Stanley Dock

[Kev]

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/mar2007/4/8/92F1ADB4-E7CC-3E14-3AFBAF46AC0E1C74.jpg


AMBITIOUS plans have been unveiled for a multi-million pound redevelopment of Stanley Dock.



The scheme includes digging out the centre of the Tobacco Warehouse to create a garden-filled courtyard surrounded by apartments.


More than 930 apartments will be built in the three warehouses on the site, with 650 duplexes in the 13-storey Tobacco Warehouse itself.


Reflective sails will be installed on the side of the dock to shine extra light on to the side of the giant warehouse, whose lower floors will become car parking for hundreds of vehicles.


The development, due to start in late 2008 or early 2009, will take seven years to complete.


But the regeneration scheme will mean the end of the heritage market on the Stanley Dock site.


Plans were submitted to the city council last Friday and revealed at yesterday’s Liverpool ECHO Stop the Rot campaign meeting.


Architect Howard Carter, from London-based Thinking Space Architects, said: “It’s a comprehensive redevelopment of the complex.


“The north and south warehouse proposals are similar. We’ll remove some of the later additions at roof level, and return the buildings to their original form.


“The area of the south warehouse closest to the Tobacco Warehouse will be offices and the other end will be accommodation.


“The Tobacco Warehouse itself is a challenging building. Just the sheer size of it is an enormous logistical issue.


“It’s 160ft from window to window and the ceiling height is only 7ft, it’s very deep and very shallow.


“We’re going to take the core out of the building and create at central courtyard with gardens.”


Some apartments will be a duplex with a two-storey high living area. The windows will also be enlarged.


One-bedroom flats will surround the courtyard, while the building will also have 372 two-bedroom apartments and 53 three-bedroom flats.


Offices, shops and restaurants are also included in the plans.


Peter de Figueiredo, of English Heritage, said: “We’ve been quite closely involved in discussions with the architects and agents.


“The north and south warehouse schemes are very sympathetic. The Tobacco Warehouse requires a lot more intervention and change to make it usable.”


Stop the Rot forum chairman, the Bishop of Liverpool, the Rt Rev James Jones, said: “I welcome this development and it’s good to see them bringing in both work units and residential.”


catherinejones@liverpoolecho.co.uk

[Paul D]

This is fantastic news,how long have we waited for that?That's made my day that has,this is the knock on effect of Peels plans this.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[AK1]

This is great news! This is yet another example of how our redevelopment will continue far beyond 2008. This is a fantastic proposal and it's great to see that EH are backing it aswell. It's great to see that more and more organisations are showing great faith and confidence in our city. This will be a massive project which will require some amazing feets of engineering to make it happen!
:034:

[Gnomie]

Im glad the buildings are being saved, but who will live there? who will be able to afford it? outsiders?

[AK1]

Im glad the buildings are being saved, but who will live there? who will be able to afford it? outsiders?

Yes they will be expensive and there will be outsiders living there, but that's what any city needs. We need people from 'outside' to live here to boost our population and economy. There will also be local people living there, we do have well off local people aswell.
Then again, maybe some of them will be shared ownership and other similair projects aimed at first time buyers. We will have to wait and see.

[Gnomie]

we could all buy one between us and share it.:)

[snoochie boochie]

Probably a crowd of them eastern folk, who swindle all our cash points. there very popular round here at the moment.

[Gnomie]

http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/v35.jpg

Im glad its been saved, imagine if that was gone.

[Paul D]

I do hope they keep the floating restaurants from the original plans,barges were able to moor up along side them,it looked brilliant.

[snappel]

Im glad the buildings are being saved, but who will live there? who will be able to afford it? outsiders?Sorry, I don't understand this. Why can't local people afford it? There are plenty of people living in Liverpool who could buy or rent properties in the building. I don't see the logic there - sorry.

As far as the buildings go, it's great news. Personally I'd love it to stay as it is, but we all know that's not logical. The most important thing is that the warehouses structures will be preserved for decades to come. Imagine they'd been demolished like so many others! Obviously the grain silo will be demolished, but that's not exactly historic. I just hope they preserve the remains of the pumping station at the river end of the dock.

The Heritage Market will no doubt locate, but I don't care as it's a filthy mess anyway (sorry...) and was only ever good for one thing.

[AK1]

I do hope they keep the floating restaurants from the original plans,barges were able to moor up along side them,it looked brilliant.

I think there are some on the image above, next to the northern warehouse.

[Paul D]

I think there are some on the image above, next to the northern warehouse.

I'm not sure if that's the old image they've used there though,I'm inclined to think that it is,still I can't see why they wont with the new canal link already underway.

[Gnomie]

Sorry, I don't understand this. Why can't local people afford it? There are plenty of people living in Liverpool who could buy or rent properties in the building. I don't see the logic there - sorry.

As far as the buildings go, it's great news. Personally I'd love it to stay as it is, but we all know that's not logical. The most important thing is that the warehouses structures will be preserved for decades to come. Imagine they'd been demolished like so many others! Obviously the grain silo will be demolished, but that's not exactly historic. I just hope they preserve the remains of the pumping station at the river end of the dock.

The Heritage Market will no doubt locate, but I don't care as it's a filthy mess anyway (sorry...) and was only ever good for one thing.


I know Liverpool people can afford it. but it brings so many outsiders who dont want to mix with the locals. i think it pushes local people further out of the city center. still who am i to complain im just a local looking to get out of this city that is changing for the worse for my liking.

[dups45]

We might see some people who have had to move away from liverpool to find jobs moving back

My Family and many people i know always say liverpool suffers becuase there arnt enough jobs here, so the young ones like me always move away. It's True!

[Kev]

We might see some people who have had to move away from liverpool to find jobs moving back

My Family and many people i know always say liverpool suffers becuase there arnt enough jobs here, so the young ones like me always move away. It's True!

Many many ordinary people who moved away from Liverpool during the 80's are trying to move back but they are finding it extremely difficult.

[snappel]

but it brings so many outsiders who dont want to mix with the locals. i think it pushes local people further out of the city center. still who am i to complain im just a local looking to get out of this city that is changing for the worse for my liking.
I disagree. How do you know they don't want to mix with locals? I don't see how local people are pushed out of the city centre when a lot of the developments are new housing that wasn't there before. Ask yourself, why would people want to move to the city? Surely regeneration is a good thing? Let's face it, Liverpool no longer has any industry, so students, tourism and regeneration should all be embraced. Strangely though I see lots of resentment for students and people who are 'not from around here'.

Plenty of times I see people on here complaining because Manchester get this that and the other, but if you want to keep Liverpool 'for locals only' it's just not going to happen.

[The Teardrop Explodes]

It's a shame we can't get business to do anything with these buildings other give yet more apartments. If the Liverpool Waters project goes ahead, the whole around area here will be one huge yuppie apartment.

This is a grand building which should've been converted into a World & Northern Trade Centre, British Library North, National Military/Naval/Whatever Museum, another internationally significant art gallery(maybe focussing on a single movement, area or artist)....

That's the landmark significance and quality of this structure, not just to be another soulless apartment conversion, presumably gated and dead like the Waterloo..

