I have started this here to move it from the "guess the location thread"

We seem to be finding similar crosses in West Derby, Huyton and Bromborough

here is the huyton one

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/huyt20.jpg

do you know of any more?

this one is in Childwall, but not the same as the others.

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/c7.jpg

Nice idea for a thread Gnomie.

The Garston Cross is to be found in the grounds of St Francis of Assisi Roman catholic Church. Earp St where it was re- erected from its previous location at the junction of Chapel Rd and Earp St. Originally it was sited alongside the Garston Brook near the junction of the present day St Mary's Rd and Church Rd.

Other places that still have crosses (or the remains of the base to the cross), are Roby Cross (this also acts a boundary stone), Hunts Cross, Cronton Cross.

A few notes on the Cross at Childwall:

This cross, one of only half a dozen ancient monuments Liverpool possess at all, lay in ruins in a field off Childwall Lane until 1935. When it was decided to widen Childwall Lane, it was agreed that the cross should be re-erected and set in a 15' recess not far from its original site. It was amazing luck that it had survived for so long.
Some of the steps were, infact, buried and only recovered by excavation. Lord Salisbury, besides, sending a donation, very kindly provided the site.
The old dismembered ruins were dug out, and 3 steps and the base stone numbering 22 sandstone blocks in all were found complete but no trace of the missing shaft.
The blocks were re-assembled in their original formation and were surmounted with a new shaft rising nearly 10' from ground level, quite plain in appearance and with short arms, identicle with what were presumed to have been the original proportions. The cross was erected in an embayment with a semi-circular stone seat around it, only 5 years from where it may have stood for 600 years. The Cross at Childwall would appear to have been a market cross; it is of great antiquity and its base is too big for a wayside cross.

The picture below shows the cross base in 1915.

3401

Wonderful information on the cross at Childwall, Cadfael. Many thanks.

Chris

Agreed.

Thanks for the info Cadfael:PDT11

I knew the cross had been found in a field. the one next to the church i believe. never knew the other info. cheers mucka

There's a wayside cross on a country lane near Lunt in Sefton which I think was used as a station for the pallbearers to rest the coffin on their way to burial at the church. I used to cycle by it coming from my auntie's on Water Street, Thornton. As I recall this was just a cross base but there is a complete ancient cross at Little Crosby (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/152586) and another at Ince Blundell (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/95036) that looks to be either a restoration or a newer cross. Sefton (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/335512) itself has a cross that is a war memorial.

Chris

Nice idea for a thread Gnomie.

The Garston Cross is to be found in the grounds of St Francis of Assisi Roman catholic Church. Earp St where it was re- erected from its previous location at the junction of Chapel Rd and Earp St. Originally it was sited alongside the Garston Brook near the junction of the present day St Mary's Rd and Church Rd.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/269213307_db22da8359.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/269213307/)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/34/269213176_18bf2dbc78.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ijob/269213176/)

Great to see, thanks, Kev! :handclap:

Can someone come up with a pic of the cross at Hunt's Cross?

Chris

I'll post a pic tonight of the Hunts Cross. It's located 2 minutes walk from Hunts Cross train station. Head South out of the station towards the main crossroads. At the crossroads just look to the right...its surrounded by some railings, by a Bank.

I'll post a pic tonight of the Hunts Cross. It's located 2 minutes walk from Hunts Cross train station. Head South out of the station towards the main crossroads. At the crossroads just look to the right...its surrounded by some railings, by a Bank.

Many thanks, marky. I'll look forward to it. I am familiar with cross because one of my aunts lived on Higher Road and we would pass it on the Crosville bus on the way to her house.

Chris

Looking forward to it too.

Has anyone got the Roby Cross? i may get up there to take one. i believe its on Roby road.

The Hunts Cross...located at the junction where Hillfoot Road and Hillfoot Avenue meet (just before the crossroads with Speke Road).
I've seen pics on the 'net of the Roby and Cronton crosses, but I'll get pics of my own sometime.

The Hunts Cross...located at the junction where Hillfoot Road and Hillfoot Avenue meet (just before the crossroads with Speke Road).
I've seen pics on the 'net of the Roby and Cronton crosses, but I'll get pics of my own sometime.


Great to see, marky, many thanks. I also look forward to seeing you pics of the Roby and Cronton crosses if you can manage them as well. :)

Chris

I suppose I'll have to go Bromborough some time this week. :002:

I have got photos - somewhere - but it's finding them!

There is also a Saxon "preaching cross" at Bromborough.

I suppose I'll have to go Bromborough some time this week. :002:

I have got photos - somewhere - but it's finding them!

