Tunnels Under Liverpool

[MissInformed]

Hey everyone.
I thought we should have a definitive thread for all the tunnel discussion we have on here.

The tunnels discussed so far:
1. Williamson Tunnels
2. The Vines tunnels
3. Baltic Fleet tunnels

Anyone have anymore to add?
Even rumours/stories you have heard would be interesting

[theninesisters]

I'll kick off with the rumoured tunnel from Childwall Hall to the Childwall Abbey.

Having done some calculations on the gradient of the land, I don't think this would have ever existed. The gradient from what is now Mersey TV (where Childwall Hall once stood) to ground level at the Abbey is 47 foot - a measurement taken against the church tower and a light beam. Then give another 10ft or so to get in the celler system, you would have have a gradient of over 50 ft for just a short distance. Not a chance.

[christy]

Have heard rumours for years about a tunnel that goes from the Olympia pub on West Derby road to the basement of the Olympia theatre. Heard this from numerous people in the area including a lad whose mate lived in the pub for years and someone who worked on the door of the theatre when it was the Locarno ballroom. Also stories of a lift that goes from the basement of the theatre up into the centre of the floor that was used to bring the animals up when it was a circus (Cages in the walls in the basement aswell) Dont know how much is true but it is very interesting and I love the theatre by the great theatre architect Frank Matcham

[PhilipG]

Have heard rumours for years about a tunnel that goes from the Olympia pub on West Derby road to the basement of the Olympia theatre. Heard this from numerous people in the area including a lad whose mate lived in the pub for years and someone who worked on the door of the theatre when it was the Locarno ballroom. Also stories of a lift that goes from the basement of the theatre up into the centre of the floor that was used to bring the animals up when it was a circus (Cages in the walls in the basement aswell) Dont know how much is true but it is very interesting and I love the theatre by the great theatre architect Frank Matcham

No tunnel from the theatre to the pub.
It wasn't a lift for the animals in the centre of the ring, but the ring itself (the arena) could be hydraulically sunk into a pit and flooded with 80,000 gallons of water for aquatic displays.

[christy]

Cheers for that mate, sounds amazing, have you been down into the basement?

[PhilipG]

Cheers for that mate, sounds amazing, have you been down into the basement?

No, unfortunately, but there is book about Frank Matcham where I got the info from.
I once took a group of people round the Olympia, but we couldn't go into the basement.

[Gerard]

Hey everyone.
I thought we should have a definitive thread for all the tunnel discussion we have on here.

The tunnels discussed so far:
1. Williamson Tunnels
2. The Vines tunnels
3. Baltic Fleet tunnels

Anyone have anymore to add?
Even rumours/stories you have heard would be interesting

I wish I had a tunnel under Rrr ouse goin' straight t' The Lord Warden..
"I wont be Long girl..Just lookin' f' somethin' in the Shed".....again !!

[MissInformed]

:celb (23): all good stuff so far guys...

[steveb]

Hey everyone.
I thought we should have a definitive thread for all the tunnel discussion we have on here.

The tunnels discussed so far:
1. Williamson Tunnels
2. The Vines tunnels
3. Baltic Fleet tunnels

Anyone have anymore to add?
Even rumours/stories you have heard would be interesting

Hi
think there is one under the old Royal Infirmary, also the catacombs
of Anfield Cem


steve

[Libertarian]

When I was a kid used to walk through a tunnel from Moor Lane Walton to Kirkdale Station. Strange what you get up to as a kid eh?

[MissInformed]

I was going through Jim Moore's 'Underground Liverpool' last night to see if there were any tunnels we had missed, and I found something in the conclusion...Page 112

"William Pring recently wrote to the Liverpool Echo about a tunnel he had excavated in Lydia Anne Street some fifty years ago. Working on the basement of a house, he discovered a tunnel with a brick-laid roadway. 'We investigated further, and found it was a roadway wide enough for a horse and wagon, and at one point had a heavy steel door across'. The Council was informed but showed little interest and Mr Pring took no further action. So what was the tunnel and is it still there?"

Interesting stuff!!

[snappel]

think there is one under the old Royal InfirmaryYes, there are tunnels, but these are just the underfloor heating/service tunnels common to most hospitals. One branch does in fact link with the Universities engineering department - something to do with the steam turbine once connecting to the hospital boiler room I think. The tunnels are still there, but I've not been down them. The boiler house is now stripped out.

[stan]

When I was a kid used to walk through a tunnel from Moor Lane Walton to Kirkdale Station. Strange what you get up to as a kid eh?


We tried that when we were kids but it was all fenced off.

With regards to the catties in Anfield cem,they're all filled in now.

There is a tunnel going from the old rectory in the grounds of Alsop school going to Walton Church.

[steveb]

Yes, there are tunnels, but these are just the underfloor heating/service tunnels common to most hospitals. One branch does in fact link with the Universities engineering department - something to do with the steam turbine once connecting to the hospital boiler room I think. The tunnels are still there, but I've not been down them. The boiler house is now stripped out.

Thanks for the Info... Once Iam off my crutches, don't ask, I will get out with my camera.... Yes I have seen many such tunnels and are as you say mainly
service tunnels, not very interesting, but still a tunnel. Did you ever go into the catacombs in anfield Cem ?, looking at a map they seem to go for miles

steve

[stan]

I'm not sure,but last time I was able to get in there,it was possible to drop stones through holes in the concrete floor and listen to them drop several seconds later.Obviously,the actual catacombes must still exist and the staircases were the only parts filled in.Where are these maps you have seen?
Are they online?

[steveb]

I'm not sure,but last time I was able to get in there,it was possible to drop stones through holes in the concrete floor and listen to them drop several seconds later.Obviously,the actual catacombes must still exist and the staircases were the only parts filled in.Where are these maps you have seen?
Are they online?

Hi
I will find them and put one up...

steve

[Gnomie]

St Annes Church in Overbury street has tunnels underneath. I worked there doing some electrics in the 1980`s. we had to go down to the basement. down there is a large archway with passage ways running off it. they contain tombs and go ( i think) in the direction of where st annes school stood and the kwik save. we walked along them for a while. they are fairly big.

[theninesisters]

St Annes Church in Overbury street has tunnels underneath. I worked there doing some electrics in the 1980`s. we had to go down to the basement. down there is a large archway with passage ways running off it. they contain tombs and go ( i think) in the direction of where st annes school stood and the kwik save. we walked along them for a while. they are fairly big.

Are they still accessible to this day? Overbury street falls in the catchment area of JW's Tunnels....if so I will have to write a letter and see if I'm allowed down!

[Gnomie]

We only got down there as we where working there. i dont think there is any public access. I mentioned this to Tom Slemen who said he would try and get in there. he has never got back. If you are allowed in then can i come along please. i would love to go back in there.:)

[theninesisters]

We only got down there as we where working there. i dont think there is any public access. I mentioned this to Tom Slemen who said he would try and get in there. he has never got back. If you are allowed in then can i come along please. i would love to go back in there.:)

I'll write em a letter explaining my interest in the JW Tunnels and see where it gets me. That sounds fascinating too as it's a stones throw from Mason Street and the surrounding area's are littered with tunnels that we've not been able to access! If I get a response then I'll shout you!

