More concrete Gardens

[Colin Wilkinson]

http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Cartwright-Gardens.jpg (http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/more-concrete-gardens/cartwright-gardens/)
Cartwright Gardens, 1975
http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Prince-Albert-Gardens.jpg (http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/more-concrete-gardens/prince-albert-gardens/)
Prince Albert Gardens, St James Street, 1974
http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Kent-Gardens1.jpg (http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/more-concrete-gardens/kent-gardens-2/)
Kent Gardens, 1970
http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/St-Oswald.jpg (http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/more-concrete-gardens/st-oswald/)
St Oswald’s Gardens (on left) 1979
My last post on Liverpool’s inter-War tenements created a lot of interest, so here are a few more photographs of now-demolished blocks. The only one I am struggling to name is the block on the right in St Oswald Street, Old Swan. The tenements on the left are St Oswald’s Gardens, which were demolished to make way for a Tesco superstore in 2000.
I have been referencing an interesting book Housing: A European Survey published in 1936, which included local authority housing in Paris, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Stockholm and Barcelona as well as Liverpool, London, Leeds and Birmingham. The survey was of progressive schemes to improve the housing conditions of the working class and it heralds the unprecedented efforts made since the War ended in 1918 to tackle the slum housing and overcrowding prevalent in all of the cities covered.
Sir Lancelot Keay provided the information for Liverpool and it was under his guidance that the city pioneered both the tenements and what he named cottages (the council houses still standing along Queen’s Drive, in Dovecot, Speke and elsewhere), His plans were for 5,000 cottages and 16,000 flats.
The cottages were preferred by the younger generation whilst the older generation were happier being rehoused in the city centre neighbourhoods they were familiar with. The need for city centre tenements was primarily to provide proximity to the docks for workers.
It would be hard to underestimate what moving into a new flat must have been like for the fortunate tenants. For the first time, most would have running (and hot) water, an indoor toilet and bathroom, dry and spacious living areas and a kitchen fitted with a gas cooker. By the time the photographs were taken in the 1970s, they were no longer modern and needed considerable renovation to bring them up to standard. As we know, the agreed solution was to demolish them – so we are only left with a photographic record of a major housing initiative.

More... (http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/more-concrete-gardens/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=more-concrete-gardens)

[Gerard Fleming]

http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Cartwright-Gardens.jpg (http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/more-concrete-gardens/cartwright-gardens/)
Cartwright Gardens, 1975




Colin...


It was Cartwright House, not Gardens..
and each of them blocks had a different name..
they were not all Cartwright House..
that block is also Lionel House...Thurlow House.. and Downe House..

The shop in the photo was Jim Morans..




Edited.. and deleted..

Too much info that nobody will have a clue what I'm on about
relating to the area in the photo....or will be bothered about knowing...





I hope some of that helps Colin...



Gerard.

[collegepudding]

Wow ! thats some in depth detail from Gerard,

isnt the block on the right in the St Oswald street shot Hurst Gardens ?

collegepudding

[Gerard Fleming]

Wow ! thats some in depth detail from Gerard,

isnt the block on the right in the St Oswald street shot Hurst Gardens ?

collegepudding





Edited.. and deleted..


Too much personal family info again relating to the Cartwright House photo.






I wouldn't know about Old Swan cp... sorry mate. :PDT11



Gerard.

[collegepudding]

Good God Gerard , I know I have said it before but you are a walking encyclopaedia of Liverpool and its Characters and especially the little italy area...you're a very valuable contributor to this forum mate! thanks for the in depth post :handclap:

collegepudding

[Norm NZ]

And the 'Best of All'! Speke Road Gardens!!!!!!!
24224

Not my pic, saw this on 'YO' some time ago! so Thanks to the photographer responsible.:PDT11

[Gerard Fleming]

Good God Gerard , I know I have said it before but you are a walking encyclopaedia of Liverpool and its Characters and especially the little italy area...you're a very valuable contributor to this forum mate! thanks for the in depth post :handclap:

collegepudding






Edited... and deleted..
Too much personal info....



My mate Franny Carlyle is spot on though... down to earth, a good lad.


Thanks cp.. :PDT11


Gerard..

[GeorgePorgie]

Da mn I missed some :(

[collegepudding]

Interesting points Gerard, and you,re spot on about Frank Carlyle {only his bessie mates can call him Franny cant they mate :D }. Only last week i was in Radio Merseyside shop buying his latest DVD , he puts all the High Brow Chappies into the shade with his talent for engaging an audience and putting over his subject in an easy to understand way, and most impotant of all, its always fun too .

Collegepudding

[Gerard Fleming]

Interesting points Gerard, and you,re spot on about Frank Carlisle {only his bessie mates can call him Franny cant they mate :D }. Only last week i was in Radio Merseyside shop buying his latest DVD , he puts all the High Brow Chappies into the shade with his talent for engaging an audience and putting over his subject in an easy to understand way, and most impotant of all, its always fun too .

