Its a worrying situation this, Rafa has apparently not ruled himself out of the England job, whilst the Americans have issued a statement saying they will not discuss transfers till December.

I can see why Rafa is pissed off, as although the window is January the wheels need to be put in motion now. But I can also see why Gillett and Hicks are pissed off, because Rafa is always bemoaning the lack of finances yet they backed him big time in the summer and they can legitimately say "why does he need more money".

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2007/11/23/rafa-count-me-in-89520-20149549/

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N157781071122-1704.htm

I agree with you Ste. I don't think any recent Liverpool manager can bemoan the finances afforded them.

I would personally like to see Mr Charisma - Mourinho in charge of England. Chelsea couldn't give Terry away to Brentford under Ranieri, Mourinho made him into the player he is and there's no 'star' too big - even Beckham in the England set-up who wouldn't look up to him.

Would failures like McClaren, Curbishly, Alladyce command the same respect - I think not.

It looks like Mourinho in charge of Liverpool and Beneathus in charge of England.

I seriously hope not.

Work with what you've got, you bought them - seems to be the message.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=a-phrase-that-lifted-the-lid-on-anfield-8217-s-inner-turmoil%26method=full%26objectid=20151477%26siteid =50061-name_page.html

I remember Joe Royle taking a funny turn and banning certain press. Is Rafa going funny or being funny here?

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=transcript-of-the-liverpool-manager-rafa-benitez-when-questioned-by-the-press%26method=full%26objectid=20150037%26siteid=5 0061-name_page.html

Very strange indeedy.

yet they backed him big time in the summer

To be fair our net spending wasn't much more than we usually spend, it's just that the Torres fee made it look like it was much more than usual when in fact it wasn't.

Why can't they dicuss this behind the scenes!? It doesn't help in the slightest to give the media a stick to beat us with. :angry:

His fee can't make it look like it was but it wasn't - it was. Lfc were the biggest close season spenders this season.

I remember Joe Royle taking a funny turn and banning certain press. Is Rafa going funny or being funny here?

.

Royle remained bitter for years. When Liverpool played Man City in a friendly in the summer of 1999 he asked if there was an Echo reporter in the room. When Chris Bascombe, who didnt even work for the echo when Royle was at Everton, put his hand up but Royle still refused to anwer questions till he was escorted off the premises.

Yeah, I remember reading that somewhere else before - easily upset these fellas on a kings ransom aren't they?

His fee can't make it look like it was but it wasn't - it was. Lfc were the biggest close season spenders this season.

You have to take the sales into account though too Ged, we spent around 40M since the summer but recouped almost 20M on Garcia, Cisse, Bellamy etc.

It's still a lot of cash but nothing earth shattering for one of Europe's top clubs in this day and age.

What the owners don't seem to understand is that, unlike their beloved NFL & baseball, to be successful in European football, you have to spend big. Certainly, there are valid questions to be asked about some of Benitez' buys. However, the outlay required for success at this level of the game is high; it is all of a piece. Gillett & Hicks are known for their ruthlessness in persuit of "the bottom line". What they probably don't know, however, is that Benitez shares with most Liverpool fans a bloodymindedness which means that if the worst comes to the worst, & Rafa says, "F*** this, I'm off!", the owners' image & brand will be mud to the supporters.

You have to take the sales into account though too Ged, we spent around 40M since the summer but recouped almost 20M on Garcia, Cisse, Bellamy etc.

It's still a lot of cash but nothing earth shattering for one of Europe's top clubs in this day and age.


That's exactly what i meant!

Our spending in the summer was blown out of any proportion when in fact our net spending wasn't much more than any other season.

You have to take the sales into account though too Ged, we spent around 40M since the summer but recouped almost 20M on Garcia, Cisse, Bellamy etc.

It's still a lot of cash but nothing earth shattering for one of Europe's top clubs in this day and age.


No you don't - that's a fallacy. That was money that Liverpool spent also. The bottom line is what you spend, listen to the legends phone-in and they spell that myth out for you ;)

So Rafa will go, deffo. They will sack Rafa.

In tonights echo he is calling for a truce.

Former Liverpool defender Mark Lawrenson believes current manager Rafael Benitez is in a 'precarious position' at Anfield. . . .


Lawrenson: Benitez in 'precarious position' (http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/news/story?id=484962&cc=5739)
Soccernet (based on Lawrenson's remarks on BBC Radio Five Live).

David Fairclough was interviewed yesterday and said given the money been afforded to Rafa already if he was him, he'd concentrate on getting the team into the next stages of the CL before mentioning any finances just yet.

Rafa might well say all the best players available will be gone elsewhere by then - welcome into the real world then rafa.

No you don't - that's a fallacy. That was money that Liverpool spent also. The bottom line is what you spend, listen to the legends phone-in and they spell that myth out for you ;)

Sorry Ged but it's not a fallacy, we spent a little over 40M and recouped a little under 20M. It's still not chump change but nowhere near as much as some would have us believe.

As far as Rafa goes, he seems to be back tracking a bit, which imho is the right way, because if it comes down to an open slanging match between owner and manager there can only be one outcome.

From the RTK (Reclaim The Kop) campaign;

We are calling on all supporters of Liverpool FC to demonstrate their
unconditional support of the Rafael Benitez this Wednesday. Rafa is far and
away the most important figure at Anfield - bar none. Under his guidance the
club has appeared in 2 European Cup finals in the little over 3 years that
he has been manager. We currently stand well placed in the title race and
remain undefeated.

Rafael Benitez also needs the full support of his employers. It is Rafa's
job not only to train and coach the players, but also to be proactive and
decisive in acquiring new ones. Bill Shankly turned down the Liverpool job
in the early 1950s because he was told it would not be his job to sign new
players. It was only when he was promised a free reign in the selection of
his squad that he agreed to become manager of Liverpool FC. Rafael Benitez
deserves similar support from our current owners.

If you want to pledge your support publicly for Rafa Benitez then join us on
Wednesday evening at 6:30pm, outside the Sandon pub on Oakfield Road, close
to The Kop. If you have any Rafa flags and banners then please bring them
along. We then urge you to continue your support of Rafa during this crucial
European Cup game by singing and chanting his name. We call on all Liverpool
supporters to unite and publicly display their devotion to our manager.

Rafa needs us, and we owe him every ounce of love and support that we can
possibly muster.

Remember: Liverpool Football Club exists not to make money - it exists to
win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other
purpose.

Hala Rafa!

From the RTK (Reclaim The Kop) campaign;

We are calling on all supporters of Liverpool FC to demonstrate their
unconditional support of the Rafael Benitez this Wednesday. Rafa is far and
away the most important figure at Anfield - bar none. Under his guidance the
club has appeared in 2 European Cup finals in the little over 3 years that
he has been manager. We currently stand well placed in the title race and
remain undefeated.

Rafael Benitez also needs the full support of his employers. It is Rafa's
job not only to train and coach the players, but also to be proactive and
decisive in acquiring new ones. Bill Shankly turned down the Liverpool job
in the early 1950s because he was told it would not be his job to sign new
players. It was only when he was promised a free reign in the selection of
his squad that he agreed to become manager of Liverpool FC. Rafael Benitez
deserves similar support from our current owners.

If you want to pledge your support publicly for Rafa Benitez then join us on
Wednesday evening at 6:30pm, outside the Sandon pub on Oakfield Road, close
to The Kop. If you have any Rafa flags and banners then please bring them
along. We then urge you to continue your support of Rafa during this crucial
European Cup game by singing and chanting his name. We call on all Liverpool
supporters to unite and publicly display their devotion to our manager.

Rafa needs us, and we owe him every ounce of love and support that we can
possibly muster.

Remember: Liverpool Football Club exists not to make money - it exists to
win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other
purpose.

Hala Rafa!

And i'm sure the owners multi millionaires will be stricken with fear by that.

And i'm sure the owners multi millionaires will be stricken with fear by that.

Probably not, but neither will they dismiss it as meaningless.

They didn't become multi millionaires by upsetting their customers.:rolleyes:

Amidst all this its odd that only Hicks is doing the talking. I wonder if all is not well amongst the owners themselves as well as between them and the manager.

Amidst all this its odd that only Hicks is doing the talking. I wonder if all is not well amongst the owners themselves as well as between them and the manager.

I thought I had read that Gillett had been quoted as well.

Chris

I thought I had read that Gillett had been quoted as well.

Chris

I havent seen anything quoted solely to Gillett, but Hicks has said things on his own.

The dispute between Benitez and the owners is partly Benitez's fault. His stubborness is well known, and he has forced the owners hands. Having said that he is a great manager and I hope he stays, but if he doesn't he has himself partly to blame. Apparently tonight he has offered an olive branch but it could be too late. Hicks and Gillett are saying 'nothing has changed' Personally I think they will wait to see if LFC beat Porto before they make their next decision.

Sorry Ged but it's not a fallacy, we spent a little over 40M and recouped a little under 20M. It's still not chump change but nowhere near as much as some would have us believe.

