I started a thread in the ex-Pats section of this forum concerning a Danny Mullin born in Liverpool but living here in Canada for the past 48 years. Danny left school in Liverpool at age 14 and is now, by anyones measure, a financial success. I have a friend in Liverpool who is now a multi millionair and who. although passing the eleven plus, could not afford the school uniform to go to college (grammer school.) So is an education necessary for financial success?

It would seem as though I have answered my own question but, what do others think?

Not sure about education, but intelligence isn't vital for success, if we're to believe your constant boasts about all your homes and the cruises you go on.

I don't think it's the be-all-and-end-all that some make it out to be. My brother left school with a few O-levels as they were at the time, and got a job driving cars around a depot yard. He worked his way up and he's now a transport manager. Likewise I know plenty of people who've got degrees and end up in low-paid jobs for which their qualifications don't really matter.

I think it's what you can do with what you know that's important.

So is an education necessary for financial success?
Your example answers the question, but does it actually mean anything? Very few uneducated people would do this, just as very few educated people become millionaires.

If nobody was taught basic maths and English, what the hell would become of the World!?

If nobody was taught basic maths and English, what the hell would become of the World!? I was referring to so called "higher education" rather than a basic high school diploma. I have a friend who has degrees from the following university's; Hague, Port Moresby and Western Australia, yet he was employed for the last 26 years of his working life as a cleaner. He was in effect, a professional student and, in spite of his degrees, never earned more than an average wage. I wouldn't, however, describe him as a failure, sure he never made a financial fortune but his life isn't at all bad.

In my class at school the person expected to be the most likely to succeed is now living, mostly in a drunken stupor, in a pensioners flat in Croxteth while another who never even finished school now lives in a villa in southern Spain. He retired at age 52 after selling his business. He was a window cleaner and having built the business to a succesful commercial enterprise, sold it for a small fortune. I think, sometimes, education can be an impediment to learning. I found a lot of "educated" people to be adverse to learning, especially from those they consider to have an inferior education and will dismiss out of hand good sound advice from that source.

A lot of people get by with 'blag' too.

I've seen lots like that - all 'gas & gaiters' if you know what I mean. They blag their way to 'success' - in some ways having to be a bit of an actor and have a bit of stage presence.

I've found that much out as I've got older .. having a good brain doesn't always matter if you havn't got the drive and the confidence. Confidence is everything as they say. Things are not always as marvellous as they seem. A lot of the time if you scratch the surface you will find either a good blagger underneath it all, or quite often a wheeler dealer type if you know what I mean !

.. and I am a great believer in these 2 sayings; 'an honest man is a poor man' (most definately) !! .. and 'there is no sentiment in business'.



to be fair though - I'm not suggesting that all successful or wealthy people are dishonest - but I think a genuine whiter than white, flawless tycoon would be in a minority :) you have to claw your way up in this world and being too soft and too honest and too above board gets you nowhere I'm afraid. :neutral:

Education isn't necessary or sufficient for success but it helps. There is a strong correlation between level of education and disposable income. Lots of people without a conventional education do really well for themselves. Without exception these people are bright, determined and tenacious. They make things happen. People often say that they know of people with PhDs flipping burgers, and I'm sure there are many people with higher degrees who are over qualified for the job they do.

Statistically the more educated you are the more likely you are to be successful but being educated in itself does not guarantee financial success. As an end in itself I think it's worth having because (in theory anyway) the process of being educated should teach you how to critically appraise the ideas of others and reach an informed opinion that you can defend. Many people arrive at this point, too, without a conventional education.

Personally I have always valued wisdom over education.

Sorry Sloyne, I misunderstood.

You have a fair point. So many people go to university and do a degree, and then either can't find a job or don't want to use their degree. I remember when I was at university loads of students were going on these marches about tuition fees despite the fact most of them were doing degrees that wouldn't really help them get a job.

My degree enabled me to get my job, but I've never used anything I learnt. I sometimes think that all a degree does is say you did a degree, if you see what I mean. So many jobs now will take people with 'any degree'. Also, with more and more people doing them, they're becoming less meaningful, PLUS they're getting easier. My course was far too easy - you didn't have to be clever to pass.

So my big debt got me a certificate that got me through my employer's door, but the guy sitting behind me right now does the same job as me and I don't think he's even got an A-level.

I'm undecided. I think in some professions, like medicine and law, it's necessary, but sometimes I wonder what some of these courses are all about ('Womens Studies', for example).

Attainment of a degree is profitable to the individual. Over their working life graduates earn, on average, approximately 25% more than non-graduates with 2 or more GCE 'A' Levels.

I work in Shipping and I know that in this industry, certain International companies take in their fair share of graduates, they're largely dunces who studies media studies, theology or something else that has nothing to do with what their plying their trade in now - devoid of common sense and robotic in their thought.

I agree with higher education for those who are usually going to make a very good living out of the end product such as Doctors, Dentists and solicitors who have to know their chosen field inside out, I don't think they could do it without it.

I work in Shipping and I know that in this industry, certain International companies take in their fair share of graduates, they're largely dunces who studies media studies, theology or something else that has nothing to do with what their plying their trade in now - devoid of common sense and robotic in their thought.

At LJMU we produce graduates in Marine Operations, Maritime Business & Management, and Maritime Studies. Why do they employ Theologists???

I don't know, you'd have to ask them but they haven't a clue about shipping the ones i'm dealing with and they're not all based in Liverpool of course as well.

The Company I work for take on people who are unhappy where they are and can bring clients to our business and who have a background/knowledge in the task they will need to perform. We haven't needed to replace anyone for a good few years too as they're well looked after. We also take on school leavers of a certain standard who can be trained the right way from scratch.

Do your graduates sit cpc courses (tachograph rules etc) or dangerous goods (Hazchem) so they have knowledge in the road transport and warehousing regulations that is intertwined with overseas shipping? - certainly none of the graduates i've taken an interest in asking have.

I'm not suggesting that all successful or wealthy people are dishonest - but I think a genuine whiter than white, flawless tycoon would be in a minority :) you have to claw your way up in this world and being too soft and too honest and too above board gets you nowhere I'm afraid. I would be inclined to agree with you Lindy if not for a series and survey that appeared in Canada's Globe & Mail newspaper a couple of years ago. The series and survey concerned, over the past 30 years, self made millionaires across Canada and how they amassed their fortunes. A very high percentage (over 90%) attained their wealth status through real estate dealings. Now unless you are a real estate developer you will just be hiring an agent who will be doing all the dealings for you. Also, almost 100% of real estate transactions are conducted between a mutual willing seller and buyer.

The Canadian model may not be the experience in other jurisdictions, nor am I suggesting that all "Real Property" deals are ethical and above board, I'm not that naive. However, if the stats are to be believed, and I have no reason to dispute them, it would seem that, in Canada at least, millionaires are not necessarily all "Robber Barons".

Do your graduates sit cpc courses (tachograph rules etc) or dangerous goods (Hazchem) so they have knowledge in the road transport and warehousing regulations that is intertwined with overseas shipping? - certainly none of the graduates i've taken an interest in asking have.

It's not my subject area so I don't know the details of the degree courses that I mentioned earlier but you can see outlines of them below:


Marine Operations (http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/MKG_Global_Docs/marine_operations_bsc_ft.pdf)
Maritime Business and Management (http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/MKG_Global_Docs/maritime_business_and_management_BSc.pdf)
Maritime Studies (http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/MKG_Global_Docs/maritime_studies_BSc.pdf)

Sorry Sloyne, I misunderstood.

You have a fair point. So many people go to university and do a degree, and then either can't find a job or don't want to use their degree. I remember when I was at university loads of students were going on these marches about tuition fees despite the fact most of them were doing degrees that wouldn't really help them get a job.

My degree enabled me to get my job, but I've never used anything I learnt. I sometimes think that all a degree does is say you did a degree, if you see what I mean. So many jobs now will take people with 'any degree'. Also, with more and more people doing them, they're becoming less meaningful, PLUS they're getting easier. My course was far too easy - you didn't have to be clever to pass.

So my big debt got me a certificate that got me through my employer's door, but the guy sitting behind me right now does the same job as me and I don't think he's even got an A-level.

I'm undecided. I think in some professions, like medicine and law, it's necessary, but sometimes I wonder what some of these courses are all about ('Womens Studies', for example).

.. and philosophy .. what use is that ???

.. and philosophy .. what use is that ???

See here (http://www.liv.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/brochures/philosophy.pdf)...

"Philosophy expands and broadens the mind like no other subject."

gobbledegook :D


-- I'm sure it is fascinating and absorbing stuff. :ninja: :)

gobbledegook :D


-- I'm sure it is fascinating and absorbing stuff. :ninja: :)

Did I ever tell you about the fundamental difference between naive methodological falsificationism and sophisticated methodological falsificationism? :rolleyes:

:shock: no Howie you never did tell me !! lol !

:D

Basic Education like things that you'd need to know In adult hood are necessary.

Things like Maths and English needed for jobs, paying bills, measuring for DIY.

I learned DIY from my mum though anyway, so much for woodwork In school haha.

I wasn't good at school anyway, except for French which I was strangely average In, I was In the lower set classes In other subjects. I knew basic maths though and I could spell easy, I didn't use full stops or commas and stuff though till I left school and used a computer.

Think I failed things because of handwriting, can;t help It my hands get cramped writing so I have to go slow but I felt like I had to write fast cause everyone else did.

Other lessons like French, science subjects aren't necessary. Guess they're needed to be taught so students can have to choice to go further with something In future though.

School Is an ugly experience In life. I learned more and became smarter than the average human when I left school. Most people lack common decency and sense, yet their supposed to be educated.

Most people lack common decency and sense, yet their supposed to be educated.
I think I would say many rather than most, but you are right Max. :sad:

Max,
I have always had the problem of cramped hands when writing, I think it is common in people with big hands. I solved it by using big fat pens, works for me so you try it.

Some of the lessons need to be replaced or at least supplimented by learning things that will actually be useful during your life, like changing a tyre, a starter motor, a lecky plug or a tap to save on extortionate garage and tradesmens charges :)

I'm all for people out there that havent necessarily got high education levels and did great in life. I'm sure there lives can be quite fulfiling and good, but I draw the line when people start saying that educated people lack decency, common sense or practical knowledge. I agree some people lack decency but I doubt it has much to do with there education level, they come in all shapes and sizes beleive me. I couldn't agree more with Ged that everyone needs to learn to do some practical things, general knowledge is necessary. But I think every field of study is of interest and has it's usefulness. I myself studied litterature, among other things, and was told for years that it was usseless and I wouldn't find a job. Well theres not one day that I dont use the knowledge I was given at work or elsewhere, and I find I get projects some others don't get because I have certain skills that are quite useful. As for my definition of sucess it has alot more to do with being happy in what you do than with being rich or financially well off, granted not being dirt poor helps a bit but you only need so much money to live. So if your happy in life no matter if you went to college or not your all a sucess to me. Personally if it wasn't for school I wouldnt be able to write this because I only learned english, wich is a second language where I live, much later in life. So all I can say about the level of education people choose is to do what ever makes them happy.
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