Collegepudding



You call him Franny next time cp... tell him I said so.. :unibrow:


speak soon mate... :PDT11


Gerard..

[Gerard Fleming]

Good God Gerard , I know I have said it before but you are a walking encyclopaedia of Liverpool and its Characters and especially the little italy area...you're a very valuable contributor to this forum mate! thanks for the in depth post :handclap:

collegepudding



Sorry cp mate for deleting what I'd earlier put..
I think some of that was a little too personal...
nobody would have a clue or relate to any of my personal/family
experiences involving the Cartwright House photo..


Sorry mate.. :PDT11



Gerard.

[hmtmaj]

isnt the block on the right in the St Oswald street shot Hurst Gardens ?

collegepudding

Yes CP, it was Hurst Gardens

Mart

[GeorgePorgie]

http://inacityliving.piczo.com/?g=50570994&cr=7

[collegepudding]

Yes CP, it was Hurst Gardens

Mart


Thanks for confirming that Mart .:PDT11


collegepudding

---------- Post added at 08:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------


Sorry cp mate for deleting what I'd earlier put..
I think some of that was a little too personal...
nobody would have a clue or relate to any of my personal/family
experiences involving the Cartwright House photo..


Sorry mate.. :PDT11



Gerard.


Thats perfectly understandable Gerard, I agree with your decision to Edit & Delete.The World Wide web may sometimes be ok for private thoughts but some Private family details etc are usually best not submitted.
Thanks all the same for your original comments and i understood & appreciated your reasons for posting them. .:PDT11


collegepudding[COLOR="Silver"]

[Ged]

The first photo is a beauty as far as i'm concerned as we lived in the top block before moving into the Gardens. Although it might look like one long block, the four were each staggered as they came down the hill.

The curved end of the elevated walkway can be seen on the left, we used to ride our bikes down these to a back wheel turn skid at the bottom. It would always bode well to make sure some woman wasn't about to make her way up with a pram before starting.

The shop done very well out of the residents, my mam being one who frequented it often.

[ItsaZappathing]

You call him Franny next time cp... tell him I said so.. :unibrow:


speak soon mate... :PDT11


Gerard..

I always call him Franny and he still calls me by my nickname.

Good posts all :handclap:

[Gerard Fleming]

Thanks for confirming that Mart .:PDT11


collegepudding

---------- Post added at 08:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------




Thats perfectly understandable Gerard, I agree with your decision to Edit & Delete.The World Wide web may sometimes be ok for private thoughts but some Private family details etc are usually best not submitted.
Thanks all the same for your original comments and i understood & appreciated your reasons for posting them. .:PDT11


collegepudding[COLOR="Silver"]



Thanks mate... :PDT11




Gerard.

[collegepudding]

Colin is a very knowledgeable person on the social History of Liverpool, his threads are always keenly awaited by myself ,and' if the number of thanks that are always submitted to his posts are any indication then a large ,number of regular posters also feel the same.
The thing that slightly irritates me is on a number of occasions he fails to show appreciation ,within the thread, of the feedback he consistently receives from members...A quick post thanking everyone for their input would be most appreciated. just a little point, but one I feel should be made.

Keep posting Colin, i am a big fan of your input to the forum and of your Bluecote publications .:PDT11

collegepudding

[Marty1]

Thank you CP !!

[collegepudding]

Thank you CP !!

lollol

collegepudding

Edit :

By the way, Colin was in fact on line whilst i was inputting the last post !

[JNugent]

It was Cartwright House, not Gardens..
and each of them blocks had a different name..
they were not all Cartwright House..
that block is also Lionel House...Thurlow House.. and Downe House..
The shop in the photo was Jim Morans..

Gerard.

I'd never have remembered the names of those flats, but Moran's shop - a general grocer's and sweetshop - I remember very well. We lived for a while in the Byrom Arms, the top floor of which would have been approximately the spot the photo was taken from.

JN

[Gerard Fleming]

I'd never have remembered the names of those flats, but Moran's shop - a general grocer's and sweetshop - I remember very well. We lived for a while in the Byrom Arms, the top floor of which would have been approximately the spot the photo was taken from.

JN


I remember Jim Morans well, very well as my mam shopped in there..



Gerard.

[Ged]

I'd never have remembered the names of those flats, but Moran's shop - a general grocer's and sweetshop - I remember very well. We lived for a while in the Byrom Arms, the top floor of which would have been approximately the spot the photo was taken from.

JN



Hello JN.

