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bunf
01-04-2007, 07:16 PM
does anyone have any info or pics of this long forgotten station?

the only info i have is that it closed around 90(!) years ago and has been left ever since

we took this picture a couple of months back and would be fascinated if anyone could shed some more light

Kev
01-04-2007, 07:19 PM
This has fascinated me ever since I was kid, we used to travel into town on the train and they would always slow right down around this area and I would wonder about what it all was down there.

There are steps down to the railway from high above all around there.

Any info would be appreciated.

shytalk
01-04-2007, 07:30 PM
The facade of the station was still intact in the 70's at the junction of Parly and Park Place.:037:

bunf
01-04-2007, 07:30 PM
hi kev

whilst we were looking around there we noticed that the doors were completely sealed.

there is a mechanics that backs onto the side of the station, and I wonder if they could see more from their premises?

there are also some flats overlooking it, if only we knew someone that lived there!!

:(

MissInformed
01-04-2007, 07:38 PM
there was a piece about the station in the echo a few years back, but my mum threw it away before i had a chance to read it! grrr

mums eh?:disgust:

floyd
01-04-2007, 07:52 PM
I have been lurking for a few days and it is absolutely fabulous what you are doing here to make people aware of their history and ancestry.
I joined after seeing the picture of St James Station and my boyfriend saying "See those steps, I have been down those hundreds of times"
He works on the railway and has access to the platforms and an interesting series of rooms that originally would have housed the station master and other platform staff. The rooms are located on the left of the photograph under the arched bridge (called bridge 6 on the schematic) and apparently contain general rubbish left by railway staff. He has promised to take some pictures of the rooms and surrounding area next time he is on days.
He thinks that if there was anything interesting such as signage or documents it would have been flogged by now but he will look anyway.


http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/central.jpg

bunf
01-04-2007, 07:59 PM
I have been lurking for a few days and it is absolutely fabulous what you are doing here to make people aware of their history and ancestry.
I joined after seeing the picture of St James Station and my boyfriend saying "See those steps, I have been down those hundreds of times"
He works on the railway and has access to the platforms and an interesting series of rooms that originally would have housed the station master and other platform staff. The rooms are located on the left of the photograph under the arched bridge (called bridge 6 on the schematic) and apparently contain general rubbish left by railway staff. He has promised to take some pictures of the rooms and surrounding area next time he is on days.
He thinks that if there was anything interesting such as signage or documents it would have been flogged by now but he will look anyway.


http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/central.jpg



wow!!!!!!!!!!

thats monumental!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats what i love about this forum! there is always someone who has some valuable info to share with everyone

thanks again

would love to see some pics!

:)

PhilipG
01-04-2007, 08:16 PM
I'm not an authority on Railways, but I've got some notes in my "Annals".

The stations at St Michael's, Otterspool and Mersey Road (now Aigburth) opened in 1864.
(I've no info on the others as far as Garston).

Central Station and St James' Station opened in 1874, but I don't know where the trains terminated in the previous 10 years.
It was said that St James Station was built for the congregation of St James Church, (which is just over the road), but that could be an urban myth.

St James closed in 1916 and Otterspool closed in 1951.

I think there was/is a book that tried to have photos of all Liverpool's stations.
Central Library should know.

This scan is from the OS map of 1890.

MissInformed
01-04-2007, 08:43 PM
fascinating philip.
any idea what that book would be called and how old it is?

marky
01-04-2007, 10:48 PM
Look for 'LIVERPOOL ST. JAMES' on this site for some info:
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/

ayjaykay
01-05-2007, 10:01 AM
Look for 'LIVERPOOL ST. JAMES' on this site for some info:
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/

Direct link: http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/l/liverpool_st_james/index.shtml

MissInformed
01-05-2007, 11:21 AM
yeah thats a good site, seen that before.
They do some mad things thosE Sub Britannica people!
I bet Jona is a member! :celb (6):

theninesisters
01-05-2007, 01:38 PM
yeah thats a good site, seen that before.
They do some mad things thosE Sub Britannica people!
I bet Jona is a member! :celb (6):

Hehe I'm not, but all the places in Liverpool that are 'managed' by Sub Brit, I have a very high up friend in Liverpool City Council who can get me in them.

Sub Brit did contact me though when they heard about my underground adventures in the Air Raid Shelters next to Littlewoods on Edge Lane! :)

MissInformed
01-05-2007, 03:55 PM
Hehe I'm not, but all the places in Liverpool that are 'managed' by Sub Brit, I have a very high up friend in Liverpool City Council who can get me in them.

Sub Brit did contact me though when they heard about my underground adventures in the Air Raid Shelters next to Littlewoods on Edge Lane! :)

ohhh i knew you would some sort of involvement!! he he:)

get me in these places too!! :celb (6):

oritelad
01-31-2007, 03:33 AM
Anyone got or knows how to get sum old photos of kirkdale station?

MarkA
01-31-2007, 04:31 AM
Just this one so far...

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m253/springy_01/Kirkdale1930s.jpg

scouserdave
01-31-2007, 06:38 AM
If it's not your photo, give credit.
Apart from that, it's a cracking pic. Thanks:PDT_Piratz_26:

oritelad
01-31-2007, 10:04 AM
wow thank you that photo is great! keep them coming guys kirkdale is a large station that pic only shows a small bit there are more platforms to the right in that pic

MarkA
02-01-2007, 01:22 PM
If it's not your photo, give credit.
Apart from that, it's a cracking pic. Thanks:PDT_Piratz_26:

Sorry Dave, I've only just realised.

Credit to 'Springy' off the Scouse House Forum whos scan it is.

Write out a thousand times - I must remember...:202 (1):

oritelad
02-06-2007, 10:24 AM
please can someone help me i am currently working on my new website www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk which is about liverpools railways, stations ect and i am stuck on exchange station as i found out it was not the original station i know it opened in 1850 and used to be called Tithebarn Street railway station and changed to exchange station in 1888 but before 1850 before echange station(tithebarn street station) there was another station near to that site does anyone have any info on this or where about the original staion was? only info i could find was of wikipida and it said:

''Liverpool Exchange railway station was a railway station located in Liverpool, England. It opened originally as Tithebarn Street railway station on 13 May 1850, replacing an earlier station at Great Homer street nearby. The station was extensively rebuilt and renamed in 1888, expanding from its original site to cover Clarke's Basin (the original end of the Leeds-Liverpool Canal)''

(but how can it be a great homer street thats miles away from the exchange station site?)

snappel
02-06-2007, 10:31 AM
Great Homer Street isn't that far from Exchange at all. Obviously they decided to bring the railway in closer to the city centre and build a proper terminus. To be honest the library in Liverpool is your best bet.

PhilipG
02-06-2007, 01:21 PM
There were no railways in Great Homer Street.

"In 1848 the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway opened the line between Liverpool and Wigan, Bolton, Bury and Rochdale. There was a temporary passenger terminus at Great Howard Street but the line was extended and the Tithebarn Street Station opened in 1850."
Source: Naomi Evetts, in the Alan Godfrey reprint of the OS map LIverpool (North), 1906, 106.10.

Great Howard Street then became a Goods Station.

Naomi Evetts was a librarian at the Record Office, so the present staff should know where she got her information.
It's also possible to buy the Godfrey maps there.

The original stations in Liverpool were at Crown Street and Lime Street.

oritelad
02-08-2007, 09:06 AM
well sum good info i have about st james station is that even though its been cloed for so long merseyrail have said they are to reopen it by 2011! aint that great i also have old photos of when the station was open i will upload to my site soon www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk

Fnarf
02-13-2007, 12:47 AM
My understanding is that Crown Street was the first railway station in the world, opening on the Liverpool-Manchester Railway -- the world's first -- in 1830. It was superceded just a few years later by Lime Street, after the difficult cut to there was finished, in 1836. After that, Crown Street was used for goods only, and was completely closed in 1972.

Shame it's not a major landmark now. I guess there's a plaque there. A sensitively done reconstruction would haul in rail nuts from around the globe.

Great Homer Street in the Exchange Station article on Wikipedia looks like a typo, unfortunately repeated in a couple of articles there, for Great Howard Street.

knowhowe
02-28-2007, 01:16 PM
We lived in Ursula Street off Hawthorne Road befor moving up to Crosby.
An early memory is of being pushed in my pram across a high footbridge over the railway near this station and being panic-stricken when engulfed in smoke from the trains beneath!

liverlad08
03-01-2007, 11:06 PM
is there any pic,s of crown street station
any have any

all so am looking for pictures of spellow station from when it was in use.
can anyone help please?

theninesisters
03-01-2007, 11:14 PM
is there any pic,s of crown street station
any have any

all so am looking for pictures of spellow station from when it was in use.
can anyone help please?

Crown Street - Source Liverpool City Council

PhilipG
03-01-2007, 11:15 PM
My understanding is that Crown Street was the first railway station in the world, opening on the Liverpool-Manchester Railway -- the world's first -- in 1830. It was superceded just a few years later by Lime Street, after the difficult cut to there was finished, in 1836. After that, Crown Street was used for goods only, and was completely closed in 1972.

Shame it's not a major landmark now. I guess there's a plaque there. A sensitively done reconstruction would haul in rail nuts from around the globe.

Great Homer Street in the Exchange Station article on Wikipedia looks like a typo, unfortunately repeated in a couple of articles there, for Great Howard Street.

Definitely Great Howard Street.
The station in Great Howard Street was the same site as the Borough Gaol.

oritelad
04-07-2007, 08:38 PM
anyone got any info on this?
anyone know where it is on google maps?
any traces left of this old station?
any photos?

oritelad
04-08-2007, 03:21 AM
please has anyone got photos of what kirkdale used to look like?

and did it have platforms for the canada dock branch and north liverpool extension that pass the kirkdale station site?

please has anyone got reasant photos of spellow station site can you still get to it from the station building on county road that is now a bookmakers or has the stairway been demolished? anychance someone could get some photos?

also anyone got photos inside of the 2 unused tunnels in the back corner of kirkdale station or can anyone get some if the are thinking of visiting the site?

sconhead
04-08-2007, 09:59 AM
oritelad
some info here on altcar and theres also a bit on spellow station aswell

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/

Shapers
04-09-2007, 12:47 AM
Is there any part of the Overhead Railway still standing?

Kev
04-09-2007, 08:07 AM
Is there any part of the Overhead Railway still standing?

Here the Overhead Railway Thread:

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1975

robbo176
04-09-2007, 09:41 AM
please has anyone got reasant photos of spellow station site can you still get to it from the station building on county road that is now a bookmakers or has the stairway been demolished? anychance someone could get some photos?


I can take photos from County Rd for you
Mandy

oritelad
04-10-2007, 11:43 PM
I can take photos from County Rd for you
Mandy

that would be great how would you do it i thought the only way was from arnot street school theres a little wall looking down onto the station site well they used to when i was in school there but i was never tall enogth to see what was left of the station lol i would go now but it wouldt look right me going into a kids playground to take pics over a wall lol

robbo176
04-10-2007, 11:51 PM
that would be great how would you do it i thought the only way was from arnot street school theres a little wall looking down onto the station site well they used to when i was in school there but i was never tall enogth to see what was left of the station lol i would go now but it wouldt look right me going into a kids playground to take pics over a wall lol

I have no idea as I'm only 5ft tall so I think even standing on tippee toes I still won't be tall enough:PDT10
I thought you wanted pics from County Rd
Mandy:)

oritelad
04-11-2007, 12:06 AM
no lol i have pics of county road of the old station building its now the bookies i just need to find a way to take pics of spellow station below county road thought your house backed onto it or something no worries i wil keep tryin please visit my website at www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk

robbo176
04-11-2007, 10:28 AM
no lol i have pics of county road of the old station building its now the bookies i just need to find a way to take pics of spellow station below county road thought your house backed onto it or something no worries i wil keep tryin please visit my website at www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk

no sorry I live close to Walton Rd
:)

goldenface
04-11-2007, 03:04 PM
@Oritelad

I have seen a picture of the station you are on about and I am trying to find it for you. Its a two-storey building with the platforms on the upper level.

In the mean time, I found this old picture of Exchange from here (http://27c-steamport.blogspot.com/).

For 50 points can anyone tell us what the huge domed shaped building is in the background on the right?

snappel
04-11-2007, 03:17 PM
Blimey! Check out the Formby Powerhouse photos on that website!!

Kev
04-11-2007, 05:29 PM
Walton Stations and Orrel Park Station - Pics courtesy of Liverpool City Library and the Records Office images:

Gnomie
04-11-2007, 05:36 PM
Nice one Kev:PDT11

Great pics these stations make.

Jericho
04-11-2007, 08:29 PM
@Oritelad

I have seen a picture of the station you are on about and I am trying to find it for you. Its a two-storey building with the platforms on the upper level.

In the mean time, I found this old picture of Exchange from here (http://27c-steamport.blogspot.com/).

For 50 points can anyone tell us what the huge domed shaped building is in the background on the right?

The old Customs House?

PhilipG
04-11-2007, 10:47 PM
@Oritelad

I have seen a picture of the station you are on about and I am trying to find it for you. Its a two-storey building with the platforms on the upper level.

In the mean time, I found this old picture of Exchange from here (http://27c-steamport.blogspot.com/).

For 50 points can anyone tell us what the huge domed shaped building is in the background on the right?



St Paul's Church in St Paul's Square.
The Stadium was built on the site.

Scouseinmanc
04-16-2007, 03:27 PM
Walton Stations and Orrel Park Station - Pics courtesy of Liverpool City Library and the Records Office images:

The first station pic is actually Walton & Anfield (Originally opened as Walton for Aintree, but the name was changed as it was very confusing for passengers, who alighted & found that Aintree was a fair few miles away!!). Walton & Anfield is not to be confused with the present Walton station on the Northern Line. It was located near to the Cherry Lane end of Walton Village & was part of the Canada Dock branch, but as with most of the stations on the line (incl Spellow, which was one stop away) it closed in 1948. There were proposals to reopen most of the stations on the Canada Dock branch, back in the 70's as part of new Merseyrail. However this never materialised and the line remained freight only. However, there is talk by Merseyrail of the possibility of reopening the branch to passengers once again in the future. You never know..!

marie
04-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Arenīt there any old station? In Liverpool or near...
Thanks u!!

mike delamar
04-18-2007, 10:59 PM
Anyone got or knows how to get sum old photos of kirkdale station?


this was taken in the late 1950s from stanley road, kirkdale station is in the distance, and on the left is bank hall, steam engine shed, which closed in 1966, theres an old electric train heading towards liverpool exchange and steam engines on shed, the sidings on the right have gone now, as as the huge coaling stage and old fashioned semaphore signals,

i know a gent who worked as a cleaner/fireman/driver on the steamers there from 1941 to 66, then he moved to edge hill, and retired in 1990


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/michaeldelz/bankhallshed502jintynew.jpg

goldenface
04-19-2007, 03:31 PM
Wow1 That must be a blast from the past for some people. How its changed now. Those old Electric Units were going for decades weren't they?

mike delamar
04-19-2007, 05:32 PM
yeah the old,

london midland and scottish railway ones (LMS)

"love marraige and starvation"

and

"let me sleep"

my old driver mate who used to work for the company calls it lol


theyre from the 30s and lasted til the late 70s,

my ol mate used to have to drive them sometimes on sundays and hated them, he said he called himself a glorified tram driver hehe


mike

oritelad
04-19-2007, 08:36 PM
wow that photo is great cant believe how much it has changed the lines to the right are even closed there and that was 1950 i went today in 2007 through the old tunnels it was a great experience

mike delamar
04-19-2007, 11:16 PM
yeah they where like an overspil carraige sidings for when the ones on the left where full up, like grand national or football specials etc, they went in the 60s

you cant see on this but to the extreme right in a cutting, another line ran from huskisson, which is by sandhills station to walton, the tunnel is in the far right corner

mike

oritelad
04-23-2007, 03:07 AM
yes thats the tunnel i walked through it leads to the old walton on the hill station there is also another tunnel next to it that leads to a dead end also theres another tunnel under it that leads to the old spellow station, kirkdale is boss i wish i could find a photo of when them to branches had platforms

Kev
04-23-2007, 06:03 PM
Central Station - 1890 - Liverpool Records Office

mike delamar
04-23-2007, 07:20 PM
yes thats the tunnel i walked through it leads to the old walton on the hill station there is also another tunnel next to it that leads to a dead end also theres another tunnel under it that leads to the old spellow station, kirkdale is boss i wish i could find a photo of when them to branches had platforms


the cheshire lines railway tunnels from kirkdale to walton on the hill?

is that what you mean there, that there is tunnels alongside it?

what that was, is that the tunnels were built in case the line ever had to be widened from 2 tracks to 4, but they never removed the cutting in front of them,

you can see that all along the bridges and tunnels on the the cheshire lines railway bike path to halewood, there wernt any platforms at kirkdale for this line,


kirkdale station on the lancashire and yorkshire railway, the one that is still used, only ever had the 2 platforms on the slow lines, same as it is now, the lines next to that which got lifted in the late 1960s early 70s where what was called the fast lines, from walton junction to liverpool exchange, trains that where not going to stop at kirkdale used these lines, because the electric trains stopped at every station,

ive got some more pics of the tunnels in the steam days somewhere, ill dig em out

cheers

mike

marie
04-25-2007, 02:41 AM
http://www.hows.org.uk/personal/rail/incline/lls.htm

Liverpool Lime St

From 1836 until 1870 trains into Liverpool Lime St were hauled by a stationary steam engine and shunted by horses. There was another cable hauled railway from Crown St station to Edge Hill.

The locomotives would run as far as Edge Hill cutting where they would be detached with loaded coaches being cable hauled through a short tunnel by winding engines at the passenger terminus at Crown Street; returning coaches ran down to Edge Hill by gravity. Goods traffic was handled at the Wapping Goods station close to Liverpool Docks. This was reached by an impressive 2030 metre tunnel from Edge Hill cutting; wagons were cable hauled up from Wapping and descended by gravity


The Crown Street passenger terminus soon proved inadequate due to its size and distance from the city centre and it was closed on 15th August 1836 on the opening of a new terminus at Lime Street, much closer to the city centre. This was reached by a new double track 1006 metre tunnel; although the new line was less steep than Wapping it was still cable hauled. A new engine house was built at Edge Hill, in what is now the station building.

Steam for this engine was supplied from a boiler in the old Edge Hill cutting through a long tunnel excavated through the sandstone on the north side of the cutting; this was known as the 'steam tunnel'; the boiler was housed in a chamber cut into the cutting wall. Goods and coal traffic continued to be handled at the old Crown Street station and a second wider tunnel into Crown Street was driven in about 1846. In the 1860's in order to facilitate a new track alignment the Edge Hill cutting w! as widened forcing the demolition of the Moorish Arch.

From 1870, the line into Lime Street was locomotive hauled and a huge chimney with a powered fan was built on Smithdown Lane, near Edge Hill. This was only used for a few years although the chimney lasted until just before WW2. Smoke in the tunnel was always a problem so after a couple of accidents and the need for increased traffic, the two track tunnel was opened up into a deep four track cutting with seven short lengths of tunnel remaining to support various roads and houses. At Edge Hill a further tunnel opened in 1849, north of the Lime Street tunnel. This was another ambitious undertaking comprising two end on tunnels collectively known as Waterloo.

The Waterloo Tunnel at 862 metres is, in reality, the shorter of the two tunnels. Immediately to the west of it is the longer Victoria Tunnel at 2475 metres. The tunnels ran north west to Waterloo Goods Station and the harbour railway system and were, again, cable hauled from Edge Hill.

Cable haulage continued through the Waterloo Tunnel until 1895 when it went over to locomotive haulage and the line was extended to a new passenger station, Riverside, near the pier head, The Wapping Tunnel went over to locomotive haulage the following year. Waterloo Goods Station remained in use until 1963 while Crown Street goods terminal lasted a further five years, closing in 1968; the site was landscaped in 1980.

goldenface
04-25-2007, 12:46 PM
Dont know if anyone has seen this but here it is anyway:

drone_pilot
04-25-2007, 04:25 PM
Exchange Station today

Outside
http://www.militaryimages.net/imagehost/images/dronepilot/mg0160.jpg

Memorial
http://www.militaryimages.net/imagehost/images/dronepilot/mg0161.jpg

Inside
http://www.militaryimages.net/imagehost/images/dronepilot/mg0162.jpg

To the Rear, where the trains would have arrived.
http://www.militaryimages.net/imagehost/images/dronepilot/mg0163.jpg

lindylou
04-25-2007, 05:46 PM
wow! it looks real smart. :handclap: smashing photos.:)

MariaC
04-25-2007, 05:57 PM
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u151/mariajune_2007/LimeStreetStation.jpg

Lime Street Station

mike delamar
04-25-2007, 08:02 PM
http://www.hows.org.uk/personal/rail/incline/lls.htm

Crown Street goods terminal lasted a further five years, closing in 1968; the site was landscaped in 1980.


sorry to be one of them annoying anoraks, crown st closed in 1972
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/michaeldelz/crown_street_echo_article_1972.jpg
mike

oritelad
04-25-2007, 08:06 PM
the cheshire lines railway tunnels from kirkdale to walton on the hill?

is that what you mean there, that there is tunnels alongside it?

what that was, is that the tunnels were built in case the line ever had to be widened from 2 tracks to 4, but they never removed the cutting in front of them,

you can see that all along the bridges and tunnels on the the cheshire lines railway bike path to halewood, there wernt any platforms at kirkdale for this line,


kirkdale station on the lancashire and yorkshire railway, the one that is still used, only ever had the 2 platforms on the slow lines, same as it is now, the lines next to that which got lifted in the late 1960s early 70s where what was called the fast lines, from walton junction to liverpool exchange, trains that where not going to stop at kirkdale used these lines, because the electric trains stopped at every station,

ive got some more pics of the tunnels in the steam days somewhere, ill dig em out

cheers

mike

great hope you find them photos there just does seem to any pics of that bit of kirkdale station,

thanks now i know why there are 2 tunnels next to eachother so they just built 2 incase they needed 4 lines but decided they didnt so thats why the 2nd tunnel was never complete and leads to a dead end?

so this branch did cross the cutting for the canada dock branch so did the bridge crossing it get removed and when?

thanks i understand how kirkdale station worked now it just seems confussing as there are so many branchs running through it i hope you find a photo of the old stair way that was knocked down which lead to that fast lane track i always thought it lead to the 2 tunnels in the corrner and the canada dock branch ya see

also i was thinking of visiting the site of spellow station do you or anyoneelse know how i would get to it of has anyone got resant pics of what state it is in now?

goldenface
04-26-2007, 10:57 AM
Oritelad

I don't think anything exists of Spellow Station now. All the station buildings have been cleared away, I don't even think the platforms are there either.

mike delamar
04-26-2007, 04:48 PM
got a video here of a cab ride along the bootle branch, made in the late 80s, shows theres still some platform remains at spellow and walton and anfield at that time, think theyre just overgrown now

i think you can see from the entrys at the back of houses on romley st(providing theres no gates on the entry now)

if not could try the bottom of goodison road, or from city road bridge, youll be able to tell from there, dont think its that high to look over

mike

oritelad
04-27-2007, 12:45 AM
got a video here of a cab ride along the bootle branch, made in the late 80s, shows theres still some platform remains at spellow and walton and anfield at that time, think theyre just overgrown now

i think you can see from the entrys at the back of houses on romley st(providing theres no gates on the entry now)

if not could try the bottom of goodison road, or from city road bridge, youll be able to tell from there, dont think its that high to look over

mike

nice one m8 na they av them daft black gates on i aint tha sad yet to wait till the bin men come early in the morning lol i would love to see tha vid please can you take any screen capsions?

