Dock Railway, Pier Head, 1953

[Colin Wilkinson]

My recent posting on the Gaumont cinema, which I erroneously attributed to Camden Street (the suggestion is that it was The Savoy in Brougham Terrace) brought home to me the ease with which errors can be made and, if not corrected, become established facts. When I started publishing books, I soon realised that there were [...]

More... (http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/dock-railway-pier-head-1953/)

[Ged]

Great posting Colin and yes i'm sure an answer will follow shortly.

[Oddsocks]

Good photo, old one but very clear. You put some very good images up that enhance the topic.

Especially as it shows the floating roadway up with the tide.

Oddsocks

[Sirob]

The railway lines shwn in the picture were part of the Mersey Docks and Harbour Boards 'main line', which ran the length of the docks. The railway companies and their successors had runnimg powers over it, but the MDHB had a fleet of 0-6-0 saddle tanks and engine sheds as well.
The section across the Pier Head became a nightmare to operate, due to parked cars and traffic, being abandoned in the 1960's. the dock railway was then operated in two halves until closure of the South Docks in 1971. Following re-laying and reconstruction of Alexandra Dock level crossing, the only section remaining is from the container terminal to the Bootle Branch.
This is the limit of the northern part in July 1971 and the last (private) steam loco on the docks.

[dazza]

Great picture Sirob. :PDT11

[Sirob]

Great picture Sirob. :PDT11

Thanks, I had great fun steaming round the Princes Dock lines - and I have the pics to prove it!

[Ged]

For those of you who have not seen Sirob's fantastic collection of photos on what I consider to be one of the best threads ever on Yo (along with Brian Daleys Hullo old home to name but one other) then check this out.

http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?8390-Unseen-Liverpool&highlight=UNSEEN+LIVERPOOL


.

[dazza]

Thanks Ged, I've come across Sirob's excellent thread before. We're a lucky lot on Yo to have access to all this wonderful information :handclap:

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Ged]

Not arf. :)

[Waterways]

I remember the diesel locos. Square and painted a lightish brown. The went very slow. Slower than trams.
They would run in and out the docks across the Dock Rd and into the freight terminals which were all along the Dock Rd.

[wsteve55]

The railway lines shwn in the picture were part of the Mersey Docks and Harbour Boards 'main line', which ran the length of the docks. The railway companies and their successors had runnimg powers over it, but the MDHB had a fleet of 0-6-0 saddle tanks and engine sheds as well.
The section across the Pier Head became a nightmare to operate, due to parked cars and traffic, being abandoned in the 1960's. the dock railway was then operated in two halves until closure of the South Docks in 1971. Following re-laying and reconstruction of Alexandra Dock level crossing, the only section remaining is from the container terminal to the Bootle Branch.
This is the limit of the northern part in July 1971 and the last (private) steam loco on the docks.

Hi Sirob,Is this a similar engine to the one on permanent display,on the corner of Derby rd.?

[ItsaZappathing]

My recent posting on the Gaumont cinema, which I erroneously attributed to Camden Street (the suggestion is that it was The Savoy in Brougham Terrace) brought home to me the ease with which errors can be made and, if not corrected, become established facts. When I started publishing books, I soon realised that there were [...]

More... (http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/dock-railway-pier-head-1953/)

Another fine post Colin.Very good.:handclap:

[Sirob]

The loco plinthed on Derby road is a diesel, I had a small Andrew Barclay saddle tank steam loco.
With the Princes Dock rail traffic finished, the resident MD&HB diesel was sent under its own power to Brunswick via the disused Waterloo/Victoria tunnels, Edge Hill and Allerton Junction. I rode on it to Edge Hill and the driver was concerned about the gearbox getting hotter and hotter!
The pics show Waterloo Tunnel Mouth, Brunswick MD&HB shed and a railtour of the northern docks in 1973(pre HSE!).

[wsteve55]

Thanks for that Sirob! I was down Regent rd,earlier, and I never realised there was so much track!

[ItsaZappathing]

The loco plinthed on Derby road is a diesel, I had a small Andrew Barclay saddle tank steam loco.
With the Princes Dock rail traffic finished, the resident MD&HB diesel was sent under its own power to Brunswick via the disused Waterloo/Victoria tunnels, Edge Hill and Allerton Junction. I rode on it to Edge Hill and the driver was concerned about the gearbox getting hotter and hotter!
The pics show Waterloo Tunnel Mouth, Brunswick MD&HB shed and a railtour of the northern docks in 1973(pre HSE!).

