Capital of Culture Opening 300m eyes on Liverpool

[Kev]

A GLOBAL audience of between 200m and 300m is expected to tune in to watch Liverpool’s £2m opening weekend to the start of European Capital of Culture celebrations. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/01/11/300-million-set-to-tune-into-liverpool-s-08-launch-64375-20337992/)

[Ged]

After the pre-show build up, the actual ceromony as such will only last 40 mins or so at the plateau but there's the Liverpool musical at the arena at the weekend - The greatest story ever told.

The idea being that both the oldest peoples meeting place (the plataeu) and the newest (the arena) will feature.

[disco]

Is any of today's event going to be shown live on British TV ?

[lindylou]

I think Granada will be showing something. I heard them mention it on Granada Reports - doubt if it will be live tho'

[Kolchak]

Does anyone know if its shown on any of the terrestial or Sat channels?

If not, is there a live feed I could get on the 'net?

[Ged]

There were a flood of calls to the Roger Phillips phone-in yesterday bemoaning that we'd missed the boat with this not going out live, something about artists rights etc.

However, Phil Redmond came on and gave a very detailed and satisfactory explaination as to why, by and large this wasn't happening though CBS are doing it, to do with the logistics and companies preferring an edited version with all the highlights and none of the waiting around bits. Apparently over 200 companies have applied for rights to screen parts of it which he said is for more than the likes of the world known F.A. Cup final.

[disco]

So hopefully we will get to see 5 minutes of it on Granada reports and Northwest tonight ? Silly me it doesn't start till 8 o'clock so we will have to Wait till Monday

[SteH]

Granada TV are showing highlights at 1045pm on Sunday, as well part of the arena concert. Sky News and BBC 24 are expected to show large chunks of it tonight according to todays Daily Post

[disco]

Could Granada have not put it on a bit later some of use might still be up

[Ged]

Callers to the phone-in today say that already the BBC are on site reporting it on the news, but sadly showed Shard Close, Crocky and mentioned the shootings again as the (dig in the ribs) as the caller called it.

Also ABC and CBS are giving us a good go with a Ringo interview live from Liverpool.

I may even be able to wangle my way into the student flats in the old hotel facing St. Georges - just waiting on a call

Party time...........

[A.D.W]

I may even be able to wangle my way into the student flats in the old hotel facing St. Georges - just waiting on a call

Party time...........

You will get a fine view from there, Ged.

:PDT11

[Ged]

I Know, I hope it comes off. I remember seeing all the ponces up there when the xmas lights got switched on, I thought then, I must try and get in there (no jokes about another ponce joining them though please)

[Cameraman]

Every programme on BBC Radio 2 has mentioned the launch to-night, it has been very positive and there has been lots of Liverpool music. There has been mentions on the news as well.

[Ged]

Here we go, here we go, here we go....

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=ringo-stars-in-08-capital-of-culture-role%26method=full%26objectid=20339740%26siteid=50 061-name_page.html


.

[julieoapw]

I put the times for Granada up last night under the "Film and Television" section. Just realised it's actually on BBC2. My eyes must be going.



Is any of today's event going to be shown live on British TV ?

[julieoapw]

So who's going tonight? I for one. They want you to take a torch. And St Georges Hall, the Walker and World Museum will be open after the show - might be a good place to hang out whilst the crowds disperse.

[A.D.W]

I'll be there. Anybody got any good ideas where the best places might be to take pictures?

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Paul D]

The Culture Show which is on on Sunday night (BBC2) is all about this and tomorrows gig,it might be worth making a note of it.:PDT11

[Max]

Dunno where to snap from for tonights either.

[Kolchak]

I hope that all those of you who get to go there tonight have a wonderful time.

Theres a lot of envious people who wish they could be there amongst you, I'm one of them.

So keep warm, hold your torches high and I hope to see you when the highlights are shown.

Cheers!

[naked lilac]

I definitely am there in Spirit.. LUCKY YOU who live there.. ENJOY...yeah yeah yeah:snf (41):

[john]

The event is live on BBC News 24

[Kev]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news/uk/video/144000/bb/144347_16x9_bb.asx?ad=1&ct=50

[Kev]

...and ringos new single:

http://www.cbsnews.com/common/vplayer4/php/image.php?size=480x360&id=3699447n

[A.D.W]

It were splendid, I say it were splendid!

Hurrah!!

:handclap:

[Max]

Didn't get any photos. I know I should of went earlier but I didn't realise that until I got there, sometimes stuff In my mind doesn't kick In till It happens. Plus my aspergers Is a nightmare when having to speak. :PDT_Xtremez_42:

Went down but was so crowed and I have difficulties communicating so I just used my size to walk through when I was being squashed and stupid families using the baby excuse to swear at people to move was disgusting.

There was chavs just standing around being annoying to get through too.

I just got fed up and once walking through people felt better when some tripped when I bumped my way through.

They should of held It somewhere else, city centre streets get too crowed for moving around even when emergency services need to.

I feel like being a pushy annoying person, these kind of people seem more privileged or the non popular ones still get their way.

Ringo's song Is **** too. He's only popular and liked because he's a Beatle. Liverpool won't acknowledge other musical talent for events or the capital of culture unless there a Beatle.

Not being funny here either but there was Insane amounts of overweight people too. It's becoming another America over here with that stuff.

The Capital Of Cultures bull****, there only looking after the popular places that are already looked after.

[A.D.W]

There was chavs just standing around being annoying to get through too.

Why do those ragamuffins have to be so loud?! I ended up on the St John's carpark.

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[ChrisGeorge]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news/uk/video/144000/bb/144347_16x9_bb.asx?ad=1&ct=50

Thanks, Kev! That was great. Having trouble though accessing the other URL with Ringo's single which only seems to go to a pic of the man from the Dingle.

Chris

[Max]

I went up St Johns carpark too for a bit but too many people there to get to the front to get shots.

Funny when people climbed up the posts that had the St Johns Carpark sign on, would of been fun to sit up there but would of been told to get down.

[Max]

That event was too small for the city centre I reckon.

Couldn't they of used a huge park to launch 08 like Princess park since Ringo's from Toxteth?

[Max]

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=17642568#post17642568

Some 08 shots by Kennyrouge are posted.

I definately applaud him for getting shots due to how hard It was to get any.

[Last Of The Timelords]

I'm sorry but tonight was a total nightmare, a dangerous nightmare, from start to finish.

Firstly, despite the fact that the 25,000+ people attending the concert have been told all week "let the train take the strain" - it seems the actual management of the City Line trains weren't listening.

I headed into town at about 6pm on a two coach train that, even by the time it'd reached the station I got on at (miles away from Lime Street) was dangerously overcrowded. So much so in fact that ours was the last station the crew allowed people onto the train.

We stopped at 6 or 7 totally packed out stations and didn't allow a single person onto the train. I spoke to the young lady guard on the train who told me that the trains had been packed since about 2pm, but that none were larger carriages/more coaches etc beacause the train company hadn't planned for the event.

Terrible.

Then we get to the actual event itself.

I'd like to write what I thought of the actual event but sadly I didn't see any of it.

We left Lime Street and walked around the front of the station, at road level and found a nice spot, along the wall below the shops, not too far along so as to avoid the main throng.

Slowly the crowd started to build which was exciting at first. Then things started getting a little more serious. People were getting pushed over and crushed by the sheer numbers of people trying to make their way towards centre stage. Then, about about 1940, everyone came to a total standstill - and no-one could move, even though more and more people were pouring into the crowd.

There wasn't a steward or a police officer in sight - anywhere - and absolutely no crowd control/safety.

The final straw was a bloke who basically pushed people over, and then stood on them as he marauded his way along the road, swearing about people with kids and generally being a total tool. He tried to maraud past me and met a rather solid fist of mine which accidentally seemed to hit his ribs to much applause from the people around me. He soon stopped.

However, the people were still being crammed onto Lime Street, kids around where I was were crying and panicing, and things started to get badly out of hand. So I made my move back towards Lime Street, as politely as possible, followed by about 3 women with their kids and a couple of pensioners, all of whom were upset and scared, and using me as a kind of battering ram - I was glad to help.

The crush extended to Skelhorne Street where our escape from it was blocked, amazingly, by an immovable metal fence erected for the evening. Still no stewards or any form of crowd control.

Now I realise a lot of people were expected for this event, but surely some sort of risk assesment, or even crowd control should have been in place, somewhere?

I also realise that people may say I'm being negative, and shallow, and moaning, that I'm a disgrace to Liverpool and I'm talking out of me bum.

But trust me, I know a little bit about event management and crowd control - the situation today was absolutely stupid.

And extremely dangerous.

[A.D.W]

I'm sorry but tonight was a total nightmare, a dangerous nightmare, from start to finish.

Well said LotT. I also see they closed Lime Street at the end of the event! I also noticed the Central Station was mobbed as well and the police where not allowing people into the station.

:PDT_Xtremez_12:

[Max]

Oh yeah I saw Lime Street locking certain entrances which seemed stupid and dangerous considering the size of the crowds, It would help to leave them open.

I;m pleased and jealous you got to smack some nutter mate. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

There was more stewards guiding cars than looking after the crowds I agree with you.

Anyone who says your a disgrace is a sissy hippy anyway which means there thoughts are Invalid.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

The manners on families were horrible and what was with them to bring prams? Some were swearing and shouting there babies where having panic attacks.

To let off some steam I made a thread on another forum I visit questioning Ringo Starr's morality.

[Last Of The Timelords]

I;m pleased and jealous you got to smack some nutter mate. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:



An accident of course. Ahem.

[wallasey]

The event is live on BBC News 24

I was lead to believe this, only to find that they would occasionally hop back to Liverpool in-between reports and interviews concerning all things politics. However interesting and enthralling current affairs are, If I am told that the opening event is to be shown on News 24, I expect it to be shown on news 24. Not small snippits! BBCi didnt have the event coverage either.

If anyone recalls correctly, the home comming of LFC saw practically uninterrupted coverage along most of the route of the tour.

Radio Merseyside had reasonably good commentary; obviously not as good as being there and seeing it for yourself.

[Max]

Lol.

I know this sounds ego like but I was suprised how much I stood out in some of the crowd, I expected to see alot more taller people.

I'm still feeling the squashed feeling now.

People were drinking alcohol on the streets too which Is illegal and can't people do without a ciggy In big crowds?

[Max]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFgMqLLjII&feature=related

He still can't escape talking like he Is still narrating Thomas The Tank Engine.

I hope many more forget about him like he pretends to say.:PDT_Piratz_26:

[A.D.W]

A quick video of the crowds -
Lime Street 11th January 2008 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UVTzC8jVQmo).

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[geoffrey]

However interesting and enthralling current affairs are, If I am told that the opening event is to be shown on News 24, I expect it to be shown on news 24. Not small snippits! BBCi didnt have the event coverage either.



On the BBC1 lunchtime news yesterday they said at the half way point where they do a trailer for the local news that News 24 would not be carrying it for 'contractual reasons' but the story wasn't on when they did the local news proper at the end of the broadcast.

This might be something to do with the compromise

[naked lilac]

Wow.. It sure sounds like it was a nightmare how your posts all have read.. :PDT_Xtremez_12:Thats crazy about bringing babies and prams to such an event.. Just outrageous!
Max.. you have made me laugh with some of your posts..especially the Ringo interview.. He did look rediculous.. and in another interview Kev posted.. all he could say..was HE didn't live there anymore.. Like it was beneath him.. So boo hoo to him...
But, please Max.. LOL...NOT all Americans are fat..:rolleyes: maybe the alcohol there contributes to the people being. FAT..:unibrow::PDT_Aliboronz_24: LOL..Thats' a whole other subject.. lack of exercise maybe? LOL...:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
Anyway, Everyone who even ventured to view this historic event... JUST remember.. YA ONLY LIVE ONCE.. and so does 08... So thanks from around the world to ya, for showing us some Liverpool.... ALOHA.... and PEACE...:snf (41)::handclap:

[ChrisGeorge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFgMqLLjII&feature=related

He still can't escape talking like he Is still narrating Thomas The Tank Engine.

I hope many more forget about him like he pretends to say.:PDT_Piratz_26:

A bit cynical there, young Max. Thanks for the YouTube link which got me to the associated videos with his "Liverpool 08" single. I'll be getting the CD tonight as part of my birthday gifts -- my wife Donna and my Mum are going to Tio Pepe's Spanish restaurant near where my Mum lives and I will be opening me gifts there.

Hope the concert at the new stadium goes well tonight. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Chris

[Kev]

Spectacular Capital of Culture show launches Liverpool on world stage

Jan 12 2008 by Samantha Parker, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolpost/jan2008/2/7/6B3A9475-BC74-67E9-1BCE52C09B87C7BD.jpg
Capital of culture opening

IT’S official, our Capital of Culture year is here – and what a way for it to begin. An estimated 50,000 people flooded St George’s Plateau last night for the spectacular 40-minute opening event which included acrobats, choirs, school children and of course, Ringo Starr.

The night started with a countdown from 30 to zero when 2008 exploded above St George’s Hall in fire writing.

There were laughs from the crowd when the MC cried: “This is the moment when the Big Dig became the Big Gig.”

Daring acrobats flew through the air attached by cable to a 150ft crane as a container labelled “precious cargo” transported the Mayor of Liverpool, Cllr Paul Clark, and other famous Liverpool faces including Heidi Range from the Sugababes, The Farm, Marc Almond, and Liz McClarnon from Atomic Kitten.

The showpiece was projected from all around St George’s plateau with performers air-guitaring and drumming from a fantastic stage comprising the top of St George’s Hall, the Empire Theatre and a sole guitarist braving the dizzy heights of the Radio City tower.

Ringo joined in with a solo drum piece to great cheers from the crowds below.

Two giant projection screens depicted the history and achievements of the city, aided by abseilers who had the audience captivated.

The night was illuminated with fireworks let off throughtout the performance on all sides.

Up and coming Liverpool band The Wombats sang their new single “Moving To New York” - but Liverpool was undoubtedly the place people wanted to be last night.

The evening was rounded off with Ringo and Dave Stewart singing his nostalgic new single, Liverpool 8.

Cllr Warren Bradley, the leader of Liverpool council, said: “Tonight was a fabulous opening.

“What a great way to kick start the year long programme of more than 350 Capital of Culture events.

“There is a great buzz about Liverpool and I think tonight reflected that.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolpost/jan2008/5/7/6B63820D-E915-2D4F-7609AE063369E02F.jpg

“Ringo appearing was a tremendous coup and you could tell he went down a storm with the crowd.

“There has also been a worldwide global audience of millions, with TV cameras sending out a powerful, positive message about our amazing city.”

Martin King, director of tourism at The Mersey Partnership, said: “We’ve arrived! Capital of Culture 2008 is well and truly underway. Nowhere in the world can offer what we can in the coming year – and very, very few cities in the world could put on a show like tonight’s to get it all going.

“It’s been a fantastic night for the city and region, and it is just the start.

“Liverpool is really ready to welcome the rest of the world.”

The vast majoprity of the crowd seemed delighted with the opening.

Linda Karey, 43, from Allerton, said: “I thought it was really good. Ringo was good and I liked the Wombats’ performance also. I liked the animation bit on the big screen and I liked the use of the buildings with the fireworks and the guitarists on the top. It was exciting.”

Beverley Lloyd, 40, of Ellesmere Port said: “I would have given it 11 out of 10. It was that good. I liked the guitarists. But the event should have gone on longer and they should have played some Beatles songs like Penny Lane because everyone would have started to sing along.”

Her mother Margaret added: “I think it will make lots of people come to Liverpool. You did not know where to look. It was amazing.”

Claire Tunstall, 36, from Prenton said: “I liked the bit with the children holding the lit up boxes and walking around. Children are a big part of the Capital of Culture because it’s giving them a chance.”

Ray Morris, 46, of Birkenhead, said: “It was fantastic. Great. It was exciting because it showed the city off and the performances were really good. But I thought it was a bit short and it should have gone on a lot longer.”

Some disappointed revellers were however unable to get to St George’s Plateau as packed trains and buses struggled to handle the crowds.

But a spokesman for Merseyrail said: “From 6pm onwards it started to get real busy and after 7pm they were really full, but we controlled it.” Just three arrests were made for public order offences.

Liverpool Daily Post/ Echo

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: Ringo Starr talks to the Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/01/12/exclusive-interview-ringo-starr-talks-to-the-daily-post-64375-20342180/)

‘I’M NOT on holiday – I’m here to play the drums and sing. My message to Liverpool is support Capital of Culture – get out there and give it all you’ve got. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/01/12/exclusive-interview-ringo-starr-talks-to-the-daily-post-64375-20342180/)

[robbo176]

heres the Echo's video of the opening

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/videos-pictures/videos/

[PhilipG]

I was waiting to see if anybody else posted pics, because mine aren't very good.
They're all hand held, over people's heads, so there's loads of camera shake.
Unfortunately the camera broke down half way through!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/2186623523_c7e93be8f3_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/2186624591_4097d2d2fb_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2005/2186624271_004f12d743_o.jpg

[John(Zappa)]

Not to worry philg
Was Ringo good? :unibrow:

[A.D.W]

Good pictures, PhilipG. It was so crowded I couldn't use my tripod, but I might post pictures later if I find any half decent ones.

:Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13

[PhilipG]

Thanks, chaps.
I enjoyed Ringo.
Had to walk home (50 minutes) because there didn't seem to be any buses leaving town.
(The usual number were still going in.)

[robbo176]

good pics Philip:handclap:

I managed to get a taxi home :PDT_Piratz_26:
heres the best of my pictures
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/1guitar.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/1screen.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/1stgeorges.jpg

there rest were too blured

[A.D.W]

Good pictures, Robbo.

:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Kev]

Thanks so much for the pics, I wasn't able to go sadly but have watched the available video clips.

Any more would be greatly appreciated cheers.

:)

[Max]

Wow.. It sure sounds like it was a nightmare how your posts all have read.. :PDT_Xtremez_12:Thats crazy about bringing babies and prams to such an event.. Just outrageous!
Max.. you have made me laugh with some of your posts..especially the Ringo interview.. He did look rediculous.. and in another interview Kev posted.. all he could say..was HE didn't live there anymore.. Like it was beneath him.. So boo hoo to him...
But, please Max.. LOL...NOT all Americans are fat..:rolleyes: maybe the alcohol there contributes to the people being. FAT..:unibrow::PDT_Aliboronz_24: LOL..Thats' a whole other subject.. lack of exercise maybe? LOL...:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
Anyway, Everyone who even ventured to view this historic event... JUST remember.. YA ONLY LIVE ONCE.. and so does 08... So thanks from around the world to ya, for showing us some Liverpool.... ALOHA.... and PEACE...:snf (41)::handclap:

True there are many healthy Americans too, but there was alot of fat scousers squashing me.:PDT10

[A.D.W]

Thanks so much for the pics, I wasn't able to go sadly but have watched the available video clips.

Any more would be greatly appreciated cheers.

:)

Another video for you to watch, Kev.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBPRDDTLsk

[Devo]

Couldn't make it to town so opted for second best, Everton Brow.
There were loads of cars up there even an ice cream van, but nothing much could be seen, and could only be heard on Radio Merseyside. Seems people were expecting to see a Firework Display at the End of proceedings. It was mighty cold up on the Brow, and im sure everyone of us up there were sorry not to have been Squashed in and warm on Lime Street.

http://www.geocities.com/paul.devo/P1010245.JPG

[Phil N]

I actually thought it was a good night, not without faults, but on the whole a good start.
I was pleased with the location and the lighting looked fantastic, plus to use so many different buildings was a great idea. I was especially pleased Urban Stawberry Lunch were invited to play throughout - though a bit annoyed they didn't actually get a mention!! As for Ringo; less said the better, he cant sing and his drumming was never more than competant - He did very little for his 30K expenses, seeing as he agreed to do the event for free!!

Felt sorry for The Wombats, forced to mime, and only allowed one song -

Yeah the sound was crap, but hey it was an 'event' it did make you feel part of something and thats what mattered - Not perfect but a **** good start

[Kev]

Another video for you to watch, Kev.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBPRDDTLsk

cheers

[Paul D]

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8687/coc1oh9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7011/coc2tp9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's probably the best of my pictures,the rest were blurred.

[A.D.W]

Good pictures, Paul D. What I wouldn't have paid to have been allowed to take pictures from the gantry behind where you were stood.

:PDT10

[Paul D]

Good pictures, Paul D. What I wouldn't have paid to have been allowed to take pictures from the gantry behind where you were stood.

:PDT10

I know I thought that,on the radio they were talking about some student from Liverpool whose apartment overlooked the whole area and the press asked could they take pictures from his bedroom,he said of course you can but it'll cost you five grand,they paid up apparently.:)

[Paul D]

I thought the whole event went brilliantly,I'm sure if we'd failed this test the press would've crucified us.I thought Ringo was great and I actually like his song.I'd like to be able to watch it all back so let's hope the culture show (BBC2) on Sunday do it justice,set your video's people.:PDT11

[Kev]

I thought the whole event went brilliantly,I'm sure if we'd failed this test the press would've crucified us.I thought Ringo was great and I actually like his song.I'd like to be able to watch it all back so let's hope the culture show (BBC2) on Sunday do it justice,set your video's people.:PDT11

In case u want it one more time Paul....

...ringos new single:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3699447n

[Paul D]

Thanks Kev I'll have a listen.::PDT_Piratz_26:

[PhilipG]

Thanks Mandy and Paul.
I enjoyed the whole event, and thought the choir sounded beautiful.

Mandy, is your first pic the Wellington monument?
The spotlight went on St Johns Tower, so I took a photo, and it turned out to be my best.
Spot the guitarist, because I can't. LOL.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2186624969_f65c10f93a_o.jpg

[robbo176]

Good pictures, Robbo.

:PDT_Piratz_26:

thanks ADW :PDT_Piratz_26:

[robbo176]

Thanks Mandy and Paul.
I enjoyed the whole event, and thought the choir sounded beautiful.

Mandy, is your first pic the Wellington monument?
The spotlight went on St Johns Tower, so I took a photo, and it turned out to be my best.
Spot the guitarist, because I can't. LOL.




it is the Wellington monument Philip :PDT_Piratz_26:

I couldn't take many photos because I had to lift my daughter through the whole show......my arms are aching today

[lindylou]

Thanks Mandy and Paul.
I enjoyed the whole event, and thought the choir sounded beautiful.

Mandy, is your first pic the Wellington monument?
The spotlight went on St Johns Tower, so I took a photo, and it turned out to be my best.
Spot the guitarist, because I can't. LOL.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2186624969_f65c10f93a_o.jpg

:) the guitarist was there Phil. he was all lit up when he was playing. :)

[John(Zappa)]

:) the guitarist was there Phil. he was all lit up when he was playing. :)

Ahh was he playing or doing a mime act?
Pity Ringo's wasn't mimed.!!!:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[lindylou]

Well, here is my view on the event:


We thought it was brilliant. We had a good experience and didn't find anything to find fault with.

When we first arrived we stood by the Empire. After a while we decided to go for hot coffee to warm us up, so we went to Lime st station were we queued for half an hour for the coffee :) .. didn't mind tho' as it passed the time and we would have been standing outside anyway.
By the time we got the coffee the exits from the station had been closed, except for the Lord Nelson st exit. People were filtered out that way and we got stuck in a solid jam by the side of the Empire. You could not move an inch and I must admit I did get a bit panicky as I could feel the sheer weight of the crowd around me :eek: I knew we would have to get out of that bottle neck ! We squeezed out and eventually managed to get around the back of the Empire and around to London rd - past the Scots piper playing liverpool songs on the pipes :) ... and we found a speck over by the pavement by the Steble fountain. That's where we stayed without any bother. We had a good enough view and we were not too crushed.


I thought the Drummers were great - a very rousing sound, the lights were good, the choir was lovely, the music good, and the atmosphere smashing. :handclap:
Everybody cheered for Ringo. :) ... and why shouldn't they - he is a Beatle isn't he !!


I think we were lucky where we were standing as we didn't see any trouble.

However, I did see some IDIOTS with prams !!! I ask you !! who would DREAM of taking a baby in a pushchair into crowds like that :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .. and such a bitter cold night too for young children. People were crushing past little children in pushchairs - can you imagine the poor little child looking up to a sea of bodies towering above them :disgust: - people are so irresponsible.
( it's a wonder there weren't idiots with dogs !! .. I have seen this on occasions - soft idiots taking poor dogs to events with fireworks !) :rolleyes:

.. anyway, the only complaint I have is that I saw some parents a bit off their heads and drinking beer from a can, and shouting down everyones' earholes, while their long suffering kids looked up at them - in fact there was a point where they lost their kids and security was called - - it didn't stop them form continuing boozing tho' - I moved away from them, as those loud mouth chav types get on my wick.

All in all we had a great time and had no problems. :PDT_Piratz_26:

I was well pleased with the occasion :handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

[mimng]

does nobody care that all of the musicians seemed to be miming????

does nobody care that ringo and the wombats seemed to have singles/albums to promote that are coming out on monday???

does nobody care that all the sinister looking power rangers, i mean, GUITARISTS on the roof of the carpark were not playing their instruments, but in fact looked like some sort of ridiculous silhoutted deathsquad???

does nobody care that at the end of ringo's drum solo (at the start of the event), the music stopped and he was still hitting his drums, despite no sound coming out???

does nobody care that the wonderful sounding choir had no microphones in sight (that i could see)???

does nobody care that the beatles left liverpool just as soon as they could and that the wombats single is called 'moving to new york' (exactly what john lennon did)???

does nobody care that liverpools biggest band of this century, the zutons, were not there at all???? did they tell the capital of culture to f off? PROBABLY!!

capital of culture??? capitalist vultures. i would love to stand corrected on any of the above points, but that is how it appeared to me - i was there. and to me it all looked like a big state propaganda event.

thanks for the freedom of speech.

[mimng]

ps

thanks must go to the wombats for making it blatantly obvious that they were miming, i hope they were told to mime against their better judgements, and they certainly showed everyone that the whole thing was a farce.

[PhilipG]

The Skelhorne Street entrance was kept open as well.
It's understandable that the main entrance was closed as that led to the most densely packed area.
I was on the concourse near the hairdressers, jealous of the people who were on the roofs of those shops.

[PhilipG]

does nobody care that all of the musicians seemed to be miming????

does nobody care that ringo and the wombats seemed to have singles/albums to promote that are coming out on monday???

does nobody care that all the sinister looking power rangers, i mean, GUITARISTS on the roof of the carpark were not playing their instruments, but in fact looked like some sort of ridiculous silhoutted deathsquad???

does nobody care that at the end of ringo's drum solo (at the start of the event), the music stopped and he was still hitting his drums, despite no sound coming out???

does nobody care that the wonderful sounding choir had no microphones in sight (that i could see)???

does nobody care that the beatles left liverpool just as soon as they could and that the wombats single is called 'moving to new york' (exactly what john lennon did)???

does nobody care that liverpools biggest band of this century, the zutons, were not there at all???? did they tell the capital of culture to f off? PROBABLY!!

capital of culture??? capitalist vultures. i would love to stand corrected on any of the above points, but that is how it appeared to me - i was there. and to me it all looked like a big state propaganda event.

thanks for the freedom of speech.

No.
I didn't care.
It was put over well, and sounded great.

[mimng]

No.
I didn't care.
It was put over well, and sounded great.

i expect live music to be LIVE not recorded. im embarassed that other people from this fair city actually like being duped.

[Kev]

You share the same IP address as another member, a coincidence?

:PDT10

[Paul D]

There's no pleasing some people,sometimes I get the impression that even people from Liverpool want it to fail so they can all say I told you so when they're in the pub.One thing this city does produce more than any other is the ability to moan none stop about everthing,if there was a title for that we'd hold that aswell.

[mimng]

this city used to be a hotbed of working class action and now it is becoming another middle class business suite - i hope you all continue to enjoy giving your money to people richer than you are, and making them richer still, because that is all this whole ridiculous capital of culture event is about. good night!

ps luckily i only had to walk to the event, from what i've read on here it seems getting in and getting home from town was a dangerous misery for many people. cui bono?

[lindylou]

Well I don't care about of any of that stuff - 'cos I was just made up to be there and we thought it was great.

Those guitarists and drummers were pure drama and different.


