Titanic - Was it the Olympic that sank?

[theninesisters]

I rarely watch TV these days, too many adverts, too many 'celebrities' and on the whole, repeats and waffle. However I was looking forward to a programme which was on last night (at 12am - for an hour and then the clocks went forward lol)

It was on the Titanic and a major conspiracy about whether it was actually the Titanic that sank.

Did anyone else see this? A short sum up:

The Olympic was damaged in a collision and was rendered useless by many, it has 'broken its back' in the collision and had to be plated up. The White Star Line knew they were on their knees so during the refit of the Olympic, they used one berthing dock in which they swapped it over with Titanic over many days. Both ships were made to be identical and a plan was formulated to sink the titanic (now the Olympic) at a supposed spot as a fradulent claim. This went horribly wrong when the ship founded on the iceberg and the Titanic (still the Olympic) went down with a massive loss of life.

There was some amazing 'for and against' points - maybe it was all a story, but a fradulent claim was something that the White Star Line did need!

[steveb]

I rarely watch TV these days, too many adverts, too many 'celebrities' and on the whole, repeats and waffle. However I was looking forward to a programme which was on last night (at 12am - for an hour and then the clocks went forward lol)

It was on the Titanic and a major conspiracy about whether it was actually the Titanic that sank.

Did anyone else see this? A short sum up:

The Olympic was damaged in a collision and was rendered useless by many, it has 'broken its back' in the collision and had to be plated up. The White Star Line knew they were on their knees so during the refit of the Olympic, they used one berthing dock in which they swapped it over with Titanic over many days. Both ships were made to be identical and a plan was formulated to sink the titanic (now the Olympic) at a supposed spot as a fradulent claim. This went horribly wrong when the ship founded on the iceberg and the Titanic (still the Olympic) went down with a massive loss of life.

There was some amazing 'for and against' points - maybe it was all a story, but a fradulent claim was something that the White Star Line did need!


Never saw it, but I think it is a load of rumours. It is 99.9% certainty
that the wreck at the bottom of the Atlantic is the RMS Titanic.
Maybe wrong but wasn't the Olympic converted to a hospital ship and
torpedoed by the Germans off the coast of Ireland

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Jona

Sounds like pure hokum to me. There are always going to be people who make sensational claims about sensational episodes in history. This sounds like yet another one. The story of the loss of the Titanic is dramatic and tragic enough without this.

Chris

[scouserdave]

LOL! This telly programme gets around. Must be a rerun:unibrow:

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forum/forum_comments/2563/

[theninesisters]

LOL! This telly programme gets around. Must be a rerun:unibrow:

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forum/forum_comments/2563/

That's just it - I watched thinking it was a load of rubbish until they hit on some points that couldn't be rationally explained. It was a good hour of 'both sides' and I could see both points of view to be honest. There was a chap who had written 3 books on the switch and to be honest, came up with some very unanswerable questions.

Even one of the experts said that most of the photo's that were put on postcards were the Olympic, such where the similarities of the ships.

The biggest point was explaining the exact damage of Olympic when it was rammed and brought out official documents of the repairs.


It's something I've never even thought of myself being a massive Titanic fan, you just wonder why these rumours surfaced and why.

[Ged]

It WAS the Titanic that sunk. It has be proven beyond doubt.

[theninesisters]

It WAS the Titanic that sunk. It has be proven beyond doubt.

I'm not saying it wasn't sir - I was just presenting the facts :)

I can see it from the other side though, the White Star Line needed money - and fast. And this would have been a cracking insurance scam.

With all things, there are people that believe and there are people that are on the fence. It never occured to me until I saw this program that it could ever be anything else - I suppose I'm going through all my old Titanic books again now with open eyes.

[SteH]

It WAS the Titanic that sunk. It has be proven beyond doubt.

I remember hearing about this conspiracy, but that when they found the wreck of the Titanic the ships equivalent of a car chassis number proved that it couldnt have been the Olympic at the bottom of the ocean.

[theninesisters]

I remember hearing about this conspiracy, but that when they found the wreck of the Titanic the ships equivalent of a car chassis number proved that it couldnt have been the Olympic at the bottom of the ocean.

They explored this one too - it was said that Olympic's propeller had been damaged and when Titanic was being built, they took Titanic's one and borrowed it - this was numbered 401 - and 401 was found at the bottom of the ocean. This appears to be fact.

I'm sure most of us on here can only go by what we have heard, myself included, but there are people putting up genuine questions to certain area's.

[snappel]

Sounds almost as circumstantial and cobbled together as that ridiculous 9/11 video...

[krz8_zombie]

Sounds almost as circumstantial and cobbled together as that ridiculous 9/11 video...

And the reports that the USA faked landing on the moon.
There was a good show on TV about 18 months ago pointing out all the flaws in the moon landing conspiracy arguments, but even when presented with scientific evidence the loons still believed they were right.

People will always go for stuff like this. Look at the toss on TV like 'Most Haunted'


:020:

[Gnomie]

They proved Titanic was not Olympic by the designs, Titanic had different portholes and these can clearly be seen on the wreck on the bed of the atlantic.

[Ged]

A different shaped bridge too.

[Gnomie]

Yes Ged.

While Titanic and Olympic were similar in many ways, there were some crucial differences owing to changes made after her maiden voyage. These changes, such as the enclosed promenade, are easy to spot on the wreck.

It was Titanic that sank, its just a famous ship that story tellers cling too.

[Gnomie]

[QUOTE=Jona76;47091]They explored this one too - it was said that Olympic's propeller had been damaged and when Titanic was being built, they took Titanic's one and borrowed it - this was numbered 401 - and 401 was found at the bottom of the ocean. This appears to be fact.

QUOTE]


Work on Titanic was held up to allow for repairs to Olympic. and Olympic did recieve Titanics propeller as one of her blades had been damaged during the collision with The Hawke.

[Gnomie]

Never saw it, but I think it is a load of rumours. It is 99.9% certainty
that the wreck at the bottom of the Atlantic is the RMS Titanic.
Maybe wrong but wasn't the Olympic converted to a hospital ship and
torpedoed by the Germans off the coast of Ireland


Olympic was scrapped in 1935. Titanics other sister ship Britannic was turned into a hospital ship, The Britannic sank in the Kea Channel, 21 nov 1916.

Lusitania was sunk off the coast of Ireland.

[steveb]

Olympic was scrapped in 1935. Titanics other sister ship Britannic was turned into a hospital ship, The Britannic sank in the Kea Channel, 21 nov 1916.

Lusitania was sunk off the coast of Ireland.

Thanks for the info, appreciated

[Gnomie]

Some info her on Olympic and Britannic.

http://www.euronet.nl/users/keesree/sisters.htm


:)

[Ged]

Also bearing in mind you'd have to have kept a good few thousand Irish dock workers quiet as well. There's a forum just concentrating on this subject I posted on a few times last year when the documentary was shown again. When you visit that forum, it leaves you in no doubt, one of the conspirators is lost for words when confronted with evidence that it is the Titanic as well on the documentary.

[snappel]

People will always go for stuff like this. Look at the toss on TV like 'Most Haunted'It's what happens when people stray from the scientific method... science experiments attempt to disprove the theory and in doing so conclude whether or not it is correct, whilst conspiracy theorists conveniently find bits of information that support their claim but forget everything else.

9/11 was a classic example. Conspiracy theorists often present a range of alternative explanations for various events during the day. Quite often the explanations from the same source contradict each other, thus showing that both cannot be fact. In the video that I saw, eye witnesses (who of course were not disorientated in any way) reported 'explosions' from near the base of the tower*, and then the video showed examples of controlled demolition. The big problem I had was that explosions at the bottom wouldn't cause the collapse to initiate at the impact zone. Planted explosives would have to have been placed near the impact zone for this (which was also argued of course, since the whole video was one big orgy of straw-clutching - if this was the case, why would there be more explosives near the base?).

The collapse of the WTC towers were fundamentally different to controlled demolition. True, both fell in a uniform direction at a given speed, but that's where the similarity ends for me. But hey, let's not go there...

My point is this. Conspiracy theories are good fun to read, and it's always food for thought. It's good to 'think outside the box' and not just take things as they're fed by the press (hence why I chose to watch the 9/11 vid). But sometimes it's good to look at all the facts available, and work out for ourselves what is the most likely explanation as we see it. Too often people seem to subscribe wholly to a conspiracy theory and lap up everything they're fed. In effect they're brainwashed, and convenienty forget or 'don't see' things that counter the theory. Derren Brown wrote some good stuff about this which is worth reading, and as he says a lot of the time it's just group psychology.

Personally though I'm not that bothered. Olympic or Titanic, Moon Landing or not, worrying about these kinds of things isn't really going to change anything. But yes, interesting to read all the same, just worth keeping an open mind when doing so. One of the best things I read though was an article suggesting conspiracy theories were made up by powerful figures and governments to divert attention from the real issues. Good thinking, and an interesting read, and it shows that there isn't really a limit to where this kind of speculation can go...

*Falling lifts and debris, cables, heating ducts, rubble, bodies, bits of aircraft... all possibilities for the 'explosions'

[snoochie boochie]

I watched a film about the tragedy which seemed to focus on Leonardo DiCaprio getting his leg over, which I found a little bit inappropriate considering such a mass of life lost.
Sick.

[snappel]

Inappropriate indeed. He wasn't even alive in 1912...

[Howie]

Another chapter of Titanic legend unfolds
Apr 14 2007
by Deborah James, Liverpool Daily Post

A NEW insight into a legend of Liverpool’s maritime history is available from today as the original passenger list of the Titanic goes online.

Although other lists have been made public, this is the first time the original 34-page document has been made accessible to view directly on the internet.

Currently housed in separate boxes and kept under lock and key at the National Archives in Kew, the list could previously only be viewed under strict supervision.

The release of the Titanic’s boarding log is part of the archive’s new online resource of thousands of passenger details from 1910 - 1919.

The flagship of Liverpool’s White Star Line hit an iceberg exactly 95 years ago on April 14, 1912, and sank on April 15. Liverpool’s Maritime Museum’s special exhibition: Titanic, Lusitania and the Forgotten Empress outlines the importance of these ships to Liverpool.

Story continues (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpooldailypost/news/regionalnews/tm_headline=another-chapter-of-titanic-legend-unfolds%26method=full%26objectid=18902255%26siteid =50061-name_page.html#story_continue)...

[Howie]

Representatives of the Port of Liverpool attend a service to remember victims of the RMS Titanic sinking.

More (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/6557633.stm)...

[PhilipG]

I watched a film about the tragedy which seemed to focus on Leonardo DiCaprio getting his leg over, which I found a little bit inappropriate considering such a mass of life lost.
Sick.

The British film "A Night to Remember" (1958) is still the definitive filmed version of the Titanic tragedy.

[Cadfael]

I'm selling my 8 DVD's of the Titanic Documentary. Watched em only once and mint condition.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180148933923&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=008

[SteH]

There's an interesting programme on Sky 3 now about this conspiracy which throws up some good questions -

why did the Titanic and Olympic both spend a week together in dry dock?
Why did so many boilermen from Belfast resign before the first voyage, supposedly feeling the engines were not new?
Why did the California have next to no passengers on it and just happen to be passing the Titianic at the time it hit the iceberg?
Why did the portholes of the Olympic get changed to match those of the Titanic.

It makes you wonder.

[snappel]

Well SteH, you may be right. This recently produced video provides new evidence that supports the conspiracy theory.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI

[Cadfael]

Spare a thought today for the lost souls from the Titanic on this very day, 96 years ago. :hug:

[Ged]

Go onto Encyclopedia Titanica forum to get these questions answered.

[taffy]

Spare a thought today for the lost souls from the Titanic on this very day, 96 years ago. :hug:

Thanks for that. One of my relatives went down with the Titanic.

[urban_explorer_2008]

i have seen this programme to and i think it may be true and i am quite well read on the titanic and am interested in everything about it and certain things the programme mentioned ring true

[Waterways]

i have seen this programme to and i think it may be true and i am quite well read on the titanic and am interested in everything about it and certain things the programme mentioned ring true

I saw a film on TV a number of years back and it was all disproven. Although swapping ships to claim on insurance was a common trick in those days. But doing it with high profile ships like them? And no one noticed? Nah!

[Ged]

And the Olympic went on to sail a route for years afterwards.

[Waterways]

And the Olympic went on to sail a route for years afterwards.

It was only few years older than the Titanic.

The White Star Olympic class of ships were poorly designed - still based on 1800s styles of hulls. The Cunard liners, like Mauritania, were more advanced designs and older. If the Mauritania had seen the iceberg it would have avoided it. The Titanic's rudder was too small for the ship, so could not steer the ship away fast enough.

[Ged]

What i'm getting at is, what ship sailed that route then if it was the Olympic down there - the Titanic- don't think so.

[julieoapw]

Lots of interesting stuff on Titanic here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/titanic/