As far as Rafa goes, he seems to be back tracking a bit, which imho is the right way, because if it comes down to an open slanging match between owner and manager there can only be one outcome.


I don't dispute what he recouped but the fallacy is that it matters at all because it is money only partly recouped on an outlay made in the first place on players last season - the undisputed fact is that with 40m spent last close season, lfc were the biggest spenders and that is fact.

I don't dispute what he recouped but the fallacy is that it matters at all because it is money only partly recouped on an outlay made in the first place on players last season - the undisputed fact is that with 40m spent last close season, lfc were the biggest spenders and that is fact.

Sorry Ged but that doesn't make sense.

If I start off with a squad worth 200M, I spend 40M to bolster it and then get back 20M by selling a player or two. I end up with a squad worth 220M, ergo I've spent 20M.

It's hardly rocket science mate.:rolleyes:

Ok look at it like this, your previous manager spent 150 million to win the league, he failed, he recouped 55 million, your current manager has spent 100 million and recouped 45 - the fact is that 240 million has been spent to try and win it - only the shareholders will be bothered that any of that has been recouped, not the fans wanting the league - the fact is 240M wasted.

The fact is that 240M is the true amount spent to try and win the title - that was the amount that initially went out of the bank in the attempt, you can't therefore say, no, he only spent that amount less that amount otherwise you could say Chelsea, Utd etc, berated for trying to buy the league are in the same boat and recoup - only having won the title to boot. Arsenal in my view are worth their salt, not many Englishmen but not much outlay either and they do recoup well with Viera and Henry sales whilst also winning the league.

ps. conservative estimate on rafas true outlay and an over estimate on his recoup. In between times players have been bought, not done it and sold off again.

I'm getting reports at half 11 of a protest outside Anfield, anyone know what scale it's on?

I'm getting reports at half 11 of a protest outside Anfield, anyone know what scale it's on?

about what?

Against the yanks. Better not be my mates winding me up :rolleyes:

Against the yanks. Better not be my mates winding me up :rolleyes:

If it is real then turmoil for nothing. Have they announced a shared stadium or something? Nah, it think it is a wind up.

Nothing on the radio news :rolleyes: but it was off someone who lives nearby.

It's a not a protest really.
It's a March in support of Rafa.

Meet at the Sandon at 6:30pm

We'll start the March at 7pm.

2,000 turned out for the 'march', although the Sandon to Anfield is more of a hop really.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7116414.stm

Fabio Capello claims he has been approached by Liverpool officials about the job, whilst Fernando Torres claims the best players will leave if Rafa does.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=499786&in_page_id=1779

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=499353&in_page_id=1779

Word out of Anfield is that '' The clear the air talks have taken place and it looks positive''. Here's hoping good news :)

George Gillett: We’re right behind Rafa Benitez
Dec 17 2007
by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

GEORGE Gillett gave Rafa Benitez his unequivocal backing after Liverpool’s American owners held clear the air talks with the Reds boss at Anfield.

Benitez met with Gillett, co-owner Tom Hicks, Foster Gillett and Rick Parry for three hours following the 1-0 home defeat to Man United and the outcome was positive with all involved agreeing to bury their differences and work together for the good of the club. . . .

Full Story at icLiverpool (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=george-gillett-we-8217-re-right-behind-rafa-benitez%26method=full%26objectid=20260638%26siteid =50061-name_page.html)

On the other hand, there is some interesting commentary by Englishman Nick Webster on the US Fox Soccer site, looking back on yesterday's clash of the Four Titans, Liverpool vs Man U and Arsenal vs Chelsea. Webster seems to think Benitez's job is still in jeopardy despite the positive news now coming out of Anfield:

"Webster's A — Z of Super Sunday" (http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/7574184)

Chris

Ok look at it like this, your previous manager spent 150 million to win the league, he failed, he recouped 55 million, your current manager has spent 100 million and recouped 45 - the fact is that 240 million has been spent to try and win it - only the shareholders will be bothered that any of that has been recouped, not the fans wanting the league - the fact is 240M wasted.

The fact is that 240M is the true amount spent to try and win the title - that was the amount that initially went out of the bank in the attempt, you can't therefore say, no, he only spent that amount less that amount otherwise you could say Chelsea, Utd etc, berated for trying to buy the league are in the same boat and recoup - only having won the title to boot. Arsenal in my view are worth their salt, not many Englishmen but not much outlay either and they do recoup well with Viera and Henry sales whilst also winning the league.

ps. conservative estimate on rafas true outlay and an over estimate on his recoup. In between times players have been bought, not done it and sold off again.



Gerrard Houllier bought:

Jean Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1,500,000 28.11.1998
Frode Kippe Lillestrøm £700,000 06.01.1999
Rigobert Song Salernitana £2,600,000 26.01.1999
Djimi Traore Laval £550,000 18.02.1999
Sami Hyypia Willem II £2,500,000 19.05.1999
Vladimir Smicer Lens £3,750,000 24.05.1999
Titi Camara Marseille £2,600,000 01.06.1999
Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3,500,000 02.06.1999
Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnhem £4,000,000 15.06.1999
Erik Meijer Leverkusen Free* 01.07.1999
Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8,000,000 22.07.1999
Emile Heskey Leicester £11,000,000 10.03.2000
Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3,000,000 07.06.2000
Gary McAllister Coventry Free 01.07.2000
Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free* 01.07.2000
Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free* 01.07.2000
Nick Barmby Everton £6,000,000 18.07.2000
Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5,500,000 25.08.2000
Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000 22.09.2000
Daniel Sjolund West Ham £1,000,000 28.11.2000
Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5,500,000 07.12.2000
Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free 04.01.2001
John Arne Riise Monaco £4,000,000 20.06.2001
Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3,200,000 26.07.2001
Chris Kirkland Coventry £6,000,000* 31.08.2001
Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4,850,000 31.08.2001
Nicolas Anelka Paris St Germain On Loan* 20.12.2001
Abel Xavier Everton £750,000 30.01.2002
Bruno Cheyrou Lille £3,700,000 16.05.2002
El Hadji Diouf Lens £10,000,000 01.06.2002
Alou Diarra Bayern Munich Free 09.07.2002
Patrice Luzi Monaco Free 29.07.2002
Salif Diao Sedan £4,700,000 06.08.2002
Steve Finnan Fulham £3,500,000 01.07.2003
Anthony Le Tallec Le Havre £1,500,000* 01.07.2003
Florent S Pongolle Le Havre £1,500,000* 01.07.2003
Harry Kewell Leeds United £5,000,000 09.07.2003
Carl Medjani St Etienne Free 08.08.2003
Paul Jones Southampton On Loan* 09.01.2004
Djibril Cissé Auxerre £14,500,000* 01.07.2004

Total = 125.4 Million

Gerard Houllier Sold:

Jason McAteer Blackburn £4,000,000 27.01.1999
Steve Harkness Benfica £350,000 09.03.1999
Rob Jones West Ham Free 27.05.1999
Gareth Roberts Panionios £50,000 01.06.1999
David James Aston Villa £1,800,000 17.06.1999
Steve McManaman Real Madrid Free* 01.07.1999
Tony Warner Millwall Free* 01.07.1999
Jean Michel Ferri Sochaux £1,500,000 14.07.1999
Jamie Cassidy Cambridge United Free 22.07.1999
Sean Dundee VfB Stuttgart £1,500,000 30.07.1999
Paul Ince Middlesbrough £1,000,000 30.07.1999
Øyvind Leonhardsen Tottenham £2,800,000 06.08.1999
Bjørn Tore Kvarme St Etienne £750,000 30.08.1999
KarlHeinz Riedle Fulham £200,000 28.09.1999
Stig Inge Bjørnebye Blackburn £300,000 26.06.2000
Phil Babb Sporting Lisbon Free* 01.07.2000
David Thompson Coventry £2,750,000 03.08.2000
Dominic Matteo Leeds United £4,750,000 18.08.2000
Brad Friedel Blackburn Free 03.11.2000
Rigobert Song West Ham £2,500,000 28.11.2000
Steve Staunton Aston Villa Free 06.12.2000
Erik Meijer Hamburg SV Free 11.12.2000
Titi Camara West Ham £2,600,000 21.12.2000
Haukur I. Gudnason Keflavik Free 27.12.2000
Jon Newby Bury £100,000 20.03.2001
Ian Armstrong Port Vale Free* 01.07.2001
Leyton Maxwell Cardiff Free 04.07.2001
Christian Ziege Tottenham £4,000,000 17.07.2001
Robbie Fowler Leeds United £12,750,000 29.11.2001
Sander Westerveld Real Sociedad £3,750,000 17.12.2001
Alan Navarro Tranmere £225,000 23.01.2002
Frode Kippe Lillestrøm Free 01.03.2002
Jamie Redknapp Tottenham Free 16.04.2002
John Miles Stoke Free 20.04.2002
Nicolas Anelka Paris St Germain On Loan* 12.05.2002
Gary McAllister Coventry Free 13.05.2002
Jørgen Nielsen Farum Free* 01.07.2002
Nick Barmby Leeds United £3,750,000 08.08.2002
Stephen Wright Sunderland £3,000,000 15.08.2002
Jari Litmanen Ajax Free 30.08.2002
Bernard Diomede Ajaccio Free 01.07.2003
Pegguy Arphexad Coventry Free* 01.07.2003
Patrik Berger Portsmouth Free 01.07.2003
Vegard Heggem Unknown Free 01.07.2003
Daniel Sjolund Djurgården Free 15.01.2004
Paul Jones Southampton On Loan* 28.01.2004
Abel Xavier Hannover 96 Free* 02.02.2004
Emile Heskey Birmingham £6,250,000* 18.05.2004