[Ged]

Shout me too please, al hold ya coat.

[Kev]

Count me in :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

[theninesisters]

I'll take a picnic eh lads :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[snappel]

Jona - doesn't the JW website make a reference somewhere to the possibility of a tunnel linking the JW tunnels to the church?

[theninesisters]

Jona - doesn't the JW website make a reference somewhere to the possibility of a tunnel linking the JW tunnels to the church?

Different church. The rumour goes is that JW built a tunnel linking Paddington to St Mary's Church - we are yet to find whether this is true.
One person said that there is an archway in the corner of the graveyard (see attached picture) but this is currently blocked up and we think it goes down to the double section of graves below (higher graveyard than the road).

One of the reasons why we doubt this, is that St Mary's wasn't JW's local church, his 'local' church was St Thomas Park Lane where he was married.

[Gnomie]

They may not be JW tunnels. they have graves in the walls. keep us informed:)

[steveb]

They may not be JW tunnels. they have graves in the walls. keep us informed:)

Catacombs, a lot of cems had them. Anfield has, if and when I find my
map I will put it up

[theninesisters]

I was going through Jim Moore's 'Underground Liverpool' last night to see if there were any tunnels we had missed, and I found something in the conclusion...Page 112

"William Pring recently wrote to the Liverpool Echo about a tunnel he had excavated in Lydia Anne Street some fifty years ago. Working on the basement of a house, he discovered a tunnel with a brick-laid roadway. 'We investigated further, and found it was a roadway wide enough for a horse and wagon, and at one point had a heavy steel door across'. The Council was informed but showed little interest and Mr Pring took no further action. So what was the tunnel and is it still there?"

Interesting stuff!!


Yeah, have been wondering about this too - well strange. It's not too far from Williamson's 'local' church - St Thomas' Park Lane but there's no recordings of tunnels around that area. Certainly worth a nose this weekend. Had a nose on Google Earth - anyone know what the road is used for - is it a road full of houses?

[Ged]

Lydia Ann Street about 50 years ago would have had part of Kent Gardens tenement block on it, the Phoenix Foundry on the street built Merseyside's first marine engine.

[knowhowe]

There is reputed to be a still-extant tunnel running down James Street from the site of Liverpool Castle (now Queen Viccie's Monument) to the river.
This seems feasable as such features were a standard part of castle design in order to enable access for men and supplies during times of seige. Examples are known to exist at, for example, the Tower of London and at Chester Castle.

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/castle.html

if it does still exist, where it emerges at the riverside is anyone's guess...

[snappel]

I expect it would be long buried by other work. That said, the main north dock sewers and storm drains run underneath the strand, which is where the waterline would've been then...

[theninesisters]

There is reputed to be a still-extant tunnel running down James Street from the site of Liverpool Castle (now Queen Viccie's Monument) to the river.
This seems feasable as such features were a standard part of castle design in order to enable access for men and supplies during times of seige. Examples are known to exist at, for example, the Tower of London and at Chester Castle.

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/castle.html

if it does still exist, where it emerges at the riverside is anyone's guess...

I do recall that one of the managers of the 'LIVERPOOL' bar on James Street once said that when it's been raining and there's a high tide, his barrels of ale float around in the celler! Maybe worth contacting him...over a pint :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[verdi]

Greetings, I was working in Lydia Anne Street last year, didn't see any old tunnels though. Arced cellars in the basements otf the old whare houses. I once worked on Padington Gardens, in the 80's, an excavation was discovered, wasn't a tunnel, the echo came and photographed it, about forty feet from the Bears Paw going south.:034:

[fortinian]

I'd just like to clear up some confusion about JW and his 'local church'. His 'local' church would have undoubtedbly been St Mary's in Edge Hill.

The reason that some people get confused with St Thomas' church is that Williamson payed for a pew there so that he could have voting rights in the district. It may also be that the Tate family (as in his wife's family) had a history with St Thomas church and so used the church for all major functions and special occasions (weddings, baptisms, funerals etc...) and Williamson may have attended St Thomas as a young man when he was living in the city centre.

It does, however, seem unlikely that Williamson would travel all the way to the other end of the city (as it was then) to go to church on a Sunday when he had a perfectly decent church just up the road. In short, St Marys would have been his regular Sunday church (just for the convinence) but St Thomas' would have been his 'original' church.

[Cadfael]

I'd just like to clear up some confusion about JW and his 'local church'. His 'local' church would have undoubtedbly been St Mary's in Edge Hill.

The reason that some people get confused with St Thomas' church is that Williamson payed for a pew there so that he could have voting rights in the district. It may also be that the Tate family (as in his wife's family) had a history with St Thomas church and so used the church for all major functions and special occasions (weddings, baptisms, funerals etc...) and Williamson may have attended St Thomas as a young man when he was living in the city centre.

It does, however, seem unlikely that Williamson would travel all the way to the other end of the city (as it was then) to go to church on a Sunday when he had a perfectly decent church just up the road. In short, St Marys would have been his regular Sunday church (just for the convinence) but St Thomas' would have been his 'original' church.

Sorry to disappoint but St Thomas' was JW's 'local' church and was for his entire life. With JW living in Duke Street with his mother (not many people know that), St Thomas was his local church from up until the time he moved to Mason Street in 1802.

St Mary's wasn't constructed till 1813 and before that, he also attended St Jude's church (on the site of the Uni Hospital) as he gave stone freely to build the church.

There is no evidence as yet to prove that there is a tunnel system to St mary's, even by documentation by James Stonehouse (1846) and Charles Hand (1926) who only speculate.

There has been no records of JW connected with St Mary's at all, and you have to remember that all through his life, JW has been strongly connected with St Thomas, both with the family vault, his pew, his wedding and his death. You also have to remember that he had lots of church neighbours who didn't worship in St Mary's either.

[goldenface]

I know there is a tunnel leading from the North face of the Crown street railway cutting. The entrance is about 6ft off the floor and its about 4ft high.

Not sure where it goes but its quite long I know that much - I went there as a kid. Very scary!

[fortinian]

I see what you are saying Cad and I agree - St Thomas would have been main church of the Tate family who lived in Duke/Parr Street and so would have been the church that JW attended whilst he was living there and would probably return to for big events.

How do we know he lived on Duke St with his mother? I was under the impression that people don't know anything about his family as there are no records. The FoWT site doesn't mention any family that is known of.

I knew that St Judes was supposedly built from Williamson sandstone and so it was likely that he worshipped there. Couldn't it be possible that he used all three churches as and when he felt like it?

As for the people who lived on mason street and didn't attend St Judes, I was under the impression that people like Revs. Raffles and Hull were dissenters and so would not attened a CofE church anyway.

It's facinating that JW has so many links to different churches in Liverpool yet seems quite unmotivated by the evangelical revival of the 1800's that kicked off so much philanthropy. Indeed, Williamsons attitude to the Bible seems most offhand in some of Stonehouses stories.

