View Full Version : Liverpool - Manchester Electrified Within Four Years

07-22-2009, 10:42 PM
Via Newton-le-Willows.

Announced officially tomorrow.

07-23-2009, 04:44 AM
Via Newton-le-Willows.
Announced officially tomorrow.
Let's hope it extends also to Bootle.

07-23-2009, 05:59 AM
Let's hope it extends also to Bootle.

Do you mean the Canada Dock Branch Line to be electrified? It appears that line may be on Merseyrail because of the Liverpool FC stadium and no Manchester trains would go to Bootle. Is there a need for a Manchester to Bootle train? Running on Merseyrail tracks?

About time the line was made faster. It is slower now than in Victorian times. Also the frequency must be better. If Central station was branched into the Wapping tunnel, Manchester trains could reach Central station on Merseyrail lines, and go right into the Wirral. A Manchester to New Brighton Line could be run via Central and Birkenhead. But metro is metro is a separate thing and should not mix with inner-city trains.

The important bit is an electrified line into John Lennon airport. Liverpool to Manchester via Widnes and Warrington needs electrifying at the same time. It is overcrowded. It needs running into JLA. JLA needs a direct connection from both cities.

07-23-2009, 09:32 AM
The Liverpool to Manchester line ? the world?s first intercity railway, a remarkable feat of early Victorian engineering on which Stephenson?s Rocket triumphed in the Rainhill locomotive trials of 1829 ? is another key route, and its electrification over the next four years will also make it possible to run through-electric trains from Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh.

It also means Liverpool can run through-electric trains from Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh as well. But as usual they always miss Liverpool out.

An electric train emits around a third less carbon per passenger mile than a diesel train, and less than half as much as a private car and a quarter as much as a short-haul plane. Rail is a small proportion of total transport and, therefore, of transport emissions, but its capacity to reduce overall emissions is significant if we pursue a relentless policy of both electrification and expansion, including high-speed rail.

The passenger and operational benefits of electrification are immense. Electric trains are far quieter, more reliable, less polluting and cheaper to buy and maintain than diesel trains, and this difference is increasing over time. These main-line electrifications will pay for themselves over the medium term in reduced train and track running, leasing and maintenance costs.

By using supercapacitors to reclaim braking energy the efficiency is even greater and less CO2 emitted. The supercapacitors can be on the trackside.


How Merseyside can greatly benefit:

It does make sense to put overhead wires on the Canada Dock Branch Line, so electric freight trains from Liverpool Docks can run on the West Coat Main Line overnight.
Using dual-voltage pickup trains The Canada Dock Branch line can be integrated into Merseyrail serving the New Liverpool FC stadium, and stations along the way to Bootle. Anfield, Tubrook, etc.
Lime St mainline to Bootle is possible, under Merseyrail.
Lime St mainline to South Parkway via Mossley Hill is possible, under Merseyrail.
Lime St mainline to St Helens/Wigan is possible under Merseyrail once the Manchester line is electrified to that point.

So, putting wires over the tracks on the Canada Dock Branch should be the first section complete, and it is being done ASAP they say. Then the section from Liverpool to St. Helens to get this section running up on Merseyrail electrics. In 2.5 years Merseyrail could be well expanded.

Branching the Waterloo Tunnel into the Northern Line will make Merseyrail sing, as Edge Hill to the Northern Line is then possible. That means St. Helens trains can get to the city centre, as can even a dual-voltage Manchester train if need be go into Central station. I doubt the Manchester train would go into Central though.

Once complete a service from the centre of Manchester can go to South Parkway for John Lennon airport. All by electrification of the Manchester Line and the Canada Dock Branch Line. All looks good, but Liverpool should insist that the Liverpool section is done first to get all stations to St. Helens onto Merseyrail and also the Canada Dock Branch Line section incorporated to get that onto Merseyrail - all done at the same time. Manchester does not have a metro so Liverpool should be the first section complete because of greater public benefits.


"China is experimenting with a new form of electric bus (capabus) that runs without powerlines using power stored in large onboard electric double-layer capacitors, which are quickly recharged whenever the electric bus stops at any bus stop (under so-called electric umbrellas), and fully charged in the terminus. A few prototypes were being tested in Shanghai in early 2005. In 2006, two commercial bus routes began to use electric double-layer capacitor buses; one of them is route 11 in Shanghai.

In 2001 and 2002, VAG, the public transport operator in Nuremberg, Germany tested a hybrid bus which uses a diesel-electric drive system with electric double-layer capacitors.

Since 2003 Mannheim Stadtbahn in Mannheim, Germany has operated an LRV (light-rail vehicle) which uses electric double-layer capacitors to store braking energy."

Electric double-layer capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor)

These supercapacitors are now so advanced they are claimed to replace a battery set and used for all electric cars reaching 400 miles range - we shall see.

07-23-2009, 02:16 PM
All looks good, but Liverpool should insist that the Liverpool section is done first to get all stations to St. Helens onto ...
Sadly the plan is otherwise

The existing TransPennine Express services between Manchester Airport
and Glasgow/Edinburgh are operated by diesel trains, running under the
overhead wires for more than 85% of their journey. Completion of the first
phase of electrification, between Manchester and Newton-le-Willows, will
allow through-train electric operation between Manchester [airport] and Scotland via the West Coast main line.


The best we can hope for is a non-repeat of history in which the later phase (Edge Hill to Earlestown) is cancelled due to overspend in the earlier phase. As happened around 45 years ago.

07-23-2009, 03:24 PM
From the pdf:
Electrification Document (http://collections.europarchive.org/tna/20100408232230/http:/www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/rail-electrification.pdf)


70. Electrification of this route will offer electric haulage options for freight.
There will be an alternative route to Liverpool docks for electrically-operated
freight trains, and better opportunities of electrified access to the proposed
freight terminal at Parkside near Newton-le-Willows.

Alternative route? The existing Canada Dock Branch is diesel. There is no other line to Liverpool docks, unless a branch off the Canada Dock Branch line is planned. Either way, this clearly means the Canada Dock Branch Line is to be electrified and that means using dual-voltage light-rail trains to get it onto Merseyrail.

The Liverpool end clearly needs completing first as the container terminal needs the volume and the flexibility of the electric WCML. Also a new coal fueled powered station is earmarked for the Mersey Estuary, so coal imports will be greater to supply the new and existing Fidders Ferry stations.

Many other lines can be brought onto Merseyrail using dual-voltage trains, such as to St. Helens or Wigan and the line to South Parkway via Mossley Hill. Sefton Park station at Smithdown Rd can then be opened, as can Wavertree Business Park station put onto Meseyrail.

Knowing Liverpool's luck they will pull the rug when the Manchester section reaches the WCML.