Whilst googling something, I came across a forum where someone is saying Liverpool is the most deprived city in Britain and has the worst economy.

http://www.asuz39.dsl.pipex.com/liverpool/


Do others on here find it really that bad?

It has been since at least the 1970s.
Isn't that why we get EU money?
(And what about COC, wasn't that a consolation prize?).

Yes, I knew we got objective 1 funding because of our 'plight' but didn't know we were out on our own on a limb.

Pete Price last night has a phone-in (I was out driving and normally wouldn't hear it) regarding the Liverpool v Manchester issue. Some good views but mainly kno bheads ringing in either drunk or drugged.

LIVERPOOL’S dependence on “grant culture” has officially come to an end, an annual review by urban regeneration company Liverpool Vision revealed last night. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=city-ditches-european-cash-handouts-image%26method=full%26objectid=19330722%26siteid=5 0061-name_page.html)

JOHN PRESCOTT yesterday launched a savage attack on Tory grandee Lord Heseltine's claims to have kick-started Liverpool's renaissance. more (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/tm_headline=prescott-attacks-tory-peer-over-city%2Ds-1980s-decline%26method=full%26objectid=19330568%26siteid =50061-name_page.html)

If it wasn't for Michael Heseltine the Albert Dock would have been knocked down and none of the regeneration taking place would have happened.

The Labour Party presided over the decline of Liverpool in the 70's and 80's and 90's. Since Labour was booted out a decade ago and the Lib Dems took over the city has witnessed a massive renaissance. Labour and by that I mean very OLD Labour in Liverpool was a disaster for this city. New Labour are certainly much better but I am yet to be convinced that the Labour party in Liverpool is Blairite and not militant in tooth and claw.

Whilst googling something, I came across a forum where someone is saying Liverpool is the most deprived city in Britain and has the worst economy.

http://www.asuz39.dsl.pipex.com/liverpool/


Do others on here find it really that bad?


Thanks for posting these very interesting statistics GED. Whilst the last 10 years has seen a lot of regeneration in Liverpool, a lot of this has been with Objective 1 European money which is due to run out shortly. For Liverpool to succeed, it really needs to attract wealth generating large commercial organisations to base their offices here. This is an area where it has singularly failed and why it will continue to languish at the bottom of the GDP tables. Would all these tower blocks going up were offices and not speculative flats then Liverpool's economy would be on a much sounder footing.

Lies, d*mn lies and statistics. Statistics can be misleading though I think it is fairly evident that we have witnessed a significant widening of the gap between rich and poor in the city in recent years which I believe underlies many of our social problems. Is the current development addressing this? I don't think so - it is too focussed on the city centre and waterfront. Why couldn't a project like the new arena have been built somewhere more accessible like on the East Lancs in Gillmoss, for example, to help regenerate the community there? I often travel to Sheffield where the regeneration efforts seem to be far more dispersed than here. Even if you only live as far out from the centre as Everton or Kensington there is no sense that you are part of some great resurgence of the city. :(

Good reading...But I think the way things are going it's more profitable to employ people from distant lands (call centres) even better, set up business in say, China or any other place where labour is cheap, then import your goods here for a better return. People slate McDonalds and Nike but they're still in business and mega rich too.

It's just like the Victorians did during the industrial revolution. They got mega rich due to the fact that cheap labour was on their doorstep, it's the same principal. Look at china's economy now due to investors making it there place for trade and industry.

I think we'll wait a long time before Liverpool ever becomes a boom town unless we have something spectacular to offer or work for peanuts, at leaest we had the Beatles and two famous footy clubs...:sad:

A vibrant Liverpool has emerged from one of poverty. Larry Neild reports more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=liverpool%2D%2D8217%2Ds-dramatic-new-skyline-%2D%2D8216%2Dlike-a-mini%2Dmanhattan%2D%2D8217%2D%26method=full%26obje ctid=19336986%26siteid=50061-name_page.html)

I agree that the money must find its way into the run down estates too of course and callers to Pete Price and Roger Phillips have expressed the same fears, however, both say that you must start at the heart and it will spread out. Hopefully this will be true.

I also agree that Eastern European and Far Eastern factories are now the norm as the likes of car plants, Nike, Black & Decker, Dyson etc leave these shores for cheaper manufacturing but it's also true that Manchester can lure most of the worlds banks and Consulates to their city for their head offices. We must compete in the business markets.

Northern cities 'still suffering from decline and deprivation'
By Ben Russell, Political Correspondent
Published: 09 July 2007

Decline and deprivation still afflicts some of England's once-great northern cities despite the much-vaunted urban renaissance of the past decade, a think-tank close to the Government will warn today.

Northern cities dominate the list of the worst performers and are lagging behind the most successful boom towns of the South, according to research by the left-leaning Institute for Public Policy Research (http://www.ippr.org.uk/) (IPPR).

Liverpool was rated the lowest performing city in England, followed by Middlesbrough, Birmingham, Sunderland and Newcastle, according to economists who carried out the research.

More (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article2747749.ece)...

by Larry Neild,
Liverpool Daily Post

LIVERPOOL has the country's lowest proportion of its population in work and the worst record for people with job skills, a ****ing report reveals today.

The city also has most benefit claimants among 56 cities and major towns in England, a study by an influential Government backed policy group reports

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=city-has-fewest-jobs-and-most-benefit-claimants%26method=full%26objectid=19427522%26site id=50061-name_page.html

It's worth keeping in mind that economics is a pesudo-science, about as 'scientific' as astrology (joke). What you put into the chart (statistical analysis) determines what you get out of it. Any analysis that used indices of deprivation, educational level, benefit claims, etc will currently have Liverpool near the bottom but that doesn't provide a measure of where Liverpool is currently or where it will be in 5 year's time because a lot can change in a year (either way). I can remember a few years ago city planners where assuming that the city's population would continue to decline to below 400k because it was in line with the pre-existing trend. A more accurate picture would be painted by an analysis of the gross worth of the city's economy, and whether this is improving/deteriorating year on year.

MORE Liverpudlians lived in poverty under Tony Blair than Margaret Thatcher, ****ing statistics revealed.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/07/18/we-re-poorest-in-the-country-100252-19470702/

The figures used are seven years out of date!!

So what? Surely Thatcher started it, and so this is her legacy. I don't think any PM would've been able to completely undo the damage she did.

“Taxation became more burdensome under Blair which made it harder to get into work and come off benefits.”
Then how are all these immigrants managing to get work and live here? I think there is a large group of people who would rather be on benefits than go to work. Why are people on benefits in the first place? I think lack of qualifications, teenage pregancy, credit/debt, poor self-motivation and other factors outside of the government's control will be partly to blame for future unemployment and 'poverty'.

At one point I earnt an absolute pittance, and could just about afford £10 each week to buy food, but I did something about it. Now I earn over twice what I did then. Perhaps some people expect too much on a plate?

So what? Surely Thatcher started it, and so this is her legacy. I don't think any PM would've been able to completely undo the damage she did.

Damage she did? This country has been damaged since the end of the last war, young Snappel, so I wouldn't blame all the ills of the '80's on Mrs Thatcher.

I wasn't blaming them all on her, just as I don't think we should blame them all on Tony.

I think Maggie was wonderful, she did the best thing anyone ever did for me. She sickened me of the U.K. and I emigrated:PDT_Aliboronz_24:.

Bollox again, mixed messages I feel we get mixed messages from the media.

One minute we are told we have the UK's fastest growing 'whatever', then this. What are people more likely to remember? The negetive stuff, u can't have a laugh and a joke, taking the piss about Liverpool having Europe's fastest growing airport (or maybe we don't, who knows!!!)

Does my head in.

You have to learn to take media views with a pinch of salt, don't forget
newspaper stories are to sell the paper, as for statistics, most are well
out of date, plus of course can be manipulated to say anything....

Yes, I totally agree, the newspapers will write things with a slant towards whatever is topical.

Not really a newspaper view - the article's about the new report from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, and what it tells us about poverty in Liverpool.

While there certainly have been improvements in poverty and unemployment levels since 2000, latest figures show that Liverpool has some of the poorest wards in the country, with Liverpool Riverside being named as the constituency with the second highest rate of child poverty. The continuing problems of poverty in the city are borne out by an array of heath statistics, but to give just one - there is a gap in life expectancy of 7.7 years between the poorest and the most affluent areas of Liverpool.

I sent the following letter to the Daily Post today :


Your report "Liverpool leads the poverty league" omits one important
fact : it is not just a question of people living off benefits - many of
the people classed by the JRF as living in poverty are in work.

This is because the national minimum wage is set at a level too low to
raise people above poverty levels.

I believe that everyone in full time work should be paid a "living
wage" set at a level high enough to raise them out of poverty. I am not
alone in this. I am running a petition on the 10 Downing Street website
for a living wage and an end to poverty pay which on Wednesday went over
1,000 signatures. I would urge all your readers to sign my petition at
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/living-wage-2007/ .

Further information about the campaign can be found on my website
http://livingwageuk.wordpress.com/ .

Since when Is not having central heating and not owning a car poverty?

Never had central heating ever.

Being on benefits Is not really living In Poverty considering the benifits some are on and go for. Some go on benefit on purpose too. There are people who are struggling on benefits too though.

Younger people are discriminated by the minimum wage being lower for them, yet higher for someone who does the same job but Is older. Why?

Where do yer dry yer undies Max.

On a washing line.

Most of the people considered to be living In poverty would have central heating too as most council houses have It installed.

On a washing line.

Most of the people considered to be living In poverty would have central heating too as most council houses have It installed.



