View Full Version : Liverpool Old Dock and Custom House
I was reading some information about Liverpool's Old Doc/ Steer's Dock that is currently beneath the new bus station and part of the Paradise Street Development (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2172) opposite the Police Headquarters.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/1664.jpg
How the area looked before the dock was constructed, Liverpool Castle still visible.
Apparently there has been something there since the 17th century and it wasn't until the Dock Act was passed in 1709 did Thomas Steers start the work on the recognisable dock as seen on the maps. It was partially opened in 1715 for shipping.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/1725.jpg
The dock is visible here, by now the castle was gone (1715)
Steers was supposed to have used the old bricks and stone from the Liverpool Castle ruins to construct the dock.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/1765.jpg
You can see the developing area around the dock
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/1795.jpg
In the years to come, Liverpool and its docks expanded and by the 19th century, problems became apparent, the small size of the dock plus its now isolated position with the north and south docks meant that with the introduction of the 1811 Liverpool Dock Act, the dock could be filled in. It stayed open until it was filled in a few years after.
Now this is where I became interested in Liverpool's Old Custom House that was built on the site. Certainly a candidate for the great lost buildings from Liverpool's past (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2425).
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/LGW005.jpg
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/customs%20house.jpg
Salt House Dock in the foreground
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/c%20house.jpg
You can see its proximity to the Albert Dock
How this building was lost is beyond me, it was heavily bombed during the war but the shell remained for many years afterwards. It should have been saved, no doubt :rolleyes::disgust:
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/1941.jpg
1941
Since then there has been a period of poor buildings being constructed once gems have been destroyed, something we are all regretting in this conservation conscious environment in 2006.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/1980s.jpg
Remember this in the years that came? Then in 2001 came the big clear-up for the forth coming PSD (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2172).
http://www.yoliverpool.com/images/dockhouse/2001.jpg
Chavasse Park in the distance
Its almost heart wrenching when you suddenly realise how important historical dock locations are being filled in. The developers have promised to put a section of the Old Dock on show with a viewing gallery.
http://www.liverpoolpsda.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C61AD1CC-D894-4934-9895-9549EB0412FD/332/Model_012.gif
snappel
11-30-2006, 09:34 PM
Its almost heart wrenching when you suddenly realise how important historical dock locations are being filled in. The developers have promised to put a section of the Old Dock on show with a viewing gallery.Amazing collection of images there Kev, thanks.
Yes, it would be good to see a bit of the Old Dock - I was excited enough just to see the George's Dock wall underneath the Cunard Building!! Imagine they'd dug up all those docks and built waterside promenades and that... It'd be so much better, far more unique and would make Liverpool a more desirable and unique tourist destination.
Waterways
11-30-2006, 11:05 PM
Amazing collection of images there Kev, thanks.
Yes, it would be good to see a bit of the Old Dock - I was excited enough just to see the George's Dock wall underneath the Cunard Building!! Imagine they'd dug up all those docks and built waterside promenades and that... It'd be so much better, far more unique and would make Liverpool a more desirable and unique tourist destination.
It would be good enough to see the whole of the Old Dock as you said. We had a perfect opportunity to dig it out and put it back. What a lost opportunity!!!! What goons run this city? Only in Liverpool. The world's first enclosed commercial dock.
The Customs house was not heavily bombed. It was fire bombed and the structure was totally intact. London decided that Customs would be centred in the south - another raping of Liverpool - so the building was demolished. In 1950 a proposal came in for a 50 plus floor glass block on the site - being Liverpool, of course it was turned down. Miraculously a similar design emerged in New York, called the Pan-Am building.
Thanks for the comments, once I started looking through the old maps of the area, I wanted to know much more. The change in land-use over time has interested me too, the area still retains its shape with the Chavasse Park bit once a maze of dwellings. Once the old sailors were off of the ships at the docks, I can only imagine to delights that awaited them in the pubs etc.. the atmosphere, the singing, the smells.....but now the PSD is going ahead, these might return, in a much more sumptuous environment!