[Cadfael]

I see what you are saying Cad and I agree - St Thomas would have been main church of the Tate family who lived in Duke/Parr Street and so would have been the church that JW attended whilst he was living there and would probably return to for big events.

How do we know he lived on Duke St with his mother? I was under the impression that people don't know anything about his family as there are no records. The FoWT site doesn't mention any family that is known of.
.

Joseph Williamson's mother was called Sarah and she lived in Duke Street - records from Williamson's Tobacco holdings show the number of the house and a seperate research lists Sarah in the family tree above Williamson so I'm 99% assuming that it was his mother. There are no records to show he was from Warrington, it is assumed that he was from Warrington - spoken by James Stonehouse first, and everyone else has latched on to that since.

[steveb]

Taken from Victoria County History of the County of Lancaster, Vol 4:


A rock-cut passage still runs under James Street, from somewhere near the position of the castle, towards the river. It was entered and examined in May 1862 by Mr. P. M. Coogan (Rep. in vol. 2, p. 132 of the Misc. Rep. in the City Engineer's Office), and a plan and sections were made, showing that it varied in height and width, averaging about 8 ft. in height, and has in its floor on the south side a channel, which, when lately sounded on the suggestion of Mr. Robert Gladstone, junr., has proved to be as much as 7 ft. 6 in. deep. It was again examined by the city engineer in 1908, and a new plan made. That it had some connexion with the ditch of the castle seems possible, and its depth is said to be sufficient to allow the river water to reach the ditch at high water

From: 'Liverpool: The castle and development of the town', A History of the County of Lancaster: Volume 4 (1911), pp. 4-36. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=41370. Date accessed: 24 July 2007.

[ChrisGeorge]

Thanks, Steve. Very interesting. I edited your intro to the quote slightly to make clear that it is from the Victoria County History. :)

I am going to copy your post to the Liverpool Castle thread as well.

Chris

[steveb]

Thanks, Steve. Very interesting. I edited your intro to the quote slightly to make clear that it is from the Victoria County History. :)

I am going to copy your post to the Liverpool Castle thread as well.

Chris

Thanks Chris.
It is worth pointing out that this site is a gold mine about the History
of Liverpool, a lot of hard reading, but will answer most queries.

[Lukeo25]

I know this isn't in Liverpool but it is just over the water there is the Tranmere Tunnels

[theoc]

Hi all
found your forum yesterday, fascinating to me since i left Liverpool some years ago.

When i was a kid growing up in Woolton Village, beside Reynolds Park, i discovered (I wasn't the first of course) a tunnel which ran for about 15 feet before turning right and running for another ten feet at which point it had been blocked off.
The tunnel is located near the base of the small quarry which can be found over a seven foot wall which runs along the left side of the entrance path from the gates on Woolton Hill Road.
i've looked for the quarry on Google Earth but it's completely obscured by a canopy of trees.

there's another oddity in Reynolds park which looks almost like a concealed entrance at the top of the field at the Woolton Park entrance.

Anybody here know anything about this or has anybody else seen the tunnel?

[DaisyChains]

Hi all
found your forum yesterday, fascinating to me since i left Liverpool some years ago.

When i was a kid growing up in Woolton Village, beside Reynolds Park, i discovered (I wasn't the first of course) a tunnel which ran for about 15 feet before turning right and running for another ten feet at which point it had been blocked off.
The tunnel is located near the base of the small quarry which can be found over a seven foot wall which runs along the left side of the entrance path from the gates on Woolton Hill Road.
i've looked for the quarry on Google Earth but it's completely obscured by a canopy of trees.

there's another oddity in Reynolds park which looks almost like a concealed entrance at the top of the field at the Woolton Park entrance.

Anybody here know anything about this or has anybody else seen the tunnel?

wow fascinating stuff!
I hope someone can shed some more light!:):unibrow:

[fortinian]

On the Williamson Tunnels Website; it was posted a while ago but sounds interesting:


Was Joseph Williamson a Yorkshireman?
Thursday October 11th, 2007

Very little has ever been known about Joseph Williamson’s early life and what information we have had has come from the writings of the somewhat unreliable 19th century local historian James Stonehouse.
Stonehouse tells us that Joseph Williamson was born on 10th March 1769 and that he left his home in Warrington at the age of 11 to lodge with the Tate family in Liverpool who gave him employment in their tobacco & snuff manufactory.
Stonehouse also relates that Joseph married Elizabeth Tate and eventually took over the Tate business.
In May 2007 a small team from the Williamson Tunnels Heritage Centre, frustrated by the dearth of information about Williamson, resolved to make a concerted effort to learn more.
Since then much information has been unearthed but the most significant breakthrough came quite recently.
Senior researcher Sian Roberts has uncovered evidence that Joseph Williamson was actually born in Yorkshire and that Joseph’s father and Elizabeth Tate’s grandfather were both glassmakers in a small village near Wakefield.
It appears that following the decline of small-scale glassmaking in Yorkshire in the latter part of the 18th century several members of the Tate family moved to Liverpool and we believe that at around the same time the Williamson family moved to Warrington.
The Heritage Centre research team is still following several leads, which may lead to more information about Joseph Williamson and are planning to display their work at the Heritage Centre in due course.

thats off http://www.williamsontunnels.co.uk
I always knew that the Mole of Edge Hill was not from Liverpool but there were never any specific details (apart from one mention of Warrington). You'd think they'd write a proper book or something about him but I suppose with information so scarce it'd be hard.

[Cadfael]

Hi all
found your forum yesterday, fascinating to me since i left Liverpool some years ago.

When i was a kid growing up in Woolton Village, beside Reynolds Park, i discovered (I wasn't the first of course) a tunnel which ran for about 15 feet before turning right and running for another ten feet at which point it had been blocked off.
The tunnel is located near the base of the small quarry which can be found over a seven foot wall which runs along the left side of the entrance path from the gates on Woolton Hill Road.
i've looked for the quarry on Google Earth but it's completely obscured by a canopy of trees.

there's another oddity in Reynolds park which looks almost like a concealed entrance at the top of the field at the Woolton Park entrance.

Anybody here know anything about this or has anybody else seen the tunnel?

Snappel did a report on this a little while ago but it may have been on a different forum. He posted up pictures though - give him a private message.

[Cadfael]

On the Williamson Tunnels Website; it was posted a while ago but sounds interesting:



thats off http://www.williamsontunnels.co.uk
I always knew that the Mole of Edge Hill was not from Liverpool but there were never any specific details (apart from one mention of Warrington). You'd think they'd write a proper book or something about him but I suppose with information so scarce it'd be hard.

I'm currently writing 'THE' book on Williamson and the Tunnels. Having been involved on the scene for 8 years, there's probably nothing I don't know about Williamson, his will, neighbours, the tunnels and I've been in every accessible section too (including the rare triple decker tunnel running underneath the Heritage Centre)

[Ged]

In 'A pub on every corner' regarding the Coach and Horses, Low hill. Freddy O'Connor mentions underground tunnels leading to a local bridewell. Anyone know anything about this?

