Draw for the 2007/08 Champions League
British teams in bold and the top seeds in CAPITALS

Group A
LIVERPOOL
Porto
Marseille
Besiktas


Group B
CHELSEA
Valencia
Schalke 04
Rosenborg


Group C
REAL MADRID
Werder Bremen
Lazio
Olympiakos


Group D
AC MILAN
Benfica
Celtic
Shakhtar Donetsk


Group E
BARCELONA
Lyon
Stuttgart
Rangers


Group F
MANCHESTER UNITED
Roma
Sporting Lisbon
Dynamo Kiev


Group G
INTER MILAN
PSV Eindhoven
CSKA Moscow
Fenerbahce


Group H
ARSENAL
Sevilla/AEK Athens
Steau Bucharest
Slavia Prague

Looks like a good group for Liverpool. Great! Thanks, Paul D!

Chris

I don't think united will fancy going to Rome after last years crowd trouble.

I don't think united will fancy going to Rome after last years crowd trouble.

Good point. And considering they are lacking a centre forward at the moment. . . :rolleyes:

Chris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZZsga-mC-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SNfeA3RInM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3bNbOrijHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF49HrSG-VI&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSU0sosGSzU

lol @ the above post.

must have been straight on google after the draw..Liverpool-forum-football..bingo! YoLiverpool!

Yes I am happy with that draw,wonder if Raffa will surprise us with any last minute signing's.The transfer window does close tomorrow at midnight?

1* Beşiktaş Jk ..... 15 puan
2* Liverpoll ...... 9 Puan
3* Porto ........... 5 puan
4* Marsilla ........ 0 puan :D

1* Beşiktaş Jk ..... 15 puan
2* Liverpoll ...... 9 Puan
3* Porto ........... 5 puan
4* Marsilla ........ 0 puan :D


Kev!! we are under attack :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

1* Beşiktaş Jk ..... 15 puan
2* Liverpoll ...... 9 Puan
3* Porto ........... 5 puan
4* Marsilla ........ 0 puan :D

Are you talking about the same Liverpool FC who knocked out Barcelona and Chelsea????

2003*2004--- Chelsa:0 Beşiktaş:2 Gol: Sergen yalçın
2007*2008--- Liverpol:0 Beşiktaş: 1 Gol: Bobo
Beşiktaş:2 Liverpol: 0 Gol: Rihardinho */ İbrahim Akın

2003*2004--- Chelsa:0 Beşiktaş:0 Gol: Sergen yalçın
2007*2008--- Liverpol:0 Beşiktaş: 1
Beşiktaş:2 Liverpol: 0

Keep dreaming son:PDT11

what you going to do to stop this guy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6ECETK6_fk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM3GHI5xR9U

LOL hats off I enjoyed that:handclap::handclap:

Çarşı!!!!:unibrow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORz8PsU3EoA&mode=related&search=

2003*2004--- Chelsa:0 Beşiktaş:2 Gol: Sergen yalçın
2007*2008--- Liverpol:0 Beşiktaş: 1 Gol: Bobo
Beşiktaş:2 Liverpol: 0 Gol: Rihardinho */ İbrahim Akın

You were warned this would happen if you stopped taking the tablets.:rolleyes:

The Reds will kick off their campaign away in Porto on September 18 before entertaining Marseille in their first Anfield game of the competition.

A double header with Besiktas will then follow before we entertain Porto at home and then conclude the group fixtures away at Marseille.

The dates are as follows:

September

18 Porto (away)

October

3 Marseille (home)
24 Besiktas (away)

November

6 Besiktas (home)
28 Porto (home)

December

11 Marseille (away)

Good draw for us. I think we will qualify with Oporto. Hopefully ManU & Chelski won't get further than the group stage. I'm a Celtic fan but I think both they and Rangers are out.

I was at game tonight...What a poor performance by Liverpool.I thought Marseille passing was very good and putting pressure on to Liverpool players was good...The goal was very good but that is all..After all it was boring game..
Saying that even a performance like this would be enough to beat Besiktas..:):):)

Soyle bakalim Besiktasjk,15 puani nasil toplayacaksin? Puan toplamak armut toplamaya benzemiyor.

I was at game tonight...What a poor performance by Liverpool.I thought Marseille passing was very good and putting pressure on to Liverpool players was good...The goal was very good but that is all..After all it was boring game..
Saying that even a performance like this would be enough to beat Besiktas..:):):)

Soyle bakalim Besiktasjk,15 puani nasil toplayacaksin? Puan toplamak armut toplamaya benzemiyor.