I have to admit tho' that I did notice the title of the Wombat's ' Moving to New York' - and I did think it is ironic because of John Lennon being murdered there :( the Wombats or the organisers should have had the grace to choose something else for them to play. It wouldn't have hurt to play something different.

[Paul D]

Every time you shop,eat,get the bus,take in a show,drive your car,buy your car (in fact everything you do) you give your money to someone richer than you,so what you say means absolutely nothing and it took me 25 minutes to get home from town,misery eh.If you don't like it you don't have to go because nobody forced you too,I'm sure the estimated 3oo million people around the World enjoyed it,I wouldn't expect some people here to because they walk about with a black cloud permanently above their heads moaning,if it wasn't this it'd be the weather getting them down.

[john]

You share the same IP address as another member, a coincidence?

:PDT10

Who could this be???:shock:

[PhilipG]

Remember, the weather was freezing.
Us, in the crowds had the body warmth of each other.
The performers were much more exposed to the cold.
So, they mimed.
So what!

[Paul D]

I have to admit tho' that I did notice the title of the Wombat's ' Moving to New York' - and I did think it is ironic because of John Lennon being murdered there the Wombats or the organisers should have had the grace to choose something else for them to play. It wouldn't have hurt to play something different.


Moving to New York's the new single though and don't forget this was going out to America.:)

[John(Zappa)]

does nobody care that all of the musicians seemed to be miming????

does nobody care that ringo and the wombats seemed to have singles/albums to promote that are coming out on monday???

does nobody care that all the sinister looking power rangers, i mean, GUITARISTS on the roof of the carpark were not playing their instruments, but in fact looked like some sort of ridiculous silhoutted deathsquad???

does nobody care that at the end of ringo's drum solo (at the start of the event), the music stopped and he was still hitting his drums, despite no sound coming out???

does nobody care that the wonderful sounding choir had no microphones in sight (that i could see)???

does nobody care that the beatles left liverpool just as soon as they could and that the wombats single is called 'moving to new york' (exactly what john lennon did)???

does nobody care that liverpools biggest band of this century, the zutons, were not there at all???? did they tell the capital of culture to f off? PROBABLY!!

capital of culture??? capitalist vultures. i would love to stand corrected on any of the above points, but that is how it appeared to me - i was there. and to me it all looked like a big state propaganda event.

thanks for the freedom of speech.

I wish I had put all the above.
Time to be honest folks......(oh I know alot who dont like honesty!).
My mate is working on the cherry picker there and he said he could see all the backhanders etc going on.For the people my ass,for the fat rich cats to get a little richer-definately and for those councillors who need their names in the papers and on tv again just so we know "how good they are".:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[mimng]

i dont LIKE giving my money to any companies - im sure most people dont, and im sure most people think they get overcharged for most goods and services. and when these rich individuals and companies get together and organise things like the capital of culture, which doesnt actually benefit the culture of the city (selling out the culture of quiggins for more middle class shops, covering up ugly buildings rather than redeveloping them, turning the city centre into a building site when it is the poverty of the suburbs that actually needs the regeneration, removing half of the banksy work of art that in any other city would become part of its tourist attraction, spending vast amounts of money on executive lunches and meetings, to name but a few) you have to wonder why so many good people have left the organisation of the capital of culture bid since its inception because they have been appalled at the misdirection of funds.

i went along last night expecting to be dazzled, but was completely flumoxed. to be fair, i was expecting a lot more liverpool music, (some beatles song would have been a GREAT idea, 50,000 people singing along would even made me have liked the guitarists on the roof of the carpark!) if 300million eyes were watching that last night, i would be a little embarassed.

i hope tonight at the echo arena is better. however, i dont have a ticket. easiest way to get one? be the manager of a business based in the city centre....

[mimng]

Remember, the weather was freezing.
Us, in the crowds had the body warmth of each other.
The performers were much more exposed to the cold.
So, they mimed.
So what!

errrr

they dont need to mime at glastonbury, reading or leeds do they?? talk about making excuses for them!

and for january, it was a pretty balmy evening!!! compare that to the wind and rain of glasto last year, i reckon it was warmer last night!

[Kev]

It was a free event wasn't it?

[mimng]

It was a free event wasn't it?

no. our taxes paid for it.

[Kev]

what did u go for then?

[mimng]

as ive already said - for live music

[gregs dad]

As the great Stuart Hall would say on It`s a Knockout "Nil Points" for
Liverpool`s opening night of the C O C. It looked like all the fellows that have been working on the various building sites in the city had decided to have
a party in their working clothes

[Kev]

as ive already said - for live music

lol, i was going to say, 'don't mention live music'.

That's not the impression I got earlier on.

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showpost.php?p=101825&postcount=69

[mimng]

kev - im sorry, i dont follow your logic there....

i went to see the wombats and ringo play live. ringo sang live (unfortunately) and the wombats mimed, as did ringo when he was playing the drums at the start of the event - from what i could tell. i'd love to stand corrected, but people seem to be agreeing with me....

[Kev]

I wouldn't have been that disappointed had I went myself. The point of the event was to launch the Capital of Culture year, we've still got 11 months to showcase Liverpool's live musical talents.

[AK1]

I personally thought it was truly spectacular. The lighting, the interaction with the screens and the use of the cranes was truly amazing. It had everything you could want in an opening ceremony, and it's important to remember that it was an opening ceremony, not a concert.
The concert is at the arena tonight. There was alot of people there and at times it was very hard to move, but it was nothing to be overly worried about. I wish people would stop moaning and stop trying to find something negative with everything that is done, just enjoy yourselves!
It was fantastic and a truly amazing opening for 2008. I applaud everyone who was involved in organising it, and hope to see more of this over the coming year. Happy 2008!:handclap::PDT11

[mimng]

oh right...so you can defend the event you didnt even see...

lets hope they dont all mime for the rest of the year. thousands of musical events would have happened in the city this year even if liverpool had never won the capital of culture because MONEY IS NOT CULTURE!!!!!!

[lindylou]

I personally thought it was truly spectacular. The lighting, the interaction with the screens and the use of the cranes was truly amazing. It had everything you could want in an opening ceremony, and it's important to remember that it was an opening ceremony, not a concert.
The concert is at the arena tonight. There was alot of people there and at times it was very hard to move, but it was nothing to be overly worried about. I wish people would stop moaning and stop trying to find something negative with everything that is done, just enjoy yourselves!
It was fantastic and a truly amazing opening for 2008. I applaud everyone who was involved in organising it, and hope to see more of this over the coming year. Happy 2008!:handclap::PDT11

That's how I felt about it AK1. I found it to be spectacular, dramatic and interesting - you didn't know what was going to happen next.

Very good :handclap: I don't regret going at all.

[Kev]

oh right...so you can defend the event you didnt even see...

For me its much more important than a band singing live.


lets hope they dont all mime for the rest of the year. thousands of musical events would have happened in the city this year even if liverpool had never won the capital of culture because MONEY IS NOT CULTURE!!!!!!

Honestly? Have you always been interested in Liverpool, or just in 2008?

[AK1]

no. our taxes paid for it.

Firstly, per person it will have cost us practically nothing, and secondly it was money well spent!
What are they supposed to do?, not have any events at all because it might cost the taxpayers some money. What a truly selfish and nieve comment.:disgust:

[mimng]

its not a naive comment. someone said it was free, but of course it wasnt, nothing ever is. cost per person is low?? £100m just on the celebrations for the year, according to the Daily Post. And this from the Guardian, 9 Jan 2008:

" The city council has identified a budget gap of about £20m for the next year: a result of hosting the capital of culture. With council tax increases capped at 5%, the council will be forced to borrow money, sell off council land, refinance assets, or use up most of its financial reserves to raise the funds. Do Liverpudlians have a right to feel aggrieved about the inevitable council tax hikes, seeing as payoffs to senior executives have been costly?"

if you take my comments in the wider context (ie capital of culture is about lining rich people's pockets and not investing in culture) then i believe it is big business that is selfish in this city, and nationwide. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and this whole capitalism of culture is a microcosm of that.

but why am i so annoyed about acts miming? because this is supposed be about CULTURE and we were forced to listen to a CD playing, and musicians delivering fake performances. if you cant understand that that is selling culture short, then I cannot understand how you can understand culture at all.

[PhilipG]

mimng, or is it John?
You talk about honesty.
Why can't YOU be honest enough to post in your usual name, rather than inventing one just to have a go at last night?

[naked lilac]

In case u want it one more time Paul....

...ringos new single:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3699447n

Kev.. ta for that video.. I loved the song.. very nice lyrics.. and well.. I quess the lyrics say it all about HIS life.. What an Icon.. and YES.. he has given back to the City 100%.. Too bad Paul didn't join him in this commemoration.. Well.. JOLLY GOOD... yeah yeah yeah.. LIVERPOOL:snf (41):

[John(Zappa)]

kev - im sorry, i dont follow your logic there....

i went to see the wombats and ringo play live. ringo sang live (unfortunately) and the wombats mimed, as did ringo when he was playing the drums at the start of the event - from what i could tell. i'd love to stand corrected, but people seem to be agreeing with me....

I agree with you.
Some people will accept anything.Even miming and kidding the audience.
By the way,lots of freebies was had by most of the staff!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[shoney]

where are the 300million people who watched it situated, there is absolutely no coverage of it down here and the only link i can find is this article that appeared in the NZ herald , our largest paper on December the 4th

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1501119/story.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10480195

sometimes numbers get way exagerated to help the hype, they do it down here every time the rugby world cup is on by stating it's the 3rd largest sporting event in the world

[naked lilac]

Shoney.. I tried to locate it on TV here too..was suppose to be showing.. but, for the life of me..I couldn't find it.. CBS or ABC or ??? Well, YO and its people have brought at least the real thing to life.. and Thanks from me..:snf (41)::handclap: Hopefully somewhere in the later news tonight.. it will be shown.. I will keep posted.. aloha...

[mbeh64]

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ag1MgtHzEqI&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ag1MgtHzEqI&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[mbeh64]

Found a video done by CBS of Ringos 08 performance on you tube. Unfortunatly I am unable to put the link to it on here.

So the best thing to do is go to You Tube, search under Ringo Starr Liverpool 08 and you should see the video near the top

[A.D.W]

Found a video done by CBS of Ringos 08 performance on you tube. Unfortunatly I am unable to put the link to it on here.

So the best thing to do is go to You Tube, search under Ringo Starr Liverpool 08 and you should see the video near the top

:)

Ag1MgtHzEqI

[A.D.W]

My final video of last night. Enjoy or not!

:)

neOsWen0Tgg

[lindylou]

As the great Stuart Hall would say on It`s a Knockout "Nil Points" for
Liverpool`s opening night of the C O C. It looked like all the fellows that have been working on the various building sites in the city had decided to have
a party in their working clothes

Hi greg's dad, As far as I understand it, the workmen and cranes featured were to represent the 'big dig' - there was a slogan about the ''big dig coming to the gig'' - I think it was a good idea to make a reference to the cranes which have been part of our landscape for so long.

:)

[lindylou]

The narrator who was at the top of the Wellington column - does anyone know who he was ?

[mimng]

mimng, or is it John?
You talk about honesty.
Why can't YOU be honest enough to post in your usual name, rather than inventing one just to have a go at last night?

honestly, phil G, im not john. i don't know john, unless john is the john who is the drummer in my band. and i dont think he is (mainly because the john i know cant use a computer)!

i am merely a disaffected punter who typed in 'liverpool forum' into google and came here in order to vent spleen about last night. is john a notorious doom-sayer on this site? he seems pretty right on to me!

[buggedboy]

Well I went to both events and was hugely impressed with both.

The friday night event was brilliant. I was very impressed with the use of the plateau and everyone around me had a great time. The cranes, guitarists on car parks etc was clever and the kids demonstrating their work was a nice touch.

As to any accusations of miming. I didnt get any inkling of that from either Ringo or the Wombats.

Even if they did. it wasnt a concert, it was a ceremony. The Big Dig/Gig thing was only used because it rhymed!

The archer at the BArcelona olymics in 1992 actually missed the torch and it was activated by a machine, btu who cared? Nobody. It was great anyway.

Also I'm glad they veered away from Beatles stuff on this occasion. If they would have trotted out any of those, it would have looked far too much like we were indeed living in the past.

Yes Ringo was there, but he is an actively recording artist and to use new stuff blended in our past with our future pretty well.

So Friday got a thumbs up from me.

On to Saturday.

As opposed to the more cynical on here the whole thing wasnt a big corporate shmooze at all.

How did I get in? I got in for FREE because of my charity work, along with hundreds of others. Loads of seats were given away by the Culture Company to local community organisations.

As to the content. Really good actually. Chest swelling pride stuff at times.

The orchestra was immense throughout, along with the No Fakin boys. You name it, rope stunts, Irish solo singers, African music, breakdancers, a moving tribute to John Lennon, amazing visuals, the Farm getting everybody on their feet and of course...Mr Starr giving us a rendition of his horribly sentimental but ultimately quite cosy new single (which suffered the only technical glitch of the whole night) as well as "a little help from my friends" and "power to the people" when all the artists came on stage for a signalong.

Brilliantly executed and a tremendous opening weekend.

[Howie]

IS THAT IT........?

WE went with high hopes - but left with huge disappointment.
Tonight's opening was typical of the Culture Company's top down approach.
A massive crowd turned up expecting a great show.
But none of us were engaged.
There was no singalong to any recognisable Liverpool 'anthem'.
No dancing. No terrace chants. No humour.
No emotional engagement with what is being done in our name, with our money, in our city.
Instead we were presented with a generally uninspiring, unfocussed, unintelligible series of set piece scenes.
It was cold and flat and, sadly, a bit dull.
It has also cost the city a fortune.
Ringo's appearance was a cynical attempt to cash in on the year - and promote his new single. Incredibly, the unknown MC told us, without a trace of Scouse irony, that Ringo's single was "on sale on Monday."
People in the crowd shuffled their feet with embarrassment.
As the patient and passive spectators were showered with confetti, one wag near us commented loudly: "That's council taxpayer's money."
The sound was crap, the fireworks flat and the music, too often, a lifeless thrash.
St George's Hall, as ever, looked wonderful.
People started leaving after 30 minutes.
By the end, most of us were dying to get off to the pub and drown our disappointment.
We have no doubt that the people of Liverpool will make the most of 2008.
But on the evidence of this damp squib, it will be in spite of the city council and the Culture Company and the hangers-on and the bullsh!tters - not because of them.
We will say no more, except to record the fact that Jason Harborow had the utterly astonishing cheek to turn up at the after show party at the Empire where he spent most of the time the time drinking with Hasitall and Colin CoverUp. No doubt negotiating his pay-off. We will post a picture soon.
We leave any further comment on what should have been an historic and celebratory night to you, the people of Liverpool. Feel free.
This is Liverpool, European Capital of Culture 2008.

