In that old battle of the wills between young people and their keepers, the young have found a new weapon that could change the balance of power on the cellphone front: a ring tone that many adults cannot hear.

In settings where cellphone use is forbidden — in class, for example — it is perfect for signaling the arrival of a text message without being detected by an elder of the species.

"When I heard about it I didn't believe it at first," said Donna Lewis, a technology teacher at the Trinity School in Manhattan. "But one of the kids gave me a copy, and I sent it to a colleague. She played it for her first graders. All of them could hear it, and neither she nor I could."

The technology, which relies on the fact that most adults gradually lose the ability to hear high-pitched sounds, was developed in Britain but has only recently spread to America — by Internet, of course.

The cellphone ring tone is an offshoot of an invention called the Mosquito, developed last year by a Welsh security company to annoy teenagers and gratify adults, not the other way around.

It was marketed as an ultrasonic teenager repellent, an ear-splitting 17-kilohertz buzzer designed to help shopkeepers disperse young people loitering in front of their stores while leaving adults unaffected.

The principle behind it is a biological reality that hearing experts refer to as presbycusis, or aging ear.

While most human communication takes place in a frequency range between 200 and 8,000 hertz (a hertz being the scientific unit of frequency equal to one cycle per second), most adults' ability to hear frequencies higher than that begins to deteriorate in early middle age.

But in a bit of techno-jujitsu, someone — a person unknown at this time, but probably not someone with presbycusis — realized that the Mosquito, which uses this common adult abnormality to adults' advantage, could be turned against them. The Mosquito noise was reinvented as a ring tone!

Listen (?) to it here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/audio/mosquito_sound.mp3)

Compound Security, the company behind the Mosquito has decided to start selling a ring tone of their own. It is called Mosquitotone, and it is now advertised as "the authentic Mosquito ring tone".

New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/12/technology/12ring.html?_r=2&th=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&emc=th&adxnnlx=1150215304-ySWYvSbCsXNkl9Lh4aav6Q)

Listen (?) to it here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/audio/mosquito_sound.mp3)

(http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/12/technology/12ring.html?_r=2&th=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&emc=th&adxnnlx=1150215304-ySWYvSbCsXNkl9Lh4aav6Q)

Nope, cannot hear a thing.

Gawd, I feel old! :( :(

Can't hear it but can see it on the Audio Analyzer. :cool:

Can't hear it but can see it on the Audio Analyzer. :cool:

Its amazing :shock:

My local paper shop has one of these, great it is. Whereas you had to barge through small groups of hoodies on the door they are nowhere to be seen because if anybody starts hanging about outside he simply switches the device on and they do one. But now these campagners come along (no doubt someone who doesnt live in an area affected by youth disorder) calling for their bans.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/breaking-news/tm_method=full&objectid=20465406&siteid=50061-name_page.html

My local paper shop has one of these, great it is. Whereas you had to barge through small groups of hoodies on the door they are nowhere to be seen because if anybody starts hanging about outside he simply switches the device on and they do one. But now these campagners come along (no doubt someone who doesnt live in an area affected by youth disorder) calling for their bans.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/breaking-news/tm_method=full&objectid=20465406&siteid=50061-name_page.html

These doo-gooders need locking up, they have contributed significantly to the downfall in our society.

Totally agree - there's always some bleeding heart bleeting on about liberty who never has to live in the misery that some old folk do. What about their rights?!

The Government or local councils should give these devices out for free to any business wanting them-they're a great concept!

Dave.

Why don't we shoot all children at birth if they're going to grow up to hang about in groups, and annoy us?
We don't because they don't.

I don't agree with anything that affects ALL young people in the way these things do.

If we had a device that did this to dogs, the country would be up in arms.
Thank God, it looks like common sense is going to win in this case.

The thing is though Philip, it doesn't affect ALL kids as the vast majority of them are where they should/could be - at home, at sports centres, the baths, karate or boxing club, at football practice, in their mates house etc etc take your pick.

Bored and idle kids hanging around offies (why offies - the alcohol link maybe) will make their own pleasures and that usually involves anti social and illegal behaviour like setting post boxes on fire, damaging phone boxes or bus shelters, hoax emergency calls, stoning buses - we've all seen the aftermath.

It's no great mystery that if you were the lone cashier at one of these shops, you would feel uneasy at faceless hoodies which must be intimidating even if they are up to nothing. It used to be called loitering with intent, moving them on is nothing more than we used to get in the 1970s on the rare occassion we'd stop in one place for more than 10 minutes.

I know there's a problem.
It's not new, either.
But this is not the answer.
Don't good children pop to the shops 'on messages'?

What if this device afffected everybody, no matter what their age?

Personally, I prefer dogs to children, but in this case, this 'torture' is wrong.

This device is going to cause even more problems than it solves.
Are the young people who it affects going to just turn round and walk away?
Not if they're half as 'bad' as we are led to believe.

wow you guys have big problems there, we don't get anything like this whatsoever, what are you doing wrong?

i think these deterents are a great idea, but give the shop a switch as SteH says his shopkeeper has, that way it can be controlled. Although i know shops who actually allow these 'lovely children' access into the shop to roll joints etc. I stopped using these shops because of it.

Good children popping into shops, buying something and then getting off home or to any of those lists of 'nice' things I mentioned wouldn't be targetted with this device though would they?


The problem is greed Shoney.

Ever since off licences sprung up on every corner and supermarkets were allowed to sell ale 24/7 and nightclubs open till 6am - there is a get drunk as quick as possible culture and a feeling that kids haven't enjoyed a night out unless they're paralitic and doing something outrageous. Even the ladettes and hen nights you see on programmes such as boozy Britain with flashers and teenages spewing up all over the place and comatose on the ground with their pants around their ankles. You only have to drive through town in the early hours of the weekend like I do to pick my girls up to see what's going on, to say it isn't is saying my eyes are playing up and to fudge the issue.

Good children popping into shops, buying something and then getting off home or to any of those lists of 'nice' things I mentioned wouldn't be targetted with this device though would they?


The problem is greed Shoney.

Ever since off licences sprung up on every corner and supermarkets were allowed to sell ale 24/7 and nightclubs open till 6am - there is a get drunk as quick as possible culture and a feeling that kids haven't enjoyed a night out unless they're paralitic and doing something outrageous. Even the ladettes and hen nights you see on programmes such as boozy Britain with flashers and teenages spewing up all over the place and comatose on the ground with their pants around their ankles. You only have to drive through town in the early hours of the weekend like I do to pick my girls up to see what's going on, to say it isn't is saying my eyes are playing up and to fudge the issue.

not saying we don't have a booze culture with teens here at all we do, however they don't sting the shops etc... ( why would you burn the hand that feeds you ) they get the booze, somehow as we have strict under18 laws , take it somewhere else and get bladdered

not saying we don't have a booze culture with teens here at all we do, however they don't sting the shops etc... ( why would you burn the hand that feeds you ) they get the booze, somehow as we have strict under18 laws , take it somewhere else and get bladdered

And that's exactly what happens in Park Road.

Ged.
I'm repeating myself by saying there is a problem, but until this device learns to differentiate between the good and the bad, it shouldn't be allowed.
If a child of mine was subjected to this noise, I'd sue!

Don't parents these days accept any responsibilty for their children?

I agree, it should start with the parenting.

But at 7pm do we have curfews, how about the ones I see in Bootle and Kirkdale on a sat or sun afternoon, possibly even weekday afternoons but i'm in work so I don't know.

I'm at a risk of repeating myself that this alarm isn't set off willy nilly for someone doing their regular shopping, it's clearly to dispurse unruly mobs that congregate in an intimidating manner, albeit to somewhere else. I don't know if you'd be allow to sue someone using something legal on their own premises?

How do parents chastise their children these days, do they get a fine or jail for not keeping their kids in check, would the kids not just laugh at that, it wouldn't bother them. Some people shouldn't be allowed to be parents.

Yes, I do know there's an on-off switch.
If the youths are just going to peacefully walk away, then how bad are they?
It's more likely they will plan revenge.
(They have to prove they're 'The scum of the earth', don't they?).

I'm logging off now for the rest of the day.

Yes, you're probably right about the revenge. Have a nice day, speak later.

Any teen with a bit of self respect and a good upbringing wouldn't hang around an offee anyway.

Yes, I do know there's an on-off switch.
If the youths are just going to peacefully walk away, then how bad are they?
It's more likely they will plan revenge.
(They have to prove they're 'The scum of the earth', don't they?).

I'm logging off now for the rest of the day.


In many cases the teens simply dont know what or where the device is they just hear a high pitched sound, think "what the f**k's that and get off". Its true some will seek revenge espcecially now their use is getting much more publicised, thats unavoidable but they will seek revenge at any other things that get in their way such as shopkeepers refusing to sell them ciggies, having cctv trained on them or whatever other things business owners do to protect their interests. Many youths who hang about shops arent necessarily that hard and wouldnt seek revenge, they dont actually think they are doing anything wrong but its about perception. To them they are having a laugh and sitting off, to a pensioner they are an intimidating presence with no respect who stop them going in and spending money. Thats why theres a need for a shop owner to need a deterrent, the devices are not harmful so if they are switched on/off as and when necessary I dont see a problem.

God, I worry for my 12 year old (6ft lad). Most people want to belong. I was one of 9 so a couple of us together constituted a gang. AND we used to go the offie together, for a bottle of Schofields and some Smiths crisps. We were like moths, attracted to the lights!!! Most kids were and still are and not all are bad.

Most people simply see kids and feel uneasy but its a difficult one. I have served ASBOs on kids and not one of them had horns or a great big sign saying "I am a moron" who will harass, spit or abuse you (or worse)" on their hoodies. Not all gangs or bad but if I was serving in Thresher and 6 lads were messing about, yes, I would want a means of dispersing them.

I ok with the thing being available as long as its used responsibly. I always remember working with a couple of youth charities in Everton who asked the local youths what they wanted their group to be called and you know what they voted for? "We all live here" and thats what the project was called. Yes there are too sides to it.

I have an open mind about the "mosquito",if a shopkeeper is suffering from gangs behaving badly then he should have some recourse to seeking some form of deterrence. A shop in the midlands had great success with this problem by playing Mozart,Bach and Schubert on speakers that were outside the store,the kids found it was'nt cool to hang around listening to old peoples music.
As a lot of you have already said ,these children are the problem that has been caused by poor parenting,there are no moral boundaries any more.
By abdicating responsibility for their offspring all of society is made to suffer.
I don't know the answer,I'm not sure if I even know the question any more!!
BrianD

How long before we see the makers of "Hooded casual clothing" bring out Mosquito repellent hoods, lined with tin foil?
And to think years ago when people claimed to be getting harrassed by govt Microwave devices, we labelled them nuts!
This technology must be used wisely before microwave weapons become available for every tom dick or harry. Surely the use of this technology in a public place is illegal, within or upon the land of a persons property fair enough. I don't like to see gangs of youths outside shops, and i wish i knew of a way to solve this problem, but i can see this method doing more harm than good.
Don't mind if they make one to get rid of smackheads who hassle ye for a ciggy and 10p for the phone though.:unibrow:

sell them a licence to use it and make then fully accountable for the use and misuse carries a big fine, thats what is done with most things that people don't really want

One hassled me for 10p for a cup of tea once, 'I gave him 20p and said get me one too will yer'.

lol, Has anyone else had the pleasure of actually hearing one of these devices?

I did today whilst getting money from the cash machine in Garston Village, outside sommerfield.

I heard something switch on (they must by movement sensitive) and the noise pierced my ears!

It was weird!

I'll take it as a compliment :PDT10

lol, Has anyone else had the pleasure of actually hearing one of these devices?

I did today whilst getting money from the cash machine in Garston Village, outside sommerfield.

I heard something switch on (they must by movement sensitive) and the noise pierced my ears!

It was weird!

I'll take it as a compliment :PDT10

You should be glad mate your bodies staying so young they are only supposed to be heard by uner 20s, I have been to places where I know for a fact they are on but heard nothing.