked for any planning notices yet.

Ellis Place (top of Park Road): A pic of this narrow street was in the Liverpool Echo. The gates that blocked this