ITV in Croxteth gun incident

[Kev]

Not sure how I felt when hearing this.

Part of me throught, what the heck are they thinking, putting an unorganised film crew on the streets, they are bound to be a target. Especially if they arrived with a motive to look for trouble.

I also thought it might have been an inacurate description and never happened like its been reported.

I then thought that the army should be sent in, like they do with insurgents in Iraq.

ITV attacked over 'guns on Liverpool street' claim (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/01/28/itv-attacked-over-guns-on-liverpool-street-claim-64375-20402975/)

SCEPTICAL community leaders today hit back after a TV crew claimed they were attacked and had a gun pulled on them while filming on the streets of Liverpool. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/01/28/itv-attacked-over-guns-on-liverpool-street-claim-64375-20402975/)

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Gun aimed at BBC radio presenter

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44385000/jpg/_44385569_fogarty_203.jpg
The BBC presenter grew up in the Croxteth area

A BBC 5Live presenter from Liverpool has had a gun pointed at her while filming a TV documentary in Croxteth.

Shelagh Fogarty was filming for an ITV Tonight with Trevor McDonald..more (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7212556.stm)

[raymocon]

Frankly I believe she is another sensationalist journalist trying to boost the ratings of tonight’s program. Go and join the Sun Shelagh it sums up your level.:shock:

[Steven]

She never reported the incident in case the programme was pulled ! I believe she is a sensationalist and I for one will not watch the prog.

[Max]

You play with matches, you'll get burned apply here? A resident did say they were revving up youths provoking them.

[GingerTheCat]

I listen to 5 live most mornings. I would describe her as very Liverpool friendly. She isn't a sensationalist journalist.

[ChrisGeorge]

I listen to 5 live most mornings. I would describe her as very Liverpool friendly. She isn't a sensationalist journalist.


It sounds to me that this is just another indication that the gangs are out of control and something needs to be done to take the streets back.

Chris

[Paul D]

If they have no footage of the incident how do we know it happened? Anyone can say anything and we're meant to take their word for it.Why were they not in Nottingham after the double shooting because surely that's a more news worthy story? Why is this the story to be highlighted when women don't feel safe walking the streets of London? Women I know feel safe here,here is not far from the notorious Strand by the way.If camera crews go pointing cameras at youths in these neighbourhoods they're going to be a target,that's not rocket science.I expected all this to start this year,they don't want a resurgent Liverpool,I'll not be watching it,if I want to watch fantasy I'll stick to Disney.

[ChrisGeorge]

If they have no footage of the incident how do we know it happened?

But isn't this what the courts system is all about? Not all incidents are videotaped or photographed but presumably there were witnesses to what happened, including the boys who are said to have pulled the gun. It sounds as if the police are taking the report seriously.

Chris

[Kev]

Its been the thing to do recently by reporters and journalists up and down the country, to come to Croxteth.

I gave that City Talk a listen before and the presenter on there had just been the previous day!:rolleyes:

[Chris48]

But isn't this what the courts system is all about? Not all incidents are videotaped or photographed but presumably there were witnesses to what happened, including the boys who are said to have pulled the gun. It sounds as if the police are taking the report seriously.

Chris


Yeah Chris, it's top priority !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7213016.stm

[geoffrey]

Seems that they'll be having reports from London, Nottingham and Liverpool

http://www.itv.com/News/tonight/episodes/Womeninfear/default.html

[ChrisGeorge]

Yeah Chris, it's top priority !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7213016.stm



Well okay, that shows the BBC themselves are playing it down a bit, however--

"Merseyside police are investigating the incident and have found the vehicle they believe was used.

"A spokesperson said: 'This is a serious incident and we're taking every possible step to find the offenders and recover the weapon.'"

As reported at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7212556.stm

[John(Zappa)]

Apparently the reporters had been driving around the area for a bit.Obviously the kids got word of this.
So being what they are today they decided to do what comes natural to them.They have gotta keep their street reputation and let other areas know "how hard they are".So this is no suprise to me.It won't be long before a copper gets shot just to prove "they're mad and so hard".It's their way of life sad as it is.

[SteH]

Apparently the reporters had been driving around the area for a bit.Obviously the kids got word of this.
So being what they are today they decided to do what comes natural to them.They have gotta keep their street reputation and let other areas know "how hard they are".So this is no suprise to me.It won't be long before a copper gets shot just to prove "they're mad and so hard".It's their way of life sad as it is.