Source: Liverpool subCulture (http://liverpoolsubculture.blogspot.com/2008/01/is-that-it.html)

[PhilipG]

I clicked on the link in the above post, and every last comment was negative.

Representative?
I think not.

[shoney]

what actually goes on during this capital of culture year, I have no idea, I know people are spending vast amounts of money trying to beautify the place but I still don't know what really happens, does anyone else have a clue.?

[Howie]

what actually goes on during this capital of culture year, I have no idea, I know people are spending vast amounts of money trying to beautify the place but I still don't know what really happens, does anyone else have a clue.?

Presentation of the Capitals

The title "European Capital of Culture" was designed to help bring European citizens closer together. This was the idea underlying its launch in June 1985 by the Council of Ministers of the European Union on the initiative of Melina Mercouri. Owing to the many visitors it has attracted, the title has since gone from strength to strength in Europe. This event is different from other cultural events by its size and its visibility. It requires a high standard of artistic quality.

Since 1985, more than 30 cities have been designated European Capitals of Culture, from Stockholm to Genoa, Athens to Glasgow, and Cracow to Porto. Over the years, this event has evolved without losing sight of its primary objective : to highlight the richness and diversity of European cultures and the features they share, promote greater mutual acquaintance between European citizens, foster a feeling of European citizenship.

Below you will find all the relevant information about the development of the action since 1985, the current process of designating the European capitals of Culture, and the European co-funding of the event. Various experiences from previous European Capital of Culture (ECOC) selections are presented to illustrate the criteria the cities have to meet in order to be selected.


Purpose and objectives of the event (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/objectives_en.html)

Official documents (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/off_doc_en.html)

Designation process (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/designation_en.html)

2011 - 2012 (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/titre_2011_en.html) et 2013 (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/titre_2013_en.html)

Community co-funding (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/financing_en.html)

History (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/retrospective_en.html)

Source: European Commission (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/present_cap_en.html)


>> Liverpool 2008 Programme Download (http://www.liverpool08.com/Images/Liverpool%202008%20calendar_tcm79-108107.pdf) (755.3KB .pdf) << :snf (41):

[iain]

I thought it was brilliant :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

My vantage point wasn't so brilliant, there was a tree between me and most of the action :rolleyes: but I thought the setting of the show was superb, using all the buildings in sight with a fantastic light and firework show. All the acrobats performing in mid-air being swung around by the cranes were brilliant! Especially the bit with the animation on the big screens and the people acting in front of it. It didn't take me long to realise the guitarists were faking it, but I didn't let it spoil the show - I was there to enjoy myself so I did :PDT10 I must say though I didn't know the Wombats or Ringo were miming. Why give Ringo such a slating? Criticised for leaving Liverpool, and now criticised when he comes back! Everyone in earshot of me at least gave him a rapturous welcome back.

Yes it did cost our taxpayers' money. But how do you put on a show otherwise? "Nothing is ever free". Yes you could save hundreds of millions of taxpayers' £££'s by not having any of these events .... but what's the Capital of Culture without anything going on :PDT10

Friday's show made me proud.

[buggedboy]

I clicked on the link in the above post, and every last comment was negative.

Representative?
I think not.


True. I never listen to much that is said on the Liverpool Subculture. We often log on at work to simply giggle at the moaning LCC employees who winge at everything and anything done by anyone except comrade Joe Anderson and his cronies who wish nothing but to take the city the point where all have to queue for our bread before taking our hammer and sickle out into the fields.

[John(Zappa)]

honestly, phil G, im not john. i don't know john, unless john is the john who is the drummer in my band. and i dont think he is (mainly because the john i know cant use a computer)!

i am merely a disaffected punter who typed in 'liverpool forum' into google and came here in order to vent spleen about last night. is john a notorious doom-sayer on this site? he seems pretty right on to me!

I think they think you are me or I am you.
If they had enough balls just to say so.
I will not and never have hidden my name,changed it or whatever you think.
I am what I am,like it or loathe it.I am me.
You are what you is.
So anyone who thinks am signing in as mimng please say so...to my face(address available upon request).Am not into silly stupid games kidz!!:PDT10

[Kev]

I think they think you are me or I am you.
If they had enough balls just to say so.
I will not and never have hidden my name,changed it or whatever you think.
I am what I am,like it or loathe it.I am me.
You are what you is.
So anyone who thinks am signing in as mimng please say so...to my face(address available upon request).Am not into silly stupid games kidz!!:PDT10

John, the member in question mimng, shares the same IP address as another member called 'Jon' who I'm still waiting hear from, I had earlier posted a message in error with the name spelt 'John'. Thats probably the misunderstanding.

[PhilipG]

John, the member in question mimng, shares the same IP address as another member called 'Jon' who I'm still waiting hear from, I had earlier posted a message in error with the name spelt 'John'. Thats probably the misunderstanding.

My comment wasn't aimed at any John in particular, and I did put a question mark, but even without Kev's typo it was obvious that mimng was invented for one purpose only.
I do apologise to all the John's on this forum. :hug:

[John(Zappa)]

I NEVER will hide behind another name or whatever.So it's not me.
Glad that's cleared that up.Jeezus some people!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[Kev]

I NEVER will hide behind another name or whatever.So it's not me.
Glad that's cleared that up.Jeezus some people!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_42:

John, experience on the forum has shown that some member have set up multiple accounts and unfortunately abused this to post messages designed to upset etc.

I regularly check the ip addresses.

I doubt you would ever do such a thing mate :PDT11

[lindylou]

I thought it was brilliant :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

My vantage point wasn't so brilliant, there was a tree between me and most of the action :rolleyes: but I thought the setting of the show was superb, using all the buildings in sight with a fantastic light and firework show. All the acrobats performing in mid-air being swung around by the cranes were brilliant! Especially the bit with the animation on the big screens and the people acting in front of it. It didn't take me long to realise the guitarists were faking it, but I didn't let it spoil the show - I was there to enjoy myself so I did :PDT10 I must say though I didn't know the Wombats or Ringo were miming. Why give Ringo such a slating? Criticised for leaving Liverpool, and now criticised when he comes back! Everyone in earshot of me at least gave him a rapturous welcome back.

Yes it did cost our taxpayers' money. But how do you put on a show otherwise? "Nothing is ever free". Yes you could save hundreds of millions of taxpayers' £££'s by not having any of these events .... but what's the Capital of Culture without anything going on :PDT10

Friday's show made me proud.


Well said. That's how we saw it - a superb and dramatic setting, and the absailers in front of the big screens were good - looking like they were part of the film. :handclap:

.. and like you said, everyone around gave Ringo a big cheer.
(Yes, Ringo would have been slated if he wasn't there.) :rolleyes:


as for the guitarists being mimed - well, we were too enthralled with all that was going on to notice - and who cares anyway ?? They were pretty dramatic. Maybe they couldn't play live for obvious reasons - - that they were blinkin' miles up on the top of such tall structures :shock: Let the critics try playing guitar all the way up there and in the freezing wind and cold !!


Like you, we went to enjoy it too. :)

[Max]

Too conveiniet for Gringo to return to Liverpool.

Granada just reported the show at the Echo arena and never mentioned who the Muscial acts where! It seems musical wise If your not a Beatle or not associated with them and from Liverpool theres no mention.

A 2nd rate church choir could of wrote what the Beatles did.

[Steven]

Hmmmmmmmm that sounds nearly positive for you.

[John(Zappa)]

Too conveiniet for Gringo to return to Liverpool.

Granada just reported the show at the Echo arena and never mentioned who the Muscial acts where! It seems musical wise If your not a Beatle or not associated with them and from Liverpool theres no mention.

A 2nd rate church choir could of wrote what the Beatles did.

Go ed Max.Your awake at least.Nice one!:PDT11

[Libertarian]

I think that on the whole this weekend has been a success for Liverpool

[Kev]

Me too.

[mr mcmoof]

To add my voice to the discussions on the CoC opening event...

It's a question of plastic culture. Of when culture is not really culture at all -- but a placebo culture, a Mackie-D's for the soul, all sugar and E-numbers, and no nutrition, simply designed to give you a quick and easy fix.

Such is the way of the world today, I guess; and the sad truth is that plastic concerts are more than good enough for the plastic people they are intended for. Fake as hell, but easy to put on, and easy to absorb. Nothing too taxing. If you're organising an event, the Lowest Common Denominator is the way to go - why make more work for yourself anyway trying to push back the envelope when you can slap a few cliches together?

For example, why bother getting together the most outspoken poets, bands and performance artists from Liverpool and giving them a platform to really tell the world what it is that Liverpool feels in it's heart, how it is that the people of Liverpool - poor, ill-treated Liverpool - really feel about the wider world around them?

No, no. Too much original thought required for that one. Far easier to wheel out Ringo Starr after two decades of sitting on a beach in Los Angeles -- he was in the BEATLES, did you know that?

And besides, everyone knows original thought is dangerous anyway. Why, if anything to controversial and/or insightful is said, you run the risk of alienating all those generous 'partners' - the sponsors, the private companies with their fingers prodded firmly and deeply into the pie (as always).

There is a fantasy to be maintained after all, an illusion to keep going -- of this plastic world that the plastic people live in, going to these plastic concerts in the first place, for a little plastic culture. A fantasty that maintains that this world of avarice and consumerism and market branding by mind-control from childhood isn't falling to pieces in front of our every eyes; and that the people who control its course, and benefit most from it, aren't shafting us with every waking breath.

To me, the CoC opening ceremony was nothing more than a feeble attempt at justifying all the damage this meaningless title has brought to Liverpool, thanks to the team of incompetents charged with its supervision. The Capital of Culture team have managed to finish the work Hitler's mob started back in the 1940s. Between all the different construction contractors and redevelopment agencies, half of the city's architectural heritage has been demolished to build DROSS in its place -- with it going much human-cultural heritage (ripping down Toxteth to build designer flats that most of the former residents can't afford, for example), not to mention much of the city's COUTER-cultural heritage (Quiggins RIP). Yes, for the privilege of a few more dull-as-dishwater, generic shopping malls like the Met Quarter, the city's council budget has been ransacked... handed, btw, over to those propety developers. Oh, thank goodness for them, and all those wonderful city 'partners', noble and selfless as they are, helping renovate our city for nothing more than massively in excess of the money it costs. Don't be fooled by the fact that not one of them lifted a greasy finger during all those years that Liverpool really needed a little helping hand -- you know, like doing something about all those buildings that have been fire damaged for decades, or even remained bomb-damaged from the SECOND WORLD WAR... Or providing jobs or investment of any form for a hopeless generation.

Sorry CoC staff, but it didn't work. The opening ceremony was banal and as fake ass as it gets. The perfect opening ceremony for the banal and fake ass "culture" this city shares with the rest of the twenty first century world. And on top of all that -- you were all friggn miming as well!!!

Oh, and as for the performers who wore construction-site safety gear as an 'hilarious' inside joke -- well it kind of reminded me of Tony Blair's equally 'hilarious' "Am I bovvered I've ****ed up the whole world?" sketch on Comic Relief.

As in, it was a slap in the face.

[mr mcmoof]

as for the guitarists being mimed - well, we were too enthralled with all that was going on to notice - and who cares anyway ?? They were pretty dramatic.


Exactly my point.

Btw, it isn't any harder to play a musical instrument depending on how far away you are from the Earth's core.

Unless you're in space.

[Libertarian]

To add my voice to the discussions on the CoC opening event...

It's a question of plastic culture. Of when culture is not really culture at all -- but a placebo culture, a Mackie-D's for the soul, all sugar and E-numbers, and no nutrition, simply designed to give you a quick and easy fix.

Such is the way of the world today, I guess; and the sad truth is that plastic concerts are more than good enough for the plastic people they are intended for. Fake as hell, but easy to put on, and easy to absorb. Nothing too taxing. If you're organising an event, the Lowest Common Denominator is the way to go - why make more work for yourself anyway trying to push back the envelope when you can slap a few cliches together?

For example, why bother getting together the most outspoken poets, bands and performance artists from Liverpool and giving them a platform to really tell the world what it is that Liverpool feels in it's heart, how it is that the people of Liverpool - poor, ill-treated Liverpool - really feel about the wider world around them?

No, no. Too much original thought required for that one. Far easier to wheel out Ringo Starr after two decades of sitting on a beach in Los Angeles -- he was in the BEATLES, did you know that?

And besides, everyone knows original thought is dangerous anyway. Why, if anything to controversial and/or insightful is said, you run the risk of alienating all those generous 'partners' - the sponsors, the private companies with their fingers prodded firmly and deeply into the pie (as always).

There is a fantasy to be maintained after all, an illusion to keep going -- of this plastic world that the plastic people live in, going to these plastic concerts in the first place, for a little plastic culture. A fantasty that maintains that this world of avarice and consumerism and market branding by mind-control from childhood isn't falling to pieces in front of our every eyes; and that the people who control its course, and benefit most from it, aren't shafting us with every waking breath.

To me, the CoC opening ceremony was nothing more than a feeble attempt at justifying all the damage this meaningless title has brought to Liverpool, thanks to the team of incompetents charged with its supervision. The Capital of Culture team have managed to finish the work Hitler's mob started back in the 1940s. Between all the different construction contractors and redevelopment agencies, half of the city's architectural heritage has been demolished to build DROSS in its place -- with it going much human-cultural heritage (ripping down Toxteth to build designer flats that most of the former residents can't afford, for example), not to mention much of the city's COUTER-cultural heritage (Quiggins RIP). Yes, for the privilege of a few more dull-as-dishwater, generic shopping malls like the Met Quarter, the city's council budget has been ransacked... handed, btw, over to those propety developers. Oh, thank goodness for them, and all those wonderful city 'partners', noble and selfless as they are, helping renovate our city for nothing more than massively in excess of the money it costs. Don't be fooled by the fact that not one of them lifted a greasy finger during all those years that Liverpool really needed a little helping hand -- you know, like doing something about all those buildings that have been fire damaged for decades, or even remained bomb-damaged from the SECOND WORLD WAR... Or providing jobs or investment of any form for a hopeless generation.

