The problem with appointing a body of "experts" is that their expertise is so often questionable. Cabe, the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment (http://www.cabe.org.uk/), was created by New Labour as a successor to the Fine Arts Commission allegedly run as a one-man show by Lord St John of Fawsley. It soon acquired a reputation for making dubious aesthetic pronouncements on new building projects, promoting the foolish and faddish at the expense of the tried and trusted.

Overall, Cabe often failed to apply the simple rule which it has since formulated about new buildings: that they be of better quality than those they replace. In consequence, many much-loved Victorian terraces all over the Midlands and the North are due to be demolished to make way for indifferent new housing.

But this week, at last, the developers' poodle has turned and barked. Cabe reported for the first time on one of the Government's "housing market renewal" (i.e. demolition and rebuilding) schemes, and found it badly wanting. "We think the project fails both as urban design and as architecture," say the experts of the site in Sandwell, previously pointed to by the Government as a showcase for "market renewal". The project, designed by Persimmon plc and paid for by John Prescott's amorphous Whitehall department, failed on eight out of 10 of Cabe's objectives for good design. In particular, it lacks sufficient communal space and fails to keep faith with the character of the area - errors sadly familiar from a generation ago.

The high crime rates endured by the residents of 1960s housing estates testify to the obvious truth that bad design blights lives. "Expertise" and "modernity", no matter how eye-catching on a drawing-board, are no substitute for good building. If Cabe has a reason for existing - which is not yet proved - it is surely to defend unfashionable and worthy styles of architecture against ephemeral and worthless fads. If this report signals a new determination to do so, we will all be grateful - particularly if the commission now turns its attention to the catastrophe pending in Victorian Liverpool.

Source: Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/08/31/dl3102.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/08/31/ixhome.html)

Ringo's House to be flattened. Former Beatle Ringo Starr's birthplace is to be demolished because it has "no historical significance", Liverpool City Council has said.

More (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4229068.stm)

Only historial thing about it is that he lived there.

Welsh Streets homes doomed

HUNDREDS of homes in Liverpool's historic Welsh Streets are facing demolition after an 11th-hour change of heart by housing officials.

Almost 500 homes, including Madryn Street, the former home of Beatle Ringo Starr, are now set to be bulldozed.

The controversial plans to flatten the 11 streets and rebuild were shelved earlier this year after huge protests.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15950424%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=welsh%2dstreets%2dhomes%2ddoomed-name_page.html)...

:mad:

Your guide to the new Edge Lane

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/sep2005/1/2/00000A24-8534-1325-97460C01AC1BF814.jpg

PLANS to transform Liverpool's Edge Lane with a widened road and new housing have sparked anger from some residents, whose homes will be demolished.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15960943%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=your%2dguide%2dto%2dthe%2dnew%2dedge%2d lane-name_page.html)...

Soaring house prices save 7,000 homes from the axe

ROCKETING house prices across Merseyside have led to a dramatic cut in the biggest housing demolition programme since the slum clearances of the 1960s.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16123761%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=soaring%2dhouse%2dprices%2dsave%2d7%2d0 00%2dhomes%2dfrom%2dthe%2daxe-name_page.html)...

Battle as road plan gets the go-ahead

FAMILIES living close to Liverpool's busy Edge Lane were gearing up for a fight last night after councillors gave the go-ahead to a £40m road widening scheme.

Despite pleas by local people and their three councillors, the council's planning committee voted by a majority to approve the road scheme.

The battle will now switch to a proposed public inquiry next month to decide whether compulsory purchase orders should be confirmed.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16137581%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=battle%2das%2droad%2dplan%2dgets%2dthe% 2dgo%2dahead-name_page.html)...

:angry:

THE house where Ringo Starr was born will be taken down brick by brick and preserved, it was revealed today. Housing chiefs have come under fire for wanting to demolish the Beatles drummer's first home in Liverpool's Welsh Streets area under a £54m regeneration plan. Liverpool council today announced it will carefully dismantle the Madryn Street terrace rather than bulldoze it along with almost 500 other properties.


Source (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16139788%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=we%2dll%2drebuild%2dringo%2ds%2dhouse%2 d%2dbrick%2dby%2dbrick-name_page.html)


:razz:

Quote by Cllr Flo Clucas, executive member for housing: "There has been a lot of speculation about Ringo Starr's former home in Madryn Street. I have asked officers to ensure that the property is taken down and stored. Its future use will become clear over time."

Translates to "We haven't got a bloody clue what we're going to do with it, but it'll keep 'em quiet for now."

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/jul2005/4/1/00067C2C-F56A-12CC-AA670C01AC1BF814.jpg

I wonder if the Council will think to take down the 'Madryn Street' sign before some enterprising chap half-inches it?

When they take the house down brick by brick were will they take the bricks? Will they rebuild them somewhere and make it into a tourist attraction?

They will sell the house to Japan or USA :sad: OR they will rebuild it within the new Museum on Mann Island within the moved Museum of Liverpool Life.

LIVERPOOL -- CULTURE OF DISRESPECT FOR RESIDENTS
September 07, 2005

Over four hundred homes in Liverpool face demolition, as part of the government's plans to raise house prices in the North and Midlands of England. This is another project within the 'Pathfinder' housing market renewal scheme, and is also linked to the preparation for Liverpool's term as 'City of Culture 2008'. To the residents of Liverpool's Edge Lane West, however, the scheme looks very much more like part of a culture of total disrespect for local residents on the part of politicians and corporations.

Edge Lane West has the bad luck to be chosen as part of the so-called 'eastern gateway' into Liverpool -- the council has plans for roads to be widened and new buildings built, in order to give visitors to the city of culture a smooth and pleasant ride to the city centre. As the council describes it 'The improvements planned as part of this scheme will help to give visitors a positive image of the city, which is crucial in the run-up to Liverpool's year as Capital of Culture in 2008' . This task has been undertaken by a range of 'regeneration' qangos, including the Merseyside New Heartlands Pathfinder, Northwest Regional Development Agency, and English partnerships, as well as much-hated local housing association Community 7, and Liverpool City Council. While the authorities state that half the properties have been acquired 'through negotiation' and through being empty, Community 7, as a major local landlord, has been accused by local campaigners of forcing residents out of their homes in order to cash in on the gateway project, 'Over 100 tenants have already been quietly moved out of the area... Most of these tenants will be moved out of the New Deal area altogether and ghettoised in areas which are not important to the city centre regeneration.'
However, over two hundred properties still remain inhabited, and English Partnerships (EP) -- the government's national 'regeneration' qango, has rolled out a stream of Compulsory Purchase Orders (CPOs) in January, in order to remove these obstacles to progress. EP's chairman is Margaret Ford, also a director of 'outsourcing' specialist Serco -- which runs prisons and military establishments . Other members of EP's board include James Tuckey, an advisor to BP, and various other Qangocrats. Their local equivalents, the Liverpool Land Development Company (LLDC), likewise has a board made up of the usual 'regeneration' professionals -- consultants, housing managers, and local politicians. They also include Alan James, Finance Manager, Jaguar Cars, and member of the Northwest Automotive Alliance. Lobbyists for the car industry will doubtless be pleased that the government, and Liverpool City Council, have decided that widening the roads into Liverpool is such a high priority. The LLDC part-time directors enjoy 'renumeration' from a pot of almost £160,000 and the company, which employs eleven staff, pays an average salary of £60,000. Not that they are keeping the benefits of 'regeneration' to themselves -- the construction companies Birse Civils Ltd, Mowlem plc and Alfred McAlpine Capital Projects Ltd have all been chosen to receive their share of the £65 million of public money set aside for the Liverpool 'gateway' project.

Ranged against the regeneration industry is an alliance of local residents, many organised under the banner of BEVEL -- 'better environmental vision for edge lane'. While work is not scheduled to start on the gateway project until 2006, the Public Inquiry is scheduled to start in October 2005. BEVEL are facing the regeneration qangos' legal team, and have already had to endure a series of pre-inquiry meetings before proceedings have even started. However, BEVEL have drawn up an alternative plan for Edge Lane West, and are pushing for the authorities to accept it. And BEVEL are not fighting alone -- they have support from a large number of community and heritage groups, as well as from other neighbourhoods scheduled to face the developers' axe as part of this 'regerneration' project. Local campaigners across the UK are all looking at what happens in Liverpool, and hope that the Edge Lane residents manage to face down the corporations and establish control over what happens to their streets.

For more details on the anti-Pathfinder alliance, see www.fightforourhomes.com

Source: Corporate Watch (http://www.corporatewatch.org/?lid=1950)

'Don't bother rebuilding my house brick by brick so you can still say I was born there'

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/apr2004/2/7/00044821-0EAB-1074-A1DA80BFB6FA00CE.jpg

RINGO Starr has a message for campaigners fighting to save his old home from the bulldozers: "Don't bother."

The Beatles drummer says he "does not see the sense" in preserving his former home in Liverpool's Welsh Streets.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16231431%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=%2ddon%2dt%2dbother%2drebuilding%2dmy%2 dhouse%2dbrick%2dby%2dbrick%2dso%2dyou%2dcan%2dsti ll%2dsay%2di%2dwas%2dborn%2dthere%2d-name_page.html)...

Well Ringo has just gone up a couple of notches in my estimation, seems like he's the only one talking any sense! Good on you, Ringo!:PDT_Armat

And tell Flo where to get off. :rolleyes:

Its a bit of a slap in the face for Flo eh?

No need to bulldoze Edge Lane

RESIDENTS say they have a plan to refurbish rather than bulldoze hundreds of properties in Edge Lane, Liverpool.

A public inquiry heard that campaigners believe they can transform the community alongside the main route from the M62 to the city centre by 2008 - given the chance.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16245457&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=no-need-to-bulldoze-edge-lane--name_page.html)...

:nod:

Isnt it possible that the situation will arise where nothing gets done and buildings stay empty because of these enquiries? Will the plan put forward by the residents mean that any money that was going to be pumped into the scheme will now be taken away?

The proposed scheme is already £5million short, of which £2million the Council has agreed will be paid from local taxes. Why should we pay for people's homes to be demolished to be replaced by more f*ckin' luxury apartments? :mad:

The proposed scheme is already £5million short, of which £2million the Council has agreed will be paid from local taxes. Why should we pay for people's homes to be demolished to be replaced by more f*ckin' luxury apartments? :mad:

Fair enough, I just hope it gets sorted one way or the other.

I don't think many people have an argument with the demolition of properties on Edge Lane itself necessary for the road widening. It is the demolition of a further band of properties so as to create a row of apartments along each side of the new widened Edge Lane so as 'to provide a more attractive gateway to the city for visitors to the European Capital of Culture 2008' that is controversial. These will be neither affordable or appropriate to the existing residents of the area. :sad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/images/2005/11/09/new_bus_home_203x152.jpg

The new Paradise Street bus station is set to open as the Liverpool One project takes shape.

The first stage of the Liverpool One scheme, the multi-million pound Paradise Street Interchange, opens on Sunday November 13th.

More (http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/articles/2005/11/08/travel_businterchange_new_feature.shtml)....

A quick pop quiz.......... where was the original Liverpool?.

When did Lancashire villages of Garston and Walton become incorporated into the city Liverpool?. :unibrow:

A quick pop quiz.......... where was the original Liverpool?.

When did Lancashire villages of Garston and Walton become incorporated into the city Liverpool?. :unibrow:


do you mean the original 7 streets location?

That would be a great start Loo, but I'm thinking more 1850ish, Vauxhall, and Toxteth ;)

wasnt Garston 1902, Walton was 1895 and Toxteth 1835?

I thought Walton joined in 1901/1902 ??? :shock:

i looked in a book and it said 1895! (i know its cheating)

i looked in a book and it said 1895! (i know its cheating)


Heheh :) , I'm 79.5% sure that Walton was incoporated in the 20th century, but theres Walton and then theres Walton eh?

Wheres me book :)

Heheh :) , I'm 79.5% sure that Walton was incoporated in the 20th century, but theres Walton and then theres Walton eh?

Wheres me book :)

thats a very precise percentage

thats a very precise percentage


heheh :)

I found a good Liverpool site the other week, I'll post the address here : http://members.aol.com/scottwheelerband/liverpoolhistory.htm


Walton, and Walton village, I may be confused ;)

Save our homes
Mar 13 2006
By Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/mar2006/9/5/0007E68F-63D9-1415-868F0C02AC1BF824.jpg

STEVE BROOKS lives in a three-storey terrace with bright red brickwork and an arched roof.

But not for much longer. For the father-of-six lives right in the middle of a regeneration zone - and the clock is ticking down to when the bulldozers move in.

His home in Exeter Road, Bootle, is surrounded by derelict, boarded-up houses, all awaiting demolition.

But Mr Brooks hopes it will not come to that. He is part of Neighbours Against Demolition, a protest group hoping to scupper the current controversial plan.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16808794%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=save%2dour%2dhomes-name_page.html)...

:(

Late move to stop Edge Lane highway
Mar 23 2006
By Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo

RESIDENTS have launched a last-ditch bid to stop bulldozers moving into Liverpool's Edge Lane.

It means plans to widen the traffic-clogged route, demolish 500 homes and build a new city centre community are again in doubt.

Campaigner Elizabeth Pascoe will challenge the £350m scheme in the high court.

But regeneration chiefs were today confident the long-awaited project would not be delayed.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16853389%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=late%2dmove%2dto%2dstop%2dedge%2dlane%2 dhighway-name_page.html)...

JOHN PRESCOTT'S plans to demolish hundreds of homes on Merseyside will repeat the disasters of the 1950s and 1960s, a public inquiry was told yesterday.

Campaigners were at the hearing to save 400 Victorian villas in 10 Bootle streets from bulldozers under the Government's Housing Market Renewal Initiative (HMRI).

Yesterday, they compared the programme with post-war slum demolitions that replaced Victorian housing with low-cost, low quality flats.

Community leader Mary Owens spoke on behalf of the Neighbours Against Demolition group, which believes the properties, in Queens Road and Bedford Road, should be refurbished instead.

She said: "A large part of my working life has been spent working with community action groups largely on estates that were built in the 1950s and 1960s.

"People lived in walk-up flats and maisonettes and weren't prepared to continue to live in them any more.

"One of the greatest planning disasters ever was the demolitions of the 1960s."

Ms Owens, manager of community agency Maritime, accused the HMRI scheme of proposing "identical flats that the community has spent the last 20 years trying to get torn down."

And she criticised Sefton council for "failing" to listen to householders.

THREE of Liverpool's oldest communities face D-day at a crucial meeting to decide the fate of thousands of terraced homes.

Councillors will tour Anfield, Edge Hill and Waver-tree tomorrow, before the future of dozens of Victorian streets is decided.

The three separate schemes are all part of regeneration company New Heartlands' multi-million pound vision for Merseyside's housing.

If given the go-ahead, they will mean:

* The demolition of 1,800 homes around Anfield stadium, to be replaced with 1,300 homes, shops, offices and community facilities.

* The bulldozing of 640 properties to the south of Edge Lane, Edge Hill, where about 300 new homes and shops will be built.

* The replacement of 525 terraces off Smithdown Road and Earle Road, Wavertree, with up to 450 new two- and three-storey homes.

Housing experts say the three communities have come to the end of their useful lives and need to be replaced with modern homes to get the property market back on its feet.

Many residents are happy to leave with the promise of being helped into a new property in the near future.

But others are campaigning to stay and have the terraces refurbished to 21st-century standards instead.

Liverpool council's planning committee will have the final say.

Liberal councillor Steve Radford, who opposes demolition, said: "These plans will simply add to the city's housing problems by deliberately making areas derelict. Organ-isations like English Heritage have real concerns about the quality of new housing."

Councillors are also set to give the go-ahead to plans for more than 70 homes on the former site of St Thomas a Becket school, off Spekeland Road, Edge Hill.

I want to go NOW

KaREN Williams is ready to move out of her Anfield home as soon as she gets the green light.

She rents her two-bedroom terrace in Vienna Street from a housing association and is waiting for another one to become available in a different area before leaving.

Karen, who has a seven-year-old son, Joseph, said: "My house definitely needs work doing on it - the bathroom has got damp, for example.

"I am happy to go and not come back, but Iwould like ahouse with a garden this time.

"This is not a very pleasant area to live in now, because kids keep getting into empty houses and setting fires."

Leave our community alone

MAXINE Liu has lived off Smithdown Road for more than 30 years - and she has no intention of going anywhere yet.

Maxine, of Tunstall Street, Wavertree, is a member of Smithdown Against Demolition, a new group set up to fight demolition plans.

She said: "First and fore-most, it will break up the community. People around here are always there if you need them.

"We are told we can move back into the area where we were born and bred, but we are worried that we will not be able to afford it. New properties are often expensive, especially for first-time buyers. A lot of people would benefit more if properties were modernised."

The area immediately around Liverpool's ground needs bulldozing,the council have allowed it to rot away and I can't think of a worse advert for the city than this place,so many people from outside the city must think they're in a war zone when they see that.In fact my mates a taxi driver and one Norwegian lad made that exact comment it's not good enough.

I hope the Anfield ones are given the goahead for the sake of the residents.

LIVERPOOL is repeating the slum-clearance mistakes of the 1960s by agreeing to the massive demolition of thousands of terraced homes, a leading conservation campaigner warned yesterday. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=17240746%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=don%2dt%2dresurrect%2dthe%2dcity%2ds%2d slum%2dmistakes%2dof%2d1960s-name_page.html)

Derelict homes generate profits

Liverpool City Council has generated more than £500,000 in council tax by renovating nearly 500 derelict houses, it has said.

The initiative has been welcomed by local communities as it has helped cut vandalism and reduce the number of properties being used as drug dens.

Councillor Marilyn Fielding said: "This is an excellent initiative. "It can stop an area going downhill and brings houses back into use for families who desperately need them."

THEY are the oldest houses in North Liverpool and last night the race was on to save them from demolition. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/breakingnews/tm_objectid=17265669%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=race%2dis%2don%2dto%2dsave%2doldest%2dh ouses%2din%2dnorth%2dliverpool-name_page.html)

It's only Breck road anyway.:Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

Homes reprieved as mass demolition plans frozen
Jul 20 2006
By Larry Neild, Daily Post

LIVERPOOL'S plans to bulldoze 3,000 terraced houses as part of the biggest clearance programme for 40 years, lay in tatters last night, jubilant critics claimed.

They say a decision by Local Government Secretary of State Ruth Kelly to freeze plans for a massive regeneration programme, would spell the end of the strategy.

But council officials insisted that the plans for Anfield, Breckfield, Edge Hill and Picton areas of the city, have not been shelved.

They say the minister has called for more information about the plans before deciding whether there should be a public inquiry.

In the meanwhile, the minister has issued a formal notice to the council banning them from granting any planning approvals without authorisation from the Government.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=17416580%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=homes%2dreprieved%2das%2dmass%2ddemolit ion%2dplans%2dfrozen-name_page.html)...

Thank goodness for that!

They renovated Skerries Street, so why not these other neighbouring streets? They are in a great location and the bus links into and around the city are pretty good too, especially as the Sheil Road Circular runs past every ten or so minutes. Arkle Avenue also has a bus going to Fazackerley Hospital too.

Wholescare renovation is needed here. Yuppies and couples would love this area. I know that Anfield isn't exactly Allerton or Woolton, but it does have a charm about it and it is full of character. I suppose modern society want Bars and posh restuarants on thier doorstep, something that Anfield doesn't have but why should that detract young proffessionals from moving there?

Derelict homes generate profits

Liverpool City Council has generated more than £500,000 in council tax by renovating nearly 500 derelict houses, it has said.

