Liverpool's Seven Hills?

[bobbymac]

Liverpool is supposed to be built on seven hills,probably more, but just need the main ones. Can anyone help???:gossip:

[Kev]

Liverpool is supposed to be built on seven hills,probably more, but just need the main ones. Can anyone help???:gossip:

Mossely Hill, Woolton Hill..

[The Teardrop Explodes]

Olive Mount
Everton Brow
Camp Hill

[sweetpatooti]

Brownlow Hill, Sleepers Hill, Mount Pleasant

[bobbymac]

Great going guys, TA. but which is 'Camp hill?

[theninesisters]

You've got:

1 - Woolton Ridge which gives you Childwall Valley
2 - Olive Mount
3 - Mossley Hill
4 - High Park
5 - Everton Valley
6 - Everton Brow which leads to Everton Valley

They seem to be the main ones.

Camp Hill is in Woolton - comes from the Saxon settlement there though there's no trace of it now - the place is excellent for sledging in the winter when we get some snow and you're a big kid!

[scouserdave]

A rare pic showing how steep Everton Brow is.
http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/stmarys.jpg

[scouserdave]

Another unusual shot showing off the hill. The two cathedrals look they've been copied and pasted on to the pic but I can assure you they weren't:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24: :)

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/hill.jpg

[scouserdave]

Looking towards Everton Brow. Taken last week. St George's Church (The "Cast Iron Church"), Heyworth Street is visible in the far left, top of the pic.

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/hill2.jpg

[lindylou]

Brownlow Hill, Sleepers Hill, Mount Pleasant

What about Walton On The Hill.

.... heading from Rice lane - city bound - under the flyover .. still going up hill onto County rd (Walton church to the left) .. down County rd towards Walton rd and Everton Valley.

Sometimes it's not realised that there is an incline there. The flyover hides the hill there.

[PhilipG]

It looks like Liverpool has more than 7 hills.
Isn't it the Seven Hills of Rome?

[scouserdave]

What about Walton On The Hill.

.... heading from Rice lane - city bound - under the flyover .. still going up hill onto County rd (Walton church to the left) .. down County rd towards Walton rd and Everton Valley.

Sometimes it's not realised that there is an incline there. The flyover hides the hill there.
Some of my piccies were taken from the tower of St Mary's, Walton-On-The-Hill:PDT_Piratz_26:

[ChrisGeorge]

You've got:

1 - Woolton Ridge which gives you Childwall Valley
2 - Olive Mount
3 - Mossley Hill
4 - High Park
5 - Everton Valley
6 - Everton Brow which leads to Everton Valley

They seem to be the main ones.

Camp Hill is in Woolton - comes from the Saxon settlement there though there's no trace of it now - the place is excellent for sledging in the winter when we get some snow and you're a big kid!

Wonderful pics as usual Scouserdave!

Camp Hill (http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Leisure_and_culture/Parks_and_recreation/Parks_and_gardens/Camphill_and_Woolton_Woods/index.asp) dates back further than Saxon times to the Iron Age, and appears to have been a hill fort similar to others around the British Isles, although I don't believe this has been confirmed by archaeology. If it was such a fort, it thus would have been contemporary with the Helsby Hill Iron Age fort (http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/v/helsby/) across the Mersey.

Chris

[Sloyne]

Edge Hill, Low Hill.

[Bunnyman]

Bernard Hill.

[scouserdave]

Bernard Hill.
LOL! Mark!
Almost choked on my cup of tea reading this:celb (23):
BTW, what happened last week? Tried to ring ya. Maybe next time:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Bunnyman]

Alright Dave. I PM'd you my new number. Didn't have any missed calls when I checked after footy. I'll send it to you again. Carefully this time... :PDT_Aliboronz_11:

[Max]

This hilly city is a nightmare for bikes going up a hill.:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

[Kev]

This hilly city is a nightmare for bikes going up a hill.:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

You're a strong lad Max, its good exercise for you, killer on the knees though eh?!

[Max]

You're a strong lad Max, its good exercise for you, killer on the knees though eh?!


On the right knee and the calves yeah.

I get good exercise with over 300 kg leg presses and treadmill though.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[scouserdave]

This hilly city is a nightmare for bikes going up a hill.:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:
I love cycling. Once done Islington to the Pier Head in 5 minutes. Don't recall the time on the return trip. All I remember is the ambulance lads administering me oxygen when I passed out and Sherpa Tenzing Norgay giving me the ****ing kiss of life. Tenzing had luvly lips, btw.

[Max]

Earl Road is more evil than Islington to ride or like the ****e end of Smithdown Road.:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

[scouserdave]

Earl Road is more evil than Islington to ride or like the ****e end of Smithdown Road.:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:
You reckon the drop down from Islington to the Pier Head is less steeper than from Earl Rd? No way pal! LOL! I love these cockfights whether I lose or not. Scousers Rule!:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Max]

Yeah, it's steeper than Islington, I only ride through Islington though to get to the gym on Salisbury Road though.

One road by Everton Park Sports centre was the steepest Road I rode down and I forgot to fix my brakes and I was using my feet to stop the bike! Could of crashed into a car on the road!:eek:

I crashed into the steps by the Anglican Cathedral at night just outside it on that steep hill once too but luckily, my feet managed to slow it down enough to hit one of my bones so it was nothing.

Hurt my feet doing that and absorbing the impact.

Fixed my brakes now though, pain in the arse bike. :mad:

[scouserdave]

Alright Dave. I PM'd you my new number. Didn't have any missed calls when I checked after footy. I'll send it to you again. Carefully this time... :PDT_Aliboronz_11:
I'm not gay or anything like that, but you are good company mate!:PDT_Piratz_26:

[Kev]

I'm not gay or anything like that, but you are good company mate!:PDT_Piratz_26:

I will not change the forum colour scheme either to pink, its staying blue.

[scouserdave]

I will not change the forum colour scheme either to pink, its staying blue.
LOL!/Splatter! (cuppa tea)
Nice one Kev!:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Max]

Change it to Red.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Gerry Jones]

Getting back to the actual hills again, nobody seems to have come up with a definitive or "official" list, just people kindly offering their own thoughts.
Starting with NineSisters list, I don't think we can just go by streets which have something hilly in their name.

1 - Woolton Ridge Camp Hill is in Woolton
2 - Olive Mount but is this the same Hill as Edge Hill and Old Swan.
which then continues to the top of Upper Parly.
3 - Mossley Hill - agreed, the church being on a definite summit,.
4 - High Park in the Dingle, plenty of slopoimng streets down there, but there is the point they all slope up to?
5 - Everton Brow which leads to Everton Valley, and then along Everton Ridge
6 - Mount Vernon which seems to be the peak of Mount pleasant which goes up again via Oxford Street.,

Breeze Hill leads up to where? Sleepers Hill, similar.

On a related point, Ken Pye in his excellent book definitely refers to the Seven Hills on which Liverpool is built. I would love to contact him and ask him about his sources, and indeed his list. Anyone got any contacts?

[PhilipG]

Surely, it's the Seven Hills of Rome, not Liverpool.
Liverpool has two ridges which are probably more noticeable than its hills.
The answer will be in a contour map of the area.

[Gerry Jones]

I think we have now found the answer, or at least as definitive as we are likely to get., i.e. from KEN PYE in what must be the best ever history of Liverpool, his £20 book, "Discover Liverpool" (If you haven't got it yet, GET IT! worth every penny , and more)

on page 124, he says; "Liverpool is built on seven major hills, and these are;
Walton Hill
Everton Ridge
High Park/Toxteth Ridge
Mossley Hill,
Allerton Hill
Olive Mount
Woolton Ridge.

So now you know.
As soon as you start checking these out you start to realise that most of the roads with Hill in the name are just sloping streets, and you have to keep going until you stop going UP.
Try Brownlow Hill and Mount Pleasant, clearly NOT two separate Hills, and even when they have joined by the University Clock Tower, the road towards Edge Lane goes rising past PAddington and Mount Vernon where it meets LOW Hill, and you still have to ask, is that the summit? From Edge Hill CHurch the roads mostly go down, but along Towerlands, etc south, things stay fairly level rather than going down, and do they in fact go down at all, making this area - including the "missing" Edge Hill - part of the rising land that tops out at Olive Mount.

Certainly contour maps are needed for the true answer, but Landranger Sheet 108 has got so much built-up area that there is hardly a contour line to be seen.

Anyway, there you have it; the Seven Hills of Liverpool. Sorted.

[TonyS]

Hi,

This is taken from Underground Liverpool, by Jim Moore.

http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/misc/liverpolhills.jpg

[Kev]

Excellent info cheers :handclap::PDT11

[shoney]

usually between hills you get rivers, bar for the mersey and the river alt in huyton, i can't think of any others

[H_Asbo]

I think we have now found the answer, or at least as definitive as we are likely to get., i.e. from KEN PYE in what must be the best ever history of Liverpool, his £20 book, "Discover Liverpool" (If you haven't got it yet, GET IT! worth every penny , and more)

on page 124, he says; "Liverpool is built on seven major hills, and these are;
Walton Hill
Everton Ridge
High Park/Toxteth Ridge
Mossley Hill,
Allerton Hill
Olive Mount
Woolton Ridge.

So now you know.
As soon as you start checking these out you start to realise that most of the roads with Hill in the name are just sloping streets, and you have to keep going until you stop going UP.
Try Brownlow Hill and Mount Pleasant, clearly NOT two separate Hills, and even when they have joined by the University Clock Tower, the road towards Edge Lane goes rising past PAddington and Mount Vernon where it meets LOW Hill, and you still have to ask, is that the summit? From Edge Hill CHurch the roads mostly go down, but along Towerlands, etc south, things stay fairly level rather than going down, and do they in fact go down at all, making this area - including the "missing" Edge Hill - part of the rising land that tops out at Olive Mount.

Certainly contour maps are needed for the true answer, but Landranger Sheet 108 has got so much built-up area that there is hardly a contour line to be seen.

Anyway, there you have it; the Seven Hills of Liverpool. Sorted.

You forgot Rupert hill.

Err and Copperas hill

I think the question is related to names with hills in?

If so its

Copperas Hill

Brownlow Hill

Rupert Hill

Low Hill

Edge Hill

Sleepers Hill

Mossley Hill

[Gerry Jones]

Thank you so much, Tony S, (and Jim Moore)for that line drawing of the hills. That makes it all so muich clearer and has saved me some hours of work. Just add Walton (on the) Hill at the top and we are just about there.

I am currently scanning OS map 108 to see what I can make out in terms of contour lines, and I'll report back. Here are two which look promising, with a clear complete contour circling a summit. They fit in nicely with High Park on Jim Moore's picture, and the hill he does not name to the west of Woolton Ridge, which Ken Pye names as Allerton Hill, centred as it is on Allerton Golf course.

Jim's picture also gives us a good start to the waterways in the valleys for Shoney. Tue brook , Ditton Brook and of course the river that flowed down what became Church Street Lord Sreet to the Pool. The "River Jordan" as Ken Pye says the watercourse through Sefton Park lake is called , would be one of the streams running into the Mersey.

Sorry , H Asbo, but we ARE talking about actual summits, rather than roads which lead upwards ( or down). You're right that there are a lot more than seven "hill" named streets.

My two map sections should enlarge, and mayeb you could save as or something. I don't know how to put large images in the message.

[Waterways]

I think we have now found the answer, or at least as definitive as we are likely to get., i.e. from KEN PYE in what must be the best ever history of Liverpool, his £20 book, "Discover Liverpool" (If you haven't got it yet, GET IT! worth every penny , and more)


£13 on Amazon. :)

[tommygun]

I think we have now found the answer, or at least as definitive as we are likely to get., i.e. from KEN PYE in what must be the best ever history of Liverpool, his £20 book, "Discover Liverpool" (If you haven't got it yet, GET IT! worth every penny , and more)

on page 124, he says; "Liverpool is built on seven major hills, and these are;
Walton Hill
Everton Ridge
High Park/Toxteth Ridge
Mossley Hill,
Allerton Hill
Olive Mount
Woolton Ridge.

So now you know.
As soon as you start checking these out you start to realise that most of the roads with Hill in the name are just sloping streets, and you have to keep going until you stop going UP.
Try Brownlow Hill and Mount Pleasant, clearly NOT two separate Hills, and even when they have joined by the University Clock Tower, the road towards Edge Lane goes rising past PAddington and Mount Vernon where it meets LOW Hill, and you still have to ask, is that the summit? From Edge Hill CHurch the roads mostly go down, but along Towerlands, etc south, things stay fairly level rather than going down, and do they in fact go down at all, making this area - including the "missing" Edge Hill - part of the rising land that tops out at Olive Mount.

Certainly contour maps are needed for the true answer, but Landranger Sheet 108 has got so much built-up area that there is hardly a contour line to be seen.

Anyway, there you have it; the Seven Hills of Liverpool. Sorted.


Thanks Gerry found this information very interesting.

[Gerry Jones]

usually between hills you get rivers, bar for the mersey and the river alt in huyton, i can't think of any others

Shoney is quite right; there must be rivers, there are only two named Rivers, but there are (or were) quite a few watercourses of one sort or another.
Luckily for Shoney - and the rest of us - there have been quite a few really good books come out recently, one of which is "Underground Liverpool". Drop a birthday hint for this one; it explains all about the tunnels, and the wells, and the sewers and watercourses of Liverpool. What about Sugar Brook, Fluker's Brook, Ditton Brook,... and the River Jordan?
In fact at present you can see the river Jordan; it is the watercourse which links the waters in Sefton Park before going underground to Otterspool. With the lower Lake drained, you can see a narrow meandering shallow stream wandering across the middle of the mud - this has just got to be the Jordan.
For everything else, Buy The Book! ("You deserve it")
Gerry

[wsteve55]

Tuebrook is another buried watercourse, and Mount Pleasant was, apparently,artificial, to some degree,at least! This was another job creational exercise by Joseph Williamson,so it wasn't just tunnels,etc, he built!(but dont ask me to explain what was there before:nod:)

[taffy]

Shoney is quite right; there must be rivers, there are only two named Rivers, but there are (or were) quite a few watercourses of one sort or another.
Luckily for Shoney - and the rest of us - there have been quite a few really good books come out recently, one of which is "Underground Liverpool". Drop a birthday hint for this one; it explains all about the tunnels, and the wells, and the sewers and watercourses of Liverpool. What about Sugar Brook, Fluker's Brook, Ditton Brook,... and the River Jordan?
In fact at present you can see the river Jordan; it is the watercourse which links the waters in Sefton Park before going underground to Otterspool. With the lower Lake drained, you can see a narrow meandering shallow stream wandering across the middle of the mud - this has just got to be the Jordan.
For everything else, Buy The Book! ("You deserve it")
Gerry


You can see the River Jordan in Otterspool Park as it comes out from the culvert under Aigburth Rd from Sefton Park. There are a few other culverted streams in the area. The one from Princes Park which formed what was once called Dickenson's Dingle and crosses Aigburth Rd at the bottom of the big dip ( ie valley) near Parkfield Rd. Similarly in Garston, the stream that was dammed to form the lake in Calderstones park is now culverted all the way to Garston Docks where it discharges.

[Kev]

Similarly in Garston, the stream that was dammed to form the lake in Calderstones park is now culverted all the way to Garston Docks where it discharges.

Fascinating Taffy, cheers once again. Do u have a pic of that area in Garston?

[Waterways]

The stream that fed the original Liver-pool is still there under Williamson Square, where it fed into the pool. I am not sure where it enters the river.

If only they locked in the pool, like they did with Wallasey Pool, instead of creating the Old Dock. Then boats would be right up to Williamson Square. That would make a very attractive city indeed.

[wsteve55]

Right WW,
that ran from Moss lake,which was somewhere around Islington,down William Brown st,along Williamson sqr,Whitechapel,through to Paradise st, then into the "pool". The remains of a footbridge over this, were dug up during construction of the Macdonalds building(formerly Horne Bros,etc),which is at the junction of Lord st. :nod:

[taffy]

Fascinating Taffy, cheers once again. Do u have a pic of that area in Garston?

The only photo I recall showing one of the streams was in the small valley alongside Speke Rd where the incinerator plant later tram/ bus depot was sited. I'll see if I can find it.

In Garston you can tell where the streams were by the local topography. The slopes of Speke Rd, St Mary's Rd and Church Rd all meet at the bottom of the valley formed by the stream. This was one reason why the Mona castle pub had to be demolished. Part of the foundations were built on rock and the other on the river bed. Hence the building subsided. The same has happened to a less extent to the old Queen's pub, now the Stables.

If you type Garston into the search box in

http://www.old-maps.co.uk

and select the Lancashire Garston and look at the 1849 map, you can see the route of the streams coming into Garston. You'll recall photographing the old Garston Mill site opposite St Michael's Church. The water mill of course was sited next to the stream which then made its way along the route of Dale St ( ie valley street) to the river Mersey.

[Kev]

Thanks Taffy, I'm sure we've had this conversation before. Maybe I've asked this before too: My nan and grandad both Lived on Argyle Road off Russell Road and they said their house had a stream running underneath. Any ideas?

[taffy]

Thanks Taffy, I'm sure we've had this conversation before. Maybe I've asked this before too: My nan and grandad both Lived on Argyle Road off Russell Road and they said their house had a stream running underneath. Any ideas?

I suspect your grandparents are right. I don't know the exact course of the streams in that area in relation to modern streets but nearby Island Farm was so named as you had to cross a few streams to get to it.

[Howie]

Hi Kev

Just got back from 5 days in a city that is built on seven hills - Sheffield. Apologies in advance to Waterways but I've been travelling about on one of those strange things there (pictured below) and thought they were quite good. :)

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~howardpaterson/uploads/IMG_0033.jpg

[Kev]

Thats not u in the window is it H?

[Howie]

Thats not u in the window is it H?

No Kev, I was holding the camera.

PS Have posted a couple more snaps of Sheffield here (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13514).

[Kev]

No Kev, I was holding the camera.

PS Have posted a couple more snaps of Sheffield here (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13514).

I thought u were giving a big cheesy smile mate, your sheff pics are nice!

[Waterways]

Hi Kev

Just got back from 5 days in a city that is built on seven hills - Sheffield. Apologies in advance to Waterways but I've been travelling about on one of those strange things there (pictured below) and thought they were quite good. :)


A pity when they are: stuck in traffic jams, cause traffic jams, trundle at walking pace in rush hour, shake adjacent buildings, screech around corners and look ugly with all the overhead wires. For efficient train systems you need grade separation - in other words, uninterrupted progress and separated from other types of transport and people That usually means underground or elevated rail systems in congested centres.

Liverpool doesn't need such expensive and nasty things as we have a grade separated metro system that runs underground in Birkenhead and Liverpool centres. We just need to expand what we have, a system Manchester, Sheffield, etc, wanted but could not afford. Notice that all the top cities in the world have underground metro systems. I don't see London, NY, Munich, etc, scrapping the rapid transit metros and going 100% for trams. We should not go backwards. We should spend transport money where it is need most -in expanding Merseyrail in the centres and inner-city districts.

Don't be sucked in by smart tram cabins - a trams is still a tram, still with the inherent negative aspects that made the UK get rid 50 years ago.

[Waterways]

Right WW,
that ran from Moss lake,which was somewhere around Islington,down William Brown st,along Williamson sqr,Whitechapel,through to Paradise st, then into the "pool". The remains of a footbridge over this, were dug up during construction of the Macdonalds building(formerly Horne Bros,etc),which is at the junction of Lord st. :nod:

The Cavern Club, not far from Paradise St, was famous for flooding in the toilets when the tide was in. I hope it was the tide.

Look at Lord St, it runs down to Paradise St, as do all other streets around. Where the water course was.

[wsteve55]

Yeh,
I remember the Cavern well! The longer you stayed,the wetter your kek's got!(in the days of flares:unibrow:)I know it didn't smell like seawater?????

[taffy]

The only photo I recall showing one of the streams was in the small valley alongside Speke Rd where the incinerator plant later tram/ bus depot was sited. I'll see if I can find it.

In Garston you can tell where the streams were by the local topography. The slopes of Speke Rd, St Mary's Rd and Church Rd all meet at the bottom of the valley formed by the stream. This was one reason why the Mona castle pub had to be demolished. Part of the foundations were built on rock and the other on the river bed. Hence the building subsided. The same has happened to a less extent to the old Queen's pub, now the Stables.

If you type Garston into the search box in

http://www.old-maps.co.uk

and select the Lancashire Garston and look at the 1849 map, you can see the route of the streams coming into Garston. You'll recall photographing the old Garston Mill site opposite St Michael's Church. The water mill of course was sited next to the stream which then made its way along the route of Dale St ( ie valley street) to the river Mersey.

Here's the photo of the one branch of the Speke Rd Garston Stream with the incinerator plant in the background. Photo courtesy Gasrton Historical Society

[AngelCake]

This thread has been quite an interesting read. I'm suprised at the amount of secret rivers that run through Liverpool , you'd expect more subsidence.

[fortinian]

Right WW,
that ran from Moss lake,which was somewhere around Islington,down William Brown st,along Williamson sqr,Whitechapel,through to Paradise st, then into the "pool". The remains of a footbridge over this, were dug up during construction of the Macdonalds building(formerly Horne Bros,etc),which is at the junction of Lord st. :nod:

Sorry, you're wrong about the location of the Moss Lake.

The Moss Lake was not near Islington, it was the current site of Crown Street/Abercromby Square. Though it is shown on the map below I believe it is slightly too far south and that the 'Reservoir' was part of the Moss Lake.

I think you might be getting confused with Moss Street which has nothing to do with the Moss Lake.

(shown on this map: http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/1.001/m/perry1768/citycentre.shtm)

Picton in one of his Liverpool Geological Society papers says that the Moss Lake Fields had a seasonal* stream running off them towards London Road/William Brown Street called the 'Styrpul'. This Styrpul would join the stream running into the Lyverpul along Paradsise street.

Interestingly the Styrpul could be Anglo-Saxon in origin, 'Styr' (or Stir) meaning agitated water, ideal for describing a fast flowing seasonal stream.

*by seasonal I mean when it was raining during winter and the Moss Lake overflowed the stream would flow more visibly.

[fortinian]

A selection of pictures from my archive.... to any copyright holders I don't know where they came from (but I imagine some of them are out of copyright by now).

Showing the hills and 'pool' in relation to the castle.