Hi kebabman

I watched the game just now, taped on my TV from ESPN. A pretty inept performance by Liverpool IMHO. We could hardly string two passes together, balls going astray all over the park... and we only began to show any passion in the last 10 minutes or so when it was too late. They will have to show a lot more or face an early exit from the Champions League. Poor show. :(

Chris

Hi kebabman

I watched the game just now, taped on my TV from ESPN. A pretty inept performance by Liverpool IMHO. We could hardly string two passes together, balls going astray all over the park... and we only began to show any passion in the last 10 minutes or so when it was too late. They will have to show a lot more or face an early exit from the Champions League. Poor show. :(

Chris

inept incompetent clueness awful dire diabolical

I agree that it was very very very poor performance by Liverpool...

Here is a few photies from this game....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sefik_akkurt/sets/72157602250939728/

Marseille deserved to win last night, they were hungry for it. Liverpool just looked like they were just going through the motions (poorly!). If they want to get further than the group stages they really need to raise their game. Watching them last night, you wouldn't believe they were playing at Anfield. They were terrible.

I've never had any faith in Rafa. We wouldn't have won the Champion's League two years ago based on the 11 men he put out. They effectively lost the game 3-0. It only changed when he put Sissoko and Cisse on and they hooked up with Gerrard. This rotation system he's employing just doesn't seem to work.

I hope he proves me wrong soon........:rolleyes:

Marseille deserved to win last night, they were hungry for it. Liverpool just looked like they were just going through the motions (poorly!). If they want to get further than the group stages they really need to raise their game. Watching them last night, you wouldn't believe they were playing at Anfield. They were terrible.

I've never had any faith in Rafa. We wouldn't have won the Champion's League two years ago based on the 11 men he put out. They effectively lost the game 3-0. It only changed when he put Sissoko and Cisse on and they hooked up with Gerrard. This rotation system he's employing just doesn't seem to work.

I hope he proves me wrong soon........:rolleyes:

Hi Matt

Actually Cisse looked pretty sharp last night compared to our shower, even though he only came on in the last few minutes. He nearly got a second goal for Marseille near the end. And Zenden, who played most of the match, looked better than our midfielders as well. :(

Chris

All thats shown for me in the last couple of games is the complete lack of tackling and closing down by the Liverpool players. There was a period of about 5 minutes against Wigan where there were no tackles being made.

Also, has anyone noticed this run of poor form also conincides with Pako leaving?

Also, has anyone noticed this run of poor form also conincides with Pako leaving?


Yes, been discussing it with mates today

I've never had any faith in Rafa. We wouldn't have won the Champion's League two years ago based on the 11 men he put out. They effectively lost the game 3-0.

Rafa made the neccessary substitutions that saw us win the Cup. How can you blame him for the starting line up but refuse to give him credit for the changes he made ?:confused:


I hope he proves me wrong soon........:rolleyes:

He's in a no win situation where the Rafa bashers are concerned, we win and nothing get's said, we draw or lose and it's all Rafa's fault.

We were awful on Wednesday, and it was nobody's fault but the players themselves, they looked like they couldn't care less.

Prem team managers will always be judged on their team winning the league, it's the benchmark, always will be - to that end only 3 managers in the last 10 years or more can grin ear to ear. Cup competititons and even Euro mini leagues where you can lose and still go through are a nice diversion yes, but I noticed the studio experts were already saying on wednesday night after Liverpool's set back that it's not the end of the world because even if they went out, they could then concentrate on the league and it's what the vast vast majority of any teams fans want. Everton could have went out quite easily last night but went through, that's the fine line that isn't so easily papered over in a 38 game tough league where you don't get the time on the ball that you somehow do in Europe.

Rafa made the neccessary substitutions that saw us win the Cup. How can you blame him for the starting line up but refuse to give him credit for the changes he made ?:confused:



He's in a no win situation where the Rafa bashers are concerned, we win and nothing get's said, we draw or lose and it's all Rafa's fault.

We were awful on Wednesday, and it was nobody's fault but the players themselves, they looked like they couldn't care less.

Yeah, fair points mate, he made changes that led to the game being won, but I'm sure that was more by luck than judgement, as he hadn't fielded his strongest side. But yeah, he made the changes and won the game.

Look at the game on Wednesday.Yeah, the players didn't look bothered and deserved the result they got, but Liverpool couldn't break Marseille down, so what did Rafa do with his substitutions? Replaced like for like and nothing else. Surely you'd change formation and strategy......

Were Babel and Pennant suspended or injured on Wednesday? Those players could have been game changers and to have helped break Marseille down. Forwards only thrive on service.

