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christopherneil
08-08-2010, 05:41 PM
Is this term realted just to RN or Merchant as well?

JMLE
08-08-2010, 05:47 PM
I thought this was another gay pride thread when I read the title.:unibrow:

Prefrab
08-08-2010, 07:22 PM
My grandfather was at sea from the age of 14 (1924 ) till he retired at 65, I remember him telling me that his job was a Donkeyman / Greaser but in the Royal Navy he would have been called a Stoker and that Stoker was the Navy's term for Engine room ratings.
He was under RN terms a few voyages during the war and as such classed as a naval rating for the trip.
Still remember seeing his seamans book, with the stamps of all the ships he served on, plus 3 with "Discharged at sea" stamped across the entry. They were the ships that were torpedoed from under him, and his wages stopped as soon as the ship sank!!!!!!!!!!

Oudeis
08-08-2010, 07:45 PM
I hope this helps...

Rates and ranks of the Royal Navy in ascending order:

* Able Seaman
* Leading Rate

* Petty Officer
* Chief Petty Officer

* Warrant Officer 2
* Warrant Officer 1

* Officer Cadet
* Midshipman

* Sub-Lieutenant
* Lieutenant
* Lieutenant-Commander

* Commander
* Captain
* Commodore

* Rear-Admiral
* Vice-Admiral
* Admiral

* Admiral of the Fleet

az_gila
08-08-2010, 08:44 PM
......
Still remember seeing his seamans book, with the stamps of all the ships he served on, plus 3 with "Discharged at sea" stamped across the entry. They were the ships that were torpedoed from under him, and his wages stopped as soon as the ship sank!!!!!!!!!!

He managed to keep his book...:)

My grandfather's one had an entry in the front about it being a replacement because the original was lost when he was torpedoed off the coast of Spain in WWI....

Don't know about his wages at that time though...

kevin
08-08-2010, 11:57 PM
The term 'stoker' applied to those shovelling coal into coal-fired boilers for steam turbine engines. I've never heard that it only applied to RN personnel, but then I only ever sailed with diesel engines.

captain kong
08-09-2010, 12:27 PM
Stoker was never used when I was at sea, down below the man who fed the fires on a coal burning Steam ship was always known as a Fireman, He fed the furnaces, raked and sliced to get rid of the clinker to keep the fires burning correctly to get the maximum heat out of the coal. The man who carried the coal from the bunkers to the plates where the Fireman worked was known as a Trimmer, later on when ships became oil burning the name Fireman still applied. The Fireman tended the boilers, changing the Tips on the burners every watch, watching the PSI and the water levels.
Greaser was the name given to the man who tended the diesel engines.
I did a Firemans job on one coal burning steam ship and on a T2 tanker as Fireman Water Tender

kevin
08-09-2010, 12:42 PM
Once again, I bow to the superior knowledge of The Mighty Kong!

christopherneil
08-09-2010, 11:45 PM
I have a death certificate with the reference to "rank or profession of father" given as Leading Stoker.

So is this a rank that cover both RN & MN or is it used in both.

I am trying to find out which service this person Robert James Macfarlane was in

Thanks

Chris Neil

Prefrab
08-14-2010, 02:39 PM
He managed to keep his book...:)

My grandfather's one had an entry in the front about it being a replacement because the original was lost when he was torpedoed off the coast of Spain in WWI....

Don't know about his wages at that time though...

Wages ending in the Merchant Navy ( not sure of the Senior Service) historic, a seaman is paid for the term of the voyage, when the voyage ends so does the wage..........There is a story about seamen from the Titanic, who were given 5.00 by a wealthy passenger in the lifeboat they manned after the sinking, They were considered pariahs and one young mans mother when he returned home slammed the door in his face and never spoke to him again.

az_gila
08-14-2010, 04:46 PM
Wages ending in the Merchant Navy ( not sure of the Senior Service) historic, a seaman is paid for the term of the voyage, when the voyage ends so does the wage..........There is a story about seamen from the Titanic, who were given 5.00 by a wealthy passenger in the lifeboat they manned after the sinking, They were considered pariahs and one young mans mother when he returned home slammed the door in his face and never spoke to him again.

Interesting methodology...

Was there any "hazard pay" or equivalent during WW1 of WWII?

Prefrab
08-15-2010, 11:38 AM
Interesting methodology...

Was there any "hazard pay" or equivalent during WW1 of WWII?

My grandad, told me the only extra hazard pay was if you crewed a Tanker particularly aviation fuel .
Alan Burns's book Tribute to the brave goes into detail the way merchant seaman were treated,during wartime :)http://www.sunderlandecho.com/daily/Brave-civilian-sailors-who-lost.3460948.jp

Prefrab
08-15-2010, 11:42 AM
My grandad, told me the only extra hazard pay was if you crewed a Tanker particularly aviation fuel .
Alan Burns's book Tribute to the brave goes into detail the way merchant seaman were treated,during wartime :)http://www.sunderlandecho.com/daily/Brave-civilian-sailors-who-lost.3460948.jp

Should have have said" his tribute to the brave" Sunderland mariners lost at sea........

captain kong
08-15-2010, 11:55 AM
Here is the payments to an AB during WW2

"In 1941 the Merchant Navy paid able-bodied seamen ten pound, twelve shillings and sixpence per month plus a war bonus of ten pounds per month." google

After the war the ship owners tried to stop the war Bonus. This started the 1947 strike by the merchant seamen, led by Billy Hart.

az_gila
08-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Here is the payments to an AB during WW2

"In 1941 the Merchant Navy paid able-bodied seamen ten pound, twelve shillings and sixpence per month plus a war bonus of ten pounds per month." google

After the war the ship owners tried to stop the war Bonus. This started the 1947 strike by the merchant seamen, led by Billy Hart.

Thanks for the info...

Was the strike successful?

Did the 1948 pay remain at 20 and 1/2 pounds?

captain kong
08-15-2010, 09:02 PM
In 1952 when I went to sea, a Deck Boy or Catering Boy was on 10 a month, a 56 hour week, an Efficient Deck Hand, was on 24 a month, EDH was a man who had passed examinations in Seamanship and a Lifeboat certificate, for his ABs certificate, but had an increment of 1 every year for four years, then he became a full Able Seaman on 28 a month, that was a skilled tradesman.
This wage was similar for Stewards and Firemen when they had the sea time in.
Billy Hart in the 1947 strike was demanding 28 a month for ABs.

Trampshipman
09-25-2010, 07:08 PM
Is this term realted just to RN or Merchant as well?

A somewhat delayed reply now I know, but I think the term or title `leading stoker`was strictly Royal Navy. Leastways I most certainly `never ever` heard of stokers in merchant ships. Such men in the MN were simply `firemen` whether in coal or oil burners.

captain kong
09-25-2010, 09:37 PM
Hi Trampshipman here is what I wrote earlier, there were no stokers in the MN only in the RN....

Stoker was never used when I was at sea, down below the man who fed the fires on a coal burning Steam ship was always known as a Fireman, He fed the furnaces, raked and sliced to get rid of the clinker to keep the fires burning correctly to get the maximum heat out of the coal. The man who carried the coal from the bunkers to the plates where the Fireman worked was known as a Trimmer, later on when ships became oil burning the name Fireman still applied. The Fireman tended the boilers, changing the Tips on the burners every watch, watching the PSI and the water levels.
Greaser was the name given to the man who tended the diesel engines.

I did a "Firemans" job on one coal burning steam ship and on a T2 tanker, oil burner as
"Fireman Water Tender "./

confusedone
09-26-2010, 04:39 PM
I thought this was another gay pride thread when I read the title.:unibrow:

haha.

---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 PM ----------

When i was serving in the navy, only around 5 years ago, the term was used then still. Hope that helps!

TeresaBreathnach
04-06-2011, 12:53 PM
My great grandfather's occupation is given as ship's fireman or boilerman between the 1880s and the 1910s - does anyone know if there is a difference between the two?

He was born in Co. Offaly, Ireland but lived in Saltney Street, Liverpool from about the age of 5. He went to sea sometime after 1881, and lived in the east end of London between voyages until his death in the 1930s. My mother said he sailed around the world twice - one by sail and once by steam. I would love to trace his career further - any suggestions as to how I mght go about it? I'm completely confused by the records available. His name was Patrick MacRedmond.

Thanks

Teresa

Oudeis
04-06-2011, 04:25 PM
To get anywhere on the internet perhaps you should first bring together what documents and information you can from family etc.
The names of the ships he sailed on and/or the shipping companies he worked for. Was he ever hospitalised?

This too will help you...

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/researchers/library/research-guides/the-merchant-navy/research-guide-c13-the-merchant-navy-tracing-merchant-seamen-sources-of-information-in-the-national-maritime-museum

TeresaBreathnach
04-07-2011, 01:48 PM
Thanks a million - will certainly look up the link. I have quite alot of info about the family, and have even traced his baptism record in Ireland, but have almost no info about his time at sea. We don't know the names of any ships he served on, and this seems to be the most important bit of info re tracing sailors?

Teresa