Already happened John, allegedly

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/10/11/teenager-on-kill-bid-charge-100252-19931303/

[John(Zappa)]

The programme made Liverpool look the worst.
All other cities where reported from the city centre.Ours-the suburbs.
London highlighted a bag theft,Nottingham-a knife incident.Liverpool was an in depth report and confrontation with local youths,consisting of stone throwing and supposedly threatening behaviour with a gun.
Was this programme purposely made for the outcome to be Liverpool depicted as the worst city of the three.? If so they have accomplished what they set out to achieve.:handclap:

[Steven]

The programme made Liverpool look the worst.
All other cities where reported from the city centre.Ours-the suburbs.
London highlighted a bag theft,Nottingham-a knife incident.Liverpool was an in depth report and confrontation with local youths,consisting of stone throwing and supposedly threatening behaviour with a gun.
Was this programme purposely made for the outcome to be Liverpool depicted as the worst city of the three.? If so they have accomplished what they set out to achieve.:handclap:

Well said John :handclap: It was a put up job.

[corky100]

Regardless of where it happened, the point is that it does happen. Liverpool, Manchester, Nottingham, London etc etc, its there, they are free to roam, pull out guns (and shoot) beat pensioners on their doorstep, beat innocent citizens (as well as their own) to death for nothing more than a wrongly timed look, I could go on and on. It does happen here unfortunately, it should be accepted and then tackled.

pointing out Liverpool may have the added side effect of allowing extra resources to tackle it. That can only be a good thing, surely?

Point is when will it stop, or even be taken seriously? I applaud the reporters solely for highlighting it (whether goaded or not, did they still have the right to point a gun? surely no one is justifying that?), no matter where they had gone, it should be put at the forefront of the goverments agenda, not on the bakc boiler.

Its a problem that will get further and further out of hand unless proper action is taken to stem it. And that starts with protecting us, the innocent, and providing proper policing, and reasserting authority.

No authority, and nanny state will eventually signal anarchy. I already booked my place on the Ark II :D

[John(Zappa)]

Regardless of where it happened, the point is that it does happen. Liverpool, Manchester, Nottingham, London etc etc, its there, they are free to roam, pull out guns (and shoot) beat pensioners on their doorstep, beat innocent citizens (as well as their own) to death for nothing more than a wrongly timed look, I could go on and on. It does happen here unfortunately, it should be accepted and then tackled.

:D

Accepted then tackled ?????????
Don't reckon on that idea.Accept my dad being mugged,robbed or whatever and then tackle why it happened?
Surely it should be eradicated before it becomes an issue over acceptance?

[wallasey]

To be blunt, your asking for trouble being in Croxteth at gone 10 at night with a film crew...its just not done.

I dont like how just because the area witnessed a truely terrible crime back in last year, the media have to come and make "special" crime programmes portraying areas like these as being unsafe. Yes this and many similar areas like it have problems, but what good will this programme do? tell people what they already know??

Unless the journalist(s) involved can come up with realistic solutions with regards to solving an areas problems, then I am all in favour seeing programmes like this. But if they are just going to cast negative aspersions onto areas which have seen a mixture of the good and bad, then its just an utter waster of valuable film.

Apologies of my view on this matter seems to be a little unsympathetic but that is my current view.

[corky100]

Accepted then tackled ?????????
Don't reckon on that idea.Accept my dad being mugged,robbed or whatever and then tackle why it happened?
Surely it should be eradicated before it becomes an issue over acceptance?

Sorry, that didn't appear as intended! it meant to say 'accept its a serious problem' and then tackle it (obviously before it has chance to happen!). some people just don't think its an issue yet when obviously its a very serious one...

[chippie]

that silly reporter said on the radio that as she was from here she wouldn,t set out to diss the city. Well if she didn,t then I don,t know what she did. She did,t put Liverpool in a good light.

[Ged]

Quote from Wallasey 'To be blunt, your asking for trouble being in Croxteth at gone 10 at night with a film crew...its just not done.'

Wallasey. You should not feel uneasy anywhere in your own city - full stop.

I don't like Thatcher that much but when she said she was coming up to Liverpool at the time of the Toxteth riots, she was advised against it because it was a 'no go area'.

'NO', there are no 'no go areas' she said and came up.

That's the sort of balls required to sort the sorry mess out - that, and proper, stiffer sentences.

We have to ask 'what came first' the guns or the ITV. If they'd driven around Woolton gone 10pm, they'd have probably seen nothing but a drunk staggering out of the pub, they were up in Crocky because of what's happening there - the agenda isn't hidden, it's bang on.