Noooooooo..I meant without a hot Car Exhaust.

he goes commando, the hussy :PDT10

They dry naturally by the win or the suns light.

Going commando Is for dirty hippies who pretend they want to save the world.

he goes commando, the hussy :PDT10

D'yer reckon shapers mate..
Yer dont do yer Max ??

No I don't since I ain't a hippie.

D'yer reckon shapers mate..
Yer dont do yer Max ??


All just speculation and rumours started by them Sailors hes been mixing with :unibrow:

What Is this mixing with anyone? This does not exist I thought.

What Is this mixing with anyone? This does not exist I thought.

apparently your undies don't exist :shock:

apparently your undies don't exist :shock:

Never put yer white bill grundy's in with yer purple V neck ball stranglers..
Now they definately dont mix..Lol

Never put yer white bill grundy's in with yer purple V neck ball stranglers..
Now they definately dont mix..Lol

Now you tell me, there in full spin now :eek:

Now you tell me, there in full spin now :eek:


Noooooooooooo..Stop the wash...

Great.....:disgust:

will have to do a Max and go without :PDT_Xtremez_42:

Great.....:disgust:

will have to do a Max and go without :PDT_Xtremez_42:


Lets all go with out T'morrer...Yeyyyyyyyyyyyy

Bollox again, mixed messages I feel we get mixed messages from the media.

One minute we are told we have the UK's fastest growing 'whatever', then this. What are people more likely to remember? The negetive stuff, u can't have a laugh and a joke, taking the piss about Liverpool having Europe's fastest growing airport (or maybe we don't, who knows!!!)

Does my head in.

Kev

I think you're wrong. There have been numerous sets of statistics published and reports produced over recent years from various authoritative sources and they are all telling the same story i.e. that the majority of people in Liverpool are not benefitting financially from the city's new found prosperity (yes a few are doing very well out of it) and that consequently the gap between the rich and poor in the city is widening. :sad:

[QUOTE=Howie;68980]Kev

I think you're wrong. There have been numerous sets of statistics published and reports produced over recent years from various authoritative sources and they are all telling the same story i.e. that the majority of people in Liverpool are not benefitting financially from the city's new found prosperity (yes a few are doing very well out of it) and that consequently the gap between the rich and poor in the city is widening. :sad:[/QUOTE

This is even more true of London than Liverpool. I think it's an accurate observation but I'm not sure what can be done about it. Ultimately I guess its a question of who has responsibility to do what. If the majority of people are not benefiting from an increase in prosperity whose responsibility is that? What prevents them from benefiting? How much of this is in their control? How can wealth be redistributed and the incentive to increase wealth production be maintained?

Kev

I think you're wrong. There have been numerous sets of statistics published and reports produced over recent years from various authoritative sources and they are all telling the same story i.e. that the majority of people in Liverpool are not benefitting financially from the city's new found prosperity (yes a few are doing very well out of it) and that consequently the gap between the rich and poor in the city is widening. :sad:


Exactly, through CoC especially, those already wealthy are getting wealthier whilst small businesses are suffering i.e the working class who've mortgaged there house or invested there redundancy, took a gamble and tried to make themselves a bit of money. Looks like the working class are being 'kept in ther place'.

There is a definate divide which is increasing in this city.

I have mixed feelings about whether true poverty truly still exists. Try telling our forefathers that there is poverty in Everton, Kirkdale, Kensington, Vauxhall today (the areas always touted up) and i'm sure if they were still around they'd laugh in your face.

Everyone seems to have a colour telly, i'd go so far to say, multiple tellys and large ones too. Ciggies and booze don't come that cheap, nor those PJ's they walk around in (mind you TJ's isn't far)

I think a lot of the time, it's more about apportioning and channelling the money to where it should be spent within the family.

A bloke was on a radio phone-in this week bemoaning the fact that a little pension he was in, the money of which he'd earned put him over the top by a couple of quid to obtain benefits now he was out of work. (you could also say money saved apart from a pension) has been taxed and then interest applied)

A mate of his hadn't worked a day in his life though but got free rent, council tax, glasses, dental work etc etc and they try to entice youngsters into private pensions saying start early - yes, you get a bigger kick in the teeth then.

[This is even more true of London than Liverpool. I think it's an accurate observation but I'm not sure what can be done about it. Ultimately I guess its a question of who has responsibility to do what. If the majority of people are not benefiting from an increase in prosperity whose responsibility is that? What prevents them from benefiting? How much of this is in their control? How can wealth be redistributed and the incentive to increase wealth production be maintained?

Of course this has been true since the dawn of time. Even those societies which attempted equality for all failed in their attempt. It's simply down to human nature and differences in people's abilities.

I have mixed feelings about whether true poverty truly still exists. Try telling our forefathers that there is poverty in Everton, Kirkdale, Kensington, Vauxhall today (the areas always touted up) and i'm sure if they were still around they'd laugh in your face.

Everyone seems to have a colour telly, i'd go so far to say, multiple tellys and large ones too. Ciggies and booze don't come that cheap, nor those PJ's they walk around in (mind you TJ's isn't far)

I think a lot of the time, it's more about apportioning and channelling the money to where it should be spent within the family.

A bloke was on a radio phone-in this week bemoaning the fact that a little pension he was in, the money of which he'd earned put him over the top by a couple of quid to obtain benefits now he was out of work. (you could also say money saved apart from a pension) has been taxed and then interest applied)

A mate of his hadn't worked a day in his life though but got free rent, council tax, glasses, dental work etc etc and they try to entice youngsters into private pensions saying start early - yes, you get a bigger kick in the teeth then.

:handclap: that is all so true.

you'd be better off on income support. No rent or taxes to pay. free treatment for everything. Live in a housing association and you don't have to lift a finger - everything is done for you - central heating, new windows and doors, house painted regular (all the association houses in our street got done last week) you don't have to pay out for a thing to maintain your home.

You don't even have to pay for your kids biscuits at school !! :rolleyes: That was one thing that really used to rile me ... when my son was little, it was 30p a week at the time for school biscuits. The 'unwaged' didn't have to pay.

For God's sake surely anybody could afford a few pence for their kids Biscuits.

Same with school trips etc, only the soft muggins who work (usually on a low wage I might add) have to put their hand in their pockets.

:snf (41):Spot on, thats why most of the world,want to live here, should be
called freebeeland, not U.K.

Poverty is a relative thing. Millions of people in the UK are considered to live in poverty because they are obliged to do without things that we regard as necessities (such as inadequate housing, clothing, or diet) with effects not just on the comforts and luxuries they can enjoy, but on their health, education and life expectancy.

This page on the Oxfam website http://www.oxfamgb.org/ukpp/poverty/thefacts.htm is a good summary of what is meant by poverty in the UK, and how it compares with poverty in poorer countries.

Poverty in parts of Liverpool was worse under Blair than Thatcher, so says an official statement. The rich have got richer over the last 20 years and the poor stayed the same. Some people blame the poor for their own situation undoubtedly there are people who are happy to live off benefits but the majority are caught in a no win situation. Governments need to offer people jobs or at least provide the conditions where jobs can be created---REAL jobs not low paid ones that is the only thing that is gonna change the situation.

The Merseyside breadline
If we want to make poverty history, Liverpool would be a good place to start.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/site_imagery/alex_hilton_140x140.jpg
Alex Hinton (http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/alex_hilton/profile.html)

July 29, 2007

The Joseph Rowntree report, Poverty and Place in Britain - 1968 to 2005 (http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Society/documents/2007/07/17/JRFfullreport.pdf), published earlier this month, contained a stark message for Liverpool. The study indicated that the city contains 108,000 households in breadline poverty, centered on West Derby and Riverside - the most extreme levels found in Britain.

After 10 years of a Labour government, it's right that we should take this very seriously indeed, and consider what we could do better. The report has led to a lot of discussion on the gap between rich and poor, but focusing on the gap intellectualises the problem too far: if we could simply abolish poverty, I wouldn't truly care how wealthy the rich got. OK - it sounds like a utopian suggestion but I'm convinced this is achievable and it's why I'm standing for the Labour parliamentary candidacy in Liverpool West Derby.

The response to the Joseph Rowntree report from Lib Dem council leader Warren Bradley is disappointing. He said, "Blame clearly lies at the government's door. They came into government on the premise they would break down the barriers between the rich and the poor, and they have not". But this is people's lives we are talking about and I would have been more impressed if he had talked about working with government to solve this crisis rather than taking a cheap, political shot. He does manage an annual budget of £700m after all.

And in the same week, Lib Dem Leader Ming Campbell announced a package of tax proposals that would further enrich the wealthiest:

• A basic rate income tax cut that benefits families earning up to £68,000? What benefit do households on £68k need that is greater than a household on £16,000?

• Raising the inheritance tax threshold, which will benefit only the six per cent wealthiest estates.

• Reducing house purchase stamp duty on houses under half a million pounds, a measure that benefits buy-to-let landlords at the expense of their tenants.

• The local income tax obsession - no one has explained to me how it's fair for a family earning a total of £38,000, renting a terraced house, to pay more tax than a wealthy retired person in a million pound mansion that they've bought outright.

Breadline poverty is a crisis in Liverpool and it's clear the Lib Dem council is not going to provide the leadership required to solve it - when they can simply blame it on the government instead. It will be up to local MPs to take on this role, and as a local MP, these are the steps I would take to make poverty history in Liverpool:

• The minimum wage must be raised to the level of a decent living wage and the "discounted" rate for younger workers must be abolished. No one in a full-time job should be on the breadline.

