Cranborne Road Murder

[SteH]

In 1951 Beatrice Rimmer was bludgeoned to death in her home, with robbery the supposed motive. Two Mancunians Edward Devlin and Alfred Burns were later hung for the murder after investigations led by Bert Balmer, who would appear to have 'fitted up' George Kelly and Charles Connolly over the Cameo murders.

The evidence against the two accused was largely circumstantial, involving eye witness accounts by people of questionable character and the defendants failure to provide a suitable alibi. No murder weapon or fingerprints were ever found, nor did anyone ever see the them go into the house.

I'm convinced that this is, like the Cameo case, a miscarriage of justice. Here's some links:-

http://www.geocities.com/stevenhortonuk/cranborneroad.html
http://detectiveandrews.tripod.com/cranborne.html

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Steve

Thanks for starting this thread. As you say, it appears to be another miscarriage of justice down to Bert Balmer fitting up a couple of petty criminals for the crime just as in the Cameo case.

Chris

[MissInformed]

what a sad case

[theninesisters]

My mate still lives opposite to the house in question!

[MissInformed]

:)
My mate still lives opposite to the house in question!

get us a pic jona!

[theninesisters]

:)

get us a pic jona!


Of me mates house? :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

[Ged]

No, of the sad case.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi AP and MissInformed

Thanks, AP, for sharing that newscutting with us. As you saw, it is New Brighton-based George Skelly, author of The Cameo Conspiracy, who is writing the book on the Cranborne Road murder. As George told me by email recently, and as related in the cutting, he sees a direct parallel between what happened with George Kelly and Charles Connolly, the two men convicted in the Cameo murders, and the convictions and execution of Burns and Devlin for the murder of Beatrice Rimmer in her Wavertree home. In both cases, the men who were tried and found guilty of the crimes appear to have been "fitted up" for the crimes by the chief Liverpool CID officer, Bert Balmer.

Chris

[steve miller]

Hi Chris do you know how the book by George is progressing?

all the best
Steve

[Ged]

I wonder if it was George Skelly or possibly MarkR from this forum, or even Tom Slemen who rang into Radio City this week when Pete Price had Bernard-Hogan-Howe on the programme. It was in protest at the Police commissionaire wanting to charge £450 for documents on an old murder case being made avaialble for public scrutiny under the freedom of information act.

[AntiPathos]

I wonder if it was George Skelly or possibly MarkR from this forum, or even Tom Slemen who rang into Radio City this week when Pete Price had Bernard-Hogan-Howe on the programme. It was in protest at the Police commissionaire wanting to charge £450 for documents on an old murder case being made avaialble for public scrutiny under the freedom of information act.

Did the caller actually mention this case ? If so, it will almost certainly have been Slem or his sidecar rider, Mr. Andrews (if it were me I wouldn't know which handlebars to grab). If it wasn't this case being talked about, how comes you posted that in this thread ?

[Ged]

Hi there. I bumped into Mr Andrews quite by accident when the Gardens of Stone screening was on at the Olive Mount Community Centre last wednesday. He has a 'Criminologist' sign on his bungalow gate, so I chatted to him for a while and he said they had some 'revelations' about this case and others, I suspect Wallace and the Ripper that he and Slemen were supposed to working on (Liverpool it seems may have run out of ghosts now)- I won't hold my breath.

Hogan-Howe was very suspicious of why someone would want an old case file, he said he had to wary of suspects in an old case delving into what the police actually had/or never had on them.

It transpired that it was someone writing a book about a famous old Liverpool case and this was only one of perhaps three I could think of that was in the news, what with Bert Balmer and his perhaps dodgy methods and the call for justice. This therefore might not be the correct thread in actual fact but if it is being revisited, then it's quite possible that this is the file the caller was on about.

[AntiPathos]

Hi there. I bumped into Mr Andrews quite by accident when the Gardens of Stone screening was on at the Olive Mount Community Centre last wednesday. He has a 'Criminologist' sign on his bungalow gate, so I chatted to him for a while and he said they had some 'revelations' about this case and others...

You chatted to him because he had a 'Criminologist' sign on his driveway ? :p

You know, he and Slem can hint all they like about their revelations regarding this case and others. That's one of their tricks. The fact is: they know nothing. I know people (yes, plural) who have seen the Merseyside Police case files on this murder so anything in them is not a revelation which Andrews or Slem have any power to exclusively hold back or reveal at a time of their choosing. There are people out there with far greater knowledge of Merseyside crimes than this pair claim to have and as have I asked before on here: what have either of them ever exclusively revealed about anything ? Can anyone answer me that ?

My opinion is that Slem is a truly awful writer with a niche market preaching the unbelievable to the unbelievably naive. And, as our own Mr. George on here is well aware, he's been shown to have pilfered his tales from elsewhere (he didn't even hide it very well).

Mr. Andrews, OTOH, is a self-styled criminologist who sees dead rock-stars on gateposts and who was, the last I heard, calling for a pedestrian tunnel to be built under the Mersey so people could pop over to the shops in Birkenhead. That's what we're dealing with here. The sooner this pair of jokers leave criminology to people qualified to write about such matters the better.

Oh, and did you know that every time someone buys a Tom Slemen book that somewhere on Earth a genuine historical researcher dies. It's true.

AP.

[Ged]

I very much agree with you. But in case you think i'm a sad case, I was a little lost at the time and had unknowingly driven past the community centre twice in my search for it, a sign on it would be good. That's when I spotted him and his sign. I asked him if he knew Vincent Burke, a real criminologist, he looked a bit blank and said after a while 'Oh Yes'

I know of course that Slemen's 'revelation' of John Johnstone (sp) being the wallace murderer has been looked at before, as I say, i'm not holding my breath of those two finding anything new.

[AntiPathos]

I very much agree with you. But in case you think i'm a sad case, I was a little lost at the time and had unknowingly driven past the community centre twice in my search for it, a sign on it would be good. That's when I spotted him and his sign. I asked him if he knew Vincent Burke, a real criminologist, he looked a bit blank and said after a while 'Oh Yes'

I know of course that Slemen's 'revelation' of John Johnstone (sp) being the wallace murderer has been looked at before, as I say, i'm not holding my breath of those two finding anything new.

Don't worry Ged mate. If it helps, I know you're not one of the soft ones :) Evidently, there's something of a feud 'twixt Slem/Andrews and Burke so Andrews' face must have been priceless when you asked him had he heard of Vincent :) Pity you (probably) didn't add the "real Criminologist" bit in real life, for extra effect. I would have done...

The Slem/Andrews theory of the Johnstones killing Julia Wallace is of course completely true because they are "credited with solving the case in Arabella McIntyre Brown's book, Liverpool: The First 1000 years." And this feat of enormous accreditation now ranks them above "other historians and crime fiction writers such as Agatha Christie, Dorothy L Sayers and Raymond Chandler." (Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Andrews_%28criminologist%29))

Also on that page you'll see this inconspicuous gabble (which I'm reminded that I've mentioned before on here):

"He is currently writing a feature on a crime historian's past, and an in-depth article on a failed one-book 'pulp crime writer' who writes nothing but anonymous emails to famous people. Keith is also working with a television screenwriter on a script about the Cameo Murders, based on the landmark book by Barry Shortall."

Which seems to be a dig at none other than Mr. Burke and then a double (or does it count triple ?) dig at Mr. George Skelly. Baffling...

...except of course they're in something of a minor panic knowing that he has a Rimmer Murder book in the works (back 'on thread' at last !) and they've hinted at one of their own in the pipe-line (or should that be -dream ?).

Be very assured that there is not the remotest chance that Slem and Andrews would (or even could) publish anything on the Cranborne Road murder first as they're palpably worried that George might know a lot more than they do and would rather have the opportunity to piggyback onto his research once his book is out anyway. And then accuse a dead neighbour...

[Ged]

Thanks for the link, very interesting. If I didn't know better, i'd say the wiki page was written by the old chap himself - he certainly didn't look anything like his bouncer pic :unibrow:

So there was I, talking to such a famous crime solver - not - ha ha.

I like the way they mention Parry was a main suspect then almost as an aside then mention WHW was also blamed.

[AntiPathos]

Thanks for the link, very interesting. If I didn't know better, i'd say the wiki page was written by the old chap himself - he certainly didn't look anything like his bouncer pic :unibrow:

So there was I, talking to such a famous crime solver - not - ha ha.

...

Just as surely as Slem writes his own Wiki page, Andrews surely has touched his own up from time to time. The editing history of both is fascinating and sometimes hilarious.

Just to explain my 'rock-stars and gateposts' accusation further up:

http://www.xprojectmagazine.com/archives/strange/jlface.html

Just the kind of thing you'd expect from a serious criminologist, eh ?

Google his name and Jonbenet Ramsey for some very interesting reading.

AP.

[SteH]

Ged - does Andrews really have that big moustache, or is it just a false one he uses to make people take notice of his articles.

[birdseye]

Looking at Wikipedia last year, I noticed that there was no mention of the Wallace case anywhere in it's pages and decided to create an entry. It sat there unmolested until quite recently when, checking on it I noticed two lines had been added at the bottom by someone unknown. They referred to a theory by a Keith Andrews that the person responsible for the murder of Julia Wallace was none other than her next door neighbour. I had finished my entry by saying that nobody else had been charged with the murder, other that the reprieved Wallace and that therefore the murder remained unsolved.
I was pretty irritated at this addition of an unproven theory ( which is a long way from new) because it implied that this Andrews character had solved the murder. I found an entry for him in Wikipedia and he has attempted to confirm his theory by quoting it's inclusion in a book by someone called Arabella McIntyre Brown, whoever she is.
As this is simply a theory and not sustainable by evidence or a signed confession, it has no place in an entry based on known facts and I attempted to remove the offending lines, but the entry has been padlocked by the admin. I wonder why. I have done a couple of other Wikipedia entries on Liverpool murders and await their re-editing by whoever did the Wallace one.

[AntiPathos]

Looking at Wikipedia last year, I noticed that there was no mention of the Wallace case anywhere in it's pages and decided to create an entry. It sat there unmolested until quite recently when, checking on it I noticed two lines had been added at the bottom by someone unknown. They referred to a theory by a Keith Andrews that the person responsible for the murder of Julia Wallace was none other than her next door neighbour. I had finished my entry by saying that nobody else had been charged with the murder, other that the reprieved Wallace and that therefore the murder remained unsolved.
I was pretty irritated at this addition of an unproven theory ( which is a long way from new) because it implied that this Andrews character had solved the murder. I found an entry for him in Wikipedia and he has attempted to confirm his theory by quoting it's inclusion in a book by someone called Arabella McIntyre Brown, whoever she is.
As this is simply a theory and not sustainable by evidence or a signed confession, it has no place in an entry based on known facts and I attempted to remove the offending lines, but the entry has been padlocked by the admin. I wonder why. I have done a couple of other Wikipedia entries on Liverpool murders and await their re-editing by whoever did the Wallace one.

The W.H .Wallace page is in a state of "semi-protection", (disables editing from anonymous accounts and those accounts fewer than four days old). So register, wait 96 hours and edit it as much as ye see fit. If you want, you could even consider yourself as it's gatekeeper :)

Incidentally, now that you've made me go look at Wiki again (I generally don't bother because I'm there all night when I do), I note with some sadness that Oliver Hardy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Andrews_%28criminologist%29) is up for possible deletion and meanwhile, Stan Laurel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tomslemen) just got himself banned from editing after barely being registered for two hours. But is one of his edits quite telling though ? He edited out a mention of his moustache-faced buddy on the W.H. Wallace page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Herbert_Wallace) but was happy to leave the last paragraph as "Despite much theorising as to the identity of the murderer, the case remains unsolved." Hadn't he 'cracked' this one ? Surely world-renowned crime expert Arabella McIntyre-Brown couldn't have made a bad call in her book on Liverpool's first thousand years ? How could it be ? Uh-oh, there goes my sarcasm again. I really should get that looked at...

[Ged]

Ged - does Andrews really have that big moustache, or is it just a false one he uses to make people take notice of his articles.

Ste. He did have a moustache but it wan't black anymore. How did he ever drink soup with that, that's the real mystery here.

[PhilipG]

Ste. He did have a moustache but it wan't black anymore. How did he ever drink soup with that, that's the real mystery here.

With a straw?

[OldieButGoodie]

Just found this via GOOGLE- Met Mr. George Skelly last week and had a good ol' natter about the old times. I know him from way back - from the Cavern days. I listened to him talk about this case for a half an hour or so and he's adamant that he knows who the real killer is and that he's going to name him in his upcoming book. Eventually he told me the name - via a whisper! - but I'm not sure I should say anything on here! In fact I'm quite sure that I should not! I actually met this bloke personally on a few occasions and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he had ever bludgeoned someone to death. Just such a bloody shame he was never caught for this one before he went on to do what he did subsequently. George said his research was "spine-tinglingly" lucky - I think he'd had a few bevvies by then as that can't be a real word. But I think it might be worth hanging on for a Second/Updated edition as there are some things which he won't be able to say while certain individuals are still alive. I suggested he should just publish the lot and see what happens but he's in promises to people who he interviewed and who have confided major stuff so there you go. Whether this one goes back to the court of appeal for a re-adjudication remains to be seen but if it does it'll be a proud day for the truth. The two hanged are still buried at Walton - in the same grave would you believe - so ultimately a Christian burial good and proper would be about the best 'happy ending' this story could get. Amen to that.

Hello to all on the forum anyway.

[Kev]

Hello to all on the forum anyway.

Hello :PDT11

[chippie]

Hello :PDT11

Hey oldie, you,ve given me goose pimples.:ninja:

[SisterMoon]

I would be very interested if you had any further contacts about the Burns & Devlyn case, as Alfred Burns was my mums cousin. I have been looking in to my family history and come across this skeleton. It seems to all be a bit hush hush in the family, and that alone has lit an immediate interest to me.
Many thanks for the information you have put on here.
Donna

[DaisyChains]

I would be very interested if you had any further contacts about the Burns & Devlyn case, as Alfred Burns was my mums cousin. I have been looking in to my family history and come across this skeleton. It seems to all be a bit hush hush in the family, and that alone has lit an immediate interest to me.
Many thanks for the information you have put on here.
Donna

Fascinating !
I hope you find out what you're looking for.

[Waterways]

Fascinating !
I hope you find out what you're looking for.

I hope justice is done. Incidentally the Cameo and Cranborne murders were only a matter of yards apart being in adjacent roads.

[steve miller]

Donna please cjheck your private messages
I have something you might be interested in
Also you may want to contact George Skelly he may be interested in your family history

[macateb]

Its quite interesting all this stuff about 7 Cranborne Road. I grew up near there and didn't know all that much about it until reading this thread.

I do find it funny however that the link from the first post http://detectiveandrews.tripod.com/cranborne.html
has the photo "Keith Andrews in Cranborne Road, Wavertree".
Someone should tell him he's looking in the wrong place. He's standing in what looks like Salisbury Road. :lol:

[Chris48]

Donna please cjheck your private messages
I have something you might be interested in
Also you may want to contact George Skelly he may be interested in your family history

Steve, check your PMs

[Chris48]

I really am looking forward to George Skelly's new book about the Cranbourne road murder. His "Cameo Conspiracy" was a fine book and completely captured my imagination. He is a fine author and the Cameo book is now hard to find . There is actually one on the net for sale at £130 !

[Chris48]

Apparently awards such as the Kings medal and the OBE cannot be stripped from a person posthumously as they no longer own the award when they die. That is straight from the Cabinet Office that awards them in the first place. I don't agree with it as many a headstone will have details of a persons awards and they will be remembered as to having received them and for the reasons why.

[ChrisGeorge]

Its quite interesting all this stuff about 7 Cranborne Road. I grew up at No.8 and didn't know all that much about it until reading this thread.

I do find it funny however that the link from the first post http://detectiveandrews.tripod.com/cranborne.html
has the photo "Keith Andrews in Cranborne Road, Wavertree".
Someone should tell him he's looking in the wrong place. He's standing in what looks like Salisbury Road. :lol:

I like the G. Gordon Liddy moustache. :unibrow:

[Chris48]

Alice Rimmer lying in her hallway after the attack which left her dead. Not gory I hope you'll agree but shocking all the same. If it wasn't Devlin and Burns who done this to her then let's all hope that, one day, we all get some truth and can perhaps find out really who did it. Not least for her relatives. I know someone who knew Mrs Rimmer's lad in later life. He's gone though. Perhaps he knows what happened to his Mum now.

Does anyone know what happened to Mrs Rimmers son Thomas? He had been in the Police and left but was supposed to have re-joined. When did he die etc?

[burkhilly]

I'd heard of this case previously - although not in great detail. The parallels with the Cameo case are unreal. I cannot wait for GK's book to come out on this case, after which time these two young men will hopefully be pardoned.

Does anyone know when the book's due for release?

Thanks guys.

[Chris48]

I'd heard of this case previously - although not in great detail. The parallels with the Cameo case are unreal. I cannot wait for GK's book to come out on this case, after which time these two young men will hopefully be pardoned.

Does anyone know when the book's due for release?

Thanks guys.

George is still working on it along with another aspect of the case.

[burkhilly]

George is still working on it along with another aspect of the case.



Thanks Chris48. Keep us updated - knowing the research that George puts into his investigations, it'll be a few years before we see the book. I for one can't wait.

[Harryboy]

I'm only new to this forum. but nevertheless rHow do we know Devlin and Burns were innocent? Who says so? Where's the evidence? They were after all found guilty by a jury of 12 people.
Can anyone prove they were inniocent?

[Famous Scouser]

Where is Detective Andrews. He's the expert, isn't he?

[Harryboy]

Last I heard of him he was posing for the camera in Salisbury Road thinking it was Cranborne Road! Maybe he's still lost? Still waiting, by the way, for his and his mate Slemen's revelations about who done the murder and how they solved it!

[burkhilly]

I'm only new to this forum. but nevertheless rHow do we know Devlin and Burns were innocent? Who says so? Where's the evidence? They were after all found guilty by a jury of 12 people.
Can anyone prove they were inniocent?



I know a little about this - both men were in their 20s, and hanged for the murder of a middle aged woman in Liverpool. The Lead Police Officer on the case was our "friend" Herbert Balmer. There is apparently no forensic evidence that link the men to the victim. In fact there is evidence to suggest that both the men were in Bolton or Manchester committing a burgulary at the time the murder occurred. There is a lot of evidence which suggests the two young men are innocent. I haven't a view one way or another at this point in time - but if the Cameo Murders are anything to go on............need I say more!!

[Famous Scouser]

.

[Harryboy]

I know a little about this - both men were in their 20s, and hanged for the murder of a middle aged woman in Liverpool. The Lead Police Officer on the case was our "friend" Herbert Balmer. There is apparently no forensic evidence that link the men to the victim. In fact there is evidence to suggest that both the men were in Bolton or Manchester committing a burgulary at the time the murder occurred. There is a lot of evidence which suggests the two young men are innocent. I haven't a view one way or another at this point in time - but if the Cameo Murders are anything to go on............need I say more!!



Yes Burkhilly, but what and where is that evidence that you say suggests their innocence?

[burkhilly]

I don't have an opinion on this case because I know only very basic details. I was just briefly letting you know what I've read on the case. I know that George Skelly is currently writing a book on the case and believes that the two men were innocent. I shall wait and read George's book before I have an opinion on the case.

[Harryboy]

Well, if Skelly's on the case, we probably will find out what really happened, and discover that these two men, like Kelly and Connolly, were innocent.
After all, unlike Shortall in his book (who said Connolly was involved in the Cameo murder) , Skelly turned out to be right.

[Famous Scouser]

I wonder if there is a family waiting in the wings and rubbing their hands together in anticipation in this case too.

[jane2]

:handclap::
I wonder if there is a family waiting in the wings and rubbing their hands together in anticipation in this case too. why dont you all just ask skelly, if there is any family he seems to know, who gets what and you all seem to take his word ,:rolleyes:

[jess]

hi jane 2

perhaps you have also read the sites as i have, and think it all seem to be how right skelly is on everything, do our friends on these sites know that in order to write these books the author has to reasearch

[jane2]

hi jess am i right in thinking that authors of the books would also have spoken to family members. it seems that reading between the lines there must of been some kind of falling out with the kelly family and skelly, it would be interesting if any one knows if this is the case .

[Harryboy]

:handclap:: why dont you all just ask skelly, if there is any family he seems to know, who gets what and you all seem to take his word ,:rolleyes:

Whoah! folks.
All I said was Skelly will probably find out the truth about Devlin & Burns innocence, like he discovered Kelly and Connolly's innocence in the Cameo case. And that, Shortall obviously didn't find out their innocence because in HIS book HE still maintained that Connolly was involved in the Cameo case. And that not only Skelly proved him wrong but also the Court of Appeal in 2003, when they clearedd K&C. As far as research is concerned, I believe Skelly spent years researching the Cameo case which included interviews with Kelly's relatives. Or at least that what was in the Echo a few weeks ago.

[Famous Scouser]

Interesting how Jane 2 and Jess are both new to the forum, both dont use capital letters for their usernames or in their post, and dont use questions marks after asking questions. Amazing!

[jane2]

:rolleyes:Hi yes i am new to this site, but did not know i had to ask anyone for permission to quote or reply to anyone on it ? also did not know it was a education site? I HAVE READ ALL OF YOUR QUOTES ON kELLY CONNOLLY SITE,and you all seem to know everythink about there familys. I think you have all read the book :CAMEO CONSPIRACY: and quote your findings on this.Also it was not Skelly who cleared Kelly and Connolly it was the courts. Ialso would like to point out the quote the famous scouser made no 47, Dont tell me that Skelly done all that research for years published a book and now is doing a script for a film and not going to get anythink out of it.I wonder if he is waiting in the wings rubbing his hands together. AFTER ALL HE IS HE DETECTIVE AND EXPERT IN ALL THIS ISNT HE???.

[Famous Scouser]

No hes not going to get anythin(k) out of it at all. Yes he does know everythin(k) about the Cameo as he has lived and breathed it for 60 years as his brother was involved and was with George Kelly at the time he was supposed to be murdering people. The "Cameo conspiracy" told the truth and in his research, George Skelly and Lou Santangeli found the statement that ultimately cleared your relative. George Skelly IS the world renowned expert on the Cameo case in the absence of George Kelly and Charlie Connolly.

[jane2]

:shock:There,s another mistake you have made, as i am not a family member of either of these men or have any conection with any of there family,s. just having my say like your self and others as you all seem to know so much about it.Or ave i hit a sore point and are you the detective and the expert in this case.?????

[Famous Scouser]

Nope, not me but I do have a huge interest in the case and particularly Balmer. So thats 1 mistake each.

[burkhilly]

I take an interest in the Cameo Murders.............and to a certain extent the Cranbourne Road murder.

The Cameo Murder needs to be discussed on that thread not this one. However, I too must defend George Skelly, because without his research and consequently the book, the Court of Appeal would never have quashed the convictions.

[Harryboy]

:rolleyes:Hi yes i am new to this site, but did not know i had to ask anyone for permission to quote or reply to anyone on it ? also did not know it was a education site? I HAVE READ ALL OF YOUR QUOTES ON kELLY CONNOLLY SITE,and you all seem to know everythink about there familys. I think you have all read the book :CAMEO CONSPIRACY: and quote your findings on this.Also it was not Skelly who cleared Kelly and Connolly it was the courts. Ialso would like to point out the quote the famous scouser made no 47, Dont tell me that Skelly done all that research for years published a book and now is doing a script for a film and not going to get anythink out of it.I wonder if he is waiting in the wings rubbing his hands together. AFTER ALL HE IS HE DETECTIVE AND EXPERT IN ALL THIS ISNT HE???.

Jane, I think you are being very unfair to Skelly. He is obviously a writer who is intensely concerned about miscarriages of justice. And his book, as Burkilly rightly says, WAS instrumental in clearing the names of Kelly and Connolly. His friend Santangeli did it through the courts by submitting the vital statement of the perjurer Robert Graham which won the appeals. But if you read The Cameo Conspiracy properly, (p.96)you will see that it was Skelly who first discovered that statement and made public Graham's lies - the lies which sent an innocent man to the gallows. I think we should all thank him, including the Kelly family and their friends. And if he made any money from his book, why shouldnt he? As the adage goes, "The labourer is worth his hire". Why are people like you so ungracious and so ungrateful?i

[jane2]

:disgust:Harryboy If you look on this site and see that other members quote the case of KELLY and CONNOLLY. and if you looked at what yourself and others have quoted about the familys, as like myself dont know them , but to say the things you all do say. I think you should all be a shamed . i see that there is a close family member on this site and it mustbe very hurtfull to see they way you all call them . the family,s had the stigma of this for years and now have a lot of people calling them i think that is what is unfair. I WONDER WHEN SKELLYS NEW BOOK COMES AROUNDYOU WILL KNOW THAT FAMILY SO WELL TO CALL??????????????:):)

[Harryboy]

Jane, I ask you again, why are people like you so ungracious and ungrateful?
If you are really concerned about injustice you should applaud people like George Skelly, who, rather than sitting on their backsides or gossiping in pubs, actually decide to do get up and do something about it How can you criticise a man like that, who is apparently currently trying to clear Devlin & Burns , who he feels were also wrongly convicted and hanged for murder 2 year after George Kelly?
As far as my comments go: I wasn't having a go at anyone's familiy. I was simply quoting what actually happened in the Court of Appeal, according to the official records. i.e. Kelly's daughter asking the Court - via her barrister - for her travelling expenses immediately after her father being cleared of a 50 year-old murder. I think most people would find that most unseemly to say the least. And I make no apologies for repeating my view that if it had been my father, for whom I had been (allegedly) campaigning for 50 years, I would gladly have WALKED all the way home to Liverpool!

[Famous Scouser]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Kelly family HB, you wont get anywhere with them. Its well documented how they treated George Skelly and Lou Santangeli. They have also mentioned the "C" word (compensation) themselves in the media and they tried to rubbish my claim about the state of George Kellys grave even denied the location of where the poor man lies. How bad is that?

Suffice to say, when George Skelly and Lou Santangeli reach heaven, I reckon George Kelly will be there looking over St Peters shoulder as he opens the pearly gates. And when he makes eye contact with each one of them, he will probably say "Thanks mate". That would do for me.

[Harryboy]

Been reading up on the Devlin & Burns case, and it says they drank in two pubs, both supposedly by the Grafton in West Derby Road. One was known as - "The Catholic House", and the other as "the Irish House". But I seem to remember the "Irish House" was in Pembroke Place on the corner of Brownlow Street, near the Royal Infirmary.
And I think the pub nicknamed "The Catholic House" was around the Vauxhall Road - Bevington Bush area. But I could be wrong. Can anybody put me straight or are you all too young to remember?
I wonder if anyone could put this query on one of the other threads, as I still don't know my way around these threads properly yet.

[Ged]

So many pub nicknames. There was a Holy House which was the Newsham on the corner of Scotland Road and Newsham Street near to St. Anthonys but without consulting Freddy O'Connors pub books and hoping he points out nicknames now and again, i'm not sure.