There is also a Saxon "preaching cross" at Bromborough.

Thanks, Philip. That would be wonderful if you could get photos of those crosses "across the water." :)

Chris

Not as old as some of those old crosses already posted but he did play on for quite some time.

If Ged`s doing it i am:)




a famous Liverpool Cross



















GOOD OLD HARRY

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/HARRY2.jpg

Ah Bill Dean, our favourite grump. I have a soft spot for him as he fought in Italy during WW2.

Ha ha and a very good BLUE of course. Sorry to sidetrack your very good thread Tony, back to the subject.

Sorry to sidetrack your very good thread Tony, back to the subject.


Its ok Ged, im not cross.

right enough of that.

I shall try and get the Roby one tomorrow if i have time.

any good road markers. i have one somewhere i will post soon.

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/thingwall.gif

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/thingwall1.gif

Knotty Ash

Not sure how old this is? anyone know of it.

I know Slemon made a story up about it of a fella in a tall hat:rolleyes:

Did he?

nO dODDY - BEAT YOU TO IT HA HA

Not sure how old this is? anyone know of it.


Link to it here...http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/96991

Thanks Mark:PDT11 i never knew that

Hi Tony

Is it a cross or a mileage marker? The lettering at the top might indicate the latter, though of course they might have adapted an old cross. The hatching on the shaft of the cross tells me though that the monument is possibly not medieval, maybe eighteenth century also going by the style of lettering.

Chris

Not sure chris. i assume from Marks link it is not as old as i thought. still i put it up as its interesting.

Link to it here...http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/96991

Oh aye, as per the link, not a cross:

"Sandstone Signpost, Thingwall
This sandstone signpost, dated 1776, is inscribed with the initials of James Clemens, Lord Mayor of Liverpool 1775-1776 who owned the lovely house, Ashfield, which was recently demolished following a fire. Situated at the junction of Thomas Lane and Thingwall Lane, the entrance to Ashfield can be seen behind the pillar."

To whet your appetite until I get there.
3rd row - middle picture.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/images/thumbnails/1163.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/4/23/wirral-urban(1).html&h=88&w=110&sz=11&hl=en&start=2&sig2=WmQNXZdrZ_TJIWilBCdBRg&um=1&tbnid=rszyDNrEAo2HiM:&tbnh=68&tbnw=85&ei=C8RuRpGOHpTK0gSl6MjUBg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbromborough%2Bcross%26svnum%3D10%26um %3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US

Looks a good one phil:PDT11

To whet your appetite until I get there.
3rd row - middle picture.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/images/thumbnails/1163.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/4/23/wirral-urban(1).html&h=88&w=110&sz=11&hl=en&start=2&sig2=WmQNXZdrZ_TJIWilBCdBRg&um=1&tbnid=rszyDNrEAo2HiM:&tbnh=68&tbnw=85&ei=C8RuRpGOHpTK0gSl6MjUBg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbromborough%2Bcross%26svnum%3D10%26um %3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US

Looking forward to seeing your photo of the Bromborough Cross, Philip. Thanks in advance! :)

Chris

Link to it here...http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/96991


Same place - more pics:

3422

3423

3424

3425

Wonder if the 'Thingwell' inscription is a mistake or if it's correct and 'Thingwall' isn't. Nice to see Broad Green split as it should be. The council on newer signs put Broadgreen. I recently moved from Oak Hill Park off Broad Green Road and they've even done it to that in calling it Oakhill Park. :disgust:

Knottyash just wont work

or edgehill


nice link Cadfael. i should have stayed longer to look at it. i just took a couple of pics and went.

Bit more info on Thingwall:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=41305

Priory Wood, St Michaels Road. This is an interesting Toxteth Park cross, as it looks to me to have carved deer on it.
Feel free to guess what all the symbols mean...here are my wild guesses.

Top of cross...a bird is encircled by 2 entwined serpents. To the left and right of the centre of the cross (which is worn so I can't make out what was on it), look like a pair of dogs? on each side. The bottom of the cross has the body and head of a person, with their arms across their chest.

Shaft of cross...this has 6 squares of a design that I don't recognise (probably belongs to a family crest?), below this are some animals which I think include deer. At the very bottom of the cross shaft are some circles, which again I don't know.

^^:handclap::handclap:^^ wow!

Not sure of the history of this one. Sited at the junction of Speke Manor Rd and Woolton St.

Priory Wood, St Michaels Road. This is an interesting Toxteth Park cross, as it looks to me to have carved deer on it.
Feel free to guess what all the symbols mean...here are my wild guesses.