• Work with the council, the government and other funding bodies to build a framework that encourages - and funds - the most effective voluntary and social enterprise schemes in welfare, education, youth services, drugs and alcohol support and other areas, so that local people can take part in the project to abolish poverty in Liverpool.

• Work with schools, colleges, universities, the education authority and parents and students to innovate in education. Our schools need support to instill discipline, self-esteem and ambition into young people.

• Secure increased funding for adult education and training, giving people the chance to develop skills and interests that will improve both opportunity in the jobs market and quality of life.

• Champion Liverpool as a place to do business. Public and private sector employers need to be encouraged into the area so that a whole range of jobs are available for local people - so we can turn the Liverpool economy into one based on high skills, not low wages.

It's an enormous task and in many ways there are already individuals and organisations taking on some of these challenges in difficult circumstances. But it's a task that no-one can accomplish on their own and it requires leadership, support, encouragement, co-ordination, and above all, dogged determination. And this is what I would offer.

You know, an MP's salary of £60,000 is beyond the reach of the average resident in West Derby. Even someone on half that salary would be among the top 10% earners in the constituency. And so this is what I would pledge as the MP for West Derby; to forego half the salary of an MP until real movement has been achieved in average incomes in the constituency - it's no more than a gesture, but this way I could make that challenge personal.

It is on the fight against poverty that I want to be judged as an MP and I hope Liverpool West Derby Labour party will take me up on this challenge.

Source: Comment is free (http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/alex_hilton/2007/07/the_merseyside_breadline.html)

One to keep an eye on is Mr Hilton.

well at least hes put his point across, that he wants to run for west Derby, but, well, since when did government have any say over massive corporate companys? and raising the minimum wage wasnt that done by this government anyway and wasnt the knock on effect that alot of small business's could no longer afford to pay out these wages? and, well, some of the corporates just source employment in another country if the wages are set too high, so you see a vicious circle. This will never go away and regarding poverty and the bread line, well, have a walk around many of the wirral pubs and you will see where the money is going! Social re education is the only way forward.
kat
:)

One to keep an eye on is Mr Hilton.
Remember, some twenty years ago, it was Terry Fields pledge to be "a workers' MP on a worker's wage" that got him elected in Broadgreen.

and raising the minimum wage wasnt that done by this government anyway and wasnt the knock on effect that alot of small business's could no longer afford to pay out these wages?

The NMW has had little impact on jobs or profits tho' has resulted in some change to pay differentials.

What Hilton is suggesting is a variation on the same theme that we have heard since the 70s. In other words:

For a community to turn itself around it needs to


Skill itself up
Tidy itself up
Have a range of local amenities so people can get what they need on their local high street, and don't develop the bad habit of running their own area down.

Sort out local drugs problems
Provide facilities for young people to keep them off the street
Massively reduce benefits dependency
ETC


If this is obvious - why hasn't it happened?

What needs to happen urgently is the fact that bosses are paying foreign workers less. Unions are not against foreigners working here, obviously there is the free movement of people within Europe and their right to work anywhere but will bosses be so keen to have them if they were paying them the same wage as the indigenous population. This does not make some racist but there has to be a level playing field otherwise it's racism in reverse.

What needs to happen urgently is the fact that bosses are paying foreign workers less. Unions are not against foreigners working here, obviously there is the free movement of people within Europe and their right to work anywhere but will bosses be so keen to have them if they were paying them the same wage as the indigenous population. This does not make some racist but there has to be a level playing field otherwise it's racism in reverse.
You're right Ged. The recent influx of workers from Eastern Europe, in particular, is keeping down wages. Unfortunately this is most affecting areas that have traditionally been difficult for the trade unions to organize in, such as the building, hospitality and agricultural sectors. Government action is required on this. Even their own advisors are telling them so.

See, for example, http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23391004-details/British+workers+priced+out+by+wave+of+low-paid+migrants/article.do

>The NMW has had little impact on jobs or profits

I disagree, and know personally that many companys have suffered as a result of the national minimum wage which this government set. Many small business cannot afford to employ perhaps on a full time bases, and certainly the amusment industry has suffered a great deal.
I think the minimum wage is a good idea but over seas companys look for the best deal they can get when setting up business's and, this is where the issue becomes problematic. Alot of the big british industrys have gone, in part perhaps due to the conservatives, ie, coal, steel, ship building, oil, but, would they have gone anyway ?as we move into a global moving industry and work force? Thats why this up beat tempo about Liverpool is so important, if the city and its people feel more positive about the place they live in, perhaps, and just perhaps more industry will wish to invest here. We have had years of negative news years of being put down, now investment is creaping back, which means more jobs, I beleive that their is to be massive Health funding in the area too.
kat:)

>The NMW has had little impact on jobs or profits

I disagree

See, for example, 'The Impact of the National Minimum Wage' (2006) by the Institute for Employment Studies here (http://www.lowpay.gov.uk/lowpay/research/pdf/0394_lpc_final_layout.pdf) or just Google it and you'll find others. It is a change that has been well monitored across the political spectrum. The original forecasts of massive job losses, etc. have proved unfounded.

Howie, I find it quiet funny that you post up a governemt dti pdf file *Rofl*!
I know from personal experience of people in business that contrary to that government spin, small business and indeed the amusment industry have suffered a great deal.
kat:)

So what do you suggest? That employers profit from paying subsistence wages that we supplement thru' the benefit system. I can think of better uses for my taxes.

Howie,
you will find its a global issue, like the global movement of industry. There will never be a fix simply because, I am sure you will agree the world is in a state of flux. If industry cant get a good deal in the uK then they simply invest in india, or china or some other third world is there a solution? yes but unrealistic one, dont buy products produced cheaply in third world countrys. Sadly today though, everyone looks for the best bang for their buck (and I am sure you have heard that saying before). I know why things happen, I and I am sure many others (including governements) dont know the answer. But lets not forget many other countrys try to keep the wages down, and by doing so attracts investment which again is a sad but true fact.One possible answer, would be if we could bring third world countrys up to a decent standard of living, thus bringing about a more level playing field?
kat
:)

Economic markets are not like the weather. They are social constructs. The problem is that we have made such a p!ss awful job with them - take Europe for example. Remember all the strict economic criteria that countries were going to have to meet before gaining membership (to provide a level playing field) and then look at what actually happened.

Howie, I think you will find it is, just look at the stock exchange always in a state of flux. As more countrys define standards either brought about through peer pressure (the voice of the people) or in some cases governments we slowly strangle ourselfs against those that do not impose standards. Flux=Change.
kat:)

Economies maybe complex but we do have more control over them than the weather.

Economies maybe complex but we do have more control over them than the weather.

At least the weather doesn't have vested interest groups that present their own construction of economic reality as if it's the only one in town. :snf (41):

At least the weather doesn't have vested interest groups that present their own construction of economic reality as if it's the only one in town. :snf (41):

That's us told eh Jericho! I think we're moving from economics to politics now. Anyway wasn't this thread about poverty in Liverpool? :rolleyes:

CAPITAL of Culture and millions of pounds of investment have failed to see Merseyside rise in the prosperity ranks, a new survey has shown. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/08/06/investment-fails-to-lift-merseyside-s-prosperity-64375-19576096/)

It is important to remember that the regeneration that Liverpool is currently going through is only the begining. Liverpool suffered decades of decline and it's going to take alot longer than 5 years for us to catch up with other cities. Things can and will only get better.:PDT11

Shops and tourist industry jobs are both minimum wage.

LIVERPOOL was last night set a target of creating 74,000 jobs in the next decade to catch up with neighbours Manchester.

The challenge the city faces is to increase job creation by 5% a year until 2017, in order to reach the 300,000 employment mark.

Business Liverpool, one of the city’s quangos charged with promoting investment, says the number of jobs has only increased by 1.4% annually over the past five years.

Chief executive Mike Taylor last night admitted it was a “tall order” to increase the number of jobs by around a third, from its current base of 220,000. But the city’s economic development leader, Cllr Flo Clucas, said it was vital the gap was bridged if Liverpool was to become “the global city that we are in name, in economic performance”.

No matter how many jobs are created, there is still a hardcore group of benefit scroungers who will never apply for these positions, which will then to outsiders who are 'stealing our jobs'.

... The challenge the city faces is to increase job creation by 5% a year until 2017, in order to reach the 300,000 employment mark. ...
Residential housing is booming, the population is greying, it's needs are shifting from those of raising families to maintaining health and lifestyle.

This should mean a big growth in service industry. The issue with service industries is that their margins are thin, they cannot bear more than an absolute minimum of bureaucratic overhead or red tape. They need "Good Samaritan" protections.

....to catch up with neighbours Manchester.

@The report (not at any member): That's the bit that that lost my attention when I read it elsewhere.

Liverpool is a different city to Manchester. Its economy and industry is different and always has been. E.G., Liverpool has a much larger tourist industry. Liverpool does not go into a, keep the same figures as Manchester race.

Liverpool could say Manchester should increase its tourist industry, and then point to incompetence what it can't......as there is little to see there.

As been mentioned, Liverpool is becoming a grey person city. Many exiled Liverpudlians are returning to live in the smart flats around the centre and docks. Then look at the bank accounts of the people and Liverpool will be richer per capita. Then look at the income (salary - pension) and Liverpool will probably be richer there too.

ONE of the biggest airlines flying out of Liverpool John Lennon Airport has been responsible for more than £500m being injected into the local economy, it was revealed last night. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/10/23/easyjet-has-put-500m-into-merseyside-economy-64375-19992848/)

No matter how many jobs are created, there is still a hardcore group of benefit scroungers who will never apply for these positions, which will then to outsiders who are 'stealing our jobs'.

That's too easy a cop out is that. The system needs to be that benefits will be stopped if this hardcore group are so work shy. Thatcher manufactured unemployment figures by creating the disability living allowance and a lot of people were shifted into that and subsequent documentaries have shown that some doctors were intimidated into issueing repeat prescriptions for those who could, but chose not to work and also some doctors saw the benefits in just re-issueing these repeat prescriptions. Re-start schemes were then introduced to retrain people who were seen as long term unemployed and benefits were supposed to be stopped if you continually refused to go on these or attempt to find work, but again, a system that can be diddled if you can prove you've written away for jobs.

There are still plenty of able and trained people though who do try to get work and who have been bypassed due to cheap foreign labour and a recent Phillips extra about the Arriva bus Co. applying overseas for Polish workers without even attempting to use the local job centre was the focus of attention. On the phone-in last week during the postal strike, a chap rang in to say the bosses had threatened the casual Polish workforce with a letter written in Polish to state that they 'had to' come into work - therefore undermining the dispute whether you agreed with it or not.

No matter how many jobs are created, there is still a hardcore group of benefit scroungers who will never apply for these positions, which will then to outsiders who are 'stealing our jobs'.

Are you referring to foreign people, or just people from outside the city? Just find it a strange comment to make.

I think Shapers' point is that foreigners (Polish, for example) are happy to work where lots of locals are happier to claim benefits. I'm lost as to why these people can come from a different country and find work, but those born here have such difficulties.

I think Shapers' point is that foreigners (Polish, for example) are happy to work where lots of locals are happier to claim benefits. I'm lost as to why these people can come from a different country and find work, but those born here have such difficulties.

I suppose if you know the system well enough it pays not to work. Not that I would know. Since leaving school in 1985 I have never claimed any sort of benefit and I don't include being on a YTS either.

I'll tell you why Snappel and it's not rocket science. Bosses pay them less than the minimum or put them on short term contracts or casual labour. If they had to pay them the indigenous going rate - would they employ them then? No is the answer. The only way to make it a level playing field (which is what the unions want) is to not exploit or discriminate against the foreign workers but if made to pay them the same, the bosses would soon resort to employing locals who they haven't got a language barrier with and in the case of Arriva - haven't got to train up on routes etc. It's cheap labour that's all but the foreigners aren't complaining because it's still more than double than they'd get at home where maybe they should be to buoy up their own economies and they also enjoy NHS/ credit benefits etc.

I know Liverpool was partly built on immigration and we're cosmopolitan but you cannot compare like for like with what's happened recently when lots of countries have joined the EU and now have the free movement of people within member states. Remember - those leaving our shores have money so there's an imbalance that will surely become more apparent as time goes on.

I think Shapers' point is that foreigners (Polish, for example) are happy to work where lots of locals are happier to claim benefits. I'm lost as to why these people can come from a different country and find work, but those born here have such difficulties.

Many of them are on a mission. They live cheaply in rooms, or many to a room, so low outgoings, and will work for less as when they convert to their own currency they are earning a fortune. It is not worth the locals working for what they work for.

I suppose if you know the system well enough it pays not to work.

If it was so easy we would all be doing it. The point is, it is not.

If it was so easy we would all be doing it. The point is, it is not.

Even if it was easy, squire, I wouldn't do so out of pride. I can't answer for your goodself of course.

:)

Even if it was easy, squire, I wouldn't do so out of pride. I can't answer for your goodself of course.

:)

You seem to think anyone if they want to can live the life of luxury off the state at will. Not so.

Are you referring to foreign people, or just people from outside the city? Just find it a strange comment to make.

Not a strange comment at all. A good few Idle scroungers who never work always blame 'outsiders' whether be Foriegners or non Scousers for 'stealing
our jobs'. Whether it be Polish, Philipinos, Indians or any flavour of the year target. What it boils down to is they are happy to have lie ins while the Giros pile up, getting there rent and Council tax paid instead of working for a living.

Perhaps the most telling sign of the true state of Liverpool's economy is the number of empty office buildings old and new ( cf Unity) that adorn our city. Liverpool was built on trade and its spin offs such as insurance, banking etc. We are now in the post industrial age so office work is all the more important. When businesses are fighting to occupy office space, then can it be said that Liverpool's economy is booming. The current "boom" is based mainly on speculative building of buy- to -let flats and of course more shop sales space employing low paid workers.

Perhaps the most telling sign of the true state of Liverpool's economy is the number of empty office buildings old and new ( cf Unity) that adorn our city. Liverpool was built on trade and its spin offs such as insurance, banking etc. We are now in the post industrial age so office work is all the more important. When businesses are fighting to occupy office space, then can it be said that Liverpool's economy is booming. The current "boom" is based mainly on speculative building of buy- to -let flats and of course more shop sales space employing low paid workers.


Speculators do not build these blocks for no reason. They expect Liverpool to come on line big time. The Central Docks haven't even been started yet. Wait until the Shanghai Tower is built and others around it, the activity will increase. Foreign companies will re-locate their UK/European headquarters to Liverpool - a few have - and those fresh to Europe/UK will favour Liverpool for many reasons. The Japanese will love the easy access to four of the world's finest golf courses.

Don't complain about empty new buildings and a plethora of new buildings to come. Someone will buy or fill them sooner or later.

Speculators do not build these blocks for no reason. They expect Liverpool to come on line big time. The Central Docks haven't even been started yet. Wait until the Shanghai Tower is built and others around it, the activity will increase. Foreign companies will re-locate their UK/European headquarters to Liverpool - a few have - and those fresh to Europe/UK will favour Liverpool for many reasons. The Japanese will love the easy access to four of the world's finest golf courses.

Don't complain about empty new buildings and a plethora of new buildings to come. Someone will buy or fill them sooner or later.

I'm not a natural complainer and I wasn't complaining !!! Just making an observation that Liverpool has a long way to go business wise before its economy can be said to be booming. This is clearly shown by the current plethora of empty office space available in the city. Let's hope your predictions about growth come to fruition. Perhaps then the city will begin to regain the 400,000 or so people that have left over the last 50 years or so.

I'm not a natural complainer and I wasn't complaining !!! Just making an observation that Liverpool has a long way to go business wise before its economy can be said to be booming. This is clearly shown by the current plethora of empty office space available in the city. Let's hope your predictions about growth come to fruition. Perhaps then the city will begin to regain the 400,000 or so people that have left over the last 50 years or so.

The construction aspect is booming that is for sure and regeneration is clearly there. Once buildings are built they will come. The infrastructure is there so they come. A lot of work still has to be done. Hopefully foreign companies come rather than London based who would pull out at a moments notice. Or better, home grown companies.

Many of those people moved to the surrounding towns, so the conurbation never really lost them. All Knowlsey should be incorporated into Liverpool, as well as Bootle and Crosby. Then the Evertonians would not complain about Everton being outside the city. Merseyside is around 1.5 million people.

What is needed is a city state like Hamburg, incorporating Knowsley, Bootle up to Formby point, Birkenhead, Wallasey, Bebington and Bromborough. All in one city state.

WORLD reaction to Liverpool’s year- long reign as European Capital of Culture will play a crucial part in determining the city’s fortunes for years to come. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/11/02/capital-of-culture-the-world-will-decide-on-the-city-s-fortunes-64375-20048547/)

5,000 jobs to be created and marketed to Liverpool people by the opening of the Paradise Street Development (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2172&page=22). Jobs like security, cleaning, shop/ retail work etc...

Recruitment begins very soon.

I'm a bit gloomy today given the bad news that Roll's Royce are to close in Netherton.

I'm a bit gloomy today given the bad news that Roll's Royce are to close in Netherton.

Sadly that has been on the cards for some time though, Libertarian.

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

Liverpool lags behind despite massive handouts
Nov 8 2007
by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

LIVERPOOL and other big cities receiving vast pots of regeneration money to help catch up with rich towns are instead falling further behind, a new study revealed yesterday.

Researchers from Policy Exchange made a detailed study of regeneration funding given to Liverpool and other big urban sprawl cities.

The aim of the cash handouts was to bring the cities into line with the national average of economic wealth.

The study found cities such as Liverpool, which have received three-quarters or more of funding since 1994, are failing to catch up with more successful places.

Liverpool had the highest number of citizens – 25.6% – with no formal qualifications in a list of 25 major towns and cities. Unemployment in Liverpool, at 9.2% was also the highest against an average 4.3%, while life expectancy at 75.8 years was the second lowest.

It claims that in last decade, over £30bn has been spent on 14 difference core policy initiatives.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/11/08/liverpool-lags-behind-despite-massive-handouts-64375-20078758/)

Mersey workers earn less than the national average
Nov 24 2007
by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

AVERAGE annual pay rates across Merseyside are thousands of pounds lower than the UK level, a report by GMB - Britain's General Union (http://www.gmb.org.uk/) revealed yesterday.

The UK average is £29,999, and only Manchester and Warrington were higher, the study shows.

In all of Mersside’s six districts, pay levels were lower, with Halton the highest at £27,832, followed by Knowsley at £27,667.

Liverpool followed at £27,630, while earnings in St Helens averaged £25,929, or 86% of the UK level.

Wirral workers earn £25,289, or 84% of the national level, with Sefton the lowest locally at £24,956, or 83%.

Manchester men and women on average pick up a yearly wage of £32,988, or 110% of the UK figure, with Warrington people earning 104%, or £31,171.

Number crunchers at the GMB say the average North West worker earns £4,128 less than the more affluent South East and £18,000 less than the average Londoner.

Paul McCarthy, GMB regional secretary for the North West, said last night: “Our analysis shows that parts of the region have neither managed yet to replace the well-paid, highly-skilled manufacturing jobs that were lost, nor managed to develop new well- paid, highly-skilled services jobs.”

The union says that in order for a region to climb the pay league table, it has to make more effective use of its human talent.

A GMB spokesman said: “This analysis shows how much has to be done to achieve a fairer distribution of the benefits of economic development.”

As expected London tops the pay league table with an average gross pay of £45,274, or 151% of the average national wage.

There are 48 places in the UK and 27 places where earnings are less than 80% of the UK average. Bottom is the Isle of Anglesey on £21,564, 72% of UK average.

The pay league tables, compiled by the government’s Office of National Statistics, comes just days after a report revealing the gender pay gap has fallen to its lowest value since records began. The gap between women’s median hourly pay and men’s is now 12.6%, compared with a gap of 12.8%.

The largest difference between the pay of men and women is in the South East region, where women’s median pay was 15.9% less than men’s, showing a decrease on the comparable figure of 17.5% for 2006.

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/11/24/mersey-workers-earn-less-than-the-national-average-64375-20154176/)

Mersey workers earn less than the national average
Nov 24 2007
by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

AVERAGE annual pay rates across Merseyside are thousands of pounds lower than the UK level, a report by GMB - Britain's General Union (http://www.gmb.org.uk/) revealed yesterday.

The UK average is £29,999, and only Manchester and Warrington were higher, the study shows.

In all of Mersside’s six districts, pay levels were lower, with Halton the highest at £27,832, followed by Knowsley at £27,667.

Liverpool followed at £27,630, while earnings in St Helens averaged £25,929, or 86% of the UK level.

One wonders how the Union poh-bahs come by these average wage figures. I certainly would be over the moon with the Liverpool average!!

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

One wonders how the Union poh-bahs come by these average wage figures. I certainly would be over the moon with the Liverpool average!!

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

They are from an analysis of data produced by the Office for National Statistics (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/) (ONS). And yes Dave I would be more than happy with the Liverpool average wage also. Doesn't that tell you something about the gap between the rich and poor in this city? - it's wide and getting wider! :disgust:

@Howie and ADW, regarding the jobs u 2 do, aren't they paid similar up and down the country (those that do similar jobs to yourselves in other cities)?

@Howie and ADW, regarding the jobs u 2 do, aren't they paid similar up and down the country (those that do similar jobs to yourselves in other cities)?

I believe that my rate of pay in the business I work is on the pretty poor level. Of course I could leave, but I work with good men and it would be sad to leave after working there since I left school - 21 years ago.

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

@Howie and ADW, regarding the jobs u 2 do, aren't they paid similar up and down the country (those that do similar jobs to yourselves in other cities)?
No Kev, that is not the case in the Higher Education sector. Each institution negotiates it's own pay arrangements. They are not the same for the 4 HEIs within Liverpool, let alone between different areas of the country.

Cheers Howie/ ADW. So what does Liverpool lack or need to bridge this gap that isn't an issue in so many other towns and cities in England?

Cheers Howie/ ADW. So what does Liverpool lack or need to bridge this gap that isn't an issue in so many other towns and cities in England?
My view is that it is the growing inequality in this city that needs to be addressed. It is generally agreed that Liverpool now has the greatest income inequality in the UK and it is my view also that this underlies many of our social problems here.

North-South divide is closing claim campaigners
Nov 26 2007
by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

A REVIVAL of Merseyside’s economy, which substantially closes the productivity gap with the South, could become a reality within 20 years, according to new research.

The Institute for Public Policy Research North (IPPR North) said Government needs to develop a unified national spatial planning strategy and that the Northern regions must work together on a joint plan for the whole of the North.

It comes on the eve of the regeneration group Northern Way summit in Gateshead tomorrow where the £30bn output gap between the North and the South will be discussed.

On Friday, the world's leading economic policy body, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), completed a week-long visit to the North with Northern Way to examine current strategies to encourage innovation.

The OECD's findings will inform an in-depth study into what the barriers and opportunities are to innovation in the North and how new ideas can be translated into economic success.

The IPPR North says stronger policies are needed to improve the “drivers” of productivity, rather than focusing almost on measuring the performance gap between regions.

But the report also argues that this alone will not close the prosperity gap between the North and more prosperous regions.

The report argues that better rail links between Northern regions and between the North and the South are an economic and environmental priority.

Instead of focusing on reducing the relative size of the public sector, it should be seen as an engine for economic growth, with more emphasis placed on supporting the expansion of the private sector, which the report argues is currently too small.

The report also argues for a simplified benefits system with a flat rate for those out of work combined with a well-resourced, personalised approach to employment support policy.

The report says the focus should be on those aged over 50 and on re-skilling people out of work.

Sue Stirling, Director of IPPR North, said: “The North desperately needs a coherent spatial policy so that leaders across the three Northern regions can pull together a coherent plan which addresses the North’s weak transport links.

“We need to focus on the policies that will drive economic growth: employment, skills, enterprise and transport and the public sector.

“The North needs a strong public and private sector if it is to tackle deep-seated problems like high levels of unemployment and child poverty.”

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/11/26/north-south-divide-is-closing-claim-campaigners-64375-20160745/)

Lots of money being invested in regeneration but how well is it spent?

Attended a tourism destination conference about two years ago, in Chester, and wasn't very encouraged. Lots of people there who are given money to invest in regeneration (Northwest Development Agency et al) and it was virually an exercise in communal back slapping. All sorts of different agencies were bigging themselves up about what they were achieving.

I was staying in a local B&B and over breakfast had a chat with the owner who was bemoaning lack of investment in tourism, which had a knock-on effect for his business - this happened when he discovered that I was a lecturer in tourism. When I was at the conference later I was going through the delegate list when I noticed that only two delegates were actually from industry. Everybody else was either from a government agency - plus 3 academics like myself.

When questions were invited I asked why none of the people supposedly benefitting from all the investment being deployed by the assembled glitterati were actually present to hear what a good job was being done for them (I couched it in slightly more diplomatic terms). The first person to respond was clearly quite indignant and said such people had no place at such a conference. The cynical amongst us might presume that was because those from industry might not have the same rosy perspective on what was being done from them.

A slightly sharper response I got was that the conference was open to everybody and those from industry were welcome to attend. Yes - but did they know it was taking place? Quite easy to deselect unwanted delegates by use of careful marketing/advertising.

Additionally, the tourism industry consists mostly of small businesses. How many of them can afford £500 and a day away from work in order to attend a one-day conference?

So, forget all figures you see on the value of inward investment - particularly government and EU money. How effectively is it actually being spent?

As Richard Hewison observed when Liverpool were given the Garden Festival (but with less notice than required to get all the associated funding in place for long term benefit). 'The government has recognised the difficulties being faced on Merseyside had has taken steps to improve matters. The answer, apparently, is trees'.

Not quite a word for word quote but it gets the essence across.

THE sight of all the physical regeneration and construction work that has taken place in Liverpool in the past few years would lead most observers to think that the economy of the Merseyside sub-region was making huge progress.

There is no doubt that great progress has been made in the city centre, but the true scale of the challenge Merseyside’s economy still faces was thrown into sharp focus yesterday by the latest regional economic data published by the Office for National Statistics.

These figures show that, far from making huge strides to catch up with the rest of the UK, the local economy has slipped further behind.

Total UK output grew at a rate of 4.1% in 2005. The equivalent figure for Merseyside was 2.7%, one of the lowest of any of the 37 UK sub-regions.

The figures are all the more disappointing because the same data for recent past years had suggested a relative improvement locally.

Measured on a per capita basis, the only places that we have regularly beaten are three remote, rural regions – Cornwall, the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, and West Wales. But even that has changed. The Highlands have now overtaken us. How can that be?

Similar urban conurbations such as Manchester and Leeds enjoy economic output per capita that is 33% higher than Merseyside’s figure.

These figures represent a reality check for us all.

The broad problems can be readily identified.

The city centre, with all of its development, has been doing well and will continue to do so, especially once the new shops at Liverpool One have opened for business.

The problem areas are north Liverpool and south Sefton, with some of the poorest council wards in Britain.

Merseyside has enjoyed years of economic support from Brussels, yet the fact that our growth is still slower than most of the rest of Britain reflects the depth of the social problems that parts of our region face.

Daily Post

THE one-time “Minister for Merseyside” said he cannot believe what he sees when he visits Liverpool, compared with the “absolutely hopeless” situation he found in the early 1980s. Read (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/12/27/renaissance-since-80s-100252-20288502/)

To be honest, I was never clear on Liverpool's grand plan for the Capital of Culture. I see a lot of superficial improvements to the city. Massive shopping centres being built but how is that actually going to benefit the people? OK, there is going to be more jobs available but like Shaper has already pointed out what is going to make the local population more competitive in the face of cheap foreign labour force? If there are more people fighting for more jobs then what is the difference? And who is going to be spending money in Liverpool One shopping complex? As Taffy has already suggested, the emptied office block would suggests an existing tired economy but instead of establishing plans to reinvigorate primary trades and businesses to fill in the space, the government has gone ahead to build even more offices and apartments. Erm, what was that about? I think everyone are just bagging on the hope that truck loads of rich professionals will come out of nowhere and set up bases in the area. And why would they choose Liverpool over other cities which have established industries and trades. All this hype about the Capital of Culture would no doubt, jack up the price of properties beyond any justifiable level. Beneath all the colour and noise, where is the substance? Have the scousers being made more educated, competitive and skilled? How much of the Capital of Cultures money have been spend to increase social awareness, a sense of community and personal well-being of the residents of Liverpool? Even now there are complaints of the locals not really benefiting from the project. Creative and admin positions were outsourced while foreign labour came in to fill gaps in the construction. What is going to change comes 2008?

Even now there are complaints of the locals not really benefiting from the project.


Well it could be abandoned and no one benefits. What do they want? Handouts? The jobs are there, the locals are no good at them so they are given to others.


Creative and admin positions were outsourced while foreign labour came in to fill gaps in the construction. What is going to change comes 2008?


Liverpool has the highest percentage of people with no qualifications whatsoever in the country. Skilled labour comes in from outside because the locals have no ambition.

As far as I can see the only people that will turn the city around will be outsiders or exiles returning. Putting in the infrastructure to promote that is wise.

Well it could be abandoned and no one benefits. What do they want? Handouts? The jobs are there, the locals are no good at them so they are given to others.

Liverpool has the highest percentage of people with no qualifications whatsoever in the country. Skilled labour comes in from outside because the locals have no ambition.

As far as I can see the only people that will turn the city around will be outsiders or exiles returning. Putting in the infrastructure to promote that is wise.

Call me foolishly optimistic but I believe given the right opportunity and encouragement, everyone can fulfil their full potential. And that would start with improving the education system and injecting funding directing into the community, where people actually live, rather than in the middle of the city centre. People need to be given a sense of self-worth and that should be in form of improved civil structures like parks, sport centres etc. Infrastructures to promote incoming investment is necessary but there seems to be a gross imbalance looking at Liverpool as a whole.

Call me foolishly optimistic but I believe given the right opportunity and encouragement, everyone can fulfil their full potential. And that would start with improving the education system and injecting funding directing into the community, where people actually live, rather than in the middle of the city centre. People need to be given a sense of self-worth and that should be in form of improved civil structures like parks, sport centres etc. Infrastructures to promote incoming investment is necessary but there seems to be a gross imbalance looking at Liverpool as a whole.

"People need to be given a sense of self-worth". The education/training system is there, they can use it - free!!!!!. Adult people are the drain. They don't want to be educated/trained. They want things to be given to them and not go out and get it.

These unemployables will be a huge drain on the city for decades to come.

Immigrants, be they from poland or skelmersdale grow an economy in a city that "wants" to grow, every immigrant needs food, power, clothes , appliances , education, healthcare , transport , etc, this money is put directly into the local economy and it grows, it's when the local people hiding on the unemployment benefit and swinging the lead on the invalidity soaking up the excess money that would and should be available to help the local community then the local economy suffers. I am an immigrant and know exactly how it works, you don't get accepted into this country if you are deemed to be a drain on the countries economy, it's the bludgers and dead heads who hold economies back

Some of our local workforce don't want work, educating and training, I agree, however, their are people in our poorer communities who, given the chance would grasp the opportunities if they were available. Some people know no different and the moment they are born are faced with many many barriers in their way, not helped by the huge amount of Government help and handouts they receive that allows them to live comfortably without working. The incentive to 'get out' of poorer situations has gone.

MERSEYSIDE is facing a potential workforce crisis in the future unless it starts attracting immigrants from countries other than Poland. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/12/28/north-west-running-out-of-polish-workers-64375-20292345/)

We have a layer of people who are the Thatcher children. They were unemployed during her term and will remain so. The state has a responsibility for this, for letting them down and creating this tier of unemployable people who have never had the work ethic from day one as there was no work whatsoever. No one employs anyone who has hardly had a job in his life, so it's a downward spiral for them.

There should a be some sort of forced training for these people. I disagree that state aid gives them a comfortable life.

We have a layer of people who are the Thatcher children. They were unemployed during her term and will remain so. The state has a responsibility for this, for letting them down and creating this tier of unemployable people who have never had the work ethic from day one as there was no work whatsoever. No one employs anyone who has hardly had a job in his life, so it's a downward spiral for them.

Agreed.

There should a be some sort of forced training for these people. I disagree that state aid gives them a comfortable life.

The lifestyle they lead, is comfortable for them. If it wasn't then people wouldn't sustain a longterm lifestyle on benefits. Otherwise they wouldn't be on benefits would they?

This thread looks like it's going the way to say that all people on benefits are, at the least, workshy.
Another thing that annoys me is Scousers themselves are, yet again, saying that Scousers are the main culprits.
I despair, sometimes.

This thread looks like it's going the way to say that all people on benefits are, at the least, workshy.

Well, I can say those words never came out of my mouth (or onto my keyboard :PDT10 ) at-all Phil.

Well, I can say those words never came out of my mouth (or onto my keyboard :PDT10 ) at-all Phil.

Hoping to nip it in the bud, Kev. :PDT10 :)
It's just that the mention of the word "Benefits" sometimes brings out the worst in some people who have well-paid jobs.
JobSeeker's allowance, for instance, is not enough to live on comfortably, nor is it designed to be.

The lifestyle they lead, is comfortable for them. If it wasn't then people wouldn't sustain a longterm lifestyle on benefits. Otherwise they wouldn't be on benefits would they?

Many have no choice.

This thread looks like it's going the way to say that all people on benefits are, at the least, workshy.
Another thing that annoys me is Scousers themselves are, yet again, saying that Scousers are the main culprits.
I despair, sometimes.

What I am saying is that Thatcher was the main culprit. This unemployable layer of people is in every town and city over the country - the wasted generation. The point relating to Liverpool is how to get them moving and looking after themselves. Birmingham's problem with them is their problem.

Handouts is not the way. Sending them training course brochures is not either. It has to be something much harder than that to get them moving ...and employers must employ them, the prime point.

They are a substantial amount of people in the city that can weigh the city down. I am not pointing fingers and harshly blaming them, it is understanding why and how and how to solve, then they benefit too.

Hoping to nip it in the bud, Kev. :PDT10 :)
It's just that the mention of the word "Benefits" sometimes brings out the worst in some people who have well-paid jobs.
JobSeeker's allowance, for instance, is not enough to live on comfortably, nor is it designed to be.

Yep. I agree.

Shocking rise in levels of debt in Liverpool
Dec 29 2007
by Vicky Anderson, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolpost/dec2007/0/2/2551896B-CC2B-9C6C-D7A6A59A7BBDEDA6.jpg

DEBT advisors in Liverpool are being inundated with clients as more and more people in the city face crippling financial problems.

Those contacting experts regarding credit problems and mortgage arrears are, on average, in almost three times more debt than they were five years ago.

Advisors, who fear a serious rise in house repossessions in 2008, have seen debt levels on credit cards alone double from around an average £25,000 in 2002 to more than £50,000 this year.

As tills across the region continued to buzz with sales activity yesterday, Liverpool Specialist Advice Service, a consortium of the city’s Citizens Advice Bureaux, said it was now booked solid with people wanting debt advice at a time of year when they are usually considerably quieter. It is especially concerned for what the New Year will bring for those with money worries.

Rachel Howley, of LSAS, said: “There is a huge demand for our service at the moment and that is quite unusual.

“This consortium has been going for nine years, and around this time of year we always see a lull, usually between the end of November until the end of January.

“This year that hasn’t happened and we are fully booked up until mid-January. We’re seeing a huge increase across the whole city.”

LSAS has 22 debt advisors throughout the city and on average deals with 6,000 clients a year.

Ms Howley added: “Five years ago, the average person was coming to us with credit card debts of £25,000, and that has at least doubled – some people are in excess of £60,000 in debt just on credit alone. In addition to that, we are seeing more and more clients with mortgage arrears, where the market makes people really stretch themselves. We are expecting more repossessions in the New Year.”

Nationally, latest figures show the average Briton owes £33,000.

Extra expenses across the holiday period could break the bank for those already struggling.

A family on an average income will have spent £564 on the trimmings on Christmas Day alone, not including presents.

John Binks, acting regional director for the Legal Services Commission North West region, said: “Any family needs to budget for expensive times like Christmas but for families who will really feel the pinch it is essential to get the right advice now.”

The LSC runs the Community Legal Advice helpline, which provides telephone and web advice.

Last January calls for debt help to the phone line doubled the calls logged for December.

It can be contacted on 0845 345 4345 or at www.communitylegaladvice.org.uk

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/12/29/shocking-rise-in-levels-of-debt-in-liverpool-64375-20295203/)

Britons 'put off work by benefits' (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/30071/Britons-put-off-work-by-benefits-)

Britons 'put off work by benefits' (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/30071/Britons-put-off-work-by-benefits-)

Surprise, surprise!
The Daily Express is having a go at the umemployed and immigrants, when the fact is the Minimum Wage is set too low.

Surprise, surprise!
The Daily Express is having a go at the umemployed and immigrants, when the fact is the Minimum Wage is set too low.

Exactly. The government does not throw money at people and the benefits are carefully calculated. The minimum wage is far too low. Immigrants do not come here to go on the dole. They come here to work and improve their lives.

THE ECHO Arena opens today - providing a £100m boost to the Merseyside economy in its first year.

The complex, which includes the BT Convention Centre, is expected to beat all cash targets, generating 40% more business than predicted in 2005.

Officials said both waterfront venues were already proving more popular than anticipated.

About £40m will be brought into Merseyside from gigs and performances at the ECHO Arena, including the MTV Europe Music Awards.

The other £60m will come from the money-spinning convention centre which will welcome big-spending delegates attending events such as the LibDem conference.

The influx of visitors to Kings Dock – previously a windswept car park – will benefit hotels, bars, restaurants and taxi drivers.

ACC chief executive Bob Prattey said: “The original targets set for the teams working for both the ECHO Arena and convention centre have been well and truly smashed already for 2008.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolecho/jan2008/9/0/44569991-D30A-9BFF-059549AADED4A6AF.jpg

“In both the ECHO Arena and convention centre we have taken about 40% more business than was first being forecast.

“That has had a knock-on effect on the economic impact of the facility which means we are now on course to deliver £100m of spending by visitors.

“That is fantastic news for everyone, from restaurants and hotels to cab drivers, and is a real testament to just how much people want to come and visit the city in 2008.”

More than 8,500 Capital of Culture ambassadors and volunteers were invited to tonight’s event at Kings Dock for a sneak preview of the venue before its official opening on Saturday January 12.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolecho/jan2008/6/2/4454B39B-F7D0-1BD0-E22317C00B038F84.jpg

It is the first of more than 100 performances already booked for the 10,600-seater ECHO Arena this year including Girls Aloud, the X-Factor tour and WWE Wrestlemania.

That total is topped by the convention centre where 160 organisations are booked in.

* ECHO comment: Welcome to ECHO Arena (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/views/our-view/2008/01/04/welcome-to-echo-arena-100252-20313151/)

THE ECHO Arena opens today - providing a £100m boost to the Merseyside economy in its first year.

The complex, which includes the BT Convention Centre, is expected to beat all cash targets, generating 40% more business than predicted in 2005.

Officials said both waterfront venues were already proving more popular than anticipated.

About £40m will be brought into Merseyside from gigs and performances at the ECHO Arena, including the MTV Europe Music Awards.

The other £60m will come from the money-spinning convention centre which will welcome big-spending delegates attending events such as the LibDem conference.

The influx of visitors to Kings Dock – previously a windswept car park – will benefit hotels, bars, restaurants and taxi drivers.

ACC chief executive Bob Prattey said: “The original targets set for the teams working for both the ECHO Arena and convention centre have been well and truly smashed already for 2008.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolecho/jan2008/9/0/44569991-D30A-9BFF-059549AADED4A6AF.jpg

“In both the ECHO Arena and convention centre we have taken about 40% more business than was first being forecast.

“That has had a knock-on effect on the economic impact of the facility which means we are now on course to deliver £100m of spending by visitors.

“That is fantastic news for everyone, from restaurants and hotels to cab drivers, and is a real testament to just how much people want to come and visit the city in 2008.”

More than 8,500 Capital of Culture ambassadors and volunteers were invited to tonight’s event at Kings Dock for a sneak preview of the venue before its official opening on Saturday January 12.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolecho/jan2008/6/2/4454B39B-F7D0-1BD0-E22317C00B038F84.jpg

It is the first of more than 100 performances already booked for the 10,600-seater ECHO Arena this year including Girls Aloud, the X-Factor tour and WWE Wrestlemania.

That total is topped by the convention centre where 160 organisations are booked in.

* ECHO comment: Welcome to ECHO Arena (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/views/our-view/2008/01/04/welcome-to-echo-arena-100252-20313151/)


Whats Harold Bishop from Neighbours doing sat to the left of Warren Bradley on that picture (as Warren sees it):shock:

Whilst googling something, I came across a forum where someone is saying Liverpool is the most deprived city in Britain and has the worst economy.

http://www.asuz39.dsl.pipex.com/liverpool/


Do others on here find it really that bad?

I think all people outside of Liverpool despise us Scousers. They hate everything about us. Jealousy is a terrible thing. How are you Ged? I,m one of the 6 Redos from 12 Gerard Cres. I bought the books off you in town by the site in Paradise St. Been working on the site corner Seel and Hanover St.s. Scottish firm, Dunes. Hate Scousers and Liverpool but will come down here to take our money. I didn,t last long there! Catch you later.

Whats Harold Bishop from Neighbours doing sat to the left of Warren Bradley on that picture (as Warren sees it):shock:

Perhaps he's going to replace that other Australian chap (Robin)? :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Whilst googling something, I came across a forum where someone is saying Liverpool is the most deprived city in Britain and has the worst economy.

http://www.asuz39.dsl.pipex.com/liverpool/

Do others on here find it really that bad?

Liverpool, inside the city limits, is predominately working class. More miiddle class Wallasey is a sleeper town for Liverpool and is tied to Liverpool's economy, yet is never included in these figures.

I believe Merseyside has a higher GDP than Dubai (look at the skyscrapers they have built!!!). Beware of selective or unrepresentative stats.

A real contender on the waterfront
By Gavin Stamp
Business reporter, BBC News, Liverpool


Staring at a huge pile of lumpen metal, you could be forgiven for thinking you were in the middle of a giant scrap merchant's yard.


The port has bounced back from the dark days of the 1970s

But the scene is actually the Port of Liverpool on the banks of the Mersey.

The scrap is just one of a wide range of goods - including steel, grain, whisky and clothes - which pass through its docks on a weekly basis.

Liverpool is the UK's sixth-largest port for freight and the fourth-largest for container traffic.

As the UK's main gateway for cargo trade with North America, its horizons are truly global. But it didn't always have the luxury of being so outward-looking.

Its very survival was in doubt for much of the 1970s and early 1980s as a wave of damaging strikes, on the top of profound economic and technological changes, crippled its business.

Bad old days

When the Royal Seaforth Dock was built in 1969, the port handled 29 million tons of cargo a year. Yet by 1983, this had shrunk to nine million.

Propped up by weekly government handouts, the port was - in the words of its now marketing director, Frank Robotham - facing an "abyss".


We don't have the luxury of people knocking on our door every day wanting to come to Liverpool. For us to get business, we have to go out and sell it

Frank Robotham, marketing director Peel Ports

That it emerged from that dark period intact was due as much to the strength and initiative of its management as the political support it received at both a local and national level.

Compromises on both sides ushered in a new, more constructive era of industrial relations which strove to put the needs of the port's customers at the heart of the business.

The legacy of the last outbreak of labour unrest in the mid-1990s was the introduction of flexible working practices, which Mr Robotham believes are now the envy of many rivals.

"The way we can allocate resources to vessels is based on their arrival, not based on how we set our working practices," he says of current shift patterns.

As well as buying shipping lines and investing in roll-on, roll-off capacity to boost its market presence, the port's recovery over the past 20 years was built around rebuilding and nurturing customer relationships.

Supporting industry

It started by trying to attract smaller, independent shipping lines, which it felt might be inclined to favour Liverpool.

In recent years, the port has become more aggressive, targeting firms within a 70-mile radius.

It seeks to convince them of the merits of using the Port of Liverpool, rather than incurring increased costs by transporting goods from the South Coast.


The onset of larger vessels is causing problems for many ports

"One thing we had to do is show that we could provide a service to industry in the North West to make it competitive," Mr Robotham says.

"I think we lost that connection in the 1970s, whereby people who were local to you didn't want to support you, because of what you were doing to yourselves."

Recent successes have included Cadbury's switching its cocoa imports - processed in North Wales - back to Liverpool after more than 10 years.

The stakes are high. The port knows that it has to outperform its main rivals - in terms of efficiency and cost - if it is to retain and win new business.

"We don't have the luxury of people knocking on our door every day wanting to come to Liverpool," Mr Robotham acknowledges.

"For us to get business, we have to go out and sell it. People could lose their job if we screw up. We always saw it from that perspective and we still do."

New dimensions

Seismic changes in the global shipping industry are now presenting Liverpool with a fresh commercial challenge.

For many years, the standard size of container vessels has been dictated by the width of the Panama Canal, the world's largest shipping thoroughfare.

But the Canal itself is now expanding and much larger "post-Panamax" ships, as they are known, are already a reality.

In response, the port is embarking on its largest expansion for 40 years, which will see it spend £90m on building another deep-sea container facility by 2011.


The lucrative Chinese market is currently beyond Liverpool's reach

Neither the port's customers nor its backers saw the status quo as an option.

Liverpool's 1930s entrance is built to "Panamax" dimensions, but rival ports such as Felixstowe and Southampton are already equipped to receive the larger vessels.

Liverpool's core North American market is also rapidly moving in that direction, with New York set to upgrade its facilities by 2010.

"If they had not secured this extension, there would have been a very serious question mark over its future as a deep sea port," says Ian Wray, chief planner at the Northwest Regional Development Agency.

"They had to get it to stay in the game."

Asian promise

There is already concern that the port is unable to cater for direct trade from China, India and other Asian markets, which have shipping lines using the larger vessels.

Not only is Asian trade four times the size of North America in volume terms, but it offers access to the riches of China and India, whose rapid industrialisation has poured cheap goods into Europe and sucked huge amounts of raw materials in the other direction.

"It is a bit of a frustration to us," Frank Robotham says, "because Liverpool has the oldest Chinese community in Europe, we are twinned with Shanghai, and the North West most probably consumes the second-largest volume of Chinese products outside London."

But the port will quickly win business after its expansion, he believes, with the number of Indian-owned firms operating in the vicinity offering "fantastic" opportunities.

"The advantage for any shipping company coming here would be that they have a far greater percentage of exports compared to running it through the South Coast ports."

The port's expansion is good news for manufacturers in North-west England. It is also likely to boost jobs in other maritime sectors, such as shipbroking and freight forwarding, which already support more than 25,000 jobs in Merseyside.

Staying British

In the global industry that is shipping, Liverpool is an increasingly rare phenomenon - a British-owned port.

The recent sale of P&O and Associated British Ports saw the likes of Southampton pass into foreign hands, while Felixstowe is owned by Hong Kong's Hutchison Whampoa.