[ChrisGeorge]

I'm currently writing 'THE' book on Williamson and the Tunnels. Having been involved on the scene for 8 years, there's probably nothing I don't know about Williamson, his will, neighbours, the tunnels and I've been in every accessible section too (including the rare triple decker tunnel running underneath the Heritage Centre)

Good luck with your book, mate! I'll look forward to seeing it. :PDT11

Chris

[Cadfael]

Good luck with your book, mate! I'll look forward to seeing it. :PDT11

Chris

Thank you Chris. There has been one book already on the Tunnels, which has read as little more than 'hearsay' and chinese whispers. In this book, I am including all 4 portraits of Williamson, a full copy of his will, and lots of information from around the area too. The biggest part is the 'red tape' but I'm sure I can bribe the council in some way :)

The biggest problem with books like this is that people release them expecting to make a mint yet produce little more than stories, I am going to be quoting hard fact from genuine sources, Williamson's Will, Stonehouse (1846) - Hand's visit in 1926 - and so on.

[ChrisGeorge]

I like the sound of your approach and that the book will be fact based rather than rely on myth and legend.

Chris

[EddTheRed]

I was in a play about Williamson earlier this year at The Unity Theatre - The King of Edge Hill by Karen Brown. Most of the cast went down the tunnels at some point. When I went, the guide was obviously new. One of the points of interest she took great pride in bringing our attention was a 'fossilised bird's nest'. The other guides had obviously been winding her up - the thing can't have been more than a year old.

[Ged]

Did the happen to find the joke book I use whilst in there? ;)

[Cadfael]

When I was doing tours of the area on Heritage Weekends, I didn't give a jot of information out that I couldn't say I sourced it from and could rabble on for at least 20 mins on just that section of the tunnels. The extra parts that I am touching on are Williamson's parents, his Godson (buried in a grave in Liverpool) and the connection between Williamson and Rosewen in Cumberland of which was in his will. But if I type it all on here, I wouldn't have a book to print :)

[PhilipG]

In 'A pub on every corner' regarding the Coach and Horses, Low hill. Freddy O'Connor mentions underground tunnels leading to a local bridewell. Anyone know anything about this?

Don't know about tunnels, but there is still a former bridewell close by.
Prescot Street, opposite the Royal's chimney.

What would be the point of tunnels between a police station and a pub?

[Cadfael]

What would be the point of tunnels between a police station and a pub

All depends on how old the surroundings are - The Masons Arms in Soho has such a thing and was built at the time when there was public hangings. If the police deemed that they would lose the prisoner with all the crowds, they shoved the prisoner down the tunnel system and along to the hanging bay.

[snappel]

For those interested, this book...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VZ8FY1EAL._SS500_.jpg

...was available (new) for £6.99 in the discount book shop in St Johns last time I was there. Big stack opposite the door. The shop is on the ground floor by 'Food Court'. A **** good read, and some excellent pictures too.

[Ged]

Yes i've got that, a good book and i've even been down the little bridewell under what was a book shop in Fazakerley street that it shows.

[Dafella]

Hi
think there is one under the old Royal Infirmary, also the catacombs
of Anfield Cem


steve

There are tunnels at the nook in Gateacre, one goes to Garston, one goes to the Abbey, and one goes to camp hill. Been told that the monks from the abbey used to take the booze down through the tunnel to the pub at the nook. Been a boozer there since 900 ad and it is mentioned in the dooms day book. They used to sell slaves outside the gateacre hall hotel which was built on it. they slaves were kept at the back of the hotel. They have knocked the hotel down now and built houses on top of the tunnels. I've spoke to people who have seen the three tunnels and they are genuine people.

[DaisyChains]

Yes i've got that, a good book and i've even been down the little bridewell under what was a book shop in Fazakerley street that it shows.

Any pics Ged?

How did you get permission for that?

[Waterways]

There are tunnels at the nook in Gateacre, one goes to Garston, one goes to the Abbey, and one goes to camp hill. Been told that the monks from the abbey used to take the booze down through the tunnel to the pub at the nook. Been a boozer there since 900 ad and it is mentioned in the dooms day book. They used to sell slaves outside the gateacre hall hotel which was built on it. they slaves were kept at the back of the hotel. They have knocked the hotel down now and built houses on top of the tunnels. I've spoke to people who have seen the three tunnels and they are genuine people.

Slaves? Black slaves? New to me. A tunnel from the Nook to Garston? Do you know how long that is?

[Cadfael]

Slaves? Black slaves? New to me. A tunnel from the Nook to Garston? Do you know how long that is?

I didn't want to be the 1st one to say anything on that post....Tunnels to Camp Hill and presumably the Childwall Abbey too..... :rolleyes: :)

[alfie80]

Yes, there are tunnels, but these are just the underfloor heating/service tunnels common to most hospitals. One branch does in fact link with the Universities engineering department - something to do with the steam turbine once connecting to the hospital boiler room I think. The tunnels are still there, but I've not been down them. The boiler house is now stripped out.

hi all,
have just joined your site following a web search on liverpool tunnels, i have it on fairly good authority that there used to be tunnels linking the womens hosp ,the southern ,myrtle st and the ENT hospital, this would be in the late 50s early 60s, does anyone have any recollections of these?
thanks in anticipation
ian

[Samp]

I have heard that tunnels connected some of the hospitals with a small railtrack to send hospital laundry to the main laundry room at the Royal?

[knowhowe]

There is a lot of fascinating material about Joseph Williamson in chapters 9 and 10 of 'Recollections of Old Liverpool by a Nonegenarian' (1863) which may be read and downloaded here-

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21324/21324-h/21324-h.htm

[researchwriter]

There is a lot of fascinating material about Joseph Williamson in chapters 9 and 10 of 'Recollections of Old Liverpool by a Nonegenarian' (1863) which may be read and downloaded here-

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21324/21324-h/21324-h.htmGood link!:PDT_Piratz_26:

[snappel]

hi all,
have just joined your site following a web search on liverpool tunnels, i have it on fairly good authority that there used to be tunnels linking the womens hosp ,the southern ,myrtle st and the ENT hospital, this would be in the late 50s early 60s, does anyone have any recollections of these?
thanks in anticipation
ian
Most hospitals have service tunnels for heating/maintenance. It's possible that those hospitals you mentioned were linked. The womens hospital was, back then, on Catherine Street wasn't it? It's now Agnes Jones halls of residence. ENT I'm guessing is the Symphony building, and then there was the maternity hospital behind. They may well have been linked, possibly all fed from one boiler house.

[Waterways]

Most hospitals have service tunnels for heating/maintenance. It's possible that those hospitals you mentioned were linked. The womens hospital was, back then, on Catherine Street wasn't it? It's now Agnes Jones halls of residence. ENT I'm guessing is the Symphony building, and then there was the maternity hospital behind. They may well have been linked, possibly all fed from one boiler house.

You are right. They would pipe steam from building to building.

[Did-you-see-them]

Came accross this thread by accident.
Thought you might like to know.