Chris

In ref to the 3-3 final - a great spectacle achieved when the 2 scousers decided to grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

A great draw was achieved in that game, not a win, it was then a lottery and yes it was partly down to luck as Harry Sh------- Kewell (as his own fans sing about him) limped off injured only to do a 100m sprint with the cup after they'd won it ;)

Having said that, the experts agreed the other night, start with your best 11 and stick with them, making 'fatigue' changes later in the season if required whereby you might've built a lead up by then rather than trying to play catch-up. I think it's more a case these days of trying to keep everyone happy, we've already heard Crouch making 'away' noises.

Were Babel and Pennant suspended or injured on Wednesday? Those players could have been game changers and to have helped break Marseille down. Forwards only thrive on service.

Chris

Pennant was defo suspended. I'm amazed that Babel didn't have some involvement tho (is he injured?).

The subs I really didn't understand (and Rafa has been doing this in the Prem League for the past 2-3 weeks as well) of replacing the wingers with strikers.

There has been little or no service from the wings in the past 3 weeks. All very well have a £24m striker, but no good if you can't get the ball to him.

Prem team managers will always be judged on their team winning the league,

But how many rebuilt a team and won one in their first few seasons ?

Look at Ferguson, he was in charge for seven seasons before he won the league, and manu were crap for much of that seven years, 11th in his first season, 11th in his 3rd, 13th in his 4th ?

Christ it's bad enough now with some of the Rafa bashers, imagine if he'd had a start like that.:rolleyes:

Look at the game on Wednesday.Yeah, the players didn't look bothered and deserved the result they got, but Liverpool couldn't break Marseille down, so what did Rafa do with his substitutions? Replaced like for like and nothing else. Surely you'd change formation and strategy......

His decision to play Leto backfired, so he substituted him very early in the second half. He brought on Veronin for Aurelio which was an attacker for a defender. In hindsight Babel might have been effective out wide and Mascherano might have added a bit of a spark, Sissoko was awful, but then again who wasn't ?

Well the last person I can think of won it at his first attempt, errr Jose something or other and he didn't fall for all the 'give them 3 seasons to gel together bull either', because if you're on 100k a week you should be good enough to play with the fella next to you who's on 100k a week. In essence though I agree with you. Most managers will take over take 3 seasons to weed out all the players who they don't like or are not theirs, this is what all the Liverpool managers since 1990 and all the Everton managers since 1987 have done but still to no effect in the top flight as yet but these teams now do belong to Rafa and Moyes. Ferguson did inherit a team that Everton use to beat 5 nil and 3 nil regularly so yes I agree he had a bit of rebuilding to do. This train of thought then gives the new Chelsea bloke 3 years grace does it, I don't think Abramovich will see it like that though :)

Well the last person I can think of won it at his first attempt, errr Jose something or other and he didn't fall for all the 'give them 3 seasons to gel together bull either',

Oh come on Ged, Maureen inherited one of the best squads in the league from Ranieri, they'd just finished runners up in the Prem and then Abramovich spent hundreds of millions on making the team even better.

How can you compare managers who have had to rebuild with the likes of that ?:rolleyes:

Well it's like comparing Houllier who spent 100m with Walter Smith isn't it? Isn't that what us poor relations have to put up with. Do you think Ranieri's side would have won the league the following season because Watford and West Ham have been runners up but no-one remembers them? Only if you can answer yes to that does it make 'Maureens' achievement a none event. By the way, Lfc were the biggest spenders in 2000-2003 inclusive and last close season 2007 so isn't that just trying to buy the league then, in fact doesn't every manager spend whatever he can get out of the board to win the league only some shop at Sainsburys and some at the Aldi?

Well it's like comparing Houllier who spent 100m with Walter Smith isn't it?

Well yes actually it is.

Houllier finished above Everton every season he was here, he won a helluva lot more in the way of trophies but I wouldn't say he was a better manager because he had much more money to spend than Smith did.

They were both flops if you ask me.

The only difference is that our flop cost us a lot more than yours did.:rolleyes:

Yes in premier league terms he was a flop but he won cups but my discussion is about prem league winning ability. I'd be disappointed if we ever did get a sugar daddy who could give us 100m (well, today's equivalent) and not bring us the league but like him or not, Maureen proved that great players don't need time to gel, you shouldn't be afforded time if you've got a kings ransom to spend and he wasn't and he didn't need it. I just googled Ranieri's last team that got him the sack, the vast majority were soon got rid of. There's no doubt Smith was a flop, it also didn't help we had that clown from park hampers/tranmere running the show behind his back.

I think it's more a case these days of trying to keep everyone happy, we've already heard Crouch making 'away' noises.

