View Full Version : Stanley Dock - What should happen to it
dave_p
09-02-2009, 05:11 PM
I'm starting a project on Stanley dock and have been asked to research what the locals would have happen to stanley dock, what do they want it converting into / if anything at all. Would they like to see appartments, shops, fishing facilities, fish farms, equatic research centre / environm,ent / global warming research facilites / new technology centre, museums...
anything at all, just collecting ideas. Doesnt matter if something has been agreed by the council concerning what will happen to it...i just need ideas from locals...
Any help is appreciated. thanks
wsteve55
09-03-2009, 12:12 AM
I'm starting a project on Stanley dock and have been asked to research what the locals would have happen to stanley dock, what do they want it converting into / if anything at all. Would they like to see appartments, shops, fishing facilities, fish farms, equatic research centre / environm,ent / global warming research facilites / new technology centre, museums...
anything at all, just collecting ideas. Doesnt matter if something has been agreed by the council concerning what will happen to it...i just need ideas from locals...
Any help is appreciated. thanks
Surely there aren't that many locals left? That's why the pub's down there,have closed!? Is this just a procedure!:rolleyes:
dave_p
09-03-2009, 12:47 AM
this is just for a research project, i understand a lot of the locals have moved out of that area, and the docks need re-developing. was just wondering what people would like done with that space, what they would like built there that would benefit liverpool, rather than just another albert dock type of thing...
wsteve55
09-03-2009, 12:59 AM
this is just for a research project, i understand a lot of the locals have moved out of that area, and the docks need re-developing. was just wondering what people would like done with that space, what they would like built there that would benefit liverpool, rather than just another albert dock type of thing...
I understand that there aren't as many people around,in that area,and the ones who are,live in the fairly new estate,nearby,so probably dont care what happens to Stanley dock! The indigenous population,have long departed,one way,or another!
Waterways
09-03-2009, 08:39 AM
I understand that there aren't as many people around,in that area,and the ones who are,live in the fairly new estate,nearby,so probably dont care what happens to Stanley dock! The indigenous population,have long departed,one way,or another!
Few people ever lived that close to the dock. The area should have some sort of attraction - arty or whatever, but no stadium or arena. It needs animation and that means residential flats, bars, shops, etc. Having only residential and no bars or shops makes it sterile. Look at parts of Coburg dock. Unless you live there, there is no need to go.
It needs a Merseyrail station nearby to make it attractive. The rapid-transit will make it a success.
dave_p
09-03-2009, 10:15 PM
thanks for your replies guys,
i visited the dock a few weeks back and its a shame nothing has been done there to liven it up. it needs a new lease of life to get people visit the site as it has so much heritage.
The market in the old factory is still running after all those years and and i'd like any re-generation of that area to keep the market as part of that location.
the railstation nearby seems like a must, but what do you do with all that space. what do you build there. Flats and shop etc will all be required as in most re-developments, but what would you have there that keeps the heriateg alive? what will get the tourists coming and even liverpools residents to kickstart a new era in the dock?
Waterways
09-03-2009, 10:31 PM
thanks for your replies guys,
i visited the dock a few weeks back and its a shame nothing has been done there to liven it up. it needs a new lease of life to get people visit the site as it has so much heritage.
The market in the old factory is still running after all those years and and i'd like any re-generation of that area to keep the market as part of that location.
the railstation nearby seems like a must, but what do you do with all that space. what do you build there. Flats and shop etc will all be required as in most re-developments, but what would you have there that keeps the heriateg alive? what will get the tourists coming and even liverpools residents to kickstart a new era in the dock?
See this:
http://www.liverpoolwiki.org/Liverpool_Waters
Peel, do not own Stanley Dock, but all the others around it. Stanley Dock is in the World Heritage Zone.
dave_p
09-03-2009, 10:33 PM
some ideas that i came up with for the dock and nearby area. What do you guys think of them.
1. A maritime centre / fish farm.
Fish are farmed in a fish farm, some released in to the river to help with the fish population, others are made available to be sold in the market. Fish restaurants (maybe even a floating restaurant), equatic research centre's studying the river and its maintenance, workshops for shools kids, teaching them the importance of the river. The usual flats, shops. maybe some bars...but everything based around the fishing history of liverpool. fishing facilities, boat leasing etc etc.
2. An arts and crafts centre. The history of liverpool being soap making from the rivers weeds, glass art etc. maybe the dock could be converted into a small arts crafts centre where these items are again produced (on a small scale), sold in shops on the dock and the market (for locals and tourists), some bars, restaurant, flats etc. theres so much space in this location, so keeping along the arts theme, maybe there could be workshops to get the local community, school kids, tourists learning about the this trade, even being able to see these items produced before their eyes, the process from start to finish.
3. maybe a centre of research for the future: research into global warming, how it will effect the river and the sea. research into new materials, the whole of the dock area being run on renewable enery, wind power, tidal power, solar energy...an innovative centre showing the way to the rest of the country and europe of it commitment to its river, and surrounding sea.
what do you guys think of these ideas? this is just a research project. i'm interested in what the people of liverpool would like happen to this un-used area
Waterways
09-04-2009, 12:16 AM
Museums and the likes have to be in the centre. There have been attempts to make the dock a centre like of a district like Camden in London.
The market is an attraction and will make the place vibrant on market days.
Do you think a new market hall would suit the area and the market, making it a little more vibrant?
I understand theres not many people there but its important to regenerate the area because of its heritage... or at least I think so... and I'm from the other side of the UK! as a visitor and an architect, I can see a lot can be done here, not a shed load of office blocks but something a little more lively, something that will give people a reason to go to the waters edge... its not a bad view...
Waterways
09-06-2009, 11:00 PM
Do you think a new market hall would suit the area and the market, making it a little more vibrant?
I understand theres not many people there but its important to regenerate the area because of its heritage... or at least I think so... and I'm from the other side of the UK! as a visitor and an architect, I can see a lot can be done here, not a shed load of office blocks but something a little more lively, something that will give people a reason to go to the waters edge... its not a bad view...
The docks need to be vibrant 365 days a year. That entails having rapid-transit Merseyrail run in or adjacent to the dock waters. The area must have residential accommodation and maybe modern talls nearby to increase density. Shops and bars have to be around the waters to attract people. We don't want a sleeping area as at Coburg Dock.
We do not need large attractions like the IKEA looking Kings Dock Arena - people bus in and out, leaving a largely dead district most of the time. Arenas should be on suitable sites with rapid-transit adjacent to shift them in and out. On in-filled dock waters built in the 1700s is not a suitable site.
See:
How not to do it (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/KingsDock.html)
Malc-Downing
09-08-2009, 05:54 PM
I was chatting to a friend at work today about when i went to vist the armoury at leeds. i was chatting away saying how cool the exhibitions and displays and the wonderful views overlooking the river/canal there. also, how it was full of people visiting (judging by accents) from all over.
Then on the news, it was reported that the preston football museum is closing and may go to manchester. looking at each other we thought that a football museum would be amazing in liverpool, but where to put it, then i thought of this thread...
why not have the cafes and bar area on the lower floors, but have a gallery/exhibition area above that not for just football, but all sports.. the area is big enough to house a large collection of memrobillia and it would be a major attraction to add to the city and surrounding area.
it's not too far away from the city center, and other attractions. a large enough car park and park and ride into the center would be a possibility also.
just another silly idea by me :p ... i don't even like sport, just thought it would be cool. what you guys think ? :hug:
scouse smurf
09-08-2009, 06:27 PM
I was chatting to a friend at work today about when i went to vist the armoury at leeds. i was chatting away saying how cool the exhibitions and displays and the wonderful views overlooking the river/canal there. also, how it was full of people visiting (judging by accents) from all over.
Then on the news, it was reported that the preston football museum is closing and may go to manchester. looking at each other we thought that a football museum would be amazing in liverpool, but where to put it, then i thought of this thread...
why not have the cafes and bar area on the lower floors, but have a gallery/exhibition area above that not for just football, but all sports.. the area is big enough to house a large collection of memrobillia and it would be a major attraction to add to the city and surrounding area.
it's not too far away from the city center, and other attractions. a large enough car park and park and ride into the center would be a possibility also.
just another silly idea by me :p ... i don't even like sport, just thought it would be cool. what you guys think ? :hug:
Can't have it here, it's gotta go in the centre of the footballing world. Don't forget, no Merseyside club has ever won the title since footy starting in 1992 :rolleyes:
Spike
09-08-2009, 06:56 PM
Why not have it as a working museum of how times once where? plenty of the history is still there. I think that would be a great thing to do.
Enough of these flats and bars im fed up of them. A lot of peoples ancestors worked here, mine included. keep the history :PDT11
And for gods sake dont knock it down and add any more Lego Land :PDT_Xtremez_42:
scouse smurf
09-08-2009, 07:49 PM
Why not have it as a working museum of how times once where? plenty of the history is still there. I think that would be a great thing to do.
Enough of these flats and bars im fed up of them. A lot of peoples ancestors worked here, mine included. keep the history :PDT11
And for gods sake dont knock it down and add any more Lego Land :PDT_Xtremez_42:
Excellent idea, Spike. But do u really think something like that would last long outside of the city centre ? Personally I don't think it would, unless the city centre expands nearer to it
dave_p
09-08-2009, 10:08 PM
theres been some good ideas suggested on this forum, but i just feel that having something like a museum as the central attraction just isnt enough to liven up this area, maybe as part of the overal masterplan of the area as there'splenty of space.
The heritage market does a good job of getting people to that area week in week out...why not expand that idea. there's not much room for expansion of the current market, so why not establish a dedicated market building, one that offers expansion, provides better services, for both tourists, locals and the traders. maybe a multi strorey market, that incorporates a fish market, sellig fish from the mersey and beyond, creating further jobs...some seafood restaurants,bars....and yes, a museum could also be built within an existing structure keeping the history of this location alive....add to this idea a railway link, good pathways for people coming on foot....what does everyone think?
Howie
09-08-2009, 11:19 PM
It'll become flats, sorry I mean luxury dockside apartments (with a Tesco as the central attraction). :rolleyes:
I think some social housing in the area would be good, perhaps a new market hall also for the heritage market,.. I think with museums, you would only go once or twice a year whether you're local or not.... but something that would draw people in all year round would probably be better.... all the museums etc are doing well around the Albert dock area but we dont' want another one off them surely?
The idea of re-introducing public transport such as the mersey rail would be a great idea as it needs this desperately!
I am training as an architect, and personally, I wouldnt put any high end flats or Tescos on the site! I look at the site with the local community in mind. I wouldnt think about demolishing any of it - the place to me is beautiful... and photographs well...! but to bring more attention to the area and bring more people in, it needs a subtle activity, not a football stadium or a load of clubs/bars, and museums that the locals will get bored of, it has to be something they can be involved in constantly and something that can change and adapt to suit their social needs...as well as a place that people from other cities will want to visit on a regular basis.
But most importantly, it needs some housing. The nearest hoousing estate comes to a halt at the railway arches and people are cut off from this awesome river side view... why not spread it further toward the docks? Forget massive sky scrapers and posh flats, how about some social housing to help the locals on their feet? Does anyone have any faith in the area at all lol? What do you all think? :)
scouse smurf
09-12-2009, 10:10 PM
It's years since I was at the heritage market but when I went it was pretty much like st johns market but with some outdoors.
If it hasn't already a proper farmers market/continental market and things like that, as well as the general stalls would give it something that ppl would travel for... If it's already got these things then it needs to be advertised better than it is.
As for public transport, there's already buses that stop pretty much outside of the place.
What would you do to regenerate the area? :)
pablo42
09-14-2009, 04:49 PM
It would appear that people like to live in these old converted buildings. Probably best to do them up as flats, with a couple of bars there too.
Waterways
09-14-2009, 04:54 PM
It needs some sort of cultural attraction, that attracts people from all over. Obviously bars and cafes, etc.
what would you say to a fish market in the area? One that sells locally sourced fish, say from the estuary, but then breeds fish to replenish the river so as to not effect the ecology? And in this market there would be opportunity to learn how to prepare fish, as well as a fish restaurant on the water... and then possibly boat and angling hire to go out and fish yourself....? There used to be a fish cannery near the site in the late 19th -early 20th century..... and Liverpool was originally a fishing iallge 800 years ago...Could an attraction like this add to the appeal that the heritage market already gives the area? Maybe there could be local produce or a farmers market once the fish are sold in the mornings..... what does everyone think?
:)
wsteve55
10-15-2009, 12:44 AM
Sounds promising,but,do you think there would be sufficient demand? You dont see many fish shops around,now! Though there's a fish counter,in a few supermarkets,they never seem to be very busy!
ItsaZappathing
10-15-2009, 08:18 AM
It sounds good to me.:PDT11
pablo42
10-15-2009, 02:08 PM
what would you say to a fish market in the area? One that sells locally sourced fish, say from the estuary, but then breeds fish to replenish the river so as to not effect the ecology? And in this market there would be opportunity to learn how to prepare fish, as well as a fish restaurant on the water... and then possibly boat and angling hire to go out and fish yourself....? There used to be a fish cannery near the site in the late 19th -early 20th century..... and Liverpool was originally a fishing iallge 800 years ago...Could an attraction like this add to the appeal that the heritage market already gives the area? Maybe there could be local produce or a farmers market once the fish are sold in the mornings..... what does everyone think?
:)
Ha, a big fish market. This is what we want.
pablo42
10-15-2009, 03:17 PM
What do you want there?
It's gotta be something sustainable. I think just to save it, that it probably has to be apartments. It's a little too far out to have anything else there. It could be made into a new John Moores University. Really can't see it being owt else. Maybe council offices.
Sounds promising,but,do you think there would be sufficient demand? You dont see many fish shops around,now! Though there's a fish counter,in a few supermarkets,they never seem to be very busy!
There is no demand there at the minute, as there is'nt anything of the sort there at the moment... at least this proposal would use the water and help with the environment as well as be an addition to the current market... and fish counters in supermarkets are never fresh, nor do they teach you how to cut the fish with skill like they do at Billingsgate Market in London! Is'nt fishing quite popular at the estuary? I think the area could definately do with a new market hall building selling fresh produce. An addition to the heritage market... both new and old...
It's gotta be something sustainable. I think just to save it, that it probably has to be apartments. It's a little too far out to have anything else there. It could be made into a new John Moores University. Really can't see it being owt else. Maybe council offices.
Really? Apartments? But is that something the local community would benefit from? I suppose a scheme like this would be good for investors.... but lets think of this on a holistic, narrative level.... something on the site that incorporates the market.... the site is famous for trade. Hence the current heritage market... forget turning it into another Albert Dock... Liverpool already has one....
pablo42
10-15-2009, 03:25 PM
Really? Apartments? But is that something the local community would benefit from? I suppose a scheme like this would be good for investors.... but lets think of this on a holistic, narrative level.... something on the site that incorporates the market.... the site is famous for trade. Hence the current heritage market... forget turning it into another Albert Dock... Liverpool already has one....
I agree, but like I say, it's gotta be sustainable. Don't think there are enough local people to benefit the local community. What they've done with the other warehouses has been good. Maybe it coulda been done better, but hey, look at it now.
It's gotta be something sustainable. I think just to save it, that it probably has to be apartments. It's a little too far out to have anything else there. It could be made into a new John Moores University. Really can't see it being owt else. Maybe council offices.
Almost forgot - Sustainable in terms of what exactly...? :)
pablo42
10-15-2009, 03:26 PM
Almost forgot - Sustainable in terms of what exactly...? :)
It's gotta be lively and vibrant to be a market. Even the Albert Dock is a bit like a ghost town sometimes.
I agree, but like I say, it's gotta be sustainable. Don't think there are enough local people to benefit the local community. What they've done with the other warehouses has been good. Maybe it coulda been done better, but hey, look at it now.
I see what you mean... I guess the warehouses around stanley dock could be converted for sure, that would be pretty awesome... theyre beautiful buildings. But then on the docks, by Clarence graving docks - do you know this are well? I would wack a market hall there. Nothing massive or fancy but something functional... to do with fresh produce.... imagine the area being regenerated... but then putting a market on the dockside... what would you think of that?
:)
pablo42
10-15-2009, 03:31 PM
I see what you mean... I guess the warehouses around stanley dock could be converted for sure, that would be pretty awesome... theyre beautiful buildings. But then on the docks, by Clarence graving docks - do you know this are well? I would wack a market hall there. Nothing massive or fancy but something functional... to do with fresh produce.... imagine the area being regenerated... but then putting a market on the dockside... what would you think of that?
:)
Just can't seeing getting the throughput in volume through a market that far out of town. I'd love to see it as a Covent Garden of the North, but I think it would die. Reckon the best hope is to save the building as anything really. At present it's a disgrace and a shame.
A shame? no no! Its a magnificent group of buildings.... and its near the current heritage market... a hell of a lot of people go into that market. Sadly only on sundays but imagine if it was everyday.... and imagine you could walk through that market and then through the dock gates.... hire a boat, sme quipment, go fishing.. or just sail.... buy some fresh produce on a market... It could be the covent garden of the north... whats stopping it? Funding of course... but seriously... imagine the possibilities. Why the negativity? I am a trainee architect - I hope this does'nt offend! I live in the Midlands... its pretty grim here but we have nothing like the group of warehouses that Stanley Dock offers. The area photographs very well...
pablo42
10-15-2009, 03:48 PM
A shame? no no! Its a magnificent group of buildings.... and its near the current heritage market... a hell of a lot of people go into that market. Sadly only on sundays but imagine if it was everyday.... and imagine you could walk through that market and then through the dock gates.... hire a boat, sme quipment, go fishing.. or just sail.... buy some fresh produce on a market... It could be the covent garden of the north... whats stopping it? Funding of course... but seriously... imagine the possibilities. Why the negativity? I am a trainee architect - I hope this does'nt offend! I live in the Midlands... its pretty grim here but we have nothing like the group of warehouses that Stanley Dock offers. The area photographs very well...
There's a place not too far from here similar to what you propose, Botany Bay near Chorley. It started out with lots of promise, but the visitors came for a short time. During the week it's quite dead, that's despite coach trips to the area. They do their best to make the journey worthwhile, but it's just not happening. Hate to see Stanley Dock go like that. In a few years, we will look back and say, I wish we'd have saved that building. That sadly is the history of Liverpool. We've already lost too much.
Looks like a good drive away,... but every place is unique...I shall have a think....
pablo42
10-15-2009, 04:04 PM
Looks like a good drive away,... but every place is unique...I shall have a think....
Me too.
Lets remember that with the new canal link, barges will be transiting right past this building through Stanley locks and Dock, maybe something at ground floor level can be incorporated for their use?
pablo42
10-15-2009, 04:47 PM
Lets remember that with the new canal link, barges will be transiting right past this building through Stanley locks and Dock, maybe something at ground floor level can be incorporated for their use?
Will there be that many barges passing through. Do the barge people spend lotsa money. Gotta be able to support itself.
gregs dad
10-15-2009, 06:50 PM
We need to do something with the old lift bridge by there first as Regent Road has been blocked of for a while now putting more traffic onto Great Howard St nothing seems to be happening,
pablo42
10-16-2009, 02:05 AM
We need to do something with the old lift bridge by there first as Regent Road has been blocked of for a while now putting more traffic onto Great Howard St nothing seems to be happening,
Reckon it's been shut over twelve months now hasn't it. I'll lay odds it's left a bit longer and we'll be told that it's too far gone to save. It's gotta be the last bridge of its type in Liverpool hasn't it.
Conflicting reports on another site about a planning application to have it replaced though another says it's still being refurbed.
wsteve55
10-16-2009, 12:45 PM
Reckon it's been shut over twelve months now hasn't it. I'll lay odds it's left a bit longer and we'll be told that it's too far gone to save. It's gotta be the last bridge of its type in Liverpool hasn't it.
The closure was supposed to be for 12/18 months,but there's was no sign of any repair work going on with the bridge,last time I drove down there!(which was a few months ago)
dave_p
10-16-2009, 01:30 PM
does anyone know how to request access to the restriction section of Salisbury dock and the clock tower. i need to do a site study of that area, and do not know how to organise access to the site.
Any help would be really appreciated.
Thanks
A hi-viz jacket and a bit of cheek is all you need :ninja::shock:
pablo42
10-16-2009, 03:16 PM
A hi-viz jacket and a bit of cheek is all you need :ninja::shock:
Bet you aint got the Hi vis jacket...you got the cheek though.
gregs dad
10-16-2009, 07:17 PM
does anyone know how to request access to the restriction section of Salisbury dock and the clock tower. i need to do a site study of that area, and do not know how to organise access to the site.
Any help would be really appreciated.
Thanks
Peel Holdings are the owners but I don`t think you would have much luck there. Some times the Waterloo Dock gate is open which is the entrance to that area ,you could wander in like I used to do,and plead the fifth amendment if anybody stops you.I fished in that area for a number of years
There are a few pics on my flickr site.
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