Rampage again

[GeorgePorgie]

When are these d i c k s in power gonna learn...get the ruddy water cannons out on em...and then when they're wet all through they will disperse a lot faster than they gathered.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14434117

I swear this gov deliberatly let them run riot on the streets instead of resolving it before it gets out of hand.

[Oudeis]

All is quiet down here three miles south of the 'to-do'.

[grekko]

When are these d i c k s in power gonna learn...get the ruddy water cannons out on em...and then when they're wet all through they will disperse a lot faster than they gathered.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14434117

I swear this gov deliberatly let them run riot on the streets instead of resolving it before it gets out of hand.

Whatever could you be suggesting...... hidden agenda? never,..... as if those nice tory gents down Whitehall way would ever think of anything so underhand.......... I'm ashamed to think any Briton could harbour such anti-establishment thoughts!shocking, absolutely shocking, disgraceful caddish ideas.

[Ged]

If you look at the link and those to the right of it, one eye witness says Mark Duggan had a gun so who knows why the police shot him. Perhaps if having a gun carried a mandatory sentence of 15 years minimum, these people wouldn't be so casual in carrying them. I'd double that sentence if the gun was used, whether anyone was killed or not.

[Oudeis]

Oops, forgot to mention...

http://www.jis.gov.jm/special_sections/Independence/symbols.html

[Savo]

It's allowed to go on as there is a hidden agenda,remember toccy riots,police were told by thathchers thugs to disengage,and allow the use and sale of drugs,there reasons simple to quote several police officers at the time "if there drugged up they wont fight,and we can control them" cheap heroin was thatchers answer to unemployment,people you need to get the dvd called Zeightgeist and watch it,it's 2 hrs long but maybee a lot of truth,funny how the P.M. hasnt said a thing? he loves being on telly.
And what is coming down in the name of National Security is truly unnerving.

[grekko]

If you look at the link and those to the right of it, one eye witness says Mark Duggan had a gun so who knows why the police shot him. Perhaps if having a gun carried a mandatory sentence of 15 years minimum, these people wouldn't be so casual in carrying them. I'd double that sentence if the gun was used, whether anyone was killed or not.

If gun crime was ever to impact upon those from the establishment you could be sure severe long term sentencing would be introduced but, whilst it is seen by our betters as only problematical amongst the lower orders, i.e. Us, it will never be considered a prudent use of government(?) finances.

[Ged]

Replace Cameron and Clegg with Savo and Grekko I say :002:

Eh, sounds better than harpo and groucho ;)

[johnny blue]

[B]A non Police firearm was found on the rear seat of the taxi, one of the Police arrest team radio was found to have a bullet lodged into it, in the meantime the demonstrators have caused the loss of both jobs and homes to those decent people of the community.

[Marty1]

The crowd of uncivilised thugs that caused the destruction last night need to be locked up for a long time. The Police should have taken a harder line much earlier, but no doubt thought a softer approach would be a better option. The idea that there is a hidden agenda begs the question, what is this hidden agenda ? To me this got out of hand after a peaceful protest and escalated as it can do.

[chasevans]

[B]A non Police firearm was found on the rear seat of the taxi, one of the Police arrest team radio was found to have a bullet lodged into it, in the meantime the demonstrators have caused the loss of both jobs and homes to those decent people of the community.

A good point, Johnny Blue.:handclap:
Chas:PDT11

[Lyns]

[B]A non Police firearm was found on the rear seat of the taxi, one of the Police arrest team radio was found to have a bullet lodged into it, in the meantime the demonstrators have caused the loss of both jobs and homes to those decent people of the community.

Reports say a gun was fired and the bullet hit a police radio, only then did the police open fire.
Duggan's 'friend' said Duggan was a nice guy just depressed about the loss of another friend a few months ago. Yeah right. Thats why he carried a gun and armed police were after him .

To paraphrase ~ Live by the gun die by the gun

Looting houses and shops ISNT about rioting over police action. Its about scum thieving and destroying businesses and homes.

[grekko]

A good point, Johnny Blue.:handclap:
Chas:PDT11
Now there would have been questions had a police firearm been found on the rear seat of the taxi , wouldn't there:question:

[Marty1]

I think it better to let the investigation take it's course rather that create something out of nothing. If it is proved that the man who was shot dead had fired at the police earlier, then he got what he deserved !

[grekko]

I think it better to let the investigation take it's course rather that create something out of nothing. If it is proved that the man who was shot dead had fired at the police earlier, then he got what he deserved !

True but anyone carrying an unlicenced handgun.... virtually everyone, shouldn't be surprised if "accidents" happen and I wouldn't have much sympathy for the victim even though the rule of law and it's application should apply to all.

[az_gila]

True but anyone carrying an unlicenced handgun.... virtually everyone, shouldn't be surprised if "accidents" happen and I wouldn't have much sympathy for the victim even though the rule of law and it's application should apply to all.

It's not carrying it that is bad, its bad (err totally stupid) to fire it at a cop who has a Heckler & Koch MP5 carbine in his hands.

22444

[Savo]

Please dont think I condone either the carrying of guns or the stupid people who rioted just to destroy shops,houses etc,
it's a shame that a peacefull protest was hijaked, I agree with Lyns, To paraphrase ~ Live by the gun die by the gun.
sadly we now live in an age were life,property and values are cheap,but I do question why it was allowed to escelate with little containment by a police force that has a duty of care to citizens,have we as people now no value or is there a bigger picture,will we now loose more of our civil libertys due to these and recent actions,wish we could have the same values we had in 60's and 70's,none of us know exact details of thursday night,but there should be much stronger penaltys for gun crime,regardless if its using or just carrying a gun,mandatory 25 yrs jail.asbos were a joke the kids seen it as earning there stripes,the youth today seem to grow up with less values than were instilled in us,we need our civil libertys,but we also have a right to protection,were do we find the ballance.

[Marty1]

I think to be fair, there was no intelligence to indicate that a major riot was about or indeed would happen. A riot can start and escalate very quickly, with todays communications, mobiles ect, people become very aware of local situations and the thugs move in and loot, burn and riot, the reaction of the police then becomes containment and then they are often on the back foot to a certain extent. I only wish we had the same values as we had in the 60s but we are where we are and I see no way back to them sadly.

[Lyns]

There are reports of trouble in Enfield now.

Yes Marty I agree communications are so much easier now which enables the thugs to gather together.
The police said the demo was peaceful to begin with until it was hijacked by troublemakers.

[Marty1]

I've seen many riots start very quickly and once they do it takes time to gain control of them, as much as you can do.

We now have the experts giving their views ! One is, that blacks are excluded from mainstreem of society. I'm not a lover of experts they can create more problems that they solve.

[grekko]

I've seen many riots start very quickly and once they do it takes time to gain control of them, as much as you can do.

We now have the experts giving their views ! One is, that blacks are excluded from mainstreem of society. I'm not a lover of experts they can create more problems that they solve.
Two is: ....................?
Three is: .....................?
Four is: .....................?
etc.........................................

[az_gila]

I would put a lot of it down to class as well as race.

Having worked with a lot of good black engineers, perhaps the problem ones are only out of the mainstream because of local class culture around them not liking education?

[Marty1]

Two is: ....................?
Three is: .....................?
Four is: .....................?
etc........................................

How should I know, ask an expert ! There seems to be lot's of them about.

[Ged]

Blacks probably are overlooked a lot of the time and they shouldn't be if they are as good for the job as anyone else, however that doesn't provide an excuse or a reason to carry guns.

[Marty1]

Blacks probably are overlooked a lot of the time and they shouldn't be if they are as good for the job as anyone else

Well they shouldn't be, you're right Ged, we have laws against descrimination !

[wsteve55]

According to several (black)local's,speaking on the new's,many of the so-called rioters, were unfamiliar to the area! They thought the peaceful protest, had been used as an excuse to loot,etc,though none knew if there was any other political motive,involved? I spotted more than a few white hoodies,in the crowds,so race is maybe, not such an issue here?

[lenka]

This page will automatically update every 90 seconds

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8687177/Tottenham-riot-live.html


BREAKING On scene @ #Brixton. Large group of youths throwing bottles @ police. V v scary. All wearing scarfs. Its hit southless than a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® Favorite Retweet Reply

[Marty1]

According to several (black)local's,speaking on the new's,many of the so-called rioters, were unfamiliar to the area! They thought the peaceful protest, had been used as an excuse to loot,etc,though none knew if there was any other political motive,involved? I spotted more than a few white hoodies,in the crowds,so race is maybe, not such an issue here?

When it comes to looting Race is not an issue !

[essexscouse]

a work colleague lives in tottenham he said he saw people arriving in taxis then putting up hoodies they were holding baseball bats etc he was with his girlfriend in the high road but left at about 8.20 as he rightly suspected it was gonn kick off......the high road is trashed..............every bank and build soc cash machines ripped out........post office trashed...every phone shop looted.Spurs ticket office trashed.they put graffitti paint on the stadium wall dont touch the ground.................opposite the ground there is a KFC type shop
and they spray paint on the shop next door dont touch the chicken..amazingly neither was touched.they have moved onto enfield tonight it is about 5 miles away but is a little old high street with all the big names but a little market square in the middle have heard there has been some shops trashed and a car and van torched just hope it not so bad....................Phil Harris owner of Carpetright which was torched said he will help people who had flats above his shop as they have lost everything......................he wont lose any sleep over the shop going as it was destined to shut anyway

[wsteve55]

When it comes to looting Race is not an issue !

As I was suggesting!

[az_gila]

When it comes to looting Race is not an issue !

It was in the LA Riots - we stayed house bound for three days and got those days off work - paid even...:)

[grekko]

How should I know, ask an expert ! There seems to be lot's of them about.
Marty, the reason I posed the questions was because you said experts were giving their views but you'd only quoted one view.

[Marty1]

Marty, the reason I posed the questions was because you said experts were giving their views but you'd only quoted one view.

I know, I said "one is" and gave the quote. :022:

---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

Just for you grekko ! Some other expert views:


1. depravation
2. unequal stop and search
3. unemployment
4. poverty
5. the cuts
6. lack of communication

I'm sure there are more, I put in down to thugs !

[chasevans]

:202 (1):

:handclap:
Chas

[Ged]

Deprivation, unemployment and for some the fact there is no hope while they see film stars, footballers, bankers, utility CEO's and politicians making obscene amounts must be a lot to stomach resulting in the mentality of well what can they do to me. Prisons are full, it'll be a slapped wrist so worth the risk. There is a poem in there for your somewhere Oudeis.

However, i'm sure when a lot of us on here were youngsters we had next to nothing to pass our time but did we riot!

[Marty1]

Exactly Ged ! No TV, Computer, Inside bog, Carpets, Central Heating, Microwave, Car, Bathroom, Christ, when I think about it we had bugger all. We did have discipline and respect for others, but then look at our parents, their type doesn't exist anymore and we suffer because of it !

[Ged]

They get a lot of those things you list if sent to prison nowadays don't they, oops no, forgotten the gym and pool table ;) maybe some would feel better off inside, again, the little risk factor.

I think now that some people have had the riches and then had it taken back away from them, that is somewhat worse than never having had them in the first place. A lot of people live beyond their means these days to keep up with the Jones' in a very materialistic world. That's why the bankers found it so easy to lend huge more amounts than ever could be afforded when it was payback time.

[wsteve55]

They get a lot of those things you list if sent to prison nowadays don't they, oops no, forgotten the gym and pool table ;) maybe some would feel better off inside, again, the little risk factor.

I think now that some people have had the riches and then had it taken back away from them, that is somewhat worse than never having had them in the first place. A lot of people live beyond their means these days to keep up with the Jones' in a very materialistic world. That's why the bankers found it so easy to lend huge more amounts than ever could be afforded when it was payback time.

As even the mighty U.S.A. is finding out!:nod:

[grekko]

I've seen many riots start very quickly and once they do it takes time to gain control of them, as much as you can do.

We now have the experts giving their views ! One is, that blacks are excluded from mainstreem of society. I'm not a lover of experts they can create more problems that they solve.

As you do not seem to have grasped what I was pointing out I'll try once again to show you.
You brought up the old bogey of "race" by isolating it from other possible "expert" views .
And later you were claiming
"When it comes to looting Race is not an issue ! "
I do not disagree with with the last statement , I was trying to point out that you introduced the "race" view singularly without giving reason for that isolation.

[Marty1]

God, you're wearing me down ! The only reason for my quote was simply because this expert was on the TV at the same time I was on here, so I posted it. It was an experts view, as I said, not mine. I have since posted, just for you grekko, a further list that does not include race.

If I haven't explained myself, please feel free to post again ! :RAP_1:

[grekko]

God, you're wearing me down ! The only reason for my quote was simply because this expert was on the TV at the same time I was on here, so I posted it. It was an experts view, as I said, not mine. I have since posted, just for you grekko, a further list that does not include race.

If I haven't explained myself, please feel free to post again ! :RAP_1:

I'll leave it, you obviously did not edit ?

[Marty1]

I'll leave it, you obviously did not edit ?

I think so, I fail to understand what you don't understand !:beer:

[grekko]

I think so, I fail to understand what you don't understand !:beer::PDT_Aliboronz_24:
drink and be merry Mart.

[Prefrab]

Listening to so called experts on TV and Radio social deprivation, unemployment, poor education etc etc iare being given as a reason for this lawlessness, not one has said that it is just opportunist theft and vandelism. Lets see if everyone arrested is from a "deprived background" or just a criminal no matter what their background.

[az_gila]

Listening to so called experts on TV and Radio social deprivation, unemployment, poor education etc etc iare being given as a reason for this lawlessness, not one has said that it is just opportunist theft and vandelism. Lets see if everyone arrested is from a "deprived background" or just a criminal no matter what their background.

Perhaps the question is "does your background excuse a crime?"

I vote NO.

[John Doh]

I just love the way so many people in every case like this jump to conclusions, particularly where the Met is involved. With any luck in not so many days in the not-too-distant future, it will almost certainly be shown that [a] Mark Duggan was NOT a gangster, that no bullets were fired, except by the police, that [c] there was a serious misjudgment in the way the police failed to respond to Duggan's family's requests for information on his death, that [d] most of the areas where violence has broken out have suffered seriously from Youth Centre closures in recent months or where community leaders have lost their jobs...

Before we all start writing off the riots as the product of [B]mindless thuggery, it might be worth considering whether the involvement of at least some of those who are rioting in these relatively deprived areas of London - which is, after all, a well-established English tradition - was borne out of a mindful awareness of how the police do still throw their weight about with regard to stop-and-search, despite ethnic awareness training, etc., etc.... and are maybe not quite so gullible as some members of this forum...

It won't be in the tabloids - you'll have to watch Channel 4 News or Newsnight, or one of those other minority channels that have the licence to dissent. Some of us won't need to seek out such coverage, though - we still recall the original events of 1985 with Cynthia Jarrett at Broadwater Farm, the Stephen Lawrence case, Charles de Menezes, Ian Tomlinson, etc., etc., to know that the Met automatically make up stories when they're in a tight spot...

All I can say is, it's a good job that Merseyside Police really have improved out of all recognition since our own riots - so we're not likely to have any repetition here... are we?!?!

Oh, and before anyone starts accusing me of trying to justify looting and violence, may I say that I'm not; of course some will climb on the bandwagon, as they did in Toxteth, but this was not the original source of the conflict. I am however offering an explanation for events that seem fairly obvious to me but somewhat puzzling to others.

[grekko]

I wonder if tomorrows comments will be interesting?

[wsteve55]

As it seems to be spreading across the country,I'm wondering if it will kick off,here???

[Gerard Fleming]

11.55pm..


Just had word from a friend theres trouble on Lodge Lane.

nothing serious I hope, if anything at all.


Gerard.

[Marty1]

I have the feeling that this may spread to other areas outside London, this has nothing to do with deprived areas, just thugs on the rampage !

[Gerard Fleming]

00.10...


Lots of Matrix and sirens... around Lodge Lane..


Supposedly ....
I dont know how true this is...

Gerard

[grekko]

I have the feeling that this may spread to other areas outside London, this has nothing to do with deprived areas, just thugs on the rampage !
That's good to know, arrest all the thugs and there won't be any trouble in deprived areas . Brilliant!

[wsteve55]

I have the feeling that this may spread to other areas outside London, this has nothing to do with deprived areas, just thugs on the rampage !

It already has....Birmingham has been mentioned on the news!

[robbo176]

someone said KFC in Edge lane was set on fire & trouble in Smithdown Rd....don't know if its just rumours ......why **** on your own door step !!!:PDT_Xtremez_12:

[gorgeous]

police helicopter out now .
Smithdown / Lodge la ...

[grekko]

Thank god there's no trouble in the deprived areas.

[wsteve55]

I'm just waiting for the news!!!! The police helicopter, usually fly's over this way,but I think it's based in Cheshire now!

---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------

Upper Parliament st,Smithdown rd,Lawrence rd,and a couple of other places,have all had "incidents" reported,tonight!

[ChrisGeorge]

00.45 Cars torched in Grove Street, Toxteth according to ITN (on Daily Telegraph live updates site (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8687177/London-riots-live.html))

[GeorgePorgie]

Hows that quote go now?....."What Monkey Sees,Monkey Does"

[wsteve55]

Lodge lane is closed,both ways,due to an incident!

[robbo176]

WTF do the morons think they are going to achieve...if we're lucky we might get another garden festival !!!!!:gnasher::PDT_Xtremez_12:

---------- Post added at 01:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------

1.31 am: crowds attack Baa bar Myrtle street :PDT_Xtremez_12:

[GeorgePorgie]

1.31 am: crowds attack Baa bar Myrtle street


thats is just pathetic....what has the elephant done to deserve that? :)

[az_gila]

I just love the way so many people in every case like this jump to conclusions, particularly where the Met is involved. With any luck in not so many days in the not-too-distant future, it will almost certainly be shown that [a] Mark Duggan was NOT a gangster, that [b] no bullets were fired, except by the police, that [c] there was a serious misjudgment in the way the police failed to respond to Duggan's family's requests for information on his death, that [d] most of the areas where violence has broken out have suffered seriously from Youth Centre closures in recent months or where community leaders have lost their jobs...

.....

Point taken.

But I'm not sure about [a] if these sources are correct - you can't hide from Facebook....

But Duggan's Facebook page, under his alias Starrish Mark, pictures him in a T-shirt bearing the words Star Gang, and reports suggest he may have had links to that group and allied north London gangs such as the Broadwater Farm Posse and Tottenham Mandem.

The Voice, Britain's leading black newspaper, has claimed that both Duggan and his best friend, 23-year-old rapper Kelvin Easton, known as Smegz, "had links to the Star Gang", one of several criminal groups in north London whose turf wars have caused at least three deaths over the past few years.

[b] ...is now appearing to be correct - with really stupid police tactics on which way a weapon is pointed when other cops are around.

[c] True, I think they are now admitting that

[d] No excuse - demonstrations are one thing, riots are another. Just like the Los Angeles riots, there is no shop looting for food or diapers - booze, fancy shoes and electronics seem to be the stuff taken, and then destroy the evidence by burning the place down. Next you will say they are setting cars on fire to stay warm...:) They are plain old crinimal acts.

As far as police acts, I do remember the legal immigrant that got 6 bullets to the back of his head on a London tube carriage... and the misinformation after that event.

PS Got a meeting today with our local police community affairs officer. Our town has a relative excess of police officers and we like it that way...:) The bad guys tend to go to the less policed areas nearby.
http://www.orovalleyaz.gov/Town_Government/Police_Department.htm

[wsteve55]

Anyone heard the latest news?

[Ged]

What, have Everton bought someone Steve? :rolleyes:

[Lyns]

I just love the way so many people in every case like this jump to conclusions, particularly where the Met is involved. With any luck in not so many days in the not-too-distant future, it will almost certainly be shown that [a] Mark Duggan was NOT a gangster, that [b] no bullets were fired, except by the police, that [c] there was a serious misjudgment in the way the police failed to respond to Duggan's family's requests for information on his death, that [d] most of the areas where violence has broken out have suffered seriously from Youth Centre closures in recent months or where community leaders have lost their jobs...

.

Can you please explain the words 'with any luck...'

[grekko]

Anyone heard the latest news?

You don't mean Cameron saying he's going to smack all their arses for being naughty boys and send them to bed with no tea, do you?
The man talks so much s*i*e , but then again Chipping Norton has major problems also...:disgust:

[chasevans]

I just love the way so many people in every case like this jump to conclusions, particularly where the Met is involved.

Before we all start writing off the riots as the product of mindless thuggery, it might be worth considering whether the involvement of at least some of those who are rioting in these relatively deprived areas of London - which is, after all, a well-established English tradition - was borne out of a mindful awareness of how the police do still throw their weight about with regard to stop-and-search, despite ethnic awareness training, etc., etc.... and are maybe not quite so gullible as some members of this forum...

It won't be in the tabloids - you'll have to watch Channel 4 News or Newsnight, or one of those other minority channels that have the licence to dissent. Some of us won't need to seek out such coverage, though - we still recall the original events of 1985 with Cynthia Jarrett at Broadwater Farm, the Stephen Lawrence case, Charles de Menezes, Ian Tomlinson, etc., etc., to know that the Met automatically make up stories when they're in a tight spot...

All I can say is, it's a good job that Merseyside Police really have improved out of all recognition since our own riots - so we're not likely to have any repetition here... are we?!?!

Oh, and before anyone starts accusing me of trying to justify looting and violence, may I say that I'm not; of course some will climb on the bandwagon, as they did in Toxteth, but this was not the original source of the conflict. I am however offering an explanation for events that seem fairly obvious to me but somewhat puzzling to others.
I'm puzzled by your views. Rioting is a well established English tradition! Well tell that to the shopkeepers and staff who've lost their livelihood to the thieves. If they had problems with the police the community should have brought it up with their local MP. That is a WEET. Diane Abbot was on BBC TV this morning and even she seemed stunned by the rioters, offering none of your left wing excuses.
a ,b, c, d have been answered by Az-gila, I'll wait until I know more, I don't jump to any conclusions.
Your next paragraph muddles the thread. It's the August 2011 riots that we're talking about.
All I can say is, it's a good job that Merseyside Police really have improved out of all recognition since our own riots - so we're not likely to have any repetition here... are we?!?!
Merseyside police do a good job overall. I've been in trouble with the police, been a witness for and against the police, but have been thankful to the police many times. :PDT11

I lived in Toxteth at the time of the first riots. I drank in Black Georges(RIP) Windsor Clock in Windsor street. There were rumors the night before the riots started of new white youths in the area. A friend was told to get his car off the street for safety. He thought it was a joke but the next night his mini car was turned over and set on fire during the riots. It was reported as started by left wing agitators, older black men said it was young "bucks" and condemned the rioters.
I can see you sitting in front of your telly urging the criminals on. Where were you when the Toxteth riots began? What's traditional about riots?

I'm white,working class and English, appalled by your left wing simplicity, John Doh .

:013:
Chas

[Ged]

An example of the morons doing this. All for personal gain.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065

[Spike]

Everton supporters are refusing to travel to the game at Tottenham this Saturday due to the riots.

They say all the good stuff is gone :rolleyes:

[grekko]

An example of the morons doing this. All for personal gain.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065

Ged, I understand your disgust but calling sh*t like that morons unfairly brackets all low intelligence people as their peers, just sh*t would have been good enough for such low life.

[chasevans]

Sociopaths, feral, words fail me.
Cheers Ged,
Chas:PDT11

[GeorgePorgie]

An example of the morons doing this. All for personal gain.

Terrible as it may seem,but this is no different than what was happening centuries before ie stealing and pick pocketing...just the ways of modern day thief I'm afraid.

[Marty1]

Thank god there's no trouble in the deprived areas.

Open your eyes grekko, there is bother everywhere, as I said, it's not about deprived areas in my opinion, just rag-arses looting and destroying peoples lives. I would like to hear your opinion rather that smart arse comments !

[grekko]

Open your eyes grekko, there is bother everywhere, as I said, it's not about deprived areas in my opinion, just rag-arses looting and destroying peoples lives. I would like to hear your opinion rather that smart arse comments !
My sarcasm was directed at your comment which was of such certainty not supposition :
Quote Originally Posted by Marty1 View Post
I have the feeling that this may spread to other areas outside London, this has nothing to do with deprived areas, just thugs on the rampage !

If you produce evidence to back it up I'll apologise.

[Marty1]

I would have thought that the fact that this trouble has spread all over London and to other areas would indicate that it is not just deprived areas that are being trashed. I don't think those who live in less deprived areas have any more respect for the Law. I see on the TV kids looting, and destroying property, I can't believe they're doing such damage with any though to their own circumstances, it's fun, a bit of excitement. this is all an opinion of course to which we are all entitled. What's your take on it all ?

[Spike]

I feel a riot coming on YO :ninja:

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Marty,

I agree. It's just an excuse to cause mayhem and nick as much stuff as they can.

Chris

[grekko]

:
Mr Cameron said at least 450 people have been arrested so far, in what he condemned as "sickening scenes of people looting, vandalising, thieving, robbing".

Cameron our great statesman then spoke very sternly,

He told rioters: "You will feel the full force of the law. And if you are old enough to commit these crimes, you are old enough to face the punishment."

Oh yeah, with the cuts his government are making via the Ministry of Justice, what punishment?
Why can't we fund the institutions which are neccessary to run a reasonably safe state. Make the vandals be seen repaying society for their destructive actions with UNPAID constructive repair work in the areas they violated and those with "previous" incarcerated and allowed out under supervision to do this work . Also the killer of the young man, when caught , tried and convicted should be given a sentence which is seen by all to be a severe deterrent.

[GeorgePorgie]

What we do here is....those that are convicted of destruction and looting and are in receipt of benefits or parents in receipt of benefits is to take out x amount monies from their benefits to pay for the damage and theft they caused.

[grekko]

What we do here is....those that are convicted of destruction and looting and are in receipt of benefits or parents in receipt of benefits is to take out x amount monies from their benefits to pay for the damage and theft they caused.

Exactly, and that's punishment?
Come on Cameron grow a backbone.

[Ged]

I know it goes against the grain but leaving them nothing to live on will only give them a reason to steal more. Stick them in jail and let them by happy on one meal a day and in a cell for 23 hours a day. If that doesn't please them too much, maybe they'll stay out of trouble next time.

[Marty1]

Bring back the Birch ! That will calm them down a bit.

[GeorgePorgie]

I know it goes against the grain but leaving them nothing to live on will only give them a reason to steal more. Stick them in jail and let them by happy on one meal a day and in a cell for 23 hours a day. If that doesn't please them too much, maybe they'll stay out of trouble next time.

Did you think that answer through,Gedro?

Putting them in jail does not work and if we did put them in jail then we gain nothing ie joe bloggs is paying taxes to keep them there.

Take it out of their benefit to pay for the damage this means we save on joe bloggs paying taxes to keep them in the nick and lets face it if they got a social fund loan they still have to have x amount of money taken out of the benefit each fortnight,

[grekko]

Well we can be assured that young offenders are being rehabilitated..... some hope, I've been reading a Department of Justice consultation paper and this caught my eye:

19. As a consequence, youth custody today is certainly safer now than previously and the frequency of reoffending rate for young people leaving custody is continuously falling. Yet, despite this progress, it is unacceptable that the reoffending rate for children and young people leaving custody remains high at 71.9%

Seven out of 10 reoffend, .... continuously falling? Pardon?

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

GP, you're not alone in asking for water cannon, crossparty support:
As the British capital witnessed the third night of spreading violence and the evident loss of police control over several parts of London, May said that officers would be allowed to use water cannons.

The decision was soon backed by Former London mayor Ken Livingstone, who believes that police must be allowed to use 'the weapon' to disperse protesters. Livingstone said, “The issue of water cannon would be very useful given the level of arson we are seeing here.”

The riot-control weapon that shoots a high-pressure stream of water was employed to control mass protests in Northern Ireland.

May also insisted that in case the police fail to regain control of London streets, the government will consider the option of deploying military forces throughout the city.

Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP and former Army officer, asked the Home Secretary to use water cannons to control the violence that has spread across the capital.

“I find it strange that we are willing to use this sort of measures against the Irish yet when Englishmen step out of line and behave in this atrocious and appalling way, we are happy to mollycoddle them,” said Mercer.

“If the police want cannon then they should be allowed to use them. I have used water cannon myself and I found them extremely effective,” he said.

Several other figures also urged the Home Office to apply the so-called anti-riot weapon, claiming that in some cases cannon use was necessary.

[Ged]

Did you think that answer through,Gedro?

Putting them in jail does not work and if we did put them in jail then we gain nothing ie joe bloggs is paying taxes to keep them there.

Take it out of their benefit to pay for the damage this means we save on joe bloggs paying taxes to keep them in the nick and lets face it if they got a social fund loan they still have to have x amount of money taken out of the benefit each fortnight,

I did think it through Georgieboy.

If they have £60 a week to live on now and can't, I don't see how living on less won't make them just say eff this for a laugh, there is no risk now to me doing whatever I want, what more can I lose. Personally, I don't see how all this keeping them in jail costs £130,000 a year sh1te they come out with. Put them in a fooking cell and push some porridge under the door once a day and have done with it.If they don't make a noise or give any hassle, even supply them with bog paper. Disrespect others and lose your civil rights is how it should be.

[grekko]

I did think it through Georgieboy.

If they have £60 a week to live on now and can't, I don't see how living on less won't make them just say eff this for a laugh, there is no risk now to me doing whatever I want, what more can I lose. Personally, I don't see how all this keeping them in jail costs £130,000 a year sh1te they come out with. Put them in a fooking cell and push some porridge under the door once a day and have done with it.If they don't make a noise or give any hassle, even supply them with bog paper. Disrespect others and lose your civil rights is how it should be.



---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

[/COLOR]
I did think it through Georgieboy.

If they have £60 a week to live on now and can't, I don't see how living on less won't make them just say eff this for a laugh, there is no risk now to me doing whatever I want, what more can I lose. Personally, I don't see how all this keeping them in jail costs £130,000 a year sh1te they come out with. Put them in a fooking cell and push some porridge under the door once a day and have done with it.If they don't make a noise or give any hassle, even supply them with bog paper. Disrespect others and lose your civil rights is how it should be.

Did you go to Shepton Mallet "school" Ged?:slywink:
Maybe you're not old enough but sounds like you know , or knew of the place.

[Spike]

How do you know they are all on benefits? How do you know some are not working or from well off families?

[chasevans]

"People say all dem Toccy riots achieved notten!!!!!!!!!! .................................................. .................................................. .................................
PAUSE............................................. .................................................. .......................

I got a new overcoat, a color telly and a microwave uven fer me missus."

"Jackie Hamilton" RIP

[grekko]

"People say all dem Toccy riots achieved notten!!!!!!!!!! .................................................. .................................................. .................................
PAUSE............................................. .................................................. .......................

I got a new overcoat, a color telly and a microwave uven fer me missus."

"Jackie Hamilton" RIP

:lol:
Couldn't beat Jackie for getting to the point, what a guy ,sadly missed.

[chasevans]

:PDT11
Chas

[GeorgePorgie]

How do you know they are all on benefits? How do you know some are not working or from well off families?

Dear Sir/Madam

Please take time to read into the post rather glance over it....


What we do here is....those that are convicted of destruction and looting and are in receipt of benefits or parents in receipt of benefits is to take out x amount monies from their benefits to pay for the damage and theft they caused.

I also did not say all

Yours Truly
Mr GP

[az_gila]

Well we can be assured that young offenders are being rehabilitated..... some hope, I've been reading a Department of Justice consultation paper and this caught my eye:

19. As a consequence, youth custody today is certainly safer now than previously and the frequency of reoffending rate for young people leaving custody is continuously falling. Yet, despite this progress, it is unacceptable that the reoffending rate for children and young people leaving custody remains high at 71.9%

Seven out of 10 reoffend, .... continuously falling? Pardon?

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

GP, you're not alone in asking for water cannon, crossparty support:
As the British capital witnessed the third night of spreading violence and the evident loss of police control over several parts of London, May said that officers would be allowed to use water cannons.

The decision was soon backed by Former London mayor Ken Livingstone, who believes that police must be allowed to use 'the weapon' to disperse protesters. Livingstone said, “The issue of water cannon would be very useful given the level of arson we are seeing here.”

The riot-control weapon that shoots a high-pressure stream of water was employed to control mass protests in Northern Ireland.

May also insisted that in case the police fail to regain control of London streets, the government will consider the option of deploying military forces throughout the city.

Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP and former Army officer, asked the Home Secretary to use water cannons to control the violence that has spread across the capital.

“I find it strange that we are willing to use this sort of measures against the Irish yet when Englishmen step out of line and behave in this atrocious and appalling way, we are happy to mollycoddle them,” said Mercer.

“If the police want cannon then they should be allowed to use them. I have used water cannon myself and I found them extremely effective,” he said.

Several other figures also urged the Home Office to apply the so-called anti-riot weapon, claiming that in some cases cannon use was necessary.

Since the water cannon is a special weapon, not just a fire hose - Do the police have enough of them?

Reading the news over here it seems like part of the problem is how fast the mob moves around making it difficult for the police to mass forces against them.

Just two or three cops on the own against the mob would be a losing (fatal?) proposition for them.

[grekko]

Since the water cannon is a special weapon, not just a fire hose - Do the police have enough of them?

Reading the news over here it seems like part of the problem is how fast the mob moves around making it difficult for the police to mass forces against them.

Just two or three cops on the own against the mob would be a losing (fatal?) proposition for them.

I'm sure the experience gained in Northern Ireland against rioters, or whatever you wish to call them, can be brought into use here on the mainland.

[az_gila]

I'm sure the experience gained in Northern Ireland against rioters, or whatever you wish to call them, can be brought into use here on the mainland.

Yes... but do they have the equipment?

Or are we actually talking about bringing in the army?

The water cannon were mounted on the small amoured patrol cars IIRC.

[grekko]

Yes... but do they have the equipment?

Or are we actually talking about bringing in the army?

The water cannon were mounted on the small amoured patrol cars IIRC.

I would prefer the army was kept out of this but, if they are the only people trained to perform these operations then, under proper supervision(that could be debatable), so be it.Innocent peoples lives are being put at risk while the present situation continues.

[Spike]

Dear Sir/Madam

Please take time to read into the post rather glance over it....



I also did not say all

Yours Truly
Mr GP

Where did I say that YOU said it?

Please take time to read into the post rather glance over it....You will then notice that nowhere mentions yourself.

I thank Thee

[Marty1]

The police in Northern Ireland have water cannon, I'm sure they would be happy to lend some to our police forces ! I don't think the Army should be used for civil unrest unless, that is, the police become overstretched to a point where they can't cope with the problem. The police need to rethink their tactics and make better use of those they have.

[GeorgePorgie]

:)

22455

[GeorgePorgie]

Since the water cannon is a special weapon, not just a fire hose - Do the police have enough of them?

I would imagine they have,Az and then there's the "green godess",what we have to think about is dispersing the rioters quickly and efficiently and these cannons can be deployed far quicker than deploying a few thousand police onto the streets and containing the rioters.

[az_gila]

I would imagine they have,Az and then there's the "green godess",what we have to think about is dispersing the rioters quickly and efficiently and these cannons can be deployed far quicker than deploying a few thousand police onto the streets and containing the rioters.

I'm a bit dubious... if the police are that well equipped to deal with rioters you would think the equipment would be depoloyed by now, at least in London.

In the well armed US, our local SWAT team (a county-wide group with members from all towns) only has one armored vehicle, and that was military surplus.

For size reference, our county (Pima) has a population of 1 million.

Are the UK police hiding assets in some police parking lot and not using them?

[GeorgePorgie]

I'm a bit dubious... if the police are that well equipped to deal with rioters you would think the equipment would be depoloyed by now, at least in London.

Their use can only come from the home office and judging by that stupid cow Teresa May on what she is sayin is absolutly laughable....the first thing we need to do is ask for her resignation because she hasn't a clue.

[grekko]

Their use can only come from the home office and judging by that stupid cow Teresa May on what she is sayin is absolutly laughable....the first thing we need to do is ask for her resignation because she hasn't a clue.
Jeez, something seems to be going wrong here, I'm fully agreeing with GP again:PDT11

[Marty1]

She is not in operational command, if the police want to use it, I would imagine plod only has to ask !

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

A spokesman for the Metropolitan police said that all forces in England and Wales had been cleared by the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Home Office to use water cannon. No force had opted to deploy them so far, he added. If plod wants to use it he can !

[GeorgePorgie]

Chief Police Officers and the Home Office to use water cannon.

Exactly,it has to be a joint decision between the two above, BUT.... if the chief commisioners decline the use of the cannons the HO can overide this decision and force the CC to deploy it in extreme circumstances.

[Prefrab]

Just seen weather report for tomorrow heavy rain all day....who needs water cannons, mother nature will do the job:handclap:

[az_gila]

Their use can only come from the home office and judging by that stupid cow Teresa May on what she is sayin is absolutly laughable....the first thing we need to do is ask for her resignation because she hasn't a clue.

But my point was - Do they have enough of them? ....especially if they have never been operationally used before.

[chasevans]

Manchester police are stopping hoodies and scarf clad youths from entering the suspected meeting points of the rabble. :PDT11

[wsteve55]

Just seen weather report for tomorrow heavy rain all day....who needs water cannons, mother nature will do the job:handclap:

but not down south.....they're getting more rioting weather,warm and sunny!

Did anyone see the clip of the injured boy,with blood pouring from his nose(don't know how/why?)being aided by a couple of bystanders? They lifted his wallet,and walked off!

Also,in the "Echo" there were 2 pic's of the same(older)
guy,carrying a golf club! Does this mean he wasn't deprived?

[Stanier]

Anyone identify this looter?


http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29301_442976909814_310716489814_5773694_3162803_s. jpg

[wsteve55]

They pick things up,quite quickly!:unibrow:

[chasevans]

but not down south.....they're getting more rioting weather,warm and sunny!

Did anyone see the clip of the injured boy,with blood pouring from his nose(don't know how/why?)being aided by a couple of bystanders? They lifted his wallet,and walked off!

Also,in the "Echo" there were 2 pic's of the same(older)
guy,carrying a golf club! Does this mean he wasn't deprived?Ged pointed it out earlier. BBC website.
Chas:PDT11

---------- Post added at 10:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------


Anyone identify this looter?


http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29301_442976909814_310716489814_5773694_3162803_s. jpg
I think I spotted him, can't be shore.
Chas:handclap:

[grekko]

Anyone identify this looter?


http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29301_442976909814_310716489814_5773694_3162803_s. jpg
Was that in Birdmondsey

[hmtmaj]

Anyone identify this looter?


http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29301_442976909814_310716489814_5773694_3162803_s. jpg


Can't be 100% sure but is it Steven Segal ?

[ItsaZappathing]

Just had about 50 police here outside my house. A stolen car and a gang of hoodies was the reason.

[Marty1]

That's our Bird shopping !

[Savo]

no its george seagul outside the dole in notty ash lookin for a job,or is it officer dibbles stool pigeon for the riots:rolleyes:

[ItsaZappathing]

Just heard the North Face shop has gone and Liverpool 1 is being smashed up ? How true it is I don't know?

[Marty1]

Just heard the North Face shop has gone and Liverpool 1 is being smashed up ? How true it is I don't know?

Never worry Zap, after a while you get used to it !

[Max]

My mum was more annoyed(which in return annoyed me haha) at too many paranoid phonecalls worried about us than any riot. People over react sometimes and I didn't hear anything from my end of Wavertree.

[Marty1]

You may have been more annoyed if no one gave a **** !!

[Spike]

Theres a Riot in my biscuit tin.. some nutter called Rocky just hit Penguin with a Club tied him to a Wagon wheel with a blue ribbon - Police say Rocky was seen catching a Taxi to the Dam were he drank Bourbon and had it off with a Ginger Nut. Not a crumb of evidence has been found..Hhhmm so the Jammy Dodger got away!!

---------- Post added at 10:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 PM ----------

manchester police has just confirmed that so far the riots have caused thousends of pound worth of improvements!

[Stanier]

Theres a Riot in my biscuit tin.. some nutter called Rocky just hit Penguin with a Club tied him to a Wagon wheel with a blue ribbon - Police say Rocky was seen catching a Taxi to the Dam were he drank Bourbon and had it off with a Ginger Nut. Not a crumb of evidence has been found..Hhhmm so the Jammy Dodger got away!!

Now that takes the biscuit!

[John Doh]

I just love the way so many people in every case like this jump to conclusions, particularly where the Met is involved. With any luck in not so many days in the not-too-distant future, it will almost certainly be shown that [a] Mark Duggan was NOT a gangster, that no bullets were fired, except by the police, that [c] there was a serious misjudgment in the way the police failed to respond to Duggan's family's requests for information on his death, that [d] most of the areas where violence has broken out have suffered seriously from Youth Centre closures in recent months or where community leaders have lost their jobs...

Before we all start writing off the riots as the product of [B]mindless thuggery, it might be worth considering whether the involvement of at least some of those who are rioting in these relatively deprived areas of London - which is, after all, a well-established English tradition - was borne out of a mindful awareness of how the police do still throw their weight about with regard to stop-and-search, despite ethnic awareness training, etc., etc.... and are maybe not quite so gullible as some members of this forum...

It won't be in the tabloids - you'll have to watch Channel 4 News or Newsnight, or one of those other minority channels that have the licence to dissent. Some of us won't need to seek out such coverage, though - we still recall the original events of 1985 with Cynthia Jarrett at Broadwater Farm, the Stephen Lawrence case, Charles de Menezes, Ian Tomlinson, etc., etc., to know that the Met automatically make up stories when they're in a tight spot...

All I can say is, it's a good job that Merseyside Police really have improved out of all recognition since our own riots - so we're not likely to have any repetition here... are we?!?!

Oh, and before anyone starts accusing me of trying to justify looting and violence, may I say that I'm not; of course some will climb on the bandwagon, as they did in Toxteth, but this was not the original source of the conflict. I am however offering an explanation for events that seem fairly obvious to me but somewhat puzzling to others.

Excuse me if I bump this up again, but today's news seems to support my view of things vis-à-vis Mark Duggan...

I hate to say “I told you so!”

http://www.channel4.com/news/no-evidence-that-duggan-fired-at-police

[wsteve55]

But a loaded gun was found nearby,apparently! Shoot first,ask questions later??

[GeorgePorgie]

Excuse me if I bump this up again, but today's news seems to support my view of things vis-à-vis Mark Duggan...

Right, but does this mean that widespread rioting,looting and burning should play a role in cases like this? I think not.

Those who carry guns should expect the consequences of the worst senario.

[Savo]

Wow we have become amerika,bad boys,bad boys what ya gonna do,reality tv,grt chief con and P.M.,take your time show it all on tv,see its easy peasy to encourage the dickheads to loot,burn and own the streets,I use to see signs Police Slow,I didnt realise it was a mission statement.i am confused do the police not have mob phones also,poor excuse,use water canons and disperse the barstools,how come the media seem to get to flash points quicker than officer dibble? ahh well thats my 10 cents to quote amerikanisms,remember watch tv dont see whats goin on behind you

---------- Post added 08-10-2011 at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was 08-09-2011 at 11:52 PM ----------

BREAKING NEWS ON SKY P.M. now going to give full police powers to t.v. camera crews as there getting to riots faster than dibble,:ninja:

[John Doh]

Right, but does this mean that widespread rioting,looting and burning should play a role in cases like this? I think not.

Those who carry guns should expect the consequences of the worst senario.

My point is that if it had been handled properly in the first place... and if the police hadn't automatically started telling lies to cover their backs, none of this would have happened.

I'm NOT trying to justify 'widespread rioting, looting and burning' and I do recognise that for some people ANY excuse will do... but why play into their hands? There have now been so many examples of this kind of thing (see above) that you'd have thought the Met in particular would have learned by now...

[GeorgePorgie]

My point is

And my point is....

The riots flared up before the results of the inquiry where revealed,this meant the rioters would have still gone on the rampage if the lies where actually truth,maybe only a handfull that new duggan where angry about duggans death but the majority used his death to seek personal gain.

[John Doh]

Yes, you're right in a sense: another way of putting it is to say that the riots were fuelled by the inexcusable delay from the police in responding to the demands from the family and friends of Mr Duggan for an account of his death at their hands. The anger, understandably in my view, spread from them to others who had had, or knew of, similar experiences. One of the shocking things that has only just emerged this evening is that even the IPCC hadn't interviewed the cab driver until today. Bizarre!

[ChrisGeorge]

Yes, you're right in a sense: another way of putting it is to say that the riots were fuelled by the inexcusable delay from the police in responding to the demands from the family and friends of Mr Duggan for an account of his death at their hands. The anger, understandably in my view, spread from them to others who had had, or knew of, similar experiences. One of the shocking things that has only just emerged this evening is that even the IPCC hadn't interviewed the cab driver until today. Bizarre!

There's one part of your post that rings true... "inexcusable"... in two senses. These kids didn't need an excuse to go on a rampage, and yes they used the delay as a limp excuse for what they did.

I predict that the English football season is going to be delayed at least in London, Birmingham, Manchester, and Liverpool and perhaps elsewhere due to the disturbances. Maybe I am a prophet but the powers that be, Cameron and his pals, have a blinkered attitude if they are as they say "shocked" and "appalled" at what is happening. All of this could have been predicted. Maybe it comes from them all having gone to school together at Eton? :Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13

[liverpoolkid2]

heard on the news about two security guards in the riots Sorry I'm chicken i'll stay in my nice secure office

[Doris Mousdale]

I am appalled at the sight of what is being flashed around the world. How can we defend our home town
This is just mindless thuggery from a group of feral copycats. Dragged up not brought up by a lost generation of slack parents who think the world owes them a living. Its not teachers, the police or church or no jobs its just ignorance and we need to go right back to putting the parents in the picture.
No benefits until you have at least two years work experience doing whatever job assigned to you menial or otherwise
Leave school at 15 but again no benefits until you have contributed something to society either by community service or work scheme.Apprenticeships where possible help with study grants if vocational or further education courses completed. cut the stupid courses and degrees at university most of these are made up to get government funding with no prospect of jobs for the graduates. How come Polish plumbers and Chinese tilers can do the work of ten men but we pay fools not to earn their keep.
The law abiding citizens need to be able to go about their lives in a decent and safe environment not bullied by ugly ignorant scum who would rob the pennies off a dead mans eyes.

[Spike]

Dont worry, Jeremy Kyle will be back off his hols soon, he will sort this lot out.

[Ged]

One copper interviewed said 'What are we supposed to do. We got a 10 and 11 year old here, took their names and addresses, if they're blag they'll get away with it, we've been told not to leave the scene so we can't take them home to check out the addresses so they've been sent on their way and told to go home'.

What's the bet they just went around the corner to rejoin the rest of the scum. What are the parents doing to ensure they're not on the streets at unearthly hours? Yes, it's not all dole-its, it's worse!

[grekko]

And now the death of 3 men outside their mosque. Just how far will this sensless rioting be allowed to go before killings become accepted as just another part of this crazy scenario. It's becoming almost surreal.

[chasevans]

:handclap:Grekko.
To me the police are doing a good job, acting within the restrictions that society's given them. There's no quick fix. Merseyside force and Toxteth community should be applauded for last nights "calm". We should be thankful for small mercies,

Chas:PDT11

[Spike]

They should stop Sky News reporting it all. Its on 24 hours. The ones rioting will be getting kicks from this and it encourages others. Stop the papers printing photos. Give them no publicity, they feed off it.

Close Facebook, twitter until they behave.

[chasevans]

Spot on, Spike. Rumor that lad's from Bootle joined the vandalism last night.
Chas:PDT11

[goldenface]

I'm glad the community leaders in Toxteth made their voices heard and Merseyside Police showed strong presence and as chasevans said, we came off 'relatively' unscathed compare to Manchester and London.

Also, the guy who works in the shop at the top of High Park street in Toxteth said he hardly recognised anyone from his local neighbourhood which goes to show that the scumbags just descend from neighbouring communities in order to get up to no good which gives the majority of the people in Toxteth a bad name.

I hope that's the last of it anyway, I couldn't bear to see our city centre trashed - it's taken decades to get this far, I'd hate to see us take a massive step backwards.

[Ged]

It's raining. They'll all be in their rooms tonight on the X box.

[Marty1]

There is very little I can add to common sense posted here. I have no sympathy for Mark Duggan, if you want to carry a weapon then you have to face the consequences, the police were right in this case.

[chasevans]

A little bit of light humor. I was watching Manchester police officer reporting to the press. His speech was obviously scripted beforehand and he was reading from a "idiot" board. He struggled with words at times, it recalled the Wheeltappers & Shunters social club's Colin Crompton.*
Near the end of his speech he said "no stone will be left unturned."
Somewhere in my head I heard "no turn will be left unstoned".
I'd like to hear the guy's real thoughts.
No malicous intents to Manchester police and real Manc community cleaning the debris today.:handclap:
Give a bit of order now, for the next turn.
Chas:PDT11

[Ged]

He had very loose shifty eyes did that fella.

[chasevans]

The copper or Colin Crompton, Ged?
:noid:
Chas

[burkhilly]

I have to say Merseyside Police by all accounts have been brilliant, along with the other emergency services and the community groups. Well done all of them - this is positive in what has been absolutely awful scenes.

[John Doh]

I predict that the English football season is going to be delayed at least in London, Birmingham, Manchester, and Liverpool and perhaps elsewhere due to the disturbances. Maybe I am a prophet but the powers that be, Cameron and his pals, have a blinkered attitude if they are as they say "shocked" and "appalled" at what is happening. All of this could have been predicted. Maybe it comes from them all having gone to school together at Eton? :Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13

Wot, no bread or circuses! That should ensure even more riots ! As various socialists have pointed out, football is a frivolous activity invented by the ruling class to distract the workers from the serious business of making revolution. They'll postpone the season at their peril!

http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad267/empeebee/pimg4af75f994e685_front.jpg

In case you can't read it, the quotation, from Trotsky, reads as follows:

"The revolution will inevitably awaken in the British working class the deepest passions which have been diverted along artificial channels with the aid of football."

[grekko]

Typical Tottenham Supporter.

[GNASHER]

I hear they got into Goodison last night and got away with three unused tins of silver polish,a pack of dusters and the £8.50 transfer kitty.
And Spurs have signed a new player,Grabatelli.

[az_gila]

They should stop Sky News reporting it all. Its on 24 hours. The ones rioting will be getting kicks from this and it encourages others. Stop the papers printing photos. Give them no publicity, they feed off it.

Close Facebook, twitter until they behave.

Then you will never, ever get the story of what happened...:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 10:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------


:handclap:Grekko.
To me the police are doing a good job, acting within the restrictions that society's given them. There's no quick fix. Merseyside force and Toxteth community should be applauded for last nights "calm". We should be thankful for small mercies,

Chas:PDT11

There is a semi-quick fix though.

Change the police Rules of Engagement....:handclap:

Change the restrictions put on them.

[Savo]

Spike the whole idea of this delayed /held back reaction by government is to give them the excuse to CLOSE and or Monitor social network sites,media moguls like rupert the snide are loosing too much revenue as we report ,share and chat about the truth,were working class and meant to be dummys ,look at thatchers resume,dockers,printers,miners etc,they should have gone in with force last sat night and got it sorted,but rupert the sky mogul has us all glued to his news channel,more revenue for him,why did the media get to the rioters before the police? cos we as decent working class people have NO value in a rich society:rolleyes:

[chasevans]

:034:A HOLE WHERE THE RAIN COMES IN,
:034:TO STOP MY MIND FROM WANDERING,
:PDT_Aliboronz_24:WHERE it will go--oh.

[grekko]

Then you will never, ever get the story of what happened...:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 10:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------




There is a semi-quick fix though.

Change the police Rules of Engagement....:handclap:

Change the restrictions put on them.

And maybe allow residents to carry concealed handguns .

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------

In the midst of all this mayhem and murder let's hope this grieving father's plea is listened to:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14481061

[az_gila]

And maybe allow residents to carry concealed handguns .

---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------

In the midst of all this mayhem and murder let's hope this grieving father's plea is listened to:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14481061

Well the bad guys seem to have them anway.... and the muggers don't know who has one and who doesn't...:handclap:

[Ged]

I must admit to being tempted to walk into an unattended butchers after the carnage but the stakes were too high.

[lindylou]

I must admit to being tempted to walk into an unattended butchers after the carnage but the stakes were too high.

:smirk: :lol:

[grekko]

:smirk: :lol:

And you didn't veal safe?

[wsteve55]

Think he's telling porkies!:unibrow:

[Ged]

I left quickly, there was a fella smokin' a joint in the corner.

[hmtmaj]

They would have made "Mincmeat" out of you :PDT_Xtremez_42:

[grekko]

You heard the crackling ?

---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

wasn't worth your while to brisket?

[lindylou]

Ha,ha :PDT_Piratz_26:

[collegepudding]

I was goimg to say these are all HAM fisted attempts at making lght of a serious subject but on refection they are all quite RIB ticklers,so i will give my initial thoughts the CHOP !

collegepudding

[grekko]

I was goimg to say these are all HAM fisted attempts at making lght of a serious subject but on refection they are all quite RIB ticklers,so i will give my initially thoughts the CHOP !

collegepudding

You don't mince words do you CP?

[collegepudding]

You don't mince words do you CP?

Thats correct grekko and i can really BEEF things up if necessary cos i am no CHICKEN !

collegepudding

[grekko]

Thats correct grekko and i can really BEEF things up if necessary cos i am no CHICKEN !

collegepudding
Stop acting the goat.

[collegepudding]

Make no BONES about this i am very serious !

collegepudding

[grekko]

Looks like it's the brawn talking now.

[collegepudding]

If this goes on any longer ,then i will have to MEAT you outside and knock the STUFFING out of you grekko !

collgepudding

[grekko]

Cheek!, I'm only trying to keep people a breast of things and you let your tongue become fowl and threatening.

[collegepudding]

Ahhr your talking HOG wash !

collegepudding

[grekko]

You're talking tripe, don't try and out flank me!

[collegepudding]

you really are STEWpid grekko !



collegepudding

[grekko]

You won't collar me like that, I'm no chump.

[collegepudding]

Oh your really are looking for SCRAPS at the bottom of the barrel now arnt you grekko !

collegepudding

[grekko]

This thread has become offal I think it's time we took stock before we saddle up again

[collegepudding]

a FAT lot of good that would do !


collegepudding

[grekko]

I'm off now, was going to use shankspony but it'll have to be the carcass me shin is sore. ta ra.:PDT11

[collegepudding]

ok grekko, best we leave it at that ,otherwise there could be BLOOD and GUTS everywhere and we woulnt want to cause a RIOT !

ta ra:PDT11

collegepudding

---------- Post added at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

My apologies to Georgeporgie ,the originator of this thread, for me and grekko hijacking it for the last hour, but it was the best laugh i have had in a long time....cheers grekko mate !.......oh ! and hope you didnt mind us nicking your original joke Ged .

collegepudding.

[wsteve55]

They would have made "Mincmeat" out of you :PDT_Xtremez_42:

Depends on where they were meating!:o

[lindylou]

:handclap:

[Ged]

Who's going to shoulder ther blame for this lot?????

[wsteve55]

Who's going to shoulder ther blame for this lot?????

Well,you like hamming it up!:D

[collegepudding]

Who's going to shoulder ther blame for this lot?????

well i dont intend to be made the scapeGOAT for it. I wasnt the one who made a PIGS ear out of it. One thing is for sure though ,whoever is to blame is in for a right old ROASTING.

collegepudding

[grekko]

I see this thread is still dripping, I would have thought enough had been put up to fillet, at this rate it could go on for heifer and heifer.We mutton let this happen

[collegepudding]

Your right grekko. I am sorry i started this again. i feel a right SAUSAGE now !

collegepudding

[Savo]

Well said Mr P.M. you will use the full force of the law to punish these thieves,who cost the country millions,you will jail them,evict them from there homes,hoorah,oops when you said about the cretins that cost tax payers millions I thought you meant your friends THE BANKERS,THE DOGY PARLIMENT CHEATS and CORRUPT JOURNALISTS,go on davey put your hands inside your trousers and see if you can find a pair of nuts and then ALSO GO AFTER THEM,go on they ruined the country,and are repossesing decent working class homes,your just thatcher in a suit.YOU will close social network sites for rupert the snide,seen it comming long ago:snf (41):

[Marty1]

So what do you think is the answer Savo ?

[Savo]

Justice for All,yes i feel deeply for the decent people who lost all cos of these morons,i think davey should understand his job title LEADER,he didnt do much leading,but lot of *****in,when he finaly came home,of course these cretins should be jailed for stealing,but lets also jail the bankers etc,or are they above the law of the land? i know we will never have a political candidate with true values and morals,we will always have eaton educated greedy gits,house repossesions will rocket cos of the banks,so by HIM NOT doing anything to the bankers there will be a further burden on the state and the WORKING class will pay,miserey,more taxes,more unemployment,and government/media control,why did murdoc walk away from the scandals,cos he is part of the A team:ninja:

[Marty1]

Ireland is in a worse astate than we are and you don't have Dave ! Yes the Bankers are full of Greed, Yes the politicians are also greedy B******s, I agree if you break the law then you pay the price. Tell me, what should we charge the Bankers with ? What law did they break ?

[Savo]

Marty, your spot on Ireland is on verge of collapse,english/irish bankers have been making dodgy loans,paying themselves BIG bonusus,and cheeting decent people,our divi of a P.M. lied on his job application form,got found out and wasnt sacked,the irish dont care he closes hospitals,and goes after the small bond holders for money,whilst the rich stay healthy,and the sick stay poor,our police force is a joke,they just tax collect,traffic division,what a shower of farmers,you dont see them on roads outside of major citys,i live in the country so crime is very low,thats a bonus, and god help us we also have that gob s***e bono,people demonstrated at glastenbury about him and his kind NOT paying taxes,it was crushed in irish media,but parts of ireland are like bein back in the 70's so some hope remains.so the bankers here and there have commited fraud,which is still against the law i hope.[COLOR="Silver"] and our P.M. is called ENDA,what a beaut of a name lmao

[Marty1]

I don't think you can justify the Bankers wages, the sums are out of proportion to the rest. They still earn the big bucks though so little has changed ! I think the problem was greed, everyone was living in a world of debt, how anyone could afford 5 times their annual wages for a mortgage in beyond me. Now the s*** has hit the fan word wide, those with less are going to feel the pinch. Governments are to blame, in my opinion, they just let it all happen ! Anyway, you live in a great part of the world at least ! Enda is not in that long for it to have anything to do with him.