[Jock]

I listen to 5Live most mornings (although admittedly not for the past 2 weeks - I've not had a car), and don't associate her with sensational journalism. I also get the impression shes very pro-Liverpool.

I personally believe the reason that the media are so concentrated in the Croxteth area at the moment is the Rhys shooting happened in August. So far no-one has been charged and there have been a lot of promises by government and local authorities about tackling the issues in the area.

The promises of the 24 hour visible policing when announced resulted in a non-stop patrol. I'd see it every night as I came home from work, and most evenings when I'd be out and about. However, I can honestly say I haven't seen a police car / person for about the past 3/4 weeks now. The policiing has gone very quiet, and sure enough the scallies are starting to hang about again now.

The problem hasn't been addressed, and if the council believe its a quick fix of sending high visibility patrols for a few weeks at a time, then there very much mistaken.

I'm afraid I suspect the national media will be descending (and portraying in a bad light) Croxteth for some considerable time yet...

[Kev]

Why hasn't this happened so publically in Moss Side etc?

Anyway, moving on....

Whta annoys me to death about this and other associated problems is the weakness of the Government to do anything about it.

In no civilised country that is suppose to be free (it aint if you are governed by intimidation and poor standards of behaviour) should this happen, no ***** footing around is going to solve it, as far as I'm concerned its will only get worse. Unless stiff action is taken NOW, which it won't there fore I'm left with only one alternative if I want my kids to be brought up how I want them to be, move away from the UK.

My kids deserve better, in fact we all do.

[PhilipG]

I avoid ITV News, Granada Reports and documentaries on ITV.
They are always more 'Sensational' than if they'd been reported by the BBC.

[ChrisGeorge]

I listen to 5Live most mornings (although admittedly not for the past 2 weeks - I've not had a car), and don't associate her with sensational journalism. I also get the impression shes very pro-Liverpool.

I personally believe the reason that the media are so concentrated in the Croxteth area at the moment is the Rhys shooting happened in August. So far no-one has been charged and there have been a lot of promises by government and local authorities about tackling the issues in the area.

The promises of the 24 hour visible policing when announced resulted in a non-stop patrol. I'd see it every night as I came home from work, and most evenings when I'd be out and about. However, I can honestly say I haven't seen a police car / person for about the past 3/4 weeks now. The policiing has gone very quiet, and sure enough the scallies are starting to hang about again now.

The problem hasn't been addressed, and if the council believe its a quick fix of sending high visibility patrols for a few weeks at a time, then there very much mistaken.

I'm afraid I suspect the national media will be descending (and portraying in a bad light) Croxteth for some considerable time yet...


I guess they are just waiting for the next child to be shot. That's a harsh statement and an appalling prospect but quite possibly will happen. Disgusting.

Chris

[Paul D]

If anyone was listening to Radio Merseyside last night they reported that on the lunchtime phone in with Roger Phillips, Fogarty had said that the gun incident related to her apparently seeing 'the light from the viewfinder of a gun being shone through the blacked out window of a car' A light from a viewfinder??? Is she saying that the people in the car had laser sights on their gun and she is such an expert in firearms and munitions that she can spot this through a blacked out window? What are they on about? This sounds very different to someone pointing a gun out of a window which suggests a rolled down window and the gun actually being pointed at you.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions but this was posted on ssc.:rolleyes:

[Ged]

Sounds more than a bit iffy does that.

[lindylou]

Why hasn't this happened so publically in Moss Side etc?

Anyway, moving on....

Whta annoys me to death about this and other associated problems is the weakness of the Government to do anything about it.

In no civilised country that is suppose to be free (it aint if you are governed by intimidation and poor standards of behaviour) should this happen, no ***** footing around is going to solve it, as far as I'm concerned its will only get worse. Unless stiff action is taken NOW, which it won't there fore I'm left with only one alternative if I want my kids to be brought up how I want them to be, move away from the UK.

My kids deserve better, in fact we all do.


That's the way I feel too. I love Liverpool and would never want to leave it. However, the state of the way things are going (or have gone) in UK make me think there is no alternative but to get away.

[lindylou]

I avoid ITV News, Granada Reports and documentaries on ITV.
They are always more 'Sensational' than if they'd been reported by the BBC.

I don't watch any of those reports now. They are just too depressing. :(

I stopped watching those documentaries about crime - they just get me angry.

[corky100]

Why hasn't this happened so publically in Moss Side etc?

Anyway, moving on....

Whta annoys me to death about this and other associated problems is the weakness of the Government to do anything about it.


It was, when it was a huge issue there in the late 80s and early 90s. Moss side was the first thing that came to most minds when the words guns and gangs were mentioned. Now its synonymous with most cities and beginning to filter into towns too.
Croxteth and Norris Green are notoriously gang riddled, and I experienced (as i mentioned here more than once) how little the police react to it, which is why I moved from the fringes of Norris Green. As it stands these problems will get worse before they get better. Its beyond journalism, its a real problem and needs to be taken seriously.
The 'laser light' does indeed sound iffy, but we all know that its a reality that there's kids running around with guns, and carelessly using them. Don't we?

[chippie]

I don,t think it was a laser light at all, probably the reflection in the mirror of her bloody compact case as she was fluffing herself up:PDT_Piratz_26:

[PhilipG]

Even Woolton has gangs of youths.
They probably don't seem so threatening because they're well dressed.

[Partsky]

Yes, its an important story. A child has been killed and good, decent people are rightly worried. However, just because a journalist was born nearby does not give them a better insight into the city. As many other previous postees have pointed out, wandering around any area with a film crew you immediately draw attention to yourself. The knobhead contingent in this area, as in any troubled area will put Ken Dodd to shame if you shine a light of them. Its the low I Q you know. That and the weapons. I worked this area for years as a council worker until recently, and was met by nothing but kindness and decency, and I must have walked around the area dozens and dozens and times and gone on over 500 visits over 3 years, many on "gang" territories. I was never intimidated or followed and my car was never damaged.; probably because I knew it was sensible to keep a low profile and I did not draw attention to myself. However, its not a way that anyone should have to live and the fact that a little boy lost his life simply going home is the proof of that. I worked also in Anfield and Kirkdale during the terrible drug shootings there and yes it could be frightening but as usual, vast majority of the people were great. Decent people, often on low incomes, forced to be quiet by (often) young idiots with guns, knives, imitating the older wave of dealers who were not better but were, shall we say, more discreet, about their wrongdoing. The shame is the really nice people forced to stay silent to protect their households. There is a culture of "looking the other way" in these gang families. They say nothing when they see their kids come in with trainers costing £100 and the latest phones whilst not even bothering to sign on. They look the other way when they bring home goods obviously nicked from decent peoples houses. They know what they are up to. but they do nothing. Its easier. Sometimes they pay the ultimate price and follow the horse drawn funeral and take pages and pages of adverts in the Echo (where they are often described totally inaccurately as "loved by all", "a loveable rogue" or worse of all "a gentleman"thats without the abhorrent "Soldier/solja crap), and help to build the shrines that no one can tear down without their windows going in. Its only in their homes that it can be controlled, whether it croxteth, anfield or any other area of this or any other City where drugs are the currency of power. In the meanwhile, the decent people of Croxteth or anywhere else have to watch their tongues to avoid damage to them. Its a sad, sad situation. Arrest the parents. Its where the rot often begins or is allowed to begin, sadly.

[shytalk]

The knobhead contingent in this area, as in any troubled area will put Ken Dodd to shame if you shine a light of them.

Can you please explain what you mean by this?

[ChrisGeorge]

The knobhead contingent in this area, as in any troubled area will put Ken Dodd to shame if you shine a light of them.


Can you please explain what you mean by this?

Hi Shy

Partsky can answer, but I would interpret this statement to mean that given the spotlight, the scallys will act up for the journalists.

Chris

[lindylou]

Yes, its an important story. A child has been killed and good, decent people are rightly worried. However, just because a journalist was born nearby does not give them a better insight into the city. As many other previous postees have pointed out, wandering around any area with a film crew you immediately draw attention to yourself. The knobhead contingent in this area, as in any troubled area will put Ken Dodd to shame if you shine a light of them. Its the low I Q you know. That and the weapons. I worked this area for years as a council worker until recently, and was met by nothing but kindness and decency, and I must have walked around the area dozens and dozens and times and gone on over 500 visits over 3 years, many on "gang" territories. I was never intimidated or followed and my car was never damaged.; probably because I knew it was sensible to keep a low profile and I did not draw attention to myself. However, its not a way that anyone should have to live and the fact that a little boy lost his life simply going home is the proof of that. I worked also in Anfield and Kirkdale during the terrible drug shootings there and yes it could be frightening but as usual, vast majority of the people were great. Decent people, often on low incomes, forced to be quiet by (often) young idiots with guns, knives, imitating the older wave of dealers who were not better but were, shall we say, more discreet, about their wrongdoing. The shame is the really nice people forced to stay silent to protect their households. There is a culture of "looking the other way" in these gang families. They say nothing when they see their kids come in with trainers costing £100 and the latest phones whilst not even bothering to sign on. They look the other way when they bring home goods obviously nicked from decent peoples houses. They know what they are up to. but they do nothing. Its easier. Sometimes they pay the ultimate price and follow the horse drawn funeral and take pages and pages of adverts in the Echo (where they are often described totally inaccurately as "loved by all", "a loveable rogue" or worse of all "a gentleman"thats without the abhorrent "Soldier/solja crap), and help to build the shrines that no one can tear down without their windows going in. Its only in their homes that it can be controlled, whether it croxteth, anfield or any other area of this or any other City where drugs are the currency of power. In the meanwhile, the decent people of Croxteth or anywhere else have to watch their tongues to avoid damage to them. Its a sad, sad situation. Arrest the parents. Its where the rot often begins or is allowed to begin, sadly.