Jericho
04-27-2007, 09:38 AM
From the Subterranean Britannica site on Disused Railway Stations:

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/s/spellow/index.shtml

mike delamar
04-27-2007, 04:24 PM
nice one m8 na they av them daft black gates on i aint tha sad yet to wait till the bin men come early in the morning lol i would love to see tha vid please can you take any screen capsions?


yeah no probs,

only thing is just got this new windows vista and vlc media player which i use to screen capture dosent work with it just yet, and its on video not dvd, but ill try and take a pic of the telly and see if that works:)

if you ever want to try and get hold of a copy its called "choppers and hoppers"


mike

mike delamar
04-27-2007, 05:42 PM
did a video clip of it instead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yACLdKg9R1U

starts just before the old walton and anfield station, down to bootle junction, which is between bank hall and oriel road stations,

poor quality im afraid, just the camera in front of the telly


mike

liverlad08
04-29-2007, 04:53 PM
no lol i have pics of county road of the old station building its now the bookies i just need to find a way to take pics of spellow station below county road thought your house backed onto it or something no worries i wil keep tryin please visit my website at www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk


it you lucky day.. i live just behind arnots school.. as soon as i get chance i will{beave the rats} and get on the back wall and take you some pics....

liverlad08
04-29-2007, 05:31 PM
got a video here of a cab ride along the bootle branch, made in the late 80s, shows theres still some platform remains at spellow and walton and anfield at that time, think theyre just overgrown now

i think you can see from the entrys at the back of houses on romley st(providing theres no gates on the entry now)

if not could try the bottom of goodison road, or from city road bridge, youll be able to tell from there, dont think its that high to look over

mike



that is top........ive just seen the back off my house......all ways wanted to know what it was like.


dose any one know if there is anothe line round the same place just underground. ?

mike delamar
04-29-2007, 05:44 PM
that all your rubbish thats been thrown over? lol

errr, not deeper than that one to be honest, but there are others, nearest would be around kirkdale,


mike

oritelad
04-30-2007, 06:50 PM
wow that is a great video i saw loads i needed to see so the spellow station platforms are still there but the stairs have gone also the old tunnel to canada dock station was still there in the cutting at kirkdale thanks 4 that also LIVERLAD08 i hope you are able to take clear photos over ya back that would be boss i have been waiting for ages to find someone who lived near that spellow cutting thats so luckey

MerseysideTransportTrust
06-30-2007, 08:08 PM
great hope you find them photos there just does seem to any pics of that bit of kirkdale station,

i hope you find a photo of the old stair way that was knocked down which lead to that fast lane track

From my memory of using Kirkdale in the late 60s, the old stairwell led down to the booking office level and then onwards to the 2 platforms .

You could either travel on the diesels to Exchange or Kirkby/Wigan or the electrics to Exchange or Ormskirk the other 2 lines (FAST) had no platforms

I've just posted a 1928 Liverpool map on the forum , this shows many of the Old Stations such as Spellow Lane and many of the other branches

Regards

Rob

DaisyChains
08-18-2007, 10:02 AM
I have been lurking for a few days and it is absolutely fabulous what you are doing here to make people aware of their history and ancestry.
I joined after seeing the picture of St James Station and my boyfriend saying "See those steps, I have been down those hundreds of times"
He works on the railway and has access to the platforms and an interesting series of rooms that originally would have housed the station master and other platform staff. The rooms are located on the left of the photograph under the arched bridge (called bridge 6 on the schematic) and apparently contain general rubbish left by railway staff. He has promised to take some pictures of the rooms and surrounding area next time he is on days.
He thinks that if there was anything interesting such as signage or documents it would have been flogged by now but he will look anyway.


http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/central.jpg

Did your boyfriend ever get any pics?:)

chippie
08-18-2007, 06:20 PM
there was a lot of litter on that track, but what a clip, cheers Mike

floyd
08-29-2007, 02:47 PM
He tried with his camera phone but the quality was pap so he is going to take our digital down there next time. I haven't forgotten :unibrow:

babaconda
08-30-2007, 04:51 PM
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00114.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00115.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00116.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00117.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00118.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00119.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00120.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00121.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h117/chaosfoz666/DSC00122.jpg

There you go. Taken today 30/08/2007

Kev
08-30-2007, 05:01 PM
:PDT11:handclap:

An excellent way to introduce yourself to the site, many thanks. I've wondered about tht site for many many years.

babaconda
09-02-2007, 06:17 PM
If you lot want any more pictures of the railway then I can get them for you. Be aware that it can take months for me to get to a particular site to take photo's. We go where the computer tells us to go (via work orders). And we can't go on track for no reason. A lot of places don't have access during the day. But if I can I will. Let me know!

DaisyChains
09-02-2007, 08:28 PM
If you lot want any more pictures of the railway then I can get them for you. Be aware that it can take months for me to get to a particular site to take photo's. We go where the computer tells us to go (via work orders). And we can't go on track for no reason. A lot of places don't have access during the day. But if I can I will. Let me know!

Brilliant brilliant photos!!! Thanks so much
Any more info/pics anybody has of this station would be greatly appreciated.
I know it was featured in the Echo a few years back but my mum threw the paper out...typical!

marie
09-03-2007, 08:10 AM
Lookin' for info about Wavertree, I found this web site...

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/w/wavertree/index.shtml

lindylou
09-03-2007, 05:16 PM
Hello Babaconda, thanks for sharing your excellent pics :PDT11

chippie
09-04-2007, 11:12 PM
great photos Baba. Stay safe going around those rails, and keep taking photos. :)

oritelad
09-05-2007, 12:49 AM
wow the old st james station photos are great no photos can be took of this site anymore and i cant belive u actally got down there when i pass the site on the train it goes past to fast i can never get a good photo of it lol there is rumors of this station reopening hope it does, there are a few stations i cant get to that i would love to see what is left i went to wavetree station yesterday and took photos as i got in the door that blocks the entry to the old staion site it is probley sealed back up now so i was lucky to get the photos a station i would love to see what is left is spellow but i cant get down there and i cant see over the wall it was very similar to st james station in a deep cutting hope you get the chance to get photos of what it looks like now my site is www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk if anyones intrested

SKie
09-05-2007, 12:03 PM
If you lot want any more pictures of the railway then I can get them for you. Be aware that it can take months for me to get to a particular site to take photo's. We go where the computer tells us to go (via work orders). And we can't go on track for no reason. A lot of places don't have access during the day. But if I can I will. Let me know!

Amazing, thanks for these pictures and the offer of more!

Two quick questions: there is a black door in the wall at Liverpool Central on the north end of the Southport platform. Ive always wondered what that was for (and where it went)

And another random door one :rolleyes:, there are a few large white doors at Moorfields Old Hall street entrance, and there is even a seperate (closed) entrance next to the main one that has just a Wirral Line sign over it. It even looks like there is space for an extra escalator, too. I'm thinking its a dedicated passage to the wirral platform that was never used.

Thanks! :D

babaconda
09-05-2007, 03:43 PM
Two quick questions: there is a black door in the wall at Liverpool Central on the north end of the Southport platform. Ive always wondered what that was for (and where it went)

Could you describe in more detail where this is? Is it in the wall on the far side of the railway? As you look towards Southport is it on the left?

Its probably nothing too exciting. There are a lot of small rooms around for water pumps. Water is continuously being removed from the tunnels.

Again I'll try to find out what its for but it might take me a while!

SKie
09-05-2007, 08:54 PM
Could you describe in more detail where this is? Is it in the wall on the far side of the railway? As you look towards Southport is it on the left?

Its probably nothing too exciting. There are a lot of small rooms around for water pumps. Water is continuously being removed from the tunnels.

Again I'll try to find out what its for but it might take me a while!

Yep, on the far side under all the station signs. The dor is partially cut into the corrugated wall covering. There are two large holes near it so it could be for ventilation.

Thanks!

iain
09-05-2007, 09:06 PM
Lookin' for info about Wavertree, I found this web site...

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/w/wavertree/index.shtml

A station there, or at Smithdown Rd, would be really useful. Especially with all the students in the area. Someone here posted something ages ago about Merseyrail having it in their long-term plans to reopen some of these old stations, including the Sefton Park (Smithdown Rd) one. Of course they'd have to rebuild it first though.

Cadfael
09-06-2007, 11:59 AM
I still say that Liverpool Council would be sitting on a gold mine by re-opening the Halewood/Bootle loopline with an old set of steam trains. All of the structures are still there, the station exit and entrances are still there and it is such a place to travel as you feel you are out in the country when you head through halewood. There is no direct way to get from say West Derby to Gateacre on transport, but hop on an old steam train through the West Derby cutting would be magical!

oritelad
09-06-2007, 02:56 PM
good point about liverpool central and the black door well i found out resantly that it leads to another unused platform built in the 1970s when the loop line was built if you look out the window just before you reach liverpool central from moorfields i have a photo somewhere that a worker for merseyrail took you will see the old blocked tunnel that leads to the disused platform it was built for another line that was planned that would used the waterloo tunnel but the idea and platform have been forgot about since the 1970s but now in 2007 merseyrail are to upgrade liverpool central and they could use this platform as they are plannin to reuse the waterloo tunnel hope it happens as for other stations reopening it will happen but only in the long run it will take time and money

babaconda
09-07-2007, 06:33 PM
good point about liverpool central and the black door well i found out resantly that it leads to another unused platform built in the 1970s when the loop line was built if you look out the window just before you reach liverpool central from moorfields i have a photo somewhere that a worker for merseyrail took you will see the old blocked tunnel that leads to the disused platform it was built for another line that was planned that would used the waterloo tunnel but the idea and platform have been forgot about since the 1970s but now in 2007 merseyrail are to upgrade liverpool central and they could use this platform as they are plannin to reuse the waterloo tunnel hope it happens as for other stations reopening it will happen but only in the long run it will take time and money

I know exactly where you mean. In the run up to where the platform is there are a lot of equipment cupboards. Its not impossible to move these. But it would take a lot of time. I haven't heard anything about them opening an extra platform. And I work on the tracks.

John_142
09-27-2007, 03:30 PM
sorry to be one of them annoying anoraks, crown st closed in 1972
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/michaeldelz/crown_street_echo_article_1972.jpg
mike

At Crown Street you can still see that it was a goods trminal eventhough it's a park now as you can see in the middle were the turn table would have been at one time and where all the line would have split off.

As i recently wenrt up there on my bike and it was an ammazing seen as you can also see that the walls are still railway brick ones as it also shows that things were built to last.

John_142
09-27-2007, 03:37 PM
I know exactly where you mean. In the run up to where the platform is there are a lot of equipment cupboards. Its not impossible to move these. But it would take a lot of time. I haven't heard anything about them opening an extra platform. And I work on the tracks.

I have read somwere else that the Platform was built for the purpouse of use whilst Liverpool Central Station was undergoing refurbishment works during the 19.70's.

I think it was in use when they were building the deep level platform for the wirral line.

Also can anyone plaese tell me if the Waterloo Tunel is the one that you can see to the left as you leave Liverpool Central towards Morrfeilds and Southport etc which was the part of the origional Wirral Line.?

Store 3
09-27-2007, 05:38 PM
Thank,s mike....... i think the video on you tube is super, i always wanted
to know what was under county road, i,ve been told that there were
platforms still down there but how long for, i alway,s thought it would
make a great route for the mersey tram...which has been scraped or has it.....these yob,s who vandlise our train,s & buses should be sent down to clean up the mess that has been dumped on our tracks around liverpool.. :034: ps i love the engine sound of the class 20.....choo choo.....

babaconda
09-27-2007, 09:41 PM
Also can anyone plaese tell me if the Waterloo Tunel is the one that you can see to the left as you leave Liverpool Central towards Morrfeilds and Southport etc which was the part of the origional Wirral Line.?

That tunnel you are talking about is called the Stock Interchange. No passenger trains use that part of the line. It is used for sending empty stock to the wirral line from the northern line. Its also a very dirty part of the world :)

babaconda
09-27-2007, 09:43 PM
Also if you walk down that part of the line you'll end up in James Street

John_142
09-28-2007, 04:00 PM
Also if you walk down that part of the line you'll end up in James Street

Yes thanks for that i knew it went to james street as it is part of the old wirral line as i have seen photos in a book of trains at Liverpool Central boarding for Rock Ferry from the now Northern Line Southport Bound Platform.

But was wondering were waterloo tunnel actually is.?

babaconda
09-28-2007, 08:27 PM
I've not heard of the Waterloo tunnel. I'll look into it though. A lot of places have 'local' names. The local lad call the Birkenhead park branch from Ham Square the 'Dive Under'.

Also I work on Merseyrail and not on the Main line. So if it is part of that I might not know it too well. I've not worked on that part of the Railway for about 7 years!

babaconda
09-29-2007, 12:25 AM
Also most tunnel names refer to the street name on the surface above ground.

eg. Hinderton field tunnel (by birkenhead central)

Maybe waterloo tunnel in near Waterloo road.

John_142
09-29-2007, 01:05 PM
Also most tunnel names refer to the street name on the surface above ground.

eg. Hinderton field tunnel (by birkenhead central)

Maybe waterloo tunnel in near Waterloo road.


----
It is the one they keep talking about re-oppeing to link the Merseyrail up to Edge Hill again.

I have seen pictures of it on the Old Liverpool Railways web site but wondered where it acctually is in Liverpool.?

babaconda
09-29-2007, 11:59 PM
There is already a link to the merseyrail from edge hill. Towards the olive mount end of edge hill. It comes out at bootle junction where there are points to move across to the merseyrail.

Engineering trains use this branch all the time. Also freight trains use that line a lot during the day and night.

I really can't see them opening a "new" line which would cost millions. I can't see what profit they would make by opening that tunnel again.

Let face it, they only do things these days yo make profit. If you can see how they would make profit then please let me know.

SKie
09-30-2007, 01:58 AM
Well, the two disused tunnels (victoria/wapping) both go under some of the least "connected" areas of Liverpool and both head up to edge hill and could therefore easily be linked back into the merseyrail network if the bootle branch is 3rd railed as LFC want.

The University and residential traffic alone would probably be enough to justify re-opening those tunnels. The original merseyrail loop & link was designed with this in mind, so the spurs have already been dug and construction of something like that wouldn't disrupt the network as much as if the spurs weren't already there.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Martin_S/Merseyrail/FutureMerseyrail.jpg

Waterways
09-30-2007, 03:33 AM
Also can anyone plaese tell me if the Waterloo Tunel is the one that you can see to the left as you leave Liverpool Central towards Morrfeilds and Southport etc which was the part of the origional Wirral Line.?

The Waterloo Tunnel is still as built in the early 1800s. Nothing has been cut into it being one long tunnel from Edge Hill to the Costco Car park, where the Waterloo Goods Yard Depot was. This goods depot was closed down in the 1880s or so. The line was extended over the Dock Road and into the new Riverside Station at te Pier Head. A policeman had to hold up Dock Rd tarffic as the train went across the road. There was one station on the Waterloo Tunnel at the Fontenoy cutting. Parts of the old station is still there. The Waterloo Tunnel was closed in 1972 along with Riverside Station. The station at the Fontenoy cutting? I'm don't know when that closed, I assume well before 1972.

As Central Docks is to be heavily built up with residential apartments, it makes sense to rebuild a station at the end of the tunnel. The line could also join the Merseyrail Northern line at this point. Fontenoy could be brought bacjk into use and staions are seriously proposed at London Road by cutting a station into the tunnel.

As the centre and dock areas are to be heavily built up with apartments, both the Wapping and Waterloo tunnels will be brought back into use. That is what Merseyrail propose.

Another tunnel that is ripe for re-use is the Dingle Tunnel and underground Dingle station which is still intact. A gantry would need to be built taking trains from the Herculaneum Dock exit of the tunnel, which is high up on the cliff side, to the lower level Merseyrail line beneath. This would re-generate the Dingle area. The original plan was to extend the Overhead further inland from Dingle, but it never came about. If the city increases its population, extending the tunnel may make sense in the future.

oritelad
10-01-2007, 11:07 AM
yes the station at the fontenoy cutting in the waterloo tunnel is a mystery it was called hodson station as it used to be on the road hodson street witch the old bridge that crosses the cutting used to be thats the only bit of the road left after the fontenoy gardens closed down the whole area was redeveloped this cutting now though would make a great station also a station at london road by the national express coach stops you can still see the old round vent for the waterloo tunnel by the main entrance also another by the royal hospital this would be great for hospital traffic and university traffic also as the waterloo tunnel is right next to the northern line as it goes underground to moorfields a station has been planned there called vauxhall this would connect the lines that just need to curve into the tunnel entrance i think merseyrail plan to use the waterloo tunnel first to extend the merseyrail network the wapping tunnel is not as in a busy area as the waterloo tunnel work has already started on the waterloo tunnel if you look from the train as you pass the site you will see what i mean

Waterways
10-01-2007, 01:45 PM
yes the station at the fontenoy cutting in the waterloo tunnel is a mystery it was called hodson station as it used to be on the road hodson street witch the old bridge that crosses the cutting used to be thats the only bit of the road left after the fontenoy gardens closed down the whole area was redeveloped


The station would have been there much before Fontenoy Gardens was ever built. When was it decommissioned?



this cutting now though would make a great station also a station at london road by the national express coach stops. You can still see the old round vent for the waterloo tunnel by the main entrance also another by the royal hospital this would be great for hospital traffic and university traffic also as the waterloo tunnel is right next to the northern line as it goes underground to Moorfields. A station has been planned there called Vauxhall, this would connect the lines that just need to curve into the tunnel entrance. I think merseyrail plan to use the waterloo tunnel first to extend the merseyrail network. The wapping tunnel is not as in a busy area as the waterloo tunnel work has already started on the waterloo tunnel if you look from the train as you pass the site you will see what i mean

Where is this work? At the end by Costco? Both tunnels will run through, or serve, busy areas when construction is more advanced on the Central Docks and South End docks. and bit between. If developers know a station was to be built in a certain location they would be attracted to build in that location. For e.g., if the Dingle station was to be re-commissioned, developers would want to built around that station and then re-generation. Just as the Brunswick Station has been an attraction for development around Brunswick and Herculaneum Docks areas.

Not using this wonderful underground legacy of our forefathers is nothing but irresponsible.

The Hodson St station. This was in a cutting with a tunnel in and out at either end of the platforms. As was St James station on Parly. I always refer to these stations as "semi-underground" stations, as that is what they are.

Hodson St Station. Is this station on the 1850 map? Someone has that on this forum. Would be interesting.

The city has to extend the rail system, especially the underground aspect. Cars have to be pushed back and the city given back to the people. The wasteland called The Strand should be pedestrianised, with added attractions - think Ramblas in Barcelona. As should be much of the Dock Rd. This urban motorway divides the city from the water spaces.

Note: please use capital letters, commas and full stops.
:-)

John_142
10-01-2007, 02:22 PM
The station would have been there much before Fontenoy Gardens was ever built. When was it decommissioned?



Where is this work? At the end by Costco? Both tunnels will run through, or serve, busy areas when construction is more advanced on the Central Docks and South End docks. and bit between. If developers know a station was to be built in a certain location they would be attracted to build in that location. For e.g., if the Dingle station was to be re-commissioned, developers would want to built around that station and then re-generation. Just as the Brunswick Station has been an attraction for development around Brunswick and Herculaneum Docks areas.

Not using this wonderful underground legacy of our forefathers is nothing but irresponsible.

The Hodson St station. This was in a cutting with a tunnel in and out at either end of the platforms. As was St James station on Parly. I always refer to these stations as "semi-underground" stations, as that is what they are.

Hodson St Station. Is this station on the 1850 map? Someone has that on this forum. Would be interesting.

The city has to extend the rail system, especially the underground aspect. Cars have to be pushed back and the city given back to the people. The wasteland called The Strand should be pedestrianised, with added attractions - think Ramblas in Barcelona. As should be much of the Dock Rd. This urban motorway divides the city from the water spaces.

Note: please use capital letters, commas and full stops.
:-)

"Photographs of the SIte of the Waterloo Tunnel would be great"

Waterways
10-01-2007, 04:08 PM
"Photographs of the SIte of the Waterloo Tunnel would be great"

Hit the links of the footers:
The tunnel is here:
http://www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk/

John_142
10-02-2007, 03:05 PM
Well, the two disused tunnels (victoria/wapping) both go under some of the least "connected" areas of Liverpool and both head up to edge hill and could therefore easily be linked back into the merseyrail network if the bootle branch is 3rd railed as LFC want.

The University and residential traffic alone would probably be enough to justify re-opening those tunnels. The original merseyrail loop & link was designed with this in mind, so the spurs have already been dug and construction of something like that wouldn't disrupt the network as much as if the spurs weren't already there.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Martin_S/Merseyrail/FutureMerseyrail.jpg

Tell me i have now seen the Waterloo Tunnel at Edge Hill it was stering me in the face all the time so was this part of the Old Liverpool Loop Line that went all the way round through to Halewood which section is no a cycle path and passes under edge lane.

John_142
10-02-2007, 03:06 PM
Tell me i have now seen the Waterloo Tunnel at Edge Hill it was stering me in the face all the time so was this part of the Old Liverpool Loop Line that went all the way round through to Halewood which section is no a cycle path and passes under edge lane.

"It would be great if someone could upload a detailed map":PDT_Xtremez_12:

Cadfael
10-02-2007, 04:50 PM
Tell me i have now seen the Waterloo Tunnel at Edge Hill it was stering me in the face all the time so was this part of the Old Liverpool Loop Line that went all the way round through to Halewood which section is no a cycle path and passes under edge lane.

The map (of which I've got a copy but can't attach to the forum) starts from Halewood, in to Woolton (by Halewood Road), through Gateacre, through the bottom end of Childwall (Childwall Valley Road), up to Broadgreen by Thomas Lane, up to the back of behind Alder Hey, through West Derby passing not too far from the Jolly Miller.....

Doesn't touch Edge Hill at all.

The old Edge Hill Crown Street station would take you from under Overbury Street/Tunnel Road and then bear right in a U turn almost under Picton Road.

Ged
10-02-2007, 05:51 PM
Waterloo tunnel which I walked through around 1978 goes only from Gt Howard st (we got in off Pall Mall) and goes through to Edge Hill ascending gradually. We could see the daylight getting in at Fonney Oy Gardens and then later via the shaft behind Norton St as we progressed onwards and upwards, the light at the beginning of the tunnel quickly disappeared as we went uphill. The cycle path old loop line goes from Halewood to Bootle and is open air and not connected to Edge Hill at all.

Cadfael
10-02-2007, 07:36 PM
Waterloo tunnel which I walked through around 1978 goes only from Gt Howard st (we got in off Pall Mall) and goes through to Edge Hill ascending gradually. We could see the daylight getting in at Fonney Oy Gardens and then later via the shaft behind Norton St as we progressed onwards and upwards, the light at the beginning of the tunnel quickly disappeared as we went uphill. The cycle path old loop line goes from Halewood to Bootle and is open air and not connected to Edge Hill at all.


Until you get to Thomas Lane and it's as pitch black as anything:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eTwR4Fkh0c8

John_142
10-03-2007, 03:42 PM
So the Waterloo tunnel was nothing to do with the Old Liverpool Loop Line then.!

But was was the actuall route of the line that used the waterloo tunnel and am i correct in thinking that part of the line is the one that runs at a lower level than the Northern Line at Bootle as this disapers in to a tunnel simmiler to the on at Edge Hill.:002:

Ged
10-03-2007, 04:03 PM
The Waterloo tunnel doesn't go anywhere near Bootle John. It runs in a straight line, all underground from Gt Howard street to Edge Hill, the entrance at Gt Howard street and into the tunnel for a hundred yards or so is now filled with old tyres. It runs under Pall Mall , Gascoyne st, Vauxhall road in a South Easterly direction, the first cutting can be seen at Byrom Street. It continues under Hunter street (under 2 old burial grounds actually), then under Islington and the next ventilation shaft is on Norton street behind the coach station. It runs under Pembroke Place, the University grounds at Ashton st then under Crown st and Archbishop Blanch school where another shaft is visible above ground, then under Mason street, Highgate st, Kingslake st (it's been running almost parallel with the Lime street mainline since Norton st, but underground) - then under Overton st and Chatsworth drive and into Edge Hill. I have an old A-Z that maps the route.

Waterways
10-03-2007, 04:31 PM
So the Waterloo tunnel was nothing to do with the Old Liverpool Loop Line then.!

But was was the actuall route of the line that used the waterloo tunnel and am i correct in thinking that part of the line is the one that runs at a lower level than the Northern Line at Bootle as this disapers in to a tunnel simmiler to the on at Edge Hill.:002:


You need to look at the odd map:

The one below shows the Waterloo Goods yard and the tunnel. From Edge Hill there was two direct tunnels fanning out. One to the south dock, the Wapping Tunnel, to Wapping/Queens Docks, and one to the north end docks, the Waterloo Tunnel, to Waterloo Dock. Each one had a Good Depot at the end. The idea was to get goods in and out of the docks ASAP. This was space age technology at the time - 1830s.

Both closed 1971/72. One of the last, if not the last, passenger trains to use the Waterloo Tunnel was taking troops to the Pier Head to quell the trouble in Northern Ireland.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~genmaps/genfiles/COU_files/ENG/LAN/phill_lpool_1920.htm

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7egenmaps/genfiles/COU_files/ENG/LAN/sduk_lpool_1836/sduk_lpool_1836.html

Waterways
10-03-2007, 05:07 PM
The Waterloo tunnel doesn't go anywhere near Bootle John. It runs in a straight line, all underground from Gt Howard street to Edge Hill, the entrance at Gt Howard street and into the tunnel for a hundred yards or so is now filled with old tyres. It runs under Pall Mall , Gascoyne st, Vauxhall road in a South Easterly direction, the first cutting can be seen at Byrom Street. It continues under Hunter street (under 2 old burial grounds actually), then under Islington and the next ventilation shaft is on Norton street behind the coach station. It runs under Pembroke Place, the University grounds at Ashton st then under Crown st and Archbishop Blanch school where another shaft is visible above ground, then under Mason street, Highgate st, Kingslake st (it's been running almost parallel with the Lime street mainline since Norton st, but underground) - then under Overton st and Chatsworth drive and into Edge Hill. I have an old A-Z that maps the route.

The Lime Street cutting were originally tunnels, however they were cut out at various points for safety reasons - steam engines.

The original Waterloo and Wapping tunnels had steam engines at Edge Hill that pulled the wagons by cable, so safety inside the tunnels was not such a problem. Later, steam locos became more powerful and were able to climb the incline form the docks. With it being goods the safety aspect was not a real consideration as with passenger Lime St.

At the time these tunnels were very long indeed, and still are. London had nothing like them.

The cuttings at Lime St can be built over reclaiming land, that is for sure, and ideally should be. Heavy beams can be stretched across the cuttings and buildings built upon the beams. The cuttings are dangerous with vandals throwing heavy objects on the trains and onto the lines. They are also an eyesore with large ugly heavy walls around them. One idea was to make the deep cutting a double decker track.

Ged
10-03-2007, 05:14 PM
So... I wonder when the Byrom street cutting was made then and why? If it was only for passenger safety, is it because passengers once used that line and if so, was a station, or just a staff access made at Hodson street. I've only ever known it as a goods line from the docks but if indeed it was extended to the Riverside Station then maybe...?

Waterways
10-03-2007, 06:23 PM
So... I wonder when the Byrom street cutting was made then and why? If it was only for passenger safety, is it because passengers once used that line and if so, was a station, or just a staff access made at Hodson street. I've only ever known it as a goods line from the docks but if indeed it was extended to the Riverside Station then maybe...?

Yes, questions Ged. The cutting/station could have been added later. But Byron St was a major highly populated area in the 1800s, so it may have been a station from the outset. A rail workers stop? Why there?

John_142
10-04-2007, 11:48 AM
Very interesting thank you.

So where does the line go that i see from Seaforth Docks please and is it the same line that goes into a Tunnel at near Boolte Oriel Rd at a Lower Level than the Northern Line.

:PDT10

PhilipG
10-04-2007, 03:51 PM
I know nothing about railways, but think I've missed something in these threads.
Has somebody actually said there was a station at Hodson Street?
If the Waterloo Tunnel was originally the Victoria Tunnel, then it opened in 1849.
I've checked all the following maps, and while the cutting is shown on all of them, on none is there a station shown:
c1860; 1863; 1865; 1873; 1881; 1888; 1892; 1897; 1906; 1924.

Ged
10-04-2007, 04:47 PM
Only according to Oritelad Philip who also says so on his site but I can find no facts relating to it?

Day Ago
oritelad
www.oldliverpoolrailways.

---------------------------

its good to see more discussions about this lost waterloo tunnel station my site www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk has a page on it please feel free to look its still under construction i still have loads to add to each page but hodson station did exsist iam 100% certain it was very hidden as the area as we know it today is very open but before the area was redevloped that cutting was quite hidden when fontenoy garderns are around the station was accsesed by stairs they started where the electricity orange brick hut is now and down onto the platforms where a woodern station hut was also of course this station was mostly used by workers and trains did not stop here much and it didnt last long as a station but lets not forget it as it was a station and will soon be again thanks to merseyrail as for the other stations on the waterloo tunnel line it had hodson station, edge hill, riverside, waterloo goods and great howard street as great howard street station as used as a goods yard after exchange station opened i have photos somewhere traces of great howard street station, waterloo goods station, hodson station and riverside station are still there today
__________________
www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk

PhilipG
10-04-2007, 07:23 PM
Thanks Ged.

It probably gave access to all these underground streets we hear about! :rolleyes:

John_142
10-05-2007, 02:57 PM
I have found out about it and is part of the Alexander Dock Branch and does link up to Edge Hill via the Canada Dock Branch and i suspect that were it links to onto the Northern Line is to connect it to What i would immagine is the Seaforth Dock Branch Line a short one simmiler to the Alexander Dock Line.

And where i see it go under ground at Bootle acutally used to Be a Station Called Bootle Baloriel Road.

The line seves the former Edge Lane Station site and all of the other Stations what used to be on the Canada Dock Branch Line.

Would be grate if this was to re-open as i wouldent have to bother struggling to get through the one way system in the city centre to get from Liverpool Central to Lime Street.

(information from Dissused Stations web site):handclap:

Ged
10-05-2007, 03:43 PM
There's an oriel and a balliol rd but none of the name you mention?

John_142
10-05-2007, 04:31 PM
There's an oriel and a balliol rd but none of the name you mention?

Balliol is correct probably my poor spellin got you confused sorry!:002:

Waterways
10-06-2007, 11:18 AM
Only according to Oritelad Philip who also says so on his site but I can find no facts relating to it?


The Hodson St cutting looks like it was a stop of some sort, as it is too big for mere ventilation - other ventilation shafts are just large round pipes to the surface. The St. James' Stn cutting gives the biggest hint. It may have been for rail workers only or access for tunnels diggers, as the ventilation shafts would have been. Or originally intended to be a station, but never commissioned.

There is a clear question mark over the cutting.

Waterways
10-06-2007, 11:49 AM
My understanding is that Crown Street was the first railway station in the world, opening on the Liverpool-Manchester Railway -- the world's first -- in 1830.

Crown St and the station in Manchester were the "joint" first passenger stations in the world, commissioned at the same time to my knowledge. They operated at the same time. Was there intermediate stations as well? If so then these are equal to Crown St. Crown St may get the first tag because the train left Liverpool for Manchester so was the first station to have a passenger train operate from it, which a rather pedantic point. The Manchester Station at Liverpool St (?), is still there, while Crown St has disappeared.

Cadfael
10-06-2007, 11:50 AM
Thanks Ged.

It probably gave access to all these underground streets we hear about! :rolleyes:

Now now Philip :ninja::)

PhilipG
10-06-2007, 11:53 AM
Now now Philip :ninja::)

Only messin', Brother Cad. :)

John_142
10-06-2007, 01:26 PM
The Hodson St cutting looks like it was a stop of some sort, as it is too big for mere ventilation - other ventilation shafts are just large round pipes to the surface. The St. James' Stn cutting gives the biggest hint. It may have been for rail workers only or access for tunnels diggers, as the ventilation shafts would have been. Or originally intended to be a station, but never commissioned.

There is a clear question mark over the cutting.

Well the BOOTLE BALLIOL ROAD cutting was definitly a station as there was a Ticket Office there fro which the remains can be seen today.

See this link http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/b/bootle_balliol_road/index.shtml

And i think it will be a great idear to re-open the Line to passenger traffic again.

Waterways
10-06-2007, 03:03 PM
Well the BOOTLE BALLIOL ROAD cutting was definitly a station as there was a Ticket Office there fro which the remains can be seen today.

See this link http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/b/bootle_balliol_road/index.shtml

And i think it will be a great idear to re-open the Line to passenger traffic again.

I was in a cutting and a tunnel at one end, unlike Hodson St and St. James', which are cuttings down into an full underground tunnel.

Re-open the line. If it couldn't make in 1948, then I doubt it will today. To make any sense it would have to be an integrated part of Merseyrail.

John_142
10-06-2007, 04:07 PM
Yes probably the best option would be to make it part of Merseyrail for which i can see it making a few bob these days especially if they open Stations for the University and Hospital etc.

It would provide a vital link for these sites from the Main Line as if you get off at Lime St it's quite a walk to the Hospital from there and up Hill as well.:PDT11

HollyBlack
10-08-2007, 02:33 AM
... Re-open the line. If it couldn't make in 1948, then I doubt it will today. To make any sense it would have to be an integrated part of Merseyrail.The thing is that, given the geography and other developments, the Alexandra and Canada Dock branch is likely to get 25kV overhead electrification before third-rail DC electrification. For a number of reasons.

So if it opens to passengers at all it is likely that service on this branch will be to and from the Lime Street mainline station, just like it was back in 1948. A cross-platform terminus/interchange or something similar with the Northern line at Oriel road could be feasible and attractive.

I suppose it might also be possible to put in a new station in the existing deep cutting somewhere near the University of Liverpool Veterinary Sciences building. I wonder why no-one has ever (that I'm aware of) proposed doing that. Ie siting a new station there at the University, between Lime Street and Edge Hill, on the mainline and at the foot of the ancient deep cutting.

Just possibly service could be routed from the Alexandra Dock branch via Liverpool South Parkway (on the Allerton side of the station). Again using overhead electrification.

Electric hauled soccer specials to Anfield coming direct to/from places faraway (by-passing Lime Street) are an interesting possibility if indeed the dock branch is overhead electrified (including the Olive Mount Chord), irrespective of whether regular passenger service is established.

Ged
10-08-2007, 11:22 AM
Well i've just had a reply from the guys at and organising this
http://www.lmrs.org.uk/exhibition/index.htm

after last years success.

According to their member 'Jim' an ex steam train and then diesel train driver and railway enthusiast who apparently knows everything worth knowing regarding Liverpool's rail network. There was never any passenger stations on the Waterloo tunnel line and no passengers used Gt Howard St depot either as it was only goods.

SKie
10-08-2007, 11:55 AM
There wouldnt be any point re-opening Balliol road, as they could simply have the trains cross over onto the merseyrail lines and terminate at the third platform at Oriel road (or continue to the third platform at Bootle New Strand).

I do think this line will eventually re-open to passenger traffic due in part to the Anfield expansion's transport plans requiring a station to be opened on that line. If its overhead, they could probably extend the overhead to the above stations at little extra cost, nicely linking the two lines. merseyrail could then get dual power trains when they put their order in for the new stock they will need by 2010/15 and then they could run services directly to lime-street from the northern line via Anfield.

Waterways
10-08-2007, 12:33 PM
Well i've just had a reply from the guys at and organising this
http://www.lmrs.org.uk/exhibition/index.htm

after last years success.

According to their member 'Jim' an ex steam train and then diesel train driver and railway enthusiast who apparently knows everything worth knowing regarding Liverpool's rail network. There was never any passenger stations on the Waterloo tunnel line and no passengers used Gt Howard St depot either as it was only goods.

The Hodson St cutting may have been to crane down cables and the likes as the wagons were pulled by cables from Edge Hill. It also most certainly would have been a rail/construction workers or materials access point when digging the tunnel. I'm sure lines would have been run in as the tunnel progressed and rail wagons used to cart away the rock.

John_142
10-09-2007, 12:17 PM
Dual power trains yes that would be good plus re-oppening Edge Lane Sttaion would be great for the Retail Park and take some of the traffic off this heavily cogested road.

Also i had a letter from Merseyrail a week or two ago when i commented on the wheel stituation that they had at the time and they say they have started the tendering process for new trains.

So iam going to contact them again and find out how i could get invoilved in the desighn process as this is something i would love to do.

Martin S
10-14-2007, 01:13 PM
does anyone have any info or pics of this long forgotten station?

the only info i have is that it closed around 90(!) years ago and has been left ever since

we took this picture a couple of months back and would be fascinated if anyone could shed some more light

Hi Bunf.

St James closed around 1911 although you can still see the remains of the platforms and the cutting is used for maintenance access.

The station was on the old Cheshire Lines route into Central High Level station, which is now the Merseyrail Northern Line - Hunts Cross branch.

The tunnels into Central were designed for three tracks, although that would probably not conform to modern clearance requirements and there are only two nowadays.

Being in a deep cutting, access would have been a problem. The steel staircase will have been constructed long after the station closed. However, the railway used to own land on the North side of Parliament Street, so I suspect there would have been a subway under Parliament Street with steps down to the platforms. I believe there are some station building, or the remains of them in Ashworth Street at the top of the cutting.

I don't know why the decision was taken to close the station at such an early date but I suspect that it had to do with the competition from tramways, and the fact that the short commuter route into Liverpool Central would not have attracted much traffic. Add to that the inconvenience and unpleasantness of using a low level station in the days of steam motive power. It may also have been closed to allow more traffic through the tunnel into Central.

Merseytravel are interested in reopening St James as it is the closest station to the new Arena and Convention Centre and it would also serve the south end of Chinatown, the Anglican Cathedral and the Canning housing area.

There are now four trains per hour in each direction passing through the station site but this could be doubled if the Ormskirk service, which presently reverses at Central, could be extended to Liverpool South Parkway, something that Merseytravel is considering.

Reopening the station would not be cheap as modern lifts would be required down to platform level, much as at Conway Park in Birkenhead and a new ticket office.

HollyBlack
10-14-2007, 09:15 PM
... Reopening the station would not be cheap as modern lifts would be required down to platform level, much as at Conway Park in Birkenhead and a new ticket office.
Are lifts expensive then in the grand scheme of things?
Aren't they cheaper than escalators?

Mind you, a totally new station served by lifts and located at the University on the Edge Hill cutting (Lime Street mainline) would surely see a lot more usage.

Waterways
10-14-2007, 11:57 PM
Are lifts expensive then in the grand scheme of things?
Aren't they cheaper than escalators?

Mind you, a totally new station served by lifts and located at the University on the Edge Hill cutting (Lime Street mainline) would surely see a lot more usage.

Cutting into the Wapping Tunnel, and re-using the tunnel, is the best idea for a uni station.

jc_everton
10-18-2007, 06:28 PM
I have been following this thread intently today, as well as various other ones and I feel it is time for me to chip in.

Someone said that the Wapping Tunnel/Uni Station line would not be very profitable at all. I strongly disagree.

As a student myself, I am 99% certain that a station around Smithdown Rd would be a gold-mine, and that road at rush hours can be an absolute nightmare. My bird lives in Greenbank halls by Smithdown, and it can take up to half an hour on the bus at 9am which is ridiculous.

Link Smithdown Road with a University station and what a result - what an incentive for students who are 50-50 about coming to a Liverpool University. Got to think about non-students too - there is no way that demand would ever be low.

Not only that, but if the tunnel that linked up 'Great Howard St' station was renovated, you could have a direct link to Byrom St uni and the large Avril Robarts Library. Yes this sounds all very well and good for students, but looking at the bigger picture, there is a fantastic opportunity to revolutionise the transport system in Liverpool, which isn't exactly fantastic is it?

Ok, a rail system would could cost many millions. well what about one of them shuttle systems that gets used in somewhere like Alton Towers?! Or in Vegas, that links you from hotel to hotel. Surely this (albeit not majorly fast) system would not cost so much?!

Just a thought.

Jonny.

Waterways
10-18-2007, 08:12 PM
I have been following this thread intently today, as well as various other ones and I feel it is time for me to chip in.

Someone said that the Wapping Tunnel/Uni Station line would not be very profitable at all. I strongly disagree.

As a student myself, I am 99% certain that a station around Smithdown Rd would be a gold-mine, and that road at rush hours can be an absolute nightmare. My bird lives in Greenbank halls by Smithdown, and it can take up to half an hour on the bus at 9am which is ridiculous.

Link Smithdown Road with a University station and what a result - what an incentive for students who are 50-50 about coming to a Liverpool University. Got to think about non-students too - there is no way that demand would ever be low.

Not only that, but if the tunnel that linked up 'Great Howard St' station was renovated, you could have a direct link to Byrom St uni and the large Avril Robarts Library. Yes this sounds all very well and good for students, but looking at the bigger picture, there is a fantastic opportunity to revolutionise the transport system in Liverpool, which isn't exactly fantastic is it?

Ok, a rail system would could cost many millions. well what about one of them shuttle systems that gets used in somewhere like Alton Towers?! Or in Vegas, that links you from hotel to hotel. Surely this (albeit not majorly fast) system would not cost so much?!

Just a thought.


Jonny, Smithdown Rd had a station on the bridge called Sefton Park - here are remnants of it still there. This runs to Edge Hill where access to the Stephenson Wapping and Waterloo Tunnels is. Smithdown Rd is on the London main line, so whether they will allow a Meseyrail station to use the same tracks is another matter. It would need to be 3rd rail electrified at this point to run Merseyrail trains, unless they use overhead and 3rd rail electric pickup rolling stock. The master plan for rail does include the station though.

You are right a station at the uni would make sense, also putting in stations would attract developments too. Students generally don't own cars, so they use public transport.

The abandoned underground Dingle station, the south end terminus of the old Overhead railway, was designed to extend inland, however it never did. A natural extension would be to Smithdown Rd. It is is quite easy to get the station back onto Merseyrail. Whether the cost of boring a tunnel miles inland is worth it is another matter. However the overground station is still there at Smithdown and getting them onto the system is not a great thing.

Liverpool had a fantastic transport system. There are more abandoned rail stations than any other city - there are two underground stations alone that are abandoned.

Get the transport infrastructure in place and the population will follow.

Below: the Smithdown Rd station (Sefton Pk) entrance was to the right.
http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverpool/general/images/sefton%20park%20station%201909.jpg

John_142
10-20-2007, 02:06 PM
good point about liverpool central and the black door well i found out resantly that it leads to another unused platform built in the 1970s when the loop line was built if you look out the window just before you reach liverpool central from moorfields i have a photo somewhere that a worker for merseyrail took you will see the old blocked tunnel that leads to the disused platform it was built for another line that was planned that would used the waterloo tunnel but the idea and platform have been forgot about since the 1970s but now in 2007 merseyrail are to upgrade liverpool central and they could use this platform as they are plannin to reuse the waterloo tunnel hope it happens as for other stations reopening it will happen but only in the long run it will take time and money

I have looked in the tunnel and there seems to be no sign of theanother tunnel on the same side as the Balck door.

But there is another Tunnel on the otherside IE, the Hunts Cross side which seems to be blocked up with grese block.

This Tunnel seems to me as though it weas not another platform but only an Emergency buffer stop as the tunnel dosent seem wide enough for another platfrom and the wall to the right seems to old to have been built up.

How ever there is a possibilty that the platfrom was on the Left hand side with a sperate access probbly from the original High Level Building.

So it is Still a mistery and as for the blck door then i think that it is possible that this just gives access to a ventalation shaft or Ean Old Emergency Evacuation Tunnel Built Before the stair case at the end of the platfrom somrthing like that as if you look towards the end of the tunnel towards Hunts Cross there is an old fire extinghishire box on the Left.

HollyBlack
10-20-2007, 07:58 PM
... Smithdown Rd is on the London main line, so whether they will allow a Meseyrail station to use the same tracks is another matter. It would need to be 3rd rail electrified at this point to run Merseyrail trains, unless they use overhead and 3rd rail electric pickup rolling stock. The master plan for rail does include the station though. ... There is more overhead electrification coming, starting with the Chat Moss route (Manchester-Newton-le-Willows-Earlestown-Edge Hill). More will follow.
There are so many options for Merseyrail if it has some dual-powered (OHE/3rd Rail) stock.

Merseyrail really needs to make sure that a batch of rolling stock in the not too far distant is electric dual-powered. The difference in price is probably not all that great on a new order. It could easily make the difference between getting the Canada Dock branch to Anfield or losing it to a competitor when Peel decides to run OHE for the dock freight trains to exploit the electrified Chat Moss route to the WCML.

They can definitely have it both ways, Merseyrail can use OHE routes, establish new stations on OHE lines, but other providers cannot use Merseyrail's 3rdRail routes.

John_142
10-28-2007, 03:01 PM
There are only two operators that use Merseyrails third Rail Routes and they ar EWS and Freight Liner.

EWS use part of the Southport Line and Freight LInner use part of it aswell to get to the Dcoks at Seafroth and Cannada Dock for EWS.

Northern Occassionaly use part of the Hunts Cross Section of the Southport Line as i was on the Main Line train the other week going to Hunts Cross and it used the third rail route into Hunts Cross as far as the Cross over to Platfrom No 2 probably becuse the Cental Trqains Service was Running Late Behind it.

Also the i know belive that the tunnel on the HUnts Cross platform at Liverpool Central is the Link to the Victoria Tunnel which upto date has never been used.

There where plans back in the early 70's to open it but whre later abanonded so it wouldnt cost mutch or take mutch to open this route.

They dont even have to use the tunnel becasue they can link it from the Junction at Balliol Rd at Bootle and Re-Open Stations Like Breck Rd and Edge Lane etc as Edge Lane Would be grate for the Retail Park as its a bit of a Walk from Broard Green and Wavetree Tec Park.

:PDT11

Liverpool Lad
11-09-2007, 08:45 PM
Hello all this is my first post so here goes

liverpool railways and thier tunnels

have done the waterloo and victoria, august this year.

Just done the dingle tunnel

though now its time to bring on the daddy of them all the wapping, the only thing is the two fences you have to get over in which to gain entry.

not only is it hard getting in to the old crown street station site (now a double skin 8ft steel fence)

but they have also decided to put another fence over the entrance to the tunnel itself

so what do you think, should i go for it ?

oritelad
11-10-2007, 06:42 PM
wow great that you have done the waterloo tunnel and dingle hope you can upload the photos would love to feature them on my website www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk now the wapping tunnel is the biggest challenge ever i dont know anyone whos been in it for years now i would sujest from experience you are prepared before you go with a wrench to loosen the nuts on the railings if you can jump over and a good flash light and camara and wellies and keep away from the middle of the tunnel as it has drops into and old sewer i think it is or the tunnel that housed the ropes to pull trains in its days andway if you do reach the docks end which splits into 3 tunnels good luck lol because noone has ever got that far as its badly flooded but with high wellies and lots of bottel you could do it lol as for gaining entry from the docks end its impossible as 2 of the tunnels have been bricked in and the centre one is used fo buildling materials and the gate is never open now if a freind does not mind being left behind you could drop down in the cutting in upper frederick street with a rope as its not as riskey as the edge hill end but good luck and let us know how you get on dont foregt there are many more tunnels in liverpool taht are disused look at my tunnels page on my site.

Libertarian
11-10-2007, 07:33 PM
anyone got any pictures or memories of Exchange Street Station which is now Mercury Court? I'm sure it was quite a station in its day.

Liverpool Lad
11-10-2007, 10:28 PM
also whilst out and about today i went back, to have a look at the entrance to the waterloo tunnel (car park whilst sat on the wall there)
and there seems to be more work being done, they have a number of big commercial skips for the old tyres a jcb and a tipper for excavating earth / spoil.

when i walked the length of the tunnel in august this year there were survey pegs in the tunnel, but i have a feeling they are now opening up the entrance once again to faciliate the removal of all the crap in the cutting, but who knows.

me thinks once they have got the crap out the cutting both ends will have raillings put in front of them

while merseytravel and government look at re-opening the old tunnel.

so if anyone wants to walk it, you may only have a few months in which to do so

so long

Waterways
11-10-2007, 10:55 PM
anyone got any pictures or memories of Exchange Street Station which is now Mercury Court? I'm sure it was quite a station in its day.

We would use it regularly to go to Southport and Ainsdale Beach. It was big enough indeed. The facade was/is brilliant.

To think Liverpool, had three large rail termini: Lime St, Central, Exchange and maybe four if you include Riverside Station at the Pier Head.

The irony is that Lime St may not be big enough to cope for future traffic, so these stations, or at least one, should have been been put into mothballs.

The end of the either the Waterloo or Wapping Tunnels should be made a terminus, with Merseyrail links, if Lime St can't cope. The infrastructure is there.

chippie
11-11-2007, 02:31 PM
Seeing this is the transport section and it,s Rememberence Sunday, (what,s that got to do with it?) I,ve found an old photee of where I worked in Mill Road Hospital when this airship went over... interesting????

oritelad
11-13-2007, 06:17 PM
sandhills station closes on sat till march so iam making sure i get some photos of history before it gets knocked down the same with any other stations that get knocked down also anyone heard about the new station at anfield that will be very much like aintree more info is on my site www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk

Waterways
11-13-2007, 07:42 PM
sandhills station closes on sat till march so iam making sure i get some photos of history before it gets knocked down the same with any other stations that get knocked down also anyone heard about the new station at anfield that will be very much like aintree more info is on my site www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk

So they build a station on the Bottle line to serve LFC. Where would the line go to and from? To Edge Hill and then onto where on the Mersetyrail net.

oritelad
11-13-2007, 07:56 PM
there are a few ideas about where the line stops and starts one is lime steeet to edge hill then onto the canada dock branch to the new anfield station when it opens in 2010 then much later on other stations along the line could reopen and then the line could continue to spellow then kirkdale then onto the merseyrail network at bootle orreil road junction another idea was to use the waterloo or wapping tunnel connecting the merseyrail loop line to edge hill then onto the canada dock branch there is also talks of the line goinng onto the old bootle branch to aintree so it could be quite long nothing has been finalised yet though so we will just have to wait and see

Waterways
11-13-2007, 08:31 PM
there are a few ideas about where the line stops and starts one is lime steeet to edge hill then onto the canada dock branch to the new anfield station when it opens in 2010 then much later on other stations along the line could reopen and then the line could continue to spellow then kirkdale then onto the merseyrail network at bootle orreil road junction another idea was to use the waterloo or wapping tunnel connecting the merseyrail loop line to edge hill then onto the canada dock branch there is also talks of the line goinng onto the old bootle branch to aintree so it could be quite long nothing has been finalised yet though so we will just have to wait and see

From Lime St main line is a no, no. as it is not on Merseyrail. You need easy connectivity with the Wirral, etc. Using the Waterloo Tunnel and connecting onto the Northern Line at Waterloo Dock is good way. It has to a regular service and not a matchday service/line.

andyk
11-14-2007, 10:32 AM
Although I no longer live on Merseyside, I still have a great interest in the regions railways, dating from my days of travelling around the network on a weekend "Merseyrover" and my involvelment in the early days of the "Steamport Museum".

It is fascinating to read about the projects for rail on Merseyside;if only one or two of them could become reality ! Imagine seeing an electric on platform 4 at Southport, with Liverpool Central via Ormskirk on the departure board.

Many of the proposed new rail-links demand huge capital-investment.However, Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge is a mere drop in the ocean when compared to motorway building. The likelehood of ever increasing petrol prices must surely change the current policy of preferring road transport.How many people commuting from Southportto Preston alone in a car would jump at the chance to take a fast, reliable train ?

Does anyone know just how much a mile of third-rail D.C electrification actually costs including the provision for track-replacement, signalling and sub-stations for the power-supply ? The extension to Kirkby Headbolt Lane would give a good idea, althougn I am not sure if the track will be doubled through Kirkby.

HollyBlack
11-18-2007, 07:51 PM
From Lime St main line is a no, no. as it is not on Merseyrail. You need easy connectivity with the Wirral, etc. Using the Waterloo Tunnel and connecting onto the Northern Line at Waterloo Dock is good way. It has to a regular service and not a matchday service/line.

That's all true.

But on the other hand that line is moderately and increasingly used for freight which bears heavily. As does the planned electrification of the Chat Moss route from Edge Hill to Manchester via Earlestown.

It would be nice if Merseyrail were acquiring some dual-powered rolling stock (Overhead / Third rail). That would open quite many possibilities.

johnreppion
01-21-2008, 03:15 PM
I'm looking for information about Walton Junction station as I'm finding it hard to pin down. Can anyone tell me where it was (on the corner of which road or whatever), when it opened, when it closed and what stands in its place now? I believe there was a crash there in June 1867 in which a number of people were killed. All info very gratefully received, thanks in advance for your help.

Ged
01-21-2008, 03:35 PM
Are any of these two 'Walton Junction' ?

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/w/walton_on_the_hill/index.shtml

or

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/w/walton_and_anfield/index.shtml


.

jc_everton
01-21-2008, 03:44 PM
researchwriter: you're probably best starting a new thread in order to receive more views and info. also try the Sub Brit site.

As regards the North Liverpool Extension Line, I am confused with the line types. If Lime St's line is not the same as the Northern Line, what line is it? Does anyone have any technical details for this?
Also, the NLE's line is a freight only line, which is also a different type, but what is this?
In order for Lime St - Anfield to happen, must the NLE line and Lime St line be electrified to the same as the Northern Line?

Someone mentioned the busy usage of the NLE line but so what? Frieght and passenger trains run in conjunction with each all over the country, so why not here? Yes, there is only one track, which is not good, but there used to be two tracks, am I right?

In my eyes, the investment would surely be worth it over the long-term. Not only can we have match-day services (for Everton too, providing they stay put) but we can have daily services and new stations between Anfield and Edge Lane. The fact that it links to the Northern Line must also boost its profitability.

johnreppion
01-21-2008, 04:52 PM
researchwriter: you're probably best starting a new thread in order to receive more views and info. also try the Sub Brit site.Cheers JC, will do.

PhilipG
01-21-2008, 05:30 PM
I'm looking for information about Walton Junction station as I'm finding it hard to pin down. Can anyone tell me where it was (on the corner of which road or whatever), when it opened, when it closed and what stands in its place now? I believe there was a crash there in June 1867 in which a number of people were killed. All info very gratefully received, thanks in advance for your help.

Walton Junction is now Walton Station on the Ormskirk Line.
It's just off Hornby Road (near Walton Gaol) and the line used to be the Liverpool, Blackburn & Accrington Line on the L & Y R.

oritelad
01-22-2008, 10:10 PM
i have many photos of walton junction which is now (walton station) check me site www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk it used to have a line running off it towards the red wreck where the mcdonalds is today

johnreppion
01-23-2008, 12:13 AM
i have many photos of walton junction which is now (walton station) check me site www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk it used to have a line running off it towards the red wreck where the mcdonalds is todayCheers oritelad.

DavidCatton
02-11-2008, 02:25 PM
Hi,

Others may be interested to know that Bob Pixton's third (and final) book on the railways linking Manchester to the centre of the known Universe is about to be released. This one covers the ex-L&Y route while the previous ones covered the ex-LNWR and ex-CLC routes. I've ordered my copy from Amazon at a substantial discount but if this volume is as good as the previous two, even full price would be worth paying.

My copy should arrive in the next fortnight or so.

HTH,

David C

Kev
02-11-2008, 02:27 PM
Thanks for the info David :PDT11

oritelad
02-11-2008, 07:02 PM
what are the book about do they have the closed lines like the north liverpool extension line and the old canada dock line?

are they book available in library's yet?

Ged
02-12-2008, 11:41 AM
St. James Station and line. There is a pile of wood conveniently piled up just below the wall giving just enough height to hang onto the wall with one hand whilst trying to click your camera with the other. Be careful on your way down though not to put your foot straight onto a rusty nail which went through the sole of my trainer like a hot knife through butter, it's still throbing now.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4849/stjamesstngo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



The remainder of that end of Stanhope Street with a small Georgian terrace and Cains brewery in the background.


http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2254/ashwellnrze2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



An about turn to face East and you'll see the 1878 Petony's Building on St. James Place.


http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9299/petonysbldgs1878tu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



.

quincyg
02-19-2008, 05:47 PM
Hello
I've been searching on the internet for ages, scoured dozens and dozens of books and cannot find a single photo (or even drawing) of this station.
I've even tried the records office and the Liverpool Museum archive and they don't have any either.
My great grandfather was working there in 1912, had a bad fall from the roof and was DOA at the David Lewis hospital just up the road. I have the original newspaper cutting from the time but this doesn't have a picture. As it has some relevance to my family history I'd love to see what it looked like.
If anyone can offer any suggestions for where else I can try I'd be most grateful, or better still if you have a pic please can you scan it in for me.
Much obliged
:)

Ged
02-19-2008, 05:55 PM
I don't think one must exist of it quincyg if these haven't got it?

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/l/liverpool_st_james/index.shtml



.

