New Crime Figures

[Paul D]

Merseyside Police lead country in cutting crime
Merseyside Police (158)

MERSEYSIDE Police has seen the biggest reduction in crime of any force in the country over the last 12 months – saving the region nearly £200m, figures revealed today.

Overall, crime has fallen in on Merseyside by 11%, which equates to nearly 20,000 incidents, according to annual crime statistics released this morning by the Home Office.

The force says it approach of Total Policing – war on crime and support for victims – has been the key to it success, and it is "well on the way to becoming the best in the country".

Violent crime has seen the most significant drop, with a 25% reduction, equivalent to 9,000 fewer crimes.

Merseyside is bucking the national trend with an 8% fall in robberies, compared to a general three percent rise.

The statistics also reveal that sexual offences on Merseyside are down 20%; drugs offences down 15%, vehicle crime down 12%; criminal damage down 4% and burglary down 3%.

The number of arrests made has increased in the last 12 months by 42%.

All in all, this has saved the regional economy £191,898,421, in terms of the cost each crime has on the victim, employer, the insurance industry, health service, and criminal justice system.

Merseyside Police has employed a variety of new techniques including targeted operations, use of automatic number plate recognition vehicles, launching Axis, a dedicated anti-social behaviour task force, and the seizure of cash and assets from those involved in criminal activity.

Assistant Chief Constable Simon Byrne said: "I must take this opportunity to acknowledge the work of everyone involved in reducing crime and increasing arrests on Merseyside. We could not have achieved this without the hard work of many people.

"However we mustn’t be complacent. These results are fantastic news, however we want to continue improving and reducing crime further."

Plans to reform the way crime figures are gathered were also set to be unveiled today. It has already emerged that the Government’s flagship crime statistics may be altered to include crimes committed against children for the first time.

The British Crime Survey (BCS) - seen by the Government as the most reliable indicator of crime trends - has previously been criticised for excluding offences against under-16s.

Now Home Office officials have disclosed that future rounds of the massive interview-based poll may include youngsters, as well as people living in group residences such as student halls of residence and old people’s homes, which are also currently missed out of the poll.

[Paul D]

But fear of crime is still high because I think some people only think that crime happens here and nowhere else in the World.Liverpool seems to suffer a lot with anti social behaviour which makes people feel like they're under siege I think but that is happening all over the UK,it's just that we beat ourselves up about it.

[shytalk]

You are right Paul, it is a national problem that will be hard to solve because it has been ignored for so long. It will probably take an iron fist approach to make any headway in beating it.
It is like the gang problem in big cities here, for decades there was a 'Ignore it and it will go away' attitude until it got way out of control.

[steveb]

Don't forget this is reported crime, and to be honest not that many report
it unless it is an insurance claim were they need a crime number

[lindylou]

There's loads of stuff goes unreported. :neutral:

[Paul D]

There's loads of stuff goes unreported. :neutral:

But this applies to all over the UK aswell so this brings us back tro the original point which is Liverpool had the biggest fall in crime in England.On TV it also stated that this hasn't gone unnoticed by the Government.Anyone can put up individual experiences as I'm sure they will but the fact of the matter is we constantly out perform everywhere else and they suffer from worse crime and the stats are there to prove this year on year,yet some people constantly convince themselves that we are in a state of anarchy which just isn't true.Take a walk around Hulme or Salford of a night and see what happens if you don't believe it.

[Kev]

So, apart from local media reporting Liverpool as the one with the largest reduction, has the rest of the media mentioned L'pool?

Positive news :PDT11

[Paul D]

No mention of Liverpool being the best performer in the UK on the BBC news (national version) no and the NW News said manc had a slight rise when really it had an 8% rise and was the only place to do so in the North West.

[steveb]

But this applies to all over the UK aswell so this brings us back tro the original point which is Liverpool had the biggest fall in crime in England.On TV it also stated that this hasn't gone unnoticed by the Government.Anyone can put up individual experiences as I'm sure they will but the fact of the matter is we constantly out perform everywhere else and they suffer from worse crime and the stats are there to prove this year on year,yet some people constantly convince themselves that we are in a state of anarchy which just isn't true.Take a walk around Hulme or Salford of a night and see what happens if you don't believe it.

All it means is more Liverpool people don't report stuff. I have said all this
before, say 1000 crimes happen in the Pool, yet only 10 peops report any
1000 crimes in Manc yet 100 people report them, who,s figures look the best
Wouldn't go to Manchester in the daylight never mind at night :snf (41):

[Paul D]

All it means is more Liverpool people don't report stuff. I have said all this
before, say 1000 crimes happen in the Pool, yet only 10 peops report any
1000 crimes in Manc yet 100 people report them, who,s figures look the best
Wouldn't go to Manchester in the daylight never mind at night :snf (41):

That's the pessimistic way of looking at it and you are right but if all of that happens the other way around which is also possible then we are doing so much better.That point you made can work both ways and that would put us in an even better position that even this,think positive.

[Shapers]

Sorry to say but i agree with the unreported crimes statment, plus people who don't go no further through intimidation, like the old women last year who reported all the local thugs and rats only to have her indentity leaked by bungling authorities which then resulted her being driven out of her home and labelled a grass. She then stopped assisting with the cases.

I know it dosen't only happen in Liverpool, and Liverpool maybe not THE worst but i would gues it is in the top 10 areas of anti social behaviour and violent crimes. A gang of scrotes could cause about 10 crimes in one night, 10 in another, ranging from battering someone to stealing from a shop to smashing property and dealing drugs. Not many get reported for fear of being labelled a grass.

The police do seem to be doing something when the ECHO cameras are beaming on them, but i would bet people living on a rundown estate are not seeing as much action.

Statistics can be manipulated, like in the The British Crime Survey (BCS) when they did'nt include under 16s.

[steveb]

That's the pessimistic way of looking at it and you are right but if all of that happens the other way around which is also possible then we are doing so much better.That point you made can work both ways and that would put us in an even better position that even this,think positive.

No, I'm being realistic. Not just Liverpool, people just don't bother reporting
crime, unless a crime number is needed, especialy burglary asthe chance of
that being solved is practicaly, zero.
I had the misfortune to get called out to an alarm fault in Manchester at
2am, not knowing my way around I got out of the car to ask directions from
a chap in an all night chippy,, came back, ladders and roofrack missing off my
car, all in a matter of 2 minutes. Found a bobby shop reported it got a number
and that was it, no follow up from police so ended up yet another statistic, my
point being, what was the point of reporting it knowing full well that it would
get no further... I see what you are getting at, but in reality it is just figures
to make things look better than they are

[Kev]

Well, Granada has just covered it with the Liverpool reduction focus.

[Shapers]

Well a report and real life witnesses. i know which one i would believe.

[marky]

I don't believe that crime has reduced. I prefer to believe personal experience and my own eyes. Crime has supposed to have reduced over the past decade...that's the biggest laugh. More and more people are just no longer reporting crimes, as it's a complete waste of time. I'll bet there's a huge difference between Reported Crime and Real Crime.

[Kev]

I don't particularly trust the stats, what's important to me is the reporting of Liverpool having the biggest reduction of crime.

[Jericho]

For statistics that reflect people's experience of crime (not whether or not it has been reported). This survey which surveys people's experience of crime is seen as being more accurate:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html

[Shapers]

I don't particularly trust the stats, what's important to me is the reporting of Liverpool having the biggest reduction of crime.


But from personal experience, i don't think it has been reduced, its gone out of control if anything else. ASBOs being dished out like sweets, police targeting motorists rather than car robbers, kids not even disguising the fact there robbing something or someone, public transport full of scallies causing murder, loitering outside shops intimidating people, gangs wars. Its gone double what as happening as little as 5 years ago.

To the Police's defence, there hands are tied as the scums human rights always comes before justice.

[lindylou]

ditto to all that Shapers has said.


It's most definately gone worse during the last 5 years.

Not only that, but they think nothing of doing just as they like right in front of you. They don't even try to hide now.
They deal drugs, take drugs, racialy abuse people, smash windows and vehicles no matter who is passing by.
I have seen these things go on all the time.
I've seen vans get smashed and broken into in broad daylight in front of passers by - morning times and afternoons when mums and kids are out shopping. I have witnessed this about 3 maybe 4 times.

Drug dealing is so open and commonplace now that no one thinks any more of it.



It is all well out of control. :disgust:

[shytalk]

I refer you to
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5271
post #8
This chief Constable or Conman whichever way you see it, is now proudly boasting that his is the best police force in the country.

[lindylou]

I know, I read it Shy.

Well said :nod:,

we shouldn't need 'Guardian Angels' if we had the protection we deserve. :neutral:

I don't know much about what the ordinary man in street can do though - people attend forums and meetings and suchlike, everyone airs their views to councillors and community police, complaints are noted - but nothing ever changes .. it only gets worse. :sad:

[steveb]

I know, I read it Shy.

