Cameo Cinema Film?

[MissInformed]

hey
i was looking at the Cameo Cinema Conspiracy book today, and it says there was a film being made about the case.
Anyone know if it ever saw the light?

[ChrisGeorge]

hey
i was looking at the Cameo Cinema Conspiracy book today, and it says there was a film being made about the case.
Anyone know if it ever saw the light?


Hello MissInformed

I reviewed George Skelly's book on the Cameo case for Ripperologist and also invited him to speak at the 2003 Ripper convention in Liverpool at the Britannia Adelphi. To my knowledge, no film of the Cameo case has been made and I don't know where the situation stands as regards getting one into production.

All the best

Chris

[MissInformed]

That's great Chris
It's just that at the back of the book, it says a film called the Cameo Conspiracy was in development.
Would be a really great idea!

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi MissInformed

The paperback copy of George Skelly's book that I have was published in 2001, and yes, it does say on the back that that "A major motion picture of The Cameo Conspiracy is currently in development." George was interviewed in Insight magazine (http://www.liv.ac.uk/insight/2005spring.pdf) in April 2005 (PDF file) and all it says there is that film rights have been bought. I do know that it often takes years, sometimes decades for a film to be made, with lots of ups and downs with different film studios picking up the option. This was the situation with "Schindler's List" as it progressed from the book by Thomas Keneally to the movie eventually made by Steven Spielberg. It is also the case with a film that was going to be made of the Maybrick Diary, called either "Ripper Diary" or "Battlecrease" which director William Friedkin wished to make starting in the mid-1990's but that still has not been made. I will attempt to contact George Skelly to see if he can give us an update on where things stand with making a film of The Cameo Conspiracy.

Best regards

Chris

[MissInformed]

wow! thank you so much chris!
It never fails to amaze me how helpful people are on here.
I am very interested in the Maybrick case. I remember reading that diary for the first time!

Cameo Conspiracy would be an excellent film

[Paul D]

My mother says she was in the cinema when this murder happened but she never really went into detail.

[MissInformed]

wow that's interesting!!

[ChrisGeorge]

My mother and her friend Ida attended the trial in St. George's Hall.

Chris

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi again MissInformed

I have not heard anything directly from George Skelly, although I have received some information that came from someone who knows the situation. Apparently there are still negotiations going on to clear the way to making such a film. If I hear more details from Mr Skelly or from this other person that I can reveal, I will pass it on.

Chris

[Waterways]

My mother says she was in the cinema when this murder happened but she never really went into detail.

The cinema was a converted church. It is still standing the last time I was down there. I recall as a kid the cinema name on the front.

[ChrisGeorge]

The cinema was a converted church. It is still standing the last time I was down there. I recall as a kid the cinema name on the front.

Hello Waterways et al.

Yes, Waterways, you are correct that the Cameo cinema was a converted church. I am fairly certain that the building was swept away some time ago. I do recall another red brick church higher up on the same side of Smithdown Road, near the junction of that road, Lodge Lane, and Tunnel Road, but it wasn't the same one that was the Cameo. The cinema stood at Bird Street and Webster Road by Garrick Street, opposite the Toxteth Park Cemetery.

This is the reason that all of the photographs you see of the Cameo are old ones, as in the BBC story on the overturning of George Kelly's conviction (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/2978838.stm) in June 2003 as being "unsafe."

If I am mistaken about this and the building that had been the Cameo is still there, please feel free to correct me, anyone, and post a photograph as it looks today, if possible. Steve Horton's site on the Cameo Case (http://www.geocities.com/stevenhortonuk/cameomurders.html) shows the site of the cinema today, and it is occupied by modern housing, so I believe I am correct that the building is gone.

Chris

[PhilipG]

Yes, it has gone.
For the record. It was built as the Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Chapel in 1887.
It was converted into a cinema in 1926 and closed in 1957.
It was then a warehouse at some stage, but it was mainly unused before being demolished about 1990, to be replaced by new housing.

This (reduced) photo is from a CD_ROM on sale at the Liverpool Record Office.
It's called Project P.O.O.L. (Photos of Old Liverpool).
There are over 650 images on it.
I bought mine a few years ago, but it's probably still on sale.

The white sports car belonged to the Inspector in charge.

[ChrisGeorge]

Thank you, Philip. Your post is most informative.

Chris

[shytalk]

After it closed it was in use as a reconditioning factory for television picture tubes, this went on into the late 60's that I know of but I have no idea what it was used for since.
I moved to 120 Salisbury Road in about 1950, there was a Street right behind the house that led to the Cameo, can't recall the name, I used to hop over the back wall as a shortcut to get there.:037:

[Waterways]

This is the reason that all of the photographs you see of the Cameo are old ones, as in the BBC story on the overturning of George Kelly's conviction (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/2978838.stm) in June 2003 as being "unsafe."


The BBC picture has a 1940s V8 Ford Pilot on the right. It was taken in the 1960/70s, as the cars show. The Ford Pilot was in immaculate condition and was owned by a man around there. Few 1940s cars were around by the late 1960s.

[Waterways]

After it closed it was in use as a reconditioning factory for television picture tubes, this went on into the late 60's that I know of but I have no idea what it was used for since.
I moved to 120 Salisbury Road in about 1950, there was a Street right behind the house that led to the Cameo, can't recall the name, I used to hop over the back wall as a shortcut to get there.:037:

Cranborne Road was between Webster Rd and Salisbury Rd. And still is.

[shytalk]

Cranborne Road was between Webster Rd and Salisbury Rd. And still is.
And your point is what exactly?

Fact, there is a road leading from Cranborne Rd. to Webster Rd. opposite this is a back alley which is immediately behind 120 Salisbury Rd. Go and look if you don't believe me.

I looked it up on the ordinance survey map, it is Dorset Ave. The cameo is still a chapel on this map.

[ChrisGeorge]

The BBC picture has a 1940s V8 Ford Pilot on the right. It was taken in the 1960/70s, as the cars show. The Ford Pilot was in immaculate condition and was owned by a man around there. Few 1940s cars were around by the late 1960s.

Okay, thanks, Waterways, good identification of the era of the cars in the pic.

Chris

[shytalk]

The Ford V8 Pilot had a one piece rear window. That picture doesn't appear too clear to me but it looks like that car had a 2 piece window. And it would be hard to tell if it is immaculate.
A hillman Imp is there, they were produced from 1961 to 1976, the white car looks like a Ford Zephyr Mk3 produced from 1962 to 1966.

http://funnycars.blogspot.com/2006/01/ford-pilot-v8.html

This is a Ford Pilot.

[Waterways]

The Ford V8 Pilot had a one piece rear window. That picture doesn't appear too clear to me but it looks like that car had a 2 piece window. And it would be hard to tell if it is immaculate.
A hillman Imp is there, they were produced from 1961 to 1976, the white car looks like a Ford Zephyr Mk3 produced from 1962 to 1966.

http://funnycars.blogspot.com/2006/01/ford-pilot-v8.html

This is a Ford Pilot.

It appears the car is not a Pilot. There was one always parked around there that was always in showroom condition.

It really was an ugly thing wasn't it? A clear pre-war design yet came out post war. One of the few British cars that had a V8 engine. With fuel being so expensive I see why it failed.

The Viva van, called the Bedford van, was made well after the Mk 1 Viva car stopped production in 1967. Made well into the 1970s.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi all

The chapel that became the Cameo Cinema is seen at the top of this helpful 1908 map available at Toxteth.net

http://www.toxteth.net/maps/liverpool/lpool1g.htm

Arrows on the map show available photographs and information on the Smithdown Road area. Toxteth.net: a great resource. :)

Chris

[Waterways]

Hi all

The chapel that became the Cameo Cinema is seen at the top of this helpful 1908 map available at Toxteth.net

http://www.toxteth.net/maps/liverpool/lpool1g.htm

Arrows on the map show available photographs and information on the Smithdown Road area. Toxteth.net: a great resource. :)

Chris

Click on the green chapel itself. The map is fully interactive. Click of the colours you see,

[ChrisGeorge]

Click on the green chapel itself. The map is fully interactive. Click of the colours you see,

Wow! Great. Thank you, Waterways.

Chris

[shytalk]

There was a milkman in Langton Rd. that had a Ford Pilot, it was always kept like new, the boot opened from the top and he carried his milk crates on it. He traded it for one of the first Escorts when I worked at the Ford dealer, I think the escort and Squire estates came out in 1956. That was the only Pilot I knew of in that area. There weren't too many cars in the area at that time, the one in my avatar was one of them.
If I had a better picture I could identify the car in question. It might be an Austin 16 from the immediate pre or postwar era.
The failure of the Pilot was unreliable mechanics, not powertrain but ancilliaries. It, in common with other Fords of the time had vacum operated wipers, the more you put your foot down the slower they went. It had a hybrid brake system, hydraulic twin leading shoe fronts and girling mechanical rears nowhere near efficient enough for a car as heavy and as quick. It had some luxuries though, I think it was the first mass production car to have radio as standard, an unusual feature was the antenna was under the left hand running board.
I had the experience of driving and working on these cars as an apprentice.

[Waterways]

There was a milkman in Langton Rd. that had a Ford Pilot, it was always kept like new, the boot opened from the top and he carried his milk crates on it. He traded it for one of the first Escorts when I worked at the Ford dealer, I think the escort and Squire estates came out in 1956. That was the only Pilot I knew of in that area.


Late 1960s early 1970s, one was about. As I said even in the 1960s few 1930s or 40s cars were about as they rotted like mad.



I had the experience of driving and working on these cars as an apprentice.

A few years back I drove a 1950s Ford Consul with column gears. Very weird. You don't realise how good cars are today. I had a go of a 1964 MGB - couldn't pull you out of bed, and that was a "sports car".

I once had a 1966 Ford Zepher with the long bonnet. Totally crap. My Ford Anglia's doors would burst open going around corners. The only decent old car was the Mini. It drove well, like going around corners on rails, and was 20 years ahead of its time.

[shytalk]

The '66 Ford Zephyr was reputed to be the worst car ever made by Ford. It was said they took every mistake they made since the model T and put them all in one car. I could write a volume of books on that subject.
I left the wavertree area in late 1959 so I would have no idea of what was in the area after then. The Pilot seemed to be one of the best regarding rusting, I've never really seen a badly rusted one.
The MGB was a non starter as a sports car, the Healy 3000 and the MGC(3 litre Austin engibe) left it standing. I had a triumph Vitessse 2 litre that would leave them all, a bit unstable on harsh cornering though unless a rear decambering kit was installed.

[Waterways]

The '66 Ford Zephyr was reputed to be the worst car ever made by Ford.


So the worst of worse bunch.



It was said they took every mistake they made since the model T and put them all in one car. I could write a volume of books on that subject.
I left the wavertree area in late 1959 so I would have no idea of what was in the area after then. The Pilot seemed to be one of the best regarding rusting, I've never really seen a badly rusted one.
The MGB was a non starter as a sports car, the Healy 3000 and the MGC(3 litre Austin engibe) left it standing. I had a triumph Vitessse 2 litre that would leave them all, a bit unstable on harsh cornering though unless a rear decambering kit was installed.


The chassis twisted as the whole front hinged up. The car was not rigid. Rigid cars corner better. It had an old Standard 2 litre engine, which was physically large.

I know of an a small 1300cc A series engine with modern management controlled fuel injection installed into an MGB and it went like mad.

[CanadianLad]

hey
i was looking at the Cameo Cinema Conspiracy book today, and it says there was a film being made about the case.
Anyone know if it ever saw the light?

if officially in production with Colin McKeown and Julia Stannard

[scouse exile]

One terrible secret has haunted the Cameo case for more than sixty years now. It was never disclosed at the original trial. It was never disclosed at the Appeal Court hearing which confirmed George Kelly's conviction. It was not even disclosed in the official transcript of the Criminal Cases Review Commission report, and subsequent granting of a posthumous pardon by the Appeal Court more than fifty years later in 2003. And yet it is widely known on Merseyside, mainly as a result of all the books on the subject.
It is in my opinion, as a former crime reporter, the gravest and most sinister miscarriage of justice in the history of English law. Ever since working as a young reporter in Liverpool I have found the case so disturbing that I have finally written a play on the subject and would welcome the chance to see it performed --- somewhere on Merseyside, obviously.
Just for the record, and emphatically not wishing to brag, I have had plays performed at drama festivals in Edinburgh and Buxton, and at The Lowry Centre in Manchester, winning several awards over the years.
And again, just for the record, my script deals with the terrible and officially unacknowledged Cameo Secret.

[Harryboy]

What gives here chaps with the cryptic messages?.
Cant understand what Canadian Lad's last post meant. Would he care to explain? Also Scouse Exile. If your gonna have the play publicly performed, why cant you tell us all what the "secret" is- specially since you say it is already in all the books about the crime?

[scouse exile]

If you know the story you know the secret. If you don't why spoil the play?

[Ged]

If it's already in the public domain as in, can be read in any library, then surely it's not a secret but best of luck with the play anyway.

[Harryboy]

If you know the story you know the secret. If you don't why spoil the play?

There was loads of new information in the books that was never in the public domain before they were published. So your "secret" could be anything. But if it is already in the books,as you say, then by definition it's not a "secret". Nobody's trying to spoil your play but it seems your just teasing people and friviously using the so-called secret as a marketing ploy.

[scouse exile]

You got me, Harryboy. That's the sort of sneaky thing that writers do. But do remember I meant to imply that the secret had been kept from the judge and the jury at the time. Possibly even from the lovely Rose Heilbron KC who led for the Defence although I have a feeling she knew it, too, but didn't dare to mention it.

[Harryboy]

Sorry Scouse, but I'm afraid your ploy aint working!
After 2 books and the full Appeal Court Judgement, there just aren't any unknown secrets left about the Cameo case. As for Heilbron, she didn't know the half of it anyway. so it wouldn't surprise me if she knew nothing about your "secret".
I'm sure the writers, Skelly and Shortall would be surprised to know how many "secrets" they missed - especially after them spending years researching the case!
Writers also sometimes like to play God.Is that what you are playing at?

[scouse exile]

Not working, Harryboy? It's certainly got you going. Now listen --- if I told your best mate that I didn't like you ( which I would never do, of course ) but didn't tell you, that fact would be known to him but a secret so far as you were concerned. Secrets are subjective. That's all I'm saying about the Cameo trial. Facts were kept from the judge and the jury and possibly dear old Rosie. At the time. But thanks for keeping it going by the way.
:handclap:

[Famous Scouser]

You got me, Harryboy. That's the sort of sneaky thing that writers do. But do remember I meant to imply that the secret had been kept from the judge and the jury at the time. Possibly even from the lovely Rose Heilbron KC who led for the Defence although I have a feeling she knew it, too, but didn't dare to mention it.

You mean the useless Rose Heilbron surely?

Yeah right..... a secret. You better keep quiet then.

[Harryboy]

Not working, Harryboy? It's certainly got you going. Now listen --- if I told your best mate that I didn't like you ( which I would never do, of course ) but didn't tell you, that fact would be known to him but a secret so far as you were concerned. Secrets are subjective. That's all I'm saying about the Cameo trial. Facts were kept from the judge and the jury and possibly dear old Rosie. At the time. But thanks for keeping it going by the way.
:handclap:

Sorry Scouse, wrong again! Surely if he was my best mate, he'd tell me right away? Thus, no secret anymore!
By the way, dont talk to readily about "facts". They are things which have to be PROVED. Are you sure you can do that in your play without being sued?!

[Famous Scouser]

Maybe he's got the gun Harry!

[scouse exile]

Point 1: In law you can't libel the dead -- and all the ones that matter are dead.
Point 2: I've always reckoned the gun was in the Mersey.
Point 3: About your best friend being relied on to tell you -- I have to tell you, Harryboy, your powers of logic operate in a parallel universe where I can't be with you.

[Harryboy]

Point 1: In law you can't libel the dead -- and all the ones that matter are dead.
Point 2: I've always reckoned the gun was in the Mersey.
Point 3: About your best friend being relied on to tell you -- I have to tell you, Harryboy, your powers of logic operate in a parallel universe where I can't be with you.

Since you quote the law Scouse, one can still be prosecuted for CRIMINAL libel even though the subject of the libel is long dead. As a former journalist, thought you would have known that.
As for my best mate. I've just asked him and he assured me he would not withold any secrets from me! (He's a good lad actually).
A final question, if your play is eventually produced, how will we know what the secret is? Are you going to be on stage as the narratorr, to inform the audience the moment the secret emerges in the performance. Or will we still have to guess what it is?

[AntiPathos]

I thought it odd that a two-and-a-half year old thread was bumped with this message:


if officially in production with Colin McKeown and Julia Stannard

And then from the other Cameo thread on here:


...There is a movie being made, the screenplay is almost done, and the film will give George and Charles the trial they never got. Trust me. Anyone who played a part in clearing their name will be remembered.


[a film script is] being written by two other writers, based on George's book...

All sounding very well informed. And then there was all this gumpf typed firmly in standard-issue filmspeak (I can hear Don LaFontaine gruffing this out from beyond the grave):


...isn't this whole thing about a man who died for no other reason except for the fact he was poor. An easy target. It's not about who knows more, who knows less, or who got money. What happened to George and Charles was an affront on all of us.

When we stand back and allow those things to get in the way of the story and what should be remembered, we lose. They lose. We must learn from our history. George Kelly died because due process was denied. His rights to a civil and fair trial were denied.

They just didn't fight for George Kelly, they fought for every person who was ever denied their basic inalieable human rights.

And so anyway I thought about what you'd written above and asked around a little and learned a few things and I'd like to now ask you if there's anything you'd like to tell us about your involvement in the production of this screenplay ? I'm not trying to do you down, honestly I'm not. I'm just asking :)


george is being kept aware on it and being asked for advice and info, so yes, George is involved and being the respect he so deserves

Good to hear. Are you quite sure it's true though ?

Until next time...

[Harryboy]

Some very good points there, Anti.
What I was wondering was, who does Canadian Lad mean when he says,.
"THEY didn't just fight for George Kelly.." Who does he mean? As far as I know it was only George Skelly and Lou Santangeli who fought to expose the truth (including Scouser's "secrets"!). So I hope he doesnt mean, the solicitors and the Kelly family, who as far as I know, did nothing for 50 odd years. In fact, according to Famous Scouser, on the other Cameo thread ,there's not even a stone on Kelly's grave 6 years after his remains being re-buried.

[scouse exile]

I have to tell you, Harryboy, jousting with you is not so much a meeting of minds as a collision --- quite exciting at the time but you wish you'd managed to get out of the way in time and thus preserve your sanity.
For possibly, if there is a God, the last time, can I say that you KNOW the secret, as do many others who have studied the case,but thousands, perhaps millions of others ---if my play ever gets to Broadway, with, of course, your kind assistance --- don't. It's their attention I'm seeking. It's their gasps of astonishment I may one day hear. And it's their tears I finally would like to see being shed, for the victim of the greatest criminal conspiracy the English legal system has ever condoned.

[Harryboy]

I have to tell you, Harryboy, jousting with you is not so much a meeting of minds as a collision --- quite exciting at the time but you wish you'd managed to get out of the way in time and thus preserve your sanity.
For possibly, if there is a God, the last time, can I say that you KNOW the secret, as do many others who have studied the case,but thousands, perhaps millions of others ---if my play ever gets to Broadway, with, of course, your kind assistance --- don't. It's their attention I'm seeking. It's their gasps of astonishment I may one day hear. And it's their tears I finally would like to see being shed, for the victim of the greatest criminal conspiracy the English legal system has ever condoned.

Well thanks for the backhanded compliment Scouse. But I AGAIN ask: how can it be a secret if, as you emphasie,I KNOW it?!
One of my previous incarnations, you may be surprised to know, was that of Drama Critic, So before you bypass local repeterory theatres and the West End on your way to Broadway,(such grandiose confidence...or arrogance?) perhaps if I could have a gander at your Play I may be able to tell you if you have a smash hit masterpiece on your hands..or a dead duck!

[Famous Scouser]

Quack quack!

[scouse exile]

Not unless you promise faithfully to go on a course to learn how to spell 'repertory'. I'm surprised at you, Harryboy, you having been a journalist and all -- as you were pleased to remind me.

[Harryboy]

Really Scouse! Scraping the bottom of the barrel now aren't we?
You complain about others thinking they OWN the Cameo case. But it is you who gives the impression - by virtue of your "secret" that you are the sole proprietor.
You admit that you discovered your "secret" from one or both of the two books published on the case. Yet you have not once acknowledged the years of research and painstaking hard work which essentially must have been undertaken by the authors, Skelly and Shortall.
In view of this, many may consider you to be a mere Johnny-Come-lately opportunist exploiting the hard work of others. But I'm sure that couldn't be the case...could it?!

[scouse exile]

Have y'all seen the Views we've had? Thanks guys. You've done most of my work for me. And as for letting you see the script, Harryboy, would you let King Herod babysit your kids?

[scouse exile]

Guys, this is a copy of a message I've put on the other thread. We've had a lot of fun over the last few days but personally I'd hate to think we had caused any more pain to those for whom the Cameo Cinema case remains a family matter --- and a distressing one at that. I'm sure you all feel the same.

[Harryboy]

I'll drink to that Scouse. It was fun having the debate with you.
And, seriously, good luck with your play. Hope you get it performed...and that you give me a comp!!