I'll open the door for crouch on his way out, he was given a chance against Reading and Marseille and showed no desire in either game,vindicting Rafa's decision to demote him to 4th choice

I'll open the door for crouch on his way out, he was given a chance against Reading and Marseille and showed no desire in either game,vindicting Rafa's decision to demote him to 4th choice

That's the most baffling part imho, in theory the rotation system is supposed to have everyone trying to prove that they deserve more games, it seems to have the opposite effect on Crouch.:rolleyes:

Liverpool has lost again... Besiktas 2 Liverpool 1...
Played 3 game and with 1 point bottom of table...For any chance going up knock out stage of CL ,Liverpool has to win next 3 CL game...Can Liverpool do it?
Liverpool has played some good football some part of game tonight but wasn't enough to win...

Most probably I'll be at Anfield for Liverpool VS Besiktas and will take plenty pictures..Hopefully I can watch good football too..I don't want to see another performance like Liverpool played aganist Marseille..

Liverpool has lost againist Besiktas 2-1...
Played 3 game and with 1 point bottom of table...For any chance Liverpool has to win next 3 CL game...Can Liverpool do it?
Liverpool has played some good football some part of game tonight but wasn't enough to win...

Most probably I'll be at Anfield for Liverpool VS Besiktas and will take plenty pictures..Hopefully I can watch good football too..I don't want to see another performance like Liverpool played aganist Marseille..

Hello Kebabman

A very poor performance by Liverpool tonight. I saw it at a bar here in Washington, D.C. Another fan near me was a Turk who rejoiced in the win. I don't blame him. Liverpool didn't deserve to win and it looks as if we are destined for the UEFA Cup. Rafa Benitez needs to get his act together. As in the Champions League final last year, I think Peter Crouch needed to be on from the beginning. His introduction toward the end led to Gerrard's goal. But once more, too little too late.

Best regards

Chris

it looks as if we are destined for the UEFA Cup.


..and Everton tonk them in the final. :-)

Listening to 2 comments last night. Andy Gray got it right when he laughed you can talk about tactics all you want but Liverpool only got at them with the up at at em' style near the end when Crouch came on - it was like a lot of teams having to go for it - the alamo and it almost paid off.

Rafa made a comment about being in control. Gullit disputed it with finesse.

Having possession which the opposition don't mind is not being in control, not creating clear chances is not being in control, they only created the possibility of chances and you don't win games with half way line possession. Rafa isn't the only 'master tactician' guilty of saying the following and it makes me smile 'If we play like that in the future we will win' - No, if you play like that in the future - you will lose 2-1.

Listening to 2 comments last night. Andy Gray got it right when he laughed you can talk about tactics all you want but Liverpool only got at them with the up at at em' style near the end when Crouch came on - it was like a lot of teams having to go for it - the alamo and it almost paid off.

Rafa made a comment about being in control. Gullit disputed it with finesse.

Having possession which the opposition don't mind is not being in control, not creating clear chances is not being in control, they only created the possibility of chances and you don't win games with half way line possession. Rafa isn't the only 'master tactician' guilty of saying the following and it makes me smile 'If we play like that in the future we will win' - No, if you play like that in the future - you will lose 2-1.

As I said last night, Crouch should have been on much earlier, maybe from the beginning. Also the same in the Champions League final against AC Milan last May. A dreadful result which once again makes me doubt Benitez's decisionmaking. :PDT_Xtremez_42:

Chris

I notice a couple of you think it might be Benitez's last season. Do you really think he'd be given 50M to spend last summer and only 1 season to do anything with it (forgetting his earlier pre- USA involvement deals of course)?

A lot of other clubs would love to have achieved his lfc cup successes but do you think the holy grail that the prem has become to lfc would cut short his managerial career at lfc this quickly?

I notice a couple of you think it might be Benitez's last season. Do you really think he'd be given 50M to spend last summer and only 1 season to do anything with it (forgetting his earlier pre- USA involvement deals of course)?

A lot of other clubs would love to have achieved his lfc cup successes but do you think the holy grail that the prem has become to lfc would cut short his managerial career at lfc this quickly?

Hi Ged

When you are at a big club you have to produce results. I don't think that Gillette and Hicks as businessmen will stick with somebody who does not produce for them so Rafa at least might be on borrowed time. How many years has he had? How many years more does he need? As I see it some of his decisions from the beginning have been dodgy. At the moment he is looking no better than Houllier, whom I don't think was a bad manager.

