Police on Merseyside are investigating the shooting of a man in a pub.
Officers were called to the Quiet Man pub in Longview Drive in the Huyton area of Liverpool on Friday night.

A man walked in and fired at a 42-year-old man, hitting him in the leg. His injuries are not thought to be life-threatening.

The area around the pub has been cordoned off while police investigations continue into the shooting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7076708.stm

More gun crime :disgust:

I don't even take any notice now.

I'ts become so commonplace, most times I don't bother to read about it.

I woulda been shocked at that some years ago but like most we say "oh,was there" instead of "isn't that terrible,that's shocking".

The way Liverpool is now.

The way Liverpool is now.

but its not unique to Liverpool - Manchester Birmingham and London have it just as bad

The way Liverpool is now.

Yep, nice one. Of course Liverpool couldn't be nothing else could it :rolleyes:. Check out the rest of the forum, shame this stuff detracts away from the good stuff thats going on.

Its not like people are being randomly shot, these are targetted at people who have been involved for many years in criminalty, country wide problem, not confined to Liverpool.

Its happening all over the show.

Very True, Kev! Even here in NZ!!!

Yep, nice one. Of course Liverpool couldn't be nothing else could it :rolleyes:. Check out the rest of the forum, shame this stuff detracts away from the good stuff thats going on.

Its not like people are being randomly shot, these are targetted at people who have been involved for many years in criminalty, country wide problem, not confined to Liverpool.

Its happening all over the show.

So because its happening all over it dilutes the crime here.

Kev, i know you love liverpool, but myself, i see it decaying like lot of cities.

But i won't accept 'its not just Liverpool' argument at all.

Ban me if you want, but i won't accept that bullsh*t at all.

Liverpool is getting worse.

So because its happening all over it dilutes the crime here.

Kev, i know you love liverpool, but myself, i see it decaying like lot of cities.

But i won't accept 'its not just Liverpool' argument at all.

Ban me if you want, but i won't accept that bullsh*t at all.

Liverpool is getting worse.

Hooray Shapers am with you.
I got a tellin off for sayin "Capitol of gun culture".I hasten to add they're not my words but the words from the kids on the street and people from outside liverpool.
It's like I said,I see the good and the bad in this city,more often than not lately its the bad!:ninja:

In 1997 my uncle was shot and killed in Birmingham, a bystander during a robbery. He had nothing to do with it, but paid with his life. Do i blame Birmingham....NO.

Gun crime is rife everywhere, every city, every town. Liverpool is no exception, nor is it the only place we should worry about.

Give harsh penalties for carrying a gun. maybe that would deter some people.

If we try to isolate gun crime then we have no chance of easing it. we must fight it together. write to your local mp. Get angry by gun crimes in LIverpool by all means, but please attack every gun crime in the country.

After the Dunblane atrocity, There was a panic reaction by the government banning all hand guns. This was supported by the public and resulted in a total ban. The inquiry revealed the following,
Quote. As the law stood at the time, the police were unable to revoke Hamilton's firearms certificate (gun licence) because there were no substantiated grounds to do so. Although one Central Scotland Police officer had recommended (in a lengthy report on Hamilton) that revoking his firearms certificate should be considered,( He was a suspected pedophile) this was overruled as the Deputy Chief Constable considered that he would be able to appeal successfully. The Deputy Chief Constable resigned at the same time as Lord Cullen's report into the massacre was published. [end of quote.]
It was the authorities who were to blame for this mentally unstable man to have guns.
The truth is, if you make guns illegal to own only crooks will own them because crooks have no regard for the law.
This is exactly what has happened. What the answer is I have no idea but something needs to be done about it, endless discussions and complaints are achieving nothing.

One of the many problems is, that people go 'thats society now' which is a defeatest attitude.

And when the Echo report yet another shooting, whats the local scousers comment ' it happens everywhere'.

So what?

It happens here more than most places.

I will refuse to sit back and say 'Liverpool is great, sure the odd shooting, no worse than Manchester' because thats bullsh*t.

Wipe it out, only way is to highlight the problem and back up those with balls to go the cop shop.

Wake up Scousers, Liverpool is not paradise.