There is a deep well like entrance in Mossley Hill at the back Linwood House.Used to belong to the Holts of Sudley house.The tunnel shaft goes straight down and is about 6 ft in Diameter.It has thick Iron railings over it put there years ago and the last owner put rather placed an iron plate over it.The grass has grown around it quite high and it is now hard to spot.
The owner of the property (20 yrs ago) said that it was connected to garston docks !!! and was a smuggling tunnel that the Holts (shipping) family used.I dont know how true this is but it IS there.The house is being renovated after sitting empty for a number of years and it might be worthwhile someone going along and asking some questions if thats you thing.

[Ged]

Ah, on the corner of Park Avenue. That's one hell of a distance from Garston Docks but I think i'll have a shufty all the same. Thanks.

[Waterways]

Ah, on the corner of Park Avenue. That's one hell of a distance from Garston Docks but I think i'll have a shufty all the same. Thanks.

The Holts did not need to smuggle, they were rich enough from shipping. I doubt it goes to Garston Docks. The South End docks are nearer. There was a small Dock at Otterspool but disappeared just before WW2.

[Ged]

I'll bring me ladder and drop a paper chase in case I get lost.

[snappel]

Anyone know how deep it goes?

[Cadfael]

Have contacted the developer - see if I get anything from them.

[Lydia]

There is reputed to be a still-extant tunnel running down James Street from the site of Liverpool Castle (now Queen Viccie's Monument) to the river.
This seems feasable as such features were a standard part of castle design in order to enable access for men and supplies during times of seige. Examples are known to exist at, for example, the Tower of London and at Chester Castle.

http://www.bwpics.co.uk/castle.html

if it does still exist, where it emerges at the riverside is anyone's guess...

There are certainly a number of tunnels under Queen Buildings/Queen Avenue at the other end of Castle St - they are contemporary with the building and I have been led to believe they were built by French POW's (Napoleonic). Most of them have been bricked up now, but some are still accessible through a door in the arcade - you would have to get permission from Bruntwood (who own the building) and arrange for someone to show you around.

[Broliv]

Sounds like an idea for the meetup thread

[Lydia]

Sounds like an idea for the meetup thread

well if you do, then do pop in and see me, I'm in the gallery opposite the door to the tunnels.

[Broliv]

cool

[Samp]

There are certainly a number of tunnels under Queen Buildings/Queen Avenue at the other end of Castle St - they are contemporary with the building and I have been led to believe they were built by French POW's (Napoleonic). Most of them have been bricked up now, but some are still accessible through a door in the arcade - you would have to get permission from Bruntwood (who own the building) and arrange for someone to show you around.


A family friend while working to install new drains in the basement of a building in Sweeting St, unearthed a tunnel. A light was used to investigate, but the tunnel was longer than the beam of the light could probe. The tunnel went Towards the Town Hall in one direction and disappeared into the darkness in the opposite direction. I have no more information other than this, but the story is genuine.

In another story on tunnels, I also help out occasionally with The Friends of Williamson’s Tunnels. At a recent event at the Anglican Cathedral, an elderly gent told me he had heard a story of a tunnel somewhere below Water St, which contained a number of skeletons from a long time ago. The council investigated but decided to leave well alone and closed it up.

[Lydia]

The tunnel went Towards the Town Hall in one direction and disappeared into the darkness in the opposite direction.

Yup, that's the Queen Buildings tunnels

[Cadfael]

A bit of info on the Town Hall tunnel at my website:

http://www.undergroundliverpool.co.uk/#/townhallicehouse/4521648159

[Ged]

Came accross this thread by accident.
Thought you might like to know.

There is a deep well like entrance in Mossley Hill at the back Linwood House.Used to belong to the Holts of Sudley house.The tunnel shaft goes straight down and is about 6 ft in Diameter.It has thick Iron railings over it put there years ago and the last owner put rather placed an iron plate over it.The grass has grown around it quite high and it is now hard to spot.
The owner of the property (20 yrs ago) said that it was connected to garston docks !!! and was a smuggling tunnel that the Holts (shipping) family used.I dont know how true this is but it IS there.The house is being renovated after sitting empty for a number of years and it might be worthwhile someone going along and asking some questions if thats you thing.

Well I mosied on down there tonight and though the wall is well small enough to get over, there were too many eyes about with summer night joggers and cars galore - no Man Utd fans in Liverpool of course. I'll get down there again when the developers are in.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2037/linwoodhousemhrdic1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2037/linwoodhousemhrdic1.a14b76ad4c.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=217&i=linwoodhousemhrdic1.jpg)



.

[Ged]

A bit of info on the Town Hall tunnel at my website:

http://www.undergroundliverpool.co.uk/#/townhallicehouse/4521648159


These are on Frank Carlyle's 'Liverpool unravelled' dvd too.

[Gnomie]

Did anyone ever find out about the Tunnels under St Anne's Church in Edge lane. I cant think of the road? St Anne's school once stood opposite it? next to Taskers.

Well in the 80`s we where rewiring the place, and i had to go down below the church. Underneath is a big area with old pews stacked up. on the back wall is an archway and through it are passage ways. we walked along them and there are graves in the wall. from what i could gather( could be wrong) it went under the old site of St Annes School and over towards where the Kwik save was. Like a fool i told Slemen about it a couple of years ago, never got a reply, so expect a Slemen exclusive on how he discovered the long lost tunnels of St Annes:)

Very Spooky down there.

[Cadfael]

Did anyone ever find out about the Tunnels under St Anne's Church in Edge lane. I cant think of the road? St Anne's school once stood opposite it? next to Taskers.

Well in the 80`s we where rewiring the place, and i had to go down below the church. Underneath is a big area with old pews stacked up. on the back wall is an archway and through it are passage ways. we walked along them and there are graves in the wall. from what i could gather( could be wrong) it went under the old site of St Annes School and over towards where the Kwik save was. Like a fool i told Slemen about it a couple of years ago, never got a reply, so expect a Slemen exclusive on how he discovered the long lost tunnels of St Annes:)

Very Spooky down there.

Lad, I've written off to the PCC with the 'Williamsons Tunnels' interest on behalf of FOWT so if/when I get a reply, I'll tag you along!

[Gnomie]

Lad, I've written off to the PCC with the 'Williamsons Tunnels' interest on behalf of FOWT so if/when I get a reply, I'll tag you along!

COOOOL :PDT_Piratz_26:

[christy]

Not sure if this is the right place but does anyone know anything about the Nuclear bunker under either Victoria park? or Mersey park over the water. Mentioned on Tony Snells program this morning by people from the area as somewhere that you cant visit or walk through that you would love to?
Any info? Anyone been down there?

[Waterways]

There are tunnels between the Post Office at Copperas Hill and Line St Station.

At the US Burtonwood Airbase, there were large underground caverns - presumably for bomb storage. They were sealed and the buildings above demolished.

[t-malone@sky.com]

There are tunnels between the Post Office at Copperas Hill and Line St Station.

