Photographer's Rights?

[snappel]

Don't know if anyone here as experience of this, and I'm more or less worked out I'm going to handle it, but I thought I'd see what others have to say.

A local Sunday paper (not in this area) found some of my pictures on a webforum, cut off the bit with my copyright notice and printed them in the paper (allegedly - I haven't actually seen the print yet). They then put a summarised article on their webpage, with nine of my pictures all with the copyright notice cut off.

Clearly this isn't on, and together with a couple of other people in the same situation, we're working out a plan.

I'm trying to find out what the going rate is for a photo printed in a paper or on an online news article for a profit-making local newspaper. Clearly they have breached my natural copyright of the photos, but there are loop-holes they can exploit, such as 'Prove you took them' and 'It was in the public's best interests to publish them'.

Either way, they're not escaping without a fight. Any advice or ideas appreciated thanks.

[Ged]

I'm no expert but if you have negatives or can prove that your pics were on your website or a website with your knowledge and acceptance on a certain date that predates the newspapers article then you have solid evidence. ALso I expect part of the picture will still exist behind your copyright logo on your pics which will prove you haven't doctored them afterwards. I've often thought that some of these little logo's in the corner could be clip arted out or edited off. Look at Gerard's photos with RGF which sometimes carry vintage 57 too, they'd be hard to pass off as your own so that's the way to do it.

[snappel]

Yes, I thought about that. I have full-res originals, plus evidence that they were posted on another forum first. In fact, they stole some of the forum owner's pictures too!

[theninesisters]

Whenever I've had to go down the legal route - I've done it by myself with a letter which doesn't just sound posh, but I always add something along the lines of 'with my experience in the Legal Profession' ...and then really go off on one highlighting copyright issues. (my experience is actually nowt). :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

Never make any threats, just be polite about the whole thing and leave the ball in their court.

They don't know you at all so you really can be who you want to be in the letter. Put down some sort of title too of your 'business' so they don't just think you're jo-public but make sure you write to the Editor in person with 'Private and Confidential' at the top of the envelope.

[victorialush]

I would go and see a solicitor.

[steveb]

Hi
make sure that you have the origionals, full frame clearly showing the
copyright notice. Write to the editor stating your case and ask were
they got them from, more than likely off the web. Tell him in no uncertain
terms what you propose to do unless you get payment and credit for the pic,s
I did this and got £25 per pic and also they printed an apology, you had to look for it..
Good luck

steve

[Max]

I remember Scouserdave saying he got 300 quid off the council for his pics being used.

Man how many did they use for you to get that much?:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Sloyne]

Himake sure that you have the origionals, full frame clearly showing the copyright notice.Very sound advice Steve. I have had a few incidents of my pictures being used without my permission all, but one, have been settled to my satisfaction by writing to the company using the image. In fact one of the pictures I have posted on 'Flckr' was illegally used by a travel magazine. I contacted them, they made me an offer, I refused the offer, paid a lawyer $350.00CAD to send them a letter then received a second offer which I accepted.

[steveb]

Very sound advice Steve. I have had a few incidents of my pictures being used without my permission all, but one, have been settled to my satisfaction by writing to the company using the image. In fact one of the pictures I have posted on 'Flckr' was illegally used by a travel magazine. I contacted them, they made me an offer, I refused the offer, paid a lawyer $350.00CAD to send them a letter then received a second offer which I accepted.

Hi
yes most times, unless some obscure publication, the legals need not
be involved. As I said got £25 per pic, and they used 4 plus credit so
I was happy.

steveb

[Gerard]

I would get a Solicitors letter off to them snappel,get your brief to ask them to produce proof of ownership from the Photographer they reckon took them,I dont think they've got a leg to stand on as you have the Negs and Earlier photos with your Copyright mark on them,I put my Markings a bit further up the Photo so they cant be Cropt,This does'nt look nice I know but you still have the Untouched Originals..
Another Thing I do is put all my Photos with my marking on them on a DVD and post it to myself and leave it unopened,I then have a Date stamped on the Envelope showing I owned them at a particular time,In your case it would be up to these people to prove they owned them before that Date,
I dont think you will need to do this as you have the Negatives,but I'd do it just to be safe mate.

[Sloyne]

Another Thing I do is put all my Photos with my marking on them on a DVD and post it to myself and leave it unopened,I then have a Date stamped on the Envelope showing I owned them at a particular time.What a great idea, thanks for sharing it.

[theninesisters]

Don't know if anyone here as experience of this, and I'm more or less worked out I'm going to handle it, but I thought I'd see what others have to say.