A pic of the Byrom Arms for you. Listed as both 32-34 Byrom st and 2-4 Hunter street, this photo is from 1912 when it was run by George Henry Allen, it then had adjoining cocoa rooms. It replaced the earlier Brunswick buildings. Hunter st once had 16 pubs as well as Mellors brewery, Mellors owned a number of pubs in the city, it was taken over by Higsons. This pub was demolished to make way for re-widening of the street and to include the flyovers. Pic and info - Freddy O'Connor. A pub called the Byrom aka locally as the Pie Shop was built on the opposite side of Byrom street much later than this one.

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8774/byromarms.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/byromarms.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[JNugent]

Wow!

I'm so grateful for that picture, Ged. Although there were two floors above the pub, each floor was effectively a separate flat (accessed from a door in Hunter Street which led to a couple of staircases parallel with Byrom Street - ie, behind the building, with windows facing up the hill). Both flats were massive, as you can imagine, and each had three bedrooms, a large living room, kitchen and bathroom. My brother and I shared a huge bedroom big enough to ride a (small) bike around. The windows to that room were just above the "ALES" part of the gold signwriting fronting Byrom Street. The living rooms were at the back. Sometimes we would play on the empty floor above, though it always felt a little spooky!

JN

[Ged]

Great recollections there JN and another Wow to the collection. It's great when a photo stirs the memory isn't it. I bet you hadn't seen that scene since you were last there. Thanks for posting about what it was like living there. :PDT11

[gregs dad]

Never went in there but often wondered did the bar counter slant like the floor ?

[Ged]

I suppose not, the Vernon is that same, you just don't get served at the bottom end if you're under 6ft Joe. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[lindylou]

Wow!

I'm so grateful for that picture, Ged. Although there were two floors above the pub, each floor was effectively a separate flat (accessed from a door in Hunter Street which led to a couple of staircases parallel with Byrom Street - ie, behind the building, with windows facing up the hill). Both flats were massive, as you can imagine, and each had three bedrooms, a large living room, kitchen and bathroom. My brother and I shared a huge bedroom big enough to ride a (small) bike around. The windows to that room were just above the "ALES" part of the gold signwriting fronting Byrom Street. The living rooms were at the back. Sometimes we would play on the empty floor above, though it always felt a little spooky!

JN

Interesting memories there :PDT11 - I can just picture the place as you describe it.

[Gerard Fleming]

Colin is a very knowledgeable person on the social History of Liverpool, his threads are always keenly awaited by myself ,and' if the number of thanks that are always submitted to his posts are any indication then a large ,number of regular posters also feel the same.
The thing that slightly irritates me is on a number of occasions he fails to show appreciation ,within the thread, of the feedback he consistently receives from members...A quick post thanking everyone for their input would be most appreciated. just a little point, but one I feel should be made.

Keep posting Colin, i am a big fan of your input to the forum and of your Bluecote publications .:PDT11

collegepudding


Well said mate.... an honest statement from you as usual... :PDT11




Gerard.

[lindylou]

It's great when a photo stirs the memory isn't it.

It's true Ged, how an old photo stirs memories. :nod: I'm in that mode at the moment researching a bit of history of my area.

It's nice to read posts like JN when someone is made up with a pic of their old stamping ground.

[Ged]

It is indeed and just like anyone knowing the real history of the area, the knowledge and old photos are always a welcome addition. :PDT11

[GeorgePorgie]

It is indeed and just like anyone knowing the real history of the area, the knowledge and old photos are always a welcome addition.

Sadly not all of us can obtain photies of their place of growing up. :tear:

[Ged]

I got you some didn't I Geogie Porgie puddin' n pie?

If not I will sure as hell try. Ask away.

[GeorgePorgie]

No,well you did but that was at the bottom of de street...twould be great looking down or up the street and a photie of Albion House Club at the top as thats where me first kiss happened and I were only 8 and the lady was 17. :)

[Ged]

It's a good job she wasn't a year older or she'd have been a paedo George. The fact is was your trainee teacher in school was a bit near the knuckle too. Jeez - some people want their actual house on these old pics and believe me i'm up to double figures on that one and even a few with the actual people or family on them too. I will do my best but if a pic wasn't taken then I haven't got a time machine as well. Albion street wasn't it?

[lindylou]

some people want their actual house on these old pics and believe me i'm up to double figures on that one and even a few with the actual people or family on them too. I will do my best but if a pic wasn't taken then I haven't got a time machine as well. Albion street wasn't it?

I bet it's a labour of love tho' Ged. :)

A never ending task, but a fascinating one I'm sure. :PDT11

[GeorgePorgie]

It's a good job she wasn't a year older or she'd have been a paedo George.

