War Time Liverpool

[scouserdave]

I can't imagine how life must have been for the people of Liverpool between 39-45. I can still recall playing in the bombdies in the early 60s.
Picture scanned from "Bombers over Merseyside - The Authoritative Record of the Blitz 1940-41" Liverpool Daily Post And Echo Ltd. 1943

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/ww2a.jpg

[scouserdave]

My Mum was evacuated to N. Wales in WW2, but my Dad stayed in Liverpool. He told me he had the time of his life. After the bombings, him and his mates used to looking for shrapnel:eek:
Kids eh?:rolleyes:

[Waterways]

I can't imagine how life must have been for the people of Liverpool between 39-45.

My mother could imitate the sound of a German bomber dropping its load. The engines raced as the plane became lighter. When the engines raced you ducked and prayed.

Early in the war, my Dad saw the occasional dog fight over the Mersey. Liverpool had more homes destroyed in percentage than London. Bootle was the most bombed town in WW2. Canada Dock the most bombed square mile.

Liverpool was poorly defended with a few night fighters while London had most. London was a less important target as it was a propaganda target while Liverpool was a strategic target - the Atlantic convoys. London Docks closed down and the London dockers and their families taken to Clydeside. Half the Liverpool Docks were out of action in the May Blitz 1941. The Germans never knew this.

[ChrisGeorge]

I can't imagine how life must have been for the people of Liverpool between 39-45. I can still recall playing in the bombdies in the early 60s.
Picture scanned from "Bombers over Merseyside - The Authoritative Record of the Blitz 1940-41" Liverpool Daily Post And Echo Ltd. 1943


Great picture, Dave. My grandparents in Mossley Hill had that very book but I fear it went the way of all flesh and it is lost to me now. Pity.

Also, thanks, Waterways, for your information on the Blitz.

Chris

[Kev]

Here's some images:

[Kev]

....and some more.....

[john]

Widnes Home Guard
They would frighten anyone :)

[ChrisGeorge]

Widnes Home Guard
They would frighten anyone :)

My Grandad, George T. Matchett, served as a Sergeant in the Home Guard in Liverpool. He had been in the Lancashire Hussars and the Lancashire Fusiliers in World War I. Between the wars he obtained work with the GPO telephones, a position from which he retired as a manager in the 1950's.

Chris

[Kev]

...and some more.........worth a read

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Kev

Wonderful material, Kev. You had better tell us where exactly you are getting this stuff though... :snf (41):

Chris

[Kev]

Hi Kev

Wonderful material, Kev. You had better tell us where exactly you are getting this stuff though... :snf (41):

Chris

Germans mate, nar joking really, Records Office at Liverpool City Library :PDT_Piratz_26::PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[ChrisGeorge]

Thanks, Kev, the typescript pages look like an official wartime diary of the Blitz.

Chris

[A.D.W]

Thanks, Kev, the typescript pages look like an official wartime diary of the Blitz.

Chris

Merseyside's Secret Blitz Diary: Liverpool at War (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Merseysides-Secret-Blitz-Diary-Liverpool/dp/0954687191/sr=8-2/qid=1165532126/ref=sr_1_2/203-4445762-3740712?ie=UTF8&s=books)

[EdF]

Another good book on the Blitz is "Port in a Storm" by John Hughes. I picked up a copy at the Albert Dock book store last year.
It is a blow-by blow account of the May 1941 raids on the docks, and ships in the river. After reading this I wonder how we survived.
Even though I was only 6, I have some vivid memories of the time.

[ChrisGeorge]

Thank you, Cissie and EdF for those good leads!

Chris

[SteH]

Here's pictures of the mass grave in Anfield Cemetery of 554 unknown victims of the Blitz.

Kev - move this to the Graveyards thread if you think its more appropriate there.

[drone_pilot]

http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/521/p51_liverpool.jpg
A P51 Mustang being towed from the Pier Head to Speke passing the bottom of Water Street, Liverpool, 1944

This was posted on Military images.

Military images (http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=10176)

[PhilipG]

It's a great photo, but is it being towed to the Pier Head, rather than from it?
Where's the towing vehicle?