Partsky - every word of that is correct :handclap:

- and what you said about the horse drawn funerals - and the pages of obituaries in the Echo - - and don't forget the small planes circling around in the sky with a banner tied at the back - ''goodnight laaaad''

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: OMG !! :rolleyes:

--- and yes it is noticed that the gangsters are always 'true gentlemen' :PDT_Xtremez_42:

the fashion for roadside shrines is a ridiculous trend. I don't agree with it. it is not dignified.

[lindylou]

I don,t think it was a laser light at all, probably the reflection in the mirror of her bloody compact case as she was fluffing herself up:PDT_Piratz_26:

I wonder if it was one of those laser light thingies what the kids have ? ( or they are not supposed to have - but they sell them freely in the shops).

[shytalk]

I watched it last night. What I found unfair was the way the two reporters in the other towns went to decent looking people and asked them how safe they felt. The Liverpool reporter went straight to the scallies knowing they would get wound up and misbehave. Definitely made Liverpool look bad deliberately.

[shoney]

I watched it last night. What I found unfair was the way the two reporters in the other towns went to decent looking people and asked them how safe they felt. The Liverpool reporter went straight to the scallies knowing they would get wound up and misbehave. Definitely made Liverpool look bad deliberately.

my mums decent and she doesn't feel safe there, i do see where you are coming from though, never beleive all you read and see on tv , thats why it's there

[shytalk]

my mums decent and she doesn't feel safe there, i do see where you are coming from though, never beleive all you read and see on tv , thats why it's there

Shoney, if you want to keep up with Brit TV join UKnova, it is a free service and the software Azureus which is needed is free too. Shows are usually available the next day.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[shoney]

Shoney, if you want to keep up with Brit TV join UKnova, it is a free service and the software Azureus which is needed is free too. Shows are usually available the next day.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

nah, rather leave it alone bar for corrie and the bill thanks

[scousejoan]

31-01-08.

If the camera crew were pelted with bottles and stones, wouldn't the shattered bottles be found splatterd about at the strand, side walks, pavement etc. On Carr lane east it was reported by the producers to a passing police patrol,of a suspicious car driving nearby, and they feared someone inside
may? have had a gun, and 48 hrs later police had still not received a complaint from the film crew. I think Shelagh Fogatys little foray in to Croxteth has back fired on them.

[chippie]

If she thought that that was scarey, she should walk into our toilet after a saturday night curry, that should frighten the life out of her and cause a thunderous rumpus in fleet street while desimating the art world. lol

[wallasey]

Ged: I do apologise if my view on Croxteth caused offence; but I must admit that I wouldn't go there by myself with a camera. Moreso at the moment as tensions are allegedly running high in that area.

It is a very sad affair when you feel that you cant walk around your own city without someone by your side. But, these people who make others lives a misery and cast a shadow over the name "Liverpool" cant call themselves scousers. Real Liverpool and Merseyside folk are not like those who terrorize communities.....and we shouldn't let these people give our great region such a bad name.

[Kev]

It is a very sad affair when you feel that you cant walk around your own city without someone by your side. But, these people who make others lives a misery and cast a shadow over the name "Liverpool" cant call themselves scousers. Real Liverpool and Merseyside folk are not like those who terrorize communities.....and we shouldn't let these people give our great region such a bad name.

Same up and down the country in communities, these feral citizens just happen to have been born here thats all.

Situations shouldn't have been allowed to get to this stage in the first place, blame people for their actions but we all knew it was going to rear its ugly head at some point. Someone lost control somewhere along the way......