Nice one Sirob mate. Cracker pics.:handclap:

[wsteve55]

Sirob,what was this tour for? Was it something they did anyway,or because the dock was closing?

[Waterways]

Sirob,what was this tour for? Was it something they did anyway,or because the dock was closing?

I recall an engine that was totally square. I saw pic on the web once.

[Sirob]

The railtour was for one of the enthusiasts groups. The MD&HB would occasionally agree to hire out a loco, crew and use some BR wagons!
My pic shows one of the 'pug' engines that BR used on the dock railway. This is a Sunday in the mid 1950's at Bank Hall shed.
What is interesting is that all steam locos working under the Overhead Railway had to be fitted with a deflector plate over the chimney. This was to prevent the exhaust from blasting the paint off the underside of the decking. In practice, with the thing in position you were shrouded in a dense fog and couldn't see where you were going! So they were not always used, with the resultant damage to the Overhead!
For traversing the streets, a motion guard over the slide bars was fitted. After a driver had had his hands trapped by it falling down while oiling, these often disappeared, only to appear magically again when the engine was despatched to Horwich works!
All engines were also fitted with a motion driven bell, to warn of approach. Drivers, driven mad by the clanging, found that if they went fast enough the bell could break off, (shame!)
Access to the docks from Bank Hall was via the Bankfield branch. Coal and water points would be in the various BR yards, so the engines could stay out for days, if need be. The primary job was to shunt the yards and work traffic to and from the Dock Railway.
The short wheelbase 'pugs' were introduced by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway in 1891 and lasted into the 1960's.
This company introduced an 0-6-0 shunting tank engine in 1897. These were large beasts, compared to the 'pugs' and could shift huge loads. One driver said that the things gobbled coal and water, like it was going out of fashion!!! A pic of one shows the size.

[wsteve55]

Ha,Ha,good story Sirob,especially the bell! Here's some pic's of that little train,which I guess was used for similar work? I'd never noticed the "false" track,before,or the tunnel!This was saved by the M.D.C.

[ItsaZappathing]

The railtour was for one of the enthusiasts groups. The MD&HB would occasionally agree to hire out a loco, crew and use some BR wagons!
My pic shows one of the 'pug' engines that BR used on the dock railway. This is a Sunday in the mid 1950's at Bank Hall shed.
What is interesting is that all steam locos working under the Overhead Railway had to be fitted with a deflector plate over the chimney. This was to prevent the exhaust from blasting the paint off the underside of the decking. In practice, with the thing in position you were shrouded in a dense fog and couldn't see where you were going! So they were not always used, with the resultant damage to the Overhead!
For traversing the streets, a motion guard over the slide bars was fitted. After a driver had had his hands trapped by it falling down while oiling, these often disappeared, only to appear magically again when the engine was despatched to Horwich works!
All engines were also fitted with a motion driven bell, to warn of approach. Drivers, driven mad by the clanging, found that if they went fast enough the bell could break off, (shame!)
Access to the docks from Bank Hall was via the Bankfield branch. Coal and water points would be in the various BR yards, so the engines could stay out for days, if need be. The primary job was to shunt the yards and work traffic to and from the Dock Railway.
The short wheelbase 'pugs' were introduced by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway in 1891 and lasted into the 1960's.
This company introduced an 0-6-0 shunting tank engine in 1897. These were large beasts, compared to the 'pugs' and could shift huge loads. One driver said that the things gobbled coal and water, like it was going out of fashion!!! A pic of one shows the size.

Nice story Sirob.:PDT_Piratz_26:

[ItsaZappathing]

I recall an engine that was totally square. I saw pic on the web once.

Square ??? Never!!:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Waterways]

Square ??? Never!!:PDT_Piratz_26:

Like this but smaller:

http://i39.tinypic.com/9j3f6b.jpg

[wsteve55]

Hi WW,would you know anything about the engine in my earlier post?

[ItsaZappathing]

Like this but smaller:

http://i39.tinypic.com/9j3f6b.jpg

Well you learn something new everyday..that's true. Thanx WW:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Waterways]

Hi WW,would you know anything about the engine in my earlier post?

No. I only recall the square diesel shunters, with one bar connecting the wheels. They went slow and the driver would hoot if people or cars got in the way. They didn't need to go fast just pull a heavy line of wagons. They operated all along the docks until the 1970s. Traffic had to stop for them as they went across the Dock Rd from goods terminals to the track under the Overhead and peeling off into the docks. The driver had to get out and operate the points levers - we would throw them over as kids. They went in and out the massive Brunswick Goods Terminal a lot. The Overhead was a two level railway. The steam shunters corroded the Overhead's ironwork.