Loosing the custom house though :PDT_Xtremez_12: :disgust:
ChrisGeorge
02-11-2007, 11:13 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/387106009_e967ea8260_o.jpg
This shot of me was taken during the promo recording of "Jack: The Musical" in October 2000 in Paris. The picture behind me is the Customs House, Liverpool by Atkinson Grimshaw, reminiscent of the docklands of the East End in the same period.
Chris
PhilipG
02-11-2007, 11:58 PM
I'm rather late coming to this.
The Castle wasn't on the site of the Old Dock.
The Castle was where Derby Square is, and the Old Dock was the site of the Custom House/Canning Place.
ChrisGeorge
02-12-2007, 01:21 AM
I'm rather late coming to this.
The Castle wasn't on the site of the Old Dock.
The Castle was where Derby Square is, and the Old Dock was the site of the Custom House/Canning Place.
Agreed. More correctly, I believe I am correct in saying that the Custom House and the Old Dock were on the site of the original Pool from which Liverpool derives its name.
Chris
PhilipG
02-12-2007, 01:48 AM
Agreed. More correctly, I believe I am correct in saying that the Custom House and the Old Dock were on the site of the original Pool from which Liverpool derives its name.
Chris
That's right, Chris.
knowhowe
03-02-2007, 12:17 PM
Yes, the 'Old Dock' was constructed in the bed of the tributary river- 'the Pool'- that curved round from the site of Canning Place, along today's Paradise Street and Whitechapel, where, at its head, the land was little more than a swamp. Whitechapel, in fact, was called Frog Lane "the strains from which (creatures) ever rose at dusk and did never cease till dawn".
The Williamson family drained this swamp when they laid out the square that still bears their name around 1700 but it is said that flooding was common in the area for years afterwards and that damp conditions prevailed in the cellars along Whitechapel and Paradise Street until fairly recent times..
There was a degree of criticism when the Old Dock was formed a few years later, many saying that, instead of creating just one dock, the course of the old Pool should instead have been excavated, deepened and widened and wharves created all along it, as was later the case in Bristol. This would have produced the remarkable effect of shipping coming right into the old town and their masts rising above the surrounding houses and shops- a wonderful concept!
Perhaps, too, such a splendid feature would not have been so casually done away with as was the case with the Old Dock and the new buildings rising all around the area today would have been wonderfully complemented bt this waterway running through their midst.
As it is, I agree that it is utterly unpardonable that the Old Dock was not not re-excavated as part of the redevelopment, as it so very easily could have been- a monument not just of major importance in Liverpool's history, but of that of Britain and beyond, for it set the standard for the way things would be done in the future and thus and changed the history of the world.
But that's the Grosvenors for you. Go here-
http://www.chesterwalls.info/newgate.html
- th learn how they trashed the largest and most completely preserved Roman bath house complex in Britain to erect their ghastly Grosvenor Precinct in the heart of Chester.
I agree, also, that the Customs House could easily have been restored. It suffered the same fate as the Museum- gutted by incendiaries, true, but with its shell complete and relatively undamaged. The Museum was wonderfully restored so why not the Customs House? What would it serve as today, as a centrepiece of Liverpool's world-reknowned waterfront buildings? A gallery, museum, civic centre, concert hall... who knows? It's too bad.
http://www.chesterwalls.info/gallery/customs.html
^^Thanks^^ - I agree :PDT_Xtremez_42: . What has been evident though through the 2007/2008 celebrations and the massive redevelopments around town is the interest that has been created surrounding liverpool's past.
customhouse
06-07-2007, 03:17 PM
G'Dai again !
While on the subject of Canning Place. One of the worst pieces of vandalism ever by a Civic Body, was the demolishing of the World Renowned Sailors Home. This was a beautiful building with a history second to none which would have been ideal for a Backpackers Hostel or something of that nature. I believe the only thing remaining, are the unique cast iron gates which were found somewhere in the Midlands, although I understand there is a scheme afoot to get them brought back to Liverpool. What tales that building could have told . An irreplaceable piece of Liverpool History lost forever. What price Culture without History ????
ChrisGeorge
06-07-2007, 03:29 PM
G'Dai again !
While on the subject of Canning Place. One of the worst pieces of vandalism ever by a Civic Body, was the demolishing of the World Renowned Sailors Home. This was a beautiful building with a history second to none which would have been ideal for a Backpackers Hostel or something of that nature. I believe the only thing remaining, are the unique cast iron gates which were found somewhere in the Midlands, although I understand there is a scheme afoot to get them brought back to Liverpool. What tales that building could have told . An irreplaceable piece of Liverpool History lost forever. What price Culture without History ????
Hi customhouse
I agree 1000% that the loss of the Sailors Home was a grievous loss to the heritage of Liverpool. Hopefully the Pooley Gates (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2444) can be brought back to Liverpool where they belong, which would be something although admittedly small recompense for the loss of this outstanding building. :(
Chris
Cadfael
11-01-2007, 12:43 PM
Another view - taken from 'Liverpool from the Air' Book:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff183/cadfael1976/Picture002.jpg
bazdad
10-03-2008, 10:42 AM
In reply to the old dock wall.
we are currently workin on the restoration of a section of the wall beneath the area of land between Jonh Lewis, the new Hilton hotel and the steps to the park. There is a viewing panel outside Lewis's that looks down on the north east corner of the wall, unfortunatly with the cleaning and other works going on, this window is sometimes misted up.
The works are due to finish around christmas time, and on completion there will be viewing galleries for poeple to see the wall.
I will try to post some photo's during this time, if anyone is interested
I will try to post some photo's during this time, if anyone is interested
Yes please!!!! Welcome to the site :PDT11
danensis
10-03-2008, 01:37 PM
G'Dai again !
While on the subject of Canning Place. One of the worst pieces of vandalism ever by a Civic Body, was the demolishing of the World Renowned Sailors Home. This was a beautiful building with a history second to none which would have been ideal for a Backpackers Hostel or something of that nature. I believe the only thing remaining, are the unique cast iron gates which were found somewhere in the Midlands, although I understand there is a scheme afoot to get them brought back to Liverpool. What tales that building could have told . An irreplaceable piece of Liverpool History lost forever. What price Culture without History ????
Yes, I've got some photographs somewhere of it being demolished - many of my pictures seem to be of grand buildings being wantonly destroyed - I just wish I knew where I'd put them!
John
wsteve55
10-04-2008, 10:01 PM
Isn't it odd, that nobody is ever identified as being responsible, for making these bloody awful decisions! They seem to get off "scot free", and get to keep thier backhanders!!!! Pity there's no one here with access to council meeting minutes,etc, and maybe we could give them some well deserved publicity :disgust:
Here's the elevated view again: LRO
Marymar
10-14-2008, 05:56 PM
I was fascinated to read your contribution and to see the photographs and maps, especially those that show the salt house. Can you tell me, please, whether there are any sources of information on people who worked as salt officers in Liverpool docks? I am researching a William Stephenson who was a salt officer c 1766, and would love to find out more about what his work involved.
Thanks for posting all this interesting information. I do hope more is done by the authorities to preserve Liverpool's past.
Ronijayne
05-20-2009, 06:43 AM
Amazing thread guys.
I thought my father worked in Canning Place but may be mis-remembering. He worked his whole life for E.H. Jones, I think it was E.H. Jones, Paint Ltd. Something like that. He started there at a teenager and retired in his 70's. One job all his life.
I think I have a pic of E.H. Jones premises in Canning Place.
A 1974 pic by Frank Lenhan from the book My Liverpool.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6154/canningplaceearlywareho.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canningplaceearlywareho.jpg)
.
fantastic view ged, cheers :)
ChrisGeorge
05-20-2009, 08:33 PM
Fine photograph, Ged. Thanks for sharing it with us. :handclap:
Chris :PDT_Aliboronz_24:
I've just spotted the mini, cheers for thinking of me Ged! :PDT11
Waterways
05-20-2009, 11:39 PM
The amount of times I must have driven around Canning Place and not noticed how wonderful it was!! It was all around us and we never appreciated how brilliant much of it was. When the philistines took it away we never complained. Are we as much to blame?
Looking along the Dock Rd with Canning Place the next corner on the left. The Customs House columns can be seen.
http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/114615/1/Salthouse-Dock,-Liverpool.jpg
scouse smurf
05-20-2009, 11:46 PM
The amount of times I must have driven around Canning Place and not noticed how wonderful it was!! It was all around us and we never appreciated how brilliant much of it was. When the philistines took it away we never complained. Are we as much to blame?
It's the same with anything local, u just take it for granted. Maybe we were brainwashed with being told how much things would be bigger and better than what's there but over the year we've come to realise that the powers that be usually talk total crap and now we kick up more of a fuss than we ever used to
Waterways
05-21-2009, 12:36 AM
EH Jones is at the top corner of Canning Place,
http://i42.tinypic.com/ajxenk.jpg
wsteve55
05-21-2009, 12:55 AM
Looks like the Huskisson statue is still in situ,a wonder,with the state of the customs house! Any idea of what year this is WW?
Ronijayne
05-21-2009, 01:27 AM
Ged, thank you so much. As soon as I saw the photo I burst into tears. I remembered it at once. My father was manager there.
When he was young and before he got 'called up' during the war, he started dating my mother. When he was on fire watch at night and had to be on the roof of EH Jones and watch for sparks or any kind of fire falling on the building (paint and fire, not good!) my mother who was 19 went and fire watched with him. When you think what they went through in those days! My mother still lives in Liverpool.
Again, thanks for the memories Ged.:PDT11
Ronijayne
05-21-2009, 02:44 AM
The photo says 1974 and it looks abandoned. I am pretty sure my father was still working as manager then and it was still a paint factory. They made huge drums of paint for schools and hotels etc. Lots for export.
Don't we petition in Liverpool when they take down buildings we would like to keep (not E.H. Jones), lol other buildings you are talking about?
I petitioned here for Radio City (Can you imagine what a loss that would have been, so Art Deco) Also for the Band Shell in Central Park. In the 30's and 40's the big bands, Dorsey, Glenn Miller etc came and played there right in the park and people would dress up and spend the evening dancing under the stars to Tommy Dorsey or whichever of the bands were here. I have seen old photos of hundreds of them dancing and having a wonderful time even when things were tough in their lives. In 1980 we had John's memorial there. Thousands of us stood in the cold and mourned the loss of the genius Lennon. How could I not petition for that. The only reason it was coming down was the people in those buildings on 5th said it spoiled their 'vista' of the park. Well too bad!! It does not block anything and it needs to stay. In the end, it was repaired and painted and stands proudly still. There was an orchestra playing there on Sunday. It is right by the building with the hawks.
Waterways
05-21-2009, 09:11 AM
1967: Bottom right hand corner EH Jones can be seen. The Customs House is still a ruined basement. Soon after it was cleared for the new office complex which lasted about 12-13 years.
The atmospheric warehouse area from South Castle St to the Dock Rd is still complete.
In Canning Dock, Abels yellow sand hoppers can be seen. The sand dredgers are out in the bay dredging sand. A ship is using the sheds, which were demolished only a few years ago - I recall a coaster offloading only about 8 years ago. The Landfall night-club ship (converted landing craft) can be seen in Canning Dock. The yellow items on the quays are tower cranes in pieces come over from Ireland.
Princes Dock is full. Trafalgar Dock has not been filled in. The Carpathia is at the landing stage. An Isle of Man ferry is setting sail.
Littlewoods Building is still not complete.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10344&d=1242888751
Waterways
05-21-2009, 10:37 AM
In the 1974 photo of Canning Place, posted by Ged, the buildings in the background at Canning Half-Tide Dock are the flag factory. They made flags for shipping lines and countries from all over the world.
The Porter Bros flag factory was at Kings Dock Mill on the Baltic Triangle.
Ged, thank you so much. As soon as I saw the photo I burst into tears. I remembered it at once. My father was manager there.
When he was young and before he got 'called up' during the war, he started dating my mother. When he was on fire watch at night and had to be on the roof of EH Jones and watch for sparks or any kind of fire falling on the building (paint and fire, not good!) my mother who was 19 went and fire watched with him. When you think what they went through in those days! My mother still lives in Liverpool.
Again, thanks for the memories Ged.:PDT11
Glad you liked it Roni.
There are some great colour pic books of old Liverpool, really good shots in this book including some more from around that area and also around Everton.
Ronijayne
05-22-2009, 12:31 AM
Ged, I loved it. That is where my Dad was from about 17 year old till he was about 75. He was a lovely, kind, intellegent, witty and friendly man. Also very handsome! I just got a feeling from the photo of my Dad who died in 1988.
Awww. Well he sure put some years in there didn't he. Almost part of the furniture as they say, part of the fabric of the building in all those, nearly 60 years.
Ronijayne
05-22-2009, 12:39 AM
Thanks Waterways, great photo of the waterfront. I can see E.H. Jones.
Davec
05-22-2009, 12:46 AM
Ged, I loved it. That is where my Dad was from about 17 year old till he was about 75. He was a lovely, kind, intellegent, witty and friendly man. Also very handsome! I just got a feeling from the photo of my Dad who died in 1988.
I'm well pleased for you Roni. Strangely enough my auld fella worked in a pub on the opposite corner just before the war, till he joined up. Then later, when he came home after the war he went back to work in the same pub, but sadly he died not too long after (1948), so those pics resonate with me too.
Dave.
Was it the Flying Dutchman pub Dave?
Davec
05-22-2009, 01:34 AM
Was it the Flying Dutchman pub Dave?
Yes Ged that's the one...corner of South Castle St.
I think I asked you for a pic of it once, to which you kindly assented.
Dave.
Waterways
05-22-2009, 10:09 AM
Thanks Waterways, great photo of the waterfront. I can see E.H. Jones.
The Customs House site had a proposal to build a tall skyscraper in 1951. Naturally the city foolishly turned it down. Miraculously a similar design emerged in New York, called the Pan-Am building.
http://www.panamair.org/History/Building/build.jpg
Yes Ged that's the one...corner of South Castle St.
I think I asked you for a pic of it once, to which you kindly assented.
Dave.
Ah, I remember now, I was just gonna say....
:PDT11
Ronijayne
05-23-2009, 03:29 AM
I'm well pleased for you Roni. Strangely enough my auld fella worked in a pub on the opposite corner just before the war, till he joined up. Then later, when he came home after the war he went back to work in the same pub, but sadly he died not too long after (1948), so those pics resonate with me too.
Dave.
Then it is quite possible out fathers could have met. My Dad was not a drinker but there had to be a birthday or some occasion where he would have gone to the pub with the guys he worked with. Nice thought anyway.
Ronijayne
05-23-2009, 03:40 AM
Awww. Well he sure put some years in there didn't he. Almost part of the furniture as they say, part of the fabric of the building in all those, nearly 60 years.
He did. Never took a sick day either. He used to get very cross when my sister and I took a sick day from work. I remember the beautiful gold watches my mother and he got from Mr. Jones when my Dad ws there 50 years.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.2 Copyright © 2010 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.