Sorry CoC staff, but it didn't work. The opening ceremony was banal and as fake ass as it gets. The perfect opening ceremony for the banal and fake ass "culture" this city shares with the rest of the twenty first century world. And on top of all that -- you were all friggn miming as well!!!

Oh, and as for the performers who wore construction-site safety gear as an 'hilarious' inside joke -- well it kind of reminded me of Tony Blair's equally 'hilarious' "Am I bovvered I've ****ed up the whole world?" sketch on Comic Relief.

As in, it was a slap in the face.

Sorry you didn't like it but some people do. Capital of culture will also feature people like Simon Rattle and public lectures at the University so its not all gonna be about Ringo and the Beatles. As for construction workers are you saying construction workers cant be cultured or do you think only effete oxford dons who hate postmodernism are truly cultured?

[mr mcmoof]

As for construction workers are you saying construction workers cant be cultured or do you think only effete oxford dons who hate postmodernism are truly cultured?

Don't be so ridiculous. And stop trying to make me look like some sort of snob by misrepresenting what I write. You know full well what I'm talking about.

The decision by the organisers to make construction wear a constume theme for the evening, in an intendedly amusing reference to all the building work being done across the city, was an insult, when you bear in mind the realities of the situation.

[Libertarian]

Don't be so ridiculous. And stop trying to make me look like some sort of snob by misrepresenting what I write. You know full well what I'm talking about.

The decision by the organisers to make construction wear a constume theme for the evening, in an intendedly amusing reference to all the building work being done across the city, was an insult, when you bear in mind the realities of the situation.

As I said capital of culture is about more than the opening ceremony. Obviously the word culture is debatable, culture for one person is not culture for another. I have looked at the events and there seems to be a mixture of high brow and popular culture. Personally I thought there needed to be more local involvement and events but this has been a topic of contention for a while now and is not new to the opening ceremony. I thought the opening ceremony was a pleasant way to spend an evening but the fact is that if you don't like it dont attend--simple.

[mr mcmoof]

As I said capital of culture is about more than the opening ceremony. Obviously the word culture is debatable, culture for one person is not culture for another. I have looked at the events and there seems to be a mixture of high brow and popular culture. Personally I thought there needed to be more local involvement and events but this has been a topic of contention for a while now and is not new to the opening ceremony. I thought the opening ceremony was a pleasant way to spend an evening but the fact is that if you don't like it dont attend--simple.

I take your point that there are events planned for the rest of the year that are likely to be more culturally rich. But lectures at the university are hardly going to be transmitted to 300 million people across Europe, and be the main focus of a night's event are they?

Besides, I didn't know it was going to be rubbish before I went, otherwise I wouldn't have gone. But having picked up the bill along with the rest of the people in the city, I feel pretty justified in criticising the quality of the product. As a consumer, you understand.

[Libertarian]

I take your point that there are events planned for the rest of the year that are likely to be more culturally rich. But lectures at the university are hardly going to be transmitted to 300 million people across Europe, and be the main focus of a night's event are they?

Besides, I didn't know it was going to be rubbish before I went, otherwise I wouldn't have gone. But having picked up the bill along with the rest of the people in the city, I feel pretty justified in criticising the quality of the product. As a consumer, you understand.

Look I'm not gonna get personal about this. as it happens I didn't go because its not really my thing. Opening ceremonies tend to be plasticy don't they whether its the olympics or commonwealth games. The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic at the Echo arena though last night are an example of deep real culture and the fact that they played next to bands like the Farm or the Zutons --local lads shows how high culture and popular culture can interact seemlessly. I didn't see any references to the Met Quarter or shopping in the events. By the way I think it wrong that the council tax payer is picking up part of the bill for these events too, but when the elections come you have the chance to vote the people wwho make these decisons out! Part of the freedoms of living ina plasticy democracy.

[Libertarian]

Quote To me, the CoC opening ceremony was nothing more than a feeble attempt at justifying all the damage this meaningless title has brought to Liverpool, thanks to the team of incompetents charged with its supervision. The Capital of Culture team have managed to finish the work Hitler's mob started back in the 1940s. Between all the different construction contractors and redevelopment agencies, half of the city's architectural heritage has been demolished to build DROSS in its place

Like Paradise street where the architectural gems such as the Moat House Hotel and the 60's bus station have been demolished. A very tacky street. Or Whitechapel ok a very bland mall has been built but its an improvement on the tacky 70's post office with mirrors on the front.

[mimng]

John, the member in question mimng, shares the same IP address as another member called 'Jon' who I'm still waiting hear from, I had earlier posted a message in error with the name spelt 'John'. Thats probably the misunderstanding.

i connect to the internet via my mobile phone, which is a t-mobile contract phone, on the web n walk plus plan. i can guarantee i have never ever posted to this board prior to my original post. if someone else posts from the same IP address as me, then i can only surmise that they must have broken into my flat, stolen my mobile phone, connected to the internet with it, created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website, and then replaced my mobile phone EACH AND EVERY TIME THEY POSTED!

the other only possible explanation is my girlfriend is the person behind the profile called 'Jon', which is also highly unlikely!

there is one more explanation of course....IP addresses are not always static and in fact, in some cases, change each time a person logs on to the internet. so please will people accept that i am an original person with opinions who wanted to express them - now will you please concentrate on what it is i had to say, instead of questioning the validity of my existence and seeming to reduce all the opinions of people who think CoC is a joke down to one rogue person creating multiple identities. people have different opinions - accept it!

i wholly appreciate the post from mr mcmoof, it shows that, lo, there are more of us! more people who can think for themselves and see through propaganda.

i went to the docks today to see the turner prize before they packed it away. high art isnt really for me, but it is good that it was here. however, the thought struck me as i looked at all the building work, providing the new shopping 'mall' on the other side of the strand - what is the point of more shops? what can you not already buy in liverpool? there's already two of most shops in the city centre, do we need to add a third argos, a third cex? surely not. chavasse park was the last bit of greenery left in the city centre. now there is none. who really thinks this is a good idea??

[Kev]

....created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website,

Pardon?

[Libertarian]

i connect to the internet via my mobile phone, which is a t-mobile contract phone, on the web n walk plus plan. i can guarantee i have never ever posted to this board prior to my original post. if someone else posts from the same IP address as me, then i can only surmise that they must have broken into my flat, stolen my mobile phone, connected to the internet with it, created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website, and then replaced my mobile phone EACH AND EVERY TIME THEY POSTED!

the other only possible explanation is my girlfriend is the person behind the profile called 'Jon', which is also highly unlikely!

there is one more explanation of course....IP addresses are not always static and in fact, in some cases, change each time a person logs on to the internet. so please will people accept that i am an original person with opinions who wanted to express them - now will you please concentrate on what it is i had to say, instead of questioning the validity of my existence and seeming to reduce all the opinions of people who think CoC is a joke down to one rogue person creating multiple identities. people have different opinions - accept it!

i wholly appreciate the post from mr mcmoof, it shows that, lo, there are more of us! more people who can think for themselves and see through propaganda.

i went to the docks today to see the turner prize before they packed it away. high art isnt really for me, but it is good that it was here. however, the thought struck me as i looked at all the building work, providing the new shopping 'mall' on the other side of the strand - what is the point of more shops? what can you not already buy in liverpool? there's already two of most shops in the city centre, do we need to add a third argos, a third cex? surely not. chavasse park was the last bit of greenery left in the city centre. now there is none. who really thinks this is a good idea??

How was the opening ceremony 'propaganda' Chavasse park is not going a new park is going to be developed in the new development. As for the new development I too think we have a glut of shops and it is worrying that shopping is the number one leisure activity now. However, I do appreciate that this development is going to creat thousands of jobs for local people, I remember the hungry 80's in Liverpool and if someone had told me that all this investment and work was gonna be created here then I would have thought it impossible. Do you want to go back to the early 80's when Yosser famously walked around a silted up Albert Dock remember how bad it was? Or today when we are hosting the Turner prize at that location? By the way thats not high art its modernism.

[mimng]

Pardon?

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

[mimng]

apologies - puerile. spelling mistake, just like my name!

[Kev]

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

You could have avoided this misunderstanding by introducing yourself, tell us a bit about yourself as most people do. It tends to breaks the ice with members.

[mimng]

How was the opening ceremony 'propaganda' Chavasse park is not going a new park is going to be developed in the new development. As for the new development I too think we have a glut of shops and it is worrying that shopping is the number one leisure activity now. However, I do appreciate that this development is going to creat thousands of jobs for local people, I remember the hungry 80's in Liverpool and if someone had told me that all this investment and work was gonna be created here then I would have thought it impossible. Do you want to go back to the early 80's when Yosser famously walked around a silted up Albert Dock remember how bad it was? Or today when we are hosting the Turner prize at that location? By the way thats not high art its modernism.

im glad we agree about the shops. however, if chavasse park is still gonna be there, its gonna be a lot smaller, and in the shadow of a giant shopping mall. personally from looking at the area today i cannot see how it is possible. however, like all my earlier posts, i would love to stand corrected on any issues ive raised, so i'll be the first to admit i was wrong if a beautiful chavasse park is open by the end of the year.

as to the hungry 80s, i agree the albert dock looks much better now that big business has intervened. it mustbe great for the rich people who live there. shame about the suburbs of the city, where most people actually live of course.

the opening ceremony wasnt propaganda per se - i was alluding to the earlier post about plastic culture, and people accepting what is dealt to them without thinking about who benefits from all this. scousers or business? scousers more than business? or business more than scousers?

i argue any scouse happiness will only be a by-product of business profit, and that is my final thought on the matter. if we cant agree on this, then we are never going to.

again - thanks for the freedom of speech.

[mimng]

You could have avoided this misunderstanding by introducing yourself, tell us a bit about yourself as most people do. It tends to breaks the ice with members.

apologies. i did not want to offend, i only intended to post once and then probably wouldnt have come back. but people seemed to be angry that i was somone else! of course, im not.

as an adminstrator, you should beware the idea of looking up peoples IP addresses to find things out about them - maybe you should speak to them civilly before publicly accusing of things you do not know about.

[Libertarian]

im glad we agree about the shops. however, if chavasse park is still gonna be there, its gonna be a lot smaller, and in the shadow of a giant shopping mall. personally from looking at the area today i cannot see how it is possible. however, like all my earlier posts, i would love to stand corrected on any issues ive raised, so i'll be the first to admit i was wrong if a beautiful chavasse park is open by the end of the year.

as to the hungry 80s, i agree the albert dock looks much better now that big business has intervened. it mustbe great for the rich people who live there. shame about the suburbs of the city, where most people actually live of course.

the opening ceremony wasnt propaganda per se - i was alluding to the earlier post about plastic culture, and people accepting what is dealt to them without thinking about who benefits from all this. scousers or business? scousers more than business? or business more than scousers?

i argue any scouse happiness will only be a by-product of business profit, and that is my final thought on the matter. if we cant agree on this, then we are never going to.

again - thanks for the freedom of speech.

You make some interesting and correct points. As far as i'm aware the new park is gonna be on top of an underground carpark. I don't know if it's gonna be bigger or smaller but my guess is that it will be smaller for financial reasons. However, my memories of Chavasse park are those simply of a field more than anything that didn't look particularly attractive and was overlooked by empty offices and the Moat House.

True it is big business that has regenerated the Albert Dock and I could not afford to live there but I have found much happiness in browsing through the free public galleries on many occasions, galleries that have brought the maritime history of the area to public attention, slavery, modern art, the beatles, and liverpools history.

Totally true that little is being done for the capital of culture in outlying areas and you are right to question who benefits in the end from the city's regeneration.

[Kev]

as an adminstrator, you should beware the idea of looking up peoples IP addresses to find things out about them - maybe you should speak to them civilly before publicly accusing of things you do not know about.

I didn't accuse you of anything, I just mentioned that the ip addy was shared with another member, unless I've posted something I've forgotten about.

[lindylou]

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

It HAS happened before and that is the reason why admins are suspicious of alter-egos.

This time may have been a misunderstanding, but apart from anything else, I personally take offence to your arrogant remark that this is a puerile forum.
That is an insult to the hard work that has gone into creating this site, and an insult to the members.

I doubt if you will be very welcome after a remark like that.

That is MY opinion thankyou very much.

[Howie]

There's no pleasing some people,sometimes I get the impression that even people from Liverpool want it to fail so they can all say I told you so when they're in the pub.One thing this city does produce more than any other is the ability to moan none stop about everthing,if there was a title for that we'd hold that aswell.

Start at the top
Jan 14 2008
by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

I WISH I had a quid for everybody I have heard these last two weeks berating the moaners and groaners allegedly dragging down Liverpool’s name.

We are all supposed to fly the flag for Liverpool in its Culture year, and keep schtum about any of the problems lurking in the background. Those who fail to abide by this decree are the equivalent of traitors, and need to be incarcerated in the old Dale Street Bridewell until January 1, 2009.

Even the Bishop of Liverpool has called for an end to the bickering. Well, yes, we should all pull together for the sake of our great city in its greatest year.

So how about starting with our politicians and highly-paid officials? Don’t see many signs there of happy-hugging and cross-party cheerleading.

Neither, it seems, does the District Auditor, Tim Watkinson. He is the man who keeps a careful watch on what’s happening in our town halls.

His latest report, presented to a committee of elected councillors last week, makes illuminating reading. He has told Liverpool City Council that it needs to improve its governance arrangements, in particular the way in which the elected councillors and senior officers work together to deliver the vision and services for Liverpool.

He adds that, despite some encouraging signs of recognition of the need for improvements, he says he has not been persuaded that there has been the required shift in culture to one of shared ownership and joint problem solving. Doesn’t fill you with confidence that things down at the town hall are hunky-dory.

Indeed, the council had to hire barristers – at council taxpayers’ expense – just to draw up legal papers to lay down on how the council and the council-owned Culture Company engage with each other.

