All Saints Church, Childwall [Archive] - Yo! Liverpool Forum Community

Kev

10-01-2006, 03:58 PM

All Saints' Church

There are registers at All Saints that date from 1557. These are among the earliest in the country. The Norris family of Speke Hall use to attend here. There was once a weird 'child marraige' here in 1544 when Anne, a nine year old daughter William Whitfield was married to Thomas Fletcher aged ten. The reason? The boy's farther John was in debt and to get some money he, 'bargained his sonne to the said Whitfield's daughter.

http://static.flickr.com/106/257230364_adc220e7f6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/257230364/)

http://static.flickr.com/95/257230501_63464850ea.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/257230501/)

http://static.flickr.com/109/257232423_dc9bccaa2d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/257232423/)

http://static.flickr.com/121/257232447_97e0753798.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/257232447/)

http://static.flickr.com/86/257232471_a8227c9024.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/257232471/)

http://static.flickr.com/105/257232577_ca6c0c82ab.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/257232577/)

shytalk

10-01-2006, 05:02 PM

Kev.
Next time you are passing, get a picture of the entrance gate, I think it is called a Lytch gate, I'll have to look that up. From what I remember there are not many examples left.

Kev

10-01-2006, 05:20 PM

Kev.
Next time you are passing, get a picture of the entrance gate, I think it is called a Lytch gate, I'll have to look that up. From what I remember there are not many examples left.

This one?

http://static.flickr.com/82/257464330_db3f5696d2.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/257464330/)

shytalk

10-01-2006, 05:34 PM

No kev,hard to explain it, I will look for a pic of one.

http://www.history.uk.com/churches/index.php?archive=2

Scroll down, it is the gate with a roof on it.

lindylou

10-01-2006, 06:06 PM

Kev.
Next time you are passing, get a picture of the entrance gate, I think it is called a Lytch gate, I'll have to look that up. From what I remember there are not many examples left.

you're right. There are not many about. If I'm not mistaken there may be one at the church in Port Sunlight village. (I don't know the name of the church). I'm sure a friend of mine mentioned it when we looking around there.

sweetpatooti

10-03-2006, 05:08 PM

Our church in Garston has got a Lych gate Kev. It's the gate up the side in Banks Road with the little roof over it. It was a resting place for the coffins. Did you manage to get inside All Saints? It really is interesting. There is still a wall from the medieval church and evidence of the piscina that the priest used to wash the chalice when the church was Catholic before the Reformation. There are brasses from the Norris family. There was no church between that one and Prescot in the middle ages and you can still see the church at Prescot from the car park next to All Saints. There is a resting place for the coffins there and the hatchments inside are really interesting. The church is quite often open and it is well worth a look to see how we used to live (well not my ancestors cos we were poor).

Take a picture of our church lych gate - our church is great.

shytalk

10-03-2006, 06:03 PM

sweetpatooti, That is interesting, I thought that Childwall Church was the only pre reformation church in the city, learn something new every day on this forum.

sweetpatooti

10-06-2006, 09:05 PM

Hiya Shytalk - the present church building of St Michael Garston was built in 1874 but there has been a church on the site since the 13th Century. Pre-reformation it was dedicated to St Wilfred. The Lytch gate is there and the graveyard has some very interesting and old tombstones. There is a book called "Garston and it's Church" by Canon Swift published in the 30s and has recently been published again with the aid of the Garston Historical Society. The Church's day school, Garston Church of England School, began in 1716. It's dead interesting Garston.:)

Kev

10-30-2006, 10:06 PM

Norm NZ

10-30-2006, 10:21 PM

:shock: "Spooky Pic Kev"! Let us know when you decipher it!

theninesisters

01-06-2007, 11:36 AM

The Lytch gate in Childwall, I've only got a view from the tower nothing up close.

It is the oldest lytch gate in the graveyard set in to the West wall. The date 1728 is carved upon the central column and the gate has been in continuous use from that date onwards.

theninesisters

01-06-2007, 11:38 AM

Just found the below in my collection too - the same lytch gate from 1845.

Max

01-06-2007, 07:53 PM

A ghost in front of All Saints, Childwall:

http://static.flickr.com/55/283985365_a28c2e42fb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/283985365/)

http://static.flickr.com/121/283985296_e53208c333.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/283985296/)

Did you take that picture Kev?

Wavertree is a delightful area and is really much more than the historic High Street area. Did you know the original Wavertree township extended as far as Druid's Cross Rd? I only wish the whole of the High St street could have an aesthetic make over to remove much of the 20th C over enthusiastic use of garish paint and signs. Here are a few photos I took a couple of years ago including one of the now lost, due to vandalism, pillar box on Sandown Lane

When did Druid's Cross become part of Allerton?

wallasey

02-10-2007, 10:33 PM

Never actually been to the old heart of Childwall; should get down there one day though, looks rather interesting!

Ste Birmingham

03-11-2007, 01:28 AM

I was christened in that church. As children, we would frequently play in-and-around Childwall woods. We would proceed down 'devil's gorge' and up onto the 'island'. And we would occasionally sneak around the burial ground looking for ghosts. I never did see one, and that is because there is no such thing.

Gnomie

03-11-2007, 09:11 AM

Ste when did you live there? as i did the same thing:)

Ste Birmingham

03-11-2007, 02:54 PM

This is late 1970s early 1980s - when one could visit the outdoor stables along Childwall Lane. There were some good chestnut trees there too. Smashing conkers. But with all the mud, you risked your footwear trying to retrieve them.

Gnomie

03-11-2007, 03:54 PM

Same time as me mate. I helped out in the riding stables. do you remember the grave for the dog in childwall woods?

Ste Birmingham

03-12-2007, 02:42 AM

Faintly... now you come to mention it. Was it also a ghost dog after dusk? And then there was something about a fallen tree that attracted devil worshipers. Hmm.

I will share with you two of my worst experiences in them there woods, and both of them very real. On one occasion, myself and two friends thought it an excellent idea to build a 'super secret' den (our last effort compromised). Everything was carrying on as normal until a strange male shot out before us: 'What on earth do you think you are doing,' he barked at us. 'Mr, we're only building a den,' we responded somewhat nervously. This individual then identified himself as an undercover police officer, and he proceeded to speak firmly into a handheld radio. Um, except it wasn't a personal radio -- upon closer inspection, I recognised it as a portable shaving appliance! 'Please God help me,' I thought. 'This guy is talking into a battery charged shaver'. He was obviously disturbed. The first of my two friends recognised the danger and we both looked at each other as if to say 'let's get out of here.' Unfortunately my third friend was awestruck and he kept asking questions about the police. It took ten minutes before we could pull him away, and then we legged it out of the woods to safety.

On a separate occasion, a few years later, myself and a friend stumbled into a large group of children approximately our own age and size. It quickly became obvious they were not there to play nice. For no apparent reason, one of them punched my friend in the face, and he bolted out of the woods at great speed, crying. I wanted desperately to run off with him, but was unable, being far too slow. So I remained behind in a frozen state, opting instead to appease this group by maligning my friend. 'What a wuss!' It didn't work. Soon they were pairing me up with a chubby chap for a bare-knuckle fistfight. I stood motionless as he landed several blows to my body and head. What the hell. I collapsed to the floor, pretending to be fatally injured. It worked, and they decided that I had taken enough.

I didn't return to Childwall woods until a long time after that. People went there looking for fun, but all too often they found themselves dodging trouble.

Gnomie

03-12-2007, 06:22 AM

Thats horrible Ste, so sorry it happened.

I know what you mean some right gits hung around there at times. It happened to 2 of us on the loopline. a gang of lads and girls came along as we where swinging on a rope from a tree and started pelting us with the stones from the track( track still down then ) i remember the girls egging them on to kick our heads in. we had to push through bushes and climb into someones garden to get away. places that seemed exciting where so dangerous really.

Ged

03-12-2007, 10:04 AM

Tony. Didn't you tell me once that you had a Remmington R10?

Gnomie

03-12-2007, 01:16 PM

Tony. Didn't you tell me once that you had a Remmington R10?

Not me Ged. is it a shaver?

Gnomie

03-12-2007, 01:17 PM

Or do you mean a close shave

Ged

03-12-2007, 01:18 PM

I just remember you saying you escaped by a whisker.

Cadfael

10-04-2008, 12:46 PM

Just been up to the Church for a public meeting to find out what is going on with the rumoured plans for demolition work!

The facts so far is that the PCC have decided that the Church Hall is to be demolished (opposite the pub) and sold off for houses! The new church hall may well be built on the Bloody Acre next to the Graveyard destroying the wildlife and view of the rolling countryside.

There may also be a side extension to the church which will run through the graveyard too.

I've got to get my facts and figures and maps and drawings correct so I think this may be all be explained better in a website, but as you can imagine, this will destroy the village feel to the area, and a massive blow to the area in which we will lose even more green space!

fortinian

10-12-2008, 09:35 AM

Cadfael

10-13-2008, 03:05 PM

Is Bloody Acre Field actually used for anything? Last time I was down there (a few months ago) it was just a overgrown bramble field - hardly a spot of natural beauty, especially considering Childwall fields just up the road where there are some splendid views on a clear day.

Unless the people of the parish get together and keep bloody acre in a nice state and use it for recreation I can't see any reason why the authorities would want to keep it. If it was actually used for something then I think your task Cad would be easier.

The bloody acre is home to a family of foxes that come 'home' each year as they have done for the last 10 years that I've been taking pictures of them. The land is actually owned by Lord Salisbury and has never been built on since the 'Childwall riots' in the 1600's. The deed states that this land would only ever be used as an extension to the graveyard when needed and not for any building at all. If they wanted to build, they would have to demolish the 'pub' car park, but seeing that the car park is owned by the City Council and was put there in the 1930's 'purely for somewhere to park for people visiting Childwall', I don't think they've got a hope.

The authorities want to keep it simply because of the scores of people who died on that field and there is a covenant on the field that it cannot be built on.

Davec

10-13-2008, 04:04 PM

I don't know if this site has been posted before - apologies if it has - but I found the pics very interesting.

Childwall (http://www.childwall.moonfruit.com/#/welcome/4514665035)

Ged

10-13-2008, 04:23 PM

Hiya Dave. It's a great site isn't it and is Cadfael's who posted just above you. :PDT11

Davec

10-13-2008, 05:01 PM

Hiya Dave. It's a great site isn't it and is Cadfael's who posted just above you. :PDT11

Amazing similarities !! Do you think they're related?

:034:

taffy

10-13-2008, 10:22 PM

Cadfael

10-14-2008, 11:19 AM

This project is in many ways similar to that for St James, Toxteth. It was first suggested a few years ago to overcome the safety problems of large numbers of children crossing the busy road between the present church hall and the old church. My then understanding was that the housing to be provided on the church hall site was some form of sheltered housing.

That the funniest thing I also heard 'busy road'. In all the years of marching down that road in the Boys Brigade, not once could I ever find a single statistic for a traffic accident there.

Standing under the lytchgate opposite the pub, you are far more likely to be struck by a car there as the road narrows and no one takes that corner slowly. I think the count from memory is 14 times that wall/lytchgate has been demolshed.

redjed1

10-14-2008, 04:02 PM

Standing under the lytchgate opposite the pub, you are far more likely to be struck by a car there as the road narrows and no one takes that corner slowly. I think the count from memory is 14 times that wall/lytchgate has been demolshed.

The mortar is only just dry from the last repair. It's not a busy road, just a dangerous junction - especially when it's icy. The number of cars you see skating down past the pub.

It's a lovely area, why can't people just leave it as such. Please keep us informed, Cadfael, as it's the first I'd heard about the proposal.

John

taffy

10-15-2008, 12:23 AM

That the funniest thing I also heard 'busy road'. In all the years of marching down that road in the Boys Brigade, not once could I ever find a single statistic for a traffic accident there.

Standing under the lytchgate opposite the pub, you are far more likely to be struck by a car there as the road narrows and no one takes that corner slowly. I think the count from memory is 14 times that wall/lytchgate has been demolshed.

Of course the Boys' Brigade marches have traffic control marshalls, so it's not surprising you've not had an accident. Long queues of children crossing the busy road from the church hall to the church is a different matter. It has frightened me on more than one occasion to see accidents almost occuring. Perhaps your comment about the lychgate and crashes makes my point.

redjed1

10-15-2008, 12:04 PM

Of course the Boys' Brigade marches have traffic control marshalls, so it's not surprising you've not had an accident. Long queues of children crossing the busy road from the church hall to the church is a different matter. It has frightened me on more than one occasion to see accidents almost occuring. Perhaps your comment about the lychgate and crashes makes my point.

Taffy, I don't agree.
The crashes into the lytchgate are not due to traffic congestion, rather the blind junction when approaching from Childwall Abbey Road. Most seem to occur in icy conditions, when the hill becomes treacherous. Because it is a blind junction, I find that most drivers use extreme caution at the junction. The council has constructed speed bumps along all the surrounding areas to discourage speeding.
I have passed when children cross the road to the church hall and think that, provided they realise they are crossing a road, where traffic generally has the right of way, this section of road is no more dangerous than others.
If the church is allowed to build a new hall on the Bloody Acre, most children will still have to cross the road to get home. If further houses are allowed to be built on the site, the amount of traffic in the area will increase.

taffy

10-15-2008, 02:23 PM

Taffy, I don't agree.
The crashes into the lytchgate are not due to traffic congestion, rather the blind junction when approaching from Childwall Abbey Road. Most seem to occur in icy conditions, when the hill becomes treacherous. Because it is a blind junction, I find that most drivers use extreme caution at the junction. The council has constructed speed bumps along all the surrounding areas to discourage speeding.
I have passed when children cross the road to the church hall and think that, provided they realise they are crossing a road, where traffic generally has the right of way, this section of road is no more dangerous than others.
If the church is allowed to build a new hall on the Bloody Acre, most children will still have to cross the road to get home. If further houses are allowed to be built on the site, the amount of traffic in the area will increase.

I wasn't really refering to traffic congestion. Just one car out of control down the hill is enough. From my own experience the road is very hazardous under icy conditions. It's more the traffic coming from Score Lane round the blind corner that is more dangerous though. Large numbers of children leave the church enmasse for Sunday school lessons and later return to the service. It's at these times that there is an additional hazard which cannot be denied. After the service there would be individual parental supervision to cross any roads.

The church is trying to provide a better facility for the community and should be supported. I realise most of the community don't attend the church but that is perhaps not the point.

redjed1

10-16-2008, 03:55 PM

taffy

10-16-2008, 06:46 PM

Hi Taffy
I don't attend the church, but admire the wonderful building and its surroundings. Looks like there are two issues involved -
1) Build a new church hall on Bloody Acre - I always thought it was a 'protected area' of some sort, as Cadfael said.
2) Sell off the ground where the old hall is / was, and allow it to be used for more housing. I and probably the vast majority of people from the area would be totally against this. It would only be detrimental to the area. Surely no-one could be in favour of houses on this lovely site.

If the plans are not allowed by the planning department, would you be against a Bridge being built over the road from the current Church hall to the Church. Perhaps something like Liverpool College built over North Mossley Hill Road for the same pupil safety reasons, So the road danger to Childwall's children will still be there and something has to be done. The church will be short of money; perhaps the residents of Childwall would be prepared to help fund such a bridge. I also don't attend the church but am aware of the child safety problems.

redjed1

10-17-2008, 02:12 AM

A footbridge, provided it "blended in with the area", would be a better proposal, in my opinion. I'm sure the money could be found (a grant, or even as you suggest alongside a local collection) as I'm sure everyone is in favour of ensuring child safety.

ChrisGeorge

10-17-2008, 02:56 AM

That the funniest thing I also heard 'busy road'. In all the years of marching down that road in the Boys Brigade, not once could I ever find a single statistic for a traffic accident there.

Standing under the lytchgate opposite the pub, you are far more likely to be struck by a car there as the road narrows and no one takes that corner slowly. I think the count from memory is 14 times that wall/lytchgate has been demolshed.

Hello Cadfael, taffy, and redjed1

It's nice that Childwall retains its rural quality, and I enjoyed stopping at Childwall Abbey when I was home in Liverpool in May of last year. However, it should be recognized that Childwall is part of a busy urban area. I therefore suggest that it would not be too radical an idea to put a traffic light at the road junction in front of the church.

All the best

Chris

Cadfael

10-19-2008, 09:07 PM

If the plans are not allowed by the planning department, would you be against a Bridge being built over the road from the current Church hall to the Church. Perhaps something like Liverpool College built over North Mossley Hill Road for the same pupil safety reasons, So the road danger to Childwall's children will still be there and something has to be done. The church will be short of money; perhaps the residents of Childwall would be prepared to help fund such a bridge. I also don't attend the church but am aware of the child safety problems.

A Bridge? I've heard it all now. For anyone thinking that the road is like a Motorway junction, on the many times I have spent at the church, you could count maybe 10 cars in an hour passing that spot. Most visitors to the Pub come from Score Lane or down Childwall Abbey Road.

We are talking about a 15ft piece of road from which you can see both sides as you cross for miles. I can't think of any safer place and I've never come across any near miss despite being part of a group that has crossed that road all my life from the age of 5+ plus. If anyone can tell me of a single incident involving a car and bod on that road then I'd give em money.

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq264/sammo1976/Picture080.jpg

taffy

10-19-2008, 11:18 PM

A Bridge? I've heard it all now. For anyone thinking that the road is like a Motorway junction, on the many times I have spent at the church, you could count maybe 10 cars in an hour passing that spot. Most visitors to the Pub come from Score Lane or down Childwall Abbey Road.

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq264/sammo1976/Picture080.jpg

Go on, show us a photo of the road in the other direction from Score Lane and then say it's not dangerous

redjed1

10-20-2008, 04:57 AM

Hi Chris, Taffy + Cadfael

Don't think a set of traffic lights would work at the junction. There really isn't the traffic to justify them.

Thinking about a bridge, I don't think it would work anyway. It would look stupid and would need to be high enough to accomodate tall vehicles. I think the only solution would be to contact the highways authority and see what they could do to help at the times you are talking about. Perhaps a kind of lollypop man?

The stretch past the pub, into Score Lane, has never seemed a problem to me. Score Lane has regular speed bumps (including one on the corner by the pub).

John

Cadfael

10-20-2008, 06:47 PM

Go on, show us a photo of the road in the other direction from Score Lane and then say it's not dangerous

But it is - that's the point. You only have to look at the lack of kerb outside the lytchgate to see that numerous cars have flattened it over the years.

The whole stretch of road is quiet, if there were people walking out of the pub straight in to the road and being killed then I'm sure something would have been done before now.

My only gripe is that there has never been a recorded crash from the lytchgate to the church hall section yet this lytchgate opposite the pub has been taken down more times than I care to remember. The road here is narrow and there is no protection from the cars passing by very close.

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq264/sammo1976/105_0589.jpg

taffy

10-20-2008, 07:32 PM

Cadfael

10-20-2008, 08:14 PM

Thanks Cadfael for the aerial photo of the Score Lane blind bend. We'll have to differ on perceived risks to children of vehicles coming round this bend at speed. Speed bumps don't tend to slow such people down !!!

I'll have to get this one straight - are you more happy with bods crossing at the pub lytchgate or the next one down opposite the church hall side entrance? I am of the party which has no problem with the current 'crossing' yet feel that people are at major risk at the 'corner' - is this your view too?

taffy

10-22-2008, 07:54 AM

I'll have to get this one straight - are you more happy with bods crossing at the pub lytchgate or the next one down opposite the church hall side entrance? I am of the party which has no problem with the current 'crossing' yet feel that people are at major risk at the 'corner' - is this your view too?

Both are hazardous really but the I see the real hazard as when the large numbers Sunday school children queue to cross at the road at the from the church hall to the Church's south porch entrance. Risk of course is a matter of judgement, the accuracy of which only time will reveaL. The essence of road safety is however to assess these risks and act accordingly. The fact that something hasn't happened is not an argument for doing nothing.

Cadfael

10-22-2008, 08:56 AM

That's very true, but there is also trying to create a problem when one doesn't exist. If we have been crossing the road since 1930 when the church hall was built, to my knowledge, there has never been an incident when crossing the road - and this is nearly 4 times a month for me for a good number of years on the busiest times.

No point in suddenly claiming that the road is dangerous (the PCC, not you) when in reality, there hasn't been an issue.