The initiative has been welcomed by local communities as it has helped cut vandalism and reduce the number of properties being used as drug dens.

Councillor Marilyn Fielding said: "This is an excellent initiative. "It can stop an area going downhill and brings houses back into use for families who desperately need them."



Sorry for double posting (I know that I should Simply Edit but this is a serious point)

I thought that there was some sort of financial gain from row upon row of houses being left derelict. There must be some sort of scam going on here, could the council be getting paid to have houses derleic and then sell the land off? Most of these houses are in locations close to the city afterall. Look at Dorethy Street in Edge Hill. Close to Edge Lane, near to the City Centre and great amenities nearby with the shopping hubs of Kensington and Picton Road on hand. The bus links into the city are exellent with high frquencies going up Picton Road, and once again, the Sheil Road Circualar runs past the road end (almost!) too. It is a great location but most (if not all by now) of the houses are boarded up and probably awaiting removal.

So, if the council want to con us out of our homes, thats fine. But I hope they relise that they are destroying OUR City too. Boarded up terraces are not a nice sight. Renovatoion is the key to success in almost all cases. So C'mon Liverpool city Council. Un board these houses and get them done up! Salfords doing in in Langworthy, so why cant we do it all over the city and cater for all types of wealths and aspirations.

We are loosing out, developers and business moguls do not want to locate to a city where almost every street is boarded up. Leeds is doing well for itself, as is Birmingham. They don't have huge swaithes of derelict terraces, but they also don't demolish streets because they are "undesirable".

This is just anti government crap by the Torygraph. If you can't see through this crap you are naive.

Overall, Cabe often failed to apply the simple rule which it has since formulated about new buildings: that they be of better quality than those they replace. In consequence, many much-loved Victorian terraces all over the Midlands and the North are due to be demolished to make way for indifferent new housing.


Much loved by who? By those who want to maintain class levels. The poor must be in distinctly working class homes - full of damp and virtually nil insulation levels, casting millions into fuel poverty and add CO2 to the atmosphere. Even if you double glazing and insulation in the loft it make little impact as the solid walls of nil insulation value is the vast majority of the area of the house surfaces. Then the draught or just cold floors. Best run bulldozers through the lot of them. They missed the post WW2 housing clearance because money ran out.

That is just what the Torygraph want.

There are currently three million people in the UK living in 1.5 million homes officially classified as unfit, and this situation is unlikely to improve in the foreseeable future. 2.5 million homes suffer from severe damp, and the cost of remedying these conditions is estimated between 46 and 70 billion.

House conditions were found to contribute to "chronic chest disease", hypothermia and digestive conditions.

The above was some of the findings of a report commissioned by the Joseph
Rowntree Organisation.


The high crime rates endured by the residents of 1960s housing estates testify to the obvious truth that bad design blights lives. "Expertise" and "modernity", no matter how eye-catching on a drawing-board, are no substitute for good building.


This is now just castigating modern design – notice they don’t point to the many successes. These people are just plain stupid. They must think we are all very dim to believe what they spout.

LIVERPOOL is repeating the slum-clearance mistakes of the 1960s by agreeing to the massive demolition of thousands of terraced homes, a leading conservation campaigner warned yesterday.

The sooner the bulldozers move in the better. Those crocks are not worth conserving.

Homes reprieved as mass demolition plans frozen
Jul 20 2006
By Larry Neild, Daily Post

LIVERPOOL'S plans to bulldoze 3,000 terraced houses as part of the biggest clearance programme for 40 years, lay in tatters last night, jubilant critics claimed.

They say a decision by Local Government Secretary of State Ruth Kelly to freeze plans for a massive regeneration programme, would spell the end of the strategy.

But council officials insisted that the plans for Anfield, Breckfield, Edge Hill and Picton areas of the city, have not been shelved.

They say the minister has called for more information about the plans before deciding whether there should be a public inquiry.

In the meanwhile, the minister has issued a formal notice to the council banning them from granting any planning approvals without authorisation from the Government.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=17416580%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=homes%2dreprieved%2das%2dmass%2ddemolit ion%2dplans%2dfrozen-name_page.html)...

The bulldozers should move in.

The averaged sized new home in the UK is a paltry British 76 square metres, while in Germany with a similar population density new homes are 109 square metres, nearly half as much again in size. In Australia the average sized new home is 205.7 square metres, in the Netherlands 115 square metres and in Denmark 137 square metres. Danish rooms are twice as big as the hutches now on offer in the United Kingdom. In Japan, a country once notorious for small homes, the average sized new home is now 140 square metres.

The averaged size living room in the UK is a miniscule 13 foot by 15 foot; a room which has to function as TV room, children’s play room, entertainment room and relaxation room. If the averaged sized man stands in the middle of a typical British living room and stretched out an arm he will hit either a wall or ceiling.

The housing charity, Shelter, estimate 500,000 households are officially overcrowded.

The UK has the smallest, pokiest most expensive houses in the developed
world. The old housing stock has a high carbon footprint, despite the illness such cold and damp homes bring on. The only way is to demolish and build eco homes - some are being built near Brunswick Dock.

How does it effect the Edge Lane Scheme now? Will that stop too?

How does it effect the Edge Lane Scheme now? Will that stop too?
No, I don't think it affects the Edge Lane scheme though it does have implications for the rest of the Community Seven (http://www.community7.org.uk/) / Kensington Regeneration (http://www.kensingtonregeneration.com/) area.

No, I don't think it affects the Edge Lane scheme though it does have implications for the rest of the Community Seven (http://www.community7.org.uk/) / Kensington Regeneration (http://www.kensingtonregeneration.com/) area.

Keeping old inadeqaute expensive to heat houses is a total waste of time. None of these house are of architectural merit. There are no positive points about them.

Keeping old inadeqaute expensive to heat houses is a total waste of time. None of these house are of architectural merit. There are no positive points about them.
The point is that I own one of these inadequate Victorian terraces (which has stood for over 100 years and which would probably stand for another 100 years) and that if it gets demolished I won't. Neither will I own one of the new builds that you promote, as the pittance offered in compulsary purchase (due to the reduction in market value resulting from the regeneration activity) will not pay for a replacement and I am too old to get another mortgage. I will consequently have to move out of the area and probably pay out rent that I do not currently pay to live somewhere even less adequate. I will lose my home that I have paid for and some other wealthier person will move into the new build that replaces it. If it was a case of 'a-home-for-a-home' then I would have no argument with you. As it is, this is not my idea of regenerating a community but rather replacing it ('gentrification'). I personally do not think this is right and won't be going without a fight! :mad:

The point is that I own one of these inadequate Victorian terraces (which has stood for over 100 years and which would probably stand for another 100 years) and that if it gets demolished I won't. Neither will I own one of the new builds that you promote, as the pittance offered in compulsary purchase (due to the reduction in market value resulting from the regeneration activity) will not pay for a replacement and I am too old to get another mortgage. I will consequently have to move out of the area and probably pay out rent that I do not currently pay to live somewhere even less adequate. I will lose my home that I have paid for and some other wealthier person will move into the new build that replaces it. If it was a case of 'a-home-for-a-home' then I would have no argument with you. As it is, this is not my idea of regenerating a community but rather replacing it ('gentrification'). I personally do not think this is right and won't be going without a fight! :mad:

I hate seeing terraces boaded up and falling into decay. But what we need to ask is "What is wrong with these areas?". As previously said, they are in great locations (most of the time) and thats if you don't own a car too! These terraces are what make the city what it is and I think it is an absolute insult to both the city and it's forefarthers to say that they are past it and have no place in modern society. These terraces are well built, very presentable and normally brimming full of archutechtural merit.

Modern 'boxes' dont have anything going for them most of the time and if the situation in Gillmoss and Crokky Park is anything to go by, they are not built to last! Some of our worst crime hotspots are in Modern estates and developpments, need I remind us about Stockbridge Village back in the days when it was Cantrill Farm? (no offence Cannie farmers!).

I say keep the terraces. They look great (especially with a lick of red glaze!) and are suitable for those who are on the go all the time and only go home to eat, sleep and cleanse.

Thats all I have to say.

The point is that I own one of these inadequate Victorian terraces


You poor sod.

They are still crocks, and need demolishing for superior homes befitting the 21st century.

I hate seeing terraces boaded up and falling into decay.


I like seeing them opulled down. Appalling homes .


But what we need to ask is "What is wrong with these areas?". As previously said, they are in great locations (most of the time) and thats if you don't own a car too!


The locations are fine. It is just people don't like living in crap houses.


These terraces are what make the city


You are having a laugh.


what it is and I think it is an absolute insult to both the city and it's forefarthers to say that they are past it and have no place in modern society. These terraces are well built, very presentable and normally brimming full of archutechtural merit.


You are having a laugh. Architecture? Where? They were emergency 1800s homes as people flocked into the cities from the countryside. They look like barracks, as that was what they really were.


Modern 'boxes' dont have anything going for them most of the time


What a stupid comment.


and if the situation in Gillmoss and Crokky Park is anything to go by, they are not built to last!


I'll have snip the rest as it is too turgid. This attitude is typical of why Liverpool has stayed a crock of a 3rd rate city for 50 years. No ambition, no foresight, no nothing.

You poor sod.

They are still crocks, and need demolishing for superior homes befitting the 21st century.
That would be fine if I could afford one of them, but as a low-waged public sector employee... :rolleyes:

What is your location Waterways? Do you live in a terrace?

Live and let buy

Some MPs and local authorities are calling for controls on what they see as the damaging buy-to-let market. However, the mortgage industry has hit back hard to counter this stance.

The recent call by MPs for more controls on buy-to-let, claiming that it is ‘distorting’ the property market, forcing up prices and crowding out local buyers, caused something of a flutter in the mortgage and property market.

The all party Housing Select Committee’s report on 'Affordability and the Supply of Housing (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmodpm/703/703-i.pdf)' (420KB pdf), urges government to give local authorities more powers to limit the amount of buy-to-let properties in certain areas.