Watkinson highlights the importance of councillors, whatever the colours of their rosettes, to work together with officers to sort out the big budget for 2008. Many of the so-called moaners and groaners are critical friends, people who have the best interests of the city at heart.

Difficult decisions need to be taken in 2008, and priorities may have to be re-assessed, says the DA.

So the people moaning about the moaners should concentrate on playing their part to work together for the sake of the city, and perhaps their new-found togetherness will rub off on the rest of us.

Sadly, I fear the politicians will have their sights firmly fixed on the May elections, so it is hard to see one of those “Peace in Our 08 Time” declarations being waved about.

The population of Liverpool will then have its say on what they think of the way they have been governed. I can hardly wait to see what happens to the political landscape of Liverpool in the more important year ever for the city.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/views/liverpool-columnists/columns/2008/01/14/start-at-the-top-64375-20345966/)

Thank you very much Larry - this really did need saying! :handclap:

[Ged]

On the contrary, I wish I had a quid for all the moaners. Glasgow done very well year on year after its CoC, look at the broader picture, having this will bring in further investment and confidence in the city. Imagine we'd have lost it to Birmingham or Newcastle or whoever, imagine the screams then - why didn't we win it, why couldn't we compete... I wouldn't stand next to some of the doom and gloom merchants for fear of getting wet from that great big black cloud they carry around with them. There are 300+ events this year, in fact you'll see that equates almost one for every day of the coming year. I also can't believe that someone so vociferous didn't know the plans for the new park with water features and public areas when visions for it are on practically every forum of this kind in Liverpool.

It was an opening ceromony and that's all, could have been a bit longer in my book and whilst it might not be any harder to play a guitar live on top of the tower or Wellington column than in your front room - you sure need a lot more powerful amp :unibrow:

As long as the people investing time and effort in this year do so with an open mind and vigour (including the spectators) then it will be a success.

[Howie]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Ged, but with the council tax collection in the red by £25million, another £20million to find for Capital of Culture, and 1,400 equal pay claims to be lodged against the authority, I fear that the legacy of 2008 will be further cuts to the services for the most vulnerable in our community. :noid:

[shoney]

curious to know what the 300 events are , do they have any direct interest with the people who are the culture of liverpool, i've asked around and don't seem to get a direct answer, i'm not interested in sculpture, theatre etc, i am interested in history of places, industry,the port, the city, the people of previous eras, the hardship and the good times etc..where i come from and where i'm going, which is my culture

[Howie]

curious to know what the 300 events are

See Liverpool 2008 Programme Download (http://www.liverpool08.com/Images/Liverpool%202008%20calendar_tcm79-108107.pdf) (755.3KB .pdf).

[shoney]

thanks for that, looks like 10% interesting stuff and the remaining stuff is a 50/50 split of ****e mixed with hangers on looking for a grant because no-one is really interested in their work, thats only my opinion though, I like what I like

[Ged]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Ged, but with the council tax collection in the red by £25million, another £20million to find for Capital of Culture, and 1,400 equal pay claims to be lodged against the authority, I fear that the legacy of 2008 will be further cuts to the services for the most vulnerable in our community. :noid:

But not all attributable to CoC - only the 20million shortfall which ok in itself isn't ideal (how much per head? in relation to what may be achieved in the long run)

This could be wiped out in one foul swoop by the chap who wants the land to regenerate the Edge Lane site and kill 2 birds with one stone if it so bothers anyone that much.

[Howie]

This could be wiped out in one foul swoop by the chap who wants the land to regenerate the Edge Lane site and kill 2 birds with one stone if it so bothers anyone that much.

He's playing games Ged. Even this Council won't fall for that stunt.

[Ged]

I just hope equal emphasis is now given in the coming years on giving people in the suburbs housing and amenities they deserve but it always has to start with the centre and work outwards. People in jobs are people off the dole with local council coffers therefore swelled instead of having to find money to to build housing for people already not paying into the system. The council money has to be attributed to the areas where it is now most needed. That can be the true legacy.

[Steven]

He's playing games Ged. Even this Council won't fall for that stunt.

I tried saying "Even this Council won't fall for that stunt."

Very fast 7 times >

Try it yourself and see what happens.http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/Steven1_bucket/Naughties%20and%20Gifs/RollingaboutGif.gif

[Howie]

:D :D :D

True tho!

[geoffrey]

I have to agree with Howie that what Larry Neild says is important.

What kind of regeneration do we want? Lots of jobs in the regeneration industry, flash in the pan property speculation?

What we've got is a council that is so weak and discredited that people like the Edge Lane guy think they can be bounced into making decisions to their advantage. It's public now so they wouldn't get away with it but it shows you the problem.

Serious inward investors aren't stupid. When they look at the city it won't surprise them if a Labour leader is a bit Left wing and that an opposition opposes, that happens everywhere and so it should. But it will bother them that the city's finances and procedures are a mess and that the council are in that hole and still digging .

[Ged]

Some more on Ringo.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/tm_headline=ringo-starr-liverpool-is-in-my-soul-8211-part-of-me%26method=full%26objectid=20343138%26siteid=5006 1-name_page.html



.

[mimng]

I also can't believe that someone so vociferous didn't know the plans for the new park with water features and public areas when visions for it are on practically every forum of this kind in Liverpool.


and just to quote myself:

i would love to stand corrected on any of the above points.

i dont know everything about the capital of culture. i'm glad chavasse park is still gonna be there in some form. it doenst take away from my point about the unneccessary shopping centre that will be next door, of course.

ps does anyone know what the plans are for st johns once the new shopping mall is open? are they gonna level it and build a nice park???

[mimng]

I have to agree with Howie that what Larry Neild says is important.

What kind of regeneration do we want? Lots of jobs in the regeneration industry, flash in the pan property speculation?

agreed!

lets also remember that us 'moaners' are part of the process's natural checks and balances that keep the 'planners' in line, and force them to justify themselves. the 'moaners about the moaners' seem to me to just be people that won't accept that others can have different viewpoints from the official party line.

(oops...think i've just become a 'moaner about the moaners about the moaners'!)

[Steven]

agreed!

lets also remember that us 'moaners' are part of the process's natural checks and balances that keep the 'planners' in line, and force them to justify themselves. the 'moaners about the moaners' seem to me to just be people that won't accept that others can have different viewpoints from the official party line.

(oops...think i've just become a 'moaner about the moaners about the moaners'!)

You have become noted for it. You are as welcome as a fart in a space-suit by myself and my 'imaginary friends.'

[Ged]

Hello mimng. St. John's is getting a revamp too to hopefully bring it into the 21st century. We also have to remember that the Grosvenor development (L1) is nothing to do with CoC, was happening anyway and is all private investment, itself showing confidence in the city. Manchester have boasted about and lived for years on the fact they Have a Harvey Nichols and the new Arndale (because of the IRA Bomb) and the Trafford Centre have been their glory talking points just lately - which together with the MEN arena took scouse £ssss 30 odd miles up the road.

[Ged]

Here's the St. John's precinct link - most of what you're asking about can be searched for on here

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7475&highlight=johns


.

[Libertarian]

and just to quote myself:

i would love to stand corrected on any of the above points.

i dont know everything about the capital of culture. i'm glad chavasse park is still gonna be there in some form. it doenst take away from my point about the unneccessary shopping centre that will be next door, of course.

ps does anyone know what the plans are for st johns once the new shopping mall is open? are they gonna level it and build a nice park???

Well I don't think the new development is uneccessary. It is redeveloping a very poor area of the city centre occupied by a tacky hotel a very tacky 60's car park, the tacky Radio Merseyside building and an Argos building. This development has also breathed new life into the Bluecoat centre providing a massive new art gallery, and new life into a once derelict Hanover St that had been neglected for years. The Grosvenor scheme will mean Liverpool can compete economically with other cities which it has fallen behind for decades under toytown socialist councils.

The redevelopment of St Johns is well documented in another thread, and will be finished by 2012.

[Kev]

One thing that is becoming ever more clearer and doesn't suprise me at all is that at every opportunity the media have chosen to focus on what they know about recent political issues surrounding the organisation of C of C. It doesn't suprise me because they have nothing else to say, they have no affilliations with Liverpool, no interest, as they come from the same crop who encouraged and reinforced negative 80's stereotypes.

The bad old day still exist, the poor attitudes still exist, what a shame.

Maybe its just bad journalism but some of th interviewers have been a joke.

RE: Chavase Park and any other spot that has blighted the city for decades.

Build on them, I for one don't want my kids growing up around rubbish like I did.

[Libertarian]

One thing that is becoming ever more clearer and doesn't suprise me at all is that at every opportunity the media have chosen to focus on what they know about recent political issues surrounding the organisation of C of C. It doesn't suprise me because they have nothing else to say, they have no affilliations with Liverpool, no interest, as they come from the same crop who encouraged and reinforced negative 80's stereotypes.

The bad old day still exist, the poor attitudes still exist, what a shame.

Maybe its just bad journalism but some of th interviewers have been a joke.

RE: Chavase Park and any other spot that has blighted the city for decades.

Build on them, I for one don't want my kids growing up around rubbish like I did.

So right Kev! So many of my peers left Liverpool in the 80's because there was simply nothing here, no work, no decent centre, no culture. When these things arrive people seem to moan about them I really don't know what is wrong with people.

[Steven]

Well said Kev. To some journalists the only news worth reporting is bad news. You can find bad news in any city in any part of this world. Liverpool is under the microsope this year and some scum bag reporters are jumping on the band-wagon to try to take away our glory.
They don't stand a chance 'cos our shoulders are broad enough to shrug them off.

[Gnomie]

curious to know what the 300 events are , do they have any direct interest with the people who are the culture of liverpool, i've asked around and don't seem to get a direct answer, i'm not interested in sculpture, theatre etc, i am interested in history of places, industry,the port, the city, the people of previous eras, the hardship and the good times etc..where i come from and where i'm going, which is my culture

Well put :handclap: thats how i feel

[Ged]

Personally, I don't need the CoC as I visit our free galleries, museums, cathedrals and open spaces such as St. Johns or the Pier Head as a matter of living here, however, it's great so see it showcased for visitors and plenty of 'would be' visitors who now will, boosting the economy too. The Philharmonic Hall, the Everyman, Royal Court, Playhouse are there for anyone who wants them - we should be proud and shout it loud. We've just had the Royal Variety performance and the Turner Prize - not often held outside the capital, the Tate modern is here and Sudley plus great coastline (as seen during the open) If we can't embrace it, how can we moan about journalists with no allegiance to the city. Remember we also had and will have again the great St. Georges Hall History show with loads of regional and district societies airing their wares. The MTV awards will be massive and the conference centre and Arena bookings are going through the roof.

[Libertarian]

Well put :handclap: thats how i feel

There are events linked to our indusrtrial heritage taking place look on the website on the pdf it lists all of them.:034:

[mimng]

Hello mimng. St. John's is getting a revamp too to hopefully bring it into the 21st century. We also have to remember that the Grosvenor development (L1) is nothing to do with CoC, was happening anyway and is all private investment, itself showing confidence in the city. Manchester have boasted about and lived for years on the fact they Have a Harvey Nichols and the new Arndale (because of the IRA Bomb) and the Trafford Centre have been their glory talking points just lately - which together with the MEN arena took scouse £ssss 30 odd miles up the road.

this highlights one of the central misconceptions of the CoC, to my mind. the people of liverpool seem to believe the cranes in the city centre are all motiviated by liverpool winning CoC, but more and more i find out that they would have happened anyway...because of 'confidence in the city' - which equates to 'rich people/organisations identifying more ways to make more money'.

ive never been to the trafford centre, and really dont want to - i can do all my shopping in liverpool, or more frequently, online! (which is increasingly the way people will shop in the future, thereby negating the need for shopping centres...) so - the grosvenor development will provide loads more shops. then st johns will be redeveloped to provide loads more shops (in which i assume smaller, local vendors will be squeezed out to make way for multiple outlets of more multinationals). its the assumption that we all want to be plastic consumers that offends me! and we wonder why the country is in £trillions of personal debt. building new cathedrals to the religion of shopping is not the answer.

as to the MEN - i agree liverpool needed a concert venue so that big bands/artists could actually come to liverpool when they arrange arena tours but remember the echo arena is half the size of the MEN, so the bigger artists will still go 30 miles up the road. it would have been great if it was a football stadium, and could therefore compete with the MEN, but i guess thats another argument...

[Gnomie]

There are events linked to our indusrtrial heritage taking place look on the website on the pdf it lists all of them.:034:

cheers Libertarian :PDT_Piratz_26:

[Howie]

One thing that is becoming ever more clearer and doesn't suprise me at all is that at every opportunity the media have chosen to focus on what they know about recent political issues surrounding the organisation of C of C. It doesn't suprise me because they have nothing else to say, they have no affilliations with Liverpool, no interest, as they come from the same crop who encouraged and reinforced negative 80's stereotypes.

The bad old day still exist, the poor attitudes still exist, what a shame.

Kev

Deeply regrettable as it is, we have a Lib-Dem led Council that is guilty of corruption, incompetence, and appalling financial mismanagement. It is no wonder that the media have picked up on some of these issues as in electing this bunch we have provided them with a stick with which to beat us.

Howie (born here, live here, and will die here).

[mimng]

One thing that is becoming ever more clearer and doesn't suprise me at all is that at every opportunity the media have chosen to focus on what they know about recent political issues surrounding the organisation of C of C.

its because the organisation has been full of in-fighting (which has not been by the fault of the media) which has greatly hindered the planning.

we are in the capital of culture year without an artistic director. is that the fault of the media too?

[Libertarian]

Kev

Deeply regrettable as it is, we have a Lib-Dem led Council that is guilty of corruption, incompetence, and appalling financial mismanagement. It is no wonder that the media have picked up on some of these issues as in electing this bunch we have provided them with a stick with which to beat us.

Howie (born here, live here, and will die here).

Incompetence over the 4th Grace, Storey vs Henshaw and Mathew St yes but corrupt? No thats a very serious charge. I think over the last 10 years the Lib Dem council which won us capital of culture has been a massive improvemmnt on the Marxists who ran the city who landed us with massive debts to swiss banks, a very poor image internationally, a filthy and dilapidated city and mountains of rubbish everywhere led by a very charismatic and somewhat talented (it must be admitted) Degsy.:unibrow: Just a pity his ideology was on the far Left cos i've always admired the mans bravado!!

