A DISPUTE has broken out about the reliability of figures that suggest city centre apartment sales have sunk to very low levels.

Figures produced by the Land Registry show the overall level of sales of new flats in Liverpool post codes L1 and L2 in the first three months of 2006 totalled just 34.

The Land Registry figures seem to give credence to long standing concerns that the city centre apartment market is over supplied.

There are also reports that a high proportion of sales that have been completed were to investors rather than owner occupiers, suggesting that many flats lie empty.

However the accuracy of the Land Registry figures is disputed by at least one local agent.

Phil Lawton a director of city centre residential property sales agency Sutton Kersh claimed that his Tithebarn Street branch alone had sold more flats in the same period.

Mr Lawton made his comments during a podcast interview with business editor Bill Gleeson.

Click here (http://videos.icnetwork.co.uk/icliverpool/buspod030706.mp3) to listen to the full podcast on the Daily Post's dedicated business website at www. thebusinessweek.co.uk

Commenting on the Land Registry's figures, Mr Lawton said: "I find that staggering and very difficult to believe. I sold more than double that number from this office alone in the first quarter of this year, so I can't understand where they get their figures from.

"Potentially there could be a problem in the future, but the oversupply situation we have at the moment is no more than a blip in the market.

"The population of the city centre is growing steadily. That's not the problem. The problem is when a large development drops in to the market place it takes several months for that to become fully occupied and at present there are two or three developments within a quarter. It is the supply that peaks."

Evidence that the market is slow can be seen at Albany, the flats development on Old Hall Street in Liverpool city centre. The development consists of 123 flats, of which 70 have been sold. Only ten of the flats have been sold to occupiers. The rest have been bought by investors, according to a spokesman for the company. Developer Albany Assets is currently offering to pay two years mortgage interest for buyers.

An Albany spokesman added: "I do not believe there is a problem with over supply. Its simply that city centre living in Liverpool is still at a fledgling stage.

"At the moment some people don't want to live in the city centre because there are no friends or community around them.

"But that's beginning to change now as it did in Manchester and city centre living is starting to snowball."

billgleeson@dailypost.co.uk

I'd live in city centre, but it's just too darn expensive. If they lowered their prices a little, maybe they'd sell and rent more.

I use to live in Shandon Court on London Road (The big blue building on the corner of Norton St), there are good and bad about living in town.

Pro's:-
Walking distance from Lime St, clubs and bars which is great
Social life is boss

Con's:-
Too noisy, very little for the size of the apartment
Freinds knock round at 2AM 4 nights a week
No community as such
Food costs a bomb as it's impossible for a big supermarket run

I don't think I'd move back to town, unless I won the lottery, of which I'd likely buy a penthouse to stay in after a mad friday night!

Who gives a sh!t. What Liverpool needs is affordable family homes. :mad:

Who gives a sh!t. What Liverpool needs is affordable family homes. :mad:


Exactly! :unibrow:

Liverpool City Council needs to be putting "all this culture money" into surrounding areas, it seems they've wasted a few hundred million on ridicoulous plans for a 4th Grace and all that malarky, what use is that to anyone???

If it was up to me, the regeneration of Toxteth, Kensington and suchlike would be a sounder invesment

Its called 'trickle down economics'. We have to wait for the crumbs from the table. :rolleyes:

The way I look at it, Liverpool has lots of some things, and not enough of other things.

It's got lots and lots of houses, most of them although obviously not all are probably fine. Many of them are low-priced and most are probably what get calls "affordable" these days.

But it's got far far too few jobs, and in particular it's got too few businesses and small businesses.

Lots of houses. Not enough jobs.

The city is poor because it doesn't have enough jobs and business.

But how does the city get more jobs and businesses?

The days of the big relocations are probably long-gone, and now it's all "grow it yourself". In other words, Liverpool needs to have more people living in it who will succeed not just in being self-employed, but in creating jobs for others. And, like London and other successful cities, it needs to attract people to live in it who will do this. Cities rely on people moving to them who have ideas and ambition, and Liverpool needs to be attracting those people, who might currently visit now because of the airport, but will need a lot more incentive to say "Hey, I want to live here".

And how can the city become attractive, to keep people living there, and bring in new people who will create wealth? There must be a lot of ways, but it's vital to make the city centre a nice place to live, exciting, and genuinely attractive. In my opinion this is not the time to make a priority of improving housing generally - you can improve Everton or Netherton or any area you like, improve the houses, but if people are still unemployed, under-employed, basically poor, you have lost. It's time to make the city centre and surrounding areas attractive to newcomers, foreigners, non-scousers, posh people, fakers, posers, pseuds, intellectuals, scientists, fraudsters, writers, designers, but most of all people who have a bit of ambition, get-up-and-go and can create wealth and business and JOBS!

I think it's too dismissive to call regeneration "trickle down". If the city doesn't invest in its centre, and in new attractive residential districts for people who can pay a bit, then it's not going to get the new jobs that are essential. That has to be the priority, it is the only thing Liverpool can now do, if it is to have any chance in the future.

Jobs are more important than houses. That is what Militant could never understand. What point is there in their bungalows if the people in them cannot afford to maintain them or have a decent life? Jobs are more important than anything else. Without jobs, nothing else can be afforded or sustained in the long-term.

What new jobs? Working in the Metquarter or some call centre for minimum wage?

So what you suggest is....get rid of the unemployed , the poor who have lived here for generations :disgust: and bring in the business and the noveau-middle classes...

?

Yes we need jobs - full-time, permanent, well-paid jobs!

Yes we need jobs - full-time, permanent, well-paid jobs!

Oh I agree ... I posted in reply to Liverpolitans ethnic cleansing post :unibrow: ;)

What we should do, is sell off the housing stock to the wealthy 'second homers', they can be the 'weekend Scousers'.


Jobs a good'un

Yes, but let's go back.

Liverpool is a mercantile city that was built on trade and immigration. It has stagnated and declined. The solution is not to invest what is left in a quick fix of improved housing for a few - the solution is to make it a place that people will immigrate to again, and that will create a more mercantile character. Anyone nostalgic for old Liverpool is nostalgic for a business city in which there was a huge mercantile class who generated tens of thousands of jobs - in the old industries, not the new ones.

The days of the big relocations are over. Where are the jobs going to come from? Living in an improved house with a subsidised rent is not the same as having an income, a career, a decent standard of living, having a bit of freedom over what to do in life.