[grekko]

I blame Father Crilly.

[Marty1]

The Irish have a lot to blame the Fathers for, so why not !

[Savo]

grekko,lmao he would do a better job,Marty your spot on greed,look at the faces of the cretins rioting,it was a race thing,they were all racing to get to dixons first.

[Marty1]

When they dig him up !

[Ged]

The trouble is, the Mps, bankers and Sir Philip Green avoiding taxes did nothing illeagal and that's because our PM allows it to happen instead of changing the law - but will he - will anyone - not when it's a closed shop for those of that ilk.

[wsteve55]

Driving past the police H.Q. in town,about 6:30 tonight. I noticed 30/40 police vans parked up along the street,and in the car park,and took this pic'! Probably just on standby?!

[Ged]

I think they were on the lookout for drivers taking pics whilst driving ;)

[wsteve55]

I think they were on the lookout for drivers taking pics whilst driving ;)

Which is why there are no close-ups!:slywink:

[wsteve55]

See two lads have been done for "incitement to riot" by posting inflammatory messages on Facebook,etc! They've got 4 years each,which seems a bit harsh.......so why don't I feel any sympathy????????:handclap:

[grekko]

If you'd believed newspaper reports of the "riots" telling that the culprits were mainly young persons , it will come as a surprise to discover quite a few were way past the adolescent stage:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... court-list

[Marty1]

You're right grekko, even old buggers like us are walking about in new Trainers !

[grekko]

If you think the behaviour of the louts involved in the "riots" was bad, how about this, Liverpool 19th Century:
2254722548 Click for larger picture

From : The MONSTER EVIL...Policing and Violence in Victorian Liverpool. John E. Archer 2011. Liverpool University Press.

[Marty1]

And here's me thinking my Granny was a kind old soul !

[grekko]

It wouldn't have helped in those days to ask the army to help out either if this report is anything to go by:
22550
Click to enlarge.

[chasevans]

:handclap:

[Marty1]

A bit like Munster on a Saturday night !

[grekko]

Oh mein Gott, es ist die grüne Jacke Teufel wieder :011::beer:

[Marty1]

:PDT20Bei Gott ist es, du Schwein!

[grekko]

Sie tranken alle unsere Bier,Sie Teufelhunde.:crybaby:

[Marty1]

Ich bin bis übersetzt diesen Mist grekko zugeführt:rolleyes:

[collegepudding]

Eh ?


collegepudding

[wsteve55]

The civil rights mob,have started their usual whingeing about excessive sentencing,political pressure being applied,etc,etc! Just where would we be without them???:

Some interesting snippets there, Grekko, reminded me of articles I've read about the regular violence that occured between workers,on bank holidays,etc,in the early 20th century,and even apprentice boys holidays in the middle ages,where deaths were not uncommon,between the various factions! So,I suppose it's always gone on,in some shape or form!

[grekko]

---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------

[/COLOR]
The civil rights mob,have started their usual whingeing about excessive sentencing,political pressure being applied,etc,etc! Just where would we be without them???:

Some interesting snippets there, Grekko, reminded me of articles I've read about the regular violence that occured between workers,on bank holidays,etc,in the early 20th century,and even apprentice boys holidays in the middle ages,where deaths were not uncommon,between the various factions! So,I suppose it's always gone on,in some shape or form!



Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Similarities to the police response to public re: Mark Duggan.

October 1886... Cavendish St/Marybone High Rip Gang incident.

The following day, a journalist called at the Central Police Station for information, but was brusquely turned away.He then visited the public house, which was surrounded by police officers standing among the broken glass. It was obvious that there had been an incident and yet the police attitude was very terse and discourteous, with officers refusing to provide any details. The journalist was left with the opinion, apparently one that was shared by many others, that the police treated respectable citizens as their natural enemy rather than as the people they were paid to protect.


I am not suggesting that is the attitude of the present day police, far from it, but unfortunately there still exists within the police body individuals who appear to believe in behaving in the manner the journalist noted.

[Marty1]

The civil rights mob,have started their usual whingeing about excessive sentencing,political pressure being applied,etc,etc! Just where would we be without them???

Yes, they're now coming out of the woodwork as expected, they're a pain in the arse !!


unfortuneately there still exists within the police body individuals who appear to believe in behaving in the manner the journalist noted.

I think you have a good point there grekko, they are arrogant and lack manners, well the one who gave me 3 points for speeding did. Where is Dixon of Dock Green when you need him ?

[chasevans]

I think that traffic/ tunnel cops fit Marty1's description. Generally the "crime" police are over courteous in these PC times. Who'd be a bobby?
"A policeman's lot is not a happy one"
Evening all,
Chas:cry:

[Marty1]

I never expected him to say, "well marty you were going a tad fast there, I'm sorry but I have to give you a ticket hope you don't mind" ! I suppose they can't win !

[Diane Louise]

I think you have a good point there grekko, they are arrogant and lack manners, well the one who gave me 3 points for speeding did. Where is Dixon of Dock Green when you need him ?

When I was stopped by a speed held camera, the other policeman who 'dealt' with me was very nice and when he had finished speaking to me I told him that drink driving was a much more serious offence. I just had to have my say and I did feel better for it!

The most I had was six points and now I have none which makes me very happy!

[Marty1]

When I was stopped by a speed held camera, the other policeman who 'dealt' with me was very nice

You must have charmed him ! If I was a policeman you may have got off !:ninja:

[Diane Louise]

You must have charmed him ! If I was a policeman you may have got off !:ninja:

I didn't charm him enough, I still got 3 points and a fine! I was so nervous driving around with 6 points. Pure torture!

[wsteve55]

I think that traffic/ tunnel cops fit Marty1's description. Generally the "crime" police are over courteous in these PC times. Who'd be a bobby?
"A policeman's lot is not a happy one"
Evening all,
Chas:cry:

Though I've given them some stick,over the years,I've always appreciated the fact that I couldn't,and wouldn't, do the job for the proverbial "Big Clock"! I never thought I'd miss the police landrovers driving slowly through the city centre,with the back doors open,at the weekend! I think it helped many to "calm down",before things got out of hand,much like the pub's where the police called in for last orders,and most did likewise!

[Marty1]

I never thought I'd miss the police landrovers driving slowly through the city centre,with the back doors open,at the weekend!

I wished I'd missed them back in 1971 when they lifted me and put me up for the night !

[Diane Louise]

I wished I'd missed them back in 1971 when they lifted me and put me up for the night !

Where you drunk and disorderly!

[Marty1]

I was drunk and higgledy-piggledy, cost me a £5 fine ! :028:

[chasevans]

I was drunk and higgledy-piggledy, cost me a £5 fine ! :028:
1968 I got fined £5 for similar, after spending the night in Crosby police station. Earlier in the year i got a fine for not attending court as a witness. Police hammered at door 8am, took me to the Bridewell, up before the beak at midday, "£25 fine for contempt of court". OUCH, don't know if I'm an old contemptible or an old drunk, Marty.
Chas:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Diane Louise]

I was drunk and higgledy-piggledy, cost me a £5 fine ! :028:

I guess you just weren't used to drinking beer! :)

[Marty1]

I guess you just weren't used to drinking beer!

I think after 15 pints I deserved to be a bit higgledy-piggledy !


don't know if I'm an old contemptible or an old drunk,

I suspect we're a bit of both Chas ! :wasted:

[wsteve55]

About '72, gang of us went to a chinese,in Leece st! As we were taking turns to settle up,some wondered where a couple of lads ahead,had gone? We all got out,but the same couple were not to be seen, anywhere? It took a few phone calls the next day,to find out, that they had made some sort of comment,to one of said passing landrover's,to be whacked with a truncheon,and carted off to the nearest bridewell!! One broken jaw,and one black eye,was a testament to their (drunken) smart-arse attitude,but no one even mentioned rioting in response,just a couple of "you should have known better" type comments!!!:nod: