As a Red, his opinion that he'd rather finish in the top six than win a cup well confuses me. Sixth in the league only guarantees a UEFA Cup spot if teams from the top four win the FA and League Cups, so surely it'd be better to finish 7th and win the League Cup for example.

As for preferring to finish 6th than win the UEFA Cup, why actually battle to qualify for Europe via the league if you'd me more satisfied with a defeat in the final and being in the competion next year than winning the thing.

It reminds me of the 2004-5 when some fools suggested that Liverpool would be better to finish 4th to guarantee Champions League qualification the next year than run the risk of winning it and UEFA refusing to let us back in.

Yeah that's a bizarre comment,trophies every time for me.

I agree Ste and Paul. It's about silverware and as our expectations of the league are more in hope of hoping some of the others forgetting to turn up, we have to be looking to the cup competitions and if you're striving to finish in a league position that gets you into Europe, the goal must then be to win it, not just to get into that position again the following season only to 'not win it again' and so the cycle continues.

As a Red, his opinion that he'd rather finish in the top six than win a cup well confuses me. Sixth in the league only guarantees a UEFA Cup spot if teams from the top four win the FA and League Cups, so surely it'd be better to finish 7th and win the League Cup for example.

As for preferring to finish 6th than win the UEFA Cup, why actually battle to qualify for Europe via the league if you'd me more satisfied with a defeat in the final and being in the competion next year than winning the thing.

It reminds me of the 2004-5 when some fools suggested that Liverpool would be better to finish 4th to guarantee Champions League qualification the next year than run the risk of winning it and UEFA refusing to let us back in.

Question: Who are the most successful club in English history?
Answer: Everton.

Why? They have played more seasons in the top-flight than any other team.

They play, and compete, with the best every week and have done apart from 4 season since the league was formed. That is what it is all about - being there and competing with the best.

Notts Forest have won the European Cup, Everton have not. Who is the most successful club? Notts Forest? Nah!!!! No one half sane would say that. A flash in the pan who comes up and wins some silver pots for a few years then goes back to obscurity is more successful, or the one who is always there competing and bringing top quality entertainment to their fans year in and year out? The accountants prefer Everton's situation than Notts Forests - constant high revenues coming in.

It is NOT about winning silver pots, it is about competing with the best week in week out, and has been since the second division came into existence in the 1890s.

The Premier League has clearly highlighted this point taking the matter to very high levels. It is about being in there, winning it is just icing on the cake.

For being good in the Premier a club is rewarded. The top 4 go through to the Champions League. A bit like promotion form the lower leagues. The idea is to be promoted, winning a silver cup for being top is very low down in the overall scheme of matters.

Question: Who are the most successful club in English history?
Answer: Everton.

Why? They have played more seasons in the top-flight than any other team.



They have also lost more top flight games than everone else too.:rolleyes:

I'm not knocking Everton's record of consistency, but it all about winning pots I'm afraid. Success isn't just being there imho.

There is nothing special about being at the big party every year if it means that more often than not you end up watching the others enjoy themselves and then go home on your tod.:unibrow:

At the turn of the millenium Everton had amassed more league points and goals than any other English team, however as pointed out Notts Forest and teams like Coventry, Wimbledon and Middlesborough have proved that 2nd class teams can win 5 or 6 knock out rounds but oh to do that this season, i'd well settle for that since we've no chance of the prem just as cups have been a godsend for liverpool come March every year since 1990.

They have also lost more top flight games than everone else too.


They would do having played far more seasons than anyone else. The nearest to Everton is Aston Villa, 8 seasons behind. Everton have also scored more goals and won more games too.


I'm not knocking Everton's record of consistency, but it all about winning pots I'm afraid. Success isn't just being there imho.


You are totally wrong!!!! No club would ever agree with you. The Notts F example made that clear. Liverpool were 9 years in the second division in the 1950s/60s. Everton in that time never won anything on the top-flight, but played against the best every week, while Liverpool were playing against Lincoln City and the likes. Get it? The Busy Babes never played against Liverpool, they played Everton twice a season come what may and Everton went to Old Trafford and beat them 5-2 too. Is the penny dropping? Nah I doubt it.

The last second division club to win the FA Cup was West Ham in 1980. The manager said he would rather be promoted than win the FA Cup. Penny dropped yet?


There is nothing special about being at the big party every year if it means that more often than not you end up watching the others enjoy themselves and then go home on your tod.