Apartments can be built anywhere ffs, but we'll never get buildings like this again. It's a bit like selling off more of the family jewels for a pittance.

I mean could we at least not have band rehearsal spaces, local artist studios and projects (like the Buddleia), included into the scheme???
.................................................. ...............

Anyway, apartments it is. Hopefully successful, hopefully open access, and hopefully feeding round the clock life and activity in the form of bars etc, etc etc...unlike the Waterloo.

[The Teardrop Explodes]

I disagree. How do you know they don't want to mix with locals? I don't see how local people are pushed out of the city centre when a lot of the developments are new housing that wasn't there before. Ask yourself, why would people want to move to the city? Surely regeneration is a good thing? Let's face it, Liverpool no longer has any industry, so students, tourism and regeneration should all be embraced. Strangely though I see lots of resentment for students and people who are 'not from around here'.

Plenty of times I see people on here complaining because Manchester get this that and the other, but if you want to keep Liverpool 'for locals only' it's just not going to happen.

We can still have industry Snap.

There's a growing realisation in Europe that giving up on manufacture so easily her was a panic and short-sighted response. Sheffield in common with many other places in Europe are stating to claw back some of their traditional industries by developing ultra hi-tech ways of making them cheaper to produce that our competitors.

My worry is that when the industry wheel turns back in our favour again, places like Liverpool will have surrendered all it's industrial spaces to half empty holiday apartments.

[Gnomie]

I disagree. How do you know they don't want to mix with locals? I don't see how local people are pushed out of the city centre when a lot of the developments are new housing that wasn't there before. Ask yourself, why would people want to move to the city? Surely regeneration is a good thing? Let's face it, Liverpool no longer has any industry, so students, tourism and regeneration should all be embraced. Strangely though I see lots of resentment for students and people who are 'not from around here'.

Plenty of times I see people on here complaining because Manchester get this that and the other, but if you want to keep Liverpool 'for locals only' it's just not going to happen.

I have my opinions and you have yours.

I lived in Faulkner street with the students for 8 years, i drank in student hangouts and had a ball with them, half my family are Irish, many live in the Wirral. my best friend is from Sevilla. i dont think i have anything against people who are not from this city. I dont like jolly boys coming here and taking over, i have done lots of work in the Albert Dock apartments, mainly for solicitors, bankers and business people. money people will live in the Stanley Dock. Liverpool is the place to be for them at the moment, will it in 5-10 years?

what about the people in areas like Norris green, croxteth, anfield, dovecot, dingle etc,etc, what does it mean to them? are these new apartments helping to stop crime in their area? catch the drug dealers? stop the joyriders?

also the Stanley Dock area was once home to thousands, are they being remembered in any way by this? will they build anything to show the history of the area? my ancestors worked there, they where very poor but survived the hardships. will they be remembered ? i doubt it. Thank god for the Scottie press for showing it like it was. i think they should give the flats to all the locals who stayed on in the area. make them affordable for locals to buy.
fat chance .

I now work mostly on the outskirts of the city. the people are real there.
I have a long term plan that will see me move away one day, how i hope it comes sooner.:PDT_Piratz_26:

Power to the people:PDT11

[Gnomie]

It's a shame we can't get business to do anything with these buildings other give yet more apartments. If the Liverpool Waters project goes ahead, the whole around area here will be one huge yuppie apartment.

This is a grand building which should've been converted into a World & Northern Trade Centre, British Library North, National Military/Naval/Whatever Museum, another internationally significant art gallery(maybe focussing on a single movement, area or artist)....

That's the landmark significance and quality of this structure, not just to be another soulless apartment conversion, presumably gated and dead like the Waterloo..

Apartments can be built anywhere ffs, but we'll never get buildings like this again. It's a bit like selling off more of the family jewels for a pittance.

I mean could we at least not have band rehearsal spaces, local artist studios and projects (like the Buddleia), included into the scheme???
.................................................. ...............

Anyway, apartments it is. Hopefully successful, hopefully open access, and hopefully feeding round the clock life and activity in the form of bars etc, etc etc...unlike the Waterloo.

Bravo :handclap: something for the people :)

[snappel]

what about the people in areas like Norris green, croxteth, anfield, dovecot, dingle etc,etc, what does it mean to them? are these new apartments helping to stop crime in their area? catch the drug dealers? stop the joyriders?
I don't see how that's relevant.

The Teardrop Explodes... regarding the industry, yes, there'll always be new industry, but it'll never be like it was. Nowhere in Britain will it ever be like it was. There'll always be things here and there, but it's not like the days when dockside industry provided employment for a large percentage of the cities population.

Whatever, I'm glad they're doing something with the dock warehouses. Yes, the other suggestions would be better, but apartments are better than demolition.

[The Teardrop Explodes]

Bravo :handclap: something for the people :)

I really wanted that complex to be turned into a major gallery, a major library, just something of National and International significance, and for it to include worshops, projects, and studios for the disadvantaged kids of N.Liverpool to work alongside and learn from artists and musicians from the entire region.

Oh well...

[Gnomie]

You could have so many things going on in there, imagine it. how good would that be.

[Kev]

As a market its proved sucessful, however, the building is too significant to just sit there opening of a weekend only.

[Gnomie]

I agree Kev, but training centers, arts, music etc would keep it open all week.:)

[The Teardrop Explodes]

As a market its proved sucessful, however, the building is too significant to just sit there opening of a weekend only.

And too significant to be just another dead Waterloo mk2 flat conversion?

Ok let this happen, but let it happen with loads of new shops and bars and access for EVERYONE..Also let all those new businesses be locally owned and run new start-up, and not the usual sterile corporate-chain ****e you get on EVERY new development...

Why can't Liverpool trailbaze a whole new, unque LOCAL way of managing new development?

[snappel]

They should have lots of public areas, and lots of photos of the warehouse in use on the walls...

[lindylou]

Got to agree with Gnomie here.

I am made up that something will get done with the buildings. It's excellent news, but it doesn't mean anything to me as an Anfield resident with not much hope of getting out.

Some of you have said that L'pool people can afford to live in these apartments .. well, I can safely say that no one I know could even dream of renting or owning one of them.

Of course, we do have a proffessional class here - we do have SOME Liverpudlians who can afford them .. but in general there are thousands of people from the districts that Gnomie listed that it will be meaningless to.

[phredd]

Will we see any of these on the Canal when the dock is finished >>>>

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/tropus/amsterdamboat.jpg

Would make a nice tourist attraction and a commuter link with the city.
Phredd

[Gnomie]

Thats very sad Gerard, poor woman.

What are they planning to put in their place? and make sure they leave St Josephs door alone.

[Gerard]

Thats very sad Gerard, poor woman.

What are they planning to put in their place? and make sure they leave St Josephs door alone.

A new housing estate I think Tony..St Joey's door will be next mate.
I predict it will be gone along with the School within the next 3/4 years.

[Gnomie]

A new housing estate I think Tony..St Joey's door will be next mate.
I predict it will be gone along with the School within the next 3/4 years.

Sad if they take it.

[AK1]

To say that it won't have any effect on people in areas like Anfield isn't true. Developments like these bring people into the city who spend money which goes into the Liverpool economy, therefore creating more money that can be spent in areas like Anfield.
It isn't like there's nothing going on in the outlying areas of the city. There is new housing for local people being built in places like norris green, kensington and toxteth which also include community centres and improved security like CCTV and better lighting. There are also massive projects such as the Great Homer St project in Everton and the complete transformation of Anfield and Breckfield. These will refurbish existing houses and build brand new homes. They will also create hundreds of jobs and improve the environment and facilities for local residents.
Any news like this is great news for everyone in the city. It also helps to improve local peoples' opinoins of Liverpool and can create a sense of pride and confidence in our city.:)

[Gnomie]

Do you believe they will channel money into these areas? i doubt it will be much.

Rumour has it that LFC are footing the bill to improve areas of Anfield.

Will these people who live in Stanley dock ever visit these areas(apart from football)

[Gnomie]

Removed:unibrow:

[Gerard]

To say that it won't have any effect on people in areas like Anfield isn't true. Developments like these bring people into the city who spend money which goes into the Liverpool economy, therefore creating more money that can be spent in areas like Anfield.
It isn't like there's nothing going on in the outlying areas of the city. There is new housing for local people being built in places like norris green, kensington and toxteth which also include community centres and improved security like CCTV and better lighting. There are also massive projects such as the Great Homer St project in Everton and the complete transformation of Anfield and Breckfield. These will refurbish existing houses and build brand new homes. They will also create hundreds of jobs and improve the environment and facilities for local residents.
Any news like this is great news for everyone in the city. It also helps to improve local peoples' opinoins of Liverpool and can create a sense of pride and confidence in our city.:)


Wheres all the money gone that has been brought in to date since all these new Apartment Developments..
Pumped back in to build more !!
I'll tell ......... that,,I'm sure She will be made up.

[Gerard]

Do you believe they will channel money into these areas? i doubt it will be much.

Rumour has it that LFC are footing the bill to improve areas of Anfield.

Will these people who live in Stanley dock ever visit these areas(apart from football)

Quite right Tony..:handclap:

[AK1]

Do you believe they will channel money into these areas? i doubt it will be much.

Rumour has it that LFC are footing the bill to improve areas of Anfield.

Will these people who live in Stanley dock ever visit these areas(apart from football)

LFC aren't funding any of the regeneration in Anfield. They are funding the stadium and imrovements to the park. The regeneration of the area around the park is being funded by the council, NWDA, EU funding and govt money.
All this aside, getting private companies to fund regeneration isn't anything new. Cities all over the world have done this for years. This can be the best way of doing it, as private companies often have alot more money.

[Gerard]

LFC aren't funding any of the regeneration in Anfield. They are funding the stadium and imrovements to the park. The regeneration of the area around the park is being funded by the council, NWDA, EU funding and govt money.
All this aside, getting private companies to fund regeneration isn't anything new. Cities all over the world have done this for years. This can be the best way of doing it, as private companies often have alot more money.

How come no mention about the Lady I mentioned or what she has to put up with while all these New developments are going on around her for Money People !!

[Gnomie]

As i said Rumour has it about the LFC funding. still the rumour has stuck all the years the new ground has been on the agenda and nothing has been done in the area in all that time.

hmmmmmmmn:ninja:

[AK1]

[QUOTE=AK1;47748]To say that it won't have any effect on people in areas like Anfield isn't true. QUOTE]


Hope the lady in Gerards post is reading this.

It is impossible to please everyone. There are always going to be people who complain. The fact is, alot of lives have improved or are being improved by major projects outside the city centre.

[Gerard]

Dont know how you will reply but it took me to prompt you on it while your going on about how grand it be will when its all done..Shame on you.

[AK1]

As i said Rumour has it about the LFC funding. still the rumour has stuck all the years the new ground has been on the agenda and nothing has been done in the area in all that time.

hmmmmmmmn:ninja:

It was impossible to do anything until LFC finalised their plans and confirmed exactly what the plan was going to be. It would be pointless refurbishing empty houses only to find out that LFC wanted to demolish them.
Some work has actually been done. Some of the 60's houses across the road from the stadium have been extensively refurbished.

[Gnomie]

Oakfield road up to breck road remains untouched, how big is the ground.

[AK1]

Dont know how you will reply but it took me to prompt you on it while your going on about how grand it be will when its all done..Shame on you.

Isn't that how this works? You talk about an issue, which leads to other issues being raised which you then talk about. If you look on the main Urban Developments page you will see a post that I placed called Outside City Centre, where I asked people to show images of projects outside the city centre and to talk about them.

[Gerard]

Isn't that how this works? You talk about an issue, which leads to other issues being raised which you then talk about. If you look on the main Urban Developments page you will see a post that I placed called Outside City Centre, where I asked people to show images of projects outside the city centre and to talk about them.

I talked about an Issue and you never commented on it until I prompted you.
You were more Interested in Going on about How Lovely it would be and you never even Commented on that Lady's plight..
As I said..Shame on you..
Never mind Real peoples plights Eh..Lets talk about How Lovely Stanley dock will be for the priveledged who can afford the £400,000 or whatever they will cost.
I'll say it again...Shame on you.

[Gnomie]

Im shuttin up before we start a war:eek:

Yes its great the building will be saved. whatever we all think about its use.

Gerard i think it would be best to start a thread on the ladys plight, im sure it will recieve plenty of post.

[AK1]

I talked about an Issue and you never commented on it until I prompted you.
You were more Interested in Going on about How Lovely it would be and you never even Commented on that Lady's plight..
As I said..Shame on you..
Never mind Real peoples plights Eh..Lets talk about How Lovely Stanley dock will be for the priveledged who can afford the £400,000 or whatever they will cost.
I'll say it again...Shame on you.

Okay, that's your opinion, but no mater what you think, I do actually care about peoples' plight. All I am trying to say is that no matter where you are, there are always going to be people who suffer in some way and yes, something should be done about it and it is unacceptable. I wouldn't like it if it was me. I just don't like it when people use individual cases when talking about an issue. Yes she is in a very bad situation, but there are a hell of alot more who are in improving situations.

[Gnomie]

Done Gerard.

its on me quote on your reply mate. you will have to adjust it.

[Gerard]

Okay, that's your opinion, but no mater what you think, I do actually care about peoples' plight. All I am trying to say is that no matter where you are, there are always going to be people who suffer in some way and yes, something should be done about it and it is unacceptable. I wouldn't like it if it was me. I just don't like it when people use individual cases when talking about an issue. Yes she is in a very bad situation, but there are a hell of alot more who are in improving situations.

You dont like it when people use Individual Situations..Who is going to speak up for the likes of this woman...Definately not the likes of you who are more concerned about Lovely New Apartments and bringing people in from out of town.
Listen..I think me and you had better leave this at this..Id get up and walk away from you if you said that in a Pub..And so would half the Pub if they were decent people..End of on a good note.

[lindylou]

Im shuttin up before we start a war:eek:

Yes its great the building will be saved. whatever we all think about its use.

Gerard i think it would be best to start a thread on the ladys plight, im sure it will recieve plenty of post.

yes, it is good that the building will be saved - that is the most important thing regardless of it's use.

As for that lady -- I don't know how she copes with living in those surroundings. I couldn't stand it.

[AK1]

You dont like it when people use Individual Situations..Who is going to speak up for the likes of this woman...Definately not the likes of you who are more concerned about Lovely New Apartments and bringing people in from out of town.
Listen..I think me and you had better leave this at this..Id get up and walk away from you if you said that in a Pub..And so would half the Pub if they were decent people..End of on a good note.

OK, I do think it's good that you are highlighting this womans problem and as I said, her situation is completely unacceptable. Sorry if I have caused any offence, I didn't mean any.

[Gnomie]

Hey guys we have all had our say.

group hug :hug:

am going mad or did i read in the paper a while back that they wanted to turn Stanley Dock into a museum, with actors playing the role of old workers?

be kind about the going mad bit.

[Gerard]

Taken the photies off...
It will be in the Echo before She wants it there if the last hour is anything to go by !!

[Gnomie]

Ged post 48. its on my quote. you will have to snap it mate.

this sounds dodgy :rolleyes: Kev its not honest:)

[Gerard]

OK, I do think it's good that you are highlighting this womans problem and as I said, her situation is completely unacceptable. Sorry if I have caused any offence, I didn't mean any.

Stop it !!!..Got me feeling guity now..My appologies AK.

[AK1]

Can I just say, with no relevance to the previous issue that I do agree that there should be more things for people to do, see and explore, instead of just turning everything into apartments. The city must be opened up for the public to use and enjoy!

[AK1]

Stop it !!!..Got me feeling guity now..My appologies AK.

You don't have to apologise. Nothing you said was offensive, it is just your opinion.

[Gerard]

Ged post 48. its on my quote. you will have to snap it mate.

this sounds dodgy :rolleyes: Kev its not honest:)


Done !!

[snappel]

What lady?

As I said before, I'm sure I see the connection between Stanley Dock and Anfield, etc. The firms funding these developments aren't charities coming to Liverpool to 'help out', they're coming to make money. I.e. they'll invest in a development and reap the rewards. Building houses in Anfield just wouldn't be as lucrative for these companies.

Yes it may sound harsh, but such is life. However, the bonus for Liverpool is that (if nothing else) three empty virtually disused warehouses are being converted into something good. This brings employment (if only temporary), more business to the area and will help to make Liverpool a nicer place by regenerating a rundown area, and also raising the loca house prices in the long run (yes, ****e if you moved out in the 1980s, but good if you stayed put).

[Gerard]

I am absolutely delighted AK with the way our City is going forward and the Developments that are under construction,We will soon have a town as good as any and something for My Grandkids to be proud of..(When they come along !)
I'm not having a go at New apartment develpments just for the sake of it..
I would really like to know though when Houses are going to get built for Ordinary people..
Anyone who says Ordinary people can afford whats going to be developed in Stanley Dock are Kidding themselves,Or just wont admit it..Theyr'e gonna cost at least £400,000 by the time they are finished.
Can anyone answer this one...Where and when was a traditional Housing estate last put up in Liverpool..I cant remember..
Otterspool !!..I dunno..

[AK1]

I agree, these apartments won't be affordable to the average joe, but there will be people in Liverpool who can afford them. When I said there are houses being built and refurbished, they are actually being built now. Ellergreen in norris green, numerous houses under refurbishment in kenny and houses being built in toxteth. There are also houses and apartments being built all over the city that are shared ownership only, specifically for low income or first time buyers.

[Gerard]

I agree, these apartments won't be affordable to the average joe, but there will be people in Liverpool who can afford them. When I said there are houses being built and refurbished, they are actually being built now. Ellergreen in norris green, numerous houses under refurbishment in kenny and houses being built in toxteth. There are also houses and apartments being built all over the city that are shared ownership only, specifically for low income or first time buyers.


People are even being taken out of Council dwellings to make them into Yuppie apartments..
That cant be right !!...

[snappel]

Right, I'm not going to stir up any more arguments. Instead, here are some photos taken from various places over the last year, plus a few from inside the south warehouse.


http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/1.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/2.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/3.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/4.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/5.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/6.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/7.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/8.jpg

http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/9.jpg

[Howie]

Dock market fear for jobs
Mar 28 2007
by Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icliverpool/mar2007/4/8/92F1ADB4-E7CC-3E14-3AFBAF46AC0E1C74.jpg

LIVERPOOL’S Sunday heritage market could be moved elsewhere in the city if its Stanley Dock home is redeveloped.

The weekly event will have to leave its historic waterfront home if multi-million pound plans to transform the old tobacco warehouse are approved.

But owner Kitgrove hopes to hold talks with Liverpool council about its future and possible relocation.

The market will have to move because the new plan, unveiled by the ECHO yesterday, involves digging out the centre of the main warehouse to create a garden courtyard.

All three buildings on the Grade II-listed site would then be converted into apartments.

Kitgrove’s agent David Smith said: “If we get planning permission, we would not start work until late 2008 or the beginning of 2009 at the earliest.

“I envisage that we would start discussions with the council regarding the future of the heritage market over the course of the next two years.

“I do not think there is any real need to have firm proposals at the moment, because we have plenty of time.”

But traders are already concerned about what the future holds for their businesses.

Dash Sidhu, who has run a ladies fashion stall at the heritage market for 15 years, said: “This is not really a surprise – it has been on the cards for a long while.

“There are a lot of people who will be worried about their jobs if it closes.”

Kitgrove’s plan was welcomed today by community leaders, who hope it will boost the regeneration of deprived north Liverpool.

Kirkdale councillor Joe Hanson said: “We want to see this site developed because it looks derelict at the moment.”

What you have to say

Andy Salter, 42, of Litherland says: “Something needs to be done with that site. They didn’t have much space inside the old Tobacco Warehouse, so it would be interesting to see what they do with it.”

Kaylei Cook, 18, Walton: “It’s a great idea. It looks so scruffy down there. I used to live by that area so I know it would be a good thing. With the Capital of Culture, why not?”

Kim Romano, 42, Liverpool: “I don’t think they should just tear apart a monument to Liverpool’s history, they should build a museum there or something. The Heritage Market is part of who we are.”

Anita Hale, 34, Everton: “The old buildings need to go. The Heritage Market is old and cold anyway, I never go down there. They should get rid of it as soon as possible.”

Michael Newton, 48, Northwich says: “I think more shops is a bad idea. We’ve got enough as it is. And after this, they’ll just keep on building, it’s ridiculous.”

Jed James, 46, who runs a butcher’s stall in St Johns Market, says: “If the Stanley Dock reconstruction affects livelihoods then it’s definitely a bad thing. Too many jobs are being lost these days.”

nick.coligan@liverpool.com

Source: icLiverpool (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpoolecho/news/echonews/tm_headline=dock-market-fear-for-jobs%26method=full%26objectid=18817453%26siteid=50 061-name_page.html)

[snappel]

Anita Hale, 34, Everton: “The old buildings need to go. The Heritage Market is old and cold anyway, I never go down there. They should get rid of it as soon as possible.”
Stupid cow. I bet she reads Heat magazine. How can you not appreciate such a spectacular building?