Total 60.7 Million

Thats a Total of 64.7 Spent ( in 6 years, and deducting sales ) = 10 Million a year for Houllier


Rafa has Spent:

Josemi Rey Malaga £2,000,000 26.07.2004
Antonio Nunez Real Madrid £1,500,000* 17.08.2004
Xabi Alonso Real Sociedad £10,700,000 20.08.2004
Luis Garcia Barcelona £6,000,000 20.08.2004
Mauricio Pellegrino Valencia Free 05.01.2005
Fernando Morientes Real Madrid £6,300,000 13.01.2005
Scott Carson Leeds United £1,000,000 21.01.2005
Josh Mimms Rotherham United £50,000 16.06.2005
Antonio Barragan Sevilla £240,000 04.07.2005
Boudewijn Zenden Free Transfer Free* 04.07.2005
Jose Reina Villareal £6,000,000 04.07.2005
Mohamed Sissoko Valencia £5,600,000 14.07.2005
Peter Crouch Southampton £7,000,000 20.07.2005
Godwin Antwi Real Zaragoza Unknown 15.08.2005
Miki Roque Lleida Unknown 15.08.2005
Jack Hobbs Lincoln City £150,000* 18.08.2005
Besian Idrizaj LASK Linz £190,000* 22.08.2005
Ramon Calliste Free Transfer Free* 29.08.2005
Mark Gonzalez Albacete £1,500,000* 20.10.2005
Paul Anderson Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006
Jan Kromkamp Villareal Player Exchange* 04.01.2006
Daniel Agger Brøndby £5,800,000 12.01.2006
David Martin MK Dons £250,000* 12.01.2006
Robbie Fowler Man City Free 27.01.2006
Craig Bellamy Blackburn £6,000,000 01.07.2006
Gabriel Paletta Club Atlético Banfield £2,000,000 04.07.2006
Fábio Aurélio Valencia Free 05.07.2006
Jermaine Pennant Birmingham £6,700,000 26.07.2006
Dirk Kuyt Feyenoord £9,000,000 18.08.2006
Nabil El Zhar St Etienne £200,000 21.08.2006
Astrit Ajdarevic Falkenberg £750,000* 11.01.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria On Loan* 12.01.2007
Jordy Brouwer Ajax Undisclosed* 24.01.2007
Francisco Durán Malaga £66,000* 30.01.2007
Ronald Huth Tacuary FC Undisclosed 31.01.2007
Álvaro Arbeloa Deportivo £2,500,000 31.01.2007
Javier Mascherano West Ham On Loan 20.02.2007
Lucas Pezzini Leiva Gremio £5,000,000 11.05.2007
Sebastian Leto Club Atlético Lanús £1,800,000 01.07.2007
Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 04.07.2007
Andriy Voronin Leverkusen Free* 06.07.2007
Yossi Benayoun West Ham £5,000,000 12.07.2007
Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000 13.07.2007
Charles Itandje Lens Undisclosed 09.08.2007
Emiliano Insúa Boca Juniors £1,300,000* 26.08.2007

Total 126.2

Rafa Sold:

Markus Babbel VfB Stuttgart Free 16.07.2004
Danny Murphy Charlton £2,500,000 10.08.2004
Michael Owen Real Madrid £8,500,000* 14.08.2004
Stephane Henchoz Celtic Free 28.01.2005
Vladimir Smicer Bordeaux Free 13.06.2005
El Hadji Diouf Bolton £3,500,000 15.06.2005
Mauricio Pellegrino Alaves Free* 17.06.2005
Alou Diarra Lens £2,000,000 23.06.2005
Mark Smyth Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Paul Harrison Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Richie Partridge Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Gregory Vignal Portsmouth Free* 01.07.2005
Igor Biscan Panathinaikos Free* 01.07.2005
Jon Otsemobor Rotherham United Free* 01.07.2005
Patrice Luzi Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Antonio Nunez Celta Vigo £2,000,000* 29.07.2005
Milan Baros Aston Villa £6,500,000 23.08.2005
John Welsh Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006
Josemi Rey Villareal Player Exchange* 02.01.2006
Zak Whitbread Millwall £200,000 13.06.2006
Bruno Cheyrou Rennes Undisclosed 29.06.2006
Ramon Calliste Unknown Free* 01.07.2006
Robbie Foy Unknown Free* 01.07.2006
David Raven Carlisle £0* 03.07.2006
Fernando Morientes Valencia £3,000,000 05.07.2006
Dietmar Hamann Bolton Free 11.07.2006
Antonio Barragan Deportivo £675,000 03.08.2006
Djimi Traore Charlton £2,000,000 09.08.2006
Carl Medjani Lorient Free 12.08.2006
Neil Mellor Preston £500,000 30.08.2006
Jan Kromkamp PSV Eindhoven £1,750,000 31.08.2006
Chris Kirkland Wigan Ath. £3,500,000* 27.10.2006
Darren Potter Wolves £250,000* 18.01.2007
Stephen Warnock Blackburn £1,500,000 22.01.2007
Salif Diao Stoke Free 25.01.2007
Florent S Pongolle Recreativo de Huelva £2,700,000 04.05.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria Returns from loan 08.06.2007
Danny O' Donnell Crewe £100,000 13.06.2007
Jerzy Dudek Real Madrid Free* 01.07.2007
Robbie Fowler Cardiff Free* 01.07.2007
Boudewijn Zenden Marseille Free* 01.07.2007
Luis Garcia Atletico Madrid £4,000,000 03.07.2007
Djibril Cissé Marseille £6,000,000 09.07.2007
Craig Bellamy West Ham £7,500,000 10.07.2007
Mark Gonzalez Real Betis £3,500,000 17.07.2007
Gabriel Paletta Boca Juniors £1,200,000* 26.08.2007

Total = 63.4

So Rafa has spent 62.8 ( in 3.6 years again deducting sales )

64.7 and 63.4 = 128.1 Million over almost 10 years, averaging at 12.8 Million a year.



By the way That 128 Million got Liverpool

FA Cup 2001 2006

League Cup 2001 2003

European Cup 2005

UEFA Cup 2001

That is GOOD Business in anyones book.

As comprehensive as this list is, it takes no account of how much was paid to the players while they were here or how much was left on their contracts when they went.

Would you call selling Owen for £8.5m when he was 'worth' £40m good business or bad management for letting him spin out the end of his contract and lower his own value just to get away?

Even on a straight like-for-like contract basis, 3,5m was lost on Kirkland - Good enough goalkeeper but Good Business?

Even the infamous non-event Nunez stayed for one year and we recouped £500,000. Great, but how much did we pay him in the meantime while he was keeping someone good out of the team?

Not to mention the once-in-blue-moon-goal-wonder-I-think-the-sun-shines-out-of-my-mate- Rafa's-backside Morientes. Stayed for 18months; the club lost 3.3m plus pay.

It's not good enough to make up staggering losses by selling off players you didn't buy or by hiding wages under the carpet. If I was Hicks and Gillett, I'd be unhappy with Benitez as a commercial manager. Hence the "leave the money to Rick" and quite right too.

McManaman too ran down his contract, dillied and dallied - sold yous down the river and his worth was seen in the fact of what he won with Madrid.

McManaman too ran down his contract, dillied and dallied - sold yous down the river and his worth was seen in the fact of what he won with Madrid.

McManamans attitude turned after the club tried to sell him to Barcelona in the summer of 1997 for £12 million - after that he questioned whether or not he was wanted at Anfield but seemed to take the attitude of he'd go when he was ready to the club he wanted hence his move to Real Madrid for free.

A lot happened in those 2 years - we went from being the team who'd finished 4th in a 2 horse race but strenghened by signing Ince and Riedle to a team who couldnt even get in the UEFA Cup and gone through the joint managerial farce so its understandable that by then he saw his furture as being better served elsewhere.

With respect to the summer of 1997 and Liverpool trying to sell him, I believe that due way him and Fowler were running the club to its detriment they were ready to offload one of them for the right price.

As comprehensive as this list is, it takes no account of how much was paid to the players while they were here or how much was left on their contracts when they went.

Would you call selling Owen for £8.5m when he was 'worth' £40m good business or bad management for letting him spin out the end of his contract and lower his own value just to get away?
"leave the money to Rick" and quite right too.

Owen never played under Rafa, and you can't blame Rafa for letting Owens contract run down, that was Geds and Parrys fault!

