Did anyone else see this programme last night? It was on the North of England during Victorian TImes. Plenty on Manchester, Newcastle, Saltaire, Blackpool and some former lunatic asylum in Yorkshire. And what of the city that was 2nd City of the Empire during Victorian times and thus the No 1 city in the North then? Not even a mention that Liverpool existed! And they advertised the series the week it began in the Radio Times, with a picture of St Georges Hall.
This was a perfect chance for potential visitors next year to see our splendid Victorian architecture and see how important we were in those days, and the BBC totally ignored us. I rang the BBC to complain last night and urge others to do the same.
Julie

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Nothing new there then. As far as the BBC and to a certain extent Granada
are concerned, Liverpool dosn't exist. The old asylum is probably High Royds

Thanks Steve - couldn't remember the name. It's not that I object to the asylum or any of the other places being mentioned but to omit us was a travesty. Any you're quite right about Granada and "Granada Distorts"

Nothing new there then. As far as the BBC and to a certain extent Granada
are concerned, Liverpool dosn't exist. The old asylum is probably High Royds

I've heard of an Emma Royds?

I saw it, and my complaints in.

According to that pathetic excuse of a programme.... The rocket never happened and the first trains were from Newcastle.

I say we get an army together like in rome and march down south........ No hold on..... over the top. :disgust:

PEACE and Happiness........ Gaz

I can't stand that man anyway reactionary old toff

yeah no mention of the first intercity rail link, even in manchester!

I have complained.

The BBC is bound by charter to record EVERY complaint it receives.

I would advise anyone who has any concerns about how the BBC covers (or doesn't cover) Liverpool to complain as often as they can.

It will provide 'evidence' for a growing discontent with its output - something that it will have to be seen to be constructively addressing.

In SE England a concerted campaign forced the BBC to provide a SE local service to its Kent and Sussex viewers who were previously catered for by BBC South in Southampton.

I have complained.

The BBC is bound by charter to record EVERY complaint it receives.

I would advise anyone who has any concerns about how the BBC covers (or doesn't cover) Liverpool to complain as often as they can.

It will provide 'evidence' for a growing discontent with its output - something that it will have to be seen to be constructively addressing.

In SE England a concerted campaign forced the BBC to provide a SE local service to its Kent and Sussex viewers who were previously catered for by BBC South in Southampton.

I agree completely. Without sounding like a daily Mail reader Liverpool needs to build up an army of people who will object every time we are dissed, portrayed badly or omitted and only then will we be taken seriously.

on radio merseyside before apparently they were talking about it and it was mentioned that they did film in Liverpool, but it wasnt used for the programme. they should have showed it instead of that mental asylum.

I've complained too! It gets me so annoyed!

Dimbleby hmmm don't trust men in brown suede shoes!


Rob

I saw it, and my complaints in.

According to that pathetic excuse of a programme.... The rocket never happened and the first trains were from Newcastle.


Listen, from my experiance of living there, if the Geordies can mussle in on anything they will.

Liverpool SHOULD have been on that programme. As previously stated, Liverpool was the second city of the Empire, a City to Rival Athens! Queen Victoria actually hated Newcastle; when she was going to Balmoral on her royal train, she would close her curtains at the Tees and not open them till the Tweed. I quite liked that!

Stuff the bridges of geordieland, most of them are closed off anyway! You have to do a loop the loop to get to the Swing Bridge! We want the Albert Dock, St Georges Hall with William Brown Street and what about Oriel Chambers, Exchange Station or even a look at some of the fine domestic Victorian buildings out in the suburbs of Walton and such like?

Come to think of it what about Birkenhead Park? Worlds first park and no mention? Digraceful. I will get an army from the North End together!

I was also dis-pleased when he was talking about the Georgian Age and he didn't come here; we have more Georgian Buildings than Bath....so where does he go? Bath!

Admittedly, he cant visit the same place twice but a little bit of coverage would be nice dont you think?

Excellent program. Yes steveb, you're correct, the asylum was High Royds.

No mention of Liverpool doesn't bother me. Why do people on this forum feel so 'hard done by' all the time? Plenty of towns weren't mentioned on that program, and the towns that were mentioned had good reason to be.

I still don't buy this conspiracy theory that BBC has a problem with Liverpool. Sorry...

Snappel, I take your point that sometimes we in Liverpool come across as hard done by, rightly or wrongly. But this was a programme about Victorian times and asides London, we were the major city in those days. If we can't be given our dues for then, we've no chance nowadays. It would be like doing South East London in Victorian Times and missing out London. We weren't even given a mention but we were far more important than any other place mentioned. I just feel if we say nothing, this will continue.
Julie

Agree Gaz - I couldn't believe that we (or even Manchester) weren't metioned in respect of pioneering trains - 1st Passenger railway line in the world! Or even the Stockton to Darlington line. But Newcastle?
I try hard not to be paranoid but last night made me despair.
Julie

I saw it, and my complaints in.

According to that pathetic excuse of a programme.... The rocket never happened and the first trains were from Newcastle.

I say we get an army together like in rome and march down south........ No hold on..... over the top. :disgust:

PEACE and Happiness........ Gaz

Glad to hear that Radio Merseyside took up the baton - hopefully they'll be obliged to explain themselves and at least they might think twice before writing us out of history next time. If you complain you're promised a reply within 10 days so will post it here when it arrives.
Julie

on radio merseyside before apparently they were talking about it and it was mentioned that they did film in Liverpool, but it wasnt used for the programme. they should have showed it instead of that mental asylum.

Have to say, it's a poor man's Fred Dibnah 'Buildings of Britain'. He KNEW what he was talking about!

Have to say, it's a poor man's Fred Dibnah 'Buildings of Britain'. He KNEW what he was talking about!

Here Here! I will second that!

Excellent program. Yes steveb, you're correct, the asylum was High Royds.

No mention of Liverpool doesn't bother me. Why do people on this forum feel so 'hard done by' all the time? Plenty of towns weren't mentioned on that program, and the towns that were mentioned had good reason to be.

I still don't buy this conspiracy theory that BBC has a problem with Liverpool. Sorry...


What? really?

If you dont believe that Liverpool and its people have been detrimentally viewed in the public eye for years then I'm obliged to say "where have you been?"

The Media of this country based primarily in London and Manchester have fed off sensationalising the dark side of our city for years. That's not paranoia mate, that a fact! Proof?, Hillsborough. I wont go back through to the eighties and what I went through when I was a teenager because I would be here all night.

If you want a list mate I'll personally type it out and give you it. including parliamentary extracts that clearly exclude Liverpool for funding dating back to the mess of the garden festival. Every idiot South and East of this City believed we were all Derek Hatton's... on the take and looking to rob our own city.

Whatever the linear path we've took since as a city, we've been scarred with that. If that sounds like scouse paranoia mate then you clearly don't either live here or don't see the big picture. I love my city and the people in it. I'd defend it to the last, but I'm not ignorant and do not whinge at the first slight on us by outsiders. However, that programme showed a pedantic side to itself that couldn't be ignored. Its dogmatic approach was laughable and needed a complaint simply for stealing my licence fee.

If you don't believe Liverpool was worthy of a justifiable mention in the North's Victorian Cities then that's your opinion and your entitled to it. You seem to believe as do a lot of people from the rest of the country, that were all paranoid and bitter if were ignored. Dogma?

My mates work the door's in Liverpool town centre seven days a week and you know what the main story is? the troublemakers and violence are rarely caused by scousers. Fact.


Know ye that we have granted to all our faithful people who have taken Burgages in Liverpool that they may have all the liberties and free customs in the township of Liverpool which any Free Borough on the sea has in our land. Addition :- Unless your David Dimbleby.

Come to think of it what about Birkenhead Park? Worlds first park and no mention? Digraceful. I will get an army from the North End together!


Ok General, I'll muster troops from the South end. We'll join forces, Its time to put this sad excuse of a country in its place! :PDT11

No Peace and Happiness......Gaz :PDT26

I'm sort of with Snappel on this one.

I don't need a TV programme to tell me how great Liverpool is, surely there will be enough coverage next year when the real culture celebrations begin.

I watched that program and it didn't paint a very good picture of Manchester, describing it as a damp, ugly, unattractive place or something like that; and described the slums an horrible conditions where the average lifespan was 26 yrs and people lived in holes in the ground.

I WAS looking forward to some Liverpool coverage but I wasn't so disapointed when it didn't happen. The programme was only an hour long and if it included all the major towns and cities then they would have all had about a 5 minute slot each - not enough time to tell a decent story about any town.

Wel'll have our day. The whole of Britain will be focussed on us next year, lets look forward to that and be positive.

:)

I complained because having had my appetite whetted by the mention of St George's Hall in the Radio Times I was expecting more.

I also complained because if a programme is setting itself up as being about the building of Britain from an architectural standpoint and is focusing on northern England then it is factually misleading to miss out a city that has more listed buildings than any other city outside London and during this period was a mercantile city par excellence and northern England's largest and richest city.

I know television programmes engage in dumbing down but I am genuinely interested in what underpinned the editorial decision to airbrush Liverpool out of this picture. I pay my licence fee and expect an explanation. As soon as I receive it, I'll post it here.

If you don't believe Liverpool was worthy of a justifiable mention in the North's Victorian Cities then that's your opinion and your entitled to it. You seem to believe as do a lot of people from the rest of the country, that were all paranoid and bitter if were ignored. Dogma?

My mates work the door's in Liverpool town centre seven days a week and you know what the main story is? the troublemakers and violence are rarely caused by scousers. Fact.
I don't believe Liverpool wasn't worthy, but I understand that such a program can't fit in every town and building of worth. As has been said, filming took place in Liverpool but didn't make the cut. Liverpool has plenty that would be good, such as the Royal Infirmary, extensive docks, St Georges Hall. However, my point is simply that we shouldn't feel victimised when it is left out. Why would they film here if they had no intention of using the footage?

Regarding the violence in the town centre, I find that hard to believe. Nine times out of ten when I've witnessed violent behaviour in the street or in clubs it's Scousers. And that's not victimisation, that's just the simple fact that the majority of citizens in this town are Scousers. Perhaps your bouncer mates are just 'looking after their own'?

Half of what I've read on this forum recently is about Liverpool's portrayal in the media, stereotypes and suchlike. It seems that whenever anything from a gameshow host's jovial remark about Scousers being thieves to a TV program about Liverpool football fans on a plane having a ruck gets mentioned there's uproar. I wouldn't be surprised if most cities felt in some way victimised, left-out or misunderstood.

Half of what I've read on this forum recently is about Liverpool's portrayal in the media, stereotypes and suchlike. It seems that whenever anything from a gameshow host's jovial remark about Scousers being thieves to a TV program about Liverpool football fans on a plane having a ruck gets mentioned there's uproar. I wouldn't be surprised if most cities felt in some way victimised, left-out or misunderstood.

This discrimination Snappel, does have an effect on people's careers and lives up and down the country as it would any 'different' person being from somewhere else. Scousers get it more often then most due to the poor streotypes that have been banded around for years.

Snobbery is alive and well, have u ever sat in a room with people and for them to ridicule your city and its people just for a laugh?

Many scousers (lets stop using that as a negetive please) have low self esteem, self belief and self image as a result of all this.

Many of the problems faced by other cities never become an issue because many of those who report on the problems are residents in those areas, they wouldn't like to talk about that now would they? They talk about Liverpool though.

I don't believe Liverpool wasn't worthy, but I understand that such a program can't fit in every town and building of worth. As has been said, filming took place in Liverpool but didn't make the cut. Liverpool has plenty that would be good, such as the Royal Infirmary, extensive docks, St Georges Hall. However, my point is simply that we shouldn't feel victimised when it is left out. Why would they film here if they had no intention of using the footage?

.


Not including Liverpool in Dimbleby's programme about architecture in northern cities is like doing a programme on Elizabethan drama and not including Shakespeare! If the quality of the film shot wasn't up to scratch, there is plenty of archive material to choose from.

If the programme was about another subject whereby we didn't stand out as one of the best at the subject matter, we would not feel victimised if left out, the fact is, how on earth can you not include Liverpool when it's about Victorian architecture. Ask Pevsner, quote Queen Victoria, get a copy of the grade listed buildings. The omittance is even stranger, given that they did film here, so why then leave it out. it's obviously not just a knee jerk reaction if even Radio Merseyside are on the case.

So where did these stereotypes come from? And does Liverpool actually get more than anybody else? This is my point. How have we fairly compared this with every other major city?

Yes, Liverpool issues poorly reported will stand out to us, but are we just as vigilant at spotting predjudice against other towns? On this forum I've detected a fair amount of bad feelings towards 'Mancs', for example, from certain individuals - is this any different, judging all Mancunians, students and southerners by how we might like to think they are?

My roots aren't in Liverpool, and more times than I can remember I've met looks of surprise from my lack of a Scouse (no negative intended) accent - 'Oh. Where are you from? You're not from around here are you woolly back?', sometimes ranging as far as 'Why don't you f*** off back home foreigner?'. In my experience in the last 7 years, I've felt on many occasions stereotyped as an 'outsider' myself.

Before you ring that number > Google, ' Saynoto0870' and it will give you the real land line number. Why waste money ?

My roots aren't in Liverpool, and more times than I can remember I've met looks of surprise from my lack of a Scouse (no negative intended) accent - 'Oh. Where are you from? You're not from around here are you woolly back?', sometimes ranging as far as 'Why don't you f*** off back home foreigner?'. In my experience in the last 7 years, I've felt on many occasions stereotyped as an 'outsider' myself.

I hate the term woolyback. It's as dismissive and reductionist as any of the negative scouse sterotypes.

So where do the stereotypes come from and how do we fair with other cities.

Well what is sterotypical about someone from Sheffield, Bolton, Leeds, Manchester, Coventry, Leicester, Ipswich?

Hull was voted worst place to live 2 years running in 2005 and 2006 yet we didn't hear Harry Enfield, Billy Connolly or Boris Johnson mention it funnily enough because they know to tarnish Liverpool instead will provoke a reaction and get some publicity for their cause, they obviously don't consider the population of the likes of Hull worth bothering with - perhaps it's a back handed compliment in fact.

Did you not see the Harry Enfield episode where Kevin's mate Perry came back from Manchester then, talking like one of Oasis, and Kevin went off in a stupid effort at a Yorkshire accent? Have you not heard Monty Python's 'Four Yorkshireman' sketch? The list could go on and on...

Doesn't Yorkshire cover two counties (one of them being the largest in England) - it's only since the Gallaghers came on the scene that anyone has skitted their over accentuated way of talking, and listening to it - who wouldn't.

Well said - my point exactly.

QUOTE=Jericho;67864]Not including Liverpool in Dimbleby's programme about architecture in northern cities is like doing a programme on Elizabethan drama and not including Shakespeare! If the quality of the film shot wasn't up to scratch, there is plenty of archive material to choose from.[/QUOTE]

From the "Mr Brocklebank" column in Daily Post of July 10:

"When BBC royalty David Dimbleby arrived in Liverpool to film the northern Victorian episode of his "How we built Britain" series, he told Mr Brocklebank that he was bowled over by the grand mercantile cityscape. Curiously, the programme on Sunday night had not one frame of Liverpool. Instead, viewers saw Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Blackpool, Saltaire and the West Riding County Lunatic Asylum.
Is not "doing Victoriana" something in which Liverpool is unassailable? Clearly not to London-centric BBC documentary mugwumps who regard the former Second City of Empire as not even worth of a footnote."

Regarding the violence in the town centre, I find that hard to believe. Nine times out of ten when I've witnessed violent behaviour in the street or in clubs it's Scousers. And that's not victimisation, that's just the simple fact that the majority of citizens in this town are Scousers. Perhaps your bouncer mates are just 'looking after their own'?


Mate I'm not going to make a big deal of this because it's a side issue, but you presume that my Doorman friends ( not bouncers ) are all scousers, wrong. Two are from Runcorn and ones from Chester. the other's are from Liverpool yes. I would also like to point out that unless your some sort of Alcoholic, they'd have a little bit more authority on the subject than yourself.

Obviously there are scousers that cause trouble, but you seem to have based your comment on percentages. Have you any idea how many students this city contains now? Most of them live in or around the town centre. How many Foreign workers in the city? how many tourists? I think you'll find most of these groups dont drink in local pubs or clubs in Liverpool urban areas. They head for the City Centre.

As far as the discrimination goes, try having a Liverpool accent and going into a sports shop in Devon and ask to try a certain table tennis bat for a City competition your in. Politely and respectfully I explained I was in their local sports arena playing for Liverpool in the inter cities competition.

While I was commenting how beautiful Goodrington beach was and how lucky they were to have such a place, the door was locked behind me by two policemen who'd been called incase I stole anything. They told me to leave and I'd be best finding the train station and heading back to my slums. I was 12 years old.

Peace and Happiness......Gaz

Wato, mate that was sad. I grieve for you especially at that tender age. I comment about the weather was made to me recently at my local superstore. When I replied the bloke said that I was a long way from home. I said my accent was but I live three minutes away from here. Makes you think what,s in these peoples mind don,t it?

Wato, that was disgusting. :angry: I have heard similar stories like this, but to tell you to get back to your slums - and you were just a kid of 12 - how pathetic.:disgust:

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I've not even had that yet. Perhaps they're going to ignore me as well as Liverpool!

I've not even had that yet. Perhaps they're going to ignore me as well as Liverpool!

That's the beauty of it - they can't ignore you! They are bound by their own charter to record and respond to complaints. The BBC is in deep water at the moment over the Blue Peter prize winning deception not to mention how they misrepresented our dear queen :snf (41):

If you don't receive a reply within 10 days - complain again :PDT_Xtremez_12:

Ta, will do.

Dear Mrs Kershaw

Thank you for your e-mail regarding 'How We Built Britain'.

I understand you were disappointed there was no reference to Liverpool
on the programme. Nevertheless, please be assured I have registered
your comments regarding this issue and have made them available to the
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Feedback of this nature helps us when making decisions about future BBC
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Doesn't look like we're going to get an apology like the Queen did! I expected at least David Dimbleby on my doorstep with a bunch of flowers!

Anyone else had a reply yet? They don't give me an explanation as to why they left the Livepool footage out.

You'd think if he was a McDonald, he'd have a quarter pounder at least (cheese optional)

So it is true what they say about Scotsmen and their kilts!

Here's the original image before BBC Scotland edited Ged out :PDT10

Isn't he a bit overdressed?!

Still trying to work out how this got in a David Dimbleby thread!:)

Ha ha Kev. Listen Julie, if you read the post before mine, you'll see the Queen was mentioned and that's a good enough reason for me lol.

I had the same reply from the BBC. I sent a stringing reply asking why another programme was not included considering some of the tripe that is on the BBC.
I am still awaiting an answer, a copy of my letter is attached

Dear Mr Wheeler,

What a patronising reply, without Liverpool there would have been no Manchester, it was the cotton coming into Liverpool that made Manchester King Cotton. Manchester would not have happened without Liverpool. The first dock systems in the world were in Liverpool. Leeds wanted the business from Liverpool so much that a canal was built to carry goods to Leeds. Liverpool Built Britain with the railways or did you miss that?

You got it wrong again, rather than cut Liverpool you should have made a programme just about liverpool, as a tour guide i can tell you there is enough material for a series. You put on enough tripe would it have been so difficult to made an extra programme in this excellent series.

Who made the decision to drop Liverpool? The BBC biased against Liverpool is so apparent. You cannot say that we are not multicultural. We were multicultural before it became fashionable with the Notting Hill crowd. Are we not Gay enough? we are a port of course we are Gay. Or is that the council is a Lib-Dem and the sticks in the throat of you lefties. Would it have been too much for you to do a programme "How Liverpool Built Britain" because we did.

I want my concerns dealt with, not logged and ignored, I want the producer to contact me and explain why? I want more than the pathetic reply I have had so far.

Regards