Should Liverpool build 'L.A.' type Skyscrapers?

[Tockeyhead]

I know a few buildings by the pier head are under development but i was thinking we should have 'Los Angeles' type Skyscrapers, Penthouses etc becouse not only it will make the city a nicer looking place but will also save landspace.

They could also have chopper pads on the roof's:D

[Max]

Asian Sky Scrapers look well better.

L.A = overated.

[Kev]

Checkout this thread (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2071&page=5)

[AK1]

Not L.A. style skyscrapers! L.A. skyscrapers are nothing special, just tall for the sake of being tall with no architectural merit. Liverpool shouldn't have skyscrapers like anywhere else, they need to be our own style and not just a copy of other cities.

[Tockeyhead]

Ok not copies of thiers but maybe similar.

Australia/New Zealand have some nice ones.

[AK1]

London has some unique skyscrapers like the gherkin, and has even more interesting ones either under construction or in the planning process. See http://skyscrapernews.com for more details.

[pablo42]

Any regeneration in the city has got to be welcomed. Pity about the out lying areas though. Some estates are worse than Bahgdad.

[Max]

Some estates are worse than Bahgdad.

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:So true haha.

WOuldn't agree with welcoming anything though, that seems what the council an such have done already and some of them are boring looking or placed in the wrong place. Theres no art in them either and some world class views are being ruined like the Mann island garbage.

Plus the council only care about the city centre.

[hmtmaj]

Plus the council only care about the city centre.

Spot on Max.



I don't think I'd like to live in a highrise apartment, scared of heights :shock:

[Waterways]

The problem is English Heritage cutting down buildings to stumps which look cheap and tatty. If they build high they maximise their investments and the quaity rises.

The centre should be paramount. A pity the tarsnport network is poorly thought out. Merseyrail can make a Circle Line enhancing the centre and deprived inner-city districts. That would real push the city upwards.

Many out of town estates are like because of the inhabitants. Money should not be squandered on these places over real progress in the centre. The city still needs to attract a larger middle class to push it forward.

[hmtmaj]

Quote:
"Many out of town estates are like because of the inhabitants. Money should not be squandered on these places over real progress in the centre. The city still needs to attract a larger middle class to push it forward."



These Inhabitants actually pay their rates like any other inhabitant of this city so why are they not entitled to see the benefits ?

When COC came around I wondered when ANY of the money being invested would be spread around OR, WHEN they would be putting events on in the suburbs, but hey, what the hell, we pay our taxes for the Centre to get the benefit, so why should we care if they get fatter.

AND, on a lot of these "Estates" are genuine law abiding citizens who feel trapped and let down, so keep your feeling of not "squandering" any money on them, they may all move out of the city and then where would you be ?
And I say CITY because that's what Liverpool is, NOT a town centre.

Rant over, back onto the thread, I'm not in favour of too many tall buildings as it just feels too congested for me, only my opinion mind.
Martin

[Waterways]

Quote:
"Many out of town estates are like because of the inhabitants. Money should not be squandered on these places over real progress in the centre. The city still needs to attract a larger middle class to push it forward."

These Inhabitants actually pay their rates like any other inhabitant of this city so why are they not entitled to see the benefits ?


No one is saying deprive them of benefits, just not pour money down the drain because they wrecked their own communities. I never see middle class communities wrecked.

If the city is to propel itself forward the centre, dock waters and Merseyrail transport is where full focus should be. The rest will benefit when the city picks up. Pouring good money after bad is rather silly. The city has to turn from being large sink estate as that was the way it was going.

[Paddy]

Regeneration has a psychology look around you. I don?t mean just Liverpool. Take Bristol or Cardiff as examples. These regeneration projects are similar as they are the regeneration of old waterfront quays and warehouses. Do you ever feel a slight alienation from these projects that change your landscape? High rise buildings for whom? Sometimes I feel alienation is not just an experience of the relationship you have with what you produce, it is something that you experience in the immediate environment that you live in. Plans proposals and wow there it is right in your face but you have nothing really to do with it. It might make a nice picture on the living room wall but your relationship ends there. Cardiff has large marines that once were docks neat little sailing vessels are moored all around. All ship shape and Bristol fashion there too. However we who slope about the streets ride on busses and stroll along the new walk ways where do we come into the picture ? And who are these privileged folk who dwell in these expensive apartments? So tall buildings are okay if they mean something to you. If not you just live under their shadow. I once stood on Whitechapel Road down the East End from there you can see all the gleaming towers of the city of London. Well then you wonder why some people go bad. Imagine being born and growing up looking at wealth you yourself can never be part of? Okay a few coke sniffing wise guys might come good and get penthouses but most of us just look on and wonder.
Progress is great and I do want to see a new Liverpool rise as a modern sea port City. Yet sometimes I think some of the old ideas that were around in the sixties and seventies should be put forward. A fun park on the waterfront. Skate boarding parks and cycle tracks. That alleviates the problem of alienation. Okay you have a skin full down town and your mates leave you at the bus stop. Suddenly you experience a shadow and the night is darker than normal. Then you realize it is all the new buildings that sprung up around the place you once thought of as home. You feel a slight sadness as so much has changed around you yet you haven?t really been part of it. Billy went to John?s house on Saturday morning to ask him if he fancied a walk down to the all weather pitch as his lad was playing in a semi final. ?Won?t be a minute says John putting on his trackie top?. On the way to the all weather John saw his Nephew in the skate board park ?watch this Uncle John cried his Nephew as he twisted and turned on his skate board?. ?Will you be in on the abseiling asked Billy as they approached the all weather ? you know twenty of us are doing the main tower and then there?s a disco in the boys club at the top ?Well you know what I mean it is always nice to be part of what is going on around you.

[petromax]

Regeneration has a psychology look around you...Well you know what I mean it is always nice to be part of what is going on around you.

Building tall makes a statement about progress and ambition but is not enough to make a city. What happens at street level; the life and buzz of the city ie. the people, make the place. We need the life of the city that you describe as well as grand statements of high rise ambition.

Oh and by the way...


The problem is English Heritage cutting down buildings to stumps which look cheap and tatty. If they build high they maximise their investments...

...building tall costs more. The greater the number of floors, the lower the ratio of useful space to support space (lifts etc) and hence the greater the cost of useable space per square metre. Hence the financial return per square metre is actually lower, the higher you go.

This is only partly compensated for in 'prestige value' in a competitive market. In a slow market; low, fat buildings will maximise return on investment for any given area of building.

[atmosferik]

The council planners of Liverpool and Merseyside have got it right so far as far as I'm concerned.

If you look from across the water, you'll notice that the high rise buildings in Liverpool are all to the left - in the 'Business' area. There is still plenty of space in this area for further development (Such as Vauxhall), which is something which in future years will be bought up and regenerated. In this area, it wouldn't be surprising to see more 40 story + 'Skyscrapers' being built. Most planning permissions for such buildings generally fall to the North (Left) and South (Far right) of the city skyline (So far un-tapped). In the main hub of Liverpool, the areas where the people of Liverpool and toursits reside, you'll notice the regeneration of the older Edwardian buildings. This is generally lower level buildings which maintain the historical values of our city.

As a photographer I have been asked to undertake many photography assignments, taking images of Liverpool and Merseyside from across the water. In doing this, I have noticed how the city planners have envisioned Liverpool not only from a 'Perfect' photograph perspective, but also for those living and working within our community. When driving down the 'Strand', you'll notice high rise buildings everywhere. But driving passed these, you'll notice historical buildings, fading into low rise modern buildings such as the Echo Arena.

Buildings built 30 or 40 years ago, such as the 'Tower restaurant', now the 'City Tower', compliment our skyline and this slight miss mash of buildings only help in making our skyline individual and unique.... In a good way.

I was always a great advocate of the 'Fourth Grace' - the brain like building that never happened. This building would have given our skyline a major identity and a good one at that... Individual to us and something that would have given our skyline an almost 'World class' perspective to the world. As far as I'm concerned it was an opportunity missed.

Your thoughts?!

Where memories are made http://www.atmosferik.com

[az_gila]

The Los Angeles skyscrapers in general are bland, but one of the original ones, the multi-cylinder Bonaventure hotel is quite different -

15978

[kevin]

Can't believe the comments made by our socialist champion in post 10. Perhaps a wall should be built around the city centre to keep the riff-raff out?
They could have passports to allow them in for the menial jobs, or to put money in the shops' tills, but have to be out again by nightfall.
The council would be allowed to go out and raid the suburbs to collect taxes, a la Sherrif of Nottingham.
I think I'm onto something here.

[scouse smurf]

Kevin, would u be allowed back in ?

I know I wouldn't coz me accent ain't strong enough :)

[Waterways]

Can't believe the comments made by our socialist champion in post 10.


You are a confused person. I am anti-Tory. Your conditioning can't figure that out.



Perhaps a wall should be built around the city centre to keep the riff-raff out?


Interesting.



They could have passports to allow them in for the menial jobs, or to put money in the shops' tills, but have to be out again by nightfall.
The council would be allowed to go out and raid the suburbs to collect taxes, a la Sherrif of Nottingham.
I think I'm onto something here.

You are.

Liverpool to succeed needs to attract the middle classes back into the city centre and the surrounding inner-city - where they used to be. A largely one class city is not going to succeed. Sit around the cafes of Turin, an industrial city, and then Liverpool. There is a massive contrast.

You do not attact the middle class with tiny jerry-built studio flats. You do it be creating a water based city using the legacy of the docks, building spacious apartments.

[Waterways]

The council planners of Liverpool and Merseyside have got it right so far as far as I'm concerned.


They have only half a clue. Little direction. Click on the link in my sig. Look at the site. Look at the rejection of the world-class Brunswick Quay Tower, which would have been built before the Crash of 2008.



As a photographer I have been asked to undertake many photography assignments, taking images of Liverpool and Merseyside from across the water.

That is the problem. The city is designed to look well from Birkenhead. Look at the ministers rejection of the Brusnwick Quay Tower. They thought it may block the view of the cathedral from Rock Ferry. Ridiculous indeed. In Liverpool they not care about Rock Ferry. And the view from Liverrpool to the Wirral is appalling. I don't see them spending to improve our view.



I was always a great advocate of the 'Fourth Grace' - the brain like building that never happened. This building would have given our skyline a major identity and a good one at that... Individual to us and something that would have given our skyline an almost 'World class' perspective to the world. As far as I'm concerned it was an opportunity missed.


I agree. As long as all at street level it is at a human and attractive scale. Miami looks magnificent at night and when on the plane coming in at night the view is amazing. At street level, it is appalling.

I want a human scale Amsterdam around the Dock waters. OK some high rises strategically placed. No abominations like the Arena shed nonsence any more. No multi-floor cars parks should be anywhere near the dock quays.

[kevin]

Smurphy - under those conditions I wouldn't want to be allowed back in.


Kevin, would u be allowed back in ?

I know I wouldn't coz me accent ain't strong enough :)

[kevin]

We need the car parks, like them or not, because so many people access the area by car.
Perhaps we should have a Metro system, then we wouldn't need the car parks?l
;-)
Yours faithfully,
Confused of Coseley.

[Rhoobarb]

We need the car parks, like them or not, because so many people access the area by car.
Perhaps we should have a Metro system, then we wouldn't need the car parks?l
;-)
Yours faithfully,
Confused of Coseley.

Then we could get a senior member of the council to sell them for us so they could build more middle class housing.

Brunswick tower would have been hideous and out of place. Nothing else round there like it. Plus it would have overlooked the naval base, would have thought that would be a big no no.

[Spike]

No more Tower Blocks. BOO TO THEM.

I would knock Lego Land down and start again.

[Spike]

Many out of town estates are like because of the inhabitants. Money should not be squandered on these places over real progress in the centre. The city still needs to attract a larger middle class to push it forward.

That is bad, very bad.:PDT_Xtremez_12:

Sod the poorer people and get the snobs in the city. You sure you aint no Tory?

Shameful Comments. You should try going onto some of these estates. You may be shocked to find many down to earth, salt of the earth people, cracking people, Scousers. Unlike some of the rip off snobs you want in our city.

I am disgusted by your remarks.

[Max]

For a major city, we don't get this city treated like one! The Mersey for all it's history lacks enough activity on the river as one example. The Wirral has two ferry ports while we only have one and most of the time, theres hardly any ferries active on the river Mersey! Like most world cities, we don't have a bridge going across to the Wirral end too yet Runcorn and Widnes have one and are getting another one on their end!

I agree with Waterways on the Wirral end, not much to look

Most major modern cities have had skyscrapers for years and we only had two at most if you count the Anglican since it stands out in the skyline before 2003! Seems like London is only sky scraper like place in the UK with lots of them too! I dunno, I just love heights so I want some more! Not LA type ones though, LA is a hole! More something like the Canadian or Australian cities.

You think the city would of been kept nice since we get the Beatle's stuff bringing in loads of tourists!

Money does need to be thrown into the estates and inner/outer city areas but not recklessly. He is right about estates going horrible because of some inhabitants, I don't think he's insulting people who live in estates, it's obviously that people who live in them(not all) have recked them. Students around here because Landlords who aren't restricted to who they rent to give them to naive childish students who usually mess up the place when drunk and because they go recklessly wild because they finally live away from their parents!

[Max]

We need the car parks, like them or not, because so many people access the area by car.
Perhaps we should have a Metro system, then we wouldn't need the car parks?l
;-)
Yours faithfully,
Confused of Coseley.

A more improved metro or train system would be godly, Merseytravels trains are terrible and are more concerned with upping the prices than improving efficientcy.

[Waterways]

We need the car parks, like them or not, because so many people access the area by car.
Perhaps we should have a Metro system, then we wouldn't need the car parks?l
;-)
Yours faithfully,
Confused of Coseley.

There is no need for car parks on quays or in the docks estate at all. It is a waste of land around the waters. The Merseyrail Metro can access the docks as per the London Docklands Light-Railway. The DLR is mainly elevated like the Overhead Railway. We should copy London and recreate our history.

[Waterways]

A more improved metro or train system would be godly, Merseytravels trains are terrible and are more concerned with upping the prices than improving efficientcy.

Look at:
Click Here (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Merseyrail-Extensions.html)

[Waterways]

That is bad, very bad.:PDT_Xtremez_12:

Sod the poorer people and get the snobs in the city. You sure you aint no Tory?


100% anti-Tory. When people wreck their own environment we should not pour money into a bottomless pit, as they continually keep doing it. We need to put money into real progress and economic growth projects. That eventually will benefit those innocent people on the estates. They may eventually get the money to leave with improved economic growth, then the vandalized estates will need demolishing and re-built in part or whole.

The Lodge Lane area is a bottomless pit for public funds. A new underground Merseyrail station would do wonders for the area attracting economic growth. The same if the mothballed Outer Loop is on Merseyrail serving some outer suburbs with poor images.

[Waterways]

Then we could get a senior member of the council to sell them for us so they could build more middle class housing.

Brunswick tower would have been hideous and out of place. Nothing else round there like it. Plus it would have overlooked the naval base, would have thought that would be a big no no.

The naval base is just an office. You are right, the car parks should be sold. Yes we need more quality housing around the waters with mixed leisure facilities, not working class tenements. The city is short of decent, attractive, spacious, quality accommodation in the city and docks.

The Brunswick Quay Tower was world-class. It would have attracted investment around it. The company, a local company the Matlan people, had plans to extend the project with rumours of excavating all or parts of Toxteth Dock.

[IllmaticScouser]

They shouldnt build any sky scrapers they all ready made a mess of the waterfront seen the kip of those buildings me 4 year old cousin could have designed them

[ChrisGeorge]

What's the point if everywhere in the world begins to look like everywhere else? I really hope Liverpool does not get that homogenized look. The city deserves better.

Chris

[Waterways]

They shouldnt build any sky scrapers they all ready made a mess of the waterfront seen the kip of those buildings me 4 year old cousin could have designed them

If you want a bland cityscape then go to Nottingham. Beetham West is superb. The talls have made the waterfront - before them the waterfront was bland. The Brunswick Quay Tower would have been brilliant: The city needs height!!!! It needs high density, vibrant districts.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/BrunswickQuays-3.jpg

What would New York be without the skyscrapers?

[Spike]

They shouldnt build any sky scrapers they all ready made a mess of the waterfront seen the kip of those buildings me 4 year old cousin could have designed them

Agree. Its turning into a joke.

[Spike]

What's the point if everywhere in the world begins to look like everywhere else? I really hope Liverpool does not get that homogenized look. The city deserves better.

Chris

Im with you Chris. Sadly its already looking silly now.

[IllmaticScouser]

If you want a bland cityscape then go to Nottingham. Beetham West is superb. The talls have made the waterfront - before them the waterfront was bland. The Brunswick Quay Tower would have been brilliant: The city needs height!!!! It needs high density, vibrant districts.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/BrunswickQuays-3.jpg

What would New York be without the skyscrapers?

That looks like somethin from Star Trek... how those architects are makin money i dont know look at the state of the new buildings on Liverpools waterfront i can imagine the blueprints to look like a little kids scribble they ruin the true architecture of the Liver Buildings, The Cunard Buildings and the likes

The skyscrapers in New York are horrible there is far better architecture to look at in New York e.g. The Post office and the libarary

[Spike]

Well Said:handclap:

[lindylou]

I agree with Waterways. The more kick ass buildings the better ! Why shouldn't we have some height and stunning architecture !??.
We deserve it, we deserve to be a fantastic looking city - because we ARE a fantastic city.
I love what has already been done. I am proud to show off photos of our new look waterfront - to people who have been away from Liverpool for a long time .. I can't wait for them to see what we have now and how fantastic we look. I for one am made up :handclap:

Why would anyone not want this for our city ? http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/rubinda/avatars/e20301.gif

[lindylou]

If you want a bland cityscape then go to Nottingham. Beetham West is superb. The talls have made the waterfront - before them the waterfront was bland. The Brunswick Quay Tower would have been brilliant: The city needs height!!!! It needs high density, vibrant districts.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/BrunswickQuays-3.jpg



I like this very much.

Also, we should have had the Cloud - but perhaps in a different location to the original plan (as has been suggested before).

[Max]

I love heights so much so of course I want the skyscrapers!

There are messes like the Echo building and Unity but thats what dynamite is for!

[Spike]

Why would anyone not want this for our city ? http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/rubinda/avatars/e20301.gif

Because it looks shocking. Just coz somebody likes it dont mean we all do. I think it looks terrible.

[lindylou]

I find it really exciting the way our waterfront is developing. It's fab and looks fantastic lit up at night. It's exciting to be down there seeing it close up. I hope all the exciting new stuff continues. Our youngsters are seeing a whole new era in our city emerging. I tell my son that the younger generation are seeing a new phase and future in Liverpool.

[Spike]

I dont like it. I go there and think " Urrrrrrrrgh " The 3 graces are being ruined by it all.

I shall tell my son I am sorry for letting them turn our city in Lego Land. Its gone beyond a Joke now.

What next? A Giant Wigwam?

[lindylou]

:)

[lindylou]

The three graces will always be beautiful and stunning. I don't think anything will take the limelight away from them. They still shine out :nod: I'll still love them the best :)

[Spike]

I want the Wigwam now.

[Waterways]

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9374/300pxliverpoolcommercia.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/300pxliverpoolcommercia.jpg/)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n128/peteratrossmere/Pier%20Head%20and%20Albert%20Dock/IMG_0068.jpg

Fantastic. Re-clad the Sandcastle and what a collection!!!! Fantastic

We need more height!!!!!

[Spike]

Ugly as sin that lot is.

Forget our history and build glass everywhere? yeah great idea:PDT_Xtremez_12:

[Waterways]

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9374/300pxliverpoolcommercia.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/300pxliverpoolcommercia.jpg/)

The buildings here are all very different to each other including the church. Re-clad the Sandcastle and what a collection it will be. The Sandcastle has some wonderful shapes to it. It looks different from every angle you view it. Take away the highway (Dock Rd) and make it a narrow service road with wide pavements, put shops, cafes, etc, on the ground floor of the Atlantic Tower Hotel and the Sandcastle and this place will be very appealing.

...and the attractive King Edward's Tower is yet to be built here, which adds even more value.

Draw life into the dock areas.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6375/crop1p.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/crop1p.jpg/)

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/2455NewKingEdwardTowerPlansSurface_pic1.jpg
The proposed superb King Edward Tower

The new King Edward Tower, which has a wonderful unique shape and colouring will enhance the docks/waterfront even more.

Still a lot of space to put unique and tall buildings.

[lindylou]

I think it looks great !

[Waterways]

Forget our history and build glass everywhere?

Our history is one of innovation. Liverpool was made into a great city because it was unafraid to experiment, modernise and advance. The number of firsts in the city is phenomenal. The world's first


Steel framed glass curtain walled building
Air conditioned building
Passenger railway
Commercial enclosed dock
Electric elevated railway
Large scale ferro concrete building
Iron framed buildings (churches)
Interconnected enclosed dock system
First radio broadcasts
etc

If there is no change the city declines.

[Spike]

Looks stupid. Have they no better ideas?

[Max]

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9374/300pxliverpoolcommercia.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/300pxliverpoolcommercia.jpg/)

The buildings here are all very different to each other including the church. Re-clad the Sandcastle and what a collection it will be. The Sandcastle has some wonderful shapes to it. It looks different from every angle you view it. Take away the highway (Dock Rd) and make it a narrow service road with wide pavements, put shops, cafes, etc, on the ground floor of the Atlantic Tower Hotel and the Sandcastle and this place will be very appealing.

...and the attractive King Edward's Tower is yet to be built here, which even more value.

Draw the life into the docks areas.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6375/crop1p.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/crop1p.jpg/)

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/2455NewKingEdwardTowerPlansSurface_pic1.jpg
The proposed superb King Edward Tower

The new King Edward Tower, which has a wonderful unique shape and colouring will enhance the docks/waterfront even more.

Still a lot of space to put unique and tall buildings.


Needs a better design, looks like a pc tower!

[Max]

http://sites.google.com/site/nsalosangeles/_/rsrc/1241579002270/Home/Los_Angeles_Skyline_In_Winter.jpg

LA Skyline, would any of these suit Liverpool?

[Waterways]

http://sites.google.com/site/nsalosangeles/_/rsrc/1241579002270/Home/Los_Angeles_Skyline_In_Winter.jpg

LA Skyline, would any of these suit Liverpool?

I a can think of a few.

[The Gardens]

I have just arrived back from a day visit to London, in an office overlooking the 'Gurkin'. That has a love/hate reaction, but at least it is instantly recognisable. I'm all for innovation, but it has to be unique and not just another skyscapper that when looked at in isolation could be from any city in the world.

[Waterways]

I have just arrived back from a day visit to London, in an office overlooking the 'Gurkin'. That has a love/hate reaction, but at least it is instantly recognisable. I'm all for innovation, but it has to be unique and not just another skyscapper that when looked at in isolation could be from any city in the world.

The waterfront pretty well has that except for Beetham 1. We could have had the Brunswick Quay Tower, which again is distinctive. The new King Edward Tower is again distinctive. The Gurkin is superb. A highly distinctive superb looking building.

http://roadsofstone.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/30-st-mary-axe-gherkin-london.jpg
The Gherkin

We need something like this:
http://www.tallestskyscrapers.info/images/shard-of-glass-london.jpg

[lindylou]

I have just arrived back from a day visit to London, in an office overlooking the 'Gurkin'. That has a love/hate reaction, but at least it is instantly recognisable. I'm all for innovation, but it has to be unique and not just another skyscapper that when looked at in isolation could be from any city in the world.

That's why we should have had the Cloud.

I'm pretty much pleased with what we have got and what we will be getting. The Cloud would have been good. I'm still not quite in love with the new museum building. It's the shape I'm not keen on. I said a long time ago when we were first discussing it that it looks more like a multi cinema complex to me. But I wouldn't dismiss it and do try to be optimistic. I always look for the best things about it and try to see it's attributes.

I just love all the high glass buildings though.

I love modernism as much as I love old.

[Spike]

I hate glass, its ugly.

[IllmaticScouser]

whatever happened to good architecture

[Waterways]

whatever happened to good architecture

Open your eyes. Beetham West. the stainless Alexandra Tower, The Wedges, Unity 1 and 2, the new Museum. Even the unique Capital Building, which needs a colourful re-clad to become world-renowned. In London the Ghurkin, etc

[Waterways]

I hate glass, its ugly.

I love it. Liverpool built the world first metal framed glass curtain walled building - 1864. It is of the city - it is ours.

[Spike]

Its still ugly.

We need better buildings than this rubbish that is going up.

[Spike]

whatever happened to good architecture

I agree mate. Some real shockers getting built now, pig ugly.

[Max]

I like Beetham West. Don't like the sandbox, the Echo or the Unity though.

[wsteve55]

I think the mix of old,and new, look great! Many people from outside the city,that I've met on my travels,think so too! Some "ex-pat's" are sad that we've lost buildings like the sailors home,etc,but think the city appears more dynamic, with the new architecture! I must admit,when the "Cloud" was first suggested,I was horrified,but gave the idea some thought! I considered that it was, the 21st century,and also that other "classic" buildings like the "Liver" building,were criticised,in their time,and decided that if you're going to do it,go for it,....then it was scrapped!

[lindylou]

That's what I like about our new buildings - they make Liverpool dynamic as you say.

The new museum I won't judge too much yet until I've been inside to see it. I have a feeling it will be fab inside and the views overlooking the river and waterfront will be great.

The black buildings are going to be real smart too. I like the wedge looking like a huge liner.

[Spike]

I dont think it looks Dynamic? Pig Ugly Yes

[Waterways]

That's what I like about our new buildings - they make Liverpool dynamic as you say.


Spot on the pair of you. Outsiders are impressed. The Shanghai Tower, if and when built at Central Docks, should really add some height and quality. We need a big slam them type of building.The tallest in Europe. One which is world renowned.

[lindylou]

I dont think it looks Dynamic? Pig Ugly Yes

Spike, they're not that bad !! :eek: :smirk:

I think something like St Johns precinct is ugly.

[Waterways]

I think something like St Johns precinct is ugly.

Without doubt.

[Spike]

We need a bomb to blow up a few of those ugly buildings that ruin the skyline.

[wsteve55]

Spike, they're not that bad !! :eek: :smirk:

I think something like St Johns precinct is ugly.

Or the "Royal"hospital!!!

[Spike]

Spike, they're not that bad !! :eek: :smirk:

I think something like St Johns precinct is ugly.

St Johns is ugly I agree, So is the Royal.

I dont see how cramming the waterfront with silly looking towers is making it look better? The Cathedrals are in danger of being blocked. Heading into town the views of the River are already restricted by these silly looking buildings that look like the Transformer toys the kids have.

They are building way to much and are blocking some great views. The fantastic view from the Albert Dock across to the three grace's is now blocked by a lump of rubbish161471614816149 It is shameful.

[Waterways]

Or the "Royal"hospital!!!

That is to be replaced.

[Waterways]

I dont see how cramming the waterfront with silly looking towers is making it look better? The Cathedrals are in danger of being blocked.


They are not. Liverpool is far from NY. There is only one modern building that could be said to be tall at the waterfront.

The city needs more and more more height to get the density up, to get the centre more vibrant. Then work out into the inner-city districts. Merseyrail will need extending with tunnels recommissioned to encourage investment - as they did in London's Docklands. The elevated Light-Railway was built first to encourage investment. I doubt Merseyrail will be extended with this bunch of amateurs running the economy.

[Spike]

Not in my book. Its an eyesore now. I dont want any more of this rubbish.

[Waterways]

Not in my book. Its an eyesore now. I dont want any more of this rubbish.

Have you tried living in Nottingham? That should do you.

[lindylou]

St Johns is ugly I agree, So is the Royal.

I dont see how cramming the waterfront with silly looking towers is making it look better? The Cathedrals are in danger of being blocked. Heading into town the views of the River are already restricted by these silly looking buildings that look like the Transformer toys the kids have.

They are building way to much and are blocking some great views. The fantastic view from the Albert Dock across to the three grace's is now blocked by a lump of rubbish161471614816149 It is shameful.

Of course I love those views, and our gorgeous old buildings are beautiful and make you feel all cosy and at home :hug: I love them and never get tired of seeing them.

.. but the vibrancy of the new buildings are exciting. I like 'bling' as much as I like old.
You can have both. I love old Victorian houses (I live in one), but I love snazzy new apartments too. it's nice to have a mixture and a choice.

[lindylou]

Have you tried living in Nottingham? That should do you.

or Derby !! :) :)

we got lost in Derby town centre once :eek: driving round and around !! :PDT_Xtremez_42:

We used to visit relatives living in the Derby area.

[Spike]

Have you tried living in Nottingham? That should do you.

No I live in Liverpool unlike yourself. So I would prefer my city not to become a laughing stock.

Build your towers in Watford.

[Spike]

I dont mind NEW Lindy. Its these joke buildings that I object too.

[lindylou]

I dont mind NEW Lindy. Its these joke buildings that I object too.

must admit, I laughed at your description of the view being blocked by a lump of rubbish !! :lol:


ps,

there was a similar discussion on breakfast tv this morning - about new buildings v traditional.

[Spike]

I dont mind new mixing in with Old. Its when you build massive towers that do not fir in. Its stupid and looks stupid.

The new Museum fits in well.

[Waterways]

there was a similar discussion on breakfast tv this morning - about new buildings v traditional.

What is traditional? The four buildings at the Pier Head. Two are Americanesque, one Italianesque and one Art Deco (which is modern) At Lime St one is classical Greek (3,000 year old design) and the other French Renaissance (looks like a Chattauex)which is 300 year old design. These buildings are heavy and expensive to construct

Modern materials make it easier and cheaper to construct buildings more on a human scale. The interiors are far superior given large open rooms. Far more flexibility is given when the architect has the right vision. Unfortunately many modern buildings lack attention to street level, which is a human failure, not one of the construction techniques or style.

The Atlantic Tower, the Capital Building and others were designed for the elevated roadway Shankland plan - which thank God, never came. That is why at street level they are geared for cars. That can be rectified giving vibrancy and animation, but we need the population density in the centre and attractions in to draw people in from all Merseyside. Height gives that.

We also need Merseyrail extending to cope and enhance the vibrancy. Make it easier for people to get to places of interest and vibrancy in comfort and they will go. I know of people on the Wirral who spend their evenings in Liverpool city centre. They live near Merseyrail stations and it is minutes into the centre.

It is not modern buildings that was the problem in Liverpool, it was the planning. St. John's market is/was an absolute failure in planning. Another is the Liverpool One complex,which should have had the historical dock under it partial excavated to add value and attraction - water attracts and the historical angle adds much value. Boats cannot enter as the main sewage pipes run down the Dock Rd.

When Clayton Square was built, the Albert Dock was well under way. Common sense said put it near the water, near a Merseyrail station.

[Waterways]

I dont mind new mixing in with Old. Its when you build massive towers that do not fir in.

Liverpool does not have massive towers at all. Go to London, Chicago and NY....and even Manchester. Liverpool is pretty well low rise.

[Waterways]

This could be the impetus to remove the Dock Rd highway from running through Liverpool's city centre and make the city more people friendly.


The New York Times. Special Report: Business of Green. June 24, 2010

Watery Future for the City of Light

By LOUISE LOFTUS -
NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/25/business/energy-environment/25iht-rbogpar.html)

PARIS — Murky with pollution after decades of industrial and agricultural dumping, the River Seine, flowing through Paris, was nearly dead in the 1970s.

Jacques Chirac, then mayor of Paris, started a cleanup campaign in the early 1990s, and by last year Atlantic salmon were reported to have returned to the river — though just this month eating fish from the river was banned because of dangerously high residual levels of polychlorinated biphenyl, a toxic chemical outlawed from industrial use in Europe more than 20 years ago.

The French environment minister, Jean-Louis Borloo, has set in motion a project to eradicate PCBs from Paris’s waters. Meanwhile, a plan to extend the cleanup from the river to its banks is being pushed by City Hall — part of an ambitious project to lure Parisians back to the river.

Every Sunday for the past few years, the expressways that border the Seine in central Paris have been closed to cars and opened, instead, to strollers, roller skaters and cyclists.

In April, the Socialist mayor of Paris, Bertrand Delanoë, announced plans to go a step further by permanently closing a 2-kilometer, or 1.2-mile, stretch of the Left Bank and slowing traffic on the Right Bank. The whole area would be transformed into a “pretty urban boulevard,” Mr. Delanoë said, with cars and pedestrians coexisting among cafes, flowers and floating islands.

City Hall planners estimate construction costs at €40 million, or $48.8 million, and maintenance costs at €2 million a year, and say the project could be completed in two years.

That, however, may depend on the readiness of the center-right French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, and his government to support the plan, since the riverside roads belong to the autonomous Paris Ports Authority, not to City Hall, and traffic management on them is the responsibility of the prefect of Paris, an official appointed by Mr. Sarkozy.

Mr. Sarkozy himself has other visions for Paris, expressed by the creation in March 2008 of a new government post, secretary of state for the development of the Capital Region, and the announcement last year of a €35 billion metropolitan redevelopment plan covering Paris and the Seine Valley.

With presidential elections due in 2012 — in which Mr. Delanoë may be a Socialist contender — the Seine is on the front line both in the political war and in Mr. Delanoë’s battle against what he calls the “unacceptable hegemony” of cars in the capital. Since 2001 he has introduced new trams, bike and bus lanes and the popular Vélib’ bicycle rental scheme. He is also responsible for the Paris-Plage program, which transforms a section of the riverbank into an urban beach every summer.

But some Parisians are not convinced. The Seine expressways were built in the 1970s as the linchpin of a program by President Georges Pompidou to turn Paris into “a city for the automobile.” On the Right Bank, the expressway carries 40,000 vehicles per day and 4,000 an hour at peak times, according to City Hall figures. On the Left Bank, the traffic is lighter but still reaches 2,000 vehicles per hour at rush hour.

According to Mr. Delanoë’s office, rerouting traffic away from the riverbanks would increase commute times across the city by only six minutes. But some commuters and taxi drivers warn that congestion in the city, already scarcely tolerable, would be made far worse.

“This will degrade the quality of life of French workers,” said one message on the mayor’s public consultation Web site. “The lives of people who work during the week will be even more complicated and stressful, and you degrade the working conditions of the inhabitants of Île de France in favor of the ‘idle’ and tourists.”

Supporters of Mr. Delanoë turn that argument on its head. “This is an initiative for all Parisians, and it’s part of a pattern of a larger translation. We are in the midst of a shifting paradigm,” said Eric Britton, an American economist in Paris and founder of NewMobility, a sustainable transport advocacy organization.

Amenities like rivers and green space must be allowed to once again become the “lungs of the city,” Mr. Britton said. “Cities must plan this way to be global competitors now,” he said. “The time of the car is over, and symbols, like the river, are the new metrics of civilization.”

The benefits can be not just environmental, but economic too, he said.

A 2009 study by Walkscore, a Web site that rates neighborhoods in terms of pedestrian access, evaluated the effect of “walkability” on U.S. housing prices, using 95,000 real estate transactions. The study found that making it easier for people to get around on foot raised housing values in 13 out of 15 markets. In some areas, increasing walkability by 25 percent raised house values by as much as $34,000 — with potential spinoff benefits to the public through higher property tax revenues.

“What we have to make sure of,” Mr. Britton said, “is that there is a proper system of land value capture in place.”

Todd Litman, a transportation economist and executive director of the Victoria Transport Policy Institute, an independent research organization based in Canada, puts the lesson this way: “Some of the money cities currently spend to increase travel speeds could be spent more efficiently improving the comfort, convenience and security of walking, cycling and public transport.”

[Spike]

Liverpool does not massive have towers at all. Go to London, Chicago and NY....and even Manchester. Liverpool is pretty well low rise.

And thats how it should stay. I thank thee

[Waterways]

Liverpool should adopt this Mew Mobility Agenda.

New Mobility's aims can be described as:


Providing equity of mobility between those with and without cars, and throughout the urban area
Reducing the carbon intensity of urban transport (as a whole)
Making use of all the modes of transport at our disposal (including foot, cycle and all means of motorised transport), as well as technological solutions such as teleworking and passenger information
Improving the quality of urban life, particularly in terms of the effects of road traffic

[Spike]

Liverpool should adopt this Mew Mobility Agenda.

New Mobility's aims can be described as:


Providing equity of mobility between those with and without cars, and throughout the urban area
Reducing the carbon intensity of urban transport (as a whole)
Making use of all the modes of transport at our disposal (including foot, cycle and all means of motorised transport), as well as technological solutions such as teleworking and passenger information
Improving the quality of urban life, particularly in terms of the effects of road traffic


Well I agree with that.

[Harry]

People who dont like tall buildings must have been hit on the head by a lift as a child.
The new museum is squat and ugly like the new arena. why should buildings have to comply in size to ugly brick warehouses like the Albert Dock?
I think the Liver Building is a joke, an ugly,fat, grey, rectangular concrete office block hiding the beautiful Tower Building in its shadow.

[Spike]

People who dont like tall buildings must have been hit on the head by a lift as a child.


Really? Every person?

If you love them go live in one. New York should suit you.

I was not hit on the head by a lift, though calling the Albert Dock and Liver Buildings ugly and a Joke seems the lift may have hit you.

I hate towers. Knock them all down.

[lindylou]

.
The new museum is squat and ugly like the new arena. why should buildings have to comply in size to ugly brick warehouses like the Albert Dock?
I think the Liver Building is a joke, an ugly,fat, grey, rectangular concrete office block hiding the beautiful Tower Building in its shadow.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/rubinda/avatars/e5006818.gif


As I said, I'm taking time to warm to the new museum because I'm not mad about it's shape - I've heard it being described as looking like a discarded ciggie packet ! or like an airconditioning vent ! :)
... but I think we will pleasantly surprised when we see the interior. ( well, I'm hoping so) It has the advantage of having great views from the windows, so I'm told.

We couldn't be without our Liver building now ! :eek: and I think you are pulling our leg about the 'ugly warehouses!'

[Max]

Yeah don't like the new muesuem, new buildings in that area should be built to fit in more.

[wsteve55]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/rubinda/avatars/e5006818.gif


As I said, I'm taking time to warm to the new museum because I'm not mad about it's shape - I've heard it being described as looking like a discarded ciggie packet ! or like an airconditioning vent ! :)
... but I think we will pleasantly surprised when we see the interior. ( well, I'm hoping so) It has the advantage of having great views from the windows, so I'm told.

We couldn't be without our Liver building now ! :eek: and I think you are pulling our leg about the 'ugly warehouses!'

Like that smiley,Lindy!:nod:

[naked lilac]

Why change Liverpool to be LA...??? I was born in California.. and I must say, LA doesn't have tall skyscrapers.. I think you are thinking of New York maybe?

Liverpool and its Old Worldly charm, is what people come to see.. Not modern skyscrapers.. It is unique in history and I am one for keeping it old world looking.. Sets it apart.. I was disappointed in the New Museum structure, and Liverpool One..a bit..

I do think the City planners have gone in all directions.. and that Liverpool is loosing that charm a bit.. If I wanted to see America ...I wouldn't go to Liverpool.. or Europe.. Keep it unique ...thats' my thoughts... ALOHA..and ta ra..

[az_gila]

Why change Liverpool to be LA...??? I was born in California.. and I must say, LA doesn't have tall skyscrapers.. I think you are thinking of New York maybe?
......
I do think the City planners have gone in all directions.. and that Liverpool is loosing that charm a bit.. If I wanted to see America ...I wouldn't go to Liverpool.. or Europe.. Keep it unique ...thats' my thoughts... ALOHA..and ta ra..

Not sure how tall you want it to be to call it tall....:)

The top one in Los Angeles is just over 1000 ft and 73 stories - sounds tall enough to me, and it sure looked tall when I flew over it in a small plane at 2000 ft. I lived 25 years in Los Angeles, and that one has been there since 1989.

The NY Empire State Bldg. is at 1250 ft high, and only four of the NY skyscrapers are taller - but they are certainly a lot denser in NY.

I agree on the Old World charm comments, though the new museum, being black, didn't seem to distract very much from the cityscape viewed from the river when I saw it unfinished last November.

[Max]

Tallest LA building.

http://www.you-are-here.com/los_angeles/us_bank.jpg

Tallest Chicago building looks nice too which is the US's tallest!

http://www.chitowndining.com/www.chitowndining.com/images/large/willis-tower-590x829.jpg

Chicago skyline looks nice too.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Chicago_montage_1_by_Jleon.jpg

[lindylou]

Why change Liverpool to be LA...??? I was born in California.. and I must say, LA doesn't have tall skyscrapers.. I think you are thinking of New York maybe?

Liverpool and its Old Worldly charm, is what people come to see.. Not modern skyscrapers.. It is unique in history and I am one for keeping it old world looking.. Sets it apart.. I was disappointed in the New Museum structure, and Liverpool One..a bit..

I do think the City planners have gone in all directions.. and that Liverpool is loosing that charm a bit.. If I wanted to see America ...I wouldn't go to Liverpool.. or Europe.. Keep it unique ...thats' my thoughts... ALOHA..and ta ra..


I know what you are saying NL. Thanks for your nice words about our city :hug:


I think the pierhead still retains it's charm and won't lose it even if it is flanked by smart new buildings.

[lindylou]

Look at those buildings Max posted. As the Americans would say - awesome !!

I want us to have some of that too .. but within reason - not being clogged up with them, but I want Liverpool to be up there with the rest of them with some knock 'em dead buildings :)

I'm sure it won't alter our charm and what we already have.


ps, I don't often find myself - when talking about the pierhead - refering to 'the three graces' .. .. I've never been comfortable with that term as it always sounds a bit daft to me.

All my life growing up in Liverpool, I don't recall anyone saying the 3 graces. Not sure when it started - late 80s perhaps ??
The 3 graces sounds a bit insipid to me :)

[Spike]

I think the pierhead still retains it's charm and won't lose it even if it is flanked by smart new buildings.

I think it is losing its charm now. I love the Canal though, great idea that was.

[Waterways]

People who dont like tall buildings must have been hit on the head by a lift as a child.


LOL!

[Waterways]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/rubinda/avatars/e5006818.gif
As I said, I'm taking time to warm to the new museum because I'm not mad about it's shape

It looks different from every angle. The finish is superb.

[Waterways]

Why change Liverpool to be LA...??? I was born in California.. and I must say, LA doesn't have tall skyscrapers.. I think you are thinking of New York maybe?

Liverpool and its Old Worldly charm, is what people come to see.. Not modern skyscrapers.. It is unique in history and I am one for keeping it old world looking.. Sets it apart.. I was disappointed in the New Museum structure, and Liverpool One..a bit..

I do think the City planners have gone in all directions.. and that Liverpool is loosing that charm a bit.. If I wanted to see America ...I wouldn't go to Liverpool.. or Europe.. Keep it unique ...thats' my thoughts... ALOHA..and ta ra..

Thanks for the compliments. :) A basic, cheap, tall, glass block no one wants. Talls with character and distinction, yes. Liverpool had lots of old world charm but destroyed most of it in 50 years.

The city does not want to become a dead city like Venice. The city has so many first in architecture and engineering, and has to keep up, not draw a line in history and stop. The city has to project a go-ahead progressive image to survive. In the 1980s it was projected to become to the size of a large town it was contracting so rapidly - then it would concentrate on some renovated old parts. We can't build old buildings any more as they cost too much to build, although new buildings with traditional facades we can. They need to insist that any extension of the Georgian Quarter is buildings of the same Georgian style.

The city is poor and will accept almost any reasonable serious developments, although they do daft things like turn down a world-class building like the Brunswick Quay Towers. Liverpool One is just another shopping Mall of no distinction - built over a historical innovative Dock that could have been partially excavated to act as a focal point. That is obvious and too easy to think of.

Tall buildings bring in city centre density quickly, giving vibrancy.

Liverpool is more like Boston than other UK cities, as its previous American links were so strong. Boston is an old historic city and has managed to blend the old and the new.

[lindylou]

It looks different from every angle. The finish is superb.

When we first saw the plans for it, I thought it was disappointing and looking like the Showcase cinema !! ha! :) but I am open minded about it now. Things sometimes need to grow on you.
Still not sure, but it needs looking at from different perspectives as you say. Will probably like it much better once it's open and active.

[lindylou]

Liverpool One is just another shopping Mall of no distinction - built over a historical innovative Dock that could have been partially excavated to act as a focal point. That is obvious and too easy to think of.



The shopping mall is good but it was insane to build over the historic dock :eek:

They should have made much more of it. It would have been fantastic to have excavated a good part of it.

[Spike]

Insane to build these stupid towers.

If you like Boston go live there.

[wsteve55]

Had a walk around town yesterday,and Liverpool's looking Great!:nod:

[Ged]

I agree on the Old World charm comments, though the new museum, being black, didn't seem to distract very much from the cityscape viewed from the river when I saw it unfinished last November.

Agree with what you say but you must be getting the new museum building mixed up with the black granite apartments next door to it as the new museum is white.

[Spike]

You know what Ged thank god for people like yourself with your website. Soon it will be the only way of seeing what Liverpool was like. Our history is being taken away, nothing is being done to remember the Liverpool people. Are identity is being wiped out.

When its done I hope you are all happy.

Valletta in Malta. Go see what they have done there. Its fantastic. They have preserved the history and made a great city. Not tried to copy America. Its fantastic there and no need for high rise jokes.

[Ged]

Thanks Spike. I'm glad the website can let people see or remember what it was like but I have to admit to being proud last week when I looked down river, or is it up river from New Brighton and saw that big liner in and all the talls (or tallish's) behind it. It does add a sense of density and a bustling hive of activity feel to what was once what looked very low level from that angle.

Perhaps though, they could have started the talls smaller, either side of the 3 graces, gradually getting taller as they span out North and South and so drawing the eye to the original Pier Head as I wouldn't want them getting lost in the midsts.

[az_gila]

Agree with what you say but you must be getting the new museum building mixed up with the black granite apartments next door to it as the new museum is white.

OK... I'm really confused now...:)

It looked black when I saw it, but is the final color white? If so, I liked the black version best...


16161
I think this was how I saw it...

16160

My mistake - get the black paint out - should only take a few thousand gallons...

[az_gila]

........

Perhaps though, they could have started the talls smaller, either side of the 3 graces, gradually getting taller as they span out North and South and so drawing the eye to the original Pier Head as I wouldn't want them getting lost in the midsts.


That's a great idea.... sometimes the old buildings can get overwhelmed, and there is no going back....:sad:

From New York...

16162

[gregs dad]

The difference with Liverpool and L A tall buildings they look as if they will last, ours look like they have a 40 year life span like all our modern buildings.

[lindylou]

Had a walk around town yesterday,and Liverpool's looking Great!:nod:

I always get a sense of excitement now when I walk around town, and the waterfront is certainly exciting. I rave on it every time we go there. :) I'm just so proud of how Liverpool is looking now.

[lindylou]

Valletta in Malta. Go see what they have done there. Its fantastic. They have preserved the history and made a great city. Not tried to copy America. Its fantastic there and no need for high rise jokes.

I take your point there Spike. I can imagine that Valletta must be fantastic while preserving history. :nod: I love places like that - the cities in Malta, Italy, Spain, etc,

I have to agree that it's not necessary to copy USA.

... but still, I can't help but love some of that bling ! :)

I'm sure you could have the best of both worlds. What about Barcelona ? hasn't that got a good mixture of the two ?

[lindylou]

Thanks Spike. I'm glad the website can let people see or remember what it was like but I have to admit to being proud last week when I looked down river, or is it up river from New Brighton and saw that big liner in and all the talls (or tallish's) behind it. It does add a sense of density and a bustling hive of activity feel to what was once what looked very low level from that angle.

Perhaps though, they could have started the talls smaller, either side of the 3 graces, gradually getting taller as they span out North and South and so drawing the eye to the original Pier Head as I wouldn't want them getting lost in the midsts.


Ged, that's the idea I'm thinking of - not too clogged up with too much clutter like some of the more built up cities of the world, but a nice balance spanning out either side of the Pier Head.

[lindylou]

The difference with Liverpool and L A tall buildings they look as if they will last, ours look like they have a 40 year life span like all our modern buildings.

That thought has crossed my mind GD.

As much as I love our new stuff, I did wonder to myself if it will be there when my son is a grandad :)

[lindylou]

Here's the ugly precinct we were talking about !

[gregs dad]

Should we not be filling the ones built before new builds. The amount of empty office space and luxury flats lying empty must run into acres

[Max]

That Musuem should of been made to fit in with the three graces. Maybe a brick building would of been better if done right!

[Spike]

Should we not be filling the ones built before new builds. The amount of empty office space and luxury flats lying empty must run into acres

Well Said:handclap:

[Ged]

Talls are not always great. For instance I much prefer Alvor's (on the Algarve) policy of not allowing buildings/hotels of a certain height along its beach front - like the gross Benidorm.

[naked lilac]

I am with Spike on this, and Gregs Dad.. Sorry....High risers are ugly to me.. and also dangerous in emergencies... Lived in one in Chicago... Had to evacuate from the 19th floor.. stairs all the way.... NOT fun in the snow, in your pj's... Think about it...


I think Liverpool will totally loose its flair.. I do think they could refurbish all your olde beautiful architect.. Make them LOFTS inside.. for the Middle class yuppie types... This is something people would buy... and it would keep the intriquity of the City.. Liverpool is famous for the 3 Graces.. and the Liver Birds.. to take that away is shameful... If you want Highrises everywhere.. go to Dubai... yuck!!

Keep the old architecture.. Improve on the inside plumbing, and design of the Old.. Its' sound as a pound...

[naked lilac]

I suppose Max...I never realized how tall some were..as they don't seemed crammed together like New York or Chicago's are.. It has a bit more space with low risers too... Thanks for that google... I still don't like them... No matter where they are.. never have, never will... Why be in small cubes to live.. when you could refurbish nice brick buildings in Liverpool to become nice new Lofts and modernized inside.. Gives it a more artsy appeal.. I think.. One can improve on a city.. Just doesn't need people on top of people on top of people etc etc.. to get modernized ....

[Waterways]

If you like Boston go live there.

If you like Nottingham go live there.

[Waterways]

You know what Ged thank god for people like yourself with your website. Soon it will be the only way of seeing what Liverpool was like. Our history is being taken away, nothing is being done to remember the Liverpool people. Are identity is being wiped out.


Ged's site is mainly buildings that no longer exist. Many deserved to go. We can't rebuild the past. We have to do leading edge design.



Valletta in Malta. Go see what they have done there. Its fantastic. They have preserved the history and made a great city. Not tried to copy America. Its fantastic there and no need for high rise jokes.

Valletta relies mainly on tourism. Liverpool is still a commercial city that needs buildings to suit. Venice is a dead city that turned to tourism. Liverpool can get that old world charm back by using some brains when redeveloping the docks - little thought has gone into redevelopments. Big business wants the waters to make big money, even having car and coach parks, destroying the historic nature and ambiance.

We do need more height in parts.

[lindylou]

I suppose Max...I never realized how tall some were..as they don't seemed crammed together like New York or Chicago's are.. It has a bit more space with low risers too... Thanks for that google... I still don't like them... No matter where they are.. never have, never will... Why be in small cubes to live.. when you could refurbish nice brick buildings in Liverpool to become nice new Lofts and modernized inside.. Gives it a more artsy appeal.. I think.. One can improve on a city.. Just doesn't need people on top of people on top of people etc etc.. to get modernized ....


can't disgree with that NL. Of course our old buildings should be refurbished. I LOVE huge Georgian and Victorian houses.

We've got to move with the times as well. The north and south sides on either side of the Pierhead are looking much more dynamic than the way it was before. It had fallen into neglect and looked depressing and dreary. The waterfront was certainly not a place you gave a second theough to or would dream of visiting for a day out ! Look at it now - bright, attractive, vibrant, interesting - - now we want to get down there and have a closer look. People are now going down there when they never did before.

[Waterways]

That's a great idea.... sometimes the old buildings can get overwhelmed, and there is no going back....:sad:

From New York...


That is the idea. A northern cluster of talls. There should be a southern cluster but the idiots rejected the Brunswick Quay Tower.

[lindylou]

Ged, I agree with what you said in a previous post about Alvor not being built up as compared to the likes of grotesque concrete jungles like Benidorm or Torremolinos. But they are holiday places so it's not quite the same.

[Waterways]

The difference with Liverpool and L A tall buildings they look as if they will last, ours look like they have a 40 year life span like all our modern buildings.

That is about right. Look at the sandcastle. That needs a re-clad.

[lindylou]

This is a good discussion :)

[Waterways]

Should we not be filling the ones built before new builds. The amount of empty office space and luxury flats lying empty must run into acres

The city is short of homes. There are other reasons why they are not filled. If the office space is there it attracts business. That is being proactive. They will not move into the city with no accommodation.

[Waterways]

Talls are not always great. For instance I much prefer Alvor's (on the Algarve) policy of not allowing buildings/hotels of a certain height along its beach front - like the gross Benidorm.

Many have small on the front and the buildings gradually rise in height - as you have already suggested. The dock quays should use the Albert Dock as the model. Protected walkways from the wind, no vehicles on the quays, etc.

How Not to do it - click (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/PoorHousing.html)

[Waterways]

Tallest LA building.

http://www.you-are-here.com/los_angeles/us_bank.jpg


The Citigroup Building is what we do not want. The others are fine.

[Spike]

If you like Nottingham go live there.

Who Likes Nottingham? I never said I did. I like Liverpool, As it is thank you very much. Without silly ideas from goons who live in Watford.

Try to keep up soft lad.

[Spike]

The Citigroup Building is what we do not want. The others are fine.

The others are horrible.

Whats this we? You live in Watford. Go and wreck that place.

[Waterways]

The others are horrible.

Whats this we? You live in Watford. Go and wreck that place.

I do not live in Watford and would like to wreck it.

[Waterways]

Who Likes Nottingham? I never said I did.

That is what you aspire to. Watford should suit you as well.

[Spike]

Nope Liverpool suits me. As it is. Without daft Towers.

[Waterways]

Nope Liverpool suits me. As it is. Without daft Towers.

I don't like daft towers either. I like these:

http://www.globalconstructionwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/859_385-aedas-empire-tower-replacement-193x300.jpg

http://www.globalconstructionwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/rmjm-gazprom-hq.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/46TheShard_pic2.jpg

http://cinemaelectronica.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ghurkin-foster.jpg

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/student/club/meaba/Spec.%20Burj%20Al%20Arab%20web%20lay-out.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yHmQDACnsWQ/S0KZgQRekoI/AAAAAAAAAtQ/0dY5sqskalE/s400/dubai-tower.jpg

[Spike]

Then you deffo like daft towers. They would look stupid here.

[Waterways]

Then you deffo like daft towers. They would look stupid here.

They would add value giving world-wide notoriety. Or we could be like Nottingham, Leeds or Leicester, your preferred boring dross type of cities. I prefer interesting, dynamic and exciting cities with bold, quality, advanced architecture and engineering. That is the route the city should go.

Liverpool is ideal for advanced architecture. Even having a tower in the river - this would set the city apart..

[lindylou]

Then you deffo like daft towers. They would look stupid here.

those towers in the pics are stunning tho' :PDT_Aliboronz_11: they have the wow factor !

[Spike]

They would look silly in Liverpool.

[Waterways]

They would look silly in Liverpool.

What we have right now clearly does not look silly giving a nice skyline, with quality, real tall buildings much needed value would be added: architecturally and economically.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/165BeethamTowerWest_pic2.jpg
We need more like this but taller.

[Spike]

Ugliness would be added.

[naked lilac]

Lindylou and Waterways and whoever else... What about the emergency factor I brought up??? Any thoughts if you live up on the top floor..... Water sprinklers would surely kill your million dollar interiors...

Also, you are talking here, about million dollar flats... YES, million dollars... What average man can afford such..?? A lot would remain vacant.. It seems distastful to make such buildings so so high, and only a few can afford to live in them... Sounds like it would bring in maybe.....the oil barrons of Dubai??? Uh... do you really need all that??? Don't think so..

If you want to inprove on the waterfront.. Put in nice cafes...where people can go.. average man and all.. Make it thrive in giving jobs to the locals.. Nice looking store fronts.. Those high spirals are not, (my opinion) saying Liverpool...

What do people come to Liverpool for...????? I will tell you.... The Beatles for a large part!! And the pub atmosphere and the look of how it looked in 2002... YEP.. thats' my opinion... Take away that charm... and well.........BIG GLASS structures.. are dangerous, not practical for the average joe.. and well... UGLY...for Liverpool...

This is too much ... Moderization is one thing.. But, make it fit with the history too... I speak of Hawaii.. Our architecture does have a couple of high rises... but, done tastefully... and I must add.. most of downtown Honolulu.. is being refurbished like the old 1800 buildings... The look is what captures the fantasy....

[Spike]

Well said NL:handclap: And some great ideas you have ome up with.

[lindylou]

Good post NL and food for thought.

[Waterways]

Good post NL and food for thought.

Lindy, keep all the old for sure and extend on it, the city is still a commercial city and needs offices and accommodation to suit.

There is nothing wrong having a quality cluster of tall buildings on the north and south end waterfronts. No more Arenas on the quays that are bland, out of character and even have cars parks on the quays as well. The Albert Dock model clearly needs emulating on most quays as it works and will bring people to the docks waters with amenities to suit. The great thing about height is that it increases population density quite quickly. The odd very tall buildings among a collection of low-rises in the quays would be nice.

[Spike]

The Odd tall build.....ODD being the word. They look silly next to our fantastic buildings. And as Gregs dad pointed out the one we have is not even nearly full.

[Waterways]

The Odd tall build.....ODD being the word. They look silly next to our fantastic buildings. And as Gregs dad pointed out the one we have is not even nearly full.

It will be full, once the Credit Crunch has gone. The city is short of homes, especially quality homes, which you have been informed of but chose to ignore. Or we could have scruffy waste ground with cars parked on it. I prefer a smart modern building.

The odder the tall building the better.

[Spike]

The city is building homes, or do you choose to ignore that? look along Kensington homes are springing up. other areas are starting the process.

What family would want to live in a tower block in the city???? where do the kids play. Then again who could aford one? not many of Liverpool's working people.

Though the biggest point is that they are pig ugly.

[Spike]

Why waste ground? We could build other things. Not only towers can be built on waste ground.

[lindylou]

Well, before refurbishment the waterfront was mostly dismal waste ground - I know because I used to take my dogs there for a run !! We went there because it was deserted and the dogs could run loose without meeting anyone else with dogs.

[lindylou]

Lindy, keep all the old for sure and extend on it, the city is still a commercial city and needs offices and accommodation to suit.

There is nothing wrong having a quality cluster of tall buildings on the north and south end waterfronts. No more Arenas on the quays that are bland, out of character and even have cars parks on the quays as well. The Albert Dock model clearly needs emulating on most quays as it works and will bring people to the docks waters with amenities to suit. The great thing about height is that it increases population density quite quickly. The odd very tall buildings among a collection of low-rises in the quays would be nice.

Although I do understand what NL and others are saying, (and I love our heritage buildings as much as anyone), I do agree that a cluster of stunning buildings to the south and the north of the Pierhead will look fab when completed.

The buildings should not be boring 'any town' rectangles, but they should be unusual, eyecatching and stunning shapes.

.. and not only is the view good from the river - I go along Everton rd frequently and the view from the hill is more interesting with the new buildings rising up in the distance.

[Spike]

I go along Prescot Road and get a view of that horrible tower with that stupid box thingy at the top...Uuuuurgh it ruins the skyline.

[lindylou]

I go along Prescot Road and get a view of that horrible tower with that stupid box thingy at the top...Uuuuurgh it ruins the skyline.

ha,ha, it looks a bit like a periscope from a distance :)

[Ged]

Nothing can look as bad as Manchester's Beetham Tower.

[Max]

Nothing can look as bad as Manchester's Beetham Tower.

Hahah, that is bad I agree. Beetham West craps on Manchester's one!

[Max]

Big cities in Japan are full of skyscrapers but they manage to keep alot of cultural buildings mixed with them too and those wonderfull Cherry Blossoms along the rivers and parks too! In Osaka, they have a Castle and park right next to the Skycrapers!

http://www-higashi.ist.osaka-u.ac.jp/forte.pstv97/osaka2.gif

I am fan of this Osaka skycraper called "Umaeda Sky Building" because it's two joined together and theres an open escalator inbetween high up!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Umeda_Sky_building.jpg

[Waterways]

The city is building homes, or do you choose to ignore that? look along Kensington homes are springing up. other areas are starting the process.

What family would want to live in a tower block in the city????

They are not meant for children. They are for outsiders, and progressive locals, of which you are are not one.

[Waterways]

Why waste ground? We could build other things. .

Like shed supermarkets? Fantastic .Just what we all need.

[Spike]

Like shed supermarkets? Fantastic .Just what we all need.

Only you said build Supermarkets, Nobody else.. Must be because you can not give a real arguement for a tower.

[Spike]

They are not meant for children. They are for outsiders, and progressive locals, of which you are are not one.

I am progressive. I dont need silly towers to progress.

[Spike]

The city is short of homes, especially quality homes,

So only Towers offer Quality homes?

Homes-stirs the mind into families. Only you dont want them in the towers.

You are sounding more stupid by the minute.

Go live in a Tower in Watford.

[Waterways]

So only Towers offer Quality homes?


They maximize the investment and produce quality accommodation - with a view.



Go live in a Tower in Watford.

You have a thing about Watford. You need therapy.

[Waterways]

The view from my desk in Chicago. Fantastically high. It was very animated at street level as the density was high. A real buzz! Great views.
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5408/img108o.jpg

[naked lilac]

No one answered my question YET..."What about the emergency factor???" Does happen you know... a fire, earth quake.., or even someone having a heart attack...(God forbid)....etc Well, like I said.. been in one with an emergency before.. Never again...Not to live anyway... Much rather have a yard and earth beneath my toes... But that is my opinion...

...Density factor is right! Ya can't even see sky looking up...from down below in that photo......Maybe, just a line of sky????? Oh my.... :neutral: Too dense for me..

I suppose... Each to their own taste ,is the way this thread is going.. :) And, by right, I think that is what makes the World go round.. different opinions on where one would like to live.. or work..

[Spike]

They maximize the investment and produce quality accommodation - with a view.



You have a thing about Watford. You need therapy.

A view of another tower window for some sides. They still dont sort out the problem of homes for Liverpool families, you know those people you care nothing for. The people you think are scum.

The towers are ugly as sin, get over it. Stick some photos on your wall of big towers and knock yourself out.

You live in Watford, I know...Not Chicago.

[Spike]

Hi NL

They can not answer it as it will always be a danger. It is hard enough getting out of a 4 story building never mind one 20 or 30 stories high.

[Ged]

I would hate to live at the top and realise I needed a pint of milk. It would seem such a mission to get the lift all the way down.

[lindylou]

NL, the safety angle is of course an issue to worry about.

When I say I like unusual shaped buildings - I wasn't necessarily thinking of dwellings. There could be a mixture of a few apartments, offices, retail establishments, a few restaurants, some doctors, dentists, beauty salons - and some cosmetic surgeons for the afluent yuppies, Ha! whatever. Mainly offices I suppose. I think we have enough apartments now.

I don't think these type of apartments are aimed at average families with kids.



What's the problem with Liverpool having a bit of glamour ?? why shouldn't we have it ?? The waterfront is looking fantastic.

[Spike]

Nowt wrong with Glamour LL.

are strange shaped towers or high rise towers glamour though? Why not something else.

God forbid we turn into Benidorm.

[lindylou]

hee, hee, Benidorm looks horrible ! although I havn't been there - but it does look grotesgue from what I've seen of it.
It's holiday place though.
We wouldn't want anything as cluttered as that. I do agree with NL aswell about not actually being able to see the sky for skyscrapers. I would never want it to that extent ! :eek:

Just a few smart and lovely buildings is fine. :)

[Waterways]

They still dont sort out the problem of homes for Liverpool families,


Homes are homes - we need them, especially quality homes. The market decides the price.



You live in Watford, I know...Not Chicago.

I do? fantastic.

[Waterways]

They still dont sort out the problem of homes for Liverpool families,


Homes are homes - we need them, especially quality homes. The market decides the price.



You live in Watford, I know...Not Chicago.

I do? fantastic.

[Waterways]

No one answered my question YET..."What about the emergency factor???" Does happen you know... a fire, earth quake.., or even someone having a heart attack...(God forbid)....etc Well, like I said.. been in one with an emergency before.. Never again...Not to live anyway... Much rather have a yard and earth beneath my toes... But that is my opinion...

...Density factor is right! Ya can't even see sky looking up...from down below in that photo......Maybe, just a line of sky????? Oh my.... :neutral: Too dense for me..

I suppose... Each to their own taste ,is the way this thread is going.. :) And, by right, I think that is what makes the World go round.. different opinions on where one would like to live.. or work..

The view was excellent. Sear Towers and all. Just look up and to the sides. The other windows had some of the 100 year old early skycrapers in view. They were building another building below which was nice to look at.

Safety? They design that in now. Fireproof materials, no naked flames inside like gas burners, etc.

[Waterways]

hee, hee, Benidorm looks horrible ! although I havn't been there - but it does look grotesgue from what I've seen of it.
It's holiday place though.
We wouldn't want anything as cluttered as that. I do agree with NL aswell about not actually being able to see the sky for skyscrapers. I would never want it to that extent ! :eek:

Just a few smart and lovely buildings is fine. :)

Benidorm is a planning disaster. Some cities do cluster buildings too tightly - but hey are commercial buildings. Function first - form after. Chicago is one. But much fun.

[gregs dad]

[QUOTE=Waterways;284541]They maximize the investment and produce quality accommodation - with a view.
What view, the tower across the road

[Spike]

What view, the tower across the road

Well Said

[Spike]

Homes are homes - we need them, especially quality homes. The market decides the price.



I do? fantastic.

We need family homes. Not tower blocks. We knocked most of our Tower blocks down.

Im glad you like your hometown of Watford.

[Ged]

It has to be said that developers by and large aren't interested in making the place look attractive, just maximising what money they can make out of the smallest footprint. This goes for whether it's someone buying up lovely old victorian detached properties and ripping them out and turning them into flats - or - apartments as that word gets more rent.

Gregs dad is correct in that it must be annoying for the owners in these high rises with a view paying top wack only for another tower block to be built directly in the view line of it blocking out the Welsh mountains et al.

[Waterways]

What view, the tower across the road

Not in Liverpool, which is not doing a NY.

[Waterways]

Im glad you like your hometown of Watford.

I like Watford?

[Waterways]

It has to be said that developers by and large aren't interested in making the place look attractive, just maximising what money they can make out of the smallest footprint. This goes for whether it's someone buying up lovely old victorian detached properties and ripping them out and turning them into flats - or - apartments as that word gets more rent.


The taller the more they make ,meaning they can appoint the building better with superior design and materials. Look at Liverpool when almost every building gets 5 to 10 floors lopped off. The well appointed foyer get the marble taken away, the exterior gets cheaper finishing, etc. From a well designed building it ends up poorly finished bland forgettable stump - so Liverpool.

If we are going to build modern buildings, build them properly: tall, well designed and appointed.

[Spike]

The taller the more they make ,meaning they can appoint the building better with superior design and materials. Look at Liverpool when almost every building gets 5 to 10 floors lopped off. The well appointed foyer get the marble taken away, the exterior gets cheaper finishing, etc. From a well designed building it ends up poorly finished bland forgettable stump - so Liverpool.

If we are going to build modern buildings, build them properly: tall, well designed and appointed.

NAH! just dont build this rubbish.

[gregs dad]

You only have to look at the Waterloo dock,They developed that into luxury apartments with view across the river, showed people the model of how it would look. A couple of tears later they built a block half as high again in front of them, which wasn`t on the model, so depriving half of the first tenanants of the views.

[Waterways]

You only have to look at the Waterloo dock,They developed that into luxury apartments with view across the river, showed people the model of how it would look. A couple of tears later they built a block half as high again in front of them, which wasn`t on the model, so depriving half of the first tenanants of the views.

They were naive to think that blank quay would be left vacant. Also the best views are when they face inwards into the dock waterspaces, not to the tidal river, with mud at low tide, which is quite bland. The Albert Dock shelters those on the quays from the wind. The way to do it.

[Spike]

Are you sheltered from the wind 20 floors plus up?

[Spike]

We need shelter from Waterways wind.

[Max]

I am a fan of this Skyscraper in Osaka. Two buildings connected and inbetween them high up is a bridge that goes across from one to the other and the public can go up and get a view of the city from them which is about 2 or 3 pounds odd in our money!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Umeda_Sky_building.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Umeda_Sky_building_01.jpg

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4002.html

[Max]

First time I heard of Benidorm was when Brookside did some show were they went to a stag do or engagement/honeymoon related party with Bev in it I think! I never remembered that until seeing "Benidorm" on this thread hahah!

[Waterways]

I am a fan of this Skyscraper in Osaka. Two buildings connected and inbetween them high up is a bridge that goes across from one to the other and the public can go up and get a view of the city from them which is about 2 or 3 pounds odd in our money!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Umeda_Sky_building.jpg


That is a nice building. Very impressive and different.

[Waterways]

Are you sheltered from the wind 20 floors plus up?

Yes, the windows are sealed.

[Waterways]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j240/Gumsandals/A.jpg

I like touches like this.

This is nice:
http://www.architecturesdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/architecture-design/2009/12/Luxurious-Architecture-Project-YAS-Hotel.jpg

[Spike]

I like them being blown up.

[Waterways]

I like them being blown up.

So do I. No stumps just three times bigger.

[wsteve55]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j240/Gumsandals/A.jpg

I like touches like this.

This is nice:
http://www.architecturesdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/architecture-design/2009/12/Luxurious-Architecture-Project-YAS-Hotel.jpg

Where's the second pic' from?

[Waterways]

Where's the second pic' from?

An architecture site. The YAS Hotel in Abu Dhabi. .

[Spike]

Its from a Joke shop

[wsteve55]

An architecture site.

Sorry,I meant it's location!

[Waterways]

Sorry,I meant it's location!

The YAS Hotel in Abu Dhabi. .

[wsteve55]

The YAS Hotel in Abu Dhabi. .

Looks F.A.B.!

[Waterways]

Looks F.A.B.!

It is what Liverpool needs. The director of the philharmonic orchestra stated that the existing hall is too small with rehearsals in a church hall. The hall is booked up for many differing events. He has stated a new opera house should have been built on the docks in a prominent location. The existing hall would still be used.

One like this hotel, say around Princes Half Tide Dock would be nice. The best location probably would have been where the museum and wedges are, or where the arena is with the branch docks reinstated. but too late for that. There are still some prime locations for such a building.

http://www.travlang.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/sydney_opera_house_00.jpg
We need something like this

[Spike]

Its not what Liverpool needs. It would look daft amid our buildings.

It looks like a glammed up shopping arcade. Or a funfair ride.

to many lights. bad for global warming.

[Waterways]

Its not what Liverpool needs. It would look daft amid our buildings.


Those wonderful buildings like the Kings Dock Cosco looking Arena and the multi-floor car parks on the quays. Wow! Just what we need next to the historic Albert Dock.

[Spike]

Those wonderful buildings like the Kings Dock Cosco looking Arena and the multi-floor car parks on the quays. Wow! Just what we need next to the historic Albert Dock.

Nope. We can build better than giant light bulbs.

The arena? Cosco? looks nothing like it.

The Albert Dock in need of a historic Light bulb...HA HA HA...stupid is as stupid does Forrest.

[Waterways]

The arena? Cosco? looks nothing like it.


It looks very like it.

[Spike]

It looks very like it.

No it does not.

[Lil V]

NAH! just dont build this rubbish.

Well said, Spike! What did you think of Will Alsop's design though? I think it's a pity that got knocked back when you see what did get accepted! This is from today's Echo - and of course there will be some who will comment "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?"

But what do other Yo-ers think - apart from WW of course, I think we know where he stands.

Architect Will Alsop criticises Liverpool's ‘mediocre’ waterfront buildings
Jun 30 2010 by David Bartlett, Liverpool Echo
THE architect behind the failed Fourth Grace scheme has launched a withering attack on the buildings that are being built in its place on Liverpool’s waterfront.
Will Alsop, whose company designed the Cloud, said the buildings the city has “ended up with... lie in the general malaise of architectural mediocrity that we find so popular with the current architectural press”.
He added: “In the end, this is all history but I do believe that Liverpool deserves much better than it got whether it was my building or not.”
Three glazed black blocks in the Mann Island development and the new Museum of Liverpool are currently nearing completion at the city’s Pier Head where the Cloud would have been built.
Mr Alsop also hit out at the National Museums Liverpool (NML) for the organisation’s role in the collapse of the Fourth Grace saying it had its own agenda.
He also claimed the Northwest Development Agency (NWDA) had pulled the plug on the project to meet a shortfall in funds for the ECHO Arena and BT Convention Centre.
He also claimed the city council had used its planning department as a “stalling device”.
His comments, during an online webchat with BDonline.co.uk, resurrected the row that erupted after his Cloud building was scrapped in July 2004.
The decision to abandon the project was made after it emerged that projected costs had risen by almost £100m.
Last night the council, the NWDA, and Neptune Developments who are building the three blocks rejected Mr Alsop’s claims. NML declined to comment on the claims"

[lindylou]

I said in the begining we should have had the Cloud. It would have been great.

[Ged]

I sort of like the cloud but not in the position it was touted for, maybe the Kings Dock area and certainly not the cost considering the interior wasn't even included or catered for. It wasn't even known what was going to be put inside there. I like the new museum but not the black apartments.

[Waterways]

The Cloud:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Rsl_LePBeKE/SBdJUVnJpJI/AAAAAAAABfE/pkm_4PzvD3A/s400/David+Alsop%27s+Cloud+Design+for+the+Toronto+Water front.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/4th_grace_alsop2.jpg

We did miss out.

[wsteve55]

We should have gone for it!:nod:

[Max]

The one that came in 2nd was better than the cloud!

Something with a bit more brick in the building would be better next to the graces than what they are building now!

[naked lilac]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/egfocus/sets/72157623933610517/show/
Something I found about the Black blocks... Interesting read..o some, the three black buildings, which will be clad in £15m of granite, will look out of place next to Liverpool's iconic 'three graces'. But others laud the Broadway Malyan-designed scheme as a strikingly modern addition to the Mersey waterfront, on the spot which would have housed Will Alsop's ill-fated proposed 'fourth grace'.
Architectural merit aside, the scheme, which includes 140,000 sq ft of offices and 376 apartments, has already proved quite a success for the developers. Local transport firm Merseytravel has pre-let the entire offfice element for £20.50 per sq ft, and in early 2009, it emerged that German bank Commerz Real had struck a deal to forward fund the office building.
Parry told me that 90% of the apartments have been taken up, subject to successful exchanges, and Liverpool FC ace Steven Gerrard has netted himself a couple of the more luxurious pads.

The residential element contains modest two-bed apartments on the lower floors, and multi-storey apartments at the top, complete with balconies overlooking the river and all built around a central atrium. The best apartments are rumoured to be going for more than £600,000.

[lindylou]

One of the blocks - looking from the Strand view - looks like a huge liner looming as if coming up from the river. Impressive.

[Waterways]

The best apartments are rumoured to be going for more than £600,000.

Quite cheap. By me that gets you not much at all.

[lindylou]

That's the only thing about these snazzy apartments - they are not for us mere mortals :) only footballers and their wags can afford them !

- - or drug barons !! :rolleyes:

It's sad really, but you often see criminals addresses - when reported in the Echo - as being in these waterfront apartments.

[Waterways]

That's the only thing about these snazzy apartments - they are not for us mere mortals :) only footballers and their wags can afford them !

- - or drug barons !! :rolleyes:

It's sad really, but you often see criminals addresses - when reported in the Echo - as being in these waterfront apartments.

To attract top companies to the city you need top accommodation. Many just do not understand this. Why people sneer and do not want top quality accommodation in the city is beyond me. It smells of jealousy.

[goldenface]

Plenty of single people live in the waterside, city centre apartments. It's quite easy to find a flat share there and not too expensive either. If you work in the city centre, its ideal.

The evenings are buzzing and it's a great feeling living in the city centre, especially during the week, its completely different to the weekend. Going for a stroll around the dock, or for a ride around the Pier Head, or a quick pint in the Pump House is just great.

[lindylou]

To attract top companies to the city you need top accommodation. Many just do not understand this. Why people sneer and do not want top quality accommodation in the city is beyond me. It smells of jealousy.


Not me tho' :)


We do need top quality for 'yuppies' even if we can't afford it ourselves - - I don't begrudge the affluent, and think we should have beautiful quality buildings rather than not having it at all. Any decent city should have some affluence.

[naked lilac]

Quite cheap. By me that gets you not much at all.

Well, that is almost a $1,000,000.00 US.. not quite.. but close.. If you say you aren't getting MUCH for that.. then, I rest my case.. This Top accomodations isn't much for the Bang.. A two-by-four flat..no balcony..or small one if not tooooo high.. and well, whoppie do! No jealousy on my part at all...I don't see where just because something is new.. it has to be HIGH in the Clouds and overpriced... I can see paying that for a nice home with land .... instead of giving your money to a pre-owned complex that wants a maintenance fee also on top of the mortgage... Now, that is not jealous at all.. Its' not about who has more to live in such a place.. Its' about the place.... And what you can get for the money... I think you are intitled to liking your tall buildings.. and also should look (since you like modern), into modernization...but, in a lower respect.. Have it where people (average) can afford to live in new places.. and take pride in the community... That is what is going to keep Liverpool alive..

[Spike]

To attract top companies to the city you need top accommodation. Many just do not understand this. Why people sneer and do not want top quality accommodation in the city is beyond me. It smells of jealousy.

Who is Sneering? Nobody.

We know we need Quality Accomodation. Just dont want it in you silly looking towers.