Ashfield Cottages—Hopwood Street—1900's

[joge]

Hello All,
My Grandparents, Thomas & Mary Manley, brought up a family of nine children in Ashfield Cottages in late 1890's early 1900's.
Apart from that I have found nothing about Ashfield Cottages, which I think were in Hopwood Street [?].
Any info/pics — anything at all?
Thanks in advance
Joge:)

[Gnomie]

Hi Joge and welcome:)

I had rellies in Ashfield cottages and in Ashfield gardens. cant find any pics for the gardens though. I think ( i may get corrected ) that they where near St Martins cottages, was that ashfield street? between Sylvester and Hopwood street.

Im sure someone will give a better idea.

good luck.

Tony.

[joge]

Hi, and thanks for replies and pics.
Massive re-assessment of my mental image of what Ashfield Cottages might have looked like!! "Cottages" indeed — someone in the planning department had a wondefully ironic sense of humour when it came to naming those tenements.
I'm still trying to pin down their exact location — hence the 1890 map [Which I hope I've attached O.K.].
This is from the check list of Corporation "Dwellings" provided by Philip G:—
1868-9 Housing: St Martin's Cottages, Vauxhall Road/Silvester Street. Built 1868-69. Opened 1869. 124 units. These were Liverpool's (& Britain's) 1st Corporation Housing.


I presume St. Martins Cottages is as indicated, and I'm guessing Ashfield Cottages is off Hopwood St.

Thanks again.

Joge

[PhilipG]

Here's Ashfield Cottages on the 1925 OS map. (Source: LRO).
They're also shown on the 1905 OS reprint by Alan Godfrey.
I'm reasonably sure that they were privately built rather than Corporation "Dwellings".
My list is probably complete for all Corpy-built housing before 1920.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2598&highlight=corporation+dwellings

[Ged]

As you can see joge, St. Martin's cottages went right down to Vauxhall road and a pic of them can be seen on the Scottie press website supplied earlier on by Gerard, so the first OS map you put up doesn't contain them but instead shows a works. Ashfield cottages are shown on Phil's 2nd OS map and they were situated in Ashfield st from where the 'cottages' get their name.

[PhilipG]

As you can see joge, St. Martin's cottages went right down to Vauxhall road and a pic of them can be seen on the Scottie press website supplied earlier on by Gerard, so the first OS map you put up doesn't contain them but instead shows a works. Ashfield cottages are shown on Phil's 2nd OS map and they were situated in Ashfield st from where the 'cottages' get their name.

Ged, I didn't say before, but Joge's map isn't the 1890 OS.
I don't actually recognise his map, but I've got most of the 1890 sheet 106.10, but not the top bit where Ashfield Cottages were.

[Ged]

You've got some great maps there Phil. I've copied some of those LRO ones but as you know they're laminated and huge so inevitably, unless you do the whole lot bit by bit on their little A4 copier, there will be bits you miss off.

[PhilipG]

You've got some great maps there Phil. I've copied some of those LRO ones but as you know they're laminated and huge so inevitably, unless you do the whole lot bit by bit on their little A4 copier, there will be bits you miss off.

You can do A3 size as long as the maps are over 75 years old (or is that 50?).
I've got so many they stand about a foot high! :PDT_Piratz_26:

[Ged]

Some more here.

http://www.mersey-gateway.org/pastliverpool/galleries/housing/flats/flats2.htm

[PhilipG]

Some more here.

http://www.mersey-gateway.org/pastliverpool/galleries/housing/flats/flats2.htm

There's photos of Ashfield Cottages there, but more importantly an 1891 map which shows them.
Because they existed in 1891 they definitely weren't Corpy housing, as the first three examples are known.
See the link to my list, above.

[Cadfael]

A note or two on St Martin-in-the-fields Church which stood on Silvester Street:

Great Oxford Street was later renamed Silvester Street and is situated off Vauxhall Road, Liverpool 5. The foundation stone f the church of St Martin-in-the-fields was laid in 1825 and the church with its parochial burial ground was consecrated on 16th January 1829. It was built to the designs of John Foster Jr. St Martin's was bombed in 1941 and the parish was merged with that of Our Lady and St Nicholas in 1949.

There is also more information at:

http://www.scottiepress.org.uk/projects/remember.htm

The illustration below is by Michael P Treanor:

3163

[Ged]

Yes, it was known as the Black Church due to James Muspratt's chemical works which discoloured it for which he was prosecuted.

[Ged]

Phil. If the first 3 lots of municipal housing were up by 1890. Why couldn't Ashfield Cottages be so too, assuming they were only built in the year of that map?

[PhilipG]

Phil. If the first 3 lots of municipal housing were up by 1890. Why couldn't Ashfield Cottages be so too, assuming they were only built in the year of that map?

That 1891 map would have been the year it was published, so would show the situation as it was in 1890.
The third Corpy Housing was completed in December 1890.

