Capital of Culture Opening 300m eyes on Liverpool [Archive]

Max

01-11-2008, 10:42 PM

Didn't get any photos. I know I should of went earlier but I didn't realise that until I got there, sometimes stuff In my mind doesn't kick In till It happens. Plus my aspergers Is a nightmare when having to speak. :PDT_Xtremez_42:

Went down but was so crowed and I have difficulties communicating so I just used my size to walk through when I was being squashed and stupid families using the baby excuse to swear at people to move was disgusting.

There was chavs just standing around being annoying to get through too.

I just got fed up and once walking through people felt better when some tripped when I bumped my way through.

They should of held It somewhere else, city centre streets get too crowed for moving around even when emergency services need to.

I feel like being a pushy annoying person, these kind of people seem more privileged or the non popular ones still get their way.

Ringo's song Is **** too. He's only popular and liked because he's a Beatle. Liverpool won't acknowledge other musical talent for events or the capital of culture unless there a Beatle.

Not being funny here either but there was Insane amounts of overweight people too. It's becoming another America over here with that stuff.

The Capital Of Cultures bull****, there only looking after the popular places that are already looked after.

A.D.W

01-11-2008, 10:57 PM

There was chavs just standing around being annoying to get through too.

Why do those ragamuffins have to be so loud?! I ended up on the St John's carpark.

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

ChrisGeorge

01-11-2008, 11:02 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news/uk/video/144000/bb/144347_16x9_bb.asx?ad=1&ct=50

Thanks, Kev! That was great. Having trouble though accessing the other URL with Ringo's single which only seems to go to a pic of the man from the Dingle.

Chris

Max

01-11-2008, 11:03 PM

I went up St Johns carpark too for a bit but too many people there to get to the front to get shots.

Funny when people climbed up the posts that had the St Johns Carpark sign on, would of been fun to sit up there but would of been told to get down.

Max

01-11-2008, 11:09 PM

That event was too small for the city centre I reckon.

Couldn't they of used a huge park to launch 08 like Princess park since Ringo's from Toxteth?

Max

01-11-2008, 11:14 PM

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=17642568#post17642568

Some 08 shots by Kennyrouge are posted.

I definately applaud him for getting shots due to how hard It was to get any.

Last Of The Timelords

01-11-2008, 11:39 PM

I'm sorry but tonight was a total nightmare, a dangerous nightmare, from start to finish.

Firstly, despite the fact that the 25,000+ people attending the concert have been told all week "let the train take the strain" - it seems the actual management of the City Line trains weren't listening.

I headed into town at about 6pm on a two coach train that, even by the time it'd reached the station I got on at (miles away from Lime Street) was dangerously overcrowded. So much so in fact that ours was the last station the crew allowed people onto the train.

We stopped at 6 or 7 totally packed out stations and didn't allow a single person onto the train. I spoke to the young lady guard on the train who told me that the trains had been packed since about 2pm, but that none were larger carriages/more coaches etc beacause the train company hadn't planned for the event.

Terrible.

Then we get to the actual event itself.

I'd like to write what I thought of the actual event but sadly I didn't see any of it.

We left Lime Street and walked around the front of the station, at road level and found a nice spot, along the wall below the shops, not too far along so as to avoid the main throng.

Slowly the crowd started to build which was exciting at first. Then things started getting a little more serious. People were getting pushed over and crushed by the sheer numbers of people trying to make their way towards centre stage. Then, about about 1940, everyone came to a total standstill - and no-one could move, even though more and more people were pouring into the crowd.

There wasn't a steward or a police officer in sight - anywhere - and absolutely no crowd control/safety.

The final straw was a bloke who basically pushed people over, and then stood on them as he marauded his way along the road, swearing about people with kids and generally being a total tool. He tried to maraud past me and met a rather solid fist of mine which accidentally seemed to hit his ribs to much applause from the people around me. He soon stopped.

However, the people were still being crammed onto Lime Street, kids around where I was were crying and panicing, and things started to get badly out of hand. So I made my move back towards Lime Street, as politely as possible, followed by about 3 women with their kids and a couple of pensioners, all of whom were upset and scared, and using me as a kind of battering ram - I was glad to help.

The crush extended to Skelhorne Street where our escape from it was blocked, amazingly, by an immovable metal fence erected for the evening. Still no stewards or any form of crowd control.

Now I realise a lot of people were expected for this event, but surely some sort of risk assesment, or even crowd control should have been in place, somewhere?

I also realise that people may say I'm being negative, and shallow, and moaning, that I'm a disgrace to Liverpool and I'm talking out of me bum.

But trust me, I know a little bit about event management and crowd control - the situation today was absolutely stupid.

And extremely dangerous.

A.D.W

01-11-2008, 11:47 PM

I'm sorry but tonight was a total nightmare, a dangerous nightmare, from start to finish.

Well said LotT. I also see they closed Lime Street at the end of the event! I also noticed the Central Station was mobbed as well and the police where not allowing people into the station.

:PDT_Xtremez_12:

Max

01-11-2008, 11:49 PM

Oh yeah I saw Lime Street locking certain entrances which seemed stupid and dangerous considering the size of the crowds, It would help to leave them open.

I;m pleased and jealous you got to smack some nutter mate. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

There was more stewards guiding cars than looking after the crowds I agree with you.

Anyone who says your a disgrace is a sissy hippy anyway which means there thoughts are Invalid.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

The manners on families were horrible and what was with them to bring prams? Some were swearing and shouting there babies where having panic attacks.

To let off some steam I made a thread on another forum I visit questioning Ringo Starr's morality.

Last Of The Timelords

01-11-2008, 11:50 PM

I;m pleased and jealous you got to smack some nutter mate. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

An accident of course. Ahem.

wallasey

01-11-2008, 11:55 PM

The event is live on BBC News 24

I was lead to believe this, only to find that they would occasionally hop back to Liverpool in-between reports and interviews concerning all things politics. However interesting and enthralling current affairs are, If I am told that the opening event is to be shown on News 24, I expect it to be shown on news 24. Not small snippits! BBCi didnt have the event coverage either.

If anyone recalls correctly, the home comming of LFC saw practically uninterrupted coverage along most of the route of the tour.

Radio Merseyside had reasonably good commentary; obviously not as good as being there and seeing it for yourself.

Max

01-11-2008, 11:58 PM

Lol.

I know this sounds ego like but I was suprised how much I stood out in some of the crowd, I expected to see alot more taller people.

I'm still feeling the squashed feeling now.

People were drinking alcohol on the streets too which Is illegal and can't people do without a ciggy In big crowds?

Max

01-12-2008, 12:12 AM

A.D.W

01-12-2008, 12:30 AM

A quick video of the crowds -
Lime Street 11th January 2008 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UVTzC8jVQmo).

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

geoffrey

01-12-2008, 01:04 AM

However interesting and enthralling current affairs are, If I am told that the opening event is to be shown on News 24, I expect it to be shown on news 24. Not small snippits! BBCi didnt have the event coverage either.

On the BBC1 lunchtime news yesterday they said at the half way point where they do a trailer for the local news that News 24 would not be carrying it for 'contractual reasons' but the story wasn't on when they did the local news proper at the end of the broadcast.

This might be something to do with the compromise

naked lilac

01-12-2008, 02:32 AM

Wow.. It sure sounds like it was a nightmare how your posts all have read.. :PDT_Xtremez_12:Thats crazy about bringing babies and prams to such an event.. Just outrageous!
Max.. you have made me laugh with some of your posts..especially the Ringo interview.. He did look rediculous.. and in another interview Kev posted.. all he could say..was HE didn't live there anymore.. Like it was beneath him.. So boo hoo to him...
But, please Max.. LOL...NOT all Americans are fat..:rolleyes: maybe the alcohol there contributes to the people being. FAT..:unibrow::PDT_Aliboronz_24: LOL..Thats' a whole other subject.. lack of exercise maybe? LOL...:PDT_Aliboronz_24:
Anyway, Everyone who even ventured to view this historic event... JUST remember.. YA ONLY LIVE ONCE.. and so does 08... So thanks from around the world to ya, for showing us some Liverpool.... ALOHA.... and PEACE...:snf (41)::handclap:

ChrisGeorge

01-12-2008, 04:50 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFgMqLLjII&feature=related

He still can't escape talking like he Is still narrating Thomas The Tank Engine.