Jed James, 46, who runs a butcher’s stall in St Johns Market, says: “If the Stanley Dock reconstruction affects livelihoods then it’s definitely a bad thing. Too many jobs are being lost these days.”
This bloke's missed the point a bit. You can't justify keeping three buildings almost virtually empty just to keep some market traders on the ground floor happy. I'm sure there are plenty of places nearby the market could be relocated to.

I would be nice if they did some organised tours of the main warehouse before conversion, but no doubt they won't...

[wallasey]

All I have to say is that its as good as its going to get!

However, wont these plans come into conflict with the Liverpool Waters Scheme?

EDIT: Why are they making a fuss about the Heritage Market? I heard that they were going to re-locate the market somewhere else!

[Ged]

Whatever happened to the top floor of St John's after the fire. It always bemused me why the Church Street stall holders and/or the council didn't see this space as obvious, is it a danger or something, it's not in use is it or have I been walking around with my eyes shut?

[Gnomie]

Dock market fear for jobs
Mar 28 2007


Kim Romano, 42, Liverpool: “I don’t think they should just tear apart a monument to Liverpool’s history, they should build a museum there or something. The Heritage Market is part of who we are.”



:handclap: :handclap: :handclap: :handclap: :handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

[Gnomie]

Great pics Snappel.

My great grandfather was a PRESSMAN here. im wondering what all the machinery is.

[snappel]

Really? The machinery shown there in the first two pictures are presses. The first is a hydraulic one, and the second is a set of screw presses. These are all in the south warehouse. On the ground floor of the Tobacco Warehouse are the remains of another set of screw presses.

If your grandfather was a 'pressman', then I'm guessing he would have operated this equipment. Tobacco was stored in 'hogshead' containers, and the lids had to be pressed on. Interestingly the Tobacco warehouse was designed around the dimensions of the hogsheads, and this accounts for the low ceilings - something which will provide an interesting challenge for the architects!

I don't suppose your grandfather is still alive, or left any memoirs did he? I've been having very little luck finding accounts from people who worked in the warehouses.

[ChrisGeorge]

Right, I'm not going to stir up any more arguments. Instead, here are some photos taken from various places over the last year, plus a few from inside the south warehouse. . . .


http://tk41.powweb.com/photos/sdock/8.jpg


Great photographs as usual, Snappel. I was wondering if you might have close ups of that graffiti on the black boarding to the right of the door (a monkey's face?) and of the number above the door. Thanks in advance.

Chris

[snappel]

Sorry Chris, I don't have any. I'll ask a couple of other people who were with me if they can help. I'd like to spend a day in there really and go over the place in better detail.

[ChrisGeorge]

Sorry Chris, I don't have any. I'll ask a couple of other people who were with me if they can help. I'd like to spend a day in there really and go over the place in better detail.

Okay, just thought I would ask in case you happened to focus in on them.

Chris

[Gnomie]

Really? The machinery shown there in the first two pictures are presses. The first is a hydraulic one, and the second is a set of screw presses. These are all in the south warehouse. On the ground floor of the Tobacco Warehouse are the remains of another set of screw presses.

If your grandfather was a 'pressman', then I'm guessing he would have operated this equipment. Tobacco was stored in 'hogshead' containers, and the lids had to be pressed on. Interestingly the Tobacco warehouse was designed around the dimensions of the hogsheads, and this accounts for the low ceilings - something which will provide an interesting challenge for the architects!

I don't suppose your grandfather is still alive, or left any memoirs did he? I've been having very little luck finding accounts from people who worked in the warehouses.


Cheers Snappel:PDT_Piratz_26:

can i copy the pics to my computer please.

It was my great Grandfather who worked there as a Pressman. he also worked as a Oil Pressman but ive not found out where.

He is long gone Snappel, Germans got him in WW1, 1917:tear:

but here he is in Uniform.
http://h1.ripway.com/andalucia/family/johnhogan.jpg

[snappel]

He is long gone Snappel, Germans got him in WW1, 1917:tear:
A brave man then - he has my respect.

Yes, certainly copy the photos. I'll try and do a new thread on the Stanley warehouses (all three) in the Urban Exploration section and put up a better selection of pictures.

[Gnomie]

Thanks Snappel.

I would love to get in to see this stuff, great pics:handclap:

[lindylou]

Im glad the buildings are being saved, but who will live there? who will be able to afford it? outsiders?

Here's a prime example of who can afford to live in these luxury dwellings:

L'pool Echo. Wednesday:
... guns, drugs and ammunition were found. the Matrix team swooped at the exclusive Beetham Tower, Old hall st.


Makes you wonder doesn't it. What you have to be to afford one of those luxury places.

Well, you'd have to be a high flying exec with a large salary; or a loadsa' money gangsta' ... I don't think those places are for the average Joe Bloggs are they :unibrow:

[snappel]

Well, my point was that either the gangsters or execs could be local to Liverpool.

Anyway, I think it's all about supply and demand. Right now there's a big market for that kind of accomodation. Due to house price rises, even if more developments were started in the suburbs, they'd still be quite pricey.

[lindylou]

Yes, that's true enough. The cost of housing in the suburbs is ridiculous. Prices of property - even the humble terrace is way out.
A new build detached - some astronomical figure.

[petromax]

Peel have been trying to buy Stanley Dock warehouses for inclusion in the Liverpool Waters scheme as a leisure/ museum/ waterfront/ next AlbertDock

There will be apartments, there will be cars but there will be floating barges and restaurants and great places to visit.

It's just that if the warehouses are sold to Peel, they will have to pay more for them with planning permission that has been applied for.

[Paul D]

Public notices in the Daily Post..........................

07F/0931

1) To demolish extention to northern warehouse (rum) and silo, and convert northern warehouse so as to comprise 1772sqm of cafes/restaurants and bars
with 135 apartments. Create an open area of space and light sail sculptures and create floating pontoons for restaurants and bars.

2)Alter,extend and convert Tobacco Warehouse so as to comprise 3426sqm of business uses, 2792sqm of exhibition space and a gym of 939sqm together with 647 apartments. Erect a MSCP and 3 floating pontoons for recreation use.

3) Demolish south warehouse annexe and covert to provide 149 apartments,7345sqm of business space and 730sqm of retail space and provide surface level car parking.

So this looks like a serious proposal this time,the application has gone in.:)

[snappel]

By south warehouse annexe do they mean the lower bit round the back used for the market?

[PhilipG]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/210/481150929_f68c786e8b_o.jpg

[Paul D]

By south warehouse annexe do they mean the lower bit round the back used for the market?

I'm not sure Snappel?


Erect a MSCP and 3 floating pontoons for recreation use.

I think these were going to be used for the floating restaurants,just imagine how great that would be.:)

[drone_pilot]

LIVERPOOL’S popular Stanley Dock Heritage market was axed today after a
row with the city council over dodgy traders.

Read More (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=stanley-dock-market-is-axed%26method=full%26objectid=19358235%26siteid=50 061-name_page.html)

[Max]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TbqBPmInjQ

Filming an anti Piracy advert doesn't work In a pub, now filming It In the Heritage Market would of worked.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[steveb]

Yes read that in the Echo, must admit that on the occassions I went
there were loads of, " dodgy", CD/DVD,s for sale some of them the real
ones hadn't even been released...know what I mean John :handclap:

[Kev]

Its what makes de 'eritage, de 'eritage.