Also, I'm almost certain that I've got all of them before 1900, and most of them before 1920.

But, If I'm wrong, I'll put my hands up.
I wonder if Joge will be able to confirm one way or another.

[Ged]

I've a hunch you're right anyway. How common were privately built tenements like that back then, do you know?

[PhilipG]

I've a hunch you're right anyway. How common were privately built tenements like that back then, do you know?

I don't know, Ged, but I've got a lot of the 1890ish OS maps, so I'll start looking.
The 1863 map is excellent and shows places like the Model Lodging Houses in Northumberland Street, so my guess is there were probably quite a lot by 1890.

[joge]

Hi,

Thanks for all replies, most informative, helpful and generous.

The Old map I'm referring to is:—
"C.1890 street map of Liverpool" which is on CD supplied by S&N Genealogy Supplies.

I'm chasing my ancestors all over Everton, Kirkdale, Toxteth, etc and would love to be able to see more of Philip's 1925 map. I'm not sure about the protocol here but, Phil, and chance of getting hold of a copy?

Cheers

Joge

[PhilipG]

Hi,

Thanks for all replies, most informative, helpful and generous.

The Old map I'm referring to is:—
"C.1890 street map of Liverpool" which is on CD supplied by S&N Genealogy Supplies.

I'm chasing my ancestors all over Everton, Kirkdale, Toxteth, etc and would love to be able to see more of Philip's 1925 map. I'm not sure about the protocol here but, Phil, and chance of getting hold of a copy?

Cheers

Joge

Joge, if you're local, you can photocopy the 1925 OS map at the Record Office in Liverpool Central Library.
If not, you can get the 1905 OS map by post from Alan Godfrey (about £2).
Do a Google and you'll find them.
Either way, the one showing Ashfield Cottages is "Lancashire Sheet 106.10".

I can scan other streets for you (or anybody).
Let me know if you'd like 1905 or 1925.

[chippie]

Philip, you mentioned an 1863 map that you have, does this show the top of Breck Road area? If so could you e mail it to me. The Breck Road area not the map:rolleyes:

[PhilipG]

Philip, you mentioned an 1863 map that you have, does this show the top of Breck Road area? If so could you e mail it to me. The Breck Road area not the map:rolleyes:

Hello Chippie.

The best I can do at the moment is 1873, which is a smaller scale than 1863.
It's in the 'Maps of Liverpool' thread.
Exactly which street were you interested in, because my 1863 stops at Breckfield Road South?

[chippie]

In the Freddy O,Connor book, Our City Our Heritage, it states that Washington Street was one of the first streets laid out and later changed it,s name to Desmond Street. The date mentioned was 1830 for Washington Street and I was wondering when it was renamed.


Thanks Phil anyway:)

[PhilipG]

In the Freddy O,Connor book, Our City Our Heritage, it states that Washington Street was one of the first streets laid out and later changed it,s name to Desmond Street. The date mentioned was 1830 for Washington Street and I was wondering when it was renamed.


Thanks Phil anyway:)

Desmond Street ran parallel with Breck Road, at the start of Heyworth Street. It is called Desmond Street on the 1873 map.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3167&d=1180468573
An 1836 map shows Washington Street (which became Desmond Street).
If it helps, there were loads of streets in Toxteth renamed in the 1860s, because after Toxteth became part of Liverpool, there were streets with the same name in both districts.
For example Rodney Street in Toxteth became Admiral Street, and Bedford Street became Beaufort Street.

[joge]

hi,
Phil, I'm in London — thanks for the Alan Godfrey ref., I'm investigating that.

One other puzzle you, or your cohorts, may be able to help with — I keep coming across references to "Saltines" — what and where are "Saltines"?

Regards

Joge

[lindylou]

The only Saltines I know about are little savoury biscuits :) :)

[Ged]

Desmond Street ran parallel with Breck Road, at the start of Heyworth Street. It is called Desmond Street on the 1873 map.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3167&d=1180468573
An 1836 map shows Washington Street (which became Desmond Street).
If it helps, there were loads of streets in Toxteth renamed in the 1860s, because after Toxteth became part of Liverpool, there were streets with the same name in both districts.
For example Rodney Street in Toxteth became Admiral Street, and Bedford Street became Beaufort Street.


Fantastic information Phi. Thanks for sharing this with us.

[joge]

When my Granny married in 1887 she was living in Carey St. This was next to Abstinence St. in the area renowned for the poor quality of its health, sanitation and life expectancy. These streets were so bad they were wiped out sometime before 1906 [O.S. map 1906]. They are shown on my "alleged" map of c.1890.
They are shown more clearly on an 1891 map found at toxteth.net [can't do links!!?].
http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverpool/general/abstinence%20street.htm
[Maybe I can?!?]
Does anyone have a copy from which they can show me a larger area?