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fiftyfive
08-22-2009, 01:24 PM
Has anyone any info on this church, ie when it was demolished ?....allan

wsteve55
08-22-2009, 02:02 PM
Has anyone any info on this church, ie when it was demolished ?....allan

It sounds familiar,but do you know whereabout, it actually was?

chez
08-22-2009, 02:03 PM
st philips ceased in 1882 chez.

dazza
11-16-2009, 01:10 AM
St Phillip's Church, Hardman Street, viewed from St Lukes. St. Phillip's was on the same side as the Philharmonic pub.
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/StPhilip_HardmanSt.jpg

wsteve55
11-16-2009, 07:07 PM
Good pic' Darren,
that looks roughly where the jobcentre was,which was demolished not so long ago,(90's?)and it's still vacant land!

Samp
11-16-2009, 07:42 PM
It was higher up the Street than that. WSteve55

It was on the block where the 'Fly in the Loaf' is now.

ItsaZappathing
11-16-2009, 08:09 PM
St Phillip's Church, Hardman Street, viewed from St Lukes. St. Phillip's was on the same side as the Philharmonic pub.
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/StPhilip_HardmanSt.jpg

Good one :PDT_Piratz_26:

wsteve55
11-17-2009, 12:24 AM
It was higher up the Street than that. WSteve55

It was on the block where the 'Fly in the Loaf' is now.

If so, you couldn't have that view from St.Lukes,which is at the bottom of the hill?

knowhowe
11-17-2009, 01:35 AM
Not seen a picture of this old church before and can't find a reference to it in any of my old books. Very interesting though, thanks for posting it.

Doesn't really look finished, does it? Like they got the nave done but never got around to a tower or spire...

The gates and railings are quite reminiscient of St. Luke's across the road.

dazza
11-18-2009, 01:01 AM
If so, you couldn't have that view from St.Lukes,which is at the bottom of the hill?

Sorry the 'view' was not exactly from St Luke's - that was me offering some general bearings to the picture.

Hopefully this will clear it up. See where it says "Rodney Street" in large bold letters on the map. ie:


R O D N E Y

S T R E E T

St Phillip's Church is located directly beneath the letter "E" in 'Rodney'. So that would site it between Baltimore Street, Hardman Street, South Hunter Street [looks like on A-Z]. There's another street parallel to Hardman Street which I wasn't able to read on the map. Interestingly there was a Jewish Synagogue on the opposite side of the road, to the church.


http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/StPhilips_Church_1850.jpg
1850 map. no reference/

wsteve55
11-18-2009, 01:15 AM
Hi Darren,so Samp was right! The "Fly in the Loaf" pub,used to be a general grocery store,with a "by Royal appointment" sign over the door! It then became "Kirklands" wine bar. The street parallel,is Maryland st,I think

dazza
11-18-2009, 01:25 AM
Hi Darren,so Samp was right! The "Fly in the Loaf" pub,used to be a general grocery store,with a "by Royal appointment" sign over the door! It then became "Kirklands" wine bar. The street parallel,is Maryland st,I think
Hi Steve, that sounds about right. Maryland Street also rings a bell.
Cheers
Darren

dazza
11-19-2009, 03:05 PM
Doesn't really look finished, does it? Like they got the nave done but never got around to a tower or spire...
Hi Knowhowe,

King's College Chapel, Cambridge [1446?1531] could have been the inspiration? Also St. Anthony's Church, in Scotland road has a nave, but no tower. I don't think it's that uncommon to see.

gregs dad
11-19-2009, 03:20 PM
Hi Darren,so Samp was right! The "Fly in the Loaf" pub,used to be a general grocery store,with a "by Royal appointment" sign over the door! It then became "Kirklands" wine bar. The street parallel,is Maryland st,I think
The Fly in the Loaf was originally a Kirklands bakery,part of a chain of bakery shops in Liverpool,hence the names Fly in the Loaf and Kirklands bar

fortinian
11-19-2009, 03:21 PM
Hi Knowhowe,

King's College Chapel, Cambridge [1446?1531] could have been the inspiration? Also St. Anthony's Church, in Scotland road has a nave, but no tower. I don't think it's that uncommon to see.

See also St Judes, Hardwick Street.

They are all Gothic Revival (partiuarly Perpendicular) favoured by Thomas Rickman. See also: Holy Trinity Church, Bristol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Trinity_Church,_Lawrence_Hill

dazza
11-19-2009, 03:59 PM
The Fly in the Loaf was originally a Kirklands bakery,part of a chain of bakery shops in Liverpool,hence the names Fly in the Loaf and Kirklands bar

So the plot's history goes from - a Church - to Bakery - to a Bar.

IOW: the breaking of bread; to the making of it...and then having a drink?

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Bernie
11-19-2009, 04:18 PM
Hi Darren,so Samp was right! The "Fly in the Loaf" pub,used to be a general grocery store,with a "by Royal appointment" sign over the door! It then became "Kirklands" wine bar. The street parallel,is Maryland st,I think

I remember it well, the name of the shop was "Kirkland Jennings", my first job in 1954 was on the next block, we used to go there for pies and cakes for lunch. It was a combination bakery, tea shop and store. You could eat there with waitress service. The bakery goods were excellent, about the best you could get.

Ged
11-19-2009, 05:00 PM
So the plot's history goes from - a Church - to Bakery - to a Bar.

IOW: the breaking of bread; to the making of it...and then having a drink?

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

For which you need plenty of dough.

dazza
11-19-2009, 08:48 PM
For which you need plenty of dough.
Ha ha, very true but...
Half a loaf is better than non? :beer:

Norm NZ
11-19-2009, 10:04 PM
So the plot's history goes from - a Church - to Bakery - to a Bar.

IOW: the breaking of bread; to the making of it...and then having a drink?

:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

AHAh! Could be the other way round though, "Having too much to drink, going off your 'loaf'! and ending up in church!!!!:PDT_Aliboronz_11:

dazza
11-19-2009, 10:33 PM
AHAh! Could be the other way round though, "Having too much to drink, going off your 'loaf'! and ending up in church!!!!:PDT_Aliboronz_11:
So that's how it works? :celb (6):

dazza
11-20-2009, 02:37 AM
St. Philip's Church, Hardman St. [1816-1882]

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/StPhilips.jpg



Jonathan Bennison's map of Liverpool [extract] 1835

[Image removed by request of the owner of www.leverpoole.co.uk]

Ged
11-20-2009, 10:40 AM
According to my source, Atlantic House, now Hardman House was built on the site of the church in 1947 the Jewish Synagogue was Chaucers pub in the 1980s.

St Philip's Church was one of three of Cragg's cast-iron churches, and was replaced by St Philip's in Sheil Road (built 1885-90).


.

dazza
11-20-2009, 05:33 PM
Apologies to www.leverpoole.co.uk for publishing the Jonathan Bennison map 1835 image. I'll see if I can photgraph at the LRO, next visit.

I've redone the St. Philip's [site of] map, as Hardman Street was no wider than Pilgram Street, back in 1835. That would place the Jewish Synagogue site patially over the current road.

Samp
11-20-2009, 10:06 PM
The Jewish Synagogue later moved to Hope Place, this in turn closed and the building is now the home of the Unity Theatre.

wsteve55
11-21-2009, 01:36 AM
The Fly in the Loaf was originally a Kirklands bakery,part of a chain of bakery shops in Liverpool,hence the names Fly in the Loaf and Kirklands bar

Thanks GD,I knew it was something to do with food! The "By Royal Appointment" sign,is still there.Wonder why it went?

Waterways
11-21-2009, 01:47 AM
According to my source, Atlantic House, now Hardman House was built on the site of the church in 1947 the Jewish Synagogue was Chaucers pub in the 1980s.


And O'Connors Tavern before that.

knowhowe
11-21-2009, 03:19 AM
Ah, O'Connor's. That was probably the first pub in town I got taken to as a green north-ender. A fat bloke was reciting poetry in there, I suspect it was Adrian Henry. I got offered a pound deal in the bogs but didn't know what it was. Such innocence...

wsteve55
11-21-2009, 01:29 PM
Ah, O'Connor's. That was probably the first pub in town I got taken to as a green north-ender. A fat bloke was reciting poetry in there, I suspect it was Adrian Henry. I got offered a pound deal in the bogs but didn't know what it was. Such innocence...

A great pub' in it's day!:nod:

ItsaZappathing
11-21-2009, 03:42 PM
Ah, O'Connor's. That was probably the first pub in town I got taken to as a green north-ender. A fat bloke was reciting poetry in there, I suspect it was Adrian Henry. I got offered a pound deal in the bogs but didn't know what it was. Such innocence...

OMG:shock: A pound. Cheapskate:PDT10

dazza
11-21-2009, 07:54 PM
A fat bloke was reciting poetry in there, I suspect it was Adrian Henry. I got offered a pound deal in the bogs but didn't know what it was. Such innocence...

for your own private recital perhaps? :unibrow:

Waterways
11-22-2009, 12:26 AM
Ah, O'Connor's. That was probably the first pub in town I got taken to as a green north-ender. A fat bloke was reciting poetry in there, I suspect it was Adrian Henry. I got offered a pound deal in the bogs but didn't know what it was. Such innocence...

As a clued up south-ender I knew exactly what O'Connors Tavern was about.

Great pub!

ChrisGeorge
11-22-2009, 12:44 AM
Ah, O'Connor's. That was probably the first pub in town I got taken to as a green north-ender. A fat bloke was reciting poetry in there, I suspect it was Adrian Henry. I got offered a pound deal in the bogs but didn't know what it was. Such innocence...

That definitely was performance poetry. . . :PDT_Xtremez_42:

petromax
11-24-2009, 09:15 PM
That definitely was performance poetry. . . :PDT_Xtremez_42:
:)

dazza
01-02-2010, 03:32 PM
Hi guys, and Happy New Year 2010!

A few updates on the site of St Phillip's Church, Hardman Street.

St. Philip's Church was not on the site of the Fly in the Loaf pub, as we originally thought. It was on the land next to it, now occupied by the Victorian red bricked building leading up to South Hunter Street. Hopefully this should clear it up a little?

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/StPhilips-1.jpg
Image 1 ^ Google earth view, with St Phillip's high-lighted.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/Stphilips-2.jpg
Image 2 ^ 1848 OS map extract of Hardman Street

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/Stphilips2.jpg
Image 3 ^ 1848 OS map large scale


http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/StPhilip_HardmanSt.jpg
Image 4 ^ St Phillip's Church, Hardman Street

The map above [image 3] confirms that this is the correct image for St Philip's [the original image was unsourced] ie: 8No. buttress walls along the nave, and 2No. at the ends. Also the entrance is in the right place, and the plan is consistant with a tower/ spire-less church.

The image also shows the corner wall edge of what might be the Fly in the Loaf building? It has the same masonry keying as the photographs, although the window's do not correspond....and the lower glazing of the current building is not shown. All of which may have been added/ altered afterwards?


http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/FlyLoaf2.jpg
Image 5 ^ Fly in the Loaf, Hardman Street

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/dal8077/misc/FlyLoaf.jpg
Image 6 ^ Fly in the Loaf, Hardman Street

In image 4 the building being constructed [demolished?] is possibly the current Fly in the Loaf building? It looks like it's sitting further back from the road than the church gates? I assume that when the church was demolished, the developers had built right up to the edge of where the churchyard wall and gates where? And then following on - the ground floor bay windows to the Fly in the Loaf were added later to meet the new neighboring building, and new street line?

The red bricked building shown above is on the site of St Philip's Church.

D.

fortinian
01-02-2010, 05:22 PM
I think you're right about the masonry quoining in number 4 corresponding with the fly in the loaf. Any idea at all when number 4 was drawn?

Tom"O"
01-02-2010, 05:40 PM
that St Philip's church looks to have been slap bang on the site of an old haunt of mine, Stella Maris's 'Atlantic House' last known to be used as student accomodation for John Moores.

dazza
01-02-2010, 05:45 PM
I think you're right about the masonry quoining in number 4 corresponding with the fly in the loaf. Any idea at all when number 4 was drawn?

No sorry, I've been trying to fix the date myself but without success. It lies somewhere between 1816-1882 [life of the church].

Image originally posted here (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Liverpool/StPhilip.shtml)