At the US Burtonwood Airbase, there were large underground caverns - presumably for bomb storage. They were sealed and the buildings above demolished.


Is that why there was subsidance on the M62 years ago

[Waterways]

Is that why there was subsidance on the M62 years ago

Could be. I think that was because of mining.

[Cadfael]

There are tunnels between the Post Office at Copperas Hill and Line St Station.

At the US Burtonwood Airbase, there were large underground caverns - presumably for bomb storage. They were sealed and the buildings above demolished.

Fred Dibnah had the pleasure of taking out the tower!

[AnMe08]

When I was first born(35 years ago) up until the age of three I used to live in an old priory in Watergate Lane in Woolton it was called St. Bennets Priory. My Mum and Dad told me of the subterranean passage that began in the cellar of the house. They found the entrance (which was partially blocked) while checking the electric meter. As I was too young to remember very much at all about the Priory I did a bit of research and found the following.....

St. Bennet's Priory.

After the Reformation, the Catholic families of Great Britain practiced their Faith in secret. Those Manorial buildings, which remained to Catholic owners, were furnished with secret rooms, passages, and exits for the safety of priests, who crept there, in disguise, to attend to the spiritual needs of the family and all the inhabitants of the Manor.

For many generations the Norris family at Speke Hall played a great part in preserving the Roman Catholic Faith in South West Lancashire. Speke Hall, which is about two miles from Woolton, contains hiding places for priests. Entrances and exits were often affected by means of subterranean passages leading from the Hall to the banks of the Mersey. In 1586, we read that a certain priest named Richard Brittain "remayneth now at the house of Mr. Norris of the Speke." This Mr. Norris later became Sir William Norris, and his descendants remained true to the old Faith.


Here's a link to the full article...

RootsWeb: ENG-LANCS-WOOLTON-MUCH-L [ENG-LANCS-WOOLTON-MUCH] Woolton History 19 (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-LANCS-WOOLTON-MUCH/2006-10/1160191153)

Moreover, when the priory was knocked down to build houses the builders, working on the Watergate Lane site, unearthed the remains of a tunnel.

It was a really spooky place to live, I remember clearly the tomb stone in the garden and the graves. They have now been removed and put in St Mary's Church in Woolton. My Mum told me of the time she was hanging out the washing one day only to slip and twist her ankle on one of the graves that was badly damaged and falling in. She said the place was haunted!

[Ged]

I'd love to live in a place like that. How did your parents come to live in such a place?

[Davec]

I don't know if this has been posted somewhere else, but if not it's well worth a read. Williamson' tunnels are mentioned in Chapter X.


Recollections of Old Liverpool by A Nonagenarian - Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/21324)

Love the way he writes.

Dave.

[shytalk]

Thanks Davec, it has been posted before but is well worth a reminder.:handclap:

[AnMe08]

I'd love to live in a place like that. How did your parents come to live in such a place?

They had just got married and it was their first house together (one that they could afford) They were renting it at the time quite cheaply apparently -probably because nobody else wanted a graveyard in their garden! lol I have memories of my Mum lifting me up onto the tomb/vault to tie my shoe laces:eek:

[Cadfael]

When I was first born(35 years ago) up until the age of three I used to live in an old priory in Watergate Lane in Woolton it was called St. !

A fantastic story and welcome to Yo.

It reminds me of the Vicarage at Childwall, in the games room was a cupboard that you could crawl in to and virtually navigate all around the house between the inner and outer walls!

[AnMe08]

A fantastic story and welcome to Yo.

It reminds me of the Vicarage at Childwall, in the games room was a cupboard that you could crawl in to and virtually navigate all around the house between the inner and outer walls!

That sounds like fun! lol I would of loved something like that :)

[lindylou]

sounds an interesting place AnMe08

[Cat78]

Hi,

I have just stumbled across this site as I was searching for info on the old priory at watergate lane in woolton (there is very little info on the web about it).

I live on Watergate Lane and my daughters go to Much Woolton Catholic primary (this was built on the site of the old priory). My daughter told me that there is supposedly a grave under one of the buildings on the school grounds and as an old St Julies pupil (top of watergate lane), I remember girls talking about the old graveyard that was once there.

I only started St Julies once Much Woolton primary had already been built and would love to know if anyone has any more info on the priory, or an old well that was supposed to be near to the priory but most importantly, the tunnel that apparently goes under my street from Woolton Hall to the old priory.

Cheers,

Cat

[fortinian]

You sure about the priory?

If anyone knows I bet Cad would. He does a lot of Woolton stuff. PM him and see.

EDIT: If you've done a websearch you probably have seen this click here. (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-LANCS-WOOLTON-MUCH/2006-10/1160191153)

[danensis]

As this is a thread about tunnels, what are all the openings in the walls of the edge hill cutting? You can see them from the train, but they're too high up to be anything to do with the railway.

[Kev]

I tried to photograph some as I traveled away from Lime Street the other month. Unsuccessful, it made me dizzy.

Some of them are old Williamson's tunnels I think.

[fortinian]

The Williamson Tunnels do not actually open onto the railway but they are there if you look. You will see that the walls change from natural sandstone to shaped sandstone blocks - this is where the so-called 'Triple Decker' Tunnel originally ran and was cut through my Stevensons LMR tunnel in the 1830s. I have even seen the plans that were drawn by the engineers of the LMR tunnel that show Mr Williamsons tunnel cutting into the railway.

Part of the triple decker still survives underneath the Williamson Tunnels Centre on Smithdown lane and is still accessable today! (Pics Beneath used with permission)

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v252/121/55/796200530/n796200530_3030120_415.jpg
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v252/121/55/796200530/n796200530_3030041_5479.jpg

The 'hole' in the railway wall that you mention is probably the original chamber that housed 'Ramsbottoms Chimney' which was a huge venilator fan to allow the smoke and steam from locomotives to escape.

You might not be aware that the railway was originally a tunnel and only opened out into a cutting in the 1880s, so a good vent system would be in place. Ramsbottom was the chief engineer or designer I think. The yard where the chimney stood is still on Smithdown Lane (I think it's just used as storage now). There have been, however suggestions that Ramsbottom used a pre-existant Williamson Tunnel to house his fan, although I have yet to see proof.

EDIT: If anyone has an old skyline of Liverpool from pre-1970s you may be able to see the chimney as it was absolutely massive and would have easily shown up.

[Cadfael]

Spot on Fortinian.

Williamson and Stephenson met several times over their 'time'. The triple Decker Tunnel used to run from Grinfield Street all the way to the back of Williamson's House but when the railway came along, it was cut in half. Williamson wanted to keep a link so built a tunnel under the cutting as we know it now - I'll get some pictures posted up of the exact part that the tunnels were bricked up. The only other part as you say is Ramsbottoms Chimney. Demolished in the 1960's, it took a tunnel that Williamson built as part of the ventilation process before the cutting was a cutting and it was an enclosed tunnel.