I hope many more forget about him like he pretends to say.:PDT_Piratz_26:

A bit cynical there, young Max. Thanks for the YouTube link which got me to the associated videos with his "Liverpool 08" single. I'll be getting the CD tonight as part of my birthday gifts -- my wife Donna and my Mum are going to Tio Pepe's Spanish restaurant near where my Mum lives and I will be opening me gifts there.

Hope the concert at the new stadium goes well tonight. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Chris

Kev

01-12-2008, 09:21 AM

Spectacular Capital of Culture show launches Liverpool on world stage

Jan 12 2008 by Samantha Parker, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolpost/jan2008/2/7/6B3A9475-BC74-67E9-1BCE52C09B87C7BD.jpg
Capital of culture opening

IT’S official, our Capital of Culture year is here – and what a way for it to begin. An estimated 50,000 people flooded St George’s Plateau last night for the spectacular 40-minute opening event which included acrobats, choirs, school children and of course, Ringo Starr.

The night started with a countdown from 30 to zero when 2008 exploded above St George’s Hall in fire writing.

There were laughs from the crowd when the MC cried: “This is the moment when the Big Dig became the Big Gig.”

Daring acrobats flew through the air attached by cable to a 150ft crane as a container labelled “precious cargo” transported the Mayor of Liverpool, Cllr Paul Clark, and other famous Liverpool faces including Heidi Range from the Sugababes, The Farm, Marc Almond, and Liz McClarnon from Atomic Kitten.

The showpiece was projected from all around St George’s plateau with performers air-guitaring and drumming from a fantastic stage comprising the top of St George’s Hall, the Empire Theatre and a sole guitarist braving the dizzy heights of the Radio City tower.

Ringo joined in with a solo drum piece to great cheers from the crowds below.

Two giant projection screens depicted the history and achievements of the city, aided by abseilers who had the audience captivated.

The night was illuminated with fireworks let off throughtout the performance on all sides.

Up and coming Liverpool band The Wombats sang their new single “Moving To New York” - but Liverpool was undoubtedly the place people wanted to be last night.

The evening was rounded off with Ringo and Dave Stewart singing his nostalgic new single, Liverpool 8.

Cllr Warren Bradley, the leader of Liverpool council, said: “Tonight was a fabulous opening.

“What a great way to kick start the year long programme of more than 350 Capital of Culture events.

“There is a great buzz about Liverpool and I think tonight reflected that.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolpost/jan2008/5/7/6B63820D-E915-2D4F-7609AE063369E02F.jpg

“Ringo appearing was a tremendous coup and you could tell he went down a storm with the crowd.

“There has also been a worldwide global audience of millions, with TV cameras sending out a powerful, positive message about our amazing city.”

Martin King, director of tourism at The Mersey Partnership, said: “We’ve arrived! Capital of Culture 2008 is well and truly underway. Nowhere in the world can offer what we can in the coming year – and very, very few cities in the world could put on a show like tonight’s to get it all going.

“It’s been a fantastic night for the city and region, and it is just the start.

“Liverpool is really ready to welcome the rest of the world.”

The vast majoprity of the crowd seemed delighted with the opening.

Linda Karey, 43, from Allerton, said: “I thought it was really good. Ringo was good and I liked the Wombats’ performance also. I liked the animation bit on the big screen and I liked the use of the buildings with the fireworks and the guitarists on the top. It was exciting.”

Beverley Lloyd, 40, of Ellesmere Port said: “I would have given it 11 out of 10. It was that good. I liked the guitarists. But the event should have gone on longer and they should have played some Beatles songs like Penny Lane because everyone would have started to sing along.”

Her mother Margaret added: “I think it will make lots of people come to Liverpool. You did not know where to look. It was amazing.”

Claire Tunstall, 36, from Prenton said: “I liked the bit with the children holding the lit up boxes and walking around. Children are a big part of the Capital of Culture because it’s giving them a chance.”

Ray Morris, 46, of Birkenhead, said: “It was fantastic. Great. It was exciting because it showed the city off and the performances were really good. But I thought it was a bit short and it should have gone on a lot longer.”

Some disappointed revellers were however unable to get to St George’s Plateau as packed trains and buses struggled to handle the crowds.

But a spokesman for Merseyrail said: “From 6pm onwards it started to get real busy and after 7pm they were really full, but we controlled it.” Just three arrests were made for public order offences.

Liverpool Daily Post/ Echo

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: Ringo Starr talks to the Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/01/12/exclusive-interview-ringo-starr-talks-to-the-daily-post-64375-20342180/)

‘I’M NOT on holiday – I’m here to play the drums and sing. My message to Liverpool is support Capital of Culture – get out there and give it all you’ve got. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/01/12/exclusive-interview-ringo-starr-talks-to-the-daily-post-64375-20342180/)

robbo176

01-12-2008, 10:15 AM

heres the Echo's video of the opening

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/videos-pictures/videos/

PhilipG

01-12-2008, 11:05 AM

I was waiting to see if anybody else posted pics, because mine aren't very good.
They're all hand held, over people's heads, so there's loads of camera shake.
Unfortunately the camera broke down half way through!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/2186623523_c7e93be8f3_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/2186624591_4097d2d2fb_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2005/2186624271_004f12d743_o.jpg

John(Zappa)

01-12-2008, 11:25 AM

Not to worry philg
Was Ringo good? :unibrow:

A.D.W

01-12-2008, 11:25 AM

Good pictures, PhilipG. It was so crowded I couldn't use my tripod, but I might post pictures later if I find any half decent ones.

:Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13

PhilipG

01-12-2008, 11:30 AM

Thanks, chaps.
I enjoyed Ringo.
Had to walk home (50 minutes) because there didn't seem to be any buses leaving town.
(The usual number were still going in.)

robbo176

01-12-2008, 11:39 AM

good pics Philip:handclap:

I managed to get a taxi home :PDT_Piratz_26:
heres the best of my pictures
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/1guitar.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/1screen.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/1stgeorges.jpg

there rest were too blured

A.D.W

01-12-2008, 11:52 AM

Good pictures, Robbo.

:PDT_Piratz_26:

Kev

01-12-2008, 11:52 AM

Thanks so much for the pics, I wasn't able to go sadly but have watched the available video clips.

Any more would be greatly appreciated cheers.

:)

Max

01-12-2008, 12:29 PM

A.D.W

01-12-2008, 12:52 PM

Thanks so much for the pics, I wasn't able to go sadly but have watched the available video clips.

Any more would be greatly appreciated cheers.

:)

Another video for you to watch, Kev.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBPRDDTLsk

Devo

01-12-2008, 12:59 PM

Couldn't make it to town so opted for second best, Everton Brow.
There were loads of cars up there even an ice cream van, but nothing much could be seen, and could only be heard on Radio Merseyside. Seems people were expecting to see a Firework Display at the End of proceedings. It was mighty cold up on the Brow, and im sure everyone of us up there were sorry not to have been Squashed in and warm on Lime Street.

http://www.geocities.com/paul.devo/P1010245.JPG

Phil N

01-12-2008, 01:08 PM

I actually thought it was a good night, not without faults, but on the whole a good start.
I was pleased with the location and the lighting looked fantastic, plus to use so many different buildings was a great idea. I was especially pleased Urban Stawberry Lunch were invited to play throughout - though a bit annoyed they didn't actually get a mention!! As for Ringo; less said the better, he cant sing and his drumming was never more than competant - He did very little for his 30K expenses, seeing as he agreed to do the event for free!!