Chris

Houllier got 105M though didn't he - at least let the owners waste a similar amount with Rafa before ditching him. :unibrow:

It'll be no consolation, but you're a lot nearer to winning the prem than us :ninja:

Houllier got 105M though didn't he - at least let the owners waste a similar amount with Rafa before ditching him. :unibrow:

It'll be no consolation, but you're a lot nearer to winning the prem than us :ninja:

I like that last statement. More! More! :handclap:

If Houllier got 105M are you talking about over his total reign... then how much has Benitez received over his regime. :rolleyes:

I just think that some of Rafa's players that he has brought in have been bad decisions, I keep bringing up Pellegrino and Josemi but there's also Mark Gonzalez who never performed, Morientes who never adapted to the Premier League. And the comedy of errors that happens so often with Reina is by now getting inexcusable. Westerveld was let go for some bad decisions but in retrospect he was not worse than Dudek who was maybe not worse than Reina at times. :PDT_Xtremez_42:

Chris

Houlliers first batch I think contained players like striker Erik Maier and Rigobert Song then when Diouf and Daio performed at the world cup they were suddenly brought in. It just shows though that I can't believe that players like Traore, Biscan and Kewell have a CL winners medal - I think it should give hope to anyone.

Having said that we've had the likes of Brett Angel, Marc Hottiger, Bob the pole and Prekki ha ha - i'm sure we could both easily make a full team of bums from the 90s and the 2000s.

It'd be great to pick the best of the best from each prem team but hey, isn't that the same joy that the International manager gets but still manages to get it wrong.

I am going to be at ground for Liverpool VS BJK ...Either in Press Box or with away supporters.
Liverpool should win,must win...
Will win 4-0

I have attended Besiktas manager press confrence this evening..
Took a few shot from traning...
Besiktas manager who is ex-Besiktas player and Koray who is current player attanded to press confrence..
Both looked miserable...Losing local derby at last Saturday has still effect on them...
None of Turkish Press writers beleives Besiktas can gain a point from Anfield tomorrow.

Here is a few shot from this evening

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2138/1880280828_24dc105e0e_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/1879462265_e29d3d70f2_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2136/1879463507_076fa6fec9_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2386/1879465471_ec6d6d5945_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2247/1879467627_83f35f5b87_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2193/1880288350_620edc25cf_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2106/1879469803_f56a99fec2_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2230/1880290246_fd8093ce40_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2331/1880293886_1c669a693e_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2091/1879475799_545bf81339_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2046/1880296658_1b4a606687_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/1879478165_483e856d3f_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2353/1880299070_9bb95a82e3_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2220/1879480777_fd330533ef_o.jpg


Would be more photies from game tomorrow

I am going to be at ground for Liverpool VS BJK ...Either in Press Box or with away supporters.
Liverpool should win,must win...
Will win 4-0
4-0 x 2=8-0

Besiktas wasn't up for a game ,their mind was somewhere else..It was too easy win for Liverpool....
All the photos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sefik_akkurt/sets/72157602943686740/

Thanks, kebabman!

Chris

Isn't that 10 goals for Crouch now in his last 12 European games?

Isn't that 10 goals for Crouch now in his last 12 European games?

Yes it is. See Peter Crouch statistics (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=5388&cc=5901) on Soccernet.

Chris

4-0 x 2=8-0

Besiktas wasn't up for a game ,their mind was somewhere else..It was too easy win for Liverpool....


If wins like that keep happening then qualification onto the CL should be re-assessed and made tighter. There should be no 8-0 wins in that league. It is supposed to be the best in Europe, and the best don't get beat 8-0.

Results like that can, and do happen. ManU beat Roma 7:1 last season.

Arsenal 7 - Sparta Prague 0 last round.

What's the opinions on this though, we know it's only a money making racket - the champions alone should be in the champions league like in the old days, more clubs are only added now to make up the mini league and more money. Clearly some leagues like in Czech, Turkey and Greece etc only have 2 main teams and not a lot after that.

I feel this even though the UEFA spots then would only be for 2nd to 4th or 5th which would probably rule Everton out. The F.A. Cup winners should go in the uefa cup too though otherwise the League cup is of better value.

I agree Ged. I also think it was sad scrapping the Cup Winners Cup. Also the old 2-leg UEFA/Fairs cup. It meant we used to have nearly a month of combined finals to look forward to. Yes, it is all about money...

Arsenal 7 - Sparta Prague 0 last round.

What's the opinions on this though, we know it's only a money making racket - the champions alone should be in the champions league like in the old days, more clubs are only added now to make up the mini league and more money.

They wanted a proper full Euro league where the teams don't play in their own respective countries, except for cup competitions. That is why they are in leagues, as a way of phasing the full league in. Promotion and relegation to it would be via a knockout of all the others. So, you could end up with mainly English teams in it, unless the knockout is seeded via Euro area.

As one Dutch guy said to me, "the English Premier is the de-facto Euro CL league, as most of the best players and managers are there, and even many of the owners of the clubs are not English either".

I remember this great spell for English clubs in the European Cup very well.

1977 - 1982. Six years inclusive and not a foreign manager or many (any) foreign players amongst them at all.

It may have only been a straight 6 or so game k.o. but you had to be a champion to be in it and if you lost you were out, not like now.

As one Dutch guy said to me, "the English Premier is the de-facto Euro CL league, as most of the best players and managers are there, and even many of the owners of the clubs are not English either".

I wouldn't agree. I think Spain have the best players and some of the best managers in the world. Messi & Ronaldinho both play in Spain and Kaka plays in Italy.

If wins like that keep happening then qualification onto the CL should be re-assessed and made tighter. There should be no 8-0 wins in that league. It is supposed to be the best in Europe, and the best don't get beat 8-0.

I agree there should be no 8-0 wins in that league...
But it has happened..Besiktas has to blame themself .
Besiktas not a very good team but they are not that bad to conceed 8 goal in normal circumstances either.

As I said their mind wasn't at Anfield they were thinking what was happening at home,in Turkey..
Last saturday they played a local derby againist Fenerbahce who is another CL team ... Fenerbahce won 2-1..Besiktas has blamed to everyone else apart from themself...They blamed to referee and called him to resign from refering..They use strong language to Turkish FA..They have threaten pulling out of league...Chairman asked to fans not to come their next game ,he asked sponsers to not to support themself anymore,he said they will continue to leugue with reserve team etc...

The chairman of Turkish FA replied to Besiktas chairman statement .Basicly said do whatever please you...

IMO Besiktas board has done a big mistake to blaming others to cover their mistakes.
Besiktas players probably thought what was going to happen them if board goes ahead with their declaration etc,etc.
Result is 8-0

And this time who they can blame..To ref:) or to Liverpool fc?

PS : At 1989 Besiktas has beat the team I support 10-0...Highest result in Turkish leugue history..At the time my team was in financial diffuculties(still we are and we are at second division since 1994),our players were in bad state,didn't get paid so many months etc..At the time Besiktas was very good team ,their manager was Gordon Milne...Gordon Milne wasn't happy with act of his players ,after game he has stated his players shouldn't score that many goals to respect opponent team fans.

here is that game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8651bfP5Eg

For this reason many of my team supporters hope more goals to reach 10 at yesterday game so they know what is like.One of supporter of my team said If goal post wasn't around it could a be as well..


At half time of yesterday game I come a cross John Aldridge in press refreshment room and asked him what is his prediction for final score? I said it is going to be at least 5-0 isn't it John? He was very politic saying you never know game might me turn around at second half etc...Told him he can be honest with me because I am Tranmere Rovers fan:) then he laughed and displayed 6 with his hand.

I agree there should be no 8-0 wins in that league...
But it has happened..Besiktas has to blame themself .
Besiktas not a very good team but they are not that bad to conceed 8 goal in normal circumstances either.

As I said their mind wasn't at Anfield they were thinking what was happening at home,in Turkey..
Last saturday they played a local derby againist Fenerbahce who is another CL team ... Fenerbahce won 2-1..Besiktas has blamed to everyone else apart from themself...They blamed to referee and called him to resign from refering..They use strong language to Turkish FA..They have threaten pulling out of league...Chairman asked to fans not to come their next game ,he asked sponsers to not to support themself anymore,he said they will continue to leugue with reserve team etc...

The chairman of Turkish FA replied to Besiktas chairman statement .Basicly said do whatever please you...

IMO Besiktas board has done a big mistake to blaming others to cover their mistakes.
Besiktas players probably thought what was going to happen them if board goes ahead with their declaration etc,etc.
Result is 8-0.

....

Hi kebabman

Are those reactions you are reporting from Besitkas because of the 8-0 thrashing by Liverpool or a result of the 2-1 loss to Turkish rival Fenerbahce? It isn't clear from your post.

Thanks in advance for clarifying.

Chris

If that's true, I can't agree with Gordon Milne not wanting his team to score as many goals as possible in respect for his opposing teams fans.

Sorry for confussion you Chris,
It seems I couldn't combined two thing in one..
All those reaction because of 2-1 loss to rival Fenerbahce..

It is going to be more radical reaction because of 8-0 as well.
Besiktas chairman was in very bad state yesterday,his blood pressure has gone very low,advise to go to hospital but he has refused..
They have to keep their word and play next game with reserves at Turkish leugue..
But if they crash next game at Turkish leugue what it is going to be happen?
if they change their mind fans will not trust them .