The report stated: ‘In some areas the housing market is distorted by significant levels of buy-to-let investments, which have driven up prices and not created stable communities. In these areas, the fact that housing offers a higher return on capital investment than equities has driven up prices artificially and is making home purchase unaffordable for local buyers, forcing them into rented accommodation.’

The Welsh Street Homes Group in Liverpool, one of many local authorities to give evidence to the Committee, warned that, ‘the increased borrowing power available to Southern, or Irish property owners has enabled the purchase of buy-to-let property in Northern cities. This has affected supply, and the cost of buying and renting accommodation in Liverpool.’

More (http://www.citywire.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?VersionID=83496&MenuKey=News.Home)...

What is your location Waterways? Do you live in a terrace?

Terrrace? Not if I can help it. They are a blight on the landscape.

Live and let buy

Some MPs and local authorities are calling for controls on what they see as the damaging buy-to-let market. However, the mortgage industry has hit back hard to counter this stance.

The recent call by MPs for more controls on buy-to-let, claiming that it is ‘distorting’ the property market, forcing up prices and crowding out local buyers, caused something of a flutter in the mortgage and property market.

The all party Housing Select Committee’s report on 'Affordability and the Supply of Housing (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmodpm/703/703-i.pdf)' (420KB pdf), urges government to give local authorities more powers to limit the amount of buy-to-let properties in certain areas.

The report stated: ‘In some areas the housing market is distorted by significant levels of buy-to-let investments, which have driven up prices and not created stable communities. In these areas, the fact that housing offers a higher return on capital investment than equities has driven up prices artificially and is making home purchase unaffordable for local buyers, forcing them into rented accommodation.’

The Welsh Street Homes Group in Liverpool, one of many local authorities to give evidence to the Committee, warned that, ‘the increased borrowing power available to Southern, or Irish property owners has enabled the purchase of buy-to-let property in Northern cities. This has affected supply, and the cost of buying and renting accommodation in Liverpool.’

More (http://www.citywire.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?VersionID=83496&MenuKey=News.Home)...

All they have to do is drop the Stalinist Planning system (it is based on quota, not market [demand] driven) and open up land to the free market to build on. Prices will drop and the housing problem will evaporate.

Read the article I posted on here: How Land Affects the Average Person. That covers most of it.

The government is constantly involved in housing - we have a perpetual housing problem. You never see them involved in washing machines do you? Housing is rigged and washing machines are open to the free market. ......and washing machines are cheap too.

Live and let buy

Some MPs and local authorities are calling for controls on what they see as the damaging buy-to-let market. However, the mortgage industry has hit back hard to counter this stance.

The recent call by MPs for more controls on buy-to-let, claiming that it is ‘distorting’ the property market, forcing up prices and crowding out local buyers, caused something of a flutter in the mortgage and property market.


This is total tripe. All they have to do is open land up to the free market and the situation will disappear. They allot a certain amount of land for building in each council area – the Local Plan - which is never enough. At times no land at all. It is rigged to keep land and house prices high, which cascades down to pokey overpriced rubbish that is being served up. The free market should dictate the land and house prices, not governments or councils. Rigging land availability is not the way. We are all being ripped off good style with the big construction companies and large land owners raking it in.

This is total tripe. All they have to do is open land up to the free market and the situation will disappear. They allot a certain amount of land for building in each council area – the Local Plan - which is never enough. At times no land at all. It is rigged to keep land and house prices high, which cascades down to pokey overpriced rubbish that is being served up. The free market should dictate the land and house prices, not governments or councils. Rigging land availability is not the way. We are all being ripped off good style with the big construction companies and large land owners raking it in.

If I have got the right end of the stick, this would be a very good idea for Town/City Centre sites that need to be developed. Birkenhead for example, has loads of bare patches around Conway Street that would be great for Commercial/High spec apartment developments!

If I have got the right end of the stick, this would be a very good idea for Town/City Centre sites that need to be developed. Birkenhead for example, has loads of bare patches around Conway Street that would be great for Commercial/High spec apartment developments!

Brownfield sites. Some should be built on, others should not and made into open areas for our cramped towns and cities to breath.

LIVERPOOL'S plans to bulldoze 3,000 terraced houses as part of the biggest residential clearance programme for 40 years are back on track after the Government gave the go-ahead to the scheme.

Local Government Secretary of State Ruth Kelly yesterday lifted orders which prevented planning permission for the massive regeneration programme from going ahead.

Earlier this year, Liverpool City Council granted outline planning permission for the three Housing Market Renewal Initiative (HMRI) schemes at Anfield and Breckfield, Picton and Edge Hill.

Under the so-called Pathways regeneration strategy, 3,000 homes will be demolished and replaced by new ones.

Mrs Kelly put the plans on hold in July while she sought more information from the council on design issues and affordability.

Now the council has been told that the Secretary of State has decided not to "call-in" the plans and the direction has been lifted.

The Government move comes as a public inquiry into compulsory purchase orders for around 1,000 homes in the four areas continues.

The council's Liberal Party leader, Cllr Steve Radford, who is opposing the clearance programme, said: "While I'm disappointed the go-ahead has been given, the fight is not over yet.

"We have been fighting this scheme tooth and nail at the current public inquiry, which is now in its summing-up stages.

"The freezing of the plans by the secretary of state shows the council's total lack of detail, even though they have already moved two-thirds of the population out. It's about social cleansing rather than community regeneration.

"Pathways is really a house-crusher project. We need to keep our affordable housing, not get rid of it at enormous expense."

The city council insist that a housing strategy is vital to create sustainable communities by providing the types of houses that people want to live in, rather than attempt to refurbish unpopular small and worn-out terraced homes.

Following Mrs Kelly's decision, Cllr Marilyn Fielding, executive member for neighbourhoods and housing, said: "We were always confident that the proper planning procedures had been followed and that we could satisfy the points which had been raised on design and affordability.

"HMRI is about providing decent, affordable homes in areas where the housing market has collapsed and these plans will do that."

alanweston@dailypost.co.uk

The point is that I own one of these inadequate Victorian terraces (which has stood for over 100 years and which would probably stand for another 100 years) and that if it gets demolished I won't. Neither will I own one of the new builds that you promote, as the pittance offered in compulsary purchase (due to the reduction in market value resulting from the regeneration activity) will not pay for a replacement and I am too old to get another mortgage. I will consequently have to move out of the area and probably pay out rent that I do not currently pay to live somewhere even less adequate. I will lose my home that I have paid for and some other wealthier person will move into the new build that replaces it. If it was a case of 'a-home-for-a-home' then I would have no argument with you. As it is, this is not my idea of regenerating a community but rather replacing it ('gentrification'). I personally do not think this is right and won't be going without a fight! :mad:

Well said Howie. We are like you, we live in a Victorian terrace built in 1878. It is a lovely big house and we have worked long and hard to renovate it. Our house is fab inside - even tho' I say it myself. we could never afford another house of this size - and like you we don't want to take on another mortgage now (we are in our 50s). My family have lived in this house since 1940s and all my family history has been here. Anfield was a good area in those days, it's such a shame to see it go down the nick.
The new build houses might look a bit pretty but they are like dolls houses - so small and pokey inside (unless you can afford to pay an absolute fortune for a biggish one).
We have 8 big rooms in our house - the bedrooms are all double. The so called 'master bedrooms' in these new builds would fit twice or three times into ours !
I love my house. It's just the deterioration of the area that is the let down.

You poor sod.

They are still crocks, and need demolishing for superior homes befitting the 21st century.

If you could see my house you wouldn't say that ! I will post some pics when I get around to it.
I am proud of what we have done here - and if this house was in another location it would be worth a fortune.

I feel sorry for those affected by these orders. for one, they are being messed around by Whitehall Beurocrats who just cannot secide wheather to save our city or resume the 60's clearence. I would have thought that Ms Kelly would undestand the need to keep these houses intact seeing as she is a North Western MP, Is she going to allow Horwich or Bolton to be pulled down because of the presence of terraces? I think not!

Why do I get the impression that these demolision plans are being put through blindfolded? I mean, do these people understand the consequences of pulling down one of Liverpool's famous suburbs?

I do agree that Anfield/Oakfield are looking a bit rundown. But roads such as St Domingo Vale can be renovated. Skerries Street was and look how great that now looks! it can be done, and if there was a big profit/backhander in the offerring, I bet those Whitehall folk would decide to renovate and conserve rather than pull down.

Just look at Liverpool from the Air and Ainscough's Liverpool. These two books will show you what the city has lost. So many good standard, quality buildings have been lost so that landscaping and prefab housing can be erected. They are pulling down such iconinc examples of Victorian housing so that sub-standard boxes ,with no charm, can be put up instead. We have seen what this does. It destroys communities and destroy's people's pride in thier city.

Watchdog's deal to check house plans
Aug 3 2006
By Alan Weston Daily Post Staff

THE GOVERNMENT'S watchdog on design and public space has withdrawn its objections to Liverpool's mass house clearance scheme in deprived areas.

In an unprecedented move, the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment (http://www.cabe.org.uk/) (CABE) had opposed the city council's compulsory purchase orders, which would allow them to bulldoze 3,000 terraced homes as part of its controversial Pathways regeneration strategy.

CABE said the council's application for the compulsory purchase orders did not contain enough detail to show that the areas where the demolitions were taking place - in Anfield and Breckfield, Picton and Edge Hill - would be improved by the new housing.

Now, however, the council has made an undertaking to CABE that it will not issue planning permission until a series of conditions are met. These are:

A working group to directly advise the planning committee to be established, consisting of CABE, English Heritage, the council, the developer and representatives from the community.
A detailed masterplan to be produced and submitted to the working group.
A design code to be prepared and submitted to the working group.

Selina Mason, CABE's director of design review, said: "It is the first time CABE has objected to a CPO but after detailed and careful consideration, we have been able to withdraw our objections, given that our concerns about design will be addressed.

"This is by no means an ideal process.

" It would have been better if the council had insisted on a masterplan in the first place.

"What we have now achieved is a mechanism to ensure design is considered before planning permission is granted.

"CABE advises on how to deliver good design and insists on quality, but we are still seeing mediocre housing that should not be considered acceptable for the people that are going to live there."

Earlier this week, Local Government Secretary Ruth Kelly also lifted orders which prevented planning permission for the massive regeneration scheme from going ahead.

Cllr Marilyn Fielding, executive member for Neighbourhoods and Housing, said: "Clearly we welcome CABE's decision to withdraw their objection. We recognise the concerns they have and we have been working hard with them to resolve the issues they raised, and we take on board their views on master planning. We would hope that in future we would work in partnership with CABE and other interested bodies to deliver schemes of this nature."

alanweston@dailypost.co.uk

Source: icLiverpool (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=17510870%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=watchdog%2ds%2ddeal%2dto%2dcheck%2dhous e%2dplans%2d-name_page.html)

The Buldozers move in to Cheers (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/breakingnews/tm_objectid=17547427%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=the%2dbulldozers%2dmove%2din%2dto%2dche ers-name_page.html)

Lake Street and neighbouring streets in Anfield are now in the process of being pulled down to make way for New Heartlands developments. These streets have allegedly been empty for years and will be wiped out in a few weeks.

Housing Experts have said that these houses are past there sell by and I can understand that especially if the terraces have been vacant for a long spell (no maintainace carried out ect) so it is likely that there is no going back. (although surveyers checks would be nice to have a look over if made public!)

But what is going to put up in their place? I have an extract here from "An Illustrated History of Liverpool's Suburbs" This is the closing statement on Anfield...

Today Anfield is a run down district, and is not an fashoinable or glamourous place to live and work. Unlike Everton, however, it has retained much of it's Victorian housing stock. Two and three story red brick townhouses with terrocotta details are the norm here, and the needless demolision of the 1960's has left little impact on the area. It is hoped that if Liverpool Football Club move to a new location on Stanley Park, then the move will trigger a large amount of rejuvination of the area. It is hoped that many of these elegent houses will be retained and renovated and that the character of this attractive Victorian area is not thoughtlessly destroyed.

I think that this statement is very true. The area isn't all that glamourous but was it ever intended to be? It is a good honest district that is now under threat from ugly boxes being built right in the heart of the place. I hope that the new buildings are symapthetic toward what was there previously and I hope that the number or buildings renovated and retained out weigh the amount that are to be pulled down. I don't mind seeing tired victorian terraces pulled down as long as the replacement buildings (especially in an area like Anfield) are built to mimik the previous occupiers. Modern won't go in an area like Anfield. Childwall or Norris Green possibly but Anfield or Walton or Tuebrook No.

Yes, I agree with all that Wallasey.

I do agree that some terraced streets that are beyond repair do need to be swept away - usually the tiny two up/two down type.
But it is quite true that an area like Anfield would not suit 'ticky-tacky boxes' :)
However, there are some being built up the top of Breck road, and some are 3storey - like the original houses that were there before.
I don't agree with the large Victorian terraces being demolished if they are still in reasonable condition. They are marvellous dwellings when renovated. Lots of space in these family houses. They look good too.

Shed no tears for the end of Coronation Street--- there's more to life.

Yesterday it was No Dogs, No Blacks, and No Irish.

Today it is....No Working-class

Yes, I agree with all that Wallasey.

I do agree that some terraced streets that are beyond repair do need to be swept away - usually the tiny two up/two down type.
But it is quite true that an area like Anfield would not suit 'ticky-tacky boxes' :)
However, there are some being built up the top of Breck road, and some are 3storey - like the original houses that were there before.
I don't agree with the large Victorian terraces being demolished if they are still in reasonable condition. They are marvellous dwellings when renovated. Lots of space in these family houses. They look good too.

Wil ltry and get over there once I have settled in and have aquired my Student pass!!! It's great to here that something of Victorian Ilk is being built instead of plain, hum-drum boxes that "depress" the area and only accelerate a down-spiral. As the writer of the book says, Anfield should aim to have it's terraces retianed and renovated. This could be a great location to be in with a good supply of shopping facilities and bus links into and around the city.

Anfield will never be the ultimate upper crust place to live in the city with boarded up terraces and "crumbling" homes. But i do think that by renovating the area to it's origanal glory is viable. Skerries Road has been renovated; and how great that looks now! The street has so much pride and is a shining example of what can be done in all areas of the city. Not just Anfield but Edge Lane, Welsh Streets and Garston ect.

If I have got the right end of the stick, this would be a very good idea for Town/City Centre sites that need to be developed. Birkenhead for example, has loads of bare patches around Conway Street that would be great for Commercial/High spec apartment developments!

In the whole scale of the UK, there just isn't enough brownfield sites to develop - that is propaganda pushed by large landowners. Birkenhead may have some but mainly in commercial areas.

To encourage high quality high rises, the infrastructure & amenities have to be there around, or guaranteed, to attract anyone.

Birkenhead and Wallasey are best to concentrate on developing the redundant docks between the towns. They have a brilliant opportunity to create a water based residential/leisure environment right up to 4 miles from the river. Filling in Bidston dock was a really daft thing to do.

Very True, the East and West floats have great potential to be home for both residential and leasure uses. The warehouse where the Historic Warships were are to be apartments (East Float) and the West Float is home to the LVRC (Liverpool Victoria Rowing Club ) to which many Birkonians and Wallaseians have joined. However, what mustn't be overlooked is that the docks in Birkenhead and Wallasey are also major sources of employment. There are business parks and industrial units being built and or modernised to suit small business'.

On the Bidston Dock; from what I have heard is that the dock was filled in so that a HGV parking facility could be built as part of the Twelve Quays but as you can see, nothing has happened. I also heard that the Penny Bridge outside of the Bidston Dock was to be taken out (as it crosses nothing now) and be moved to the Duke Street Bridge. This has also come to nothing. Maybe this was purely specualtion!

Very True, the East and West floats have great potential to be home for both residential and leasure uses. The warehouse where the Historic Warships were are to be apartments (East Float) and the West Float is home to the LVRC (Liverpool Victoria Rowing Club ) to which many Birkonians and Wallaseians have joined. However, what mustn't be overlooked is that the docks in Birkenhead and Wallasey are also major sources of employment. There are business parks and industrial units being built and or modernised to suit small business'.


A long term plan is needed. The small businesses can be moved to proper modern business parks. The same applies to Liverpool. They can then concentrate of getting the Floats built up. The floats are so large they could have solid causeways built out into the water, could be curved or whatever, to accommodate residential buildings, restaurants on the tip of them, etc. The potential is enormous. But two towns may never agree – a big problem

Birkenhead, Bebington, Wallasey, etc should be all one place. Titled, City of Wirral or whatever. Or better still incorporated into Liverpool. Collectively, they have even less of an idea than Liverpool. There are no buildings of any repute on the Wirral, with a boring bland riverside. Lok at the Liverpool side of the river. Day and night.


On the Bidston Dock; from what I have heard is that the dock was filled in so that a HGV parking facility could be built as part of the Twelve Quays but as you can see, nothing has happened. I also heard that the Penny Bridge outside of the Bidston Dock was to be taken out (as it crosses nothing now) and be moved to the Duke Street Bridge. This has also come to nothing. Maybe this was purely specualtion!

Typical. Another attractive location disappears. Everywhere else in the country they are expaning waterways as they find them attractive. In Liverpool and Birkenhead they fill them in Also Port Sunlight is now filled in too. The water based heritage of Merseyside slowly errodes.

Yesterday it was No Dogs, No Blacks, and No Irish.

Today it is....No Working-class

I don't know where you have got this from?
I have never made any comments about either Blacks or Irish, and think Liverpool would benefit from being more diverse.

The issue of terrorism has nothing to do with race but simply with evil people.

As for the working class I think that the tiny 2 up 2 downs are too small for anyone to live in and life for the working class of whom I AM A MEMBER should be improved.

Shed no tears for the end of Coronation Street--- there's more to life.


--- but not all terraced houses are like Coronation st.
What about the huge Victorian terraced houses like we have on Princes ave.
There are thankfully still many all around different parts of L'pool. Those like the ones on Edge lane, or roads off Prescot rd, Fairfield, Kensington, parts of Lodge lane, Arkles lane and the roads near to the stadium : Skerries, Wylva, Edith rd's, fine big family houses , also some of the roads off Picton rd have lovely big old houses - in good nick too, and most renovated to a high standard. There are too many to mention.
These houses are solid, lovely big rooms and many still retaining original decorative features. They would be worth a fortune down south.
New build houses would be out of character and look ridiculous in these type of areas. Imagine a row of little Barratts houses in Skerries rd :eek:

New houses can be nice - but in the right place, and as long as they are sympathetic to the surrounding environment.

for instance, look at the new housing estates they put in place of those that were demolished around L.8. or Everton district .. they have nowhere near the same character as the original housing. Everton Brow had rows and rows of fine big houses - fair enough they were in a bad condition ... but they could have been renovated. It would have been a fantastic and desirable area with fab views over the Mersey. There's nothing left of the original Everton.
L.8. had the heart ripped out of it and has never been the same since they threw up all those little boxes.
Thank God some of 'Parly' and Princes ave, Catherine st etc, survived.

Actually, a lot of the new build houses are not much bigger than the 'two up-two downs' .. it's just that they are a different lay-out and a more modern shape. I've been in new houses were you can't swing a cat ! :rolleyes:
Also I've seen new houses built SO close they might as well be terraced !!

Not that I've got anything against new ones .. some of them are gorgeous and in lovely locations ... I'm just saying that terraced doesn't always mean bad. :)

Actually I do agree.
It's just that the very small terraces such as the ones in Walton where I grew up are too small you can walk in off the street, virtually stretch your arms and have the width of the front, and the backs are ugly and rat infested.

I agree that the large terraces are lovely and full of character.