Liverpool needs new businesses. Not just retail (yes the pay is ****), but a whole range of new businesses. Cities like Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh and London do so well because they have a diversified business base, they are not reliant on any single industry and attract lots of small businesses to set-up there.

No class owns a city, and the idea that business people don't belong is monstrous and has nothing to do with the great history or traditions of Liverpool.

It's my opinion: bring back the people who can work hard, take risks, invest and build a business. They may now work in software or computing or design or music or whatever, rather than shipping trades, but they exist, and many of them are mobile. Make the city a magnet for enterprising people.

There's tons of land and houses - the city was built for about double its current population. Bring in the Poles, the Latvians, the Lithuanians, and people from every country on the earth. Liverpudlians alone cannot rebuild the city, no city can regenerate without an infusion of fresh blood and energy.

Oh I agree ... I posted in reply to Liverpolitans ethnic cleansing post :unibrow: ;)

Erm, I am giving some ideas about how to create jobs and eliminate poverty. I don't appreciate personal abuse or being misrepresented like that.

We should strive to breakdown barriers to employment for these poorer poeple in our community.

We go to Gym Tots in Park Rd Sports Centre 2wice a week. The place is chocker full of mums and dads with young kids, cool. Great the city is buzzing, however, me and my wife are usually the only scousers in there.

Wre are the scousers/ liverpudlians? hmm....

Erm, I am giving some ideas about how to create jobs and eliminate poverty. I don't appreciate personal abuse or being misrepresented like that.


Give over mate, I'm geeing you up..

Anyway, your post above.. Liverpool was built on exploitation of the poor..........

Give over mate, I'm geeing you up..

Anyway, your post above.. Liverpool was built on exploitation of the poor..........

And.................where will the jobs come from? If you have a better idea, happy to hear it:)

Oi, keep it friendly peeps, Forum rule numero uno. :celb (23):

Make the city a magnet for enterprising people.

You mean for like those enterprising people in Quiggins who started up businesses like 3 Beat Records etc.

We should strive to breakdown barriers to employment for these poorer poeple in our community.

We go to Gym Tots in Park Rd Sports Centre 2wice a week. The place is chocker full of mums and dads with young kids, cool. Great the city is buzzing, however, me and my wife are usually the only scousers in there.

Wre are the scousers/ liverpudlians? hmm....

That is great news Kev, as it can only mean people are wanting to move back to the city. No-one owns it. Now all we need are more of them, and more of them who want to set up businesses and create jobs.

And.................where will the jobs come from? If you have a better idea, happy to hear it:)

Let me see, we got rid of every industry the city had, we initiated a diaspora of its citizens, we avoided government investment....... and now to save us all, we get the southern middle classes to come up here to buy cheap apartments, and for those citizens that have lived through the rot, we offer them jobs in shops.......... ?

Smashing idea.

Let me see, we got rid of every industry the city had, we initiated a diaspora of its citizens, we avoided government investment....... and now to save us all, we get the southern middle classes to come up here to buy cheap apartments, and for those citizens that have lived through the rot, we offer them jobs in shops.......... ?

Smashing idea.

It might be smashing, but it's not my idea, and it's not answering the big question anyway. Where will the jobs come from? You might not know, and I might not know, but I've got an idea they will come from new people who are enterprising, and who are attracted to a vibrant, attractive city that is making the most of its assets. But I could be wrong.......

So, where do you think the jobs will come from?

That is great news Kev, as it can only mean people are wanting to move back to the city. No-one owns it. Now all we need are more of them, and more of them who want to set up businesses and create jobs.

It is and it isnt. Great news as you've mentioned about people wanting to move back but many ex liverpool residents who left on mass over the years to seek employment cannot move back.

I find it bizzare that in the middle of Park Rd and remember its Park Rd, not Allerton/ Woolton, there's hardly a 'scouser in the house'. On reception maybe.

There won't be any jobs.until we invest in education and opportunties...... These low paid shop jobs, how long before they are taken by the Poles do you think ?

You mean for like those enterprising people in Quiggins who started up businesses like 3 Beat Records etc.

Yes! The city needs 100 more of them, no a thousand times more of that kind of creativity and energy. Not just in retail and music, but in all sectors and industry. While the city council is still in the old-mindset of not treasuring wealth creators, hopefully that can change?

Yes! The city needs 100 more of them, no a thousand times more of that kind of creativity and energy. Not just in retail and music, but in all sectors and industry. While the city council is still in the old-mindset of not treasuring wealth creators, hopefully that can change?


Quiggens was'nt set up to create wealth, was it ?

There won't be any jobs.until we invest in education and opportunties...... These low paid shop jobs, how long before they are taken by the Poles do you think ?

But there is huge investment in education now, and not just school age, but European money has funded countless vocational education and training courses in the city. A lot of the brightest go and don't come back, and you only have to go into any office in the south of England (in fact anywhere really) and you will meet university educated Liverpool people. There is always a little gang of scousers. Other cities manage to hold onto more of their brightest and best, but in Liverpool - while many remain - very many cannot. And with them, go the jobs and opportunities those people sometimes go on to create.

The problem is not supply, as you suggest, but demand - not enough real businesses with good jobs to offer. I agree it's important to keep investing more in education and training, but that isn't enough - it's also important to attract the real businesses and the real jobs.

And how will the city do that? At the moment, a lot of them don't come to Liverpool, and a lot of the people who create businesses wouldn't consider actually living in Liverpool. So I'm genuinely interested in where you think the quality new jobs will come from. Liverpool needs tens of thousands of good jobs, it's an incredible problem. That's why I get startled when people talk as though improving housing is more important.

Quiggens was'nt set up to create wealth, was it ?

Neither was Microsoft or Apple probably. Creators are often not primarily motivated by money, they just have brilliant ideas and ambition and want to do things. But Quiggens has created wealth, and jobs, and businesses.

You can't compare Quiggens an outlet for unemployed Merseyside artisans, to Apple or Microsoft ...

You can't compare Quiggens an outlet for unemployed Merseyside artisans, to Apple or Microsoft ...

I can and did. It's just enterprise on a different scale and a different sector. The same people, if they had been IT nerds, might have created software businesses. Not sure where this is going......but I believe in quitting before I am two steps behind so I will go and have my tea and come back a bit later:)

But there is huge investment in education now, and not just school age, but European money has funded countless vocational education and training courses in the city. A lot of the brightest go and don't come back, and you only have to go into any office in the south of England (in fact anywhere really) and you will meet university educated Liverpool people. There is always a little gang of scousers. Other cities manage to hold onto more of their brightest and best, but in Liverpool - while many remain - very many cannot. And with them, go the jobs and opportunities those people sometimes go on to create.

The problem is not supply, as you suggest, but demand - not enough real businesses with good jobs to offer. I agree it's important to keep investing more in education and training, but that isn't enough - it's also important to attract the real businesses and the real jobs.

And how will the city do that? At the moment, a lot of them don't come to Liverpool, and a lot of the people who create businesses move to Liverpool. I'm genuinely interested in where you think the quality good jobs will come from.



Hehehe, yeah we have, put some half-ar$ed investment in some new education facilities........ Great, smashing, wheres the opportunities for the majority of school leavers in city centre shops ?

We need apprenticeships, not call centres, we need industries like the old Plessey to return, not a new Tesco superstore.

I can and did. It's just enterprise on a different scale and a different sector. The same people, if they had been IT nerds, might have created software businesses. Not sure where this is going......but I believe in quitting before I am two steps behind so I will go and have my tea and come back a bit later:)


Yeah you did........ Its still a pile of sh1te though..

Multi billion dollar corporations compared to a Liverpool sub-culture outlet, housed in a rundown building.. Great comparison.. got any more ?

Rule number 1 again :Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

Supermarkets in deprived areas have provided an avenue into employment for members of the communities........

So, where do you think the jobs will come from?

That is a bloody good question and I don't think any of us have the answer. :( Guess we'll just have to settle for trying to get some better housing! :rolleyes:

What makes me laugh, is Liverpolitan is promoting private enterprise and small business as the cure all for the ills.

Yet we had all that, we did all that, and we lost all that.

Because of Thatchers policies the kids resorted to selling drugs, to piracy... and Liverpolitan is saying give them a job stacking shelves that will solve that problem. Build apartments that local residents will never afford, that'll solve the decline ... sheesh!! Nothing is being done here for Liverpool and its culture.

Welcome to Plazzy town, just don't leave the city centre.

Supermarkets in deprived areas have provided an avenue into employment for members of the communities........

Great, it also provided cheap food for residents on benefits.

Both Liverpolitan & FKoE have valid points. I can agree with points on both sides. :)

Rule number 1 again :Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

Yeah soz Kev... I gets narky sometimes :(

Great, it also provided cheap food for residents on benefits.
every little helps......

every little helps......

Look at it this way,for every new Supermarket,how many local shops close ?

In my experience, the supermarkets that opened in these communities never had a large amount of these little shops to swallow up anyway.

The Morissons in Speke will provide hundreds of jobs for Speke residents. The current parade of vandalised shops is aweful at the mo......

By investing in areas, re-furbishing some of the magnificent Victorian houses of Bootle to the amazing Georgian properties in Toxteth, this will give those living in deprived areas belief and hope.

These are places with genuine scousers who live in these areas and have done for generations, by improving areas such as the examples I've noted will inspire communities to gain qaulifications, create they're own businesses, and it will make the whole city better.

You can't say "there isn't enough people in Liverpool" when it has the 5th biggest population in the UK.

It just needs re-generation. Manchester has done well, in particular Sheffield, historically a working class city of metal factories, now has a high average wage (The Hallam area has more people on £60,000 pa than any area of size than any other northern town).

Liverpool has one of the highest employment rates in the country, it is making strides, but I feel it would be better to invest in people for the City's future as opposed to investing in rubbish new buildings in the city center.

In my experience, the supermarkets that opened in these communities never had a large amount of these little shops to swallow up anyway.

The Morissons in Speke will provide hundreds of jobs for Speke residents. The current parade of vandalised shops is aweful at the mo......

Speke I would say is a special case... rather than the norm.

I see it this way, once we had parades of shops with a grocers a butchers a off licence a news agents etc etc... now we 24hr garages and mini marts, and cctv

I get quite depressed by this. The manufacturing sector has been destroyed, the service sector is too low paid, and the information sector jobs are too small in number. You just get the feeling that without some form of intervention in the economy then the future doesn't look great. :sad:

I get quite depressed by this. The manufacturing sector has been destroyed, the service sector is too low paid, and the information sector jobs are too small in number. You just get the feeling that without some form of intervention in the economy then the future doesn't look great. :sad:

Thats it in a nutshell...

Even as a retail sector, we can't compete with Manchester, compared to it, we are out of the way, off the beaten track.

But the powers that be, see Liverpool as a Tourist destination, and a museum of white washed history..

All we need now is to rebuild New Brighton Tower and a Pleasure beach to be an upmarket Blackpool :( :037:

God help Liverpool post 2008

Thats it in a nutshell...

Even as a retail sector, we can't compete with Manchester, compared to it, we are out of the way, off the beaten track.

But the powers that be, see Liverpool as a Tourist destination, and a museum of white washed history..

All we need now is to rebuild New Brighton Tower and a Pleasure beach to be an upmarket Blackpool :( :037:

God help Liverpool post 2008

OMG - there's something in the air tonite, group hug :hug:. Lets do something positive, can we? or are we doomed?

OMG - there's something in the air tonite, group hug :hug:. Lets do something positive, can we? or are we doomed?


Nah!! we'll be right once the footy season starts :D

Nah!! we'll be right once the footy season starts :D

lol - thats all it is, no footy!

I get quite depressed by this. The manufacturing sector has been destroyed, the service sector is too low paid, and the information sector jobs are too small in number. You just get the feeling that without some form of intervention in the economy then the future doesn't look great. :sad:

We agree about that one - some kind of intervention is necessary. Unfortunately, Government won't bribe and armtwist employers to move into town anymore, or even give Liverpool any decent public sector relocations (Manchester is getting the golden egg of the BBC relocation, Liverpool might get a few low paying clerical jobs out of the Inland Revenue or Home Office if it's lucky). Whoever it is who wants Plessey back - they are never ever coming back, all that is finished. Even successful areas of Germany are struggling to keep far more successful industries going because of lower wage costs in Eastern Europe. But everyone knows that already.

The only interevention I can think of that might possibly work is to get some more home grown businesses going, and create more of a business buzz that attracts new small businesses. New people are required for that, because you need chancers and also a growing population means growing markets. If the city can grow its population by say 50,000, that will create a lot more demand for services, and yet more jobs. It's a virtuous circle, just as the population decimation since the 1960s has half-killed the economy. I'm not suggesting existing local people shouldn't be doing this, and that some are, but setting up a real business that actually makes money and employs people is really hard I think. I've never done it and doubt if I ever will, although I'd like to. I don't think most people can. So bring in those who can. It's what London does, most of the enterprising Londoners setting up new businesses there were not born in London - that is as true now as it was in Elizabethan London.

Thousands of occupations can be done anywhere these days, the people who do them live where they want to live, often where they can network with others. It's vital to give a first class metropolitan quality of life. And in that Liverpool has a huge advantage, being such a beautiful city and also in many ways a happy one where people smile. So I'm actually quite optimistic about Liverpool and its economy, but only because I believe that ideas about housing investment coming first are probably not actually going to happen, and that the city at last has its eye on the prize of becoming a place for people to do business in again.

I'm not a Tory or pro-private enterprise particularly. Personally I'd have kept lots of industries in public hands, and a proper industrial policy. If Britain had supported shipbuilding the way the French and Germans had, we'd still have a big shipyard providing thousands of skilled jobs at Lairds. But we are where we are, the world has moved on and we have to be practical.

Whoever it is who wants Plessey back - they are never ever coming back, all that is finished.

Your kiddin' yeah ?.

Manufacturing jobs have'nt disappeared Polly, they were relocated to developing countries where governments and corporations are more than willing to exploit the worker.

And here, they now exploit the consumer .

MORE than 1,000 apartments in Liverpool city centre are lying empty, the Daily Post can reveal.

Around 10% are still waiting for buyers or tenants, as young professionals shun penthouse suites and studios in the city centre to buy houses in areas like Lark Lane, in Aigburth.

Out of 9,279 flats, 1,117 are empty, according to statistics provided by Liverpool city council and many have been vacant for some time. With some apartments boasting price tags in excess of £900,000, the uptake on such properties has been slow, but even more are planned as Liverpool’s expansion grows. While it was thought thousands of young professionals with money to spend would flock into the city as improvements such as the ACC arena got under way, estate agents have spoken of their fears that supply has far outstripped demand. The startling findings have led

some to fear Liverpool could become a wasteland of empty properties owned by London developers who are unable to rent them out or sell them on. continues (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=over-1%2D000-city-centre-flats-are-lying-empty%26method=full%26objectid=18331105%26siteid=5 0061-name_page.html).....

They're too expensive and don't cater for families,there lies your problem.:disgust:

What I could never understand was where do all these young professionals work?

Manchester?

Rents for these places in the City Centre are sky high, i beleve a lot are in excess of a £1000 a month, now if your on the minimum wage stacking shelves or packing in a factory, your never going to be able to afford these. What do the planners expect building expensive appartments (and not very good ones) in a area were the average wage dosen't succeed £200 a week? To me there targeting rich outsiders, so its not done for Scousers is it.

As its already been pointed out, we need more council homes. There is a huge waiting list, going years, yet the planners and the council are too busy knocking down old buildings and replacing them with small paper thin walled shoeboxes and charging extortionate rents. Can they be really surprised any are empty?

What I could never understand was where do all these young professionals work?

Manchester?

Hahaha

I know of plenty of 'Professional' scousers living in apartments in town. It was bound to happen though....with the investors buying them up leaving alot unlived in. I'm sure its not just confined to Liverpool though.

Rents for these places in the City Centre are sky high, i beleve a lot are in excess of a £1000 a month, now if your on the minimum wage stacking shelves or packing in a factory, your never going to be able to afford these. What do the planners expect building expensive appartments (and not very good ones) in a area were the average wage dosen't succeed £200 a week? To me there targeting rich outsiders, so its not done for Scousers is it.


The decline of Liverpool saw a brain drain of its people. The ambitious left. The city largely became a working class city with far too many with a handout taking mentality - and it showed.

For a city to get ahead it needs a vibrant active middle class. As Liverpool's middle class left, it needs to be brought back - as well as someone else's middle class enticed in as well.

It is obvious that these new apartments are not meant for sink estate dwellers.


As its already been pointed out, we need more council homes. There is a huge waiting list, going years, yet the planners and the council are too busy knocking down old buildings and replacing them with small paper thin walled shoeboxes and charging extortionate rents. Can they be really surprised any are empty?


We don't need new council homes at all - or very few. The city needs new private homes - owner/occupation. Let people be self sufficient and not rely on the state.

As the city becomes wealthier as the new middle class expands the economy, council homes will need to be built, here and there, however hopefully few.

We don't need new council homes at all - or very few. The city needs new private homes - owner/occupation. Let people be self sufficient and not rely on the state.

As the city becomes wealthier as the new middle class expands the economy, council homes will need to be built, here and there, however hopefully few.

There are plenty of council houses in Merseyside. I agree we must build more houses for private sale, 3 bed semi's etc... attracting those with families, young and old. Things have moved forward, though you cannot buy a 3 bed semi, new build for less than 160,000. 4 bed are over 180,000.

5 years ago you could pic up a new build home on a brown field site for 60,000.

How can anyone afford to buy a house on minimum wage? Having a council house dosen't mean your living off the state, if you working your renting it, at an affordable amount. And thats what we need more off. How can anyone better themselves if there living hand to mouth?

How can anyone afford to buy a house on minimum wage? Having a council house dosen't mean your living off the state,


Partially, yes, as the house is subsidised. And I suppose you could say private is as well by tax releif. But with private no cash up front is taken from the tax koffers.


if you working your renting it, at an affordable amount. And thats what we need more off. How can anyone better themselves if there living hand to mouth?

see the Lan Article on the menu at:
http://www.saveliverpooldocks.co.uk

Too many of the flats that are getting built in the city centre are luxury ones or for students!

I'd prefer to live in South Liverpool anyway.

Who gives a sh!t. What Liverpool needs is affordable family homes. :mad:
Well said Howie lad :handclap: ..F**** the Arty farty type out of towner's who would normally turn their noses up at yer..get some decent properties built for the people of Kenny/Granby Etc..

Well said Howie lad :handclap: ..F**** the Arty farty type out of towner's who would normally turn their noses up at yer..get some decent properties built for the people of Kenny/Granby Etc..

Totally agree. The price of property is astronomical and the average wage is low.

Totally agree. The price of property is astronomical and the average wage is low.

Your only spot on girl..This Council could'nt give a toss about the People of Liverpool with its Scandalous Council Tax/Rates etc,Its more interested in that load of Bollocks Capital of Culture ****e..Whats that gonna bring ordinary people living in on Kenny..Dont say much needed funding please cause yer'll just be adding insult to injury..theyre still waiting for the last lot..No doubt there will be plenty of bashes at the Town Hall though Eh..will me and you get in..Not unless your on 1st name terms with Peter Toyne yer wont..

yeah that's right.

... and Anfield is in a dire state as well as Kenny. :disgust:

Liverpolitan. I don't think you can compare the previous influx of immigrants who were genuinely escaping poverty such as the Irish famine or Western Europe en route to the New World and who ended up staying here with the current influx from Eastern Europe at all.

Jobs they are seeking are low paid compared to a local but at least double what they'd normally expect back home. They also cram gangloads into private landlord housing.

Trades which are crying out for trainees and apprenticeships, the likes of which there were plenty in the 70s and 80s such as brickies, plasterers, plumbers, engineers, electricians, mechanics need local youngsters being pushed into these not encouraging immigrants to fill these jobs.

The lower pay results in lower taxes and NIC into the coffers which eventually will see the end of a pension pot for todays 40 year old. A lot of the money is sent back 'home' too so doesn't stay in the local economy.

Yes to entrepeneurs and skilled immigrants and the like but i'd hazard a guess they won't be coming from countries whose own economy and class system is below par with the developed world.

The sheer numbers over here are scary.

I can leave the house here in N.London and whatever direction or street I go down absolutely guarantee I'll be hearing Polish/Russian/E.European being spoken in less than 5/6 minutes.

I imagine that's probably true for 80% of the capital.

Wierd situation and there's no-one at the wheel.

The sheer numbers over here are scary.

I can leave the house here in N.London and whatever direction or street I

go down absolutely guarantee I'll be hearing Polish/Russian/E.European being spoken in less than 5/6 minutes.

I imagine that's probably true for 80%

of the capital.

Wierd situation and there's no-one at the wheel.

What's to be scared of? Why not welcome them? My local shop has been

taken over by a Pole, and a) you now get a proper hello when you go in, unlike the gum-chewing, sulky, innumerate locals who worked in there before b) he

knows the words "thank you" (in English as well!) which the previous English owners did not, c) he sells fresh Polish cakes which come from a Polish bakery -

not some over-packed industrially produced rubbish, d) he puts the change down on the little bowl for Polish customers, and counts it into your hand for

English customers - so it's not as though he's trying to force us to do things some weird and alien way.

Liverpool needs more Poles - tens of

thousands more. Interestingly, I read that Blackpool is trying to entice the East Europeans who come to work there to stay and settle, because they have

found the have talents and skills the economy there needs.

Whilst I have nothing against imported skills, we need to ask why our own are not trained to these levels - where are all the old type apprenticeships, you're not telling me Blackpool or Liverpool don't have people that could and should be doing this. When we're in a full employment situation, only then should we be looking to import skills. I also think that if it's discriminatory to advertise against age, sex or colour, then it certainly should be to bypass locals ahead of immigrants.

Do building firms discriminate against locals?

UP TO 35% of Liverpool’s new city centre apartments are lying empty, as an already flooded property market struggles to attract buyers, housing market experts claimed last night. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpoolecho/news/echonews/tm_headline=35%2D-of-city-centre-flats-are-empty%26method=full%26objectid=18953128%26siteid=5 0061-name_page.html)

Liverpool’s strength used to be its population that lived in the city centre, and we need more houses. I do believe we have reached saturation in terms of catering for young professionals and creatives , and now need to look at creating a stable population with its own identity and sense of community.

I,d take two off their hands for a peppercorn rent:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

UP TO 35% of Liverpool’s new city centre apartments are lying empty, as an already flooded property market struggles to attract buyers, housing market experts claimed last night. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpoolecho/news/echonews/tm_headline=35%2D-of-city-centre-flats-are-empty%26method=full%26objectid=18953128%26siteid=5 0061-name_page.html)

I think occupancy rates at around 70% is pretty average for city centre developments throughout the country. If people are buying to let or to build up a property portfolio and their investment is going down, I'm assuming they knew the risks. I won't be shedding any tears for them.

I agree that more family sized accomodation needs to be built in principle but I'm not sure that families would want to live in the city centre when for the same money or a little bit more they could buy somewhere decent in South Liverpool surrounded by parks and greenery.

I read somewhere that even those people who are currently living in flats in the city centre plan to move out when they start to have a family. Maybe more needs to be done to attract retired people to live in the city centre?

Maybe if there was more there to attract families it would work?

I almost am scared to post in this thread after reading some of the posts lol.

I was brought up on the Falkner Estate off Parliament Street - very dire, and I now live and work in the city centre.

My job isn't well paid and it isn't minimum wage either, but if you look around there is new build property for less than £500 / month which if you share with your partner, isn't that expensive. Especially when you think of what you could gain by living and working the city.


No commuting - saving money!
No parking fees - saving money!
Everything on your doorstep, Church Street, a myriad of restaurants and bars etc
The River - great for evening walks etc
The general city centre buzz


People have the impression that people in the city centre are some sort of different breed out of towners, but nothing could be further from the truth. I know plenty of people who work in clothes shops, students, bar workers who all live in the city centre and there is nothing 'out of town' about them at all.

As regards the empty property - its just a matter of time before these are filled. If you take into account how many apartments have appeared in the last few years, Kings Dock, Manolis Yard on Colquitt Street, London Road, Beetham Tower and all the rest, it can hardly be expected to fill all these straight away, especially when you consider that it wasn't so long ago that Liverpool City Centre was almost a ghost town.

I would love to live out in Aigburth, (I'd get a dog straight away :) ) but I know for a fact I wouldn't be able to afford a car and the travel costs would be expensive too. I wouldn't be able to afford to park my car even if I did have one and there are too many cars on the road anyway so that doesn't bother me.

What Jericho says is true. I don't think the city centre is the best place for bringing up kids, there simply not enough green space etc.

Also, I agree with Liverpolitan on the Polish issue. They should be welcomed to the city. We should by all means try and encourage our own to take apprenticeships and learn the skills that the city needs but what happens when they just don't want to do them or there is a shortage?

I think anyone who complains about 'these foreigners' coming not just Liverpool but the UK, should do a quick google and find out how many people from Liverpool or the UK go abroad each year to find work.

How many times have we heard about the 'falling population of Liverpool' and the 'great exodus out of the city'? Where have all these Scousers gone? Hopefully they have all found new jobs and got new lives, we wouldn't wish any less for them.

Well if Brits and Scousers can be welcomed into other countries / cities then its only fair that we do the same isn't it?

I'm sure as Liverpool's redevelopment becomes more progressed, more people will move in to vacant properties. I can see the point about families, etc, but they won't really want to live in the city centre anyway. These huge blocks of apartments are produced by companies and investors that want the highest return - they're not going to do as well if they build houses in Kirkdale.

Regarding cost of living in the city centre... I've found that it's not vastly different to the suburbs. As far as renting goes, a mate of mine got a spacious part-furnished one-bedroom flat near Met Quarter (seperate bathroom, kitchen, living room, etc) for under £400 a month.

Personally I prefer to live outside of the town centre, as parking is easier, there's less traffic and it's quieter.

Well said Howie lad :handclap: ..F**** the Arty farty type out of towner's who would normally turn their noses up at yer..get some decent properties built for the people of Kenny/Granby Etc..

Most of the family homes around here are being sold to landlords to rent to students when the *******s are getting student flats made In the city centre for them.

Ah well, at least I know I'm superior to anyone who needs a shopping trolley to carry a mutlipack carling even theres 3 of them to carry It.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

I don't know what your problem with students is. They bring a lot of money into this city, which is just as well really.

Property owners and land developers will do what's best for them. If I could afford to, I'd buy some terraced houses in Kensington and rent them to students - at least you'd know they'll pay the rent and not turn the house into a crack den.

I see plenty of houses for sale all round the city, most of which are for families. However, the prices are high (as is the council tax), but this is a nationwide problem. Also, look at all the derelict and abandoned properties, such as on Prescot Road and off Prince's Avenue - these could be redeveloped, but who's going to invest? There's just far more money to be made with inner city developments. If anything, the news article in the Daily Post is good news - if the city market is saturated, investors will have to move to the suburbs to develop.

I want to move south eventually (sorry guys!) and there's just no chance of doing that right now as the situation is even worse there.

Student carrying packs of ale? Lead me to them, some students hold great parties. Called having a life.

Most of the family homes around here are being sold to landlords to rent to students when the *******s are getting student flats made In the city centre for them.

Ah well, at least I know I'm superior to anyone who needs a shopping trolley to carry a mutlipack carling even theres 3 of them to carry It.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:



Good for you Max..Keep blowing yer own trumpet Lad.

I almost am scared to post in this thread after reading some of the posts lol.

I was brought up on the Falkner Estate off Parliament Street - very dire, and I now live and work in the city centre.

My job isn't well paid and it isn't minimum wage either, but if you look around there is new build property for less than £500 / month which if you share with your partner, isn't that expensive. Especially when you think of what you could gain by living and working the city.


No commuting - saving money!
No parking fees - saving money!
Everything on your doorstep, Church Street, a myriad of restaurants and bars etc
The River - great for evening walks etc
The general city centre buzz


People have the impression that people in the city centre are some sort of different breed out of towners, but nothing could be further from the truth. I know plenty of people who work in clothes shops, students, bar workers who all live in the city centre and there is nothing 'out of town' about them at all.

As regards the empty property - its just a matter of time before these are filled. If you take into account how many apartments have appeared in the last few years, Kings Dock, Manolis Yard on Colquitt Street, London Road, Beetham Tower and all the rest, it can hardly be expected to fill all these straight away, especially when you consider that it wasn't so long ago that Liverpool City Centre was almost a ghost town.

I would love to live out in Aigburth, (I'd get a dog straight away :) ) but I know for a fact I wouldn't be able to afford a car and the travel costs would be expensive too. I wouldn't be able to afford to park my car even if I did have one and there are too many cars on the road anyway so that doesn't bother me.

What Jericho says is true. I don't think the city centre is the best place for bringing up kids, there simply not enough green space etc.

Also, I agree with Liverpolitan on the Polish issue. They should be welcomed to the city. We should by all means try and encourage our own to take apprenticeships and learn the skills that the city needs but what happens when they just don't want to do them or there is a shortage?

I think anyone who complains about 'these foreigners' coming not just Liverpool but the UK, should do a quick google and find out how many people from Liverpool or the UK go abroad each year to find work.

How many times have we heard about the 'falling population of Liverpool' and the 'great exodus out of the city'? Where have all these Scousers gone? Hopefully they have all found new jobs and got new lives, we wouldn't wish any less for them.

Well if Brits and Scousers can be welcomed into other countries / cities then its only fair that we do the same isn't it?



Have you seen the Bottom of London Rd lately goldenface..
Its Scum like this that people dont want in this laughing stock of a dumping ground..Sorry..Country..

I Imagine you and others on here haven't got a clue what Im talking about have you..
Just go down London Rd at 10 PM any night and you will see what I mean..
And its not the Hard working Poles I am on about either..

And as for people not wanting to Live in the City Centre...I do..I was brought up in the Scotland Road area and would quite like to stay here.

Not enough green space..Whats that...Something you stuck in a Green shield stamp book.
We had none of that green space thingy either and we grew up in a very happy enviroment I can tell yer..

My Mam felt the same way too but sadly the Council had other plans and moved Her and all the other residents out of a perfectly happy Enviroment to make the Block on St Anne St into Luxury apartments ..
These local people only lived in this area all their lives and their parents and grandparents before them as well..
Walk through this block now at any given time and it is like a ghost town..
No Kids playing out..A once friendly enviroment gone to make way for money people
Strangers who have lived there for the last 10 years or whatever and dont bother with the local community..
Is this how this City is going to End up...Luxury and Security gates everywhere at the expense of Local Community...I really hope not.

Ladies of the night you referring to Gerard? Or the heroin addicts and alkies that hang round TJs and the bus stops?

Ladies of the night you referring to Gerard? Or the heroin addicts and alkies that hang round TJs and the bus stops?

Neither Shapers,

Like a few others on here including Gerard. We were brought up in the same tenement square (I think you might just know which one by now), you'll never get those times again, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way with 'Town' on your doorstep. Council policy then was to move everyone out, funny how it's gone full circle but sad for those disposed at the time. City centre living is back in vogue, what price our tenement block now, only its 170K apartments now instead of flats left to become run down.

Evenin' mucker..

Alright Gerard. Did those cannons rattle your windows yesterday then?

@Gerard

I'm sorry mate but I don't think I have got a clue what you mean, you might have to elaborate on that one.

The times I go London Road is to go to TJ's (bargains!) or to go the pictures, I like London Rd.

There is still family housing in the city centre, very nice little oasis it is too. Have you seen the little community at the bottom of Park lane, behind Duke Street?

You couldn't get more central than that really, at the far end of Paradise Street.

Though, I think that the issue your bringing up is not one thats belongs to Liverpool alone.

If you look at the history of Liverpool, even back when Liverpool had its influx of Irish immigrants after the potato famine the city centre consisted of nothing but the horrendous courts and back to back housing, people uprooted and moved out to the great merchant houses of Falkner Square, Abercormby Square, Canning Area, Woolton Village etc and I don't think they ever moved back - until now.

Its fine to hark back to the good ol' days of the Bullring, Myrtle Gardens, Caryl Gardens, King, Essex, Sussex Gardens East and West, Windsor Gardens to name but a few, but to be honest mate, they weren't ideal places to live.

I remember the last days of Myrtle House and Myrtle Gardens, there are pictures of it on this very forum, it was horrible mate, really really horrible. Nothing to do with the people who lived there for years, but times just change.

That concept just didn't work anymore, people living on top of each other? Pissy smelly staircases and lifts? If the lifts ever worked they probably had no lights in!

What kind of place is that to live in? Really?

If you could speak to anyone who lived in the 1880's in the old Court Housing, off Park Lane and Scotty Road and the tenements behind William Brown Street, then I bet you any money they would say the exact same thing, 'oh the community was great', 'oh our front door was always open', kids playing out all day, but times change don't they?

Have you seen the Bottom of London Rd lately goldenface..
Its Scum like this that people dont want in this laughing stock of a dumping ground..Sorry..Country..

I Imagine you and others on here haven't got a clue what Im talking about have you..
Just go down London Rd at 10 PM any night and you will see what I mean..
And its not the Hard working Poles I am on about either..
.

I am also trying to work this one out. That part of town always looks deserted to me at that time unless a show has just finished at the Empire. It's like a cliffhanger - I'm waiting for the next installment. :)

The history of the city centre has a theme of one community displacing another. We're clearly in the middle of another change. I'm hoping for a bit more integration this time around rather than one community moving out as another one moves in.

"That concept just didn't work anymore, people living on top of each other? Pissy smelly staircases and lifts? If the lifts ever worked they probably had no lights in! "


It worked perfectly well mate in Great Richmond St..and all the lights worked.

I didnt think you had a clue either what was going on on London Rd..

I am also trying to work this one out. That part of town always looks deserted to me at that time unless a show has just finished at the Empire. It's like a cliffhanger - I'm waiting for the next installment. :)



And Im waiting Jericho to see if anyone knows whats going on on London Rd.

Getting good innit :unibrow:

"That concept just didn't work anymore, people living on top of each other? Pissy smelly staircases and lifts? If the lifts ever worked they probably had no lights in! "


It worked perfectly well mate in Great Richmond St..and all the lights worked.

I didnt think you had a clue either what was going on on London Rd..

How about giving us a clue then?

Well I'm completely lost now.

What is going on in London Rd that we do or don't know about? :)

Is the Bearded Lady back again? Whisky Mary? Springheel Jack?

The history of the city centre has a theme of one community displacing another. We're clearly in the middle of another change. I'm hoping for a bit more integration this time around rather than one community moving out as another one moves in.

I think it will always be in a constant state of flux. I don't think it belongs to anyone in particular. If it wasn't for students and tourists it wouldn't be half as busy I reckon.

In the evenings in the city centre, say around 8-9pm mid-week, its quite dead - in a nice way. Going for a walk around town when the shops are closed can be really nice.

[/B]

How about giving us a clue then?

Not just yet..lets see if anyone knows first Eh ?

I don't know, but it's really boring me. Can't be that significant if hardly anybody knows about it.

Im off out for a nice little walk now and to take a few snaps..

Lovely day isnt it...Lol... Byyyee---eeeee...

@snappel

I suppose we will have to work out for ourselves what the scum is at the bottom of London Road.

He can't mean the people who go the Empire Theatre can he? The people who drink in the Lord Duncan? The people in the kebab shop?

I'm flummoxed!

But I'll tell you what, I'm not going down again after 10pm. I don't know what to expect now.

I don't know what's going on in London road so i'm not going to go there (I don't mean i'm not going to go to London road, I just mean i'm not in a position to comment on what's supposed to be going on there)

However, Goldenface. Having lived in Gerard Crescent and Gerard Gardens and with the film Gardens of Stone having now been shown to around 2000 people + I do feel in a position to comment on the old tenement blocks.

Firstly, council policy in the 1980s was to sell of prime real estate so they purposely let these blocks become run down, look at Minster Court and the Bullring now. A flat in Wavertree Gardens (now Abbeygate apartments) was sold in the Daily post for K160 after two weeks advertising . JMU were sold lots of Gerard Gardens land, Hunter Street was widened to 12 lanes of traffic - the road becoming ever more important than people - countless on the Scottie Press site will tell you that they were cannon fodder and moved out to Kirkby, Skem, Speke, Norris Green etc -splitting up communities in the process.

You say two things which strike a nerve.

(1) 'That Concept just didn't work anymore, people living on top of each other'

Can you explain then why billions has been spent collectively on view 146, Freedom Heights, new apartments at Beetham Tower, Leeds Street, London Road, Marybone, Victoria Halls, Hatton Garden to name but a minute few - I can think of 30 more that roll off the tongue down Duke St, Colquitt st way and all the high rise in Sefton Pk, China town tennies etc.....

(2) 'But times change don't they'

Yes they do. Do you think they've changed for the better when it comes to communities? I don't and I know from the reaction at the screenings mentioned above attended by a whole cross section of people from all ages and walks of life that is the general concensus.

I think this topic has been done in part before.

See the tenement thread under housing.

Ah, I see!

So the council run them down on purpose? I often wondered why they became the way they did. They were pictures of neglect in the 80's but I never knew why - I just assumed the council couldn't be bothered with them anymore.

When I said 'that concept', I meant that type of municipal housing. Loads of them were demolished too weren't they? Like Windsor Gardens at the top of Falkner Street, that was knocked down and just an open field was left in its place for years.

I'll have a good read of the thread. Thanks matey!

Some interesting points there Ged, thanks.

Many years ago I lived at Minster Court for a short while looking after someone's flat, and I have to say it was very pleasant, but then again it was mainly full of students, although there were some families there.

Running them down on purpose might not have been the correct phrasology, but perhaps neglect of their duties regarding maintenance might have been better.

It's great that new housing was built but sometimes only 150 houses were built to house what were 400 flats. This is why the 1969 film 'Us and them' (Us being the residents and Them being the council) was made, the 1978 film by the Vauxhall Neighbourhood council called 'Homes not Roads' too and of course the award winning Eldonians group was formed out of a community battling against the council who wanted to split up the Burlington Street tenement residents.

It was not just Windsor Gardens whose site lay dormant for many years. The Four Squares off Soho Street is still a lumpy grasses site fit for no-one after nearly two decades.

Some of the older residents didn't want front and back gardens to manage and the beauty of the old landings was that people had to pass your front door and this would lead to people just standing there, leaning over, jangling whilst watching the world go by. Full of mod cons but not full of memories, more a feeling of isolation for many, especially those who lost old friends to far outlying districts.

It seems like its a never-ending story really doesn't it.

Even now we have communities battling to stay together, like the tenants of the Welsh Streets off Windsor Street.

I guess what it boils down to is people don't like being shoved around for one reason or another, all in the name of progress.

In the 1960s, the original proposals for the 2nd Mersey Road crossing were mooted to be in the south of the city. However, fighting residents in the leafy suburbs with CPO's was cast aside when there was easy fodder half a mile from the Queensway tunnel, known as council tenement residents.

If you see the swathes of approach roads and how much housing was affected for the Kingway tunnel in relation to the discreet Queensway entrance (purposely picked at that location because it would cause the minimum of disruption) you would knw what the protest films are getting at.

ALso all those ill placed walkovers around Byrom street that were obstacles and hurdles for children and the elderly.

The city centre did once have a thriving and stable community, it wasn't always students and tourists, in fact in the 1970s, the councils idea of attracting tourism was to demolish the Cavern.

Thanks for explaining what went on Ged. It makes you stop and think doesn't it. Do you mean to say that there were plans for the tunnel in the south of the city ?? I never knew this.

According to the research I did at the records office, it just says the South of the city but doesn't say where specifically. Of course another hindrance with that is that the Mersey widens at this point. Brian Jacques who narrates in the Homes not Roads protest film indicates that the South end would have been the practical solution. In the opinion of many in the shipping world, Seaforth could have been a great alternative for artics leaving the newer docks as they now have to go up Church road which has damaged house foundations, before heading townwards via Scotland Road towards Kingsway (they are banned from Queensway)

JMU Professor Lewis Lesley who was interviewed for Homes not Roads in 1978 was sought out by Paul, maker of Gardens of Stones and attended our last screening and hailed it as relevant as ever. He announced back then that the inner ring road proposals for the city centre area were a disaster and just last year it was proposed that the Churchill Way flyovers may well be coming down but don't know the latest on this since the tram fiasco.

"He can't mean the people who go the Empire Theatre can he? The people who drink in the Lord Duncan? The people in the kebab shop?"

"He" has got me flummoxed as well..
Wheres the Lord Duncan by the way.

I think I meant the Admiral Duncan Gerard, the pub facing the Odeon.

Do you mean our local, The Lord Warden?

I think I meant the Admiral Duncan Gerard, the pub facing the Odeon.

He must be a relative of yours, Gerard, if his name was Admiral Duncan Gerard. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Excuse the levity, mates. :)

Chris

I think you mean this place goldenface.
The Lord Warden...
My local and full of my friends..
The Chap behind the Bar is My uncles brother..All one big happy family..

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c60/gedfleming/L1060105.jpg

And the Chap on the left is my mate as well..
He is the Manager of the Empire theatre and this shows the Empire Stage..

So its neither of them Im afraid.


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c60/gedfleming/L1000928.jpg

He must be a relative of yours, Gerard, if his name was Admiral Duncan Gerard. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Excuse the levity, mates. :)

Chris

Nice one Rrrrr Chris Lad. :handclap:

THATS the one I'm thinking of. :lol:

Gerard, I can see my old next door neighbour Dom but where's Bobo?

Gerard, I can see my old next door neighbour Dom but where's Bobo?


Took that photo about 3 weeks ago Ged when I went in for a pint with me Dads brother John.
Sneaked in and had a little blimp first :ninja: to make sure Bobo had gone home.. :ninja:


This one's for you goldenface..
TJ'S....SALE NOW ON....SALE NOW ON....SALE NOW ON....
Hurry up girl !!


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c60/gedfleming/L1060315.jpg

All that gear above the owl girl doesn't look too safe does it !!

It seems like its a never-ending story really doesn't it.

Even now we have communities battling to stay together, like the tenants of the Welsh Streets off Windsor Street.

I guess what it boils down to is people don't like being shoved around for one reason or another, all in the name of progress.

I know from personal experiance of the Gerard Gardens area that it was a case of 'town planners' deciding what THEY thought was good for the community. e.g. 'wouldn't it be great to get those people out of the slums tenements and into new housing'. On paper it looks a very good proposition, but the residents were never canvessed for THEIR opinion. The vacant land facing Gerard Gardens was ideal for new family homes, but that didn't stop the council ulitising some of the existing housing stock for many residents (couples/ widows etc) who wanted to stay in the flats. The majority of the new properties were build on land outside of the Gerard Gardens footprint, which now accommodates a very small number of new houses in Gerard Street.

The development could have been a 'win win' with the right mix of old and new housing. On a car, would you replace your whole exhaust if just the back box is gone??

Council tennents were always treated like cannon fodder, peppered across the four corners of Liverpool (and beyond) in the name of progress.

How could a copy of "Homes Not Roads" be acquired?