The Port of Liverpool was bought in 2005 by Peel Holdings, which also owns the Manchester Ship Canal and Liverpool's John Lennon airport. It has since sold a minority stake to Germany's Deutsche Bank.

But despite these global connections, the port remains firmly rooted in the North West and, Ian Wray believes, its fortunes and those of the city will always be closely intertwined.

"The port has always been been a driver for recovery and growth in Liverpool."



:034::034::034::034::034:

Jobs at new shopping centre
Jan 14 2008
by Neil Hodgson, Liverpool Echo

A WEEK-long recruitment drive to fill thousands of jobs at the £1bn Liverpool One retail development starts today.

Outreach events, with recruitment body Shop For Jobs (http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Jobs_and_careers/Finding_work/shop_for_jobs/index.asp), will guarantee interviews for unemployed people across Merseyside at six different locations.

Liverpool One chief executive Joanna Jennings said: “We are looking for people who bring the skills that are important and who have pride in their city.”

Events taking place this week include: today, Toxteth Kuumba Imani (9am-12pm) and Toxteth town hall (1-4pm); Tues, the Empire theatre; Wed, Garston Urban Village; Thurs, Walton sports centre; Fri, Kensington Life Bank (all from 9am).

Source: Liverpool Echo (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/01/14/jobs-at-new-shopping-centre-100252-20347340/)

Hello 22tonyred, only just saw your posting. I'm ok mate, hope you are too, you'll have to get to see Subbo's film 'Gardens of Stone' you know, you'll love it - check my webby now and again for up coming dates, some not finalised yet.

A real contender on the waterfront
By Gavin Stamp Business reporter, BBC News, Liverpool ...
But the Canal itself is now expanding and much larger "post-Panamax" ships, as they are known, are already a reality.
In response, the port is embarking on its largest expansion for 40 years, which will see it spend £90m on building another deep-sea container facility by 2011.
...
But despite these global connections, the port remains firmly rooted in the North West and, Ian Wray believes, its fortunes and those of the city will always be closely intertwined. "The port has always been been a driver for recovery and growth in Liverpool."
Well, wonderful though the post-Panamax in-river terminal is, it set me wondering .... "What the heck do they do next when that runs out of capacity and they want an even bigger port for even bigger ships?".

Of course this isn't likely to happen until perhaps 2025 at the earliest, but still, what is the next step? And how does that fit in with oil-depletion and global-warming changes?

Well, actually, Liverpool will probably be less affected by global warming than most places. In fact if the Arctic opens up to shipping it may even benefit. The tidal range is so great that even if sea level rises significantly Liverpool will still cope. It seems to me the answer is another Seaport on the other side of the "river", across from Seaforth. Of course there's no land there right now, but it surely is ripe for reclamation out there beyond Fort Perch and the lighthouse. Perhaps an offshore lagoon to harness tidal power too. And building motorway and rail links out offshore from Bidston will not be too great a hurdle.

Yep, I would be surprised if the River Mersey of 2100 is not quite a bit longer at the seaward end than it is today.

Well, wonderful though the post-Panamax in-river terminal is, it set me wondering .... "What the heck do they do next when that runs out of capacity and they want an even bigger port for even bigger ships?".

Of course this isn't likely to happen until perhaps 2025 at the earliest, but still, what is the next step? And how does that fit in with oil-depletion and global-warming changes?

Well, actually, Liverpool will probably be less affected by global warming than most places. In fact if the Arctic opens up to shipping it may even benefit. The tidal range is so great that even if sea level rises significantly Liverpool will still cope. It seems to me the answer is another Seaport on the other side of the "river", across from Seaforth. Of course there's no land there right now, but it surely is ripe for reclamation out there beyond Fort Perch and the lighthouse. Perhaps an offshore lagoon to harness tidal power too. And building motorway and rail links out offshore from Bidston will not be too great a hurdle.

Yep, I would be surprised if the River Mersey of 2100 is not quite a bit longer at the seaward end than it is today.

The Mersey barrage from New Brighton will lock in the Mersey and all is solved.

The Mersey barrage from New Brighton will lock in the Mersey and all is solved.Well that would certainly be popular with the populace, because the leisure/pleasure benefits are enormous. Also with the ecologists too since it would allow active (controlled) management of river salinity upstream and hence the wildlife health.

But it is certain to find opposition from the Irish Ferries and the Stanlow who would each prefer the barrage to be sited upstream of Tranmere so their operations are not subjected to lock transit delays.

If I recall correctly (?) Peel is largely controlled by Manx money and so they can be expected to give undue weight to the convenience of the IOM service.

What's needed is for some locals (schools?) to make models and drawings of possible embodiments of a New Brighton located barrage and get them out in the public consciousness long before the siting decision (due in 2010 or 2011).

Liverpool is England's most deprived district, government figures show

Sara Gaines (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/saragaines)
Society Guardian (http://society.guardian.co.uk/), Wednesday April 30 2008

http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Society/Pix/pictures/2008/04/29/liver460.jpg
The Kirkdale area of Liverpool. Photograph: Don McPhee

Liverpool remains the most deprived district in England despite an influx of regeneration cash and a government drive to reduce inequality, official figures show.

New investment spurred by its status as European City of Culture has failed to boost local income or employment, according to the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG).

The city's deprivation score, using 2007 figures, has barely changed since the previous indices for multiple deprivation (IMD) showed it was bottom of the league in 2004.

Its population is poorly placed to benefit from investment and new jobs because skill levels are below average, according to consultants Local Futures, who analysed the figures for their deprivation barometer.

Liverpool council has initiated an outreach programme to point long-term unemployed people towards skills training, but a spokesman said it will be a while before that brings major benefits.

The city's lack of progress is mirrored across the country: 90% of the most disadvantaged neighbourhoods in 2004 remain so three years later.

That is a blow for Labour who vowed to tackle geographical inequality. In 2001 the government said its aim was "within 10 to 20 years, no one should be seriously disadvantaged by where they live".

Local Futures said that aim "will continue to seem out of reach" unless more innovative policies are developed to narrow the gaps in health, education, crime, worklessness, housing and liveability.

The government aims to more effectively target help to people without jobs through its new working neighbourhoods fund.

Local Futures said many other factors contribute to disadvantage and need to be tackled.

"Poverty of choice and aspiration is driven by school-level education, physical and mental health, and other aspects of social exclusion, which likewise need tailored support," their report stated.

The IMD show the highest deprivation is largely concentrated in the north-west, London and the north-east. It is also a problem in rural areas and around coastal towns including Great Yarmouth and Plymouth.

In rural areas, isolation and lack of access to public transport can compound problems.

Bottom-placed Liverpool had a range of problems to tackle, Local Futures said.

Despite being affordable compared to other areas, residents were not well placed to benefit as skill levels were well below the British median. The city also had a relatively high crime rate, low life expectancy and poor social cohesion.

Local Futures' report states: "As the city embarks on its year's reign as the European capital of culture, Liverpool appears at a crossroads.

"The title may provide the catalyst for change and the sustained regeneration needed to turn the city around; however it is vital that the new opportunities are equally shared among the residential population as among those commuting into and investing in the city from elsewhere."

The borough has other problems. The Audit Commission has highlighted concerns over the council's financial management.

A council spokesman said progress was being made. "Nobody wants to be labelled the most deprived. The capital of culture is about changing the perception of the city," he said.

"Although we are catching up – we are within a whisker of the national average for [pupils attaining] five GCSEs - other areas are not standing still so the bar is being raised all the time.

"Liverpool is one of the safest metropolitan cities. But where we suffer is we have whole generations of families who have never had anybody in work."

The council has initiated a range of programmes to tackle entrenched problems. They include Streets Ahead, where teams go door-to-door to point people towards training programmes.

The new convention centre is expected to bring in £100m business spending a year, he said, and council houses have just been transferred to a tenant-led management company which will spend £1m a week over the next few years bringing houses up to the decent homes standard.

Source: guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/apr/30/england.deprivation)

Interesting. The bar has been raised. So that must be progress. The measure the rate of change.

The bar has been raised.

Or educational standards have been lowered in the pursuit of targets. :slywink:

City 'deprived' in culture year

Liverpool is still the most deprived place in England despite attracting millions of pounds of investment, according to a new report.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44616000/jpg/_44616076_liverbuilding_freefoto226.jpg
An "action plan" has been outlined to
improve the city's health

The study was carried out by the Health is Wealth Commission set up by the University of Liverpool.

Researchers ranked Liverpool as the most deprived city region out of 354 towns and cities across England.

Their report said that while the city celebrates its culture year, many people struggle on state benefits.

Liverpool and its surrounding area, according to the study, has "an invisible army of people disconnected and cut off from the opportunities created on their own streets, with lives cut short through inequality and deprivation".

Regeneration benefit

The report has come from formal evidence taken by the commission for a year.

They have now put forward a number of radical solutions that they say will see the area become "a trailblazer in tackling poverty-related issues".

This "action plan" includes an attack on alcohol-related problems and the creation of an institute where academics and the NHS study local health improvement.

One of the reasons judges awarded Liverpool its Capital of Culture status was their sense that the "whole city was behind the bid".

Organisers promised about £11m would be spent on community projects, while the then Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell highlighted the competition's role as "an engine for regeneration".

Hundreds of millions of pounds has been invested in major building projects since the announcement in 2003, including the £1bn Liverpool One retail development.

The Northwest Development agency has estimated that about 1.7m extra people will visit Merseyside during 2008, spending an extra £50m in the area.

Source: BBC NEWS | Mer