Everton is a good example of an area that had its heart ripped out leaving a featureless nondescript area with a small population.

Tinsley Street - 14th August 2006

http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/north/anfield/roads/btins1408061.jpg

Lake Street - 14th August 2006

http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/north/anfield/roads/blake1408061.jpg

Lothair Road - 14th August 2006

http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/north/anfield/roads/bloth1408061.jpg

Rockfield Road - 14th August 2006

http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk/north/anfield/roads/brock1408061.jpg

Those like the ones on Edge lane, or roads off Prescot rd, Fairfield, Kensington, parts of Lodge lane, Arkles lane and the roads near to the stadium : Skerries, Wylva, Edith rd's, fine big family houses , also some of the roads off Picton rd have lovely big old houses - in good nick too, and most renovated to a high standard. There are too many to mention.
These houses are solid, lovely big rooms and many still retaining original decorative features. They would be worth a fortune down south.
New build houses would be out of character and look ridiculous in these type of areas. Imagine a row of little Barratts houses in Skerries rd :eek:

New houses can be nice - but in the right place, and as long as they are sympathetic to the surrounding environment.


I agree. Nice large houses in many cases. TERRIBLE neighbourhoods. The problem in my opinion is not the houses, but the government. Why does the City Council, police, etc. allow such bad neighbourhoods to continue to be so terrible? Why don't they patrol and clean them up? Start arresting thieves, trespassers, arsonists, yobs, gangs and drug dealers? These are the real questions. Don't they realise that when they tear down the houses in bad neighbourhoods, the bad elements will remain in Liverpool (They will just move on to cause trouble to houses still left standing and the families that occupy these houses?) So the City Council's so-called 'Social Cleansing' will not solve the underlying problems - it will just move the problems on to a new neighbourhood (Perhaps even yours and mine)...

I agree, they do appear to be using demolition as a means of addressing anti-social behaviour. It doesn't make sense. :sad:

I agree, they do appear to be using demolition as a means of addressing anti-social behaviour. It doesn't make sense. :sad:

I was 'verbally abused' by the street arabs when taking the above pictures.

:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

I agree, they do appear to be using demolition as a means of addressing anti-social behaviour. It doesn't make sense. :sad:

The houses aren't the problem! They are what make the neighbourhood what it is! Ok, the locals do have some sort of influance on how the area turns out but there is no need to take it out on the houses!

I do agree that the backs of these houses can be very grotty. Especially if your home backs onto one of the shop blocks that are totally or partially derelict. If you go to the Dorothy Street/Wavertree Road area, you will see what I mean.

I cannot congratulate you enough for capturing these homes before they are pulled down; I will be making it a priority to get over there next week once I have settled in and moved. That's if the street hasn't been cordoned off!

Well Done

Russ

I was 'verbally abused' by the street arabs when taking the above pictures.

:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

Demolition is too good for them.

Seems a big amount of Anfield/Everton house are abandoned like in Dave's pics.

Actually I do agree.
It's just that the very small terraces such as the ones in Walton where I grew up are too small you can walk in off the street, virtually stretch your arms and have the width of the front, and the backs are ugly and rat infested.

I agree that the large terraces are lovely and full of character.

Everton is a good example of an area that had its heart ripped out leaving a featureless nondescript area with a small population.


Yes, those tiny two up- two downs are far too small. My dad was born and raised in one off Goodison rd. Many of them though, are renovated, and the people have them like little palaces. But I would'nt like a house that small.

Many of the new builds are equally as small as I already said. Some of them are walk in off the street too. The ones that do have a small entrance hall are narrow enough that your shoulders almost touch the walls!

I wouldn't mind a new build if I could afford one of the big detached ones !! :D

Demolition is too good for them.

:rolleyes:

Yes, those tiny two up- two downs are far too small. My dad was born and raised in one off Goodison rd. Many of them though, are renovated, and the people have them like little palaces. But I would'nt like a house that small.

Many of the new builds are equally as small as I already said. Some of them are walk in off the street too. The ones that do have a small entrance hall are narrow enough that your shoulders almost touch the walls!

I wouldn't mind a new build if I could afford one of the big detached ones !! :D

We a family of 5 lived in a 2 up 2 down, outside toilet and all that lark... Today I own my own home, a 3 up 2 down terraced house...with an inside toilet... built in the 60's ..

Progress eh? :)

I agree. Nice large houses in many cases. TERRIBLE neighbourhoods. The problem in my opinion is not the houses, but the government. Why does the City Council, police, etc. allow such bad neighbourhoods to continue to be so terrible? Why don't they patrol and clean them up? Start arresting thieves, trespassers, arsonists, yobs, gangs and drug dealers? These are the real questions. Don't they realise that when they tear down the houses in bad neighbourhoods, the bad elements will remain in Liverpool (They will just move on to cause trouble to houses still left standing and the families that occupy these houses?) So the City Council's so-called 'Social Cleansing' will not solve the underlying problems - it will just move the problems on to a new neighbourhood (Perhaps even yours and mine)...

Yes, it's already happened in mine - Anfield. They moved problem families here and the area detiorated. When I was growing up here it was a good area .. and it was certainly a good area in my grandparent's times. The big houses had proffessionals like solicitors, doctors, etc, living in them. The area started detiorating after 1980's.
It's sad to see it like this now. Mind you, there are still some nice parts here and there still surviving the anti-social onslaught.

I don't know where you have got this from?
I have never made any comments about either Blacks or Irish, and think Liverpool would benefit from being more diverse.

The issue of terrorism has nothing to do with race but simply with evil people.

As for the working class I think that the tiny 2 up 2 downs are too small for anyone to live in and life for the working class of whom I AM A MEMBER should be improved.


So why are you bringing up TERRORISM.... and why are you ****ging the working class wholive in terraced houses, when you are proud to be a member, of the "Chav" classes ?...........

Housing should be improved for the working classes...social cleansing is not the solution though is it?

We a family of 5 lived in a 2 up 2 down, outside toilet and all that lark... Today I own my own home, a 3 up 2 down terraced house...with an inside toilet... built in the 60's ..

Progress eh? :)

yes, it's amazing how big families lived in the tiny 2 bedroom terraces
- families with 6 or even 10 kids ! No inside toilet and a tin bath !! :D
My dad's neighbours had 8 daughters and on Friday nights the whole family would use the same tin bath full of water !! Ha ! (ugh! ... but that's how it was in those days !) They couldn't afford to heat up refills for the bath for all of them.

Once a month we used to go to the washhouse.. remember them... you'd all share the bath.. then yer mam would throw in the washing... and we'd all struggle home with half a ton of wet washing in a borrowed pram :D

:D :D

"Social Cleansing" Thats an awful phrase! I would hate to be a victim of such a cheap and nasty phrase!

Shame on Liverpool City Council!

First cinema in city to be demolished
Sep 13 2006
By Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/sep2006/7/6/A76F293D-CACA-9880-CEA23A9E9702B417.jpg

THE first purpose-built cinema in Liverpool is to be bulldozed and replaced with flats.

Councillors gave the go-ahead for the demolition of the one-time Bedford Hall picture house, in Walton, despite last-ditch pleas to save it.

The cinema opened on Boxing Day, 1908, about two years before aboom in the movie industry led to a string of public theatres opening across the country.

Cinema historians claim the picture house, in Bedford Road, is of national importance because it predates that building rush.

But Liverpool city council's planning committee was told appeals to have it listed and saved for future generations have fallen on deaf ears.

More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=17737941%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=first%2dcinema%2din%2dcity%2dto%2dbe%2d demolished-name_page.html)...

They'd better not turn it into a poncey wine bar.

How about a new art gallery?

PLANS to continue demolishing and rebuilding thousands of Merseyside homes over the next five years took a big step forward today.

Housing experts were lodging a bid with the government for millions of pounds, with the message "let us finish what we've started".

But for the New Heartlands programme to continue as planned, officials need a guarantee that they have government support for the foreseeable future.

The scheme was the brainchild of deputy prime minister John Prescott, but responsibility has now passed to communities minister Ruth Kelly.

Pauline Davis, managing director of New Heartlands, said: "The government launched this as a 15-year programme and got right behind it.

"We've worked so hard to get our plans into place and speak to residents on the ground.

"They're now ready to see action. We want to go faster, but we're bound by the money we've got.

"This bid is about bringing it home to the government that we're part-way through a journey and we need to know they're still behind us."

New Heartlands has teamed up with eight other schemes to ask the treasury to fund their work. If ministers give money to Mrs Kelly's department, they will then battle for ashare of the cash to continue their individual projects from 2008-11.

New Heartlands will use its money to continue its present work in Liverpool, Sefton and Wirral communities, rather than spread out to new areas.

Its plans are furthest advanced in Birkenhead, where the Ten Streets area is now flattened, and Bootle, where new housing developments are being built.

In Liverpool, work has been held up in some areas by residents determined not to move. Public inquiries have been held for the Anfield, Wavertree and Edge Hill schemes.

Rising house prices are used by some residents as evidence that demolition is not needed, and it has become increasingly expensive for New Heartlands to buy up properties. Source (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=17802355%26method=full%26siteid=50061% 26headline=let%2dus%2dfinish%2dwhat%2dwe%2dstarted-name_page.html)....

What do YOU think?

Went all over the place yesterday; eventually, I ended up here...

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2246/20060923mghlomkwgnlpool024np0.jpg

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7370/20060923mghlomkwgnlpool026qd6.jpg

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3159/20060923mghlomkwgnlpool028ts1.jpg

The ill-fated old picture house in Walton. To be honest, I cannot think of any other use for this building apart from commercial (like now) But, this is unique to Walton and so dies have some right to be saved???? I wouldn't mind seeing the plans for the new building though. Hopefully it will fit in!

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9721/20060923mghlomkwgnlpool029oc2.jpg

I know this isn't anything to do with demolision but it's a nice shot and shows what the new building on Bedford Road needs to fit in with (if you get me drift!)

After Walton, Anfield (after the game) was my next stop. To be honest, I had never been around here during or after a match and so it was strange to see streams of red pouring down Belmont Road and Arkles Lane!

Anyway, I thought it was time to pay homage to Lake Street...

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/826/20060923mghlomkwgnlpool046uq9.jpg
This image says it all really. To be honest, by looking at this image, you can see that the houses needed to be pulled down and I hope that something like a plaza will be installed here as part of the regeneration of the area.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5981/20060923mghlomkwgnlpool047br9.jpg
The other side of Lake Street is still standing (just)

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4594/20060923mghlomkwgnlpool048zv9.jpg
The site of the terraces on Lake Street. The pavement was only two paving slabs wide (length ways) which must have been fun when two people had to pass eachother!

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/504/20060923mghlomkwgnlpool056yo2.jpg
This is the saddening part when terraces are pulled down. The detailing here will never be seen again; it is highly likely that the new buildings (if that is going to be put here) won't have the "identity" that these terraces have. The Victorians/Edwardians didn't need to put detailing on these houses but they did. Doesn't that show how standards had gone down over the years?

Bloody hell! Half of Lake Street gone. T'anks for the pictures Wallasey, squire.

A 59-year-old woman has won a legal challenge to a major urban regeneration programme involving the demolition of hundreds of houses.

Mr Justice Forbes has overturned a compulsory purchase order which would have forced Elizabeth Pascoe to move from her Liverpool home.

The demolition is part of the government's Pathfinder initiative.

The judge also ruled that Mrs Pascoe's right to private and family life had been violated by the order.

Mrs Pascoe's solicitor, Phil Shiner, said the judge had overturned the CPO and declared that English Partnerships, the acquiring authority, had acted outside its powers.

She challenged the CPO granted to English Partnerships to buy and bulldoze 500 homes at Edge Lane West in Liverpool for a new road scheme into the city centre and new housing.

It was the first in a series of CPOs planned by the Urban Regeneration Agency for deprived inner city areas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/5384472.stm

So where does this leave the whole regeneration of the Edge Lane area? Will they simply renovate them back to their former glory? Will the regeneration never happen leaving Edge Lane into a further nose dive?

She's put a fly in the ointment eh?

The entire project is up in the air now.

She's put a fly in the ointment eh?

The entire project is up in the air now.

Thousands of people stand to loose out on a hell of lot now. I hope theres a solution to this.

So where does this leave the whole regeneration of the Edge Lane area? Will they simply renovate them back to their former glory? Will the regeneration never happen leaving Edge Lane into a further nose dive?

Tony Blair yesterday said that new homes are to be 40% more energy efficient and that by 2050 emissions will be 60% less in the UK. The UK has the oldest housing stock in Europe - click on the link in the sig below and go to the Land Article on why this situation exists. These old homes are not energy efficient at all and consume a lot of energy to heat.

If we are to renovate old house they will not meet the current, and new, energy levels. It is cheaper and quicker to demolish and start again. In most cases in home renovation that is the case.

In future, as energy costs rise, people in these homes will be spiralled into fuel poverty. Nostalgia can be a nice thing, however reality has to set in sometimes.

The burden of nostalgia is a heavy weight.

I see Ringo doesn't live in one of these houses anymore. I wonder why.

that sounds contridictory .. if the case is create more fuel efficent buildings..then every pre-1970 building should be demolished.

The Edge Lane demolitions/regeneration were more to do with creating a gateway into the city centre than creating new homes for the existing community.

In future, as energy costs rise, people in these homes will be spiralled into fuel poverty. Nostalgia can be a nice thing, however reality has to set in sometimes.

The burden of nostalgia is a heavy weight.


I agree. Let's fill in the disused docks and put wind turbines on them:unibrow:

Have just heard the news. Liz Pascoe, resident of Kensington, and an Environmental Science graduate of the School of Biological & Earth Sciences at Liverpool John Moores University has won! Good on yer girl! :celb (23):

Her case has just been featured on BBC News 24...and Elizabeth stated her case. Good stuff aye :)

Woman wins home demolition battle
Sep 27 2006

A grandmother has claimed a "bittersweet" victory in a High Court battle to save her Victorian terraced house from demolition under an urban regeneration scheme affecting hundreds of homes.

Human rights lawyers said the ruling won by Elizabeth Pascoe, 60, was a test case which would help other people across the country who face losing their homes under the Government's controversial Pathfinder initiative.

A Government spokesman disputed the claim, saying the case had nothing to do with the Pathfinder scheme, designed to regenerate inner city areas in the Midlands and the North of England, even though the judge hearing the case said that it did.

Ms Pascoe, of Adderley Street, Liverpool, challenged a compulsory purchase order (CPO) which sanctioned the acquisition and demolition of 500 homes in Liverpool's Edge Lane West area to make way for a new road into the city centre and new housing.

Mr Justice Forbes, sitting at the High Court in London, ruled that the order was flawed.

The judge said the legal challenge marked the first time the Urban Regeneration Agency, operating under the name "English Partnerships", had used its new statutory powers to acquire properties in a Pathfinder area.

He also ruled the CPO was an unjustified interference with Ms Pascoe's right to private and family life under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights since it deprived her of her home.

Ms Pascoe later said of her victory: "This is a pyrrhic victory for me. It is bittersweet because much of my community has already been destroyed as a result of the initiative."

She added: "I am very pleased but nervous about the longer term effects. They could just leave us to rot."

A spokesman for the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) strongly insisted to the press and media that the Edge Lane CPO was for a road widening and regeneration scheme that was not part of the Pathfinder programmes.

Source: icLiverpool (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0300nationalnews/tm_objectid=17830939&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=woman-wins-home-demolition-battle-name_page.html)

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~howardpaterson/uploads/EdgeLane.jpg

'This is a pyrrhic victory for me. It is bittersweet because much of my community has already been destroyed as a result of this initiative.' -- Elizabeth Pascoe

Pathfinder is a New Labour/John Prescott pet project. In Liverpool and across the north of England, tens of thousands of homes are being destroyed in the name of urban regeneration.

In Liverpool, swathes of Victorian housing is being destroyed. It would cost far less to renovate the existing housing, than new build, and would provide better quality housing, but what it would not provide is development opportunities for developers. And that is what Pathfinder is all about, development opportunities for developers and helping housing associations to rapidly expand.

In Liverpool, home owners are being offered paltry sums for their homes. If they refuse, they are served Compulsory Purchase Orders and their homes seized. If they play ball, they are offered a housing association home as they are no longer in a position to get back on the property ladder. Private tenants are being dumped on sink estates, if they refuse what they are offered, they are deemed homeless.

Local Labour MP Jane Kennedy described the plan as "social cleansing" at the public inquiry that approved the plans.

Elisabeth Pascoe has today won a victory in the High Court in London. She challenged the Compulsory Purchase of her home, claiming that it violated her Human Rights. The Judge found in her favour. Elisabeth Pascoe has described her victory as 'bitter sweet' as many of her neighbours have already been forced out of their homes.

Community activists have voiced concern at the involvement of criminal families. A nod and a wink, at best a blind eye, is turned to their activities. Criminal families are moved in to soften up the community, their relatives sit on the boards of pro-Pathfinder agencies. No structures are in place to address these issues.

In being prepared to not only speak out, but mount a legal challenge, Elisabeth Pascoe has shown herself to be a very brave lady. Her house has been broken into in the early hours of the morning, for her to be held at knife point, her car has been repeatedly trashed, a video of her car being trashed by local criminals was conveniently 'lost' by the local police (the local police receive funding from pro-Pathfinder agencies). Stress forced Elisabeth Pascoe to give up her Doctoral studies.

Local campaigner and documentary filmmaker Mike Lane who has fought hard against Pathfinder and the corrupt local council has received death threats, had his car fire-bombed and been forced to move house for fear of his life.

More (http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/liverpool/2006/09/351960.html)...

She was on TV this morning - still unsure how I feel about this victory. Whilst all her neighbours have moved, do builders now build around her house and leave it intact?

It seems such a small part of Edge Lane.

She was on TV this morning - still unsure how I feel about this victory. Whilst all her neighbours have moved, do builders now build around her house and leave it intact?

It seems such a small part of Edge Lane.

Lets not forget that this decision only effects western Edge Lane, so the rest of the project is still continuing as normal. I am completely for this project and believe that this decision has pointlesly delayed things. Some people have said that the houses should be refurbished and sold on, this is never going to happen! The fact is, these houses would cost too much to repair and even if they where repaired, no-one would want to live in them because they are situated on a severely congested section of edge lane that bottlenecks from a dual carriageway to a single carriageway. This congestion is getting worse and by 2008 it will be at a virtual stand still. The houses need to go so the road can be widened to stop the congestion, but this isn't just a scheme to widen a road, the road and the whole surrounding area will be completely transformed. If it was just a road widening scheme, then why have they bothered with the rest of edge lane which is not going to be widened.
People need to move on and accept that this is what this area needs and if it doesn't go ahead, it will remain in this condition for many more years! I am truly ashamed at the fact that hundreds of visitors drive past this slum every day, what does this say about our city not just to visitors, but to the people of Liverpool? People are complaining that there isn't enough investment outside of the city centre and as soon as a project outside the city centre is announced, like this one, it is criticised!! Most people are for this project, it's just a shame that a selfish, narrow minded few have to spoil it for everyone else! I am beginning to lose faith in this city and its people.:disgust:

If the developers hadn't treated the community with complete and utter contempt then this probably wouldn't have happened. :disgust:

If the developers hadn't treated the community with complete and utter contempt then this probably wouldn't have happened. :disgust:

They actually treated the 'community' very well and fully consulted them on the plans. It's just that some of them didn't want to know and where unwilling to listen from the very beginning without even looking at the plans. The word 'community' is used too much on this issue. Firstly there hasn't been a community around there for about 2 decades. Ever since I was born, the area has been derelict with the population falling rapidly over the years with no influence from any organisations, secondly, if there was a real community there, alot more people would have refused to leave and would have stayed to save their community. The fact is most people who lived there where waiting for their chance to leave, this project gave them that opportunity. Finally, it is the people who make a community not the area and if this minority of people who won't leave had agreed to the plans from the beggining, the entire 'community' could have been moved around the same time and then moved back in the area after it was complete. They are responsibe for breaking up what was left of the community, not LLDC or their partners.