I'll load up some pics tonight or tomorrow as I've got a load of the Chimney :PDT11

[Knottedash]

I had a mooch today around the garden but no sign of anything as its a forest of nettles and brambles - im currently covered in nettle stings and my legs look like I wear barbed wire pantaloons. re. the smugglers tunnel, I got to thinking on my way home that the tunnel is more likley (if there is one) to be a passage to the church which is spitting distance from the house. These are not uncommon in old dwellings around the reformation and later I have heard of well to do families not wanting to walk with the hoy polloy would dig themselves a route from a basement to the crypt. To cut a tunnel to garston isnt impossible (mother redcaps baltic fleet etc) but it is one hell of an undertaking.

Any thoughts or info would be appreciated.

[fortinian]

Here are some shots of Ramsbottoms Chimney. The first is a photo of a photo... of a photo so quality is a bit dim. The second is from Jim Moores 'Underground Liverpool' which is a brilliant book that I thoroughly recommend.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/2848314829_f51071160c.jpg?v=1221159790
This is Blanche Street - no longer there, but the road at the top of the picture is Smithdown Lane.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/2849169456_c15b16af36.jpg?v=0

There are plenty more of these in the LRO.

[marky]

A Flickr.com member has a picture of the Smithdown Lane chimney from 1970.
Liverpool 1970 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29980468@N03/2924700623/?addedcomment=1#comment72157607914971588)

[Waterways]

The 'hole' in the railway wall that you mention is probably the original chamber that housed 'Ramsbottoms Chimney' which was a huge venilator fan to allow the smoke and steam from locomotives to escape.

You might not be aware that the railway was originally a tunnel and only opened out into a cutting in the 1880s, so a good vent system would be in place.


The Ramsbottom vent shaft was not a success. It had a steam powered fan. With some accidents and two much smoke in the Lime St tunnel, parts were made into a wide cutting.

Much of these cuttings can be filled in today to have buildings on them once again. The walls around the cuttings are boring and lifeless from street level.

From Science and society site. Extending the width of the Lime Street tunnel/cuttings:
http://i37.tinypic.com/vsopxw.jpg

You can see the tunnel and where parts were cut away to make open air cuttings. Parts of the tunnel were left in place where roads crossed the tunnel/cutting, creating deep natural rock bridges.

http://i36.tinypic.com/16k1ahx.jpg

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/pr/41388865/Science_&_Society_10445942.jpg

Below is the existing tunnel, and all around where they have widened and made the large cutting quadrupling the tracks. The brick lining of the existing old tunnel can be seen, as they dismantle it opening it up into the surrounding big cutting. It was quite clever what they did.
http://i34.tinypic.com/23ixthy.jpg

Mike Turner posted these links a while back:
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/road-rail/8759-fourteen-tunnels-lime-street.html#post120630

[Waterways]

A Flickr.com member has a picture of the Smithdown Lane chimney from 1970.
Liverpool 1970 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29980468@N03/2924700623/?addedcomment=1#comment72157607914971588)

It is no good on a link. Here it is:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2391/2924700623_35e45351b0.jpg?v=1223582542

A later picture when the vent tower was demolished. Behind the school before Sydney Gardens the round vent shaft tower for the Waterloo tunnel can be seen.
http://www.abblanch.com/images/school%20photo.jpg

[Danny Farley]

Have heard rumours for years about a tunnel that goes from the Olympia pub on West Derby road to the basement of the Olympia theatre. Heard this from numerous people in the area including a lad whose mate lived in the pub for years and someone who worked on the door of the theatre when it was the Locarno ballroom. Also stories of a lift that goes from the basement of the theatre up into the centre of the floor that was used to bring the animals up when it was a circus (Cages in the walls in the basement aswell) Dont know how much is true but it is very interesting and I love the theatre by the great theatre architect Frank Matcham


Hi Christy. I spent some time in the basement at the olympia many years ago
There was a lift that brought up the animals but it did not work and the floor above it had been covered. As you probably know it was at one time a circus.
However i found no secret passage,s and there where no cages,but there is a huge elephant pit where they kept the elephants. I was also a regular at the Olympia pub throughout the 60s and i never heared anything about the passage.

[burkhilly]

There's a tunnel which connects the County Sessions House and Museum in William Brown Street. I've no idea how long it's been there or why it's between these two buildings. Part of the tunnel contains cells, which are now used for storage.

[Kev]

St. James' Cem

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/3035065907_4c7b672b92_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/3035065907_4c7b672b92_o.jpg)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/3035066487_dbfc0e4624_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/3035066487_dbfc0e4624_o.jpg)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/3035902560_90e1b203eb_o.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/3035902560_90e1b203eb_o.jpg)

[Ged]

Came across this having heard of it before. Anyone know if it ever happened or if so where it is and if not why not?

Liverpool Record Office: Online Catalogue (http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/dserve.exe?&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=2&dsqSearch=((text)='BIRKETT%20STREET)')


.

[fortinian]

The link you posted does not work... from what I am guessing I can think of two things;

a) the 'brewery tunnel' belonging to a Brew House in Everton which had a tunnel for the barrels of beer to roll down a slope from the Brewery to the yard for transportation.

b) the proposed link to the city centre that would have come out at Everton. (I'm remembering this as I haven't got any books at hand) I think it was meant to come out somewhere near the top of Sleepers Hill

. It was meant to link up with the A580 (East Lancs Road) and be a direct access from Manchester to the Liverpool Docks and Mersey Tunnels, going under the city and down towards the Mersey.

As the project was proposed during the 1920s-1930's I believe that World War II got in the way, costs escallated and the plans were shelved.

As I said, I am remembering this so my facts might not be accurate.

[mikeadams1985@gmail.com]

with regards to the tunnell at reynolds park, this tunnell does exsist and is accessible, if your not afraid of climbin a wall then going down the quarry bank.

ill try and get to it at the weekend and get some pictures for you.

Id love to find the rest of the tunnells, Any chance of getting a list of confirmed tunnells?

[Cadfael]

Aye, the tunnel at Reynolds Park is cut in the sandstone bedrock and goes up in like a spiral staircase fashion. I need to go again - this time with a camera!

[tezmac]

Very interesting subject

[charlie5083d]

Came across this having heard of it before. Anyone know if it ever happened or if so where it is and if not why not?

Liverpool Record Office: Online Catalogue (http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/dserve.exe?&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=2&dsqSearch=((text)='BIRKETT%20STREET)')


.
Reference Everton tunnels, my mother worked in a Sayers Confectioners shop in Brunswick Road, which is near to Low Hill, during the thirties and forties. to get to the toilet facilities, you had to go to the basement of the shop, and access a tunnel that went under the road. There were rooms in this passageway, which contained various junk. Emerging the tunnel on the other side of the road, there was the toilet, and another passageway that led off into the darkeness. It was never explored by her. I have heard of tunnels being in the Everton area, before allegedly from the Civil War period, and have often wondered if the one under Brusnwick Road was one of them. However, I heard Frank Carlyle on Radio Merseyside one day saying that a lot of what we presume to be tunnels were in fact "Cold Rooms" constructed at the same time as the property above, to keep produce fresh, and did not necessarily lead anywhere. With the tunnels in Burnswick Road being under shops I wonder if this was the case.

[charlie5083d]

Have heard rumours for years about a tunnel that goes from the Olympia pub on West Derby road to the basement of the Olympia theatre. Heard this from numerous people in the area including a lad whose mate lived in the pub for years and someone who worked on the door of the theatre when it was the Locarno ballroom. Also stories of a lift that goes from the basement of the theatre up into the centre of the floor that was used to bring the animals up when it was a circus (Cages in the walls in the basement aswell) Dont know how much is true but it is very interesting and I love the theatre by the great theatre architect Frank Matcham

Funny story in connection with Locarno. When in the police in the early 80's, the Locarno Burglar Alarm went off, and we all attended to check it out. Two colleagues went into the basement area, one of them went in front and shone his torch. He saw a step down onto what he thought was the floor of the cellar. He stepped down and immediately fell into large pool of water that was the elephant pit.
Nobody had been down ther for years and a film of dust had formed on the surface of the water, making it look solid. Apparently through lack of use, a water leak, and a misplaced delivery of diesel fuel in the '50s all contributed to the pit becoming full. Hence him falling in. If you have ever seen a cartoon of someone trying to get out of water in double quick time, you can imagine the scene. He consequently had to get his stomach pumped, and a complete new uniform. There were no burglars, just a fault in the system.

[balls]

hi i was just wandering if anyone knows of the tunnel that runs under county rd the only thing i know is that it runs through the glebe pub ther is actually an entrance in the celler which lets you go left towards walton church or right down county rd any ifo would be appreciated thanks

[fortinian]

This is beginning to annoy me now; when people post and say

'Anyone know about a tunnel from...'

Automatically assumes thet there is a tunnel there and that it is well known about when in 99% cases it is simply an old cellar.

My suggestion, is that instead of posting on here, go an ask the places if you can have a look then report back here. We could create a sort of list of real tunnels and urban myth tunnels.

Balls, you sound like you've already been into the tunnel (at least to the entrance), if not where did you get your description from?

[balls]

yeah ive had a look it goes in the direction of walton church and the opposite way towards hale rd direction i have not explored it which is why i was asking whether anyone had heard of it and maybe could enlighten me if i knew what it was i wouldnt be on here

[fortinian]

As you can tell, mysteries annoy me! I wasn't having at go at you Balls, I was just annoyed about all these tunnels that people speak of yet no-one seems to know where exactly they are or how to get to them.

At least this County Road tunnel has been seen, i'd love to have a look at it.

[Samp]

Sounds like you may have broken into the sewer there Balls!

[Martin S]

Back in the mid-Seventies, I worked in the City Engineer's department structures section. The head of the department told me that back in the 50s he had been asked to visit the site of the new Corn Exchange then under construction in Drury Lane.

The Contractors had found a tunnel and when the engineers inspected it, they found that it extended some way and that there were actually four levels of tunnels. They were narrow and had cages, like cells, built in along one side.

Apparently, nobody knew how far these tunnels extended or what they had been used for. There was speculation that they followed the old streets of the town and that they had been used for imprisoning slaves following the abolition of the slave trade - but there was no evidence for that.

One of the engineers who had seen the tunnels told me that they had found an old oil lamp. When they went to pick it up, it collapsed into dust.

The engineer's advice to the contractors was to collapse in the top tier of tunnels and fill it in.

I wrote to Jim Moore about this some years ago and he said that he might research it for an update of Underground Liverpool.

Two other underground features that I found out about when I was working there were the concrete bridges constructed across Georges Dock. In this case they actually had the site photographs dated 1907.

The bridges carry Water Street and Brunswick Street from the Strand between the Three Graces to the Pier Head. They are massive structures and are still there (the Brunswick Street one can be seen if you go on the Mersey Tunnels tour). Photographs taken before the Cunard Building was built show the Brunswick Street bridge to be quite an ornate structure with a viaduct of four-centred arches supporting the road and a similar viaduct, at a higher level supporting the footpath. The Water Street bridge is just a box.

The engineers had been inside the Water Street box and found it to be partially flooded. When they tested the water, they found it to be identical to tap water.

Although their existence is well documented, there is some mystery in just why they were built. It would have been much cheaper just to have filled in the dock - so presumably they were part of some civic project that got shelved when the Liver and Cunard Buildings were constructed.

[fortinian]

Now that is interesting Martin... I never knew of these bridges.

Has Jim Moore said he will do an updated version of Underground Liverpool?

[Waterways]

Here they are. It looks like arches were built to allow small boats around Georges Dock. The passage from Canning Dock, behind the Dock Office, can still be seen. That whole space was one dock water space. Georges Dock had a boat passage to Princes Dock and Canning Docks. Both of these can still be seen in these docks.

Me thinks: then they decided that the other road extension would be solid, as the dock was too big for small boats. The near side of Georges Dock is being filled in, as the two photos show.

Then...events overtook and the usage changes as planning permission came in for large water front buildings, so the dock was to be filled in fully - well the dock forms the basements of the three buildings.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2aexz6f.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/25turud.jpg

Pics 20th century images.

The waterfront baths are demolished between the two photos taken.

[Ged]

Great pics WW. I expect you'd get doube height basements out of the depth of Georges dock too.

[Waterways]

It looks like some of the buildings at Chester Basin, which is in front of the Dock Office, had also been demolished. Manchester Dock is still there, as this was filled in in, in 1929 at the same time as Chester Basin.

Chester Basin was the tidal ferry terminal until the Pier Head Landing Stage was built.

[irishseashipping.com]

[QUOTE=Although their existence is well documented, there is some mystery in just why they were built. It would have been much cheaper just to have filled in the dock - so presumably they were part of some civic project that got shelved when the Liver and Cunard Buildings were constructed.[/QUOTE]

If you go to the Liverpool on line archive there are many detailed pictures of the construction of the Brunswick Street bridge across George's Dock.

As you say it is a bit of a mystery as to why the dock wasn't just filled in or earth/stone embankbank constructed across it such as the temporary one which was placed across Prince's Dock in 2008 to facilitate the construction of the canal over-bridge under William Jessop Way (Prince's Parade) or as at Water Street when a stone embankment was used as shown in the above pictures.

Surely someone out there must know the definitive reason?

John

[Knottedash]

Howdy all, dont know if this has been said and Im sorry if t has. If you ask at the cunard building reception if there is anything in their basement they will contact their manager who will give you a tour of the 3 floors below ground level.

Me and a chum went the other day. There is storage for the steerage passengers and safes for the 1st class for their baggage. And an air raid shelter in the bottom level. The guy who showed us round said he does tours so anyone can go any time you just have to give him a ring and organize it. He also showed us an old part of the dock, from the posts above it must've been one of the docks mentioned in the post on the other page - Manchester dock and Chester basin. You can also see the remains of a miniature steam loco track that took the baggage. He said that it linked all three graces eventually. The bomb shelter mentioned earlier was also accessible from all three graces. But I guess for security reasons its been sub divided between the buildings.

well worth a mooch.