Felt sorry for The Wombats, forced to mime, and only allowed one song -

Yeah the sound was crap, but hey it was an 'event' it did make you feel part of something and thats what mattered - Not perfect but a **** good start

Kev

01-12-2008, 01:10 PM

Another video for you to watch, Kev.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBPRDDTLsk

cheers

Paul D

01-12-2008, 01:11 PM

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8687/coc1oh9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7011/coc2tp9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's probably the best of my pictures,the rest were blurred.

A.D.W

01-12-2008, 01:15 PM

Good pictures, Paul D. What I wouldn't have paid to have been allowed to take pictures from the gantry behind where you were stood.

:PDT10

Paul D

01-12-2008, 01:18 PM

Good pictures, Paul D. What I wouldn't have paid to have been allowed to take pictures from the gantry behind where you were stood.

:PDT10

I know I thought that,on the radio they were talking about some student from Liverpool whose apartment overlooked the whole area and the press asked could they take pictures from his bedroom,he said of course you can but it'll cost you five grand,they paid up apparently.:)

Paul D

01-12-2008, 01:23 PM

Kev

01-12-2008, 01:26 PM

I thought the whole event went brilliantly,I'm sure if we'd failed this test the press would've crucified us.I thought Ringo was great and I actually like his song.I'd like to be able to watch it all back so let's hope the culture show (BBC2) on Sunday do it justice,set your video's people.:PDT11

In case u want it one more time Paul....

...ringos new single:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3699447n

Paul D

01-12-2008, 01:28 PM

Thanks Kev I'll have a listen.::PDT_Piratz_26:

PhilipG

01-12-2008, 01:29 PM

Thanks Mandy and Paul.
I enjoyed the whole event, and thought the choir sounded beautiful.

Mandy, is your first pic the Wellington monument?
The spotlight went on St Johns Tower, so I took a photo, and it turned out to be my best.
Spot the guitarist, because I can't. LOL.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/2186624969_f65c10f93a_o.jpg

robbo176

01-12-2008, 01:37 PM

Good pictures, Robbo.

:PDT_Piratz_26:

thanks ADW :PDT_Piratz_26:

robbo176

01-12-2008, 01:40 PM

Thanks Mandy and Paul.
I enjoyed the whole event, and thought the choir sounded beautiful.

Mandy, is your first pic the Wellington monument?
The spotlight went on St Johns Tower, so I took a photo, and it turned out to be my best.
Spot the guitarist, because I can't. LOL.

it is the Wellington monument Philip :PDT_Piratz_26:

I couldn't take many photos because I had to lift my daughter through the whole show......my arms are aching today

lindylou

01-12-2008, 01:46 PM

John(Zappa)

01-12-2008, 02:07 PM

:) the guitarist was there Phil. he was all lit up when he was playing. :)

Ahh was he playing or doing a mime act?
Pity Ringo's wasn't mimed.!!!:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

lindylou

01-12-2008, 02:09 PM

Well, here is my view on the event:

We thought it was brilliant. We had a good experience and didn't find anything to find fault with.

When we first arrived we stood by the Empire. After a while we decided to go for hot coffee to warm us up, so we went to Lime st station were we queued for half an hour for the coffee :) .. didn't mind tho' as it passed the time and we would have been standing outside anyway.
By the time we got the coffee the exits from the station had been closed, except for the Lord Nelson st exit. People were filtered out that way and we got stuck in a solid jam by the side of the Empire. You could not move an inch and I must admit I did get a bit panicky as I could feel the sheer weight of the crowd around me :eek: I knew we would have to get out of that bottle neck ! We squeezed out and eventually managed to get around the back of the Empire and around to London rd - past the Scots piper playing liverpool songs on the pipes :) ... and we found a speck over by the pavement by the Steble fountain. That's where we stayed without any bother. We had a good enough view and we were not too crushed.

I thought the Drummers were great - a very rousing sound, the lights were good, the choir was lovely, the music good, and the atmosphere smashing. :handclap:
Everybody cheered for Ringo. :) ... and why shouldn't they - he is a Beatle isn't he !!

I think we were lucky where we were standing as we didn't see any trouble.

However, I did see some IDIOTS with prams !!! I ask you !! who would DREAM of taking a baby in a pushchair into crowds like that :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .. and such a bitter cold night too for young children. People were crushing past little children in pushchairs - can you imagine the poor little child looking up to a sea of bodies towering above them :disgust: - people are so irresponsible.
( it's a wonder there weren't idiots with dogs !! .. I have seen this on occasions - soft idiots taking poor dogs to events with fireworks !) :rolleyes:

.. anyway, the only complaint I have is that I saw some parents a bit off their heads and drinking beer from a can, and shouting down everyones' earholes, while their long suffering kids looked up at them - in fact there was a point where they lost their kids and security was called - - it didn't stop them form continuing boozing tho' - I moved away from them, as those loud mouth chav types get on my wick.

All in all we had a great time and had no problems. :PDT_Piratz_26:

I was well pleased with the occasion :handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

mimng

01-12-2008, 02:15 PM

does nobody care that all of the musicians seemed to be miming????

does nobody care that ringo and the wombats seemed to have singles/albums to promote that are coming out on monday???

does nobody care that all the sinister looking power rangers, i mean, GUITARISTS on the roof of the carpark were not playing their instruments, but in fact looked like some sort of ridiculous silhoutted deathsquad???

does nobody care that at the end of ringo's drum solo (at the start of the event), the music stopped and he was still hitting his drums, despite no sound coming out???

does nobody care that the wonderful sounding choir had no microphones in sight (that i could see)???

does nobody care that the beatles left liverpool just as soon as they could and that the wombats single is called 'moving to new york' (exactly what john lennon did)???

does nobody care that liverpools biggest band of this century, the zutons, were not there at all???? did they tell the capital of culture to f off? PROBABLY!!

capital of culture??? capitalist vultures. i would love to stand corrected on any of the above points, but that is how it appeared to me - i was there. and to me it all looked like a big state propaganda event.

thanks for the freedom of speech.

mimng

01-12-2008, 02:17 PM

ps

thanks must go to the wombats for making it blatantly obvious that they were miming, i hope they were told to mime against their better judgements, and they certainly showed everyone that the whole thing was a farce.

PhilipG

01-12-2008, 02:17 PM

The Skelhorne Street entrance was kept open as well.
It's understandable that the main entrance was closed as that led to the most densely packed area.
I was on the concourse near the hairdressers, jealous of the people who were on the roofs of those shops.

PhilipG

01-12-2008, 02:19 PM

mimng

01-12-2008, 02:26 PM

No.
I didn't care.
It was put over well, and sounded great.

i expect live music to be LIVE not recorded. im embarassed that other people from this fair city actually like being duped.

Kev

01-12-2008, 02:28 PM

You share the same IP address as another member, a coincidence?

:PDT10

Paul D

01-12-2008, 02:30 PM

mimng

01-12-2008, 02:39 PM

this city used to be a hotbed of working class action and now it is becoming another middle class business suite - i hope you all continue to enjoy giving your money to people richer than you are, and making them richer still, because that is all this whole ridiculous capital of culture event is about. good night!

ps luckily i only had to walk to the event, from what i've read on here it seems getting in and getting home from town was a dangerous misery for many people. cui bono?

lindylou

01-12-2008, 02:46 PM

Well I don't care about of any of that stuff - 'cos I was just made up to be there and we thought it was great.

Those guitarists and drummers were pure drama and different.

I have to admit tho' that I did notice the title of the Wombat's ' Moving to New York' - and I did think it is ironic because of John Lennon being murdered there :( the Wombats or the organisers should have had the grace to choose something else for them to play. It wouldn't have hurt to play something different.

