This is a really tragic one, happening 99 years ago and the killer was never caught. On 6th January 1908 7 year old Madge Kirby was playing with her friend in Farnworth St when a man asked her to go with him for some sweets. She was never seen alive again. Her body was found on 21st August in Great Newton St, having clearly been removed from its hiding place in a nearby derelict property. Within two weeks of being laid to rest, Madge's father died of a broken heart, having lost his wife just 3 months before Madge disappeared. There'smore information on the following websites:-

http://detectiveandrews.tripod.com/madge.html
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/liverpooltragedy.html

Re: your first link. Does anyone even know who Keith Andrews is ? Or anything about his background or what his 'credentials' are ? Is that the piece where he claims that he'll "leave no stone unturned until he catches the killer of Madge Kirby" ? IIRC, there's a Wiki page about him (self-penned ?) which is unfathomable bilge.

The Kirby case is beyond terrible.

AP.

Hi Steve and AP

First, Steve, thanks for sharing information on this tragic crime with us. Such murders of young children are always sad and unfortunately not confined to that era but still happen today as the Soham case demonstrated.

AP, Keith Andrews is the Merseyside criminologist who is working with Tom Slemen on such matters as the mass grave in Old Swan (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2852&highlight=Mass+Grave+Swan) and the candidacy of Colonel Claude Reignier Conder (http://www.mara.org.uk/reignier_conder.htm) as Jack the Ripper. I know nothing more about him except what I have read in connection with Mr Slemen's involvement in those cases.

Chris

Yes, thanks for the thread and the links SteH. Hadn't heard of this one, very tragic and as in the Jamie Bulger case, it seems there were people who had seen what was going on and did nothing.

AP, Keith Andrews is the Merseyside criminologist who is working with Tom Slemen on such matters as the mass grave in Old Swan (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2852&highlight=Mass+Grave+Swan) and the candidacy of Colonel Claude Reignier Conder (http://www.mara.org.uk/reignier_conder.htm) as Jack the Ripper.

You know as much as I do about him then. I just looked up his Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Andrews_%28criminologist%29) and it's even worse than last time I peeked at it. One thing stood out though. An utterly bizarre last paragraph: "He is currently writing a feature on a crime historian's past, and an in-depth article on a failed one-book 'pulp crime writer' who writes nothing but anonymous emails to famous people. Keith is also working with a television screenwriter on a script about the Cameo Murders, based on the landmark book by Barry Shortall." WTF ?

And I see Slemmo's Wiki entry is currently being considered for complete deletion.

Long live Laurel and Hardy I say...

AP.

Hello AP

If you pull up the "History" for the page for Keith Andrews you get some interesting information posted by people who have questioned what is currently showing. For example, one recent comment, "Warning. This article reads rather like the plug for a book. Jonathan Goodman and others are hardly armchair criminologists. This is a highly coloured piece and should be re-edited. The theory on the Wallace case is interesting but not definitive."

Chris

Hello AP

If you pull up the "History" for this page you get some interesting information posted by people who have questioned what is currently showing. For example, one comment, "Warning. This article reads rather like the plug for a book. Jonathan Goodman and others are hardly armchair criminologists. This is a highly coloured piece and should be re-edited. The theory on the Wallace case is interesting but not definitive."

Chris

Very interesting. Personally, I'd rather that page was left as it was as it speaks volumes.

AP.

A very sad murder case this one.
Only heard of it recently.

Just bumping this one up to the top as it happened 100 years ago yesterday. Wonder if Keith Andrews has many more stones to unturn to find the killer, as the link claims he is determined to do.:rolleyes:

Just bumping this one up to the top as it happened 100 years ago yesterday. Wonder if Keith Andrews has many more stones to unturn to find the killer, as the link claims he is determined to do.:rolleyes:

In this weeks Tom Slemen column in the Merseymart he says Keith Andrews has now tracked down the culprit and will present his findings in the 'near future'. hmmm

In this weeks Tom Slemen column in the Merseymart he says Keith Andrews has now tracked down the culprit and will present his findings in the 'near future'. hmmm

I think he also wrote that on his forum months ago. They'll have picked a name off a list somewhere and concocted a web of twisted half-lies to go with it. And just out of reach of independant verifiability if past efforts are anything to go by. Expect words like "mysterious", "dark", "unexplained" and "nightmarish" to appear in their usual frequency. Oops, I've just forced him to do a complete rewrite ... now where's that thesaurus, eh ?

AP, what is it with u and tom sleman?
do i detect a hint of jelousy

AP, what is it with u and tom sleman?
do i detect a hint of jelousy

What an odd pair of questions to ask when you've only been registered on the site for a few hours :) Must I answer ? In which case, "Nothing" and "No". I'd actually like to see him come on here (in plain sight) and join in with all these little debates which mention him. I do doubt he'd be keen though as he wouldn't be able to delete any difficult or awkward questions as he does on hs own forum. I don't blame the fella, if I were him I'd hide there too.

i told tom what you said and he said your the coward hiding behind a screen name.he said you know his name but u wont give yours.He also told me stuff about you wich explains why you hate him.

i told tom what you said and he said your the coward hiding behind a screen name.he said you know his name but u wont give yours.He also told me stuff about you wich explains why you hate him.

I "hate him" ??? Good gracious, that's way strong and very wide off the mark I'm afraid. It seems that you (and he) have a complete misunderstanding of the situation, if there even is a 'situation' (which there isn't). I post on a very wide range of topics on here, it just seems that every other time I come on I see a TS-related thread has got bumped up for one reason or another and I have an opinion just like everybody else around here and am free to post what I want until told otherwise.

Give the old fella my regards won't you.

AP.

P.S. I'm sorry, did I not bite your bait for long enough ? :)

Hi Steve and AP

First, Steve, thanks for sharing information on this tragic crime with us. Such murders of young children are always sad and unfortunately not confined to that era but still happen today as the Soham case demonstrated.


I have a pretty little girl who was six last month and have never let her out of my sight when with her. I instruct her not to talk to strange people. However a charmer with sweeties and dollies can easily temp a young girl away.