Top of cross...a bird is encircled by 2 entwined serpents. To the left and right of the centre of the cross (which is worn so I can't make out what was on it), look like a pair of dogs? on each side. The bottom of the cross has the body and head of a person, with their arms across their chest.

Shaft of cross...this has 6 squares of a design that I don't recognise (probably belongs to a family crest?), below this are some animals which I think include deer. At the very bottom of the cross shaft are some circles, which again I don't know.

Very interesting, Marky. I have always been under the impression that everything in St. Michael's is a nineteenth century invention although this has the appearance of being a Saxon or Celtic cross. It is either cleverly done or, I should say, a transplant from somewhere else. Anybody else know anything about it?

Chris

Not sure of the history of this one. Sited at the junction of Speke Manor Rd and Woolton St.

Thumbs up on your posting of the pics of the Woolton cross as well, Taffy. The inscriptions on the copper band are curious.

Chris

CRUX POTESTAS BEI is along the lines of

CRUX - Cross
POTESTAS - Power
BEI - With or At

Not sure of the history of this one. Sited at the junction of Speke Manor Rd and Woolton St.

It's Grade 2 listed and was erected in 1350.

Damaged at a later date, it was restored in 1913 when Woolton was incorporated in to Liverpool.

Thank you both, MarkA and Cadfael, for the additional interesting information that you have provided on the Woolton cross.

Chris

Re Priory Wood cross:
I'd assumed it was from the Priory near to the 'cazzy' and incorporated into the wall around the time of the Garden Festival/development of Priory Wood.

Priory Wood, St Michaels Road. .



Look what came out when i took a pic

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/crossy.jpg

Spooky

Look what came out when i took a pic

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/crossy.jpg

Spooky

You best get on to sLemon straight away :unibrow:

Look what came out when i took a pic

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/crossy.jpg

Spooky

...a minute later Gnomie realises just where that smoke was coming from :unibrow:
http://mayhem-chaos.net/photoblog/images/jmm_07_burn.jpg

No ghost on my pic, unfortunately.
This 'cross' put up at the time of the Garden Festival, and at the same time a booklet was issued by the St Michael's Hamlet Society about the history of the area.
It mentions the arch, which came from the house, the Priory, but doesn't menton this cross, which, as Marky says also probably came from the house.
If it had been ancient, it would have been mentioned somewhere.
Besides, it looks Victorian.

There are three 'crosses' near St Barnabus Church (where I was a choirboy).

Bromborough Cross.
The base and steps are possibly late 13th century and the shaft and head were added in 1874.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1216/543670472_4f8b0b0f4c_o.jpg

The Preaching Cross.
Fragments of a Saxon Cross - possibly 10th century - were reassembled, with plain blocks added so it can be easily seen which are the old parts.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1217/543771009_62dddd884f_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1374/543670572_ac3a0f8afa_o.jpg

The War Memorial.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1290/543771079_ee3c8c4266_o.jpg

This was the view I really wanted, but the late evening sun was shining right at me.
From left to right the buildings are:
the former Irwins where I was the 'order boy'; the primary school I went to for a few months before going to the local secondary school; (the church is off to the right); and the church institute where I was in the cubs, then the scouts.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1382/543770915_bc6105482f_o.jpg

the Cross in Whitney Gardens Shaw Street
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/warmem.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/liverpool_regiment1.gif

http://www.memorials.inportsmouth.co.uk/old-portsmouth/liverpool_regiment.htm

No ghost on my pic, unfortunately.
This 'cross' put up at the time of the Garden Festival, and at the same time a booklet was issued by the St Michael's Hamlet Society about the history of the area.
It mentions the arch, which came from the house, the Priory, but doesn't menton this cross, which, as Marky says also probably came from the house.
If it had been ancient, it would have been mentioned somewhere.
Besides, it looks Victorian.

Great photographs, Gnomie, MarkA, Philip, and Mandy. Enjoyed them all immensely.

Philip, the St. Michael's cross looks old to me, or at least in my view the carvings could be ancient, Saxon or Celtic. Although I agree with you that if it was really old one would think someone would have mentioned it. If it is a mock-up and most probably it is a Victorian "replica", to my mind, it is a pretty good simulation of an old one.

Chris

Replica Cross, Liverpool Maritime Museum (2nd floor). I forgot to take a pic. of the information panel for this one. Anyway, I recognise the top-right photo as the Bromborough Saxon cross.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee262/south_liverpool/Replica_Cross.jpg

No photo here but does anyone remember the old cross in Brookside ?

Harry Cross!!!
(Sorry,I couldn't resist):PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Another Cross from the Wirral, the lesser known Tranmere Cross

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2023/20071008077io0.jpg
Tranmere Cross, Victoria Park, Tranmere Village
Tranmere Cross stands at the Church Road Entrance to Victoria Park, in the centre of the old village of Tranmere.The cross was re-set here in 1937 after being moved from the Church Road/Dial Road junction. It was moved due to the demolition of Tranmere Old Hall (where it was sited for a spell) and also due to the widening/straightening of Church Road.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2066/20071008079xw3.jpg
Tranmere Cross, Victoria Park, Tranmere Village Local historians think that the cross was carved during the 1500's. The face you see above is one of two which were originally carved.

Reference: Sidelights on Tranmere by JE Allinson

These two images will appear in a forthcoming update to Flickr which takes an extensive look at Tranmere in its current form.

PhilipG: I never knew Bromborough had three crosses! It most certainly is more famous for having a cross in the old village centre.

I once bought an old print, which was supposed to be the High Park Coffee House in Toxteth.
For years I couldn't verify it, and eventually I saw a picture in a book, and it turned out to be Tranmere Old Hall!
I'll take a photo of it in daylight tomorrow, and post it.

Phil, that would be very nice indeed! Sidelights on Tranmere (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sidelights-Tranmere-J-E-Allison/dp/0907768830/ref=sr_1_1/026-7374281-3998812?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192141809&sr=8-1) only has prints of Tranmere New Hall; this was demolished during the 1920's with the Tranmere Hall estate being on its grounds. I have been told there is a plaque on one of the houses; will have to venture round that way next time that part of Wirral is lucky enough to receive a visit from yours truly!

Located at the junction of Penny Lane/Hall Lane and Smithy Lane, Cronton.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee262/south_liverpool/Cronton_Cross.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee262/south_liverpool/Cronton_Cross_location.jpg

The Cronton cross is a bit of a paradox. One theory is that it was used as a resting place for pall bearers as they were carrying the coffins through the fields either to Widnes or Rainhill. I believe from a reliable source who is a historian, that there was another such cross in Cronton on Sandy Lane where it meets Cronton Road but that the stonework was stolen in the 1940s or 1950s.

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/htrr005.jpg

Roby Cross

The Cronton cross is a bit of a paradox. One theory is that it was used as a resting place for pall bearers as they were carrying the coffins through the fields either to Widnes or Rainhill. I believe from a reliable source who is a historian, that there was another such cross in Cronton on Sandy Lane where it meets Cronton Road but that the stonework was stolen in the 1940s or 1950s.


Hi Chris et al.

Such crosses were used as a resting place for pall bearers as they were carrying the coffins. The cross that is on the country lane in lane between Thornton and Sefton was used for such a purpose, as discussed earlier in this thread.

Fine photographs and information here, everyone! :handclap:

Chris

the Cross in Whitney Gardens Shaw Street
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/warmem.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/robbo176/liverpool_regiment1.gif

http://www.memorials.inportsmouth.co.uk/old-portsmouth/liverpool_regiment.htm
Went through there today took a pic of the inscription on the base.http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/P1010809.jpg
There`s a story on the base. It was first erected in Portsmouth 1863,then moved to Chelsea in 1877 before finally arriving in Liverpool in 1911

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/P1010810.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/P1010811.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/P1010812.jpg

Very interesting, Gregs Dad. Thanks. May those soldiers rest in peace.

Chris

The Cronton cross is a bit of a paradox. One theory is that it was used as a resting place for pall bearers as they were carrying the coffins through the fields either to Widnes or Rainhill. I believe from a reliable source who is a historian, that there was another such cross in Cronton on Sandy Lane where it meets Cronton Road but that the stonework was stolen in the 1940s or 1950s.

There is another one in Rainhill, I heard a similar story and also it marks dick turpins horses burial place i'm told

Hi all

The following information that I found about a cross at Todmorden in Calderdale, West Yorkshire (http://www.calderdale.gov.uk/environment/conservation/ancient-monuments/monuments-full.jsp?propno=HSK54ODWL2000&lbrefno=23359&address=Mount+Cross%0DKebs+Road%0DTodmorden%0D%0D) , may prove illuminating (it looks as if the same information is repeated on web pages for other crosses registered as ancient monuments in Calderdale). The narrative may be a bit Yorks.- and Southwest-centric since it does not seem to take allowance of the large number of crosses that I know of and that we have been picturing in the Merseyside area. The description also applies to the authentically medieval crosses of course as well, and not to Victorian or 20th Century crosses such as the one pictured above for the King's Regiment.

Chris

Wayside crosses are one of several types of Christian cross erected during the medieval period, mostly from the 9th to 15th centuries AD. In addition to serving the function of reiterating and reinforcing the Christian faith amongst those who passed the cross and of reassuring the traveller, wayside crosses often fulfilled a role as waymarkers, especially in difficult and otherwise unmarked terrain. The crosses might be on regularly used routes linking ordinary settlements or on routes having a more specifically religious function, including those providing access to religious sites for parishioners and funeral processions, or marking long-distance routes frequented on pilgrimages.

Over 350 wayside crosses are known nationally, concentrated in south west England throughout Cornwall and on Dartmoor where they form the commonest type of stone cross. A small group also occurs on the North York Moors. Relatively few examples have been recorded elsewhere and these are generally confined to remote moorland locations.

Outside Cornwall almost all wayside crosses take the form of a 'Latin' cross, in which the cross-head itself is shaped within the projecting arms of an unenclosed cross. In Cornwall wayside crosses vary considerably in form and decoration. The commonest type includes a round, or 'wheel', head on the faces of which various forms of cross or related designs were carved in relief or incised, the spaces between the cross arms possibly pierced. The design was sometimes supplemented with a relief figure of Christ and the shaft might bear decorative panels and motifs. Less common forms in Cornwall include the 'Latin' cross and, much rarer, the simple slab with a low relief cross on both faces. Rare examples of wheel-head and slab-form crosses also occur within the North York Moors Group. Most wayside crosses have either a simple socketed base or show no evidence for a separate base at all.

Wayside crosses contribute significantly to our understanding of medieval religious customs and sculptural traditions and to our knowledge of medieval routeways and settlement patterns. All wayside crosses which survive as earthfast monuments, except those which are extremely damaged and removed from their original locations, are considered worthy of protection.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/747152221_3744fb4b0d.jpg
This is the Weeping Stone in St Chads Gardens in Kirkby originally a cross called the Park Brow Cross.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/747152189_badb79b58b.jpg
the inscription

Crosby village
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/quincyg/Picture1227.jpg

Seel St
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/quincyg/urban%20misc/Picture2177.jpg

Wonderful thread and such great pics. Chris has mentioned the wayside crosses at Thornton. There were numerous crosses which were utilised in this way. Makes you think about how difficult it was to transport the dead across often heavily wooded or boggy land to get to churches for burial (what a job). In the case of the Thornton, it was one of (so local knowledge around here goes) 12 or so which led from the coast to St Helens Church in Sefton Village (between Netherton and Maghull) Those washed up on the shores of the Mersey were carried a distance of near 7 miles to this lovely church for burial. Not only do we have these lovely crosses but we also have a magic well!!! St Helens Well is situated not far from the Thornton Cross and in a field near the Punchbowl Pub. After we finish crosses perhaps we could do one on wells. I havent seen any other steams or wells with reputed magic or healing powers except St Helens and the one in St James Cemetery.

Wonderful thread and such great pics. Chris has mentioned the wayside crosses at Thornton. There were numerous crosses which were utilised in this way. Makes you think about how difficult it was to transport the dead across often heavily wooded or boggy land to get to churches for burial (what a job). In the case of the Thornton, it was one of (so local knowledge around here goes) 12 or so which led from the coast to St Helens Church in Sefton Village (between Netherton and Maghull) Those washed up on the shores of the Mersey were carried a distance of near 7 miles to this lovely church for burial. Not only do we have these lovely crosses but we also have a magic well!!! St Helens Well is situated not far from the Thornton Cross and in a field near the Punchbowl Pub. After we finish crosses perhaps we could do one on wells. I havent seen any other steams or wells with reputed magic or healing powers except St Helens and the one in St James Cemetery.

Thanks, Partsky, for that information about the Thornton crosses. St. Helen's Church at Sefton is a lovely old church. As you say, it would be great to have a thread on wells that would include St. Helen's Well near the church in Sefton. It could include other ancient wells such as the Monk's Well in Wavertree, etc.

Chris

Seel St
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/quincyg/urban%20misc/Picture2177.jpg

Great pic Quincy!
(We won't tell them about the blokes in the background having lunch! hehe)

After they removed the spire from the church tower:

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/cadfael2008/Picture034.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/cadfael2008/Picture036.jpg

Great pic Quincy!
(We won't tell them about the blokes in the background having lunch! hehe)
lol...that was funny though. I thought I'd clicked.

St Patrick's , Park Place

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/quincyg/urban%20misc/Picture2247.jpg

That shot looks good framed with the branches :handclap:

That shot looks good framed with the branches :handclap:

Gracias. I'd like to take the credit for being clever and arty...but I had to stick camera through the railings as there was no access to the cross. It got me some odd looks I must say lol. I just aim and hope for the best.