Paul D

01-12-2008, 02:50 PM

Every time you shop,eat,get the bus,take in a show,drive your car,buy your car (in fact everything you do) you give your money to someone richer than you,so what you say means absolutely nothing and it took me 25 minutes to get home from town,misery eh.If you don't like it you don't have to go because nobody forced you too,I'm sure the estimated 3oo million people around the World enjoyed it,I wouldn't expect some people here to because they walk about with a black cloud permanently above their heads moaning,if it wasn't this it'd be the weather getting them down.

john

01-12-2008, 02:50 PM

You share the same IP address as another member, a coincidence?

:PDT10

Who could this be???:shock:

PhilipG

01-12-2008, 02:51 PM

Remember, the weather was freezing.
Us, in the crowds had the body warmth of each other.
The performers were much more exposed to the cold.
So, they mimed.
So what!

Paul D

01-12-2008, 02:52 PM

I have to admit tho' that I did notice the title of the Wombat's ' Moving to New York' - and I did think it is ironic because of John Lennon being murdered there the Wombats or the organisers should have had the grace to choose something else for them to play. It wouldn't have hurt to play something different.

Moving to New York's the new single though and don't forget this was going out to America.:)

John(Zappa)

01-12-2008, 03:00 PM

mimng

01-12-2008, 03:05 PM

i dont LIKE giving my money to any companies - im sure most people dont, and im sure most people think they get overcharged for most goods and services. and when these rich individuals and companies get together and organise things like the capital of culture, which doesnt actually benefit the culture of the city (selling out the culture of quiggins for more middle class shops, covering up ugly buildings rather than redeveloping them, turning the city centre into a building site when it is the poverty of the suburbs that actually needs the regeneration, removing half of the banksy work of art that in any other city would become part of its tourist attraction, spending vast amounts of money on executive lunches and meetings, to name but a few) you have to wonder why so many good people have left the organisation of the capital of culture bid since its inception because they have been appalled at the misdirection of funds.

i went along last night expecting to be dazzled, but was completely flumoxed. to be fair, i was expecting a lot more liverpool music, (some beatles song would have been a GREAT idea, 50,000 people singing along would even made me have liked the guitarists on the roof of the carpark!) if 300million eyes were watching that last night, i would be a little embarassed.

i hope tonight at the echo arena is better. however, i dont have a ticket. easiest way to get one? be the manager of a business based in the city centre....

mimng

01-12-2008, 03:10 PM

Remember, the weather was freezing.
Us, in the crowds had the body warmth of each other.
The performers were much more exposed to the cold.
So, they mimed.
So what!

errrr

they dont need to mime at glastonbury, reading or leeds do they?? talk about making excuses for them!

and for january, it was a pretty balmy evening!!! compare that to the wind and rain of glasto last year, i reckon it was warmer last night!

Kev

01-12-2008, 03:12 PM

It was a free event wasn't it?

mimng

01-12-2008, 03:13 PM

It was a free event wasn't it?

no. our taxes paid for it.

Kev

01-12-2008, 03:32 PM

what did u go for then?

mimng

01-12-2008, 03:33 PM

as ive already said - for live music

gregs dad

01-12-2008, 03:35 PM

Kev

01-12-2008, 03:39 PM

as ive already said - for live music

lol, i was going to say, 'don't mention live music'.

That's not the impression I got earlier on.

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showpost.php?p=101825&postcount=69

mimng

01-12-2008, 03:52 PM

Kev

01-12-2008, 04:00 PM

I wouldn't have been that disappointed had I went myself. The point of the event was to launch the Capital of Culture year, we've still got 11 months to showcase Liverpool's live musical talents.

AK1

01-12-2008, 04:02 PM

I personally thought it was truly spectacular. The lighting, the interaction with the screens and the use of the cranes was truly amazing. It had everything you could want in an opening ceremony, and it's important to remember that it was an opening ceremony, not a concert.
The concert is at the arena tonight. There was alot of people there and at times it was very hard to move, but it was nothing to be overly worried about. I wish people would stop moaning and stop trying to find something negative with everything that is done, just enjoy yourselves!
It was fantastic and a truly amazing opening for 2008. I applaud everyone who was involved in organising it, and hope to see more of this over the coming year. Happy 2008!:handclap::PDT11

mimng

01-12-2008, 04:06 PM

oh right...so you can defend the event you didnt even see...

lets hope they dont all mime for the rest of the year. thousands of musical events would have happened in the city this year even if liverpool had never won the capital of culture because MONEY IS NOT CULTURE!!!!!!

lindylou

01-12-2008, 04:13 PM

Kev

01-12-2008, 04:14 PM

oh right...so you can defend the event you didnt even see...

For me its much more important than a band singing live.

lets hope they dont all mime for the rest of the year. thousands of musical events would have happened in the city this year even if liverpool had never won the capital of culture because MONEY IS NOT CULTURE!!!!!!

Honestly? Have you always been interested in Liverpool, or just in 2008?

AK1

01-12-2008, 04:22 PM

no. our taxes paid for it.

Firstly, per person it will have cost us practically nothing, and secondly it was money well spent!
What are they supposed to do?, not have any events at all because it might cost the taxpayers some money. What a truly selfish and nieve comment.:disgust:

mimng

01-12-2008, 04:37 PM

its not a naive comment. someone said it was free, but of course it wasnt, nothing ever is. cost per person is low?? £100m just on the celebrations for the year, according to the Daily Post. And this from the Guardian, 9 Jan 2008:

" The city council has identified a budget gap of about £20m for the next year: a result of hosting the capital of culture. With council tax increases capped at 5%, the council will be forced to borrow money, sell off council land, refinance assets, or use up most of its financial reserves to raise the funds. Do Liverpudlians have a right to feel aggrieved about the inevitable council tax hikes, seeing as payoffs to senior executives have been costly?"

if you take my comments in the wider context (ie capital of culture is about lining rich people's pockets and not investing in culture) then i believe it is big business that is selfish in this city, and nationwide. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and this whole capitalism of culture is a microcosm of that.

but why am i so annoyed about acts miming? because this is supposed be about CULTURE and we were forced to listen to a CD playing, and musicians delivering fake performances. if you cant understand that that is selling culture short, then I cannot understand how you can understand culture at all.

PhilipG

01-12-2008, 05:37 PM

mimng, or is it John?
You talk about honesty.
Why can't YOU be honest enough to post in your usual name, rather than inventing one just to have a go at last night?

naked lilac

01-12-2008, 06:23 PM

In case u want it one more time Paul....

...ringos new single:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3699447n

Kev.. ta for that video.. I loved the song.. very nice lyrics.. and well.. I quess the lyrics say it all about HIS life.. What an Icon.. and YES.. he has given back to the City 100%.. Too bad Paul didn't join him in this commemoration.. Well.. JOLLY GOOD... yeah yeah yeah.. LIVERPOOL:snf (41):

John(Zappa)

01-12-2008, 06:43 PM

kev - im sorry, i dont follow your logic there....

i went to see the wombats and ringo play live. ringo sang live (unfortunately) and the wombats mimed, as did ringo when he was playing the drums at the start of the event - from what i could tell. i'd love to stand corrected, but people seem to be agreeing with me....

I agree with you.
Some people will accept anything.Even miming and kidding the audience.
By the way,lots of freebies was had by most of the staff!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_42:

shoney

01-12-2008, 06:50 PM

where are the 300million people who watched it situated, there is absolutely no coverage of it down here and the only link i can find is this article that appeared in the NZ herald , our largest paper on December the 4th

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1501119/story.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10480195

sometimes numbers get way exagerated to help the hype, they do it down here every time the rugby world cup is on by stating it's the 3rd largest sporting event in the world

naked lilac

01-12-2008, 07:08 PM

Shoney.. I tried to locate it on TV here too..was suppose to be showing.. but, for the life of me..I couldn't find it.. CBS or ABC or ??? Well, YO and its people have brought at least the real thing to life.. and Thanks from me..:snf (41)::handclap: Hopefully somewhere in the later news tonight.. it will be shown.. I will keep posted.. aloha...

mbeh64

01-12-2008, 07:53 PM

mbeh64

01-12-2008, 08:02 PM

Found a video done by CBS of Ringos 08 performance on you tube. Unfortunatly I am unable to put the link to it on here.

So the best thing to do is go to You Tube, search under Ringo Starr Liverpool 08 and you should see the video near the top

A.D.W

01-12-2008, 08:06 PM

A.D.W

01-12-2008, 09:05 PM

My final video of last night. Enjoy or not!

:)

neOsWen0Tgg

lindylou

01-12-2008, 09:07 PM

As the great Stuart Hall would say on It`s a Knockout "Nil Points" for
Liverpool`s opening night of the C O C. It looked like all the fellows that have been working on the various building sites in the city had decided to have
a party in their working clothes

Hi greg's dad, As far as I understand it, the workmen and cranes featured were to represent the 'big dig' - there was a slogan about the ''big dig coming to the gig'' - I think it was a good idea to make a reference to the cranes which have been part of our landscape for so long.

:)

lindylou

01-12-2008, 09:10 PM

The narrator who was at the top of the Wellington column - does anyone know who he was ?

mimng

01-13-2008, 12:00 AM

mimng, or is it John?
You talk about honesty.
Why can't YOU be honest enough to post in your usual name, rather than inventing one just to have a go at last night?

honestly, phil G, im not john. i don't know john, unless john is the john who is the drummer in my band. and i dont think he is (mainly because the john i know cant use a computer)!

i am merely a disaffected punter who typed in 'liverpool forum' into google and came here in order to vent spleen about last night. is john a notorious doom-sayer on this site? he seems pretty right on to me!

buggedboy

01-13-2008, 12:27 AM

Well I went to both events and was hugely impressed with both.

The friday night event was brilliant. I was very impressed with the use of the plateau and everyone around me had a great time. The cranes, guitarists on car parks etc was clever and the kids demonstrating their work was a nice touch.

As to any accusations of miming. I didnt get any inkling of that from either Ringo or the Wombats.

Even if they did. it wasnt a concert, it was a ceremony. The Big Dig/Gig thing was only used because it rhymed!

The archer at the BArcelona olymics in 1992 actually missed the torch and it was activated by a machine, btu who cared? Nobody. It was great anyway.

Also I'm glad they veered away from Beatles stuff on this occasion. If they would have trotted out any of those, it would have looked far too much like we were indeed living in the past.

Yes Ringo was there, but he is an actively recording artist and to use new stuff blended in our past with our future pretty well.

So Friday got a thumbs up from me.

On to Saturday.

As opposed to the more cynical on here the whole thing wasnt a big corporate shmooze at all.

How did I get in? I got in for FREE because of my charity work, along with hundreds of others. Loads of seats were given away by the Culture Company to local community organisations.

As to the content. Really good actually. Chest swelling pride stuff at times.

The orchestra was immense throughout, along with the No Fakin boys. You name it, rope stunts, Irish solo singers, African music, breakdancers, a moving tribute to John Lennon, amazing visuals, the Farm getting everybody on their feet and of course...Mr Starr giving us a rendition of his horribly sentimental but ultimately quite cosy new single (which suffered the only technical glitch of the whole night) as well as "a little help from my friends" and "power to the people" when all the artists came on stage for a signalong.

Brilliantly executed and a tremendous opening weekend.

Howie

01-13-2008, 12:42 AM

IS THAT IT........?

WE went with high hopes - but left with huge disappointment.
Tonight's opening was typical of the Culture Company's top down approach.
A massive crowd turned up expecting a great show.
But none of us were engaged.
There was no singalong to any recognisable Liverpool 'anthem'.
No dancing. No terrace chants. No humour.
No emotional engagement with what is being done in our name, with our money, in our city.
Instead we were presented with a generally uninspiring, unfocussed, unintelligible series of set piece scenes.
It was cold and flat and, sadly, a bit dull.
It has also cost the city a fortune.
Ringo's appearance was a cynical attempt to cash in on the year - and promote his new single. Incredibly, the unknown MC told us, without a trace of Scouse irony, that Ringo's single was "on sale on Monday."
People in the crowd shuffled their feet with embarrassment.
As the patient and passive spectators were showered with confetti, one wag near us commented loudly: "That's council taxpayer's money."
The sound was crap, the fireworks flat and the music, too often, a lifeless thrash.
St George's Hall, as ever, looked wonderful.
People started leaving after 30 minutes.
By the end, most of us were dying to get off to the pub and drown our disappointment.
We have no doubt that the people of Liverpool will make the most of 2008.
But on the evidence of this damp squib, it will be in spite of the city council and the Culture Company and the hangers-on and the bullsh!tters - not because of them.
We will say no more, except to record the fact that Jason Harborow had the utterly astonishing cheek to turn up at the after show party at the Empire where he spent most of the time the time drinking with Hasitall and Colin CoverUp. No doubt negotiating his pay-off. We will post a picture soon.
We leave any further comment on what should have been an historic and celebratory night to you, the people of Liverpool. Feel free.
This is Liverpool, European Capital of Culture 2008.

Source: Liverpool subCulture (http://liverpoolsubculture.blogspot.com/2008/01/is-that-it.html)

PhilipG

01-13-2008, 01:45 AM

I clicked on the link in the above post, and every last comment was negative.

Representative?
I think not.

shoney

01-13-2008, 02:30 AM

Howie

01-13-2008, 02:47 AM

what actually goes on during this capital of culture year, I have no idea, I know people are spending vast amounts of money trying to beautify the place but I still don't know what really happens, does anyone else have a clue.?

Presentation of the Capitals

The title "European Capital of Culture" was designed to help bring European citizens closer together. This was the idea underlying its launch in June 1985 by the Council of Ministers of the European Union on the initiative of Melina Mercouri. Owing to the many visitors it has attracted, the title has since gone from strength to strength in Europe. This event is different from other cultural events by its size and its visibility. It requires a high standard of artistic quality.

Since 1985, more than 30 cities have been designated European Capitals of Culture, from Stockholm to Genoa, Athens to Glasgow, and Cracow to Porto. Over the years, this event has evolved without losing sight of its primary objective : to highlight the richness and diversity of European cultures and the features they share, promote greater mutual acquaintance between European citizens, foster a feeling of European citizenship.

Below you will find all the relevant information about the development of the action since 1985, the current process of designating the European capitals of Culture, and the European co-funding of the event. Various experiences from previous European Capital of Culture (ECOC) selections are presented to illustrate the criteria the cities have to meet in order to be selected.

Purpose and objectives of the event (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/objectives_en.html)

Official documents (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/off_doc_en.html)

Designation process (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/designation_en.html)

2011 - 2012 (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/titre_2011_en.html) et 2013 (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/titre_2013_en.html)

Community co-funding (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/financing_en.html)

History (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/retrospective_en.html)

Source: European Commission (http://ec.europa.eu/culture/eac/ecocs/present_cap/present_cap_en.html)

>> Liverpool 2008 Programme Download (http://www.liverpool08.com/Images/Liverpool%202008%20calendar_tcm79-108107.pdf) (755.3KB .pdf) << :snf (41):

iain

01-13-2008, 11:38 AM

buggedboy

01-13-2008, 11:42 AM

I clicked on the link in the above post, and every last comment was negative.

Representative?
I think not.

True. I never listen to much that is said on the Liverpool Subculture. We often log on at work to simply giggle at the moaning LCC employees who winge at everything and anything done by anyone except comrade Joe Anderson and his cronies who wish nothing but to take the city the point where all have to queue for our bread before taking our hammer and sickle out into the fields.

John(Zappa)

01-13-2008, 12:32 PM

honestly, phil G, im not john. i don't know john, unless john is the john who is the drummer in my band. and i dont think he is (mainly because the john i know cant use a computer)!

i am merely a disaffected punter who typed in 'liverpool forum' into google and came here in order to vent spleen about last night. is john a notorious doom-sayer on this site? he seems pretty right on to me!

I think they think you are me or I am you.
If they had enough balls just to say so.
I will not and never have hidden my name,changed it or whatever you think.
I am what I am,like it or loathe it.I am me.
You are what you is.
So anyone who thinks am signing in as mimng please say so...to my face(address available upon request).Am not into silly stupid games kidz!!:PDT10

Kev

01-13-2008, 01:19 PM

I think they think you are me or I am you.
If they had enough balls just to say so.
I will not and never have hidden my name,changed it or whatever you think.
I am what I am,like it or loathe it.I am me.
You are what you is.
So anyone who thinks am signing in as mimng please say so...to my face(address available upon request).Am not into silly stupid games kidz!!:PDT10

John, the member in question mimng, shares the same IP address as another member called 'Jon' who I'm still waiting hear from, I had earlier posted a message in error with the name spelt 'John'. Thats probably the misunderstanding.

PhilipG

01-13-2008, 01:45 PM

John, the member in question mimng, shares the same IP address as another member called 'Jon' who I'm still waiting hear from, I had earlier posted a message in error with the name spelt 'John'. Thats probably the misunderstanding.

My comment wasn't aimed at any John in particular, and I did put a question mark, but even without Kev's typo it was obvious that mimng was invented for one purpose only.
I do apologise to all the John's on this forum. :hug:

John(Zappa)

01-13-2008, 01:50 PM

I NEVER will hide behind another name or whatever.So it's not me.
Glad that's cleared that up.Jeezus some people!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_42:

Kev

01-13-2008, 02:07 PM

I NEVER will hide behind another name or whatever.So it's not me.
Glad that's cleared that up.Jeezus some people!!!!:PDT_Xtremez_42:

John, experience on the forum has shown that some member have set up multiple accounts and unfortunately abused this to post messages designed to upset etc.

I regularly check the ip addresses.

I doubt you would ever do such a thing mate :PDT11

lindylou

01-13-2008, 05:02 PM

I thought it was brilliant :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

My vantage point wasn't so brilliant, there was a tree between me and most of the action :rolleyes: but I thought the setting of the show was superb, using all the buildings in sight with a fantastic light and firework show. All the acrobats performing in mid-air being swung around by the cranes were brilliant! Especially the bit with the animation on the big screens and the people acting in front of it. It didn't take me long to realise the guitarists were faking it, but I didn't let it spoil the show - I was there to enjoy myself so I did :PDT10 I must say though I didn't know the Wombats or Ringo were miming. Why give Ringo such a slating? Criticised for leaving Liverpool, and now criticised when he comes back! Everyone in earshot of me at least gave him a rapturous welcome back.

Yes it did cost our taxpayers' money. But how do you put on a show otherwise? "Nothing is ever free". Yes you could save hundreds of millions of taxpayers' £££'s by not having any of these events .... but what's the Capital of Culture without anything going on :PDT10

Friday's show made me proud.

Well said. That's how we saw it - a superb and dramatic setting, and the absailers in front of the big screens were good - looking like they were part of the film. :handclap:

.. and like you said, everyone around gave Ringo a big cheer.
(Yes, Ringo would have been slated if he wasn't there.) :rolleyes:

as for the guitarists being mimed - well, we were too enthralled with all that was going on to notice - and who cares anyway ?? They were pretty dramatic. Maybe they couldn't play live for obvious reasons - - that they were blinkin' miles up on the top of such tall structures :shock: Let the critics try playing guitar all the way up there and in the freezing wind and cold !!

Like you, we went to enjoy it too. :)

Max

01-13-2008, 05:39 PM

Too conveiniet for Gringo to return to Liverpool.

Granada just reported the show at the Echo arena and never mentioned who the Muscial acts where! It seems musical wise If your not a Beatle or not associated with them and from Liverpool theres no mention.

A 2nd rate church choir could of wrote what the Beatles did.

Steven

01-13-2008, 06:15 PM

Hmmmmmmmm that sounds nearly positive for you.

John(Zappa)

01-13-2008, 07:30 PM

Libertarian

01-13-2008, 07:33 PM

I think that on the whole this weekend has been a success for Liverpool

Kev

01-13-2008, 07:34 PM

Me too.

mr mcmoof

01-13-2008, 08:07 PM

To add my voice to the discussions on the CoC opening event...

It's a question of plastic culture. Of when culture is not really culture at all -- but a placebo culture, a Mackie-D's for the soul, all sugar and E-numbers, and no nutrition, simply designed to give you a quick and easy fix.

Such is the way of the world today, I guess; and the sad truth is that plastic concerts are more than good enough for the plastic people they are intended for. Fake as hell, but easy to put on, and easy to absorb. Nothing too taxing. If you're organising an event, the Lowest Common Denominator is the way to go - why make more work for yourself anyway trying to push back the envelope when you can slap a few cliches together?

For example, why bother getting together the most outspoken poets, bands and performance artists from Liverpool and giving them a platform to really tell the world what it is that Liverpool feels in it's heart, how it is that the people of Liverpool - poor, ill-treated Liverpool - really feel about the wider world around them?

No, no. Too much original thought required for that one. Far easier to wheel out Ringo Starr after two decades of sitting on a beach in Los Angeles -- he was in the BEATLES, did you know that?

And besides, everyone knows original thought is dangerous anyway. Why, if anything to controversial and/or insightful is said, you run the risk of alienating all those generous 'partners' - the sponsors, the private companies with their fingers prodded firmly and deeply into the pie (as always).

There is a fantasy to be maintained after all, an illusion to keep going -- of this plastic world that the plastic people live in, going to these plastic concerts in the first place, for a little plastic culture. A fantasty that maintains that this world of avarice and consumerism and market branding by mind-control from childhood isn't falling to pieces in front of our every eyes; and that the people who control its course, and benefit most from it, aren't shafting us with every waking breath.

To me, the CoC opening ceremony was nothing more than a feeble attempt at justifying all the damage this meaningless title has brought to Liverpool, thanks to the team of incompetents charged with its supervision. The Capital of Culture team have managed to finish the work Hitler's mob started back in the 1940s. Between all the different construction contractors and redevelopment agencies, half of the city's architectural heritage has been demolished to build DROSS in its place -- with it going much human-cultural heritage (ripping down Toxteth to build designer flats that most of the former residents can't afford, for example), not to mention much of the city's COUTER-cultural heritage (Quiggins RIP). Yes, for the privilege of a few more dull-as-dishwater, generic shopping malls like the Met Quarter, the city's council budget has been ransacked... handed, btw, over to those propety developers. Oh, thank goodness for them, and all those wonderful city 'partners', noble and selfless as they are, helping renovate our city for nothing more than massively in excess of the money it costs. Don't be fooled by the fact that not one of them lifted a greasy finger during all those years that Liverpool really needed a little helping hand -- you know, like doing something about all those buildings that have been fire damaged for decades, or even remained bomb-damaged from the SECOND WORLD WAR... Or providing jobs or investment of any form for a hopeless generation.

Sorry CoC staff, but it didn't work. The opening ceremony was banal and as fake ass as it gets. The perfect opening ceremony for the banal and fake ass "culture" this city shares with the rest of the twenty first century world. And on top of all that -- you were all friggn miming as well!!!

Oh, and as for the performers who wore construction-site safety gear as an 'hilarious' inside joke -- well it kind of reminded me of Tony Blair's equally 'hilarious' "Am I bovvered I've ****ed up the whole world?" sketch on Comic Relief.

As in, it was a slap in the face.

mr mcmoof

01-13-2008, 08:09 PM

as for the guitarists being mimed - well, we were too enthralled with all that was going on to notice - and who cares anyway ?? They were pretty dramatic.

Exactly my point.

Btw, it isn't any harder to play a musical instrument depending on how far away you are from the Earth's core.

Unless you're in space.