Being at the party is what it is all about, even Coventry City, who were mocked (I can't see why) for winning nothing and being in the top-flight for nearly 40 years, would be the life and soul of the party occasionally and tonked all the big boys at Highfield Rd regularly. Coventry fans for 40 years saw top class football, against top class opposition every home game. And they had to win games to stay with the big boys.

Silver pots are trinkets!! Being there, with them and competing with them is what it is all about.


Think hard about it.

At the turn of the millenium Everton had amassed more league points and goals than any other English team, however as pointed out Notts Forest and teams like Coventry, Wimbledon and Middlesborough have proved that 2nd class teams can win 5 or 6 knock out rounds but oh to do that this season, i'd well settle for that since we've no chance of the prem just as cups have been a godsend for liverpool come March every year since 1990.

Newcastle were a great team in the 1990s. Every home game a sell out. They competed neck and neck for the title year after year, but never managed to clinch one. Because they never won a silver pot trinket does not mean they were a failure or a second rate team. The money poured into the club.

Now, having 4 teams qualify for the CL means consistency is rewarded. Getting the silver pot trinket is now far devalued.

They would do having played far more seasons than anyone else. The nearest to Everton is Aston Villa, 8 seasons behind. Everton have also scored more goals and won more games too.

Everton were formed before Liverpool so of course they are going to have played more games scored more goals and won more games, but they have also lost more games and conceded more goals too.

The bottom line is that even though Everton and Villa have been around longer and won more games than Liverpool had the truth of the matter is that Liverpool have won the league more than both clubs combined.


You are totally wrong!!!! No club would ever agree with you. The Notts F example made that clear.

Well no actually, just because you underline a starement doesn't actually make it right, it's just your opinion, no more or less valid than anyone elses.

And why do you keep harping on about Forest ? Nobody in his right mind would say that Forest's brief (albiet spectacular) period of success makes them a more successful team than Everton. Compare your club with a Forest any time you want, it's when you start comparing Everton with England's most successful club that you come up way short.


Liverpool were 9 years in the second division in the 1950s/60s. Everton in that time never won anything on the top-flight, but played against the best every week, while Liverpool were playing against Lincoln City and the likes. Get it?

I always get a laugh out of Evertonian's when they bring up the 1950's, as if they were that much better themselves, they spent 3 seasons of that decade in the 2nd division too and the rest of the time batting in the bottom half of the table against relegation.


The Busy Babes never played against Liverpool, they played Everton twice a season come what may and Everton went to Old Trafford and beat them 5-2 too. Is the penny dropping? Nah I doubt it.

Was that the same season 2nd division Liverpool thrashed 1st division Everton 4-0 at Goodison in the FA Cup ?


Being at the party is what it is all about, even Coventry City, who were mocked (I can't see why) for winning nothing and being in the top-flight for nearly 40 years, would be the life and soul of the party occasionally and tonked all the big boys at Highfield Rd regularly. Coventry fans for 40 years saw top class football, against top class opposition every home game. And they had to win games to stay with the big boys.

They also won bugger all. If that's your idea of success then you are welcome to it. Clinging to life, fighting relegation year after year, watching bigger and better clubs lift trophies season after season.

I'll set my sights a bit higher if it's OK with you.


Silver pots are trinkets!! Being there, with them and competing with them is what it is all about.


Think hard about it.

Trust me, your barmy theory doesn't need too much thinking about, hard or otherwise. We watch our teams play every week, we hope they win, we hope they don't get relegated but more that anything we hope that we win silverware, trophies that we can parade around our grounds and put in our trophy rooms. That my friend is what success is all about, actually winning stuff, finishing first not just being content to make up the numbers with the Coventry's of this world.

Think about that mate.

And hopefully you'll find one of those dropped pennies at the bottom of the barrel you're scraping away at.:rolleyes:

Now, having 4 teams qualify for the CL means consistency is rewarded. Getting the silver pot trinket is now far devalued.

Rewarded...........by being allowed to compete for a devalued silver trinket ?

Sounds beyond silly to me.:rolleyes:

Everton were formed before Liverpool so of course they are going to have played more games scored more goals and won more games, but they have also lost more games and conceded more goals too.


You haven't figured that out yet. If they compete more they will accumulate all of those


The bottom line is that even though Everton and Villa have been around longer and won more games than Liverpool had the truth of the matter is that Liverpool have won the league more than both clubs combined.


But spent lot of time in lower leagues, while Evertonians have only ever watched the best.


Well no actually, just because you underline a starement doesn't actually make it right, it's just your opinion, no more or less valid than anyone elses.


It is the view of the clubs themselves.


And why do you keep harping on about Forest ? Nobody in his right mind would say that Forest's brief (albiet spectacular) period of success makes them a more successful team than Everton.


They have won a couple of European Cups, the highest club achievement, while Everton have not.


Compare your club with a Forest any time you want, it's when you start comparing Everton with England's most successful club that you come up way short.


Everton ARE England's most successful club. Always there always competing at the highest level.


I always get a laugh out of Evertonian's when they bring up the 1950's, as if they were that much better themselves, they spent 3 seasons of that decade in the 2nd division too and the rest of the time batting in the bottom half of the table against relegation.


But play at the top level, play the best week in week out - what it is fundamentally all about. No playing Lincoln City in the league.


They also won bugger all. If that's your idea of success then you are welcome to it. Clinging to life, fighting relegation year after year, watching bigger and better clubs lift trophies season after season.


Playing at the highest level week in week out. Playing with the best with big crowds.


I'll set my sights a bit higher if it's OK with you.


Better than playing Doncaster Rovers in league games.


Trust me, your barmy theory doesn't need too much thinking about,


Ask the clubs what they would rather have. What prompted this was Liverpool not wanting a silver cup trinket and wanting to perform better in a league.


hard or otherwise. We watch our teams play every week, we hope they win, we hope they don't get relegated


The prime aim.


but more that anything we hope that we win silverware, trophies


The cherry on the top.


That my friend is what success is all about, actually winning stuff, finishing first not just being content to make up the numbers with the Coventry's of this world.


You are WRONG!!! Coventry provided for 40 years top class football for their fans to watch. That is what it is all about. Playing at the top with the best week in week out. Silver pot trinkets are very secondary.

Could i have a pint of whatever Waterways is drinking?

You haven't figured that out yet. If they compete more they will accumulate all of those

I'll tell you what I've figured out, for all the extra years that Everton have played in the top flight because they were formed before Liverpool they still haven't accomplished anything near what Liverpool have, for all your extra games you have still managed to win much less.

Take a look in a dictionary and see what the word success actually means, it doesn't have anything to do with just being there, it's about winning and finishing first.

You probably think that the best actors are the ones that have appeared in the most films or the greatest singers are the ones who have made the most records.:rolleyes:

Everton have done well to hang around in the top flight, at times, like Coventry there always seemed to be a few teams that were worse than they were.

I suppose we all set the bar at a different height, some clubs think they are successful if they avoid relegation.............thankfully Liverpool expect a lot more.

We set our sights a little higher than mere survival.

Could i have a pint of whatever Waterways is drinking?

Delusion on the rocks ? :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Liverpool will be lucky to finish fourth this season and could be relegated to a top sixth spot by a number of clubs such as Man City. They are not guaranteed a champions league spot as though it's their birthright and anyway the champions league should be for the national champions something LFC haven't been for nigh on 20 years.

Liverpool will be lucky to finish fourth this season and could be relegated to a top sixth spot by a number of clubs such as Man City. They are not guaranteed a champions league spot as though it's their birthright and anyway the champions league should be for the national champions something LFC haven't been for nigh on 20 years.

Ta mate, although I think most of us already knew all that.

And it might not be our birthright to finish in the top 6 but we've only failed to do so twice in the last 40 years.

Could i have a pint of whatever Waterways is drinking?

I'll have some too, on another thread mate he's advocating sacking Moyes and bringing in Mourinho.

I don't know where the original statement about Moyes wanting the top 6 finish rather than a cup comes from, is there any link to it because all i've read on the EFC website and Echo tonight is it's about time we won a cup?

Something i'd definitely go along with and i'm just glad we seem to be taking the Carling cup a bit more seriously this year instead of playing untried kids like in the past. I know Moyes made 6 changes at Luton but our squad's so small that they had all been used before already this season in various positions.

I don't know where the original statement about Moyes wanting the top 6 finish rather than a cup comes from, is there any link to it because all i've read on the EFC website and Echo tonight is it's about time we won a cup?

Something i'd definitely go along with and i'm just glad we seem to be taking the Carling cup a bit more seriously this year instead of playing untried kids like in the past. I know Moyes made 6 changes at Luton but our squad's so small that they had all been used before already this season in various positions.

He made them on the official site Ged

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/greedy-for-success.html

Ta mate, although I think most of us already knew all that.

And it might not be our birthright to finish in the top 6 but we've only failed to do so twice in the last 40 years.

Is that an achievement?

Everton have only failed to be in the top-flight 4 years from 1887. That's a far bigger achievement.

Could i have a pint of whatever Waterways is drinking?

A pint if wisdom. :-)

I'll tell you what I've figured out, for all the extra years that Everton have played in the top flight because they were formed before Liverpool they still haven't accomplished anything near what Liverpool have, for all your extra games you have still managed to win much less.


Not so. Everton have provided top-flight, top class football for their fan to watch more than any other club. That is by far a greater achievement.


You probably think that the best actors are the ones that have appeared in the most films or the greatest singers are the ones who have made the most records.


Nope. The greatest actors are those that have played in the best films and more of them. The same with musicians.


I suppose we all set the bar at a different height, some clubs think they are successful if they avoid relegation.............thankfully Liverpool expect a lot more.


Like winning a title? Which they haven't managed for nearly 20 years. What is this success you are on about then? Being there and competing at the top? Is success getting in a CL final and losing? Not winning in the final is the same as not winning in the early rounds - you didn't win.


We set our sights a little higher than mere survival.

You better re-set the sights as they shoot off mark.

A pint if wisdom. :-)

You sound more like Norman Wisdom to me mate.:rolleyes:

Thanks for the link Ste, must've missed that one.

I think the money that goes with league positions now and in particular finishing in the top 4 and so getting CL money has created a thinking amongst managers that perhaps a run in the Carling cup (we've had 3 away draws and there's no replays these days) isn't the be all and end all.

It's sad though if this is the case, especially because if you can make that final push from now on in with a chance of winning it, there's a UEFA place up for grabs.

I therefore can't see the reasoning behind the statement.

Not so. Everton have provided top-flight, top class football for their fan to watch more than any other club.

Just the one fan is it?

Just the one fan is it?

When I'm watching, I am the only one that matters.

When I'm watching, I am the only one that matters.

You're certainly the only one happy with the tripe that's been served up over the last 20 years.:unibrow:

You're certainly the only one happy with the tripe that's been served up over the last 20 years.:unibrow:

Again you sound like a wanna be Everton fan. you post more comments on the Everton thread than the Liverpoool one. C`mon brother, dont be ashamed, come out and show the world you are an Evertonian:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

P.S.

Do you really believe we would have you :):handclap:

Again you sound like a wanna be Everton fan.


Things must be grimmer at Woodison than even I thought if I sound like an Evertonian, do all of you think they are as poor as I do ?:rolleyes:

Things must be grimmer at Woodison than even I thought if I sound like an Evertonian, do all of you think they are as poor as I do ?:rolleyes:

You could never know the joy of being a Blue, and you certainly do not sound like a Blue. a wannabe Blue maybe? but never the full Blue blooded Evertonian.

Things are far from Grim at Goodison:PDT_Piratz_26:

You could never know the joy of being a Blue,


Ah the joy of being a blue...........right up there with the joy of passing a kidney stone.:unibrow:

Ah the joy of being a blue...........right up there with the joy of passing a kidney stone.:unibrow:

You get joy passing kidney stones:eek:

WOW :)

Tripe and 20 years - what's this. Liverpool's last top flight win was only 17 years ago wasn't it, don't make it sound worse than it really is :ninja:

Tripe and 20 years - what's this. Liverpool's last top flight win was only 17 years ago wasn't it, don't make it sound worse than it really is :ninja:

It hasn't been our best 17 years mate but I think you'd swap 'em for yours wouldn't you Ged ?:rolleyes:

You get joy passing kidney stones:eek:

WOW :)

Vroooooooom. :rolleyes:

It hasn't been our best 17 years mate but I think you'd swap 'em for yours wouldn't you Ged ?:rolleyes:

As you didn't win many silver cup trinkets during those 17 years they must mainly be a failure - the equivalent to being 9 years in the second division .

As you didn't win many silver cup trinkets during those 17 years they must mainly be a failure - the equivalent to being 9 years in the second division .

So if winning eight major Cups in the last 15 years is what you consider a failure just how would you rate Everton's one Cup in the last 20 years ?:rolleyes: