Liverpool's Original Seven Streets

[scouserdave]

I've got a meet next week at The Athenaeum (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=athenaeum++Liverpool&spell=1) about a project called Liverpool's Original Seven Streets. Gardens (Paul) heard that you have offered your services doing the film shoots in this project. Look forward to meeting up some time:PDT_Piratz_26:

Any info and photos of the streets below would be appreciated. Thanks.
------------------------------------
Source (http://www.lmu.livjm.ac.uk/LHOL/content.aspx?itemid=176)
Castle Street, Dale Street, Bank Street, Juggler Street, Chapel Street, Moor Street and Whiteacre Street; three of these have kept their original name to the present day, Castle Street, Chapel Street and Dale Street.
Bank Street (Water Street) formed the southern upright of the H, running past the site of the present town hall into Dale Street.
The northern upright of the H consisted of Chapel Street, which continued into Moor Street (Tithebarn Street), these were connected in the middle by Juggler Street (High Street) which ran south into Castle Street, and north into Whiteacre Street (Old Hall Street).
There were two crosses in Juggler Street, the High cross at the junction with Dale Street and the White Cross at the junction with Chapel Street
------------------------------------

[scouserdave]

David Charters from the Echo will be interviewing Brenda Murray (Liverpool History Society) in the Athenaeum next Wednesday, so expect an article about the seven streets next week.http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Kev]

David Charters from the Echo will be interviewing Brenda Murray (Liverpool History Society) in the Athenaeum next Wednesday, so expect an article about the seven streets next week.http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Brilliant, I'll be looking forward to it :PDT_Piratz_26:

[The Gardens]

I received an email from Pat today, a website has been created for the project;

http://www.liverpools7streets.co.uk/

It only lists the street at the moment, keep an eye on it for updates.

[scouserdave]

I received an email from Pat today, a website has been created for the project;

http://www.liverpools7streets.co.uk/

It only lists the street at the moment, keep an eye on it for updates.
I registered it last week. Hopefully there'll be something on it when I return from Liverpool later this week.:PDT_Piratz_26:

[scouserdave]

BTW, meeting up with Tony Brown afterwards, so expect a 100 Heads (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16258201&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=100-heads-project-for-city-s-birthday-name_page.html) thread with a few photies:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Ged]

Hiya Dave. I think we met briefly at the Little Italy plaque unveiling (the 2nd one on the Pontack Wall) - it was afterwards in the Bishop Goss (st. Joey's) old school dinner hall where they were serving tea and biccies. Pat has been in touch with me also and I eargerly await the site being fully up and running and will see if I can contribute to it. Well done.

[scouserdave]

Hiya Ged,
I remember that. I really wanted to have a good chat with you, but I was looking after my mum at the time who was badly ill and couldn't stay too long. Sadly she passed away 11 days later on the 27th Feb.

[Ged]

Sorry to hear that Dave, we'll no doubt catch up again.

[scouserdave]

A load of us had an Echo interview with David Charters in The Athenaeum yesterday afternoon. He told us that it will go out Feb 3rd. He asked me for other website links relating to the 7 original streets. Checked out Yo:PDT_Xtremez_12: :Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

[PhilipG]

Any info and photos of the streets below would be appreciated. Thanks. [/B]------------------------------------
Source (http://www.lmu.livjm.ac.uk/LHOL/content.aspx?itemid=176)
Castle Street, Dale Street, Bank Street, Juggler Street, Chapel Street, Moor Street and Whiteacre Street; three of these have kept their original name to the present day, Castle Street, Chapel Street and Dale Street.
Bank Street (Water Street) formed the southern upright of the H, running past the site of the present town hall into Dale Street.
The northern upright of the H consisted of Chapel Street, which continued into Moor Street (Tithebarn Street), these were connected in the middle by Juggler Street (High Street) which ran south into Castle Street, and north into Whiteacre Street (Old Hall Street).
There were two crosses in Juggler Street, the High cross at the junction with Dale Street and the White Cross at the junction with Chapel Street
------------------------------------

I'm a bit late in answering, but what sort of information was required?
The story of the 7 streets is basically the story of Liverpool.

BTW, I don't want to sound like a "know-it-all", but I don't think Old Hall Street was called Whiteacre Street. I know what book that info came from, but most other sources say it used to be Mill Street or Mylne Lane (from the Mylne/Mill next to it).

These 3 maps are from one of Fritz Spiegl's packs.

[scouserdave]

I'm a bit late in answering, but what sort of information was required?

Not to worry. It's all been sorted. I was hoping to add some contributions from Yo. Thanks anyway:PDT_Piratz_26:

[PhilipG]

Dave, you asked for photos and info, regarding the 7 streets.
It's just too wide a subject to know just what to give you.

[scouserdave]

Dave, you asked for photos and info, regarding the 7 streets.
It's just too wide a subject to know just what to give you.
Regarding the photos, it's just 7 nearby streets, Phil. I photographed them all within an hour and an half this afternoon, including shooting some Dale Street/Water Street shots from the roof of Martins Bank.

[A.D.W]

including shooting some Dale Street/Water Street shots from the roof of Martins Bank.

How did you get you there Dave squire?

[scouserdave]

I told them I had an interest in the original 7 streets of Liverpool:celb (23):

[A.D.W]

Next time you wonder, ask.

Hey Dave! Are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.

Just asking, like.

:)

[scouserdave]

Hey Dave! Are you from Wales ?? Do you know a fella named Jonah ?? He used to live in whales for a while.

Just asking, like.

:)
So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.
:PDT_Piratz_26:

[A.D.W]

Indeed!

:)

[scouserdave]

Canny Farm:unibrow:

[A.D.W]

Canny Farm:unibrow:

Bless you.

:)

[scouserdave]

12th Jan 2007

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/wfrontyo.jpg

[Ged]

How did you get you there Dave squire?


Up the staircase I presume :)

[Ged]

Looks a bit stormy there Dave, a bit like this thread :)

[ChrisGeorge]

Looks a bit stormy there Dave, a bit like this thread :)

Gents, it seems to me this is an important thread despite the misunderstanding. I also think it is not too late to let the people who are doing the Seven Streets project know that Yo Liverpool has something to offer.

Chris

[scouserdave]

Gents, it seems to me this is an important thread despite the misunderstanding. I also think it is not too late to let the people who are doing the Seven Streets project know that Yo Liverpool has something to offer.

Chris
My first post on this thread (see below). What is there to misunderstand?

Any info and photos of the streets below would be appreciated. Thanks.
------------------------------------
Source
Castle Street, Dale Street, Bank Street, Juggler Street, Chapel Street, Moor Street and Whiteacre Street; three of these have kept their original name to the present day, Castle Street, Chapel Street and Dale Street.
Bank Street (Water Street) formed the southern upright of the H, running past the site of the present town hall into Dale Street.
The northern upright of the H consisted of Chapel Street, which continued into Moor Street (Tithebarn Street), these were connected in the middle by Juggler Street (High Street) which ran south into Castle Street, and north into Whiteacre Street (Old Hall Street).
There were two crosses in Juggler Street, the High cross at the junction with Dale Street and the White Cross at the junction with Chapel Street

[ChrisGeorge]

My first post on this thread (see below). What is there to misunderstand?

Any info and photos of the streets below would be appreciated. Thanks.
------------------------------------
Source
Castle Street, Dale Street, Bank Street, Juggler Street, Chapel Street, Moor Street and Whiteacre Street; three of these have kept their original name to the present day, Castle Street, Chapel Street and Dale Street.
Bank Street (Water Street) formed the southern upright of the H, running past the site of the present town hall into Dale Street.
The northern upright of the H consisted of Chapel Street, which continued into Moor Street (Tithebarn Street), these were connected in the middle by Juggler Street (High Street) which ran south into Castle Street, and north into Whiteacre Street (Old Hall Street).
There were two crosses in Juggler Street, the High cross at the junction with Dale Street and the White Cross at the junction with Chapel Street


I think I would have been in the same boat as Kev and Phil in not knowing exactly what was needed and that it was needed immediately.

[scouserdave]

It's never stopped anyone in the past posting pics and info at the drop of a hat on any given subject.

Excuses, excuses:unibrow:

[PhilipG]

I always remembered being told at school that the official address of most (if not all) Town Halls was 1 High Street.
Was anybody else ever told this?

[scouserdave]

I always remembered being told at school that the official address of most (if not all) Town Halls was 1 High Street.
Was anybody else ever told this?
Thanks Phil. We were wondering why it was changed from Juggler St to boring old High St.:PDT_Piratz_26:
Chris, I'd never heard of High St either until I got involved in this 7 streets thingy.

[ChrisGeorge]

I always remembered being told at school that the official address of most (if not all) Town Halls was 1 High Street.
Was anybody else ever told this?

Hi Philip

I don't recall being told that when I was in school in Liverpool. I do know that "High Street" is a common name for the main street in English towns. The American equivalent is "Main Street."

Chris

[PhilipG]

Hi Philip

I don't recall being told that when I was in school in Liverpool. I do know that "High Street" is a common name for the main street in English towns. The American equivalent is "Main Street."

Chris

I've just done a Google Search for "1 High Street" "Town Hall", and got 9,410 hits, so it looks like it was true.

[SteH]

I understand High Streets to be the main trading streets of towns, with the 'High' origins coming from a High Cross that will have been present as a natural meeting point. Liverpool's High Cross was taken down in the late 17th century to make way for the construction of the 2nd town hall.

Given that the official address of Liverpool Town Hall is Dale Street and there's very little left of High Street anyway I reckon we should start a campaign for it to be re-named back to Juggler Street.

[ChrisGeorge]

I've just done a Google Search for "1 High Street" "Town Hall", and got 9,410 hits, so it looks like it was true.

Interesting, thanks, Philip. Do we assume that "Juggler Street" was because of jugglers being at the Liverpool Fair?

By the way it looks as if they have been busy adding images to the Seven Streets website:

http://www.lmu.livjm.ac.uk/LHOL/content.aspx?itemid=176

I couldn't get the images to open beyond the thumbprint image. Maybe you will have more success.

Chris

[scouserdave]

Found this booklet in the Athenaeum library yesterday. Interesting read.
The Antiquity of Some Liverpool Streets
R. Saunders Jones, 1927

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/book001.jpg
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/book002.jpg
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/book003.jpg
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/book004.jpg
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/book005.jpg

[Kev]

Smashing pics Dave - there's some more Liverpool history here (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2684). (it mentions the streets and population numbers etc....

[ChrisGeorge]

Thank you, Dave, interesting information indeed!

Chris

[scouserdave]

Also found this map showing Liverpool in the 14th Century. High Street was already named.

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/map001.jpg

[shytalk]

I was one of the last people tested for a hackney carriage licence by the police in Roe St./Hood st. It was about 1966, not too sure exactly, the jurisdiction was then passed to the City Council and transfered to Gt.Crossall St.
The dept. was run by a very bad tempered police sergent, questions were asked orally. There were about six questions which most people failed on first time, one was "Where is the town hall?". Most people answered Dale st. his reply was come back when you learn where the town hall is. The correct answer was number 1 High st. :037:
After the Dept. moved it became a multiple choice written test and allowed a lot of drivers on the job who just did not know enough, the quality of service went downhill from there.

[SteH]

Also found this map showing Liverpool in the 14th Century. High Street was already named.

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/map001.jpg

Great map Dave, weird to think that then the area around Bold Street would have been in the countryside.

[Kev]

Imagine how imposing and impressive the buildings must have been way back then.

[PhilipG]

Thanks for the book and the map, Dave.
The map is a "Conjectural" map showing how it was thought Liverpool looked in the 14th century.
I think the References would date from whenever the map was drawn.

[scouserdave]

An update.

Informed today that the Council, along with Christina Clarke, Brenda Murray, Florence Gersten and Robin Riley have agreed to the wording to be put on the plaques for Liverpool's original seven streets. The council have also agreed to lift a york stone or granite flagstone up on each street and have it engraved with an emblem indicating the seven streets. The whole thing will be completed by August 2007.

There's also going to be a conference at the Town Hall on May 1st, hopefully with up to one thousand companies who have businesses in the seven streets. I've queried this figure, as I can't see how they could fit that many into the Town Hall. A few of us are organising a stand there with info about the seven streets.

Also Colin Harrison from the Chamber of Commerce has suggested organising a photo exhibition of the buildings in the seven streets, but this is still early days. I've got more than enough photos, but may shoot a few more just in case.

[ChrisGeorge]

There's also going to be a conference at the Town Hall on May 1st, hopefully with up to one thousand companies who have businesses in the seven streets. I've queried this figure, as I can't see how they could fit that many into the Town Hall. . . .

Time to draught in the Diddymen? :unibrow:

[scouserdave]

Time to draught in the Diddymen? :unibrow:
LOL!:unibrow:
Is there really 1,000 businesses in the seven streets?

[Ged]

Certainly could have been in the 80s when I worked in Shipping in Dale st. Tower buildings, India buildings and Silkhouse Court were full to the gunnels with shipping lines and agents, don't know so much about now though?

[taffy]

Found this booklet in the Athenaeum library yesterday. Interesting read.
The Antiquity of Some Liverpool Streets
R. Saunders Jones, 1927



Just spotted this post Dave. very fascinating. R Saunders Jones was a second generation Welshman living in Garston. Another one of those who intergrated. From memory I believe he was a local bank manager in St Mary's Rd.

[Kev]

An update.

Informed today that the Council, along with Christina Clarke, Brenda Murray, Florence Gersten and Robin Riley have agreed to the wording to be put on the plaques for Liverpool's original seven streets. The council have also agreed to lift a york stone or granite flagstone up on each street and have it engraved with an emblem indicating the seven streets. The whole thing will be completed by August 2007.

There's also going to be a conference at the Town Hall on May 1st, hopefully with up to one thousand companies who have businesses in the seven streets. I've queried this figure, as I can't see how they could fit that many into the Town Hall. A few of us are organising a stand there with info about the seven streets.

Also Colin Harrison from the Chamber of Commerce has suggested organising a photo exhibition of the buildings in the seven streets, but this is still early days. I've got more than enough photos, but may shoot a few more just in case.

Thats great news Dave - thanks for the info.

[scouserdave]

Cheers Kev. Taffy, thanks for the info. I'll pass this on to Pat Neil when I ring him later.

[Kev]

Does anyone do a tour around these 7 streets at the mo?

[scouserdave]

I think Pat Neil from www.liverpoolmonuments.co.uk has done one in the past. I'll ask him later if he's got anymore planned.

BTW, he's involved in one tomorrow over at Birkenhead. They'll be looking at the houses around Hamilton Sq, before moving on to Port Sunlight.

[A.D.W]

I have just put five videos on YouTube of the Town Hall. They were made during the open day of 25th August 2006. Not the best quality but.....

Part one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVDraijF82Y)

Part Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4pIQKgdeYs)

Part three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXOwhdx62ss)

Part four (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqr-6AbCDrI)

Part five (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2OA-9dQzjg).

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

[scouserdave]

I have just put five videos on YouTube of the Town Hall. They were made during the open day of 25th August 2006. Not the best quality but.....

Part one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVDraijF82Y)

Part Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4pIQKgdeYs)

Part three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXOwhdx62ss)

Part four (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqr-6AbCDrI)

Part five (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2OA-9dQzjg).

:PDT_Xtremez_42:

Dave, fantastic videos:handclap:
Is there any chance I could use them please? Pat Neil from www.liverpoolmonuments.co.uk edits our www.liverpools7streets.co.uk and I know he'd love them to be part of the website.

The last time I had a walk around the Town Hall was as a 9 year old. Our teacher (New Hutte, Halewood) at the time, Mrs Allen was the daughter of the Lord Mayor, Herbert Allen.

[A.D.W]

Dave, fantastic videos:handclap:
Is there any chance I could use them please? Pat Neil from www.liverpoolmonuments.co.uk edits our www.liverpools7streets.co.uk and I know he'd love them to be part of the website.

The last time I had a walk around the Town Hall was as a 9 year old. Our teacher (New Hutte, Halewood) at the time, Mrs Allen was the daughter of the Lord Mayor, Herbert Allen.

Feel free to link to the YouTube vids, Dave. I could 'send' you the 'original' ones if you like?

[scouserdave]

Feel free to link to the YouTube vids, Dave. I could 'send' you the 'original' ones if you like?
Thanks Dave, I'd love to have the original vids. I'll upload them to the 7 streets website and inform Pat. It goes without saying that you'll be credited as the source, as well as a link to your site (http://www.liverpoolviews.co.uk):PDT11

[lindylou]

Great vids. Thanks for sharing. :handclap:

[marie]

Sorry but, what is Athenaeum? A library?

[Kev]

Sorry but, what is Athenaeum? A library?

http://www.theathenaeum.org.uk/main.htm

[Kev]

ONE of the city’s final events to mark its 800th birthday has taken place, as Liverpool’s original seven streets were officially marked.

Plaques to show the first street plan, built at the behest of King John in 1207 and now forming the heart of today’s business district, have been installed to mark the importance of the roadways.

The original plan of Liverpool was a simple H-shape, consisting of Castle Street, Chapel Street, Dale Street, Bank Street, Juggler Street, Moor Street and Whiteacre Street.

Only the first three are still known by their original names, with Bank Street becoming Water Street, Moor Street becoming Tithebarn, Juggler Street evolved into High Street, and Whiteacre became Old Hall Street.

The plaques were launched yesterday by Cllr Berni Turner and the three women who have fought for more than two years to mark the historic trail – Barbara Murray, Florence Gersten and Christina Clarke.

However, the campaigners last night criticised Liverpool City Council for placing the plaques too high.

Barbara Murray said: “The whole idea was to let everybody know where the original part of Liverpool was.

“We are very angry to see that the plaques are fixed high up on the wall so that no-one can read the information – and if you can’t read them there’s no point in putting them up.”

However, a council spokesperson said that the plaques were put up as part of and in keeping with the Connecting Liverpool signage already around the city.

He said: “We are surprised at this criticism from the people involved, but they were shown the design and location and we are sorry they are disappointed.”

Patrick Neill, of Friends of Liverpool Monuments, which supported the efforts to have the streets marked, said: “I’m very pleased they’re up. The ladies have been campaigning for over three years to get something done to celebrate the city’s 800th birthday, so I am made up it’s been done eventually.”

The Friends of Liverpool Monuments have set up a website at www.liverpools7streets.co.uk for people to find out more about the historic project.

vickyanderson

[marky]

I noticed that some of the plaques are placed a bit high. It's a nice little walk trying to spot them all. I missed High Street, first time around.
They look exactly like those cheap looking heritage signs, scattered around town (the black circles with white border)