Waterways
02-19-2008, 06:07 PM
Hello
I've been searching on the internet for ages, scoured dozens and dozens of books and cannot find a single photo (or even drawing) of this station.
I've even tried the records office and the Liverpool Museum archive and they don't have any either.
My great grandfather was working there in 1912, had a bad fall from the roof and was DOA at the David Lewis hospital just up the road. I have the original newspaper cutting from the time but this doesn't have a picture. As it has some relevance to my family history I'd love to see what it looked like.
If anyone can offer any suggestions for where else I can try I'd be most grateful, or better still if you have a pic please can you scan it in for me.
Much obliged
:)

Someone posted an old map of the goods station not long ago.

Appears health & safety has moved along a bit. I was looking at a picture of dockers in 1960. No one had any industrial clothing or protective headgear at all - all wearing those awful depression flat caps. Most industrial places were death traps.

oritelad
02-19-2008, 07:09 PM
i know what you mean i have searched everywhere for a photo of waterloo goods station still nothing not even a plan or anyone that can describe it to me please if anyone finds a photo or knows what the area and station looked like back then please let us know i can sort of imagine what it looked like from the photos i have of it but i don't understand where great howard street station would of been was it above on the viaduct above the waterloo tunnel by costco?

also what did the old st james station building look like there does not seem to be any photos of st james when it was open either?

mikewturner
02-19-2008, 09:03 PM
i know what you mean i have searched everywhere for a photo of waterloo goods station still nothing not even a plan or anyone that can describe it to me please if anyone finds a photo or knows what the area and station looked like back then please let us know i can sort of imagine what it looked like from the photos i have of it but i don't understand where great howard street station would of been was it above on the viaduct above the waterloo tunnel by costco?

also what did the old st james station building look like there does not seem to be any photos of st james when it was open either?

Errrrr what like this one? Not sure of copyright on this image but it's part of my collection.
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3734/c7a51sc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I hope everyone realises that 'Waterloo Goods Station' was never used for passengers? It was literally what it says - a station for goods. Similarly Stanley Cattle Station was a station for cattle ie cattle pens.

Regards

Mike Turner

mike delamar
02-22-2008, 03:50 AM
Nice pic Mike

judging by the jinty on the front, this would be the liverpool suburban railtour in 1964?

Waterways
02-22-2008, 10:07 AM
Errrrr what like this one? Not sure of copyright on this image but it's part of my collection.
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3734/c7a51sc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I hope everyone realises that 'Waterloo Goods Station' was never used for passengers? It was literally what it says - a station for goods. Similarly Stanley Cattle Station was a station for cattle ie cattle pens.


Thanks Mike, Is that the Waterloo Tunnel in he background? Old maps say the area may have been largely covered. I'm sure the goods terminal was larger than what the photo covers. The building on the right is clearly newsish, while the one of the left would have have a listing slapped on it - looks good.

quincyg
02-22-2008, 11:33 AM
Errrrr what like this one? Not sure of copyright on this image but it's part of my collection.
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3734/c7a51sc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I hope everyone realises that 'Waterloo Goods Station' was never used for passengers? It was literally what it says - a station for goods. Similarly Stanley Cattle Station was a station for cattle ie cattle pens.

Regards

Mike Turner

wow thank you. Do you have any more?
yes I know it wasn't a passenger station, my gt grandad was a railway painter/labourer there. he fell through the glass roof and died. :sad:

merseywail
03-12-2008, 07:33 PM
Some photos of a LUPTS rail tour passing through waterloo gds 13/6/1964. sorry if they have been on here before. photos by j peden & d Hamson . There was a 3 part article about the dock lines in Railway bylines mag in 2006.

PhilipG
03-12-2008, 09:28 PM
From the 1906 OS map.
Alan Godfrey reprint.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2328959345_15eab79287_o.jpg

quincyg
03-12-2008, 10:22 PM
Some photos of a LUPTS rail tour passing through waterloo gds 13/6/1964. sorry if they have been on here before. photos by j peden & d Hamson . There was a 3 part article about the dock lines in Railway bylines mag in 2006.

wonderful thank you. although it doesn't show the old glass roof it's great to be able to see photos of the station at last.

HollyBlack
03-13-2008, 06:25 AM
Some photos of a LUPTS rail tour passing through waterloo gds 13/6/1964. sorry if they have been on here before. photos by j peden & d Hamson . There was a 3 part article about the dock lines in Railway bylines mag in 2006.And they demolished this magnificent edifice to build a Costco? Madness. Temporary insanity. Wickedness. Thatcher.

Louis
03-13-2008, 03:27 PM
wasnt it demolished before thatcher?

Ged
03-13-2008, 04:16 PM
Yeah, well gone. There must have been 20 years between the station/goods yard and Costco.

Waterways
03-13-2008, 04:53 PM
wasnt it demolished before thatcher?

It doesn't matter, the woman was wicked.

Waterways
03-13-2008, 04:54 PM
Yeah, well gone. There must have been 20 years between the station/goods yard and Costco.

Ged, stop making up excuses for wicked women.

Louis
03-13-2008, 04:57 PM
Yeah, well gone. There must have been 20 years between the station/goods yard and Costco.

cheers

Ged
03-13-2008, 04:59 PM
Ha ha i'm not. Wicked she may have been, but she deffo didn't have anything to do with demolishing Waterloo goods station :)

DaisyChains
03-13-2008, 06:18 PM
Does anyone have any info on the train crash at the Dingle Overhead Station on Park Road?
a few people died, and somebody told me it was haunted.

quincyg
03-13-2008, 06:46 PM
Does anyone have any info on the train crash at the Dingle Overhead Station on Park Road?
a few people died, and somebody told me it was haunted.

do you mean this one (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B0DE3DF1F39E733A25757C2A9649D94 6097D6CF)?
click on read full article- this was 1901

DaisyChains
03-13-2008, 07:53 PM
do you mean this one (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B0DE3DF1F39E733A25757C2A9649D94 6097D6CF)?
click on read full article- this was 1901

thats brilliant thank you!

quincyg
03-13-2008, 08:15 PM
thats brilliant thank you!

you're very welcome :)

Waterways
03-13-2008, 09:31 PM
Ha ha i'm not. Wicked she may have been, but she deffo didn't have anything to do with demolishing Waterloo goods station :)

Ged, demolishing that goods station was a wicked act and Thatcher must have had a hand in it.

Louis
03-14-2008, 07:29 PM
interesting arcticle!

skgogosfan
06-18-2008, 10:39 PM
Just whizzed through this thread to say how nice to see all these great pictures! :)

Dave.

skgogosfan
10-18-2008, 06:35 AM
Especially the ones of Waterloo goods station-never saw those before! :)

Dave.

scouse smurf
02-25-2010, 02:50 PM
Not important but, any idea why Monk Ferry Railway station is marked on google maps ?

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=monks%20ferry%2C%20birkenhead&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

Waterways
02-25-2010, 05:21 PM
Not important but, any idea why Monk Ferry Railway station is marked on google maps ?


Someone took it from an old map? The station hasn't been used for around 50 years. On Google can't users put on tags? Is that put there by a user?

gregs dad
05-17-2010, 07:07 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/4615631954_fd60ecec30_o.jpg
Stretch of railway line which ran between the old Balliol Road station and Alexandria Dock station till 1948.
Still used for freight from the docks,taken from Derby Rd bridge

smudger95
05-18-2010, 08:25 PM
Hi Gregs dad, I've got a picture book on Liverpool stations, 1830 - 1985. Many pictures. Can remember stations in garston and garston dock, ther is also a picture of Otterspool station which closed in 1951. (should be re-opened) The book was published by Heyday Publishing Co based in Crosby Road North, L22 Don't know if they are still in business.

Waterways
05-19-2010, 12:51 AM
Hi Gregs dad, I've got a picture book on Liverpool stations, 1830 - 1985. Many pictures. Can remember stations in garston and garston dock, ther is also a picture of Otterspool station which closed in 1951. (should be re-opened) The book was published by Heyday Publishing Co based in Crosby Road North, L22 Don't know if they are still in business.

Otterspool station is still there. I think someone lives in the station buildings. As the population is increasing around there it may be viable. I recall the original Cheshire Lines passenger terminal at Brunswick Dock - demolished in 1975. It was the Liverpool terminal until Central Station opened. Also no passengers used it from around the 1870s.

oritelad
05-19-2010, 05:45 PM
there are a lot of stations that need to be reopened now the areas have become more populated. otterspool station is a strange one, the station building and platforms are still there but are lived in now by private residences it had an early closure as it was hardly used and in a difficult quite area and it was strange there was a very long walk down a private road to get to the station i dont know why they didnt build the station on the bridge on jerico lane but merseyrail want to reopen the station again but not the original station one on the bridge on jerico lane.

St james station in the city is also to be reopened now the area is so populated that closed back in 1917 and a lot remain of the original station. it is rumored to be haunted.

gregs dad
06-09-2010, 09:53 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4685586389_032b0b4bc7_b.jpg
Here`s the old Spellow station on County Rd, closed in 1948, now a betting shop the track is still used for dock traffic

gregs dad
06-19-2010, 03:59 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4713748305_3e7e0fb4dc_b.jpg
Cressington Station on the Southport to Hunts Cross line
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4713748815_e22eaf48ab_b.jpg
The old drinking fountain on Cressington station

Waterways
06-19-2010, 04:03 PM
Cressington Station looks special. Joe, it is on the Northern Line - just being pedantic.

Waterways
06-19-2010, 04:07 PM
Here`s the old Spellow station on County Rd, closed in 1948, now a betting shop the track is still used for dock traffic

The line, and station, has a 90% plus chance of being reused for passenger traffic. The line is being electrified (Not announced to cut it yet) and LFCs new stadium will mean passengers will be on the line and may be a new station here.

gregs dad
07-18-2010, 08:33 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4805733964_f105b4a844_b.jpg
All that remains of Woodside Station,Birkenhead,

scouse smurf
07-18-2010, 09:33 PM
what a shame, it was a nice looking place judging by the pics of it

gregs dad
07-29-2010, 04:51 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/4840993640_0169b56320_b.jpg
Kirkdale station with it`s tunnels and hanging gardens,notice the old entrance stairway on the left bricked up.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4146/4840381205_1f992794e1_b.jpg
Kirkdale station looking good after it`s renovation a few years ago
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/4840993236_fe6bd5e127_b.jpg
Ormskirk station booking hall after it`s recent makeover

oritelad
10-21-2010, 01:41 AM
check out www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk

gregs dad
04-28-2011, 08:20 PM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/5664885561_cabd066069_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/exacta2a/5664885561/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5310/5664886713_f5bcf0c54f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/exacta2a/5664886713/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5261/5665455742_4a5dee4f1c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/exacta2a/5665455742/)

Kirkdale station late in the evening

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5148/5665454482_1a3bf59ebe_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/exacta2a/5665454482/)

James Street station

ThePenkethPedant
05-26-2011, 01:35 AM
Walked the Trans-Pennine Way from Broadgreen to Walton Vale yesterday. At Hartley`s Jam Factory there is a multi-arched bridge over the trail, which carries a path through to Long Lane. I think it`s known as Hartley Road. It seems a very substantial bridge for just a pathway, I`m wondering if at one time it was an actual road which perhaps led to railway sidings where the jams could have been loaded on to trains for distribution via the rail network. Can anyone confirm this or offer any info,please?

gregs dad
05-26-2011, 12:27 PM
Jacobs biscuits Long lane, used that line which ran into the factory

ThePenkethPedant
05-26-2011, 11:06 PM
Jacobs biscuits Long lane, used that line which ran into the factory

Thanks, gd - do you mean that a line went over the multi-arch bridge from factory?

gregs dad
05-26-2011, 11:30 PM
They also had heir own shunter to take their wagons on to the main line,

ThePenkethPedant
05-28-2011, 01:58 AM
That`ll be a `yes` then... wonder when it was all dismantled.