Sorry, I have attended many of the meetings over the last 5 years regarding the regeneration in the Kensington area. The lack of proper consultation and provision of information has been appalling. 5 years down the line we still haven't got a clue about what is happening with the rest of the Holt Rd/Cameron St area. And how on earth is anybody supposed to move back into an area if the new property is going to cost £50,000 or £60,000 more than they were given for their old property. Some of the initial offers where derisory e.g £38,000 for a property independently valued at £59,000 etc, etc. You don't even get enough to buy an equivalent property elsewhere. Anybody over 50 who can't get another mortgage is back to renting or homeless. And I won't even mention some of the intimidation of residents that has taken place. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Howie
A Kensington homeowner

Sorry, I have attended many of the meetings over the last 5 years regarding the regeneration in the Kensington area. The lack of proper consultation and provision of information has been appalling. 5 years down the line we still haven't got a clue about what is happening with the rest of the Holt Rd/Cameron St area. And how on earth is anybody supposed to move back into an area if the new property is going to cost £50,000 or £60,000 more than they were given for their old property. Some of the initial offers where derisory e.g £38,000 for a property independently valued at £59,000 etc, etc. You don't even get enough to buy an equivalent property elsewhere. Anybody over 50 who can't get another mortgage is back to renting or homeless. And I won't even mention some of the intimidation of residents that has taken place. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Howie
A Kensington homeowner

The Holt road scheme etc is not part of the edge lane project. This is something that has been falsely portraid in the news over the past couple of days. The edge lane project and the pathfinder initiative are completely seperate schemes that have nothing to do with eachother and are ran by completely different organisations. Edge Lane project is by LLDC and English Partnerships, Pathfinder is Govt lead. Putting all this aside, do you think that the EDGE LANE PROJECT should go ahead? (Not including Pathfinder)
I do understand peoples concerns, but surely you and others can see the long term benefits of this project for the area and Liverpool as a whole. Finally, alot of the houses are only worth 65,000 because of the state of the area and the formentioned congested road. As I understand it, LLDC offered the homeowners the money plus the option of a new house in the new development for nothing, or a significantly reduced price because they already live there.

P.S I have family who live just off edge lane who can't wait for this project to go ahead.

do you think that the EDGE LANE PROJECT should go ahead? (Not including Pathfinder)

I have commented on this previously on the Edge Lane Development thread here (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=908) and earlier on this thread:
I don't think many people have an argument with the demolition of properties on Edge Lane itself necessary for the road widening. It is the demolition of a further band of properties so as to create a row of apartments along each side of the new widened Edge Lane so as 'to provide a more attractive gateway to the city for visitors to the European Capital of
Culture 2008' that is controversial. These will be neither affordable or appropriate to the existing residents of the area. :sad:

Ironically Edge Lane is not getting significantly widened and with the collapse of the Hall Lane bypass scheme I doubt it is going to do a great deal to alleviate congestion.

The essential point though is the treatment of the residents of the area. None of this regeneration has been about improving the area for the existing residents, but rather about displacing them and replacing them with a new community, ('social-cleansing' I think it has been referred to as). Pressures have been exerted on both tenants and homeowners to leave the area, probably never to return.

You are also incorrect in the assertion that homeowners were offered a new house for nothing. There has never been a 'home-for-a-home' scheme on offer. To my knowledge the best offer made was a loan of up to £25K to help bridge the gap between the cost of an existing property and it's replacement to be paid back either when the occupant left the new property or died. So that, for example, if you received £75,000 for your house and spent £100,000 on the replacement you would 3/4 own it and when you moved on and sold it for £200,000 you would repay a debt of £50,000. The only 'home-for-a-home' scheme I know of in this city was in Granby. I wouldn't actually expect this. I do think, however, that it is not unreasonable that people should expect to be paid the price of an equivalent property elsewhere because it is the regeneration activities themselves that have artificially brought down the 'market value' of the properties of the area (and there are people who say this has been deliberately engineered to keep down the price of the compulsary purchase).

Most people are for this project, it's just a shame that a selfish, narrow minded few have to spoil it for everyone else! I am beginning to lose faith in this city and its people.:disgust:
I just wonder how you would feel if somebody suggested disrupting your life by demolishing your home at great financial cost to yourself - even if it could be portrayed as being for the greater good.

PS. I know Liz Pascoe personally. She is a brave woman who despite being crippled with arthritis recently gained an honours degree and went on to commence PhD research which she had to abandon due to the stress of the situation she found herself in. She has also always stood up to the yobs who have moved into the area (often placing herself at personal risk). I wish her well and hope that the future holds something better for her, though that will be dependent upon what LLDC decide to do with the surrounding properties that have already been vacated and boarded-up.

She has also always stood up to the yobs who have moved into the area

Little coward yobs!

PS. I know Liz Pascoe personally. She is a brave woman who despite being crippled with arthritis recently gained an honours degree and went on to commence PhD research which she had to abandon due to the stress of the situation she found herself in. She has also always stood up to the yobs who have moved into the area (often placing herself at personal risk). I wish her well and hope that the future holds something better for her, though that will be dependent upon what LLDC decide to do with the surrounding properties that have already been vacated and boarded-up.

She sounds like a marvellous woman Howie.

The whole issue of regeneration is about social engineering or class clensing,


That is a novel idea. I thought it was about getting the infrastructure, standard of accomodation and economy up to date. Silly me.


I've been through it and know fully well what it's about. Remember the Jewish ghettoes in the 1940's the Jews (the target social group) were impoverished forced into rundown parts of cities, isolated and the downward cycle of deprevation continued, it was planned, then those ghettoes were cleared out, the people sent away to concentration or work camps, these neighbourhoods were then flattened or in the case of Warsaw (after the Ghetto uprising) bombed by the luftwaffe and attacked by tanks.


Is Tony Blair going to do that in Liverpool 8 because it need regenerating?


Up in North East the 'Going for Growth' project proposed by the council in 2000/2001 had plans to demolish housing that had only been built 5/7 years earlier, it's simple capitalism destory and rebuild, like in Afghanistan, Yugoslavia and Iraq, you destroy buildings and then rebuild them you create profit for corporations.


The UK has the oldest, pokiest, least energy efficient hosing stock in the western world. There are better ways to create a large construction industry.


Here in Liverpool it's division, individualism and selling your community out for your 12 pieces of silver. We don't hear about the victory of a community group or the collective fight back, we hear of individuals, the named homeowners usually middle class (Liz Pascoe - Edge Lane, Nina Edge - Welsh Streets) etc. The working class tenant activists don't get the headlines, don't get the support or respect, don't get our letters published in the Echo, what we get is contempt, police harassment, threats and abuse, in short the iron heel upon our face.


I agree in demolishing all those old energy inefficient houses.


For me it's never been about bricks and mortar, it's been about community and people, which is about a shared belonging, it's about respect and acceptance by your neighbours, it's where you do look out for one another which is an alien concept to the middle class.


I would disagree with that.


I was part of community fightback which saved 60 houses on the Pinehurst estate back in 1998, we also saved hundreds of houses from demolition in Norris Green, similar to Boot houses on the estate action area, they upgraded and the council (despite wanting them flattened) received an award for their improvements.


Disgusting. Those people could have been living in proper houses and not pay a fortune in gas for heating.


Given the choice between a poor house in a community I know, where people still look out for one another and one with all the modern conveniences in a strange neighbourhood I know what I prefer,


He thinks that new communities are soulless and the people uncaring, and only old houses in working class communities make caring people. How strange.


I've actually had the choice. A nice council house in a working class village (ooh the country, the middle class idyll) and our former Boot house in Norris Green I know which I preferred.


In the 1920-30s Norris Green was regarded as a soulless out of town estate. Now it is Dodge City.


We weren't given a choice tolerate the 'stooge' (protected by council and police) anti-social tenant, drug dealer threatening our family, wearing us down with constant rows and noise or move out. We lost our friends, neighbours and everything we knew. When we moved back 18months later the estate was already starting to be demolished, we even saw our family home demolished.


Many of those damp, pokey, energy inefficient homes should have gone years ago.


I've kept in touch with a lot other working class tenant activists across Merseyside and beyond. In short it's a class war...


It is? Putting people in superior accommodation is a class war?


What about the High Rise Tower blocks? The forgotten battle for tenants to get their homes upgraded, who were lied to, misled (Moderate Labour council in 1992) and ultimately forced out of them and dispersed.


The high rises were too expensive to maintain. Well many of them were. They were not suited to the class of people who they put in them.


It's never been about the condition of the housing, that's a complete ruse, it's about the class (or socio-economics) who live in them.

Do you mean the government has an agenda to move working class people from one working class area to another and each time give them superior cheaper to run homes as well? I never. How disgusting!

If you don't like all this improving of the quality of life of working class people, then go and buy your own house in war zone.

It's never been about the condition of the housing, that's a complete ruse, it's about the class (or socio-economics) who live in them.I don't think it's a conspiracy theory or some new wave of social cleansing. It's only logical that working class housing will often be older and of a poorer quality than other housing. Not sure how Jews in Poland fit in with this - I mean, it's not like our local authorities are shepherding Liverpool residents into death camps is it? Yes, there are issues on house valuations and offers, etc, but I think your comparisons there were a bit extreme.

You named two middle-aged home-owners fighting to keep their homes - surely if the council/government were only attacking working class homes, this would never have been an issue in the first place?

I don't think it's a conspiracy theory or some new wave of social cleansing. It's only logical that working class housing will often be older and of a poorer quality than other housing. Not sure how Jews in Poland fit in with this - I mean, it's no