I was sellin Beatles Calenders and she did not have enough so I took what she had and the rest is history. :)

[Ged]

It is Lindy and I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it. Anyone can go taking their hundredth pic of the Liver, Town Hall or Empire as they've all been done to death and will be there in another X number of years but the anticipation of pulling out a few dozen pics from a folder you've asked to see which has never been out before or with very few names on it is something else. I'm a smidgen the way through the LRO files and that's with 50 thou photos and counting. If I put 5 photos of a street on my site, you can bet it's 5 out of 25 I actually took copies of so it's always worth asking - and I do get asked - a lot. :PDT11:PDT_Piratz_26:

---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------


I was sellin Beatles Calenders and she did not have enough so I took what she had and the rest is history. :)

Did they have holes in - oh sorry, Calendars?

[Gerard Fleming]

I bet it's a labour of love tho' Ged. :)

A never ending task, but a fascinating one I'm sure. :PDT11



Its like taking the only photos Linda on the closing night inside The Odeon on London Rd..
or The Everyman Theatre kitchens with the staff at work.. gone, cant be taken again..
or roaming around Lewis's during the closing days..
Remember T.Brown the jewellers on London Rd ?...
do you see any photos inside there ?....
I got the last day closing party photos in T.Brown..

Or hundreds of photos taken on the Heritage Market roof at the Stanley Dock..
have you seen them....
what about the canal link construction...thats now under water ?
cant be taken again....
the same as Concourse House balcony.. hundreds of photos taken.
they might seem insignificant now...
but thank god somebody took them for future generations to see..



I have no doubt whatsoever that when my photos end up in Librarys or wherever...
They will be shown by all kinds for people to see how Liverpool looked..


And I walk the streets of my town taking the photos I do Linda
because its my labour of love... :PDT11



Thanks Linda.. :PDT_Aliboronz_11:



Gerard.

[gregs dad]

Don`t forget,the old pics we like looking at now were mundane to the people who were around then.

The pics we are taking now are the future records of the past, even the legoland towers.

Except mine, the missus says they are going on the bonfire with me.

It`s just a hobby with me

[lindylou]

Yes, I've seen everyone's photos new ones and old ones :PDT11 Joe, Gerard, Colin, Ged. All putting lots of effort into recording our city and reminding us of the places that no longer exist. A great help for anyone looking up their local history and seeing places where their families lived. It's one of the best things about the forum, so much history and memories are here- also as Joe says, the pics being taken now are the pics for the future. :PDT11

[Colin Wilkinson]

Colin is a very knowledgeable person on the social History of Liverpool, his threads are always keenly awaited by myself ,and' if the number of thanks that are always submitted to his posts are any indication then a large ,number of regular posters also feel the same.
The thing that slightly irritates me is on a number of occasions he fails to show appreciation ,within the thread, of the feedback he consistently receives from members...A quick post thanking everyone for their input would be most appreciated. just a little point, but one I feel should be made.

Keep posting Colin, i am a big fan of your input to the forum and of your Bluecote publications .:PDT11

collegepudding

Hi Collegepudding,

Many thanks for the post and my apologies if I haven't shown due appreciation. The truth is my blog isn't aimed specifically at YoLiverpool but is out there for anyone interested in the photos I post. I fit it in in the evening after work along with working on a couple of books planned for the next few months. It all takes a lot of time and I don't always get the time I would like to answer all the emails and replies I get daily. I'll try harder but I really do appreciate the support even if I don't often add to the thread (I only do that if I can add something substantive to the discussion).

[collegepudding]

Hi Colin.
Thanks for replying and addressing the issue i raised in my previous post, its reassuring to note you do appreciate the input and support offered on Yo Liverpool in reply to your Blogs . The issues relating to constraints on your available time are understood, and I wish you well on the progress with your new books.

Thanks .

collegepudding

[Ged]

Anyone visiting the records office really must see Joe McLoughlins dozens of photos of what looks like a record of every piece in T. Browns jewellers together with the upstairs workshops etc. Also dozens of the inside of Cunard Buildings. All donated to the library/records office. It comes under 'Commercial' in the index of the orange directory. The staff there will know what you're talking about. :PDT11:PDT_Piratz_26::PDT_Piratz_26:

[Gerard Fleming]

Hi Colin.
Thanks for replying and addressing the issue i raised in my previous post, its reassuring to note you do appreciate the input and support offered on Yo Liverpool in reply to your Blogs . The issues relating to constraints on your available time are understood, and I wish you well on the progress with your new books.

Thanks .

collegepudding



Well said cp...

Whether its unusual Liverpool photos some of us take..
or borrowed from books, Librarys etc.. they are all great to see...

In my case, the hours I put in walking the streets taking my photos
is all worth it for the enjoyment they bring...here, and to all my Facebook friends.
plus, its great getting out and about at all hours on the likes of Kenny, or down Granby.

Theres so much to see around Liverpool... and its a buzz being out on the streets for me...day, and night...



Keep on snappin'.... or doin' whatever rocks your boat Liverpool photo wise...



Gerard.. :PDT11