Rafa had no option but to let him go and he got the best deal he could which was 8.5 Million and Nunez ( who was sold for 2 million) so we got 10.5 Million for him in total.

Owen was bought by Newcastle when he came back to England when Liverpool had made an offer, and thank the Lord thats where he ended up because he has only managed to play 24 games for them and scored 9 goals ( thats about 1.5 Million a goal)

Since he left Liverpool he's managed a total of 22 goals for Real and Newcastle.

As for leaving the money to Rick, I wouldn't leave him in charge of a raffle.

The list was about Houllier and Rafa together.

Rafa got to Istanbul with Houllier's players and then picked the wrong team to start - no holding midfielder and we got battered. THANK Heavens for Hamman.

So he had a drink with a few supporters and has read enough to know that keeping in with the fans is good for his own job, but are you bought so easily?

It's a game of spirit and big ideas. While Rafa tinkers with the carburettor for an extra half a mile per gallon - Ferguson roars past in his Bentley.

Both have no idea how to tackle premiership football. The club needs Hutzpah not bookkeepers.

It's a game of spirit and big ideas. While Rafa tinkers with the carburettor for an extra half a mile per gallon - Ferguson roars past in his Bentley.


Yeah but Ferguson took 7 years before he got that Bentley off the blocks.

And let's face it, Ferguson's Bentley would have been consigned to the scrap yard if we'd made our minds up about it after three years the way you have with Rafa.:rolleyes:

There are many exapmles of why Rafa will not make the grade the way Ferguson has.

For example his team selection, I found an ancient article in the Manchester Evening News complaining about Ferguson and why doesn't he pick his team the way Paisley does and Shankly did.

In the '70s and '80s when Liverpool were in their pomp, their two great managers Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley shared the same philosophy.

They identified their best team from the players available to them and, barring injuries, stuck to it.

Ferguson changed and kept his job and starting winning games and leagues.

Shankly himself said words to the effect that 'I pick my strongest teeam and let the opposition do the worrying'. No wonder the players are starting to play for themselves not the team.

Rafa seem totally obstinate and unwilling to learn from the club's own best experience. Having never played, he has none of his own.

Rafa seem totally obstinate and unwilling to learn from the club's own best experience. Having never played, he has none of his own.

Actually he has played, although not professionally.

"The young Benítez attended several schools throughout Madrid and played for various school teams. Among his school friends and team mates was Ricardo Gallego. He also showed his early potential as a coach when at the age of thirteen he began training a children’s football team. At the age of twelve Benítez joined the Real Madrid cantera. He progressed through the ranks, playing as a midfielder for both Real Madrid Aficionados in the Tercera División and Castilla CF, in the Segunda División. He also enrolled as a student at INEF, the sports faculty at the Universidad Politécnica de Madrid and in 1982 he obtained a degree in Physical Education.

In 1979 Benítez was selected to play for the Spain Universities XI at the World Student Games in Mexico City and he scored a penalty in the opening game, a 4-0 win against Cuba. In the next game, a 0-0 draw against Canada, he was injured following a hard tackle. The injury saw him sidelined for a year which realistically ended his chances of becoming a major player. "

Jose Mouriniho played even lessfootball.

"Mourinho completed a UEFA football coach course in Scotland before returning to Portugal to work as a high school coach.[2]

Mourinho's short playing career consisted of a few generally unsuccessful spells at small and medium sized Portuguese clubs during the years he was studying. He joined the youth team of Belenenses, and then played for Rio Ave F.C.. He later returned to Lisbon's Belenenses. Without success as a player, he ended his career playing for small amateur teams such as Sesimbra and Comércio e Indústria.

Leaving his job as a school coach, Mourinho was taken on in a backroom job at Estrela da Amadora by invitation of the then head coach Manuel Fernandes. He returned to his hometown to assist Vitória de Setúbal's staff in the early 1990s. Later, Mourinho earned the nickname Tradutor (translator), when he worked with Sir Bobby Robson as his translator (technically his interpreter) at both Sporting and then FC Porto.

He followed Robson to Barcelona in 1996, where he learned Catalan. When Robson was fired from Barcelona and consequently left for PSV, Mourinho stayed at the Nou Camp and worked with Robson's successor, Dutchman Louis van Gaal. Over time Mourinho began to participate actively in coaching sessions and management meetings and went on to coach FC Barcelona B."

Yeah but Ferguson took 7 years before he got that Bentley off the blocks.

And let's face it, Ferguson's Bentley would have been consigned to the scrap yard if we'd made our minds up about it after three years the way you have with Rafa.:rolleyes:


A big difference is often overlooked here though, didn't rafa inherit a team with CL qualities? Compare this to the state of Man utd when purple nose took over.

Also it looks like the end is nigh for Rafa but would Klinsmann had been the answer...

http://www.anfieldroad.com/news/200801142779/hicks-we-did-line-klinsmann-up-for-reds.html/



.

you missed your chance a few years ago when houlier was sick, phil thompson took the team ran it his way, got respect and results, then stepped aside when houlier was better, as a blue it was un-settling to see what he did in a short length of time, he's your man not that peter kay look-a-like

The Echo's story of it here...

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=tom-hicks-we-lined-up-jurgen-klinsmann%26method=full%26objectid=20347793%26site id=50061-name_page.html


.

he'll be gone before the end of the month i say

A big difference is often overlooked here though, didn't rafa inherit a team with CL qualities? Compare this to the state of Man utd when purple nose took over..

Not really Ged, Ferguson inherited a team that had finished either 3rd or 4th for 5 seasons in a row under Atkinson, which is pretty much the kind of team that Rafa inherited.


Also it looks like the end is nigh for Rafa but would Klinsmann had been the answer...


I wouldn't write Rafa off just yet, he still has the backing of the fans.

One thing is certain, I think Gillett and Hicks are in for a bit of a rude awakening on their next visit to Anfield.

One thing is certain, I think Gillett and Hicks are in for a bit of a rude awakening on their next visit to Anfield.

It seems to me that we Reds fans are getting a rude awakening almost weekly or even daily. What is going on seems eerily reminiscent of the last days of Houllier. :PDT_Xtremez_42:

Chris

Not really Ged, Ferguson inherited a team that had finished either 3rd or 4th for 5 seasons in a row under Atkinson, which is pretty much the kind of team that Rafa inherited.



I wouldn't write Rafa off just yet, he still has the backing of the fans.

One thing is certain, I think Gillett and Hicks are in for a bit of a rude awakening on their next visit to Anfield.


Pardon me Scouse but I think you best look up Man Utds paltry record just prior to him taking over - eg - that small club across the park from you walloped them 5-0 and (we walloped Forest 5 - 0 too) - they couldn't get a look in during the mid 80s when it was Merseypride.

West Ham, Spurs, Watford and Southampton were rivals to us back then.

Houllier had just won those 5 cups yous went on about forever and finished 2nd - the Senalgalese were bought and it was going to be the push for the big one you were all expecting. Rafa won the CL with Houlliers team didn't he?

Pardon me Scouse but I think you best look up Man Utds paltry record just prior to him taking over - eg - that small club across the park from you walloped them 5-0 and (we walloped Forest 5 - 0 too) - they couldn't get a look in during the mid 80s when it was Merseypride.

West Ham, Spurs, Watford and Southampton were rivals to us back then.

Houllier had just won those 5 cups yous went on about forever and finished 2nd - the Senalgalese were bought and it was going to be the push for the big one you were all expecting. Rafa won the CL with Houlliers team didn't he?

Your so called utd paltry record in the 80's would have seen them qualify for 5/5 CL's until Fergy joined and then they would have just featured once in 3 tries with fergy at the helm ( thats if todays rules applied )

81-82 Liverpool 1st Utd 3rd Everton 8th
82-83 Liverpool 1st Utd 3rd Everton 7th
83-84 Liverpool 1st Utd 4th Everton 7th
84-85 Everton 1st Liverpool 2nd Utd 4th
85-86 Liverpool 1st Everton 2nd Utd 4th
86-87 Liverpool 1st Everton 2nd Utd 11th (Ferguson in charge)
87-88 Liverpool 1st Utd 2nd Everton 4th
88-89 Arsenal 1st Liverpool 2nd Everton 8th Utd 11th

Oh and only 6 of Houlliers signings started the CL final and any mangager that can get Traore and Biscan a winners medal is a bloody genious!

Houllier had just won those 5 cups yous went on about forever and finished 2nd - the Senalgalese were bought and it was going to be the push for the big one you were all expecting. Rafa won the CL with Houlliers team didn't he?

Hi Ged and ScouseMouse

This is pretty much true if you look at the team on the park for the Istanbul match as shown below:

LIVERPOOL 3:3 AC MILAN (0:3) - Liverpool won 3-2 on penalties
(Istanbul, 25 May 2005, att 65, 000)

Liverpool: Jerzy Dudek, Steve Finnan (Dietmar Hamann 46), Djimi Traore, Sami Hyypia, Jamie Carragher, John Arne Riise, Steven Gerrard, Luis Garcia, Xabi Alonso, Harry Kewell (Vladimir Smicer 23), Milan Baros (Djibril Cisse 85)

Source: Football-Heroes (http://www.sporting-heroes.net/football-heroes/displayhero_eurochamps.asp?HeroID=10737)

-- all of those players, barring Luis Garcia and Xabi Alonso, had been either brought to Anfield or nurtured from Liverpool's lower ranks under Houllier's regime. Which bears out my contention that Houllier was not such a bad manager and that Benitez by contrast is not such a great manager as people make him out to be.

Chris

Oh and only 6 of Houlliers signings started the CL final and any mangager that can get Traore and Biscan a winners medal is a bloody genious!

Not true. See above. Nine out of eleven players on the park at the beginning of the match were Houllier's signings and the three substitutes (Hamann, Smicer, and Cisse) were all bought by Houllier as well.

Chris

Hi Ged and ScouseMouse

Which bears out my contention that Houllier was not such a bad manager and that Benitez by contrast is not such a great manager as people make him out to be.

Chris

Houllier got Liverpool back on the European Map, unfortunately something seemed to happen to him after his illness, and the team played the worst football I have ever witnessed didn't you watch matches back then?

Since Rafa joined we got The European Cup and FA Cup in his first 2 seasons (and also finished runners up in the League Cup and European cup by the end of his 3rd), thus making Liverpool the only British winners of any European Silverware this Century ( Geds EUFA Cup 2001 and Rafa's European Cup 2005 ).

He has also amassed Liverpools best ever points since we last won the League ( 2 points more than Houlliers 2nd place finishing team).

Given some time and patience he will get Liverpool back to the top, of that I have no doubt.

Thank you Chris.

Asbo, 4th was nothing then and it should be nothing now too but for Uefa. Man Utd were a decent cup team who hadn't won the league for nearly 20 years when he took over, a bit like yourselves now in fact.

Not true. See above. Nine out of eleven players on the park at the beginning of the match were Houllier's signings and the three substitutes (Hamann, Smicer, and Cisse) were all bought by Houllier as well.

Chris

Here are all of Houlliers signings:

Jean Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1,500,000 28.11.1998
Frode Kippe Lillestrøm £700,000 06.01.1999
Rigobert Song Salernitana £2,600,000 26.01.1999
Djimi Traore Laval £550,000 18.02.1999
Sami Hyypia Willem II £2,500,000 19.05.1999
Vladimir Smicer Lens £3,750,000 24.05.1999
Titi Camara Marseille £2,600,000 01.06.1999
Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3,500,000 02.06.1999
Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnhem £4,000,000 15.06.1999
Erik Meijer Leverkusen Free* 01.07.1999
Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8,000,000 22.07.1999
Emile Heskey Leicester £11,000,000 10.03.2000
Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3,000,000 07.06.2000
Gary McAllister Coventry Free 01.07.2000
Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free* 01.07.2000
Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free* 01.07.2000
Nick Barmby Everton £6,000,000 18.07.2000
Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5,500,000 25.08.2000
Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000 22.09.2000
Daniel Sjolund West Ham £1,000,000 28.11.2000
Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5,500,000 07.12.2000
Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free 04.01.2001
John Arne Riise Monaco £4,000,000 20.06.2001
Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3,200,000 26.07.2001
Chris Kirkland Coventry £6,000,000* 31.08.2001
Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4,850,000 31.08.2001
Nicolas Anelka Paris St Germain On Loan* 20.12.2001
Abel Xavier Everton £750,000 30.01.2002
Bruno Cheyrou Lille £3,700,000 16.05.2002
El Hadji Diouf Lens £10,000,000 01.06.2002
Alou Diarra Bayern Munich Free 09.07.2002
Patrice Luzi Monaco Free 29.07.2002
Salif Diao Sedan £4,700,000 06.08.2002
Steve Finnan Fulham £3,500,000 01.07.2003
Anthony Le Tallec Le Havre £1,500,000* 01.07.2003
Florent S Pongolle Le Havre £1,500,000* 01.07.2003
Harry Kewell Leeds United £5,000,000 09.07.2003
Carl Medjani St Etienne Free 08.08.2003
Paul Jones Southampton On Loan* 09.01.2004
Djibril Cissé Auxerre £14,500,000* 01.07.2004

Here are the starting 11 for the CL Final

1 Jerzy Dudek
3 Steve Finnan
4 Sami Hyypia
6 John Arne Riise
21 Djimi Traore
23 Jamie Carragher
7 Harry Kewell
8 Steven Gerrard
14 Xabi Alonso
10 Luis Garcia
5 Milan Baros

Thank you Chris.

Asbo, 4th was nothing then and it should be nothing now too but for Uefa. Man Utd were a decent cup team who hadn't won the league for nearly 20 years when he took over, a bit like yourselves now in fact.

Yes pity the same can't be said of Everton, there not even a decent cup team are they?

Given some time and patience he will get Liverpool back to the top, of that I have no doubt.

Possibly but the results continue to be dire and inconsistent. A nice win one week, 8-0 or 5-0 or 3-0, then a blank scoresheet or a 1-1 draw the next. It's not good enough.

Chris

Yes pity the same can't be said of Everton, there not even a decent cup team are they?

They got knocked out of the FA Cup by Oldham but they are doing well in the League Cup and the UEFA Cup. I'm a Red but I have been impressed with Everton this season the times I have been able to watch a complete match.

Chris

So more than only 6 of his signings started the game then and 2 more came on and 2 were home grown (nurtured by him) :rolleyes:

Possibly but the results continue to be dire and inconsistent. A nice win one week, 8-0 or 5-0 or 3-0, then a blank scoresheet or a 1-1 draw the next. It's not good enough.

Chris

If we win our game in hand we are 9 points off the top of the table with just under half a season to play , thats improvement to me.

We finished 3rd the last 2 seasons, THATS improvement, we no longer HOPE to qualify for Europe we take it for granted.

Rafa's hands have been tied regarding transfers, he had to build up a squad first, and now he is a position to strengthen ( a'la Torres ). Given patience and a couple of good signings we are home and dry, can't you see that?

Yes pity the same can't be said of Everton, there not even a decent cup team are they?


Aha you see but here's where you fall into the trap my man.

This isn't about Everton - we know our limits, Peter Johnson (that kopite) shafted us and so we had to sell Rooney just to stay afloat, it must rankle with you that the little club is on your coat-tails - just banter my freind.

Some one mentioned a Bentley going past and drew comparisons with Man Utd, i'm just setting the correct record straight that's all - no need to get all upperty :)

When we spend 50m a season, then I too will expect more - until then????

We know we're not there yet, yous just think you are though.:rolleyes:

Aha you see but here's where you fall into the trap my man.



Hmm but I meant it, it wasn't a sly dig?

Me and my mates used to go a match a week in the 60's 70's and see whoever was at home, I'm one of the (old) old school that genuinely wants Everton to win anything we are out of, and theres a couple of my blue mates that still don't mind it the other way around.

edited here, I hope you beat Chelski 2-0 in the 2nd leg and teach those arrogant cockneys a humility lesson, and then I hope you go on and lift the cup in the final, just for the joy on my friends faces and the banter we'll have in the pub afterwards.

I like you Asbo.

Really.

:)

I think the owners are being unfair on Raffa by saying what they did about Klinsman ( if its not just paper talk like )

most Liverpool fans i know like Raffa, so the owners should tread careful on this one me thinks.

I like you Asbo.

Really.

:)


Some of my posts may come across as aggressive ( I think after reading what people said in later posts) but I never meant to come across that way, I'll fiercely defend my team and use as many facts as i can to back it up, but none of it is meant to be hostile or derogatory in any way.

I think the owners are being unfair on Raffa by saying what they did about Klinsman ( if its not just paper talk like )

most Liverpool fans i know like Raffa, so the owners should tread careful on this one me thinks.

Its not paper talk, theres a direct quote today in Liverpools Echo confirming they did make an approach.

Rafa's hands have been tied regarding transfers, he had to build up a squad first, and now he is a position to strengthen ( a'la Torres ). Given patience and a couple of good signings we are home and dry, can't you see that?

Hi Asbo

I'd like to believe that things could change around this season but I think we have already lost too much ground. Looks to me as if this will be another so-so season in regard to the Premier League. Maybe we can do better in the cup competitions, but even there we have been playing inconsistently, like world beaters one match and terrible the next. There are too many players who are not pulling their weight and making bad passes: Voronin, Kuyt, Sissoko, Riise, even Alonso has not been the same player since he came back from injury.

Chris

So more than only 6 of his signings started the game then and 2 more came on and 2 were home grown (nurtured by him) :rolleyes:

You can't say Gerrard and Carragher were nurtured by Houllier, they were nurtured by Thompson Evans and Lee, we saw what nurturing Houllier did with home grown talent when he sold Robbie Fowler to Leeds!

The way Fowler was treated was a disgrace.

Hi Asbo

I'd like to believe that things could change around this season but I think we have already lost too much ground. Looks to me as if this will be another so-so season in regard to the Premier League. Maybe we can do better in the cup competitions, but even there we have been playing inconsistently, like world beaters one match and terrible the next. There are too many players who are not pulling their weight and making bad passes: Voronin, Kuyt, Sissoko, Riise, even Alonso has not been the same player since he came back from injury.

Chris

Rafa has just said (yesterday) that Sissoko can leave, I expect him to be gone by the end of the week, that'll be 10 Million towards Maschers signing fee's.

Mohamed Sissoko was a great player in his first couple of seasons, but he can't pass a ball to save his life, and we need better ( well we have better allready with Lucas Pezzini Leiva and Javier Mascherano )

I still think Everton are better.

:PDT_Piratz_26::)

Yes but there were 7 GH signings that started and 2 more came on. There are still a heck of a lot of teams and their supporters who'd like to be in Lfc's boots, we're just happy to be gatecrashing but 4 teams on 39 points whooohooo, it's tough near the top but history usually says that those who spent most end up highest(ish)

Yes but there were 7 GH signings that started and 2 more came on. There are still a heck of a lot of teams and their supporters who'd like to be in Lfc's boots, we're just happy to be gatecrashing but 4 teams on 39 points whooohooo, it's tough near the top but history usually says that those who spent most end up highest(ish)

What happened in Istanbul that will (most likely) never be repeated?

and its not coming back from 0-3 down to win.

What happened in Istanbul that will (most likely) never be repeated?

and its not coming back from 0-3 down to win.


Well seeing as there are no takers I'll answer my own question.

That Match started at 10 in the evening local time and after extra time and penalties finished the next day, so Vladimir Smicer became the only man to score 2 goals on different days in the same match ( with his penalty )

It seems to me that we Reds fans are getting a rude awakening almost weekly or even daily. What is going on seems eerily reminiscent of the last days of Houllier. :PDT_Xtremez_42:

Chris

It worries me Chris that those two boneheads might fire Rafa or that Rafa himself might just give them both a f*ck off tablet and quit (and I wouldn't blame him if he did).

The actual circumstances are so very different now than in the last days of Houllier. Houllier had lost the respect of the players and the confidence of the fans.

That ain't the case with Rafa.

So more than only 6 of his signings started the game then and 2 more came on and 2 were home grown (nurtured by him) :rolleyes:

I can guarantee that Houllier had nothing to do with with "nuturing" any home grown talent, I'm pretty sure that he didn't even know where the Acadamy was. I don't think we've ever had a manager who was as reluctant to give the youngsters a chance the way Houllier was.

I can guarantee that Houllier had nothing to do with with "nuturing" any home grown talent, I'm pretty sure that he didn't even know where the Acadamy was. I don't think we've ever had a manager who was as reluctant to give the youngsters a chance the way Houllier was.

This might be a bit scathing of Houllier, IMHO. After all, Michael Owen's Liverpool career flourished under Houllier, and other local products that did well and were used as a basis of the team were Danny Murphy, Jamie Carragher, and Stevie Gerrard. The first thing that Rafa did was to sell off Owen and Murphy and bring in a mixed bunch of Spaniards. I don't blame him for wanting to bring in his own players but I am not sure you can make the case that Rafa has favored local lads over foreign players more than Houllier did.

Chris

I think todays comments about them lining up Klinsman are designed to make rafa quit so they dont have to pay him off.

All this has really made me mad its no wonder the team can't play whilst all this chit chat is going on. The American pair should not have come out with this as it only unsettles everybody. I for one would no more want Klinsman for a manager he is a lucky so and so who got lucky with Germany but has no track record as a manager. These men have no feelings for Liverpool they only see it as a money making venture and I think have misjudged the passion we have for our club. I hope they sell to sombody who at least knows about football and go back to there business in America and make their fortune on the back of somebody else not LFC.

Regarting Everton I hope you beat Chelsea and do well in the league (not at our expense admitidly) but as things are at the moment we will be lucky to finnish in the top 4 all this talk has unsettled the whole team and I'm for one not sure they can get their heads together in time to pull it back. Everybody loves their club and as a true red I want this whole episode to end whether Raffa is here at the end of the season or not I want Liverpool to be great again. The Liverpool board owe it to the fans to get it sorted I think the American Pair have totally underestimated the passion we have for our club.

This might be a bit scathing of Houllier, IMHO. After all, Michael Owen's Liverpool career flourished under Houllier, and other local products that did well and were used as a basis of the team were Danny Murphy, Jamie Carragher, and Stevie Gerrard. The first thing that Rafa did was to sell off Owen and Murphy and bring in a mixed bunch of Spaniards. I don't blame him for wanting to bring in his own players but I am not sure you can make the case that Rafa has favored local lads over foreign players more than Houllier did.

Chris

The point I was trying to make was the Houllier was never a hands on kind of manager and had nothing to do with any of the players that came out of the Acadamy, in fact he never went there. If you go and see a training session right now you'll see Rafa out there working with the players and the chances are he'd be at the Acadamy, that was never the case during Houllier's reign, he'd be up in his office or watching them out of the window (like the head master he was probably more suited to be).

Owen was already a world class star when he arrived, Carragher already a regular Gerrard was ready to make his debut and would have flourished no matter who was in charge. Danny Murphy was already there (signed by Roy Evans iirc).

I've always been supportive of our managers Chris, but Houllier was a tough one to take to. We've brought a lot of former players over to Toronto and I've yet to meet a single one that had a good word to say about him.

I think todays comments about them lining up Klinsman are designed to make rafa quit so they dont have to pay him off.

Im a Blue and I hope Raffa does not Quit. dont be pushed Raffa

Hope he stands up to them, most fans like him.

I believe he will stay as manager

This might be a bit scathing of Houllier, IMHO. After all, Michael Owen's Liverpool career flourished under Houllier, and other local products that did well and were used as a basis of the team were Danny Murphy, Jamie Carragher, and Stevie Gerrard. The first thing that Rafa did was to sell off Owen and Murphy and bring in a mixed bunch of Spaniards. I don't blame him for wanting to bring in his own players but I am not sure you can make the case that Rafa has favored local lads over foreign players more than Houllier did.

Chris


Danny Murphy was born in Chester Chris, thats 28.9 miles away and 3 miles closer than Manchester to us, you wouldn't call someone from Manchester a local surely?

Rafa didn't sell Owen as such, Owen wanted to leave and nothing was going to keep him here, why people persist in that line I do not know?

The 'mixed bunch of Spaniards' he bought in 2004 were Alonso Garcia and Josemi Rey, he also got Nunez squeezed out of the Owen deal.

I wish little Luis was still with us, his midfield goals are really missed at the moment, and he always seemed to score at the big occasions didn't he?

Lfc lining up a 'Spanish' replacement manager........

can't see why keegan isn't keen, he is available, they do have the money, / he'd rather go to a gang of proven losers than the team that made him a god, it's all a bit mad

Lfc lining up a 'Spanish' replacement manager........


The 10am news is on here now - it's being confirmed as I listen.

who's the new manager , manuel from fawlty towers, he'd do well after the last lot

Liverpool's new manager is..........


PICASSO.


Because he's good at drawing too ha ha!!!

lol

Danny Murphy was born in Chester Chris, thats 28.9 miles away and 3 miles closer than Manchester to us, you wouldn't call someone from Manchester a local surely?

Rafa didn't sell Owen as such, Owen wanted to leave and nothing was going to keep him here, why people persist in that line I do not know?

The 'mixed bunch of Spaniards' he bought in 2004 were Alonso Garcia and Josemi Rey, he also got Nunez squeezed out of the Owen deal.

I wish little Luis was still with us, his midfield goals are really missed at the moment, and he always seemed to score at the big occasions didn't he?


Chester is more local than Barcelona or Bratislava, and wasn't Owen from down there too? I liked Garcia and was sorry to see him go. Yes he did come up big when it counted.

Chris

Liverpool's new manager is..........


PICASSO.


Because he's good at drawing too ha ha!!!

Ohhh just finishing off my christmas roasts, got this Old Ham left, but won't let it beat me :unibrow:

Danny Murphy was born in Chester Chris, thats 28.9 miles away and 3 miles closer than Manchester to us, you wouldn't call someone from Manchester a local surely?

Rafa didn't sell Owen as such, Owen wanted to leave and nothing was going to keep him here, why people persist in that line I do not know?

The 'mixed bunch of Spaniards' he bought in 2004 were Alonso Garcia and Josemi Rey, he also got Nunez squeezed out of the Owen deal.

I wish little Luis was still with us, his midfield goals are really missed at the moment, and he always seemed to score at the big occasions didn't he?

chester aint liverpool, but it is local, and if we are honest owen is welsh really isn't he.

houlier is the new newcastle manager, that leaves keegan free to mop up the mess at anfield, bar for allerdyce there aint much experienced talent around.jumping the gun, me mum said don't tell anyone yet

Q: What's the difference between big Sam and a pregnant woman.

A: A pregnant woman gets nine months to deliver.

Liverpool's new manager is..........


PICASSO.


Because he's good at drawing too ha ha!!!

LOL

How can I post this pic from Red and White Kop?

Its a really powerful image and ideal for this G&H thread.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9074/rickandcobx3.png

nm figured it out

A good image, Asbo, thanks.

Chris

Alan Hansen's view
By Alan Hansen
BBC Sport football expert

Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks's admission that he spoke to Jurgen Klinsmann about becoming the team manager is an amazing story.

I haven't got a clue why he has come out and said this; maybe the story was going to come out and he thought he'd be better off making a statement first.

Whichever way you look at it though, these events cannot do anything but undermine manager Rafael Benitez. . . .

Players aren't really interested in new stadiums and things like that, it doesn't affect them. But when something affects the manager who is picking the team and influencing their careers, you can bet it will start to have an impact on them.

Liverpool are obviously struggling at the minute.

They have had four draws on the trot, they are 12 points adrift of Manchester United and Arsenal in the Premier League, and I think this is the last thing they need.

It has definitely come at a bad time. There's never a great time for stories like this to come out, but it's far better if you are flying. They are off the pace and it will be interesting to see how this one pans out.

Insurance policy or whatever Hicks wants to call it - and we have to take him at his word because he is apparently a man of great integrity - the fact is he met Klinsmann and offered him the job if Benitez went, which is remarkable.

I think that in the Premier League, every manager apart from Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger are two games away from the sack, so things might not have changed much from that point of view. . . .

Complete article (also his views on the open managerial position at Newcastle) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7186955.stm)

How can I post this pic from Red and White Kop?

Its a really powerful image and ideal for this G&H thread.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9074/rickandcobx3.png

nm figured it out

You to Brute ?

You to Brute ?

Maybe

"You *****, Rick!"

Ohh can't say rick with a P in the front, it was a play on words :)

The thing to be worried about, whether it was an insurance policy in case rafa walked (and isn't he under contract anyway) or a ploy to make Rafa walk or a lining up of somebody after Rafa's sacking, is the fact that they think Klinsmann is good enough. That shows the mind set of the men in charge that they'd settle for someone like that so now that all this is out, should Rafa walk (like they might want to save compo), Klinsmann is not now available so who next - another 2nd rater???

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/tm_headline=dic-to-make-bid-for-liverpool-fc%26method=full%26objectid=20361594%26siteid=5006 1-name_page.html

He's modelling the new kit too :unibrow:

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/tm_headline=dic-to-make-bid-for-liverpool-fc%26method=full%26objectid=20361594%26siteid=5006 1-name_page.html

He's modelling the new kit too :unibrow:

Shouldn't you be posting in the Tesco Tearaways section?

English money, from a true blue too ;)

Someone asked me today if I had any clues as to who liverpool are playing in the next round of the cup.

'Havant' I said.

English money, from a true blue too ;)

Someone asked me today if I had any clues as to who liverpool are playing in the next round of the cup.

'Havant' I said.

Thats so coincidental, someone asked me who Everton were playing in the next round of the cup.

Isn't I said.

Can't believe your letting McFadden go, I wonder who you got lined up as replacement?

I think you'll find we're 90 mins from Wembley at the mo <tip my hat>

Whereas.......

Everyone knows that when you play Utd, Arsenal or Chelsea later on in the F.A. cup - there'll only be one loser ;)

Mind you, lfc are a decent cup team as has been said before, it's a pity that in the marathon though, you can only keep up with teams who've spend half as much ;) ;) (that deserves 2 winks)

McFadden can frustrate at times but still, with Yak being away, i'd have kept hold of him. I don't think anyone is lined up with Johnson, Anichebe and Vaughan vying to play in a system that only uses one of them with Cahill just behind.

I think Cahill is wasted in midfield as in the 1st leg of the CC semi - he was anonymous.

I think they're going to use the money to buy any of the on loan players such as Pienaar, Fernandes or possibly Sidwell who it looks like we're interested in, he's a good player him.

I think you'll find we're 90 mins from Wembley at the mo <tip my hat>

Whereas.......

Everyone knows that when you play Utd, Arsenal or Chelsea later on in the F.A. cup - there'll only be one loser ;)

Mind you, lfc are a decent cup team as has been said before, it's a pity that in the marathon though, you can only keep up with teams who've spend half as much ;) ;) (that deserves 2 winks)

Haha

Man United Summer 2007 = 51 Million NOT COUNTING Tevez

Owen Hargreaves Bayern Munich £17,000,000

Anderson FC Porto £17,000,000

Nani Sporting Lisbon £14,000,000

Tomasz Kuszczak West Brom £3,000,000

Carlos Tevez West Ham Utd Undisclosed

Liverpool Summer 2007 Just under 48 Million

Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000

Andriy Voronin Bayer Leverkusen Free

Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £21,500,000

Yossi Benayoun West Ham United £5,000,000

Lucas Leiva Gremio £8,000,000

Sebastian Leto Lanus £1,800,000.

You will find ManUre spent more this Summer and thats with a Champion winning side,and not even counting Tevez!

But please don't let facts stop your attempted digs, after all you are a bitter and its expected.

Ohh and if you remember we played Chelsea and Man U on the way to winning our FA Cup last time :PDT11

Edit that decent cup side as you put it has won ( this century )

2 FA Cups

2 League Cups

2 European Supercups

UEFA Cup

European Cup.

Its called success ( in case you forgot the word )

I think you've misread what i've stated Asbo?

I've not mentioned Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal, they are teams you can't keep up with, I mean the other 3 teams you are neck and neck with on 39 points - the attempted digs as you put it :rolleyes: carry substance.

Now. Please do read it again. :)

Edit..you conveniently left out 12M rated Macherano or however you spell it, unless of course you're not buying him and he doesn't in fact exist and hasn't played for you this season???

Ha ha super cups - is that the one contested between 2 teams and you've lost half a dozen games in the CL - including Graz in the qualifier, it's why I can't take the title given to it 'Champions' league seriously and you didn't even qualify one season, coming 5th but they changed the rules for you ;)

Ha ha super cups - is that the one contested between 2 teams and you've lost half a dozen games in the CL - including Graz in the qualifier, it's why I can't take the title given to it 'Champions' league seriously and you didn't even qualify one season, coming 5th but they changed the rules for you ;)

Ohh sorry mate, i was only counting top 4 clubs not the little clubs!

Shall I do a list of things we have won since your lot last lifted something? I only went back to 2001 in my list. ( thats 5 and a half years )

Ohh I counted the Supercups because you HAVE to win a cup to play for it?

Anyway seeing as Toffee Web lists everything you have been runners up in as a club honor I thought it was a valid inclusion?

Both offical club sites list runners-up.

You have to win a cup to enter the charity shield but I never list them or even think about them but eh oh, it takes all sorts.

Great penalty kings, i'll give you that, 3 different cups won on them, if only England players were as good, we may have been in 2 finals :)

Both offical club sites list runners-up.

You have to win a cup to enter the charity shield but I never list them or even think about them but eh oh, it takes all sorts.

Great penalty kings, i'll give you that, 3 different cups won on them, if only England players were as good, we may have been in 2 finals :)

Oh I forgot to reply Mascherano is a loan players, Rafa wanted to sign him this window but was told no, its what started the whole argument.

btw Liverpool don't list runners up in our honors, heres the official websites list of honors

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/lfc_story/honours/

Oh, it must be only small clubs like us that have to list the runners up, sorry about that.

2nd is nowhere to yous obviously ;)

Yet 4th and CL money is now the saviour.

But enough of the banter, will yous get Mascherano and if yous don't get 4th by some chance, would he be considered worth it anyway?

You may have the DIC millions by then anyway.

You have to win a cup to enter the charity shield

Er no actually you don't.

You have to win a cup to enter the charity shield

:)

Like Everton had when they appeared in 1986 :)

Er no actually you don't.

Ok trophy if you want to be pedantic :rolleyes:

You knew what I meant, you had to win something to be in it in the first place (unless a team does the double of course) :unibrow: Mainly because a team that's done the double can't play itself.:rolleyes:

Ok trophy if you want to be pedantic :rolleyes:

You knew what I meant, you had to win something to be in it in the first place (unless a team does the double of course) :unibrow: Mainly because a team that's done the double can't play itself.:rolleyes:

Ahhh you got there in the end Ged :handclap:

I wasn't being pedantic, Liverpool and Everton have both played for the shield having won nowt the season before.

Due to being runners up to double winners. How often does that happen :rolleyes:

Anyway, don't belittle the runners-up position when 4th is the new goal for each of us.

Reds will pay 30M interest per year.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/tm_headline=reds-will-pay-pound-30m-a-year-interest%26method=full%26objectid=20407871%26sitei d=50061-name_page.html


.

Reds will pay 30M interest per year.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/tm_headline=reds-will-pay-pound-30m-a-year-interest%26method=full%26objectid=20407871%26sitei d=50061-name_page.html


.

The meltown begins, we dont even make that from gate receipts at the moment.

Due to being runners up to double winners. How often does that happen :rolleyes:

Anyway, don't belittle the runners-up position when 4th is the new goal for each of us.

Which is exactly what I said back in October and was mocked for it.

Due to being runners up to double winners. How often does that happen :rolleyes:

Anyway, don't belittle the runners-up position when 4th is the new goal for each of us.

4th is the MINIMUM for Liverpool, we usually get a cup too, like the FA in 2006 or the European in 2005, or the UEFA as in 2001 or even the League Cup as in 2001 also.

4th is the MINIMUM for Liverpool, we usually get a cup too, like the FA in 2006 or the European in 2005, or the UEFA as in 2001 or even the League Cup as in 2001 also.

I agree 4th should be the minimum for LFC but it appears some of the players and maybe the manager don't understand that. As far as I can see the Yanks have provided millions for a new stadium and millions for new players all they ask of rafa in return is to win games and that clearly isn't happening. The Yanks don't pick the team,and the Yanks don't choose the players.

I agree 4th should be the minimum for LFC but it appears some of the players and maybe the manager don't understand that. As far as I can see the Yanks have provided millions for a new stadium and millions for new players all they ask of rafa in return is to win games and that clearly isn't happening. The Yanks don't pick the team,and the Yanks don't choose the players.

I am a Red but I think that criticism of the present situation could be leveled at both the owners and Rafa. The team is clearly not producing on the field with a string of either bad results or shaky points or wins. The fans have demonstrated on behalf of Rafa but he needs to start pulling things together to make this a more satisfactory season.

Chris

Reds will pay 30M interest per year.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/tm_headline=reds-will-pay-pound-30m-a-year-interest%26method=full%26objectid=20407871%26sitei d=50061-name_page.html


.

Corr-Wrong!

The debt on the club was part of a wider £350m deal that also saw the co-owners taking on £245m through their Kop Football Holdings company, and will see around £30m in interest being paid annually.

Liverpool FC will be responsible for its chunk, and Hicks and Gillett for that of Kop.

So as the club have only a 3rd of that loan 'on the books' they will have to pay £10 Million and Kop Shareholdings will pay £20 Million.

When work on the new Stadium is finished ( which will be the most modern stadium in the world ) the club will get additional seats which will also increase profits.

The new stadium will, of course, help bring in extra cash, as would increased revenue from future TV deals.

Anfield currently seats 45,000, while the new stadium could potentially accommodate 71,000 fans.

Based on an average ticket price of £30, the club could make £2.1m from every home game.

If the club were to only play the min- imum 19 Premier League matches, its revenues would still increase by £14.8m a year with sell- outs, even before additional corporate hospitality profits.

It is understood the club will also look to secure a huge naming rights deal of around £100m, similar to Arsenal’s Emirates deal.

So in effect the £10 Million a year will be covered by the new infux of supporters watching the games and that ALONE will leave the club just short of FIVE MILLION a year in profit, just going on League matches and NOT EVEN factoring in Cup Runs.

Add cup runs, concerts and most importantly SEASON TICKET SALES ( Liverpool have a 12 year waiting list for season tickets ) and even the most biased of blues (thats you Ged) can see that the loan on the clubs books is nothing to worry about.

If they get the 1 Million name deal like the Emirates did it will wipe out the loan on the clubs books in one fell swoop.

The Futures Bright, the futures Liverpools!

i reckon another draw by this time tomorrow and rafa will be having an all day english brekky with freshly squeezed sangria in benidorm before the weekend.the american connection are playing a game with him by spouting he's their man for the next 2 and a half years, why would they , sunderland have a better home record 21 points at home than them, and they are in the frame to possibly go down. i shouldn't say this but i love football regardless, get phil thompson back when your backs were to the wall he held it together and got good results. theres a lot more to the bloke than selling 2nd rate doors in kirkby.

''But today’s bombshell news that it is the club, and not Hicks and Gillett, which will have to meet interest payments on both sections of the loan will put huge financial pressure on Liverpool to qualify for the lucrative Champions League every season.


A spokesman from Financial Dynamics, the City PR company representing Hicks, said: “The holding company debt is supported by the assets it acquired and should there ever be any shortfall in cash flow at the club or anywhere else in Kop in any given year, Kop’s ownership, under the terms of the financing package, is prepared to fund whatever is required.''

''But today’s bombshell news that it is the club, and not Hicks and Gillett, which will have to meet interest payments on both sections of the loan will put huge financial pressure on Liverpool to qualify for the lucrative Champions League every season.


A spokesman from Financial Dynamics, the City PR company representing Hicks, said: “The holding company debt is supported by the assets it acquired and should there ever be any shortfall in cash flow at the club or anywhere else in Kop in any given year, Kop’s ownership, under the terms of the financing package, is prepared to fund whatever is required.''

Yes Ged if the Millionaires Hicks and Gillet are ever bankrupted the Club will have to pay the interest for them because they would be unable.

The source here says it is the club that will meet interest payments on both sections of the loan. In any case they wouldn't have to be bankrupted, it says even a shortfall in cashflow at 'kop' would result in interest payments having to be made in full by the club, so get betting on how long it will be before 'shortfalls' in 'Kop' happen. It's all over other forums and a chartered accountant says it's the oldest trick in the book.

I actually do hope you're right, this isn't meant as a snipe at lfc fans, it's not their fault and I hate these shoitester types coming in and undermining long standing establishments of any kind.

WHEN are the fans gonna start blaming this stupid Spaniard for the problems at the moment? West Ham 1 Liverpool 0 and now possibly down to seventh in the table!!!!!! Simply not good enough from rafa a manager who seems to completely misunderstand the English Premiership.

Are the Yanks to blame for this result as well? :eek:

WHEN are the fans gonna start blaming this stupid Spaniard for the problems at the moment? West Ham 1 Liverpool 0 and now possibly down to seventh in the table!!!!!! Simply not good enough from rafa a manager who seems to completely misunderstand the English Premiership.

Are the Yanks to blame for this result as well? :eek:

Enough said. I agree with you.

Chris

We will be lucky to get in the UEFA Cup at this rate.

From "West Ham 1-0 Liverpool: Reds' title dream over" on Soccernet, Wed., Jan. 30, 2008 (http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/report?id=234171&cc=5739):

Even a draw would have left Rafael Benitez's men still well off the pace for the title and they remain without a win in the league since Boxing Day. . . .

The Spaniard said: 'Yes. We will improve. Because we can improve.'

'Did we deserve to lose? I think we deserved to win.

'If you analyse the game, you can talk about the game. If you analyse the result you can talk about the result.

'I am a manager, so I have some experience. We must think about how to improve, how to take our chances and how to win games.'

Yes Rafa that would really help. :rolleyes:

Liverpool's title hopes are over for another season - Jamie CarragherJan 31 2008

by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

JAMIE CARRAGHER today admitted Liverpool's title hopes are over for another year and held up his hands for giving away the last gasp penalty which condemned the Reds to a 1-0 defeat at West Ham last night.

The Reds centre-back felled Freddie Ljungberg in the box as the West Ham man prepared to shoot on goal and Mark Noble fired home the resultant 93rd minute spot kick.

Despite the sickening setback, Carragher says the Liverpool players must now shake off their disappointment and focus on qualifying for next season's Champions League.

He said: "It's always better in hindsight but maybe I should have just let Ljungberg shoot.

"I'll have to see the incident again but maybe I shouldn't have dived in.

"I just felt he was about to pull the trigger and I flew across to try and block the shot but he's come the other way and I think my left foot slipped underneath me and caught him.

"I don't think it's down to luck or anything like that – I've always said you get what you deserve in football and if results aren't going well like they're not at the moment that's something we've got to turn around quickly.


"I think the league has gone and we've got to realise that we're fighting with Everton, Aston Villa and Man City for that top four place.


"The teams at the top are a long way away and we've got to just focus on the Sunderland game on Saturday and try and get three points from that.


"It's been a few games now since we got all three points and we need to get more points on the board."


Liverpool have now failed to win in the Premiership since a 2-1 victory over Derby County on Boxing Day but Carragher insists he does not believe their winless run has been caused by a lack of effort.


"I think the desire is there," he said.


"West Ham is a tough place to go and obviously we're not playing great and confidence is a bit low but if we'd got a point here it would have been a step in the right direction.


"It's not all doom and gloom, though. We're still in two very big cup competitions and, as I say, we want to do well in them, but the league form isn't good enough and the sooner we sort that out the better.


"At the moment things aren't going for us, but I don't think it's about luck.”


tonybarrett@liverpoolecho.co.uk

Parry calls for end to Liverpool civil war

Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry has called for everyone associated with the club to stop washing their dirty linen in public and unite after weeks of turmoil on and off the pitch. . . .

More at Soccernet (http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/news/story?id=505511&cc=5739)

Parry calls for end to Liverpool civil war

Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry has called for everyone associated with the club to stop washing their dirty linen in public and unite after weeks of turmoil on and off the pitch. . . .

More at Soccernet (http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/news/story?id=505511&cc=5739)

He would say that wouldnt he given he brought these investors in and the first thing a new buyer will do is kick his incompetent arse out of Anfield.