It is more than likely the Besiktas board will resign..

They got nothing to say about 8-0,all they are doing is saying sorry to fans..

If that's true, I can't agree with Gordon Milne not wanting his team to score as many goals as possible in respect for his opposing teams fans.
Why it should be lie?We agree or not
there are some managers thinks this way..
Romanian Mirceu Lucescu is one of them as well.
At one of the game he has publicy stopped his players to score more goals after 6th...He shouted his players to not to score any more.

If that's true, I can't agree with Gordon Milne not wanting his team to score as many goals as possible in respect for his opposing teams fans.

Many clubs do think this way. Also it degrades the league they play in and all lose overall as gates will drop. It seems to be the modern way of looking at things.

I was looking at the results of Everton in the 1950s. It was amazing. They would get beat 5-2 and score 4 in three of the next 4 or 5 games. Games then tended to be more see-saw than now - in results.

Look at 1960....Lots of 3s and 4s scored.


1. Sat 20 Aug Tottenham Hotspur........ 0-2 L
2. Wed 24 Aug MANCHESTER UNITED........ 4-0 W Lill 2, Collins 2
3. Sat 27 Aug LEICESTER CITY........... 3-1 W Ring 2, Collins
4. Wed 31 Aug Manchester United........ 0-4 L

5. Sat 3 Sep Aston Villa.............. 2-3 L Temple, Vernon
6. Mon 5 Sep Blackpool................ 4-1 W J.Harris, Temple, Collins, Vernon
7. Sat 10 Sep WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS.. 3-1 W J.Harris, Vernon 2
8. Wed 14 Sep BLACKPOOL................ 1-0 W Lill
9. Sat 17 Sep Bolton Wanderers......... 4-3 W Collins, Vernon, Lill 2
10. Sat 24 Sep WEST HAM UNITED.......... 4-1 W Ring, Vernon 2, Lill

Hi kebabman and Ged

I suppose there is something to be said for not humiliating your opponent. There also could be cases in a league system going into a knockout round where you want to place rather than top the group if you don't want to meet a certain other club, say if the Reds wished to avoid Arsenal or Chelsea, hypothetically. Of course with Liverpool's poor results of late and the accompanying relative goal drought and inability to put the ball in the net, it was time for the team to turn on the style and score as many as they could.

Chris

Hi kebabman and Ged

I suppose there is something to be said for not humiliating your opponent. There also could be cases in a league system going into a knockout round where you want to place rather than top the group if you don't want to meet a certain other club, say if the Reds wished to avoid Arsenal or Chelsea, hypothetically. Of course with Liverpool's poor results of late and the accompanying relative goal drought and inability to put the ball in the net, it was time for the team to turn on the style and score as many as they could.

Chris

The idea of football is to score goals, leagues are sometimes won or lost on goal difference, just look at 1989 when Liverpool would have won the league if they had scored a single goal more in any of their league games that season, we beat Luton 5-0 if we'd beat them 6-0 we would have won the league.

The same thing could be true of this seasons CL group stage.

That's why you should never take your foot off the gas when you are ahead in the score.

If wins like that keep happening then qualification onto the CL should be re-assessed and made tighter. There should be no 8-0 wins in that league. It is supposed to be the best in Europe, and the best don't get beat 8-0.

There have always been those kind of scores in Europe, it's got nothing to do with qualification.

Waterways, those results seem to prove that teams went for it without holding back.

Chris, I can see the reasoning about wanting to finish possibly 2nd in your group to avoid playing a pre-determined team in another group, however, I would not wish my team to start passing backwards to avoid humiliating their opponents.

When Glen Keeley got sent off whilst on loan in the Derby, I don't remember LFC holding back feeling sorry for us.

Remember LFC beating Oulu palerseos or someone of Finland 11-0 in the EC.

I agree with Scousemouse on this one that goal difference, especially in the league matters - one off cup knockouts of course, not at all but I can remember some teams being 2 or 3 up and still getting beat (Spurs v Man Utd - and AC MIlan v LFC not that long ago) so you can never feel safe.

Chris, I can see the reasoning about wanting to finish possibly 2nd in your group to avoid playing a pre-determined team in another group, however, I would not wish my team to start passing backwards to avoid humiliating their opponents.


Hi Ged,

I'm not excusing it and I am not really for it. I am just giving reasons why some managers might want their players to take their foot off the gas and not go for a goal rout.

Chris

.

Remember LFC beating Oulu palerseos or someone of Finland 11-0 in the EC.