Libertarian

01-13-2008, 08:12 PM

mr mcmoof

01-13-2008, 08:15 PM

As for construction workers are you saying construction workers cant be cultured or do you think only effete oxford dons who hate postmodernism are truly cultured?

Don't be so ridiculous. And stop trying to make me look like some sort of snob by misrepresenting what I write. You know full well what I'm talking about.

The decision by the organisers to make construction wear a constume theme for the evening, in an intendedly amusing reference to all the building work being done across the city, was an insult, when you bear in mind the realities of the situation.

Libertarian

01-13-2008, 08:20 PM

Don't be so ridiculous. And stop trying to make me look like some sort of snob by misrepresenting what I write. You know full well what I'm talking about.

The decision by the organisers to make construction wear a constume theme for the evening, in an intendedly amusing reference to all the building work being done across the city, was an insult, when you bear in mind the realities of the situation.

As I said capital of culture is about more than the opening ceremony. Obviously the word culture is debatable, culture for one person is not culture for another. I have looked at the events and there seems to be a mixture of high brow and popular culture. Personally I thought there needed to be more local involvement and events but this has been a topic of contention for a while now and is not new to the opening ceremony. I thought the opening ceremony was a pleasant way to spend an evening but the fact is that if you don't like it dont attend--simple.

mr mcmoof

01-13-2008, 08:25 PM

As I said capital of culture is about more than the opening ceremony. Obviously the word culture is debatable, culture for one person is not culture for another. I have looked at the events and there seems to be a mixture of high brow and popular culture. Personally I thought there needed to be more local involvement and events but this has been a topic of contention for a while now and is not new to the opening ceremony. I thought the opening ceremony was a pleasant way to spend an evening but the fact is that if you don't like it dont attend--simple.

I take your point that there are events planned for the rest of the year that are likely to be more culturally rich. But lectures at the university are hardly going to be transmitted to 300 million people across Europe, and be the main focus of a night's event are they?

Besides, I didn't know it was going to be rubbish before I went, otherwise I wouldn't have gone. But having picked up the bill along with the rest of the people in the city, I feel pretty justified in criticising the quality of the product. As a consumer, you understand.

Libertarian

01-13-2008, 08:31 PM

I take your point that there are events planned for the rest of the year that are likely to be more culturally rich. But lectures at the university are hardly going to be transmitted to 300 million people across Europe, and be the main focus of a night's event are they?

Besides, I didn't know it was going to be rubbish before I went, otherwise I wouldn't have gone. But having picked up the bill along with the rest of the people in the city, I feel pretty justified in criticising the quality of the product. As a consumer, you understand.

Look I'm not gonna get personal about this. as it happens I didn't go because its not really my thing. Opening ceremonies tend to be plasticy don't they whether its the olympics or commonwealth games. The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic at the Echo arena though last night are an example of deep real culture and the fact that they played next to bands like the Farm or the Zutons --local lads shows how high culture and popular culture can interact seemlessly. I didn't see any references to the Met Quarter or shopping in the events. By the way I think it wrong that the council tax payer is picking up part of the bill for these events too, but when the elections come you have the chance to vote the people wwho make these decisons out! Part of the freedoms of living ina plasticy democracy.

Libertarian

01-13-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote To me, the CoC opening ceremony was nothing more than a feeble attempt at justifying all the damage this meaningless title has brought to Liverpool, thanks to the team of incompetents charged with its supervision. The Capital of Culture team have managed to finish the work Hitler's mob started back in the 1940s. Between all the different construction contractors and redevelopment agencies, half of the city's architectural heritage has been demolished to build DROSS in its place

Like Paradise street where the architectural gems such as the Moat House Hotel and the 60's bus station have been demolished. A very tacky street. Or Whitechapel ok a very bland mall has been built but its an improvement on the tacky 70's post office with mirrors on the front.

mimng

01-13-2008, 08:43 PM

John, the member in question mimng, shares the same IP address as another member called 'Jon' who I'm still waiting hear from, I had earlier posted a message in error with the name spelt 'John'. Thats probably the misunderstanding.

i connect to the internet via my mobile phone, which is a t-mobile contract phone, on the web n walk plus plan. i can guarantee i have never ever posted to this board prior to my original post. if someone else posts from the same IP address as me, then i can only surmise that they must have broken into my flat, stolen my mobile phone, connected to the internet with it, created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website, and then replaced my mobile phone EACH AND EVERY TIME THEY POSTED!

the other only possible explanation is my girlfriend is the person behind the profile called 'Jon', which is also highly unlikely!

there is one more explanation of course....IP addresses are not always static and in fact, in some cases, change each time a person logs on to the internet. so please will people accept that i am an original person with opinions who wanted to express them - now will you please concentrate on what it is i had to say, instead of questioning the validity of my existence and seeming to reduce all the opinions of people who think CoC is a joke down to one rogue person creating multiple identities. people have different opinions - accept it!

i wholly appreciate the post from mr mcmoof, it shows that, lo, there are more of us! more people who can think for themselves and see through propaganda.

i went to the docks today to see the turner prize before they packed it away. high art isnt really for me, but it is good that it was here. however, the thought struck me as i looked at all the building work, providing the new shopping 'mall' on the other side of the strand - what is the point of more shops? what can you not already buy in liverpool? there's already two of most shops in the city centre, do we need to add a third argos, a third cex? surely not. chavasse park was the last bit of greenery left in the city centre. now there is none. who really thinks this is a good idea??

Kev

01-13-2008, 08:48 PM

....created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website,

Pardon?

Libertarian

01-13-2008, 08:49 PM

i connect to the internet via my mobile phone, which is a t-mobile contract phone, on the web n walk plus plan. i can guarantee i have never ever posted to this board prior to my original post. if someone else posts from the same IP address as me, then i can only surmise that they must have broken into my flat, stolen my mobile phone, connected to the internet with it, created some virtual alter-ego for themselves called 'Jon' on this purile website, and then replaced my mobile phone EACH AND EVERY TIME THEY POSTED!

the other only possible explanation is my girlfriend is the person behind the profile called 'Jon', which is also highly unlikely!

there is one more explanation of course....IP addresses are not always static and in fact, in some cases, change each time a person logs on to the internet. so please will people accept that i am an original person with opinions who wanted to express them - now will you please concentrate on what it is i had to say, instead of questioning the validity of my existence and seeming to reduce all the opinions of people who think CoC is a joke down to one rogue person creating multiple identities. people have different opinions - accept it!

i wholly appreciate the post from mr mcmoof, it shows that, lo, there are more of us! more people who can think for themselves and see through propaganda.

i went to the docks today to see the turner prize before they packed it away. high art isnt really for me, but it is good that it was here. however, the thought struck me as i looked at all the building work, providing the new shopping 'mall' on the other side of the strand - what is the point of more shops? what can you not already buy in liverpool? there's already two of most shops in the city centre, do we need to add a third argos, a third cex? surely not. chavasse park was the last bit of greenery left in the city centre. now there is none. who really thinks this is a good idea??

How was the opening ceremony 'propaganda' Chavasse park is not going a new park is going to be developed in the new development. As for the new development I too think we have a glut of shops and it is worrying that shopping is the number one leisure activity now. However, I do appreciate that this development is going to creat thousands of jobs for local people, I remember the hungry 80's in Liverpool and if someone had told me that all this investment and work was gonna be created here then I would have thought it impossible. Do you want to go back to the early 80's when Yosser famously walked around a silted up Albert Dock remember how bad it was? Or today when we are hosting the Turner prize at that location? By the way thats not high art its modernism.

mimng

01-13-2008, 08:51 PM

Pardon?

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

mimng

01-13-2008, 08:54 PM

apologies - puerile. spelling mistake, just like my name!

Kev

01-13-2008, 08:58 PM

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

You could have avoided this misunderstanding by introducing yourself, tell us a bit about yourself as most people do. It tends to breaks the ice with members.

mimng

01-13-2008, 09:11 PM

How was the opening ceremony 'propaganda' Chavasse park is not going a new park is going to be developed in the new development. As for the new development I too think we have a glut of shops and it is worrying that shopping is the number one leisure activity now. However, I do appreciate that this development is going to creat thousands of jobs for local people, I remember the hungry 80's in Liverpool and if someone had told me that all this investment and work was gonna be created here then I would have thought it impossible. Do you want to go back to the early 80's when Yosser famously walked around a silted up Albert Dock remember how bad it was? Or today when we are hosting the Turner prize at that location? By the way thats not high art its modernism.

im glad we agree about the shops. however, if chavasse park is still gonna be there, its gonna be a lot smaller, and in the shadow of a giant shopping mall. personally from looking at the area today i cannot see how it is possible. however, like all my earlier posts, i would love to stand corrected on any issues ive raised, so i'll be the first to admit i was wrong if a beautiful chavasse park is open by the end of the year.

as to the hungry 80s, i agree the albert dock looks much better now that big business has intervened. it mustbe great for the rich people who live there. shame about the suburbs of the city, where most people actually live of course.

the opening ceremony wasnt propaganda per se - i was alluding to the earlier post about plastic culture, and people accepting what is dealt to them without thinking about who benefits from all this. scousers or business? scousers more than business? or business more than scousers?

i argue any scouse happiness will only be a by-product of business profit, and that is my final thought on the matter. if we cant agree on this, then we are never going to.

again - thanks for the freedom of speech.

mimng

01-13-2008, 09:16 PM

You could have avoided this misunderstanding by introducing yourself, tell us a bit about yourself as most people do. It tends to breaks the ice with members.

apologies. i did not want to offend, i only intended to post once and then probably wouldnt have come back. but people seemed to be angry that i was somone else! of course, im not.

as an adminstrator, you should beware the idea of looking up peoples IP addresses to find things out about them - maybe you should speak to them civilly before publicly accusing of things you do not know about.

Libertarian

01-13-2008, 09:19 PM

im glad we agree about the shops. however, if chavasse park is still gonna be there, its gonna be a lot smaller, and in the shadow of a giant shopping mall. personally from looking at the area today i cannot see how it is possible. however, like all my earlier posts, i would love to stand corrected on any issues ive raised, so i'll be the first to admit i was wrong if a beautiful chavasse park is open by the end of the year.

as to the hungry 80s, i agree the albert dock looks much better now that big business has intervened. it mustbe great for the rich people who live there. shame about the suburbs of the city, where most people actually live of course.

the opening ceremony wasnt propaganda per se - i was alluding to the earlier post about plastic culture, and people accepting what is dealt to them without thinking about who benefits from all this. scousers or business? scousers more than business? or business more than scousers?

i argue any scouse happiness will only be a by-product of business profit, and that is my final thought on the matter. if we cant agree on this, then we are never going to.

again - thanks for the freedom of speech.

You make some interesting and correct points. As far as i'm aware the new park is gonna be on top of an underground carpark. I don't know if it's gonna be bigger or smaller but my guess is that it will be smaller for financial reasons. However, my memories of Chavasse park are those simply of a field more than anything that didn't look particularly attractive and was overlooked by empty offices and the Moat House.

True it is big business that has regenerated the Albert Dock and I could not afford to live there but I have found much happiness in browsing through the free public galleries on many occasions, galleries that have brought the maritime history of the area to public attention, slavery, modern art, the beatles, and liverpools history.

Totally true that little is being done for the capital of culture in outlying areas and you are right to question who benefits in the end from the city's regeneration.

Kev

01-13-2008, 09:21 PM

as an adminstrator, you should beware the idea of looking up peoples IP addresses to find things out about them - maybe you should speak to them civilly before publicly accusing of things you do not know about.

I didn't accuse you of anything, I just mentioned that the ip addy was shared with another member, unless I've posted something I've forgotten about.

lindylou

01-13-2008, 10:34 PM

purile - because administrators who should know better accuse people of creating alter-egos, when this clearly hasnt happened.

It HAS happened before and that is the reason why admins are suspicious of alter-egos.

This time may have been a misunderstanding, but apart from anything else, I personally take offence to your arrogant remark that this is a puerile forum.
That is an insult to the hard work that has gone into creating this site, and an insult to the members.

I doubt if you will be very welcome after a remark like that.

That is MY opinion thankyou very much.

Howie

01-14-2008, 07:28 AM

There's no pleasing some people,sometimes I get the impression that even people from Liverpool want it to fail so they can all say I told you so when they're in the pub.One thing this city does produce more than any other is the ability to moan none stop about everthing,if there was a title for that we'd hold that aswell.

Start at the top
Jan 14 2008
by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

I WISH I had a quid for everybody I have heard these last two weeks berating the moaners and groaners allegedly dragging down Liverpool’s name.

We are all supposed to fly the flag for Liverpool in its Culture year, and keep schtum about any of the problems lurking in the background. Those who fail to abide by this decree are the equivalent of traitors, and need to be incarcerated in the old Dale Street Bridewell until January 1, 2009.

Even the Bishop of Liverpool has called for an end to the bickering. Well, yes, we should all pull together for the sake of our great city in its greatest year.

So how about starting with our politicians and highly-paid officials? Don’t see many signs there of happy-hugging and cross-party cheerleading.

Neither, it seems, does the District Auditor, Tim Watkinson. He is the man who keeps a careful watch on what’s happening in our town halls.

His latest report, presented to a committee of elected councillors last week, makes illuminating reading. He has told Liverpool City Council that it needs to improve its governance arrangements, in particular the way in which the elected councillors and senior officers work together to deliver the vision and services for Liverpool.

He adds that, despite some encouraging signs of recognition of the need for improvements, he says he has not been persuaded that there has been the required shift in culture to one of shared ownership and joint problem solving. Doesn’t fill you with confidence that things down at the town hall are hunky-dory.

Indeed, the council had to hire barristers – at council taxpayers’ expense – just to draw up legal papers to lay down on how the council and the council-owned Culture Company engage with each other.

Watkinson highlights the importance of councillors, whatever the colours of their rosettes, to work together with officers to sort out the big budget for 2008. Many of the so-called moaners and groaners are critical friends, people who have the best interests of the city at heart.

Difficult decisions need to be taken in 2008, and priorities may have to be re-assessed, says the DA.

So the people moaning about the moaners should concentrate on playing their part to work together for the sake of the city, and perhaps their new-found togetherness will rub off on the rest of us.

Sadly, I fear the politicians will have their sights firmly fixed on the May elections, so it is hard to see one of those “Peace in Our 08 Time” declarations being waved about.

The population of Liverpool will then have its say on what they think of the way they have been governed. I can hardly wait to see what happens to the political landscape of Liverpool in the more important year ever for the city.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/views/liverpool-columnists/columns/2008/01/14/start-at-the-top-64375-20345966/)

Thank you very much Larry - this really did need saying! :handclap:

Ged

01-14-2008, 09:57 AM

On the contrary, I wish I had a quid for all the moaners. Glasgow done very well year on year after its CoC, look at the broader picture, having this will bring in further investment and confidence in the city. Imagine we'd have lost it to Birmingham or Newcastle or whoever, imagine the screams then - why didn't we win it, why couldn't we compete... I wouldn't stand next to some of the doom and gloom merchants for fear of getting wet from that great big black cloud they carry around with them. There are 300+ events this year, in fact you'll see that equates almost one for every day of the coming year. I also can't believe that someone so vociferous didn't know the plans for the new park with water features and public areas when visions for it are on practically every forum of this kind in Liverpool.

It was an opening ceromony and that's all, could have been a bit longer in my book and whilst it might not be any harder to play a guitar live on top of the tower or Wellington column than in your front room - you sure need a lot more powerful amp :unibrow:

As long as the people investing time and effort in this year do so with an open mind and vigour (including the spectators) then it will be a success.