[mimng]

You have become noted for it. You are as welcome as a fart in a space-suit by myself and my 'imaginary friends.'

some people like the smell of their own farts. i hope you are one of these!

[Libertarian]

this highlights one of the central misconceptions of the CoC, to my mind. the people of liverpool seem to believe the cranes in the city centre are all motiviated by liverpool winning CoC, but more and more i find out that they would have happened anyway...because of 'confidence in the city' - which equates to 'rich people/organisations identifying more ways to make more money'.

ive never been to the trafford centre, and really dont want to - i can do all my shopping in liverpool, or more frequently, online! (which is increasingly the way people will shop in the future, thereby negating the need for shopping centres...) so - the grosvenor development will provide loads more shops. then st johns will be redeveloped to provide loads more shops (in which i assume smaller, local vendors will be squeezed out to make way for multiple outlets of more multinationals). its the assumption that we all want to be plastic consumers that offends me! and we wonder why the country is in £trillions of personal debt. building new cathedrals to the religion of shopping is not the answer.

as to the MEN - i agree liverpool needed a concert venue so that big bands/artists could actually come to liverpool when they arrange arena tours but remember the echo arena is half the size of the MEN, so the bigger artists will still go 30 miles up the road. it would have been great if it was a football stadium, and could therefore compete with the MEN, but i guess thats another argument...


True it is depresssing to think that shopping is now a religion. But I still think that in terms of boosting the economy this development is important and it is providing more than just shops such as cinemas, art galleries, a new home for Radio Merseyside, a chapel for the Quakers, redevelopment of Bluecoat, restaurants, a new public space, a bus station, homes, hotels, and more.


I also wanted the arena to be bigger--but there you go. I didn't want a football stadium there as it would have been out of place.

[Howie]

corrupt? No thats a very serious charge.

Oh there's been more than a fair share of nepotism (favoritism shown to relatives or close friends by those in power) with this bunch. I call that corrupt.

[Libertarian]

Oh there's been more than a fair share of nepotism (favoritism shown to relatives or close friends by those in power) with this bunch. I call that corrupt.

well Joe anderson's charge agaainst Flo Clucas was thrown out, perhaps the Left in Liverpool is guilty of mud slinging out of bitterness at being out of favour with the public for so long?

[Howie]

well Joe anderson's charge agaainst Flo Clucas was thrown out, perhaps the Left in Liverpool is guilty of mud slinging out of bitterness at being out of favour with the public for so long?

I think you'll find that the Standards Board for England found that she had breached the code of conduct but decided to take it no further.

[Ged]

So........what's the alternative - do nothing and stagnate, no, not just stagnate but be positiively left behind. I don't care if it's big businesses putting their money in - if they weren't and it was going up the road we'd be moaning too - so come on, be objective but give alternatives then?

Peel is a big business and they're revamping the central dock area - should we have lost this to another Salford Quays?

Shop work might be lower paid work but is better than no work since Tate and lyle aren't going to build another factory here - again, I ask for the alternatives. Nepotism doesn't happen with Labour or the Tories either then? Political agendas shouldn't come into it, I find them all as corrupt as each other.

Outsiders investing and outsider entraupenerialism is what helped make Liverpool great in the past - don't knock it, welcome it - some would still have the Albert dock full of sludge I tell you.

[Kev]

Kev

Deeply regrettable as it is, we have a Lib-Dem led Council that is guilty of corruption, incompetence, and appalling financial mismanagement. It is no wonder that the media have picked up on some of these issues as in electing this bunch we have provided them with a stick with which to beat us.

Howie (born here, live here, and will die here).

I know Howie, although this political side of Liverpool is something of a weak spot with me. I'm gaining more understanding of it all though.

Kev [Liverpool born, bred and still breeding :PDT10 ]


its because the organisation has been full of in-fighting (which has not been by the fault of the media) which has greatly hindered the planning.

we are in the capital of culture year without an artistic director. is that the fault of the media too?

..and neither is it the fault of ordinary Liverpool people who still take the brunt of it in the face of the easy, lack of any effort reporting who are made to feel somewhat responsible for it all.

[Paul D]

Liverpool will be watched by Billions around the World this year so somethings special happening,1.5 Billion for the MTV Awards,650 Million for the National,450 Million for the British Open,300 Million for the Peoples Opening,the McCartney concert going out to a Global audience.(any city would kill for that)It's estimated a Million will come to Liverpool for the Tall ships alone and the Mathew Street festival usually has about 350,000 people in attendance and that's besides everything else that's going on.Why not take in the atmosphere all these people will create in the city instead of moaning? Why not get involved,There's Africa Oye,the Hub Festival,The Billenial,Honda Speedboats on the Mersey,a top Bike race finishing here,10k runs,yacht racing,The World Firefighter Games,a Top Boxing tournament,a Top Squash Tournament,concerts at the arena,Beer festivals,Top art,conferences at the arena will add to the feel and buzz of the city,etc.Take advantage of our beautiful coastline,Formby,Ainsdale,Crosby,West Kirkby,Moreton,get out there and do it instead of watching T.V.If you sit at home moaning then everthing will pass you by and Capital of Culture will mean nothing to you,get out there and soak up the atmosphere and stop being so miserable,some people make a career out of complaining.

[Ged]

Please Paul, you will disillusion so many people putting all that good news :rolleyes:

[Howie]

I agree with you up to a point Paul (even though many of the events listed, such as the Mathew St. Festival, would have happened regardless of CoC). However, just because it is the CoC year doesn't mean we have to overlook the failings of the City Council - they should be held to account.

[Ged]

Yes they should, especially the Robin Archer debacle and yes some of these thing would have happened anyway but now with more vigour and eyes on them not to mention probably better attended due to the influx of tourists expected - try getting a top hotel room - they've all been booked up solid, Macca at Anfield will be awesome - yes, other cities would have killed for that and killed for him being one of their own.

[Paul D]

I agree with you up to a point Paul (even though many of the events listed, such as the Mathew St. Festival, would have happened regardless of CoC). However, just because it is the CoC year doesn't mean we have to overlook the failings of the City Council - they should be held to account.

Fair point Howie but I'm sure the national media will do a fine job at that.You're right a lot of events would be going ahead whether we won CoC or not but now they've taken on a different feeling.It just shows you that we have a great list of things to do which many sadly don't participate in.That Halloween Lantern Carnival I attended this year was fantastic and if it took place at the other end of the M62 it would be all over the T.V..Most people here aren't even aware it exists which is why you have to search these things out,they wont come to your door,which is the point I'm making.

[mimng]

So........what's the alternative - do nothing and stagnate, no, not just stagnate but be positiively left behind. I don't care if it's big businesses putting their money in - if they weren't and it was going up the road we'd be moaning too - so come on, be objective but give alternatives then?


Outsiders investing and outsider entraupenerialism is what helped make Liverpool great in the past - don't knock it, welcome it - some would still have the Albert dock full of sludge I tell you.

i think you'll find slavery made liverpool 'great' (read: rich) in the past, and i dont agree with slavery either!

of course, im being slightly unfair, before i get flamed to death. and it is not just the fault of liverpool that it is going down the gentrification route. it is a national disease, an increasingly global western disease, based on high finance and public debt, which is a timebomb waiting to go off.

again i ask, what is the point of new shopping centres when in 20 years time we will do all our shopping online, (instead of insulting each other on messageboards)? if liverpool was really looking to the future, it would have massive IT infrastructure development, council-led fibre-optic cable laying, a campaigning for increased devolution from london with the aim of a devolved merseyside parliament, a proper recycling and even sustainable energy-creation policy (cover the unused building by lime st with solar panels rather than a big advertising hoarding!), less ghettoisation of different ethnic groups. these are proper revolutionary ideas, we do not need MORE SHOPS!

[Howie]

you have to search these things out,they wont come to your door,which is the point I'm making.

True. I can't wait for the Gustav Klimt exhibition at the Tate at the end of May.

[Ged]

Well i've not insulted anybody on this forum (much more than a messageboard mimng), maybe you feel you have?

I've directed you already to 2 links via the forum search engine/facility on here. You'd do well to check out the slavery one before putting your foot into believing that old gem/myth too because it pays to be reliably informed first before making sweeping statements (I trust that isn't counted as being insulting)

:)

[mimng]

ged

no, you havent insulted me! i was referring to other who make spacesuit remarks, or accuse me of creating this identity when i already have another one, which i havent done.

you cant deny that liverpool was made rich from slavery though, surely? no matter - that is the past, and i already regret bringing it up.

[Ged]

Then you need to inform yourself, not being patronising but just so that you don't repeat the message to others. We had some of the most vociferous abolishionists. Slaves never entered here but for a handful, it was the traded goods that Liverpool made some - not all of its riches from and only for the very few. Look at who put the money into Liverpool's civic buildings. Brewers like Andrew Barclay Walker, William Brown whom the street was renamed after - Picton - look at the great architects like Alfred Waterhouse, Herbert J. Rowse - look at the myths that claim certain monuments are about slavery when they in fact have nothing to do with them. Study our trade at the time with Ireland and the Isle of Man, that's where the lions share of incoming monies came from and then read White Gold.

[Libertarian]

i think you'll find slavery made liverpool 'great' (read: rich) in the past, and i dont agree with slavery either!

of course, im being slightly unfair, before i get flamed to death. and it is not just the fault of liverpool that it is going down the gentrification route. it is a national disease, an increasingly global western disease, based on high finance and public debt, which is a timebomb waiting to go off.

again i ask, what is the point of new shopping centres when in 20 years time we will do all our shopping online, (instead of insulting each other on messageboards)? if liverpool was really looking to the future, it would have massive IT infrastructure development, council-led fibre-optic cable laying, a campaigning for increased devolution from london with the aim of a devolved merseyside parliament, a proper recycling and even sustainable energy-creation policy (cover the unused building by lime st with solar panels rather than a big advertising hoarding!), less ghettoisation of different ethnic groups. these are proper revolutionary ideas, we do not need MORE SHOPS!

we went down the loony Left road in the 80's. I remember when Liverpool was a 'nuclear free zone' and someone changed the sign to 'jobs free zone' that said it all really.

If on line shopping is gonna replace the high street why hasn't it done so already? Most people have computers. That is as fictitous as the idea that the internet would replace books which clearly hasn't happened.

A Merseyside parliament? i don't think so sounds a bit like the failed Merseyside County Council which was appropriately abolished for being a failure.

Liverpool wasn't buuilt on slavery this is becoming a received urban politically correct myth. althought slaves were brought here it is wrong to say that the wealth of the city was built on them it was built on the Empire.

[mimng]

Then you need to inform yourself, not being patronising but just so that you don't repeat the message to others. We had some of the most vociferous abolishionists. Slaves never entered here but for a handful, it was the traded goods that Liverpool made some - not all of its riches from and only for the very few. Look at who put the money into Liverpool's civic buildings. Brewers like Andrew Barclay Walker, William Brown whom the street was renamed after - Picton - look at the great architects like Alfred Waterhouse, Herbert J. Rowse - look at the myths that claim certain monuments are about slavery when they in fact have nothing to do with them. Study our trade at the time with Ireland and the Isle of Man, that's where the lions share of incoming monies came from and then read White Gold.

slave ships left liverpool for africa, more than anywhere else at the height of slavery, if i remember my trip to the slavery exhibition correctly. they then went from africa to america, then came back from america to liverpool with goods, bought from the sale of slaves. so liverpool profitted from slavery, without a doubt. you are correct in saying we had some of the most vociferous abolishionists, and rightly so. where there is evil, good people must stand up.

i liken the current wage-slavery through subordination to unaccountable multinational companies, as we increasingly see in the 'gentrification' of liverpool and the whole of the UK, as akin to the slavery of africans over 200 years ago. i believe history will view unelected high finance with the same moral repugnance as the original slave traders. and once again, good peoplemust stand up to oppose it.

[Libertarian]

slave ships left liverpool for africa, more than anywhere else at the height of slavery, if i remember my trip to the slavery exhibition correctly. they then went from africa to america, then came back from america to liverpool with goods, bought from the sale of slaves. so liverpool profitted from slavery, without a doubt. you are correct in saying we had some of the most vociferous abolishionists, and rightly so. where there is evil, good people must stand up.

i liken the current wage-slavery through subordination to unaccountable multinational companies, as we increasingly see in the 'gentrification' of liverpool and the whole of the UK, as akin to the slavery of africans over 200 years ago. i believe history will view unelected high finance with the same moral repugnance as the original slave traders. and once again, good peoplemust stand up to oppose it.

I have heard it all now the regeneration of Liverpool is akin to slavery:unibrow::unibrow::unibrow:LOL

[Ged]

Yes, we are a port, we love to beat ourselves up over this, it helps make us high up in the Political correctness tables too but even the slave trade tour guide has some things wrong (which has been mentioned elsewhere here/on another forum too) Bristol, London and even other countries like Spain and Portugal also had many many slaves ships trading - there was never a leg of the journey that brought slaves here, only collecting them from African chiefs who had rounded opposing tribes up but that's another story.

We could say having a myriad of Eastern European workers over here which lowers the standard of pay is current slavery which only seems to affect the indigenous population - not that you can blame the workers, just the greedy bosses who don't pay them the same.

[mimng]

we went down the loony Left road in the 80's. I remember when Liverpool was a 'nuclear free zone' and someone changed the sign to 'jobs free zone' that said it all really.

If on line shopping is gonna replace the high street why hasn't it done so already? Most people have computers. That is as fictitous as the idea that the internet would replace books which clearly hasn't happened.

A Merseyside parliament? i don't think so sounds a bit like the failed Merseyside County Council which was appropriately abolished for being a failure.

Liverpool wasn't buuilt on slavery this is becoming a received urban politically correct myth. althought slaves were brought here it is wrong to say that the wealth of the city was built on them it was built on the Empire.

empire is the same as slavery! how can you have an empire without enslaving whole other countries????

internet shopping is increasing year on year, and people are spending less and less on the high st. this is an established fact that is worrying multinational companies greatly.

i am not a member of the loony left, as you so amply discredit me, i just think people should have self-determination (ie no empires). devolution is working very well in scotland, and it will conitnue to spread. devon and cornwall will increase their push for devolution, and i can see city-states as the next logical step in this. the independance that liverpool has from the british national psyche makes it a prime candidate for this. maybe the 80s was too soon?

[Libertarian]

slave ships left liverpool for africa, more than anywhere else at the height of slavery, if i remember my trip to the slavery exhibition correctly. they then went from africa to america, then came back from america to liverpool with goods, bought from the sale of slaves. so liverpool profitted from slavery, without a doubt. you are correct in saying we had some of the most vociferous abolishionists, and rightly so. where there is evil, good people must stand up.

i liken the current wage-slavery through subordination to unaccountable multinational companies, as we increasingly see in the 'gentrification' of liverpool and the whole of the UK, as akin to the slavery of africans over 200 years ago. i believe history will view unelected high finance with the same moral repugnance as the original slave traders. and once again, good peoplemust stand up to oppose it.

Under the DICTAATORSHIP OF THE PROLETARIAT the Soviet Union was a nightmare for the people who lived in it, sure they never had shops or choices to make, they lived in a grey soulless world which they couldn't wait to throw off in 1989.

[Ged]

Some of those other countries of our then Empire were quite happy and proud to be so and some still haven't given it up - think of the ones that are now built up and benefitted from it too but yes I get your drift by and large.

[Libertarian]

empire is the same as slavery! how can you have an empire without enslaving whole other countries????

internet shopping is increasing year on year, and people are spending less and less on the high st. this is an established fact that is worrying multinational companies greatly.

i am not a member of the loony left, as you so amply discredit me, i just think people should have self-determination (ie no empires). devolution is working very well in scotland, and it will conitnue to spread. devon and cornwall will increase their push for devolution, and i can see city-states as the next logical step in this. the independance that liverpool has from the british national psyche makes it a prime candidate for this. maybe the 80s was too soon?

I'm not a pc apologist for the empire, for sure I don't want it back but it brought some good things to the people it civilised.
Devolution was brought about by Tony Blair far from a lefty but it does not mean independence they are still part of the UK.

[mimng]

it seems we've gone very far off-topic! i will no longer post here, but am willing to continue any further discussion with any members by private message.

thanks again for the freedom of speech

[Libertarian]

it seems we've gone very far off-topic! i will no longer post here, but am willing to continue any further discussion with any members by private message.

thanks again for the freedom of speech

Well you are entitled to your view and I respect your right to make it.

[Gnomie]

What made this city great was its people

[Ged]

Well mimng, I hope you change your mind and do continue to post here because opposing views and an open mind are not bad things and that goes for both sides.

[lindylou]

well, it is always good to have debate - as long as no one get's insulted.

[john]

I'm not a pc apologist for the empire, for sure I don't want it back but it brought some good things to the people it civilised.
Devolution was brought about by Tony Blair far from a lefty but it does not mean independence they are still part of the UK.

but it brought some good things to the people it civilised like VD, Measles, Smallpox, Christianity :rolleyes:

[mr mcmoof]

Look I'm not gonna get personal about this. as it happens I didn't go because its not really my thing. Opening ceremonies tend to be plasticy don't they whether its the olympics or commonwealth games. The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic at the Echo arena though last night are an example of deep real culture and the fact that they played next to bands like the Farm or the Zutons --local lads shows how high culture and popular culture can interact seemlessly. I didn't see any references to the Met Quarter or shopping in the events. By the way I think it wrong that the council tax payer is picking up part of the bill for these events too, but when the elections come you have the chance to vote the people wwho make these decisons out! Part of the freedoms of living ina plasticy democracy.

I'm not trying to personal, far from it. I don't come to forums to argue, just debate.

As for voting for better representatives... Find me a mainstream forward looking, social democratic party that is willing to question the principles of free market fundamentalism and corporate rule, and I'll vote for em for sure!

[mr mcmoof]

I'm not a pc apologist for the empire, for sure I don't want it back but it brought some good things to the people it civilised.
Devolution was brought about by Tony Blair far from a lefty but it does not mean independence they are still part of the UK.

Civilised?

The very concept of civilisation is subjective. The Roman Empire saw itself as "civilised" and all others as "barbarian", but any modern examination of Roman ethics and that of, say, the "barbarian" celts, will quickly challenge that preconception. The same goes for the British Empire of the past, and the American Empire today.

Tacitus (Roman historian on the invasion of Britain):
--------------------------------------------------

"Robbers of the world, having by their universal plunder exhausted the land, they rifle the deep. If the enemy be rich, they are rapacious; if he be poor, they lust for dominion; neither the east nor the west has been able to satisfy them. Alone among men they covet with equal eagerness poverty and riches. To robbery, slaughter, plunder, they give the lying name of freedom; they make a wilderness and call it peace."

Sound familiar?

[mr mcmoof]

well, it is always good to have debate - as long as no one get's insulted.

Hear, hear lindylou!

[mr mcmoof]

Quote To me, the CoC opening ceremony was nothing more than a feeble attempt at justifying all the damage this meaningless title has brought to Liverpool, thanks to the team of incompetents charged with its supervision. The Capital of Culture team have managed to finish the work Hitler's mob started back in the 1940s. Between all the different construction contractors and redevelopment agencies, half of the city's architectural heritage has been demolished to build DROSS in its place

Like Paradise street where the architectural gems such as the Moat House Hotel and the 60's bus station have been demolished. A very tacky street. Or Whitechapel ok a very bland mall has been built but its an improvement on the tacky 70's post office with mirrors on the front.

Sure, I accept that not every CoC construction project is worthless, or a retrograde step. But there's plenty of good old buildings all over Liverpool that could have been renovated, rather than demolished and replaced, or simply left to carry on rotting...

And where are the free activity centres, youth clubs, sports facilities, music practice rooms, art centres? Just one of those built for some of our younger and poorer neighbours to make use of would go a long way to redeeming the CoC year for me.

[Libertarian]

Sure, I accept that not every CoC construction project is worthless, or a retrograde step. But there's plenty of good old buildings all over Liverpool that could have been renovated, rather than demolished and replaced, or simply left to carry on rotting...

And where are the free activity centres, youth clubs, sports facilities, music practice rooms, art centres? Just one of those built for some of our younger and poorer neighbours to make use of would go a long way to redeeming the CoC year for me.

In order to renovate empty buildings you have to stimulate the private sector which capital of culture will do. I agree more local and community arts based projects should be included in Capital of culture but looking at the site before I saw one in Huyton and others in similar areas.

[Libertarian]

Unemployed guaranteed interviews
Liverpool's £1bn regeneration project is staging a massive recruitment drive and guaranteeing interviews to the city's unemployed.
The Liverpool One scheme covers 42 hectares of the city centre and will include shops, offices and apartments.

It is creating about 5,000 jobs, from administration to security, with full training provided.

This week it is staging six events across Liverpool looking to meet potential employees.

On Monday the road show starts in Toxteth at the Kummba Imani centre on Princes Road and the local town hall.

Later in the week events will be staged at The Empire Theatre, Garston urban village, Walton sports centre and Kensington life bank


Just shows how 'ordinary' people are starting to benefit from private enterprise

[Libertarian]

I live in Bootle and it only took a little effort to see whats going on locally and not just in Lpool city centre


Sefton's packed programme of 2008 fun Jan 10 2008




by Lloyd Jones, Bootle Times


A PACKED programme of events and activities to celebrate Capital of Culture year has been announced by Sefton Council.

The borough has been preparing for 2008 through the Express Sefton! programme, which has launched a fantastic range of events and activities.

Express Sefton! was launched last January and has delivered a number of successful events and projects, including the Southport Comedy Week, Bootle Comedy and Music Festival, the Sefton Festival of Literature and much more.

Young people from across the borough enjoyed a summer filled with watersports activities in a bid to become one of six local people to take up the chance of a lifetime and be part of the Tall Ships Race in July.

The Sail Train initiative will give a select few the chance to spend six weeks on a Tall Ship in a trip from Liverpool to Norway and the Netherlands. Candidates for the experience will go through a rigorous selection process before embarking on a training scheme to prepare them for their ship trip.In addition, to Sefton's exciting line-up of existing events, such as the Southport Air Show, British Musical Fireworks Championships, Summer Classics, International Jazz Festival and the world-famous Grand National, the borough will host the 2008 golf Open Championship at Royal Birkdale course.


Another exciting event planned for 2008 includes the Sefton Schools Opera Project, which has seen a specially-written opera, ITOKU, by Lin Marsh. More than 500 young people from across the borough will perform the opera, which is expected to be premiered at Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral on February 27.


Peter Sandman, Sefton Council's events manager, said: "Express Sefton! has been designed to encourage people across the borough to get involved in a range of activities which will define the area's cultural identity throughout Liverpool's reign in 2008.


"Throughout 2007 we delivered a fantastic line-up of events and activities for the whole community to get involved with, including excellent new events such as the Bootle Music and Comedy Festival and the inaugural Sefton Festival of Literature, which is a two-year programme celebrating the written word.


"We hope that people will really get into the Capital of Culture 2008 celebrations and enjoy what Sefton has to offer during this unique cultural year, helping us to define Sefton's cultural identity."


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Bootle Times Bootle News Article

[Andy Bonner]

Granada just reported the show at the Echo arena and never mentioned who the Muscial acts where!

Actually, we carried full reports from the Arena on Saturday, Sunday and Monday - and each one mentioned the acts. (I know, I've just watched them all again to double check.)

[Max]

Actually, we carried full reports from the Arena on Saturday, Sunday and Monday - and each one mentioned the acts. (I know, I've just watched them all again to double check.)

Are yours the Granada reports?

When It was on yesterday they only mentioned that as support acts and not their names, they only mentioned Ringo's name.

[Howie]

Business booms in Capital of Culture launch
Jan 15 2008
by Neil Hodgson, Liverpool Echo

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolecho/jan2008/0/9/6B4FF17C-C3E4-362A-20CDCFE144A74429.jpg

LIVERPOOL’S leisure industry enjoyed record takings for the Capital of Culture launch parties.

Some 50,000 people watched the spectacular People’s Opening at St George’s Plateau on Friday.

And 10,600 concert goers were at the ECHO Arena on Saturday night to watch Liverpool The Musical.

Nearby bars and restaurants reported record figures.

Although city centre hotels were not fully booked out, hoteliers said they welcomed far more guests than they normally would in the middle of January.

Tourism experts believe the influx of visitors and trade would increase as the city’s cultural programme unfolds over the coming year.

Albert Dock Company director Joe Edge said: “We enjoyed a momentous weekend during the city’s culture launch with guests visiting the Dock from Liverpool and around the world.”

He said visitor numbers across the entire Dock were up over Friday and Saturday.

Restaurants and bars in the city also reported brisk trading.

Japanese eaterie Sapporo, Italian restaurant Il Forno and Indian specialist Mayur, all in Duke Street’s East Village, were significantly busier than usual.

David Daly from the Liverpool Hoteliers Association said: “The weekend was not as buoyant as we thought it might be, although hotels in the immediate vicinity of the ECHO Arena did OK.

“The rest of the hotels had rooms available on both Friday and Saturday.

“But for a January weekend, when we are traditionally quiet, there was an uplift.

“But the best time to judge it will be in the summer and autumn.”

Tourism officials are also predicting great things for Liverpool on the back of enormous media attention at the launch weekend from all around the world.

Martin King, tourism director at the city’s Mersey Partnership tourist board, said: “The interest in Liverpool during the weekend and since has been phenomenal.

“Reports and images from the army of international media who covered the launch events have appeared all over the world. We picked up 443 stories from around the world in just 72 hours since Friday.

“In terms of raising awareness of Liverpool as a destination, we have seen a huge volume of coverage, which we are ready to translate into increased visitor numbers throughout 2008.”

A Liverpool Chamber of Commerce spokeswoman said: “Early reports suggest a great success for the city. The majority of city centre hotels were fully booked and licensees report a good weekend’s trading.”

Source: Liverpool Echo (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/01/15/business-booms-in-capital-of-culture-launch-100252-20351285/)

[Steven]

Cheers for that positive info Howie,
We all knew it was a huge success but it's great to see it in writing. There have been one or two negative remarks about the opening but I believe that our shoulders are broad enough to bear them.
After my little chat on Radio Merseyside (and Plugs for Our Forum) I have been invited down to do a longer 'chat.' http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/Steven1_bucket/Naughties%20and%20Gifs/biglaugh.gif

I'm startingto get sick of the sound of my own voice.

[Howie]

Personally I made a substantial contribution to the good weekend’s trading for the licensees. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Andy Bonner]

Are yours the Granada reports?

When It was on yesterday they only mentioned that as support acts and not their names, they only mentioned Ringo's name.

Hi Max.
Yep - I did countless pieces on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday about the opening weekend. I certainly mentioned who was on at the arena on Saturday, Sunday and Monday. I can only think you caught one of the short bulletins where we wouldn't have had time to go through all the artists. But I can assure you they did get mentions and we (quite rightly) gave 08 lots of airtime.
Cheers

Andy

[Howie]

Production work for 08 launch musical earns national acclaim
Monday, 21 January 2008

http://www.how-do.co.uk/images/stories/lennon.jpg

The production work undertaken by Mocha and Sparkle to stage 'Liverpool: The Musical' for the opening 08 event has, it seems, been well received nationally.

The two Liverpool companies between them created 90 minutes of film for the opening events for the European Capital of Culture celebrations and in parallel the launch event for the new Echo Arena.

The films featured a mixture of archive content and original film and animation and in some observers' opinion proved to be the most simulating aspect of the launch events.

http://www.how-do.co.uk/images/stories/victoria.jpg

The Stage magazine's review said: "The use of video footage as a backdrop to proceedings was especially emotive, delivering the city's message forcefully without ever forcing down anybody's throat" while the New Statesman tactfully referred to "…Arresting images."

The Times correspondent, Richard Morrison, was less circumspect with his comment that "What saved the show was its high-tech slickness, the visual element was brazen and breathtaking." He then proceeded to award the event 4 out of 5.

Phil Halpin, director of production at Mocha told How-Do that the films weren't available yet "for public consumption as yet but watch this space."

www.mocha.tv
www.sparklemedia.co.uk

Source: How-Do (http://www.how-do.co.uk/north-west-media-news/other-media/production-work-for-08-launch-musical-earns-national-acclaim-200801211707/)