Well said :nod:,

we shouldn't need 'Guardian Angels' if we had the protection we deserve. :neutral:

I don't know much about what the ordinary man in street can do though - people attend forums and meetings and suchlike, everyone airs their views to councillors and community police, complaints are noted - but nothing ever changes .. it only gets worse. :sad:

The idea of the forums etc is to give the impression that somethink is or
will be done, but as you rightly say, nowt ever happens...

[shytalk]

My idea of a website to put pressure on the police might work, I would do it if I knew how.

[Shapers]

The thing you have to stop thinking is 'its not only Liverpool' mentallity. In order to gain a measure of improvement, you have to stop thinking 'well its worse in Moss Side in Manchester' because so what, its not Moss Side or Brixton or Glasgow were living in. Its like accepting having a leaky roof because next doors is leakier, you address the problem as its were you live.

Liverpool has a lot going for it, but its also got a ton of problems that outweigh the good and its mainly down to anti social behaviour and crime. It comes to something were you can get your face smashed in for simply walking through your local park or waiting for the number 68 bus,
and it gets filmed, and it gets shown on youtube. Plus gets to something when a scrote can give the police abuse. One thing thats become the norm now is groups of teens or scum in there 20s, even 30s walking round and snarling people willy nilly. When someone stands up to them, the gang wade in, can't have 'one of their own' being shown up now can they.

I have been victim to being jumped by a gang of lads on more than one occasion, wrong place wrong time. I have also had a mate and a cousin stamped on outside a pub with there girlfriend by a gang of louts. All happened in Liverpool, and going by the attackers accents when there screaming obscenities, all by my brother scousers.

Lindylou will know the Cabbage Hall, my cousin was battered outside there.

So this is why i do not give Liverpool the praise those think it deserves gets. Cynical or realistic or plain unlucky. I go for realistic.

[WilliamBrown]

Working with criminals in six countries over 50 years (and still working with them) my experience is that crime is increasing. I began as a Liverpool copper then CID etc. Classification of crimes has changed: statistical recording and reporting has changed: crime patterns have remained (in the main) the same. Liverpool is no different than most major cities. We must never put the Pool down - it is our birthplace. However, crime is now 'Out There' and in our faces in the media. I just do not believe that the Pool records an 11% drop in crime. Nor do I believe the increased detection rate. When I was working out of Rose Hill and then Prescot Street in the 50's and 60's we had all sorts of ways of 'fudging figures' both crimes reported and crimes cleared up. It ain't changed neither!! Every country I go to the perception of the average Jo Citizen is that crime is on the increase. They can't all be wrong. Confidence in the police is also (internationally) deteriorating. Where once I walked with confidence about my safety I now walk with fear. And it ain't because I'm getting older.

[shytalk]

WilliamBrown,
Sounds like you hit the nail on the head there. The question is 'what to do about it', I have been away a long time and I am told that the EU is partly to blame by protecting criminals human rights while ignoring the rights of the victims. Is there any truth in this?.
BTW did you know Sgt. Taylor from Prescot St. in the 50's and 60's.

[WilliamBrown]

Hi Shytalk: No can't remember a Sergeant Taylor: He was probably in uniform. CID and uniform were (unfortunately) rivals in those days. Nevertheless we still worked together. Someone once said, (can't remember who) that if criminals didn't exist we'd have to find another 'underclass' to blame for the ills of the world. In other words they serve a purpose. Skewed thinking perhaps - but when one looks at it, maybe the bloke had a point. Whatever we do, crime will always exist. Of course that always depends on one's definition of crime. Invariably it begins in the home and spreads into the community. So if there is anything we can do about it that's where we must start. We've tried nearly every method - it still ain't working. Nobody has come up with a new idea in 50 years. Maybe variations on the same theme - but nowt really new!

PS sounds like you don't like the Beatles: neither did I - a real smelly lot when they first did their thing at the Cavern. Between them they could only play three notes on the guitar. Oops - wait for the flak on that.

[shytalk]

Yes, he was a uniformed officer. Great old guy, even the people he arrested liked him. He used to ride one of the old fashioned police bikes with the big leather bag on it.

[WilliamBrown]

Hi Shytalk. So did I ride those bikes. We got paid Half a Crown a week extra to buy a puncture outfit (and the blighters taxed it!). Riding the station bike came only after two years - and was thought of as 'promotion'. These days the young coppers are in the cars and off they go! What changes eh? Apart from despatches we kept all sorts of funny things in those triangular leather cases. Ha Ha!!