Hooray Shapers am with you.
I got a tellin off for sayin "Capitol of gun culture".I hasten to add they're not my words but the words from the kids on the street and people from outside liverpool.
It's like I said,I see the good and the bad in this city,more often than not lately its the bad!:ninja:


You will have my back up anytime sir.

Wipe it out, only way is to highlight the problem and back up those with balls to go the cop shop.

I agree shapers, but wipe it out how?
There is a general disregard for all laws. I have been watching Brit TV cop shows.
They say what the sentences are and they are certainly no deterrent. What do you do, build bigger and better jails?. Perhaps jails like that famous one in Arizona might improve things. Do you bring back corporal punishment?. Even kids on 10 and 12 will bad mouth the cops and get no reprimand for it. I have heard people say it is because of the EU human rights laws. Does the same situation exist in Other EU countries?. If not, how do they control crime.

Hooray Shapers am with you.
I got a tellin off for sayin "Capitol of gun culture".I hasten to add they're not my words but the words from the kids on the street and people from outside liverpool.
It's like I said,I see the good and the bad in this city,more often than not lately its the bad!:ninja:

I think I am right in saying most of the gun crime stems from drug dealing, correct me if I am wrong.
So next time you brag about rolling a fattie in the shout box just remember you are part of the cause.
P.S. It used to be cool to keep quiet about it. I quit in 1973.

Ban me if you want, but i won't accept that bullsh*t at all.

Don't be like that, I am allowed to post my opinions of my own forum. You follow the forum rules.

I got a tellin off for sayin "Capitol of gun culture".

A difference in opinion isn't a telling off John, just because I'm Admin.

I hasten to add they're not my words but the words from the kids on the street and people from outside liverpool.

This is the bit that worries and concerns me. Its people from outside of Liverpool that have developed stereotypes and prejudices against the city and its people for many years, just because people are using the net to spread and reinforce these stereotypes and prejudices doesn't mean its true, all kinds of nonsense gets spread around via emails and txt messages without the slightest thought on its impact or wider implications.

The attitude of the kids on the street is the same up and down the country.

It's like I said,I see the good and the bad in this city,more often than not lately its the bad!:ninja:

Exactly, me too. I don't walk around with blinkers on at all. I've grown up around it all my life and chosen to stay in Liverpool. But you have mentioned 'lately'. That's all it is, 'lately', these are problems/ symptoms being displayed up and down the country. Its unfortunate that recently there has been a lot of high profile stuff in the media about Liverpool. There have also been lots of good stuff too.

There's much much more that Liverpool and its people can stand up and be proud about.

To be honest Kev, i care little about what others think about Liverpool.

It's even funny going the match and hearing the likes of Boro fans singing in your Liverpool slums as of course Middlesbrough is such a lovely place.

If it was only the hardened criminals with guns targeting each other it wouldn't be a problem anywhere, but the main problem is kids growing up thinking that having access to a gun to sort out their problems is fine.

In my day and i'm only 35 (well for at least a few more weeks) any problems were sorted with a fight and that only.

Now it's stabbings and shootings.

Kids grow up far too quickly and lots have no discipline from their parents and peers.

I think I am right in saying most of the gun crime stems from drug dealing, correct me if I am wrong.
So next time you brag about rolling a fattie in the shout box just remember you are part of the cause.
P.S. It used to be cool to keep quiet about it. I quit in 1973.

I think you are wrong!
Most gun crime stems from crime full stop.People trafficking,money laundering,prostitution etc etc.
Cannabis isn't the cause its the class A drugs.Always been a problem and always will.
Funny how Amsterdam has very little gun crime yet its the Cannibas central.
And as for rolling a "fat one".Well ask any nurse.Paramedic or copper what they have problems with and you'll find that cannabis isn't mentioned.
Anyway am not going into a discussion on " it should be legal".
Cannibis I use for medical reasons as my mum did when she had cancer.
Cannabis has a very tiny amount to do with gun crime (the dealers very rarely shoot each other).
To say I am part of the cause is such a ridiculous thing to say as I have no friends,dealers who are involved or have been in any gun crime.
I hate the misery alcohol brings AND THERE'S ENOUGH OF IT.

I hate the misery alcohol brings AND THERE'S ENOUGH OF IT.

Me too, can't even buy it where I live. But what has that to do with the discussion?.

To say cannabis users are causing gun crime...well I think you've bit the big one!
:PDT10

To say cannabis users are causing gun crime...well I think you've bit the big one!
:PDT10

Not what I said at all.

Quote me. just remember you are part of the cause.

Just as all people who disregard the law are the cause of the general attitude that it has been happening so long it has become the norm so that makes it OK.
I am just as guilty when I think about it, when I used to drive for a living it was more profitable to 'bend' the speeding laws, it didn't seem criminal at the time but just a little bad luck could have made it criminal because it affects safety.
But we all think at the time we do these things we are doing no harm. Over many years of lack of effective law enforcement it has created a very selfish 'Do what thou wilt' attitude. It isn't the first time in history this has happened and is an interesting point to research.

The declassification of the drug has created hundreds of small time drug dealers within our communities, its almost like an apprenticeship.

I agree Kev, but I know from when I used it I would never have agreed it was wrong. The reason I gave it up in 1973 was that I realised I didn't know when I was straight. I will say though that I found it much easier to quit than tobacco.

After the Dunblane atrocity

Is that Dunblane Liverpool? :rolleyes:

I've got my Liverpool atlas out now and I can't find Hungerford anywhere either.

A 15-year-old boy was found dying in the street in East London in a pool of blood after he had been stabbed in the leg as he returned from the cinema.His murder comes just three days after 16-year-old Kodjo Yenga was stabbed to death while walking with his girlfriend on the other side of the capital in Hammersmith. In Manchester police are also investigating three separate murder inquiries after three young men were stabbed to death in one night. The men, aged 21, 24 and 30, were murdered in unrelated knife attacks during Friday night and Saturday morning.

It's everywhere so why sensationalise it when it's here,we get away lightly but some locals think we're under siege.Maybe we are but all of the other big cites with the exception of Sheffield are worse and even a young kid was shot dead there recently too.Any given day you can find a murder,here's some from the BBC today alone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7077360.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7076415.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7077534.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7077512.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/7076695.stm

Is that Dunblane Liverpool? :rolleyes:

I've got my Liverpool atlas out now and I can't find Hungerford anywhere either.



It's everywhere so why sensationalise it when it's here,we get away lightly but some locals think we're under siege.Maybe we are but all of the other big cites with the exception of Sheffield are worse and even a young kid was shot dead there recently too.

I agree.Whenever crime happens in Liverpool people say it's happened because it is Liverpool.Rubbish. Have people not heard of Manchester,London or Nottingham? Gun crime is on the increase nationwide, it's never been easier to obtain guns

Nottingham was named assasination city by the press because it has the worst gun crime in the country and then there was gunchester.Did anyone take any notice of the mother who was jailed in Manchester this week because she was minding a gun for someone and her son shot her daughters head off (his sister) with the gun,no? or doesn't that mean anything.Of course not everythings rosy but nobody's saying that it is but please less of the dramatics,Kev you want to get some special yo oscars on the go.:snf (41):

I took notice of that - - I remember thinking to myself ' serves 'em right then ' :disgust: that mother will have to live with that for the rest of her days.
What normal person would mind a gun for someone ???? :neutral:

Not what I said at all.

Quote me. just remember you are part of the cause.

Just as all people who disregard the law are the cause of the general attitude that it has been happening so long it has become the norm so that makes it OK.
I am just as guilty when I think about it, when I used to drive for a living it was more profitable to 'bend' the speeding laws, it didn't seem criminal at the time but just a little bad luck could have made it criminal because it affects safety.
But we all think at the time we do these things we are doing no harm. Over many years of lack of effective law enforcement it has created a very selfish 'Do what thou wilt' attitude. It isn't the first time in history this has happened and is an interesting point to research.


Yes, it is PART of it. It definately is !

None of us are lily white - I'm sure there must be something all of us have done in the past which is illegal.

remember the days before the drink driving laws when people thought nothing of driving home from a party, or drive out to a country pub - have few drinks then drive back home ??
This was clearly wrong and thank God that the present laws were brought out. The point I'm making is that lots of people have done similar things thinking it was ok.

It was cool to smoke a 'likkle weed' in some of the social circles I have mixed in - - and I have never been particularly for or against.
But I do tend to believe that there is some truth in the recent findings that Cannabis can or does cause psychotic changes - in other words .. you can go mental (to put it bluntly) -I have seen the evidence - people who have been heavy users are as nutty as a fruit cake !!!

looking around at some of the ant-socials now - I think half of them are off their heads - evidently the results of drink & drugs.

So therefore, I do agree with Shy that all things like weed & alcohol etc are PART of the problems in society.

- - well of course it is - - it's common sense isn't it !

I'm glad at least someone read and understood what I wrote. It is annoying to have parts taken out of context and misused. Thank you lindylou :PDT_Aliboronz_11:

Yeah its plain english that makes things easier to understand!!!
As well as a "likle weed" and "alcohol" how about them pirated dvds you watch and the stuff on the markets you know isn't real blah blah blah.
:PDT10

Living in London we have a shooting or stabbing nearly every day in the news. As much as people here go mad at the statistics it is usually black on black, mainly teenages in gangs or older people with drug problems. Yes we have our share of nutty people who kill complete strangers for the sake of it but not as often as you may think. Sadly there is very little for teenages here and gang coulture gives them identities and role models they don't have at home. We also have lots of crime involving Eastern europians communities are being ripped apart with the influx of new people and frustration comes out in various ways.
God I am depressed now:022:

Yeah its plain english that makes things easier to understand!!!
As well as a "likle weed" and "alcohol" how about them pirated dvds you watch and the stuff on the markets you know isn't real blah blah blah.
:PDT10

I wouldn't buy them anyway John - they are bound to be rubbish. If I want something like that I buy from a 'proper shop' :)
It's so rare I watch a DVD - - they'd go out of business waiting for me ! ha.ha.
Only my son wastes his money on them :rolleyes:

Whilst I agree that something has to be done about guns - and I don't care if every motorist or pedestrian gets stopped and searched including myself on a clampdown - the fact is the law has to be harsher such as a straight 8-10 years just for possession.

Just one thing that has to be put right though because I believe shapers and John Zappa have mentioned it on more than one occassion - Liverpool is not the gun capital of anywhere, coming behind London, Nottingham, Manchester and Birmingham for starters. It's interesting you mention Middlesborough fans singing that Jon Hall because that city was recently voted the worst place to live, a title I believe Hull held for a couple of years - taking everything into account including - crime, housing, earnings, jobs etc.

I remember back in the 60's and 70's there were anti terrorist laws brought in to counter the activities of the activities of the Irish terrorists of both sides. Part of it was the Sus law which allowed police to search people on suspicion of nothing in particular. This was I believe repealed because of alleged abuse by the police who racially profiled their detainees. Another part of it was high sentences for firearms offences, Did that get repealed too?.
now that the original people the laws were enacted to stop have made friends and no longer seem to be a problem we have our home grown terrorists. Nobody seems to class these people who are a scourge of modern society as terrorists but that is exactly what the are, they terrorise whole neighbourhoods so why not treat then as such.
It is no use sitting back and saying it's OK because it is worse elsewhere, It is also no good making new laws when the old ones are not being enforced. Give the police the power to do their job because it has been taken away from them, mostly by the PC brigade who are largely responsible for todays troubles.

Nothing to add to that :handclap:

I am somebody who can plead guilty for using the phrase 'Liverpool is not the only city with gun problems' however, it's not because I'm ignoring the problem or because I want to view Liverpool with rose tinted glasses, I love the city but I would like to see this problem addressed. The reason I would say other cities have problems too is because it's well reported and known that cities like Manchester, Leeds, Nottingham, London and Birmingham also have problems with gun problems, but I just want the issue tackled in all the areas. I don't think it's a time for other people from other cities to be making jokes about gun culture e.g. Liverpool: 'European Cpital of Gun Crime,' Nottingham: 'Shottingham,' and Manchester: 'Gunchester'. All these cities have a lot going for them, but I feel the whole country, rather than ridiculing should pull together to try to tackle this gun problem sweeping the country. I don't mean to speak for anybody else, but I think possibly that's what Kev and others were talking about when referring to Liverpool as not the only place with a gun problem.

If we look at it statistically, in the past people have been correct when claiming Liverpool doesn't have the worst gun crime or crime statistics. I am aware statistics can be misleading and only go by reported crimes, they don't tell the whole story but they do give some clues. Here is a link to the 2006 crime figures for the UK: http://www.reform.co.uk/filestore/pdf/Urban%20crime%20rankings,%20Reform,%202006.pdf some things might surprise a few people.

However, I know the gun crime has increased in Liverpool since that report. Like I said, I am prone to saying these things can happen anywhere, but it's true, if you were scared to go somewhere due to crime then you wouldn't move outside your own front door, however, I would like to see the problem tackled in not only Liverpool, but the entire the country. I think all the gun problem cities have so much going for them and it's such a shame these gangs spoil it for the majority and for innocent decent people.

Whilst I agree that something has to be done about guns - and I don't care if every motorist or pedestrian gets stopped and searched including myself on a clampdown - the fact is the law has to be harsher such as a straight 8-10 years just for possession.

Just one thing that has to be put right though because I believe shapers and John Zappa have mentioned it on more than one occassion - Liverpool is not the gun capital of anywhere, coming behind London, Nottingham, Manchester and Birmingham for starters. It's interesting you mention Middlesborough fans singing that Jon Hall because that city was recently voted the worst place to live, a title I believe Hull held for a couple of years - taking everything into account including - crime, housing, earnings, jobs etc.



Middlesborough have got a cheek !! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
from what I have heard, it is not very salubrious there.

Yes, that always makes me laugh too. People from places which aren't perfect constantly making sure we don't forget about our less than perfect areas, we live here, we know the good and the bad aspects! Again, I really hate to seem like I'm playing on that victim thing, that Liverpudlians are often accused of, but does anybody feel that people sometimes use Liverpool as a scapegoat to make them feel better about their own areas? Like, 'surely it can't be as bad as Liverpool?' lol

Getting rid of guns is only part of the solution. The attitude of the killers must be changed if there are no guns they will use knives, machetes, axes and other everyday tools to kill with. Gun availability is not the only reason for all these killings.

Yes, that's of course true and harsher sentences and school education would go some way to do that but guns are still the weapon that can be used to quick devastating effect like yesterday in Finland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7084349.stm

Also, the Rhys murder probably wouldn't have happened had it not been for that kind of weapon as from a distance he was mistaken for someone else and ricochets can happen.

There's possibly a stronger possibility of catching someone carrying or weilding weapons that have to be used close up, the victim can possibly fight back to some degree, blood would be on the assailant too aiding capture and it couldn't be used to mass effect like a gun.

Guns need outlawing for the simple reason is they're only their for one reason. Knives and other everyday objects that can be used to kill can have other useful uses.

Yes, that's of course true and harsher sentences and school education would go some way to do that but guns are still the weapon that can be used to quick devastating effect like yesterday in Finland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7084349.stm

Also, the Rhys murder probably wouldn't have happened had it not been for that kind of weapon as from a distance he was mistaken for someone else and ricochets can happen.

There's possibly a stronger possibility of catching someone carrying or weilding weapons that have to be used close up, the victim can possibly fight back to some degree, blood would be on the assailant too aiding capture and it couldn't be used to mass effect like a gun.

Guns need outlawing for the simple reason is they're only their for one reason. Knives and other everyday objects that can be used to kill can have other useful uses.

I agree with all that Ged. My point was that it is the mindset of these thugs that is also as big a problem.

Yes. They need the harshest possible 'treatment' - minimal human rights which they forfeit as far as i'm concerned.

The prevention instead of the cure is much harder to achieve as although people will say there were still murderers when the death sentence was around - we'll never know how many it might have deterred though at the same time.

Perhaps a boot camp - not conscription or enforced army as I also don't see why the regulars should be burdened with this dross either. Hard hitting public information films - remember the old public info ads - well a bit of realism these days.