I ask because I wonder if they were made at Speke, and then shipped by river?
(Having said that, why not use Garston Docks?)

[Cadfael]

It's a great photo, but is it being towed to the Pier Head, rather than from it.
Where's the towing vehicle?

I ask because I wonder if they were made at Speke, and then shipped by river?
(Having said that, why not use Garston Docks?)

That's a Pearsons job if ever I saw one. The truck in front of the aircraft is the one doing the towing. Recognise it from the pictures I have that are going in the Pearsons book.

[PhilipG]

I thought it was turning left into Water Street.
I can see now it's not, and I can see the truck, part hidden by the tram.

[Ebby1954]

That was a familiar scene when I was a kid living in the Tennie's (Speke Rd Gdns) there used to be convoys of them being towed to Speke Airport.

[drone_pilot]

That was a familiar scene when I was a kid living in the Tennie's (Speke Rd Gdns) there used to be convoys of them being towed to Speke Airport.

That would make sense if the planes where made in the U.S. shipped here in convoys, then made flight ready at speke, then flown to there dispersal air field's.

[snappel]

I think that's the most likely theory. As far as I know they weren't produced in England so it's very likely they were brought over part-assembled and finished off at Speke.

Fantastic photo...

[Norm NZ]

'Correct' both of you! they were 'finished off' at the Rootes Aircraft Factory ,which was situated close to Speke airport, (Rootes later became the Dunlop Factory) then once completed they were 'wheeled' across Speke Hall Avenue into the airport where they were then flown off to various other bases. As Ebby, I too remember them all being towed down Mather Ave., then Speke Road to the Rootes Factory. Guess that they could'nt be 'shipped' to Garston Docks because of tidal conditions.:PDT11

[EdF]

There were also a lot of planes assembled at Burtonwood. My father used to work there, and the planes would arrive in pieces or crates from the docks. I recall him telling me that most of the workers were unskilled in aircraft work and his job was correcting the errors in the assembly process.

[marky]

I can just make out:
EWS 50 Yards -->
(EWS= Emergency Water Station)
Edge Lane/ Needham Road
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee262/south_liverpool/EWS_Needham_Rd_Edge_La.jpg

[taffy]

'Correct' both of you! they were 'finished off' at the Rootes Aircraft Factory ,which was situated close to Speke airport, (Rootes later became the Dunlop Factory) then once completed they were 'wheeled' across Speke Hall Avenue into the airport where they were then flown off to various other bases. As Ebby, I too remember them all being towed down Mather Ave., then Speke Road to the Rootes Factory. Guess that they could'nt be 'shipped' to Garston Docks because of tidal conditions.:PDT11

Norm, Here's a photo pf the planes on Allerton Rd just about to enter Mather Avenue.

Photo from Liverpool Echo

[Waterways]

Norm, Here's a photo pf the planes on Allerton Rd just about to enter Mather Avenue.

Photo from Liverpool Echo

Anyone know the aircraft type.

[PhilipG]

Anyone know the aircraft type.

No, but that's the Plaza cinema they're passing. :)
Yates's Wine Lodge (formerly Tesco) is now on the site of the cinema.

[drone_pilot]

Anyone know the aircraft type.

Ill ask my resedent aircraft expert.

[phredd]

MUSTANGS I think ??

phredd

[Waterways]

MUSTANGS I think ??

phredd

In Allerton Rd, no. It looks like carrier plane as it has a wide undercarriage. Wildcat? Hellcat?

[Norm NZ]

"Thanks for posting the photo Taffy! Brings back a lot of fond memories, especially the view of the Plaza Cinema" That pic showed some of the smaller planes. there were larger one's, minus wings, so that they could make the journey along the dual carriageways. Can't say what type but not Mustangs, they had a different nose arrangement, look like 'Defiants' or 'Skua's' to me.

[PhilipG]

I've got a 10 x 8 print of this photo, and the caption says: "2/15 American Mustangs going down Allerton Road".
The 2/15 could refer to the number of the photo. (I think it was in a book, but don't know what).

BTW. I don't know one plane from another.

[Mark R]

They look like Grumman Hellcats but I could be wrong...

[gregs dad]

definitely Mustangs. Hellcats and Wildcats had radial engines and no
bubble canopy. I built and flew all these planes albeit as models when I
was a lad
gregs dad

[Cadfael]

Sent a copy of this picture to my Uncle who used to work at the Dunlops factory - this was his reply:

This leaves me confused! The Dunlop Speke factory was built as I understood it, as an aircraft factory. When I workrd there it still had the huge sliding doors for getting planes out and was tall with cranes running the length of the factory so that they could lift planes over each other. It was facing the old main runway so that finished planes could be taken across the road and onto the runway.
I do not know which aircraft company had their name over the door but I always assumed that it did not become a Dunlop tyre factory untill after the war. But this is clearly wrong in view of this picture unless that dates from after the war.
Its a bit of a suprise that the roads were wide enough without lamp posts or trees or post holding tram wires, to be able to bring planes along them
Incidently did you realise that the trees along Allerton Road were planted there as mature trees after the roads had been modified, presumably after the tram tracks were taken up, say 1951.

[Waterways]

The planes being towed down Allerton Rd are P51 Mustangs with the props and spinners taken off. The same as the plane being towed past Water St.

The planes once assembled at Speke would be delivered to their destinations by teams of girl pilots.

[Greeny]

Great reading everyones memories about these planes.

The last trams to run along allerton Road did so on 6 June 1953.

The road was widened and made into a dual carriageway in 1966.

[chippie]

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z280/desmondstreet/louisast1610.40bombed.jpg

Louisa Street off Heyworth and St Domingo Road after bomb damage

[Kev]

Can you post the source please Chippie?

cheers

kev

[drone_pilot]

Here you go Kev,

http://www.cherryflava.com/cherryflava/images/heinz.jpg
Sorry thought you said "Can you pass the sauce please Chippie?"

[Maggie May]

The planes once assembled at Speke would be delivered to their destinations by teams of girl pilots.[/QUOTE]

I read an interesting article some time back written by some of these girl pilots....one of which used to fly Lancaster bombers... she had flown all her life and after the war she wanted to continue flying and her ambition was to become a commercial pilot....only when she applied for training she was told that females were not recruited for training.....:shock:

These girls risked so much during war time as so many did..only then to get a pat on the head and sent back to the kitchen

[Waterways]

The planes once assembled at Speke would be delivered to their destinations by teams of girl pilots.

I read an interesting article some time back written by some of these girl pilots....one of which used to fly Lancaster bombers... she had flown all her life and after the war she wanted to continue flying and her ambition was to become a commercial pilot....only when she applied for training she was told that females were not recruited for training.....:shock:

These girls risked so much during war time as so many did..only then to get a pat on the head and sent back to the kitchen

The girls even flight tested the planes at Speke. The came over in knock-down kits and assembled and tested at Speke. They would then deliver them to the various British and American units in the UK and later in France.

[Maggie May]

Yes I remember reading that as well......I found it absolutely fascinating....I really must see if there are any books these women have written

[chippie]

Kev; The Louisa Street photo I hijacked from a cousins website, I think she got it from records office.:PDT_Xtremez_12:

Drone; that was great, you,re a scream:handclap:

[George]

Here you go Kev,

http://www.cherryflava.com/cherryflava/images/heinz.jpg
Sorry thought you said "Can you pass the sauce please Chippie?"


PMSL :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Kev]

Images courtesy: LRO

1) Air Raid Rescue Party School Dove Street 1939

2) Air Raid Rescue Party School Dove Street 1939 Dummy

3) Air Raid Rescue Party Trench Bootle 1938

4) Air Raid Rescue Squad 1939

5) Air Raid Shelter Bunk Beds 1942

6) Air Raid Shelter Liver Buildings Pier Head 1948

7) Air Raid Shelter Lower Lane Fazakerley 1939

8) Air Raid Shelter Removal Bidder Street 1945

9) Air Raid Shelter St Georges Hall 1948

10) Air Raid Shelter William Brown Street 1944

11) India Buildings Entrance Bricked Up 1944

12) Munitions Girl 1918 Artillary Shells Behind

13) Munitions Girls 1918

14) St Clements Anti Gass School 1937

15) St Clements Anti Gass School Lecture Room Men 1937

16) Stent Air Raid Shelter 1939

[robbo176]

interesting to see the photos of my old infant school, Dove Street,
I have seen photos of a gas chamber there which was a bit worrying,its a good job I was good in school :PDT_Xtremez_42:
does anyone know if St Clements School is also Dove St?

[efiste2]

superb images thanks for sharing, do you have anymore like these that you could put on here :PDT11

[Ken Berry]

Hi All,
So many stories about the War we lived in Hornsey Road,Grandad,Mum,Dad,Me(7ys old),Mum brothers and sisters,Uncle Cyril(4 1/2 years older than me,Aunty Dora,AuntyMarjorie,Uncle Reg(joined the navy)
Their dad lived in Norris Green.His wife died 1935 and he was an Alcoholic because of the trauma from WW1.He was an Engineer and ship was torpedoed March 3rd 1917.Was one of only 7 survivors,first 5 had their feet amputated as soon as they landed in Capetown.After being rescued by Blue Funnel,S.S.Deucalion 12th March 1917.He was almost sent home right away but Mum remembered he was in terrible pain and they took toes off and bits of flesh,before starting to amputate in 1920-21.He became a bit of a tyrant but they did try to support him.Then when the came to live with us,little boys have big ears.I heard little whisperings about "Lunty" as he was Called.
I must admit it bothered me a lot but I put it in the back of my mind.Collecting Shrapnel was a great hobby.One morning Finchley Road was a no go area with wooden like trestles and a Soldier and Home Guard keeping
the people from Hornsey Road,Harrow Road,forgotten the next one and all the back jiggers from going in to Finchley Road. Finchley Road just looked like it had Tulips growing out of it.There were more than a 100 Incediary Bombs sticking out of the tar.And they were waiting to get the bomb squad to defuse them.It was in the afternoon when they arrived and the detonaters still needed to be taken out but they were filled with dirt the soldier told us.Could go on for hours.The best of the lot in a way was us walking up the street were the Sandon Pub was,the Dairy opposite the bowling green of the Sandon had a Beechnut Chewing Gum Machine on the brick wall.There were three of us,Ronnie ,Don I think or Ian and Myself and Ronnie gave it a right bang and the draw flew out and a packet of Chewy was still in there,so we gave it a right going over and we got 7 seven packets of Beechnut out.This was when the bliztes were just about to start so they hadbenn in there for a year or two.We did go to Lunty's once when he got a note to Mum that he was off the bottle and the British Legion had put an Anderson Shelter in the garden and he thought it better for us,Mum ,Me and Cyril to stay there during the raids.There was a raid the 1st night till about 4am Cyril had to tidy the shelter,I did the dishes and Mum went round to the shops.There was all this banging etc going on upstairs then I could hear Lunty coming down the stairs like a ton of bricks.Came in the kitchen and started to beat me up with his walking sticks,I was screaming and yelling and think I must have past out.Cyril had come in with all the noise and the next door neighbour had come over and had Lunty's walking sticks in his hand.Saying something like You B------ you ruined your family and wife etc,Then Mum arrived and has always stuck in my mind,"Dad you killed Mum with a broken heart and now your trying to kill your grandson,thats it Reggie and Gordon( he was working in Manchester) are going to know about this.The only two who saw him again was Reggie and Cyril at his funeral in 1955.I did get to know him a wee bit just before I was 18,but thats another story.I even got a right rollicking off them all but he was my Grandad.I've rambled on a bit Best Regards Ken B

[Spike]

Bloomin Heck Ken, what a story. thank you for sharing it.

[jimmytx3]

I can just make out:
EWS 50 Yards -->
(EWS= Emergency Water Station)
Edge Lane/ Needham Road
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee262/south_liverpool/EWS_Needham_Rd_Edge_La.jpg
hi all, there is another i spotted today thanks to you Kev, the corner sheil road and bigham.

[Kev]

:handclap: Everyone cheers for another great thread!

I'll be adding more pics soon.

[Waterways]

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=52b6f78a6c699554_large

P51 Mustangs being taken from Liverpool Docks to the Rootes Aircraft factory at Speke airport. They are in partial knock-down form.

The lines of planes are moving up Parliament St and moving into Upper parliament St at the junction of St James Place. To the right is leading to Park Lane and Gt. George St. One building looks like it has temporary roof covering - probably after a fire bomb dropped on it.

St James Church is to the left off picture. The corner of the street to the left is the disused St. James' station. The large warehouse in the misty background is still there, nothing else is - even the planes I'm sure have been melted down.

[Ged]

Good description WW. Saw this on another forum earlier and was wondering what part of Upper Parly it was. :PDT11

[Ken Berry]

Hi All & Waterways,As it says in the description P-51 Mustangs.The last photo if you look closely at the first plane you can see her bulk underneath.That was the Big Air in take.And you can notice it in some of the other photos.The other plane that used to come on the liberty ships were the "Hudsons" twin engined,But the wings were taken off at the outside of the engine,also the tailplane wings so they fitted neatly on the Deck.I went on the Bramley Moore with my Grandad and his tug and another had to get this liberty ship in to dock.The midships accomadation was just a burnt out shell.The Hudsons appeared to be OK just the odd hole here and there.I was on the Moore for two days as they had to get the ships unloaded ASAP.The raids had been going for a while and the blitzes were only a week or to away.Pa and I walked past the Ship with the Accomadation burnt out.There were about 20 Body Bags laying on the dock side.Always remember him stopping and saying remember those men, lad they died trying to help us.Two American MPs came over and talk to my Grandad,can't remember what about.But Pa gave them a big Hug.He just wasn't that kind of guy.He always told me my other Grandad "Lunty" was a WW1 hero.Pa was 76 when he retired off the Bramley Moore Aug !945 and lived till he was 86 in 1955.
Stirred me up when I went to sea as an Engineer.Best when I was home on leave.3 or 4 am in the morning.He give me a shake and Say"Pair of Kippers or Plate of Salt fish" on the table Lad.We used to have some great laughs.Mum had a cake shop delicatessen in Breckfield Road North.Imagine that marvellous aroma in a cake shop.
Talking about the Lady pilots I was at Padgate with my Uncle John or the Airfield close by and a delivery of Spitfire were coming in and one was having trouble.I was standing just outside the 2 storey control tower and they were shouting instructions to her, over the radio I presume.She was trying to hold the plane steady as it came in,but it was doing all kinds of little twists and turns but coming in to land.Suddenly the Port wing literally fell off and she went straight in and was killed.War Ugh.Terrorists Nut cases,. Best Rgards Ken

[Cadfael]

Ken,

You may well be interested in the Pearsons of Liverpool story - my website Pearsons (http://www.pearsonsofliverpool.co.uk) is about the WW2 war time efforts based in and around Edge Hill/Wavertree.

[Ken Berry]

Hi Cadfael (Senior Member)
My G/G Grandfather had a big Shire or Clydesdale Horse to pull his big Cart.The horse was stabled up passed the Pavillion somewhere.I remember he had these two fairly big boxes on the cart.I had hopped on his cart and was talking to him and he was saying that the horse would sleep well that night as ,it was struggling a bit with the load.He parked the cart with the load on.Think it was at the back of the stables and I helped him take Goliath the horse into its little pen in the stable.He was feeding it and water,and brushing the horse down and I got a bit bored.So I went out and climbed on top of the boxes on the cart.I remember it had stencilling on and a lot of numbers plus I'm sure GM then _____ ______ suspension.I stood up and about 4 streets and a couple of small factories I thought I could see a couple of trucks with like long thin Machine guns on.So I went and told Big Dada as he was called I would go home to his place before I caught the 26 Bus to Oakfield Road on my way home.But first of all I went down the couple of streets and was having a look at these 4 small trucks with these machine guns on, a bit like the Long Range Desert Group Hardware.A man came over and told me I had to go and not to be so nosey.Also not to come back and say anything to my mates.So I took off and went to Big Mama's,my G/G Grand mothers 25,Toft Street.off Holt Road.And had her yummy date scones and Lemonade.I told her what I had seen and she told me that I was not to tell anybody even Mum or Dad what I had seen.
She said Aunty Ida or Aunty Doddy worked there and it was a secret,that no one should know about.I promised her and never ever said anything about it.In fact as soon as I read you Web Site it all came back.At just on 77 I have always been Blessed with almost a photographic memory,certainly not quite so good as it used to be.So Thank You for answering another of my wartime occurences or maybe adventures.Still have a couple more to find out about.One is were all the Sherman Tanks where Parked off Priory Road???.We used to play on them and One of the American Sergeants asked my mate Ronnie Hogarth and I to count them for him in case some one had stolen one during the night.And if we got the number right he would take us for a drive in one of the Tanks.807 and it was right on the Button.We got our ride in the tank and it wasn't a Sherman it was a General Grant as they had just arrived and he was going to give them all a check and Park them.When you think of it these days someone would probably nick one.Your book must be fascinating but cross my heart I never said another word after Big Mama made me promise not to.Tomorrow I will get onto Wellington Library in case they have your book.Almost an answer to a prayer in finding out about the Pearson's War Effort and my curiousity not being allowed to say any more.Best Regards to You and Yours Ken Berry

[lindylou]

.Still have a couple more to find out about.One is were all the Sherman Tanks where Parked off Priory Road???.We used to play on them and One of the American Sergeants asked my mate Ronnie Hogarth and I to count them for him in case some one had stolen one during the night.And if we got the number right he would take us for a drive in one of the Tanks.807 and it was right on the Button.We got our ride in the tank and it wasn't a Sherman it was a General Grant as they had just arrived and he was going to give them all a check and Park them.When you think of it these days someone would probably nick one.Your book must be fascinating but cross my heart I never said another word after Big Mama made me promise not to.Tomorrow I will get onto Wellington Library in case they have your book.Almost an answer to a prayer in finding out about the Pearson's War Effort and my curiousity not being allowed to say any more.Best Regards to You and Yours Ken Berry

There were tanks stored and repaired in Breckside park depot. Breckside park is off Lower Breck rd Anfield. Lower Breck rd is a continuation after Priory rd. I have seen on the internet a photo of the Breckside tanks. I can't find it now though.
I could only find this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/07/a4044007.shtml

The Breckside depot was demolished in recent years and new houses built on the site.

[Ged]

Info about the SS Malakand.

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/nof/blitz/0000_info.html

[Wooltonian]

I can't imagine how life must have been for the people of Liverpool between 39-45. I can still recall playing in the bombdies in the early 60s.
Picture scanned from "Bombers over Merseyside - The Authoritative Record of the Blitz 1940-41" Liverpool Daily Post And Echo Ltd. 1943

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/ww2a.jpg

I was age 13 at the start of the war, and remember the nights of bombing.
You would just get to sleep, then would be woken by the air raid sirens, and head down into the Anderson shelter built in the garden.
My older sister Edith, by 10 years, worked in the aircraft factory in Speke, and refused to get out of bed, saying she needed her sleep for work.
One night a bomb landed a stones throw away from our house, but just around a corner which gave our house protection from blast damage.
My mother, hearing the explosion, though she had lost Edith.

Being young, I wanted out of the shelter to witness what was going on, and would go to join the air raid wardens. Strangely, the bomb landed about 15 feet from where the wardens waited in a covered entry. They were not there that night.
Another night I remember watching hundreds of incendiary bombs burning out on the golf course that was behind our house on the other side of Menlove Avenue. It was lucky, as dropped a second or two later or earlier they could have been on our homes.
My desire was to be a Spitfire pilot, but when time for my medical came, I failed being taken into the armed forces because I was born with a club right foot, almost straightened over the years by Plaster of Paris casts until I was four, and an operation when 10., but my leg and foot are smaller than my left leg as a result..
Maybe it was a blessing in disguise, as had I been fit to join, I may now be dead, or injured, as many were.

Wooltonian