[Max]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JvTYTvFCqSM

:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Ged]

It wasn't closed down by trading stadards officers though, they're as surprised as anyone on the interview on the radio.

[Kev]

Do u think its a big blag to get them out for the redevelopment? $$$$

[jon_hall]

Wouldn't surprise me. Wonder if i can find the pirates to flog them blank discs?

[snappel]

Do u think its a big blag to get them out for the redevelopment? $$$$
I doubt it. Kitgrove could probably kick them out whenever they like. I don't they're in a rush to start work on the Tobacco Warehouse anyway.

So, yet another case of a minority spoiling it for everyone else. I expect a lot of the stall owners were relying on the extra income to support mortgages, etc.

[shank]

I doubt it. Kitgrove could probably kick them out whenever they like. I don't they're in a rush to start work on the Tobacco Warehouse anyway.

So, yet another case of a minority spoiling it for everyone else. I expect a lot of the stall owners were relying on the extra income to support mortgages, etc.

hardly think you can say its the minority yes minority of stalls selling fake goods but it is the majority of customers that are buying knowingly that the goods are fake and all so traders aren't soft they no who supplies most of the fake goods anyway they could put a stop to it if they wanted to but there to afraid of the consequences iam speaking as an ex market trader

[snappel]

Well, the consequences now are that the market is closed, although I expect a lot of the traders will go to other markets.

The only good thing I liked about going to that market was the fact that I was in such an amazing historic building. Hated the way they tried to liken it to London's Camden Market though...

[Ged]

The Market owners only had to take a snoop around to see who was selling fake goods and inform the Trading standards and hey presto, job done, the legit traders could then get on with trading. It seems the TS are miffed that they didn't get that co-operation and they had to find these things out for themselves with raids. The TS said they'd noticed a trail off of customers since the previous raids, implying that a lot only went their for the 'blag' bargains.

[Kev]

LIVERPOOL’S historic Stanley Dock market will be open for business on Sunday after operators won an injunction to remove security guards from the site. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/06/29/historic-dock-market-will-reopen-after-court-ruling-64375-19376305/)

[Max]

Which one Is Stanley Dock?

Too many names for the docks! :mad:

[Ged]

Haven't you been there yet Max, it's the Heritage market between the Goat and the Bull pubs on Great Howard Street.

[Ged]

Here it is Max, the old Stanley Dock tobacco warehouse. The biggest brick built building in Europe, possible the world, still standing.

[snappel]

That article says security have been evicted. I take it that means a security firm brought in when the market closed? The place has always had 24hour guards anyway. Surely they can't run the market with no security guards at all, that would be stupid!

[Max]

Here it is Max, the old Stanley Dock tobacco warehouse. The biggest brick built building in Europe, possible the world, still standing.

Not been there but I past that when I met Pete.

[Kev]

MANAGERS at Liverpool’s Stanley Dock are encouraging artists, thespians and shoppers to converge on the historic site to keep it alive, and they want to turn the space into an alternative destination for Capital of Culture year. Read (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2007/07/21/dock-aims-for-alternative-capital-of-culture-crown-64375-19488666/)

[Ged]

Packing up time.


http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/48/heritagegrottoaw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Either they've forgotten to take it down or advertising it 11 months in advance. This is the Regent Road (Dock Road) end of the Stanley Dock Tobacco Warehouse Sunday Heritage Market.


http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5747/heritagewallba8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


St. George's Hall can easily fit inside the mass of this Grade II listed building.


http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9655/heritagelkngwcloserzz7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Bridges link two of the buildings, here, looking West towards the River, they have been brightly painted.


http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9567/heritagelkngelh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And here, in the opposite direction.


http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2325/heritage1900hseuk6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The Dock offices, dating from 1900.


http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/645/heritagecamden2oy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The idea is for the atmospheric feel of a Portobello Road or Camden, London market stall area.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/959/heritagewhseslf4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The Warehouses to the North across Stanley Dock.

[snappel]

The idea is for the atmospheric feel of a Portobello Road or Camden, London market stall area.

http://www.lafferty.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fail-24.jpg

[Max]

I''ve only ever gone In there to look for toilets.

Not much of a fan of Market Stalls.

[gregs dad]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2059/2274295126_f6c3cec90e_o.jpg
In the winter sunshine

[Kev]

Stanley Dock Heritage Market

LIVERPOOL’S Heritage Market is to be relaunched.

The future of the market at Stanley Dock was plunged into doubt last year after a row about counterfeit goods resulted in plummeting visitor numbers.

About 180 stallholders signed a petition calling for council support in their bid to become part of a long term plan to refurbish Stanley Dock.

The heritage market briefly closed last summer when it emerged owner Kitgrove was being threatened with prosecution by the council if it did not tackle counterfeiting.

But operator NW1 went to court and won an injunction to keep the market open until the end of its lease in 2009.

The market relaunch will be marked with a family fun day on Sunday, May 4. more (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/03/27/relaunch-for-stanley-dock-heritage-market-100252-20679025/)

[Ged]

I''ve only ever gone In there to look for toilets.

Not much of a fan of Market Stalls.


Ha ha, must have wandered a bit out of your way then mate - where was your starting point and did your leg get warm en route (or worse :shock:)

[Adam (Kos)]

I traded in there for about 4 years up untill three weeks ago as a way to top up business ( no blag gear BTW:rolleyes:)
One of the reasons for the decline as I believe it was a concerted effort by LCC to close it down for redevelopment by using methods of attrition. In January 07, twelve raids were carried out by trading standards in as many weeks, at first it was the blatant counterfeiters that were hit ( Fair enough ) but in the latter weeks genuine stuff was being confiscated for 'further inspections' to be returned weeks later, it was becoming so bad that honest traders were being concerned that wholesalers were duping them with less than genuine stock. TS were becoming realy pedant. Then one week in May the papers gave front page news ( AXED ) about the impending closure and announced its re-opening the following week in a small paragraph on an inner page, the damage done !! The trade fell dramatically overnight and never really picked up. I popped in last Sunday to find it pretty dead.
Unfortunately the less than diplomatic attitude of some of NW one's management also did little to help matters as well as rumoured / alleged 'debts' to various advertisers including radio stations. ( Which might explain the papers unwillingness to make a front page retraction of the 'AXED news. )

[Ged]

Glad you're highlighting it Adam. Us casual shoppers and browsers wouldn't know otherwise of the spurious goings on. Ron Formby of www.scottiepress.org flags up the heritage market on his vauxhall tours and on his site and in his community newspaper. Maybe he should know of things like this as it seems he knows of the organisers of the market.

[Adam (Kos)]

Glad you're highlighting it Adam. Us casual shoppers and browsers wouldn't know otherwise of the spurious goings on. Ron Formby of www.scottiepress.org flags up the heritage market on his vauxhall tours and on his site and in his community newspaper. Maybe he should know of things like this as it seems he knows of the organisers of the market.
Thanks, if you know the chap perhaps you could flag the May 4th event to him?
Personally I'm quite saddened by the whole affair, my late Mum loved it when she came up here in the 90s. In my early days there and as one of the first traders in the new 'S1' as it is known, I was doing very well and needed an assistant to help keep up with the demand for my wares, later last year I could quite hapily ( Not ) take a stroll around the market with the knowledge that no one was around to purchase diddly squat from me.

I realy hope the re-launch goes well, if so, I'll return as a trader, all be it with something else that's unique.:unibrow:

[Adam (Kos)]

Well folks, I'm giving at another go on a trial bases from the 4th. I'll be in the main food hall. ( Beats 5 am starts at other venues )

[Kev]

AMBITIOUS plans to redevelop Liverpool’s Stanley Dock are expected to get the go-ahead from the council next week. Read (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/06/04/go-ahead-hopes-for-120m-dream-100252-21021202/)

[Kev]

Stanley Dock scheme gets the go-ahead

STANLEY DOCK will see renovation work start at the beginning of 2009, the owner’s agents said last night.

Liverpool planning committee yesterday granted permission for the site to be transformed into more than 900 apartments, offices and leisure facilities.

The tobacco building is thought to be the largest brick building in Europe, but the site has been derelict for almost 50 years.

Hugh Stallard, a founding director at property agents Spring 4, who are acting for owners Kitgrove, refused to comment on whether funds were in place to bankroll the £120m scheme.

But he said he hoped to work with the city council over the next six months to finalise the programme.

Although he hopes work will begin on site at the start of 2009, he insisted it was necessary to “watch this space” when asked for a guarantee of the timetable.

The plans include hollowing out the centre of the Grade II listed tobacco warehouse to create an internal car park and garden courtyard surrounded by new homes.

The 200m long, 50m wide building caused a headache for architects because so little light made it to the centre. Coring out the centre was thought to be the only way of making the space habitable.

The building will also have 11,000 sq m of office space and 2,790 sq m for exhibitions.

There will be an exclusion zone on part of the roof to provide a nesting area for peregrine falcons.

More than 900 flats will be created in the three warehouses on the site, with 634 duplexes in the 14-storey tobacco warehouse.

Because there is currently only 2.3m between each of the floors the duplexes will be partly double height and with a mezzanine floor for sleeping space.

The area makes up a large proportion of the city’s Unesco World Heritage site.

Howard Carter, director of architecture at Thinking Space, said the design had been “conservation-led”.

He added: “It was a major test to integrate it and make it accessible at ground floor level. We’ve put a lock bridge across the canal and we’re making maximum use of the building’s waterside location and also giving public access to the site.

“A major challenge was how to use the tobacco warehouse because it’s such a complex building.”

The Grade II* listed five-storey neighbouring north warehouse will have cafes, restaurants and bars, and 135 open-plan flats.
A 20th century extension and a silo will be demolished.

Reflective sails will be installed on the dock to shine extra light on the side of the warehouse.

An annex to the Grade II listed south warehouse will be demolished and the remaining building converted into 149 flats, business and retail space.

THE development, which includes underground car parking, is expected to take six years to complete.

Kitgrove have owned the site since buying it from receivers in 1998. They unveiled similar plans in 2003 and secured planning permission to convert the north warehouse into 84 apartments.

Mr Stallard said in 2003 they hoped that phase would be completed “well before” 2008”, but work never started on the scheme. He said that was because, while the planning consent established the principle of converting the buildings into apartments, the scheme was not intensive enough because the apartments were too large.

He told the Liverpool Daily Post: “That’s why we applied for a master plan for the whole site.

“We want to get started on this as soon as possible. I would like to be all ready to go at the beginning of 2009. It’s phased and we would like to see it done as soon as reasonably possible.”

The dock system was designed by Albert Dock mastermind Jessie Hartley and built between 1850 and 1857, with the tobacco warehouse added in 1901. Mr Stallard added: “The scheme sets the listed buildings - the north and south warehouses and the tobacco warehouse - back into their original setting.

“The challenge is for everybody to work together to find uses for those buildings to maintain them for future generations.”

Councillors only narrowly granted permission, with six committee members voting for the plans and four voting against.

Objections were raised about the number of one bedroom apartments. With 409 out of 918, they make up 44.5% of the development, even though the council aims to cap new developments to 40%.

Committee chair Cllr John Irving said if the application was for a new tower block he would have insisted on the cap. He told councillors that because of the complexities of the site it was “this scheme or nothing”.

He said: “Out of all the schemes, I think this scheme is one of the best we have seen.

“It’s take it or leave it time and I personally think it’s we have got to go forward.”

Objecting, Cllr Anna Rothery said: “This flies in the face of everything that we are trying to achieve.

“I would love to see it developed, but one bedroomed apartments at that level – what’s to say you are going to have 500 derelict apartments down there in five years’ time?”

[Waterways]

The tobacco building is thought to be the largest brick building in Europe, but the site has been derelict for almost 50 years.

The warehouse was used until the 1980s at least, maybe the 1990s. All the warehouses were used for storage, although few ships berthed next to them and unloaded.

Jamaican rum was pumped from ships into the Stanley Dock from pipe across the Dock Rd - that was the 1970/80s.

[snappel]

I'm sure Battersea Power Station is a larger brick building.

It's going to be sad to see it converted. I'm glad that it's all being saved, and I'm sure it'll be tastefully done, but at the same time it's sad that we're losing such excellent authentic examples of dockside warehouses.

[Mike McG]

i was talking to a friend yesterday and he said that this project is on going to be put on hold for 6 months?

also, there are serious under occupancy issues already in the appartments in the city centre, what do you think the new development will do to this?

a lot of the arcades at the albert dock change hands regularly.. it doesnt seem to be booming... will stanley dock be any different?

[skgogosfan]

I hope it will be. It's so far from town they will have to attract tenants for the shops and offices. The worst thing would be for the project to start and fail halfway through leaving the building gutted. Perhaps sheer numbers of flats will enable them to be offered at reasonable prices?

Dave.

[marky]

The area around the Dock is getting ready for some filming. I'd guess it is the new Sherlock Holmes movie:
In frame for star role - Liverpool Echo.co.uk (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/08/16/in-frame-for-star-role-100252-21543392/)

[gregs dad]

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/P1050430.jpg
The film crews vehicles in the Clarence
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/P1050429.jpg
I was around the Stanley dock today came across these large doors on the Clarence entrance and a new firm in town, I presume its for the film and the catering firm arrived while I was there. Saltney St was covered in a silt like what is outside the Clarence in the photo

[Kev]

What's with the green patch GD?

[gregs dad]

I think it`s to stop nosey people, like me looking in, as it looks like a sheet of plywood painted. You can see it in the top pic from behind

[danensis]

It may be green screen, so they can add the picture they want there later.

Chroma key - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_screen)

John

[bluesareus]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2059/2274295126_f6c3cec90e_o.jpg
In the winter sunshine

Great photo gregs dad
My Mum & Dad ran the A1 at LLOYDS pub at the bottom of Lightbody St from 1961 to 1979 which was to the right of the photo

[pablo42]

Hi Snapple, what one thing? Lost me on that one. Great that they're being saved. Are they filling in another dock? Maybe I got that wrong. Don't think we need more docks filling in.

[scouse smurf]

Hi Snapple, what one thing? Lost me on that one. Great that they're being saved. Are they filling in another dock? Maybe I got that wrong. Don't think we need more docks filling in.

Snapple ain't been around for a fair while so ya might not get a reply. U'll deffo get on well with waterways coz I think he's made one or two comments against the dock filling :)

[Waterways]

Docks as flood protection:

Many of Liverpool's docks have been partially filled in to make shallow canalboat ways - a mill town development totally out of kilter with Liverpool. This precludes deep water ships contrary to the UNESCO World Heritage Site.

These docks should be deepened ASAP, and many other docks excavated: Harrington, Toxteth, the full length of Trafalgar, etc. The reasons are many, practical, safety and beneficial to the city's attractive water based future:


To get deep water ships back in the city centre (the historic ship collection at Birkenhead could not be accommodated in Liverpool).
Extend the Liverpool waterways to make an attractive water based city.
The docks are an overspill in case the Mersey lips over on the river wall, the river locks could lower to allow the surplus water to enter the empty dock basins. protecting the city beyond. This means opening up disused river locks such as at: Princes Half-Tide Dock, the larger lock at Brunswick Dock which will also allow ships into the docks once again. When high tides are expected, the river locks can be opened and closed at low tide creating a vast near empty basin, for flood water to enter if it lips on the riverwall. The Pier Head has the new canal to act as a drain for water pouring over the riverwall. The Pier Head has been flooded in the recent past.


Or, the Mersey Barrage should be built ASAP to:


Keep the river at high water for leisure and other commercial purposes
Generate green electricity.
Act as anti-flood measures. The London barrier closes at low tide when very high tides are expected and there is a flood alert, so if there is any surges running down the Thames estuary, the gates are opened slightly so the water runs into an empty Thames river beyond the barrier. This gives the city enough time before the tide recedes and the danger alleviated.


A Mersey barrage needs a barrage at Bidston to prevent water running across the Wirral from Moreton into the Mersey via Birkenhead Docks. This is easy as there is already a motorway embankment. If a new one needs to be built it can take a new Merseyrail line.

This foolishness of partially and fully filling docks will backfire on the city. The sooner the filled in docks are excavated back to full depths and those reduced in depth reinstated to full depth, the better for all in many, many ways.
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More on dock filling - Click here (http://www.saveliverpooldocks.co.uk)

[irishseashipping.com]

Whilst I agree with your sentiments of the folly of filling in / reducing the depth of water in the docks I don't think a barrage is a good idea, unless located upstream of the Pier Head area.

Do you realise the serious effect that could have on scheduled shipping services, in particular passenger services to Douglas / Dublin / Belfast and cruise ships?

If down stream of Pier Head an extra set of locks would be required which could add 20 to 30 minutes to any schedule.

John

[Waterways]

Whilst I agree with your sentiments of the folly of filling in / reducing the depth of water in the docks I don't think a barrage is a good idea, unless located upstream of the Pier Head area.

Do you realise the serious effect that could have on scheduled shipping services, in particular passenger services to Douglas / Dublin / Belfast and cruise ships?

If down stream of Pier Head an extra set of locks would be required which could add 20 to 30 minutes to any schedule.

John

John, ferry services can be berthed on the Liverpool Bay side of a New Brighton-Bootle barrage, coming and going at will. Maybe a small harbour wall type of arrangement. The cruise ships can be scheduled to enter a ship lock - not a great thing - at almost any stage of the tide as the barrage will be at the beginning of the Crosby Channel. Dredging of the river will be a rare event keeping the river nice and deep - great for leisure craft. Large tankers can enter only at high tide, as they do via a large barrage gate, not a lock - they just sail through. Or tankers berth at a pier on the Liverpool Bay side of the barrage. Seaforth Dock can have a lock directly into Liverpool Bay by-passing the locked in river.

A barrage ideally can have a rapid transit station for foot passengers on it, although foot passengers are not taken from 12 quays. The barrage can offer another river crossing for rapid-transit Merseyrail.

Before a barrage is built - if ever - the docks must be deepened and in-filled docks excavated to prevent the city flooding. Morpeth and Edgerton Docks at Birkenhead must be reconnected to the East Float to give more water holding acreage in case of flood conditions.

In cases of excessive high-tide flood emergencies, the docks are left to a minimum level at low tide and act as the overspill before the tide recedes - as does the Thames barrier.

Parts of the far north end docks have also been in-filled. The provision the reclaimed land provides can be provided from adjacent land. The city needs ALL docks excavated and deepened to save it from floods. To do so is cheap - OK maybe new designed lock gates that are controlled from a central point to allow water to enter in measures rather than lip over the river wall. Not to do so can result in catastrophe. The Pier Head has flooded a few times and water levels are rising.

The city has to do this ASAP

[pablo42]

Waterways, well said. couldn't agree more. Great pictures guys. Never ceased to be amazed. well done.

[Waterways]

I don't think a barrage is a good idea, unless located upstream of the Pier Head area.


John, a barrage upstream of the Pier Head will not protect the city from flood.

Otherwise we may have this:

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7773&d=1218894195

[scouse smurf]

John, a barrage upstream of the Pier Head will not protect the city from flood.

Otherwise we may have this:


Well, we don't care if London gets flooded :)

The only good reason for the barrier is if it stops the ships going down the manc ship canal and they start using our ports instead.

It might not seem like much, but I reckon part of the attraction of cruise liners coming here is travelling up the Mersey with the liver building coming into view and docking pretty much within a few minutes of the city centre.

Docking in Bootle wouldn't have the same appeal, the waterfront is not as nice plus it's alot further to travel to get into liverpool... Unless, of course, they put a tram line in ;)

[Waterways]

Well, we don't care if London gets flooded :)


Good sentiment, but that is what we will have if nothing is done, and the docks are a perfect already in place barrier, that can be fully effective if the docks are deepened and excavated - a cheap undertaking.



The only good reason for the barrier is if it stops the ships going down the manc ship canal and they start using our ports instead.


The "only" reason? It will:


Stop the Mersey estuary flooding,
Generate clean electricity, although that can be done better elsewhere, as the river levels would rise and fall.
Create a still water leisure boating area
Eliminate the expensive floating landing stage
Eliminate river lock gates - boats can sail the Mersey and in and out the dock water at will.
Create a rail river crossing
Create a leisure facility on the barrage
Etc


Few ships go further than Runcorn on the Manchester ship canal - about two a week. This is a much underused waterway, where companies can have their own berths on the canal, which is in effect a 36 mile long dock. There is talk of Port Warrington. Peel do not promote/sell this canal as they should. Ocean going vessels can sail 46 miles from the sea.



It might not seem like much, but I reckon part of the attraction of cruise liners coming here is travelling up the Mersey with the liver building coming into view and docking pretty much within a few minutes of the city centre.


A barrage will not stop that, no one said a cruise liner would dock in Bootle.

[pablo42]

Nice one Waterways. You certainly know what you're talking about.