In their first European Cup match, against Reykjavik of Iceland in the 1964-1965 season, the Reds achieved an 11-1 aggregate victory in September 1964.

Chris

Waterways, those results seem to prove that teams went for it without holding back.

Chris, I can see the reasoning about wanting to finish possibly 2nd in your group to avoid playing a pre-determined team in another group, however, I would not wish my team to start passing backwards to avoid humiliating their opponents.

When Glen Keeley got sent off whilst on loan in the Derby, I don't remember LFC holding back feeling sorry for us.

Remember LFC beating Oulu palerseos or someone of Finland 11-0 in the EC.

I agree with Scousemouse on this one that goal difference, especially in the league matters - one off cup knockouts of course, not at all but I can remember some teams being 2 or 3 up and still getting beat (Spurs v Man Utd - and AC MIlan v LFC not that long ago) so you can never feel safe.


Ged i think we beat Oulu 10-1 at home in 1980.

Ged i think we beat Oulu 10-1 at home in 1980.

That's right, we played the poor b#ggers again the season after and beat them 7-0 that time.

It was Stromgodset that we wellied 11-0.

I remember us beating Fulham 10:0 in 1986 (in the League Cup I think). Steve McMahon scored 4 and missed a penalty :)

I remember us beating Fulham 10:0 in 1986 (in the League Cup I think). Steve McMahon scored 4 and missed a penalty :)

i'm sure Rush had one disallowed in that one as well. For the away leg Fulham put a picture of a praying Diego Maradona on the programme cover.

Here's the draw in the Champions League:

Match 1 Celtic v Barcelona
Match 2 Lyon v Man Utd
Match 3 Schalke 04 v FC Porto
Match 4 Liverpool v Inter
Match 5 Roma v Real Madrid
Match 6 Arsenal v Milan
Match 7 Olympiacos v Chelsea
Match 8 Fenerbahce v Sevilla

Its Internazionale (to give them their proper title) for the Reds next. Hopefully a long overdue revenge for the 1964-5 defeat where the referee was bunged.

Yes, one of the goals was scored direct from an indirect free kick. I don't think there was anything wrong with the goal that was kicked whilst Tommy Lawrence bounced it though.

A similar scenario occured in 1971-72. Borussia Monchengladbach played Inter and annihilated them 7:1 with Gunter Netzer in imperious form. Boninsegna was hit in the throat with a can (hurled by a Monchengladbach fan) and the talk was that he was feigning injury. The result was rendered void and had to be replayed in Berlin but the score was 0:0 and Inter went through. A neutral remarked that from that day on he realised that an Italian on the floor was more dangerous than one standing up :)

Its Internazionale (to give them their proper title) for the Reds next. Hopefully a long overdue revenge for the 1964-5 defeat where the referee was bunged.


Gawd - and yous call us bitter ha ha, even the Clive Thomas one was way back in 77. Looks like it's winnable this, could have been worse. If the ref was bunged, he should've tried exlax, always worked for my arl mam.

Gawd - and yous call us bitter ha ha, even the Clive Thomas one was way back in 77. Looks like it's winnable this, could have been worse. If the ref was bunged, he should've tried exlax, always worked for my arl mam.

Ged, I know an Evertonian who blames Hitlers invasion of Poland on the break up of Evertons 1939 title winning side and failure to win the league again till 1963.

And don't forget we were the last winners before WWI too - bloody Franz Ferdinand, why couldn't he have been in another place that day :rolleyes:

And don't forget we were the last winners before WWI too - bloody Franz Ferdinand, why couldn't he have been in another place that day :rolleyes:

Next time Everton win the league I'm getting into a nuclear bunker!

Yes, one of the goals was scored direct from an indirect free kick. I don't think there was anything wrong with the goal that was kicked whilst Tommy Lawrence bounced it though.

A similar scenario occured in 1971-72. Borussia Monchengladbach played Inter and annihilated them 7:1 with Gunter Netzer in imperious form. Boninsegna was hit in the throat with a can (hurled by a Monchengladbach fan) and the talk was that he was feigning injury. The result was rendered void and had to be replayed in Berlin but the score was 0:0 and Inter went through. A neutral remarked that from that day on he realised that an Italian on the floor was more dangerous than one standing up :)

There was some play-acting in the Liverpool - Inter Milan match in the 1964-1965 semi-final of the European Cup with an Inter player going down as if poleaxed by Ron Yeats. If Rowdy Yeats had really hit him he wouldn't have got up afterward. :thumbsup: Though we won 3-1 at Anfield, with goals by Hunt, Callaghan, and St. John, we lost 3-0 in Milan for them to go through to the final. :(

Chris

Chris