A local Sunday paper (not in this area) found some of my pictures on a webforum, cut off the bit with my copyright notice and printed them in the paper (allegedly - I haven't actually seen the print yet). They then put a summarised article on their webpage, with nine of my pictures all with the copyright notice cut off.

Clearly this isn't on, and together with a couple of other people in the same situation, we're working out a plan.

I'm trying to find out what the going rate is for a photo printed in a paper or on an online news article for a profit-making local newspaper. Clearly they have breached my natural copyright of the photos, but there are loop-holes they can exploit, such as 'Prove you took them' and 'It was in the public's best interests to publish them'.

Either way, they're not escaping without a fight. Any advice or ideas appreciated thanks.

Just one thing mate - if they're photo's of a particular site that you've not gained permission to be in then I wouldn't explore this any further. For the few quid you could gain, claiming copyright on photo's that put you in the light of tresspass wouldn't do you any good.

[Max]

Some t**s used my pics on a youtube video without my permission so I easily got them removed by showing my photobucket link and that they belonged on my photobucket.

I also found a copyright sign on his other video and let them know about that and they removed that too!

Youtube Is the easiest site to get your pics or vids off If you own them.

[Gerard]

What a great idea, thanks for sharing it.

My pleasure sloyne,put a little note in as well before you send it to yourself explaining what your doing with the date on.. just in case the Date Stamping on the Envelope is a bit faded or wears with time.

[Gerard]

Some t**s used my pics on a youtube video without my permission so I easily got them removed by showing my photobucket link and that they belonged on my photobucket.

I also found a copyright sign on his other video and let them know about that and they removed that too!

Youtube Is the easiest site to get your pics or vids off If you own them.

Good f' you Maxie Lad..

[snappel]

For the few quid you could gain, claiming copyright on photo's that put you in the light of tresspass wouldn't do you any good.It's more the principle than the money that bothers me. This is exactly why they're stolen the pictures - because they'll assume we won't want to make a fuss. However, no criminal activity has taken place, and so my legal rights are not affected.

[steveb]

My pleasure sloyne,put a little note in as well before you send it to yourself explaining what your doing with the date on.. just in case the Date Stamping on the Envelope is a bit faded or wears with time.
Even better, put a readme txt file fully dated and catalogued on the actual
cd

steve

[snappel]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I've taken things a step forward and I'll let you know how I get on.

[scouserdave]

Snappel, just catching up with this thread. Pull a number out your head and send an invoice to the publishers. £300 pound is a reasonable amount, but if you think your (cracking) photos deserve more, then up the figure. It's their problem, not your's. They will pay up eventually.:PDT_Piratz_26:

[john]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

http://www.bl.uk/services/information/copyrightfaq.html

http://www.tasi.ac.uk/advice/managing/copyright.html

http://www.tasi.ac.uk/advice/managing/copyright_faq.html

[petecarr]

NUJ Fees Guide (http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/phregrat.html) and Photographers rights (http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php). Nice to meet you last night :)

[FKoE]

Question for any tech-heads: Is there a way of embedding a 'copyright' or brand within,for example say a couple of pixels ?

[scouserdave]

You can digitally embed a watermark. Paint Shop Pro has a function. But honestly, don't pfaff around, just invoice the sods.

[MarkA]

Question for any tech-heads: Is there a way of embedding a 'copyright' or brand within,for example say a couple of pixels ?

If you have any photo software on your pc, view your photo, make a minor change, i.e. initials or a symbol in a similar colour to the part where you're making the change and then do a 'save as' calling it something different to what it's called now. That way you'll have the original and a marked copy.

[FKoE]

Nice one MarkA... :handclap:

[snappel]

In this case they just cut the watermark off! But it's not really an issue. I have the original full-size images as they came off the camera, and so I am the undisputed copyright holder. Therefore they have to pay.

[Gerard]

In this case they just cut the watermark off! But it's not really an issue. I have the original full-size images as they came off the camera, and so I am the undisputed copyright holder. Therefore they have to pay.


Yeahhhhhhhh....Cough up...

[bigpab]

Question for any tech-heads: Is there a way of embedding a 'copyright' or brand within,for example say a couple of pixels ?

If your using photoshop or elements you can use the digimarc filter(located in the drop down filter menu) to place an invisable watermark/copyright on you pictures. You can also use this to check if there are any invisable watermarks/copyrights on any pictures you might have found(?) Not that you would of course.

[bigpab]

Don't know if anyone here as experience of this, and I'm more or less worked out I'm going to handle it, but I thought I'd see what others have to say.

A local Sunday paper (not in this area) found some of my pictures on a webforum, cut off the bit with my copyright notice and printed them in the paper (allegedly - I haven't actually seen the print yet). They then put a summarised article on their webpage, with nine of my pictures all with the copyright notice cut off.

Clearly this isn't on, and together with a couple of other people in the same situation, we're working out a plan.

I'm trying to find out what the going rate is for a photo printed in a paper or on an online news article for a profit-making local newspaper. Clearly they have breached my natural copyright of the photos, but there are loop-holes they can exploit, such as 'Prove you took them' and 'It was in the public's best interests to publish them'.

Either way, they're not escaping without a fight. Any advice or ideas appreciated thanks.

If your pictures are digital then you could use the exif data to prove when and where they were taken with what camera ect,ect.

[petecarr]

To be honest, I don't know anyone who uses the digimark thing. Any photograph you take is already protected by copyright law. Its proving that you took it thats the important thing. What you can do is embed copyright and contact information into an image (http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/22319.html). If you put them online always watermark them with your name somehow. People will always rip off your work, fact of life. No-one cares about copyright online.

[scouserdave]

If your pictures are digital then you could use the exif data to prove when and where they were taken with what camera ect,ect.
Not if you copy and paste the pic into a new selection in Photoshop. You lose all the exif data

[marie]

This is a web of the great French photographer Arnaud Frich.
There are a good guide of to take a panorama´s photo.

http://www.arnaudfrichphoto.com/menu.htm

[snappel]

Thanks, but we were actually talking about copyright law...

As Pete says, and as my first post testifies, journos will rip off your photos regardless. Mine were clearly copyright marked, but they just cut the watermark off. This is happening lots right now, especially in the urbex community. The idiot journos think we won't press for photo payments because they think we've committed a crime. They think that us trespassing means it's ok to steal and print out photos.

It's rubbish, pure rubbish. As it happens, the newspaper involved in this dispute (see first post) have agreed to my terms and to pay me in full. As soon as you take a photo, the copyright is yours. As Pete says though, the problem can be proving you took it. In my case I have full-res originals. I'm not about to start ****-arsing about with EXIF data or anything else - if someone wants to use my images they can pay me or deal with the Small Claims Court.

[bigpab]

Don't know if anyone here as experience of this, and I'm more or less worked out I'm going to handle it, but I thought I'd see what others have to say.

A local Sunday paper (not in this area) found some of my pictures on a webforum, cut off the bit with my copyright notice and printed them in the paper (allegedly - I haven't actually seen the print yet). They then put a summarised article on their webpage, with nine of my pictures all with the copyright notice cut off.

Clearly this isn't on, and together with a couple of other people in the same situation, we're working out a plan.

I'm trying to find out what the going rate is for a photo printed in a paper or on an online news article for a profit-making local newspaper. Clearly they have breached my natural copyright of the photos, but there are loop-holes they can exploit, such as 'Prove you took them' and 'It was in the public's best interests to publish them'.

Either way, they're not escaping without a fight. Any advice or ideas appreciated thanks.

Did you ever find out what the going rate is for pictures?

[bigpab]

Maybe you dont want to **** arse around with exif data ect but it might strengthen your case?

[petecarr]

Not if you copy and paste the pic into a new selection in Photoshop. You lose all the exif data

Which I recently heard is illegal.


Did you ever find out what the going rate is for pictures?

Its listed here (http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/photo.html)

[Max]

Its listed here (http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/photo.html)

A god like fee for going rates!:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[bigpab]

I now know how much to charge in future thanks guys!

[snappel]

Finally today I was paid in full, two months after sending the invoice. It's been a bit of a battle, but it was worth it - I'm just placing an order for a load of new camera kit!

Remember, if a commercial organisation prints or otherwises uses your photos without permission, it's copyright theft, and you're entitled to payment, regardless of whether or not you trespassed to obtain the images. As long as your fee is reasonable, you can ask for what you want. If they make you an offer, double it and tell them it includes compensation for unauthorised use.

I've got a collection of wordy letter examples that seemed to have done the trick, plus I've been involved in some other claims. I'm no lawyer, but if someone wants some advice on this kind of situation I'll do my best to help. I've found it's best to be firm but polite, unthreatening and to know your rights.

[Max]

The rates for 600 x 800 pics are great!

http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/phonlrat.html

[Welsby]

Don't know if anyone here as experience of this, and I'm more or less worked out I'm going to handle it, but I thought I'd see what others have to say.

A local Sunday paper (not in this area) found some of my pictures on a webforum, cut off the bit with my copyright notice and printed them in the paper (allegedly - I haven't actually seen the print yet). They then put a summarised article on their webpage, with nine of my pictures all with the copyright notice cut off.

Clearly this isn't on, and together with a couple of other people in the same situation, we're working out a plan.

I'm trying to find out what the going rate is for a photo printed in a paper or on an online news article for a profit-making local newspaper. Clearly they have breached my natural copyright of the photos, but there are loop-holes they can exploit, such as 'Prove you took them' and 'It was in the public's best interests to publish them'.

Either way, they're not escaping without a fight. Any advice or ideas appreciated thanks.

I have a question, which is opposite to your question snappel.

I'm writing a book about my mother & her family who lived around the "Little Itay" area of Liverpool between the wars. I have found a photo of the Old Courts where they lived (N? 8, Court, Comus Street) on a website and also another photograph of Berry's Pawnshop. I don't want to infringe any copyright. But, I would like to use these two photos in my book & obviously give credit & recognition to the photographer or the website where they originated from. Trouble is I can't remember which Liverpool website I found them on!

Would appreciate any advice on how to go about obtaining permission to use these two photos & which website they could be from?


Thanks

W

[ItsaZappathing]

I have a question, which is opposite to your question snappel.

I'm writing a book about my mother & her family who lived around the "Little Itay" area of Liverpool between the wars. I have found a photo of the Old Courts where they lived (N? 8, Court, Comus Street) on a website and also another photograph of Berry's Pawnshop. I don't want to infringe any copyright. But, I would like to use these two photos in my book & obviously give credit & recognition to the photographer or the website where they originated from. Trouble is I can't remember which Liverpool website I found them on!

Would appreciate any advice on how to go about obtaining permission to use these two photos & which website they could be from?


Thanks

W

My Debz may be able to help you with that . :PDT11

[Ged]

They could well be off my website as I have a Berry's pawnshop pic in my private collection. The comus st court pic though (I know which one you're on about) will be copyright of the Liverpool records office from whom you will have to seek permission.

My site is below, the comus st pic is on the pre war slums page and the Berry's one is on the psot war b&w pics page.

I look forward to seeing your book.

[Welsby]

They could well be off my website as I have a Berry's pawnshop pic in my private collection. The comus st court pic though (I know which one you're on about) will be copyright of the Liverpool records office from whom you will have to seek permission.

My site is below, the comus st pic is on the pre war slums page and the Berry's one is on the psot war b&w pics page.

I look forward to seeing your book.

Hi Ged,

I think they were off your website Ged! I tried to get onto your site a few days ago & had problems. I tried to contact you about the photos, because I had a feeling they were either off this site or your site. Any advice would be appreciated !

W

[Ged]

I've no problems with you using either of them but it's the LRO you'll need to speak with regarding the Comus street one though they're usually very accommodating. I'm from around there as you'll have gathered so will look forward to the book. :PDT11

[Welsby]

I've no problems with you using either of them but it's the LRO you'll need to speak with regarding the Comus street one though they're usually very accommodating. I'm from around there as you'll have gathered so will look forward to the book. :PDT11

Thanks Ged,

I got your PM's. I will talk to the Liv Record Office tomorrow & I'll acknowledge you & your website in the book, which should be finished in a few weeks, then I need to run it past a printer!

Thanks again,

W

[Ged]

That's very kind of you, all the best with the book. I like ordinary people stories and have got a few biographies such as The Liverpool Irish slummy one and Jim Elliots so i'll be adding this to the list too.

[corky100]

How Police treat a foreign art student photographer in London's Square Mile. Smarmy, condescending and wrong. And he also has the nerve to call HER cocky!! Is just wrong.

See how once he realises he isn't going to get anywhere with the photography ploy, he then books her for another offence. Then goes for big boy backup like a weasel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-6DijNE3Z0

[scouse smurf]

How Police treat a foreign art student photographer in London's Square Mile. Smarmy, condescending and wrong. And he also has the nerve to call HER cocky!! Is just wrong.

See how once he realises he isn't going to get anywhere with the photography ploy, he then books her for another offence. Then goes for big boy backup like a weasel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-6DijNE3Z0


Really nice bloke isn't he. Can tell that his partner doesn't agree with him otherwise he'd have joined in

[corky100]

All that (and other stories surfacing) in the same week that Scotland Yard are forced to remind the Met that their unlawful stance against photographers is causing public concern and that they shouldn't misinterpret or misuse them.....

[Ged]

I hope that lady used the video evidence and the builders as witnesses in knocking back any fine or police record. What a prize knob he is, not even a jobsworth but a antagonistic little fart of an upstart.

I bet somebody was in need of proper police action in the neighbourhood